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Jotari

Fire Emblem Protagonist Tournament Day 32: Finale

Vote for your preferred semi final matches  

3 members have voted

  1. 1. Vote for your preferred semi final matches

    • Tibarn vs Byleth
    • Tibarn vs Claude
      0
    • Tibarn vs Dimitri
    • Claude vs Byleth
    • Claude vs Dimitri
    • Dimitri vs Byleth
      0


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2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

That's kind of the catch 22. If combat arts aren't allowed, but proc skills are, then that's unfair to the combat arts users who are in games without proc skills. And if either of them use it, it's unfair to the units from games without skills at all. On the other hand, Aether is a defining part of Ike as a unit and skills are vitally important in the games with them. So I think I'll allow both and just let the Elibe and Archanean characters suffer for it.

Would you count skills that those characters get in games they're brought in like Awakening spotpass?

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Well, I voted for Hector just cuz I'm rooting for him. It sounds like it will be a wild battle though, and I like Tibarn too so I won't be devastated if he wins (but it will be bad to see Hector losing right in his first round). 

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10 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Would you count skills that those characters get in games they're brought in like Awakening spotpass?

I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean should Hector get skills that his Einherjar version has in Awakening, then no, as that's not Blazing Blade Hector any more than Binding Blade Hector is Hector.

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1 minute ago, Jotari said:

I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean should Hector get skills that his Einherjar version has in Awakening, then no, as that's not Blazing Blade Hector any more than Binding Blade Hector is Hector.

Thank you for clarifying.

I'd also like to ask how you get the functions working in the calculator.

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27 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Thank you for clarifying.

I'd also like to ask how you get the functions working in the calculator.

You mean how the calculator works itself, or you want to try and play around with it on your own? If it's the latter then you'll have to make a copy using the file menu, as I think the link I use is read only. If it's how the calculator physically works in google sheets, then it's a complex set of cross referencing data between pages and adding basic coding scripts for the buttons.

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Just now, Jotari said:

You mean how the calculator works itself, or you want to try and play around with it on your own? If it's the latter then you'll have to make a copy using the file menu, as I think the link I use is read only. If it's how the calculator physically works in google sheets, then it's a complex set of cross referencing data between pages and adding basic coding scripts for the buttons.

Yeah, I did download, but the functions look to have bricked and it'll take a lot of tweaking to figure out, I'll ask about it later.

Another thought occurs. I assume we're discounting equipment unless it can be strongly tied to the unit, correct?

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7 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Yeah, I did download, but the functions look to have bricked and it'll take a lot of tweaking to figure out, I'll ask about it later.

The scripts for the buttons probably didn't copy over. See if you can view them from the original, if not PM me and I'll send you the code (you might have to attach them to the buttons manually though, which would be a chore).

Quote

Another thought occurs. I assume we're discounting equipment unless it can be strongly tied to the unit, correct?

Yes. This means the only units with defensive equipment are Seteth's Ochain Shield and New Mystery Marth's Shield of Seals. I was considering giving Alm Berkut's memento ring since he gets that in the story, but it would kind of violate the one item per character rule Shadows of Valentia has. If anyone can remember Sigurd or Seliph specifically getting given an item in the story (and not just obtaining it by killing some random boss) then they could be eligible.

Edited by Jotari

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The people have guessed Tibarn would be the victor, but can the might talons of the Hawk King pierce the armoured lord of Ostia? Let's find out.

ROUND 1: No weapons, no skills

Spoiler

 

Hector 58 30 0 25 22 15 33 13 57.5 40.5 20 15 5.424855343
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con Move
Tibarn (T) 64 31 5 34 31 22 25 12 79 57.5 28 43.2 9.262155912

 

 

 

Both units have 100% hit chance. Tibarn has a 13% crit chance.

Tibarn (T) struck dealing 0 damage!
Hector counter attacks dealing 5 damage!
Tibarn (T) attacks again dealing 0 damage!
Tibarn (T) HP = 59
Hector HP = 58

 

 

 

Okay...so...Yeah, Tibarn can't deal damage at all. I guess giving units a 0mt 100% hit weapon for this round really favours tanky lords. Maybe a weapon that's the standard iron sword power would be fairer? In which case Tibarn would likely come out on top, since he's doubling Hector, so he only needs to deal 3 damage to out pace Hector. But that's a discussion for next time, for no I'm going to call this one for Hector rather than simulating ten rounds of zero damage. If in the future I have two lords that literally can't damage each other, then I'll consider changing the parameters of the no damage round.

