Tips and Advice?

[Shadow Mir]

31 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Plenty of ways of playing around crits too if you are worried about them, from all pairups giving +5 crit avoid, to Percey's +15 crit avoid, to the basic +10 from Bronze weapons if you need it. Not to mention the fact that they can get the kind of health to take a crit if you need to.

How ironic. Didn't you bash Arthur in that other thread for restricting your team to have to play around a weakness? Now you're white knighting a class that actively forces you to play around a crippling weakness? How very droll you are.

31 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

And despite the way you act with Berserkers, your own preference for +HP and -Skill Corrin makes clear you know the defensive utility of HP (not to mention how baffling it is to complain about Berserker's unreliable hit when you seem fine saddling Corrrin with accuracy problems, which hint that you know how to play around accuracy issues like that despite how you act). Plus a unit that can double with the second highest speed of all Nohrian classes, and kill with the highest strength of all Fates classes can do a lot more with those defensive advantages, than a unit that is too slow, or two weak to kill enemies, or too defensive to even be targeted.

Last I checked, Corrin uses the most accurate weapon type, barring reclass shenanigans. Also, high HP is utterly meaningless when your defenses suck harder than Little Mac's recovery. Which is another problem that foot axes tend to have. Just ask Charlotte.

31 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

It really doesn't take that much work to get Charlotte going. Plus you could just as easily class change Beruka to Berserker, or Keaton to Berserker, or even Benny to Berserker (not to mention all the kid, and partner/friend seal options).

Sure, if you like ruining a unit by making them into a bad class, that is.

31 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Long story short Berserkers are great, you have just never bothered to use one to find out. Now I don't want to waste more of this thread on an endless argument here, so this will be my last comment on the matter.

If you like volatile situations with high risk and very little reward, they are great. Otherwise, they're a hard pass.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Shadow Mir

[Eltosian Kadath]

9 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

How ironic. Didn't you bash Arthur in that other thread for restricting your team to have to play around a weakness? Now you're white knighting a class that actively forces you to play around a crippling weakness? How very droll you are.

Make mountains out of molehills if you like, I was just pointing out it doesn't even have to be a molehill...I guess tone isn't as easy to discern over the internet, so I wont blame you for missing that.

 

5 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Last I checked, Corrin uses the most accurate weapon type, barring reclass shenanigans.

...Dragon Stones??? This just comes across as either forgetful, or intentionally inaccurate.

 

5 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Also, high HP is utterly meaningless when your defenses suck harder than Little Mac's recovery. Which is another problem that foot axes tend to have.

Its sounds like making your high HP units have more defensive ability is even more useful than making other units more defensive, just like I was arguing before...

[Shadow Mir]

8 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Make mountains out of molehills if you like, I was just pointing out it doesn't even have to be a molehill...I guess tone isn't as easy to discern over the internet, so I wont blame you for missing that.

Okay, these are your own words from the topic I was talking about:

On 11/2/2021 at 11:22 PM, Eltosian Kadath said:

FE14 CQ: Arthur: He kinda needs his son to overcome the weaknesses of his personal skill, and restricting your team composition like that for an otherwise a meh unit makes him the worst of the Conquest cast.

Now, I also stated Arthur was the worst unit in Conquest, in part because of him being vulnerable to critical hits between his godawful luck and his personal making it such that he loses crit evade (which makes it such that even if one throws Goddess Icons on him to fix it. of which he needs three to get over his deficit because of how crit evade is half luck, he still risks instant death to any enemy unit that doesn't use one of the weapons that outright makes the user unable to perform critical hits). Berserkers are themselves vulnerable to critical hits innately, as they have a penalty to Cev. If that can be held against a unit, it's justifiable to hold it against an entire class in my book, as in both cases, one has to actively play around that if they don't want them to auto-lose any battle they get in and thus have to restart because some cannon fodder got a triple damage crit in.

8 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

...Dragon Stones??? This just comes across as either forgetful, or intentionally inaccurate.

Swords. This probably goes without saying, but low skill isn't as crippling when you use swords as it'd be when you use axes (also, most of the time I have Corrin use dragonstones, it's either to hold a line, to lure in an enemy, or against an enemy that has much more defense than resistance, of which many of those tend to be slow).