ROUND 2: Weapons, no skills

Spoiler

Physical Armads (Blazing) 18         5   85     18  
Hector 58 30 0 25 22 15 33 13 57.5 40.5 20 15 5.424855343
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con Move
Tibarn (T) 64 31 5 34 31 22 25 12 79 57.5 28 43.2 9.262155912
Physical Great Talon 20             100     1  

Tibarn has 100% hit chance and 13% crit chance, Hector has 85% hit chance

 

Tibarn (T) struck dealing 13 damage!
Hector counter attacks dealing 23 damage!
Tibarn (T) attacks again dealing 13 damage!
Tibarn (T) HP = 41
Hector HP = 32
Hector struck dealing 23 damage!
Tibarn (T) counter attacks dealing 13 damage!
Tibarn (T) attacks again dealing 13 damage!
Hector HP = 6
Tibarn (T) HP = 18
Tibarn (T) struck dealing 13 damage!
 
 
Tibarn (T) HP = 18
Hector is dead.

It was actually closer than expected. If Hector just had one more chance to attack, and managed to hit, he would have won. Unfortunately Tibarn out prioritizes him with superior movement. If Hector chose to not attack and enemy phased Tibarn twice then he could actually win on his second player phase, but unfortunately if he's smart enough to do that, Tibarn is also smart enough to never attack leaving a draw. So finishing a turn without doing anything is unallowed.

ROUND 3: Weapons and skills

Spoiler

Physical Armads (Blazing) 18         5   85     18  
Hector 58 30 0 25 22 15 33 13 57.5 40.5 20 15 5.424855343
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con Move
Tibarn (T) 64 31 5 34 31 22 25 12 79 57.5 28 43.2 9.262155912
Physical Great Talon 20             100     1  

Once again, Tibarn has 100% hit and 13% crit, while Hector has 85%

Tibarn has 15% chance to activate Tear and a 34% chance of activating Pavise

Tibarn (T) struck dealing 13 damage!
Hector missed!
Tibarn (T) attacks again dealing 13 damage!
Tibarn (T) HP = 64
Hector HP = 32

Tibarn Cantos away

Hector spends his turn running after Tibarn and not reaching him.

Tibarn (T) struck dealing 13 damage!
Hector counter attacks dealing 23 damage!
Tibarn (T) uses Tear dealing 74 damage!
Tibarn (T) HP = 41
Hector is dead

A bit of a foregone conclusion. Hector doesn't have any skills, so if he can't win without them, he's not going to be able to win with them. IN addition to Tibarn having a 15% chance of outright ending the fight (I didn't rig him using it on that last attack, I swear), he also has a 30% chance of negating all damage. But the extra thing that really makes things hopeless for Hector is that he can't even catch up to Tibarn. Tibarn has twice as much move as Hector in addition to Canto, meaning Tibarn can safely player phase Hector for complete control of the battle.

Tibarn is the winner.

I05ymF9.png

Next battle will be Leif (Holy War) vs Azura.

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The community is certain that Leif will be victorious. Let's find out if that's the case.

ROUND 1: No weapons, no skills

Spoiler
Leif 57 31 10 29 27 17 28 13 66.5 49 23 0 9.021957787
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con Move
Azura 31 24 12 27 29 24 8 13 66 55.5 25.5 NA 5.242139908

 

Both units have 100% hit. Azura has 9% hit

Leif struck dealing 23 damage!
Azura counter attacks dealing 0 damage!
 
Leif HP = 57
Azura HP = 8
Azura struck dealing 0 damage!
Leif counter attacks dealing 23 damage!
 
Azura is dead.
Leif HP = 57

 

So that went pretty much as expected. Azura, despite her seemingly good strength in midgame Fates, couldn't even damage Leif. And even more surprisingly, she couldn't even double him.

ROUND 2: Weapons, no skills

Spoiler
Physical Silver Axe (Genealogy) 22             70     18  
Leif 57 31 10 29 27 17 28 13 66.5 49 23 0 9.021957787
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con Move
Azura -9 24 12 27 29 24 8 13 66 55.5 25.5 NA 5.242139908
Physical Guard Naginata 5         5 5 75 -10      

Leif's hit chance is 100% Azura's is 77% Azura has a 9% crit chance

Leif struck dealing 40 damage!
 
 
Leif HP = 57
Azura is dead.

 

So again there seems to be no winning here for Azura. Bolt Naginata won't help her as she never has the chance to outrange Leif, she just dies straight away, same for the Waterwheel. If we needed to go to round 3, Azura could reduce the damage enough with her combination of skills to survive one round of combat, but she's still doing nothing to scratch the all mighty Master Lord Leif.

Ww1XKyD.png

Next up, Alm vs Edelgard!

 

Edited by Jotari

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Day 4 Alm vs Edelgard

The community is split on which one of these will win. Let's find out.

ROUND 1: No weapons, no skills

Spoiler

Alm 59 28 0 36 30 29 27 8 86.5 59.5 32.5 0 5.509213142
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con Move
Edelgard 61 33 21 20 18 18 28 15 49 36 19 7.29 6.04184991

Edelgard has 90% hit and Alm has 100% hit. Alm has a 15% crit chance.

Edelgard struck dealing 6 damage!
Alm counter attacks dealing 0 damage!
Alm attacks again dealing 0 damage!
Edelgard HP = 61
Alm HP = 53

So we have another victory in this round by virtue of one unit being able to deal damage and the other not. If that's something that's not exciting for you guys, then tell me and I can change the damage on the default "No weapon" option.

Also, somewhat surprisingly, Edelgard has more move than Alm. They both have a displayed move stat of 5, but movement stats are lower in Three Houses overall compared to Shadows of Valentia, so Edelgard's 5 is better than Alm's 5.

Edelgard is the winner.

ROUND 2: Weapons, no skills

Spoiler

Physical Falchion V 12             100     1  
Alm 53 28 0 36 30 29 27 8 86.5 59.5 32.5 0 5.509213142
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con Move
Edelgard 61 33 21 20 18 18 28 15 49 36 19 7.29 6.04184991
Physical Aymr 24             60   20 11  

Edelgard has 35% hit chance while Alm has 100% hit chance. Alm has 15% crit chance while Edelgard has 10%.

Alm struck dealing 12 damage!
Edelgard counter attacks dealing 30 damage!
Alm attacks again dealing 12 damage!
Alm HP = 23
Edelgard is dead.

 

Weapon triangle advantage has hit Edelgard hard here (Weapon Triangle is +- 15% hit). She had a very disappointing 35% hit chance. She only needs two hits to kill Alm, which statistically she can actually pull off, but she didn't manage to this time. Alm is the winner.

ROUND 3: Weapons and skills

Spoiler

    Effective Damage               Hit Boost Eva Boost Crit Boost    
    No               0 0 -10    
    NA                        
Weapon Triangle Physical Falchion V 12             100     1  
WTA Alm 59 28 0 36 30 29 27 8 86.5 59.5 32.5 0 5.509213142
    HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con Move
WTD Edelgard 61 38 21 20 18 22 28 15 49 36 19 7.29 6.04184991
Weapon Triangle Physical Aymr 24             60   20 11  
    NA                        
    No               20 10 0    
    Effective Damage               Hit Boost Eva Boost Crit Boost    

 

Things look more complicated there. What's important is that Edelgard has gained more stats. +5 str from Axe Faire, +4 luck from Pomp and Circumstance, +20hit and +10 evade from Axe Prowess 5. Alm has suffered -10 crit to simulate Edelgard's +10 crit evade. Let's see if these extra skills are enough to help Edelgard.

Edelgard used Raging Storm, 49 damage!
Alm counter attacks dealing 12 damage!
Alm attacks again dealing 12 damage!
Edelgard HP = 37
Alm HP = 10

Edelgard attacks again thanks to Raging Storm

Edelgard struck dealing 49 damage!
 
 
Edelgard HP = 37
Alm is dead.

 

Despite having Scendscale and Renewal to help him, the introduction of skills did nothing for Alm, as Edelgard could use Raging Storm to ensure Alm never got a player phase (that's precisely why I didn't give Alm the Royal Sword). And thanks to a combination of Axe Prowess and Raging Storm, Edelgard could get her hit up to a much more comfortable 65%. Although that is still low enough for her to miss, and if she had then she would have been in big trouble. But in this simulation, as it happens, she didn't. So Edelgard is the winner!

 

 

 

Edelgard wins 2:1!

That was actually a pretty close round. The roll of the dice could have swayed things in either direction in both round 2 and 3. But as it happened, things went Edelgard's way.

EJjLI2X.png

Next up is Seliph vs Ryoma!