9 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Its sounds like making your high HP units have more defensive ability is even more useful than making other units more defensive, just like I was arguing before...

Only if they don't have to worry about having whatever damage they take being tripled in any fight, as otherwise you're asking for Murphy's Law to bite you in the ass (I know this is a different game, but just look at Barth in Binding Blade. Looking at his base stats, he looks like a good tank on paper, but his luck ruins that, due to the chance for enemy crits to punch through his defense). Also, the part about enemies ignoring you if they can't do damage (which seems to be what you're getting at) only applies to Conquest, as Birthright and Revelation enemies still have no problem attacking into a unit that they're unable to damage. Like I said in another thread, I'm usually better off having a unit like Xander, who generally doesn't care if he gets hit, take the lead when it comes to luring enemies in for the rest of my units to give them a beating than someone like Charlotte, who things can quickly go wrong for if they don't dodge whatever comes their way.

[Eltosian Kadath]

6 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Okay, these are your own words from the topic I was talking about:

I can't believe I need to repeat this quote to you again, but

Quote

...

On 11/3/2021 at 12:32 AM, Eltosian Kadath said:

First, the entire cast of Conquest is much more usable in their game than either of Wendy, or Sophia are in theirs.

That was literally the first line of the comment you are responding to. The quality of Conquest units are a lot closer together, and as such it takes much smaller faults to see a unit fall to the bottom.

The entire time, even in the thread that you went back to quote, I have explicitly stated that it is a small issue, there are ways to work around it, enemy crit rates are rarely high, and with the amount of health Berserkers gets, they can take a random triple damage hit.

 

6 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Now, I also stated Arthur was the worst unit in Conquest, in part because of him being vulnerable to critical hits between his godawful luck and his personal making it such that he loses crit evade (which makes it such that even if one throws Goddess Icons on him to fix it. of which he needs three to get over his deficit because of how crit evade is half luck, he still risks instant death to any enemy unit that doesn't use one of the weapons that outright makes the user unable to perform critical hits).

As you well noted this unit has issues that are unique to them as a unit, and his biggest issue is his average luck never getting high enough to overcome even the penalty of his personal skill, unlike all the other Berserkers that I have mentioned, that do get enough Luck to overcome that class penalty...

 

6 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Birthright and Revelation enemies still have no problem attacking into a unit that they're unable to damage.

Still applies in BR and RV, its just that certain enemy types (most notably Valla troops, that are very, very, very common in RV, and Faceless, that are much more common in BR) will behave differently.

 

6 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Like I said in another thread, I'm usually better off having a unit like Xander, who generally doesn't care if he gets hit, take the lead when it comes to luring enemies in for the rest of my units to give them a beating than someone like Charlotte, who things can quickly go wrong for if they don't dodge whatever comes their way.

If that is how you like to play, then play that way, but Berserkers work well in that style of play too. Berserkers do a lot of damage on the offensive, being able to double or even one shot enemies that would otherwise double and survive Xander, or possibly even get attack stance kills that Xander would fail to get with his main attack, and having one around can really help clear out the enemies that you lured in.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Eltosian Kadath
Accidently used a Spoiler box instead of a quote box

[Boji]

On 11/15/2021 at 12:06 AM, Dayni said:

Another clarification: changing classes with the seals does not reset your level (Outside Master Seals)

 

On 11/16/2021 at 9:20 PM, Eltosian Kadath said:

Plenty of ways of playing around crits too if you are worried about them, from all pairups giving +5 crit avoid, to Percey's +15 crit avoid, to the basic +10 from Bronze weapons if you need it. Not to mention the fact that they can get the kind of health to take a crit if you need to.

 

And despite the way you act with Berserkers, your own preference for +HP and -Skill Corrin makes clear you know the defensive utility of HP (not to mention how baffling it is to complain about Berserker's unreliable hit when you seem fine saddling Corrrin with accuracy problems, which hint that you know how to play around accuracy issues like that despite how you act). Plus a unit that can double with the second highest speed of all Nohrian classes