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This is an interesting one. It's an open question to me of if Seliph benefits more from WTA on Silver Lance or if Tyrfing's might's the better choice, because he's facing doubling regardless unless Ryoma's speed goes down a couple of points when averaged out. Ryoma's skillset obviously makes it harder to determine as well, but he is Astraless and can't crit.

Question, is Miracle acting like later FEs? Because I don't think Seliph would be happy to hear that.

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16 minutes ago, Dayni said:

This is an interesting one. It's an open question to me of if Seliph benefits more from WTA on Silver Lance or if Tyrfing's might's the better choice, because he's facing doubling regardless unless Ryoma's speed goes down a couple of points when averaged out. Ryoma's skillset obviously makes it harder to determine as well, but he is Astraless and can't crit.

Question, is Miracle acting like later FEs? Because I don't think Seliph would be happy to hear that.

Nope. Miracle is like it is in Genealogy. Much more of a pain for me to calculate and implement, but it works the way it works. I'd say Seliph is better with Tyrfing than a silver lance It'll deal way more damage and and WTD probably won't provide much in the way of hit issues for Ryoma. And the +10 skill from Tyrfing will provide more hit for Seliph than WTA if he ends up having hit troubles (I'm using skl*2+luk/2 for hit, and +15% for WTA).

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Just now, Jotari said:

Nope. Miracle is like it is in Genealogy. Much more of a pain for me to calculate and implement, but it works the way it works. I'd say Seliph is better with Tyrfing than a silver lance It'll deal way more damage and and WTD probably won't provide much in the way of hit issues for Ryoma. And the +10 skill from Tyrfing will provide more hit for Seliph than WTA if he ends up having hit troubles (I'm using skl*2+luk/2 for hit, and +15% for WTA).

Yeah, I see what you mean. That's 18 might for you.

Honestly if Ryoma hits him too low the third round becomes impossible for him? Sounds like a funny way for it to end.

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How did the weapon triangle helped Alm in his battle against Edelgard?(second round) I thought that since in 3H there's no weapon triangle, 3H weapons would all act as if they were neutral to the triangle (like, the triangle only has effect when 2 characters from non 3H games face each other). Well, she already won so it doesnt matter that she lost that round, Im just asking anyway.

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1 hour ago, ARMADS!!! said:

How did the weapon triangle helped Alm in his battle against Edelgard?(second round) I thought that since in 3H there's no weapon triangle, 3H weapons would all act as if they were neutral to the triangle (like, the triangle only has effect when 2 characters from non 3H games face each other). Well, she already won so it doesnt matter that she lost that round, Im just asking anyway.

Not only is there no weapon triangle in Three Houses, there isn't in Shadows of Valentia either. So one could certainly make the argument that there shouldn't be any weapon triangle in the battle. But I'm just using a standard weapon triangle for everyone, otherwise I'd have to factor in how the weapon triangle differs between games (such as being +30 in Genealogy or having Bows and stuff included in Fates). Besides, there is also a psudeo weapon triangle in Three Houses in the form of breaker weapons.

EDIT: I've just noticed that some how the copy and paste of the battle run down somehow messed up for the second round. Not sure how that happened. And now Serenes's legendary "This five minute post is too old to edit" error is hitting me. To give a better explanation of what happened, Edelgard missed twice, which is slightly against the odds with a 35% hit rate (though balanced out by Alm's 5% greater hit rate and twice the number of opportunities to pull it off).

EDIT 2: And no reflecting back on this battle, I should have actually let Alm get the first attack in. For while Edelgard has more move than he does, Alm actually has more attack range as he can attack up to three spaces with the default bow. Although I don't think he can actually damage Edelgard with the default bow. He could have used Scendscale before Edelgard could use Raging Storm, however it wouldn't have shifted the battle in his favor as an additional hit of Scendscale wouldn't be enough to kill Edelgard.

Edited by Jotari

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On 11/15/2021 at 6:54 AM, Jotari said:

Seteth has 100% chance. Marth has 90% hit chance. Marth has 11% crit.

Seteth struck dealing 27 damage!
Marth counter attacks dealing 9 damage!
Boom! Critical! Marth dealt 27 damage!
Seteth HP = 18
Marth HP = 19
Marth struck dealing 9 damage!
Seteth counter attacks dealing 27 damage!
 
Marth is dead.
Seteth HP = 9

 

Marth could have used the Falchion to heal 10 instead of attacking to get the win here.

 

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1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Marth could have used the Falchion to heal 10 instead of attacking to get the win here.

 

You're right actually. Guess it slipped my mind because 10HP doesn't seem like it could do much (I do plan on having Roy use this aspect of his weapon). Wish I'd realized that. Marth would have been able to deal exactly enough damage to finish Seteth off and survive with 2HP. Though it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the match entirely as Seteth could still defeat Marth without Marth even having a chance to attack in the skills round.

Edited by Jotari

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6 hours ago, Jotari said:

You're right actually. Guess it slipped my mind because 10HP doesn't seem like it could do much (I do plan on having Roy use this aspect of his weapon). Wish I'd realized that. Marth would have been able to deal exactly enough damage to finish Seteth off and survive with 2HP. Though it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the match entirely as Seteth could still defeat Marth without Marth even having a chance to attack in the skills round.

If Marth uses the Falchion to recover on his player phase, then Seteth would also recover HP before the next round, owing to the Spear of Assasl and Ochain Shield. Thus putting him out of range for a 2HKO from Marth (assuming no crits).

23 hours ago, Jotari said:

So we have another victory in this round by virtue of one unit being able to deal damage and the other not. If that's something that's not exciting for you guys, then tell me and I can change the damage on the default "No weapon" option.

I'm not totally seeing the point of a "no weapons" round, since it isn't really representative of any kind of encounter that might occur between the two units (excepting, ironically, for Valentian units). Maybe replace it with an "Iron Weapons only" duel?

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The community has their bets on Ryoma, but Seliph is one of the best lords in the series with his weapon in hand. Who wins here could decide a lot for future matches. Let's find out!

ROUND 1: No weapons, no skills

Spoiler

Seliph 58 28 11 24 20 21 23 19 58.5 40.5 22.5 0 9.021957787
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con Move
Ryoma 55 25 0 24 29 23 17 12 59.5 55 23.5 NA 6.29056789

Both units have 100% hit, Ryoma has 3% crit

 

Seliph struck dealing 11 damage!
Ryoma counter attacks dealing 2 damage!
Ryoma attacks again dealing 2 damage!
Seliph HP = 54
Ryoma HP = 44

 

 

 

So like all the other matches with no weapon (or rather a 0 damage 100% hit weapon), I'm willing to call this after one clash. Seliph is just dealing far more damage than Ryoma. Even if Ryoma crits on both of his attacks, he'll only deal one extra damage, and a crit chance of 3 isn't exactly big.

ROUND 2: Weapons, no skills

Spoiler

One thing I probably should have asked the community is how to handle Ryoma's swordmaster crit chance (and a boosted 10% avoid too). Ie should it be allowed in this round. Because it's not considered a skill under Fate's skill system. It's an innate property of the class. Given Ryoma won't be able to crit at all in the final round tanks to Seliph's Nihil, I think I will implement it here in this round.

Physical Tyrfing 30   10 10     20 80     7  
Seliph 58 28 11 24 20 21 23 19 58.5 40.5 22.5 0 9.021957787
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con Move
Ryoma 55 25 0 24 29 23 17 12 59.5 55 23.5 NA 6.29056789
Physical Raijinto 15     1   -1 -1 80 10 5 0  

Seliph has a 64% hit chance, Ryoma has a 99% hit chance and an 18% crit chance

 

Seliph struck dealing 42 damage!
Ryoma counter attacks dealing 17 damage!
Ryoma attacks again dealing 17 damage!
Seliph HP = 24
Ryoma HP = 13

 

Ryoma struck dealing 17 damage!
Boom! Critical! Ryoma dealt 51 damage!
 
Ryoma HP = 13
Seliph is dead.

 

It was a close one. Tyrfing gives Seliph a truly terrifying damage out put, capable of two shotting Ryoma. BUt what really wins it for Ryoma here is Ranjito's 1-2 range, allowing him to get four attacks in on Seliph before Seliph can attack twice.

 

The winner is Ryoma.

 

 

ROUND 3: Weapons and skills

Spoiler

Physical Tyrfing 30   10 10     20 80     7  
Seliph 58 28 11 24 20 21 23 19 58.5 40.5 22.5 0 9.021957787
  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Hit Eva Crit Weight/Con Move
Ryoma 55 30 0 24 29 23 17 12 59.5 55 23.5 NA 6.29056789
Physical Raijinto 15     1   -1 -1 80 10 5 0  

 

Again, Seliph has a 64% hit chance and Ryoma has 99%, both have a zero % crit chance. Ryoma would have higher avoid when attacking thanks to duelist blow, but since Seliph can't enemy phase Ryoma, it's irrelevant. In fact, thanks to Nihil, the only skills that'll have any affect here are Vantage and Swordfaire. So I expect this'll go down pretty similar to round 2.

Seliph struck dealing 42 damage!
Ryoma counter attacks dealing 22 damage!
Ryoma attacks again dealing 22 damage!
Seliph HP = 14
Ryoma HP = 13

 

Ryoma struck dealing 22 damage!
 
Ryoma HP = 13
Seliph is dead.

 

It's not immediately obvious, but the major advantage for Ryoma here is actually Swordfaire. Without Swordfaire, Roma would have knocked Seliph down to 6hp, which would have resulted in a massive avoid boost thanks to Miracle. But fortunately for Ryoma, the increased damage let him take Seliph out in three hits.

The winner is Ryoma

 

Ryoma wins. 2:1.

O9vcUeX.png

Tomorrow will be Roy vs Ike.

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15 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

If Marth uses the Falchion to recover on his player phase, then Seteth would also recover HP before the next round, owing to the Spear of Assasl and Ochain Shield. Thus putting him out of range for a 2HKO from Marth (assuming no crits).

I'm not totally seeing the point of a "no weapons" round, since it isn't really representative of any kind of encounter that might occur between the two units (excepting, ironically, for Valentian units). Maybe replace it with an "Iron Weapons only" duel?

Iron weapons is actually kind of the idea of the round. The whole point is to more accurately represent units like Roy who have great weapons, but aren't otherwise great units. The only issue is that 0 damage is a bit too low to have a proper fight given the defense stats of all these units. I could bump it up a few points with actual Iron Weapons. But then we have the question as to what the stats of the Iron weapon should be since they vary each game. Should units use the iron weapons from their own game? Then it's a little less a pure comparison between the two units and more about which game has the slightly better iron swords. What about games where iron isn't the worst weapon type? Should Radiant Dawn Ike use a bronze sword and Byleth use a training sword instead? I'm open to suggestions, but these are the kind of questions that need to be tackeld first.

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7 minutes ago, Dayni said:

How does Ryoma double in Round 2 or 3?

What is determining doubling speed?

Ah yes. This is something I should have mentioned. Seliph's +10 speed boost from Tyrfing isn't as large as it appears. As Tyrfing also has a weight of 7 and Seliph has no con to offset it (there's no mechanic to counteract weapon weight in Genealogy). So really he's just getting a +3 speed boost from Tyrfing, leaving Ryoma's 30 speed as more than enough to double.

Edited by Jotari

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3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Ah yes. This is something I should have mentioned. Seliph's +10 speed boost from Tyrfing isn't as large as it appears. As Tyrfing also has a weight of 7 and Seliph has no con to offset it (there's no mechanic to counteract weapon weight in Genealogy). So really he's just getting a +3 speed boost from Tyrfing, leaving Ryoma's 29 speed as more than enough to double.

Yeah, I did think about it earlier but I should have seen Ryoma's Spd in comparison.

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Iron weapons is actually kind of the idea of the round. The whole point is to more accurately represent units like Roy who have great weapons, but aren't otherwise great units. The only issue is that 0 damage is a bit too low to have a proper fight given the defense stats of all these units. I could bump it up a few points with actual Iron Weapons. But then we have the question as to what the stats of the Iron weapon should be since they vary each game. Should units use the iron weapons from their own game? Then it's a little less a pure comparison between the two units and more about which game has the slightly better iron swords. What about games where iron isn't the worst weapon type? Should Radiant Dawn Ike use a bronze sword and Byleth use a training sword instead? I'm open to suggestions, but these are the kind of questions that need to be tackeld first.

Well, you could construct "modal" Iron weapons. Like, the Iron Sword has 5 Might in 10 games, and 90 Hit in 8 games, out of the 15 in which it appears. Weight is a bit trickier (since it works differently between games) - we could assume these weapons to have 0 effective weight, since some games don't even feature a Weight mechanic. It wouldn't seem right, for instance, for Seliph and Ryoma to fight with the same weapons, but only Seliph loses speed from it.

I'd hesitate to use Bronze Weapons (the anti-crit effects make them less "boring" than Iron) or the Training Weapons (which I view as more akin to the "Slim" series).

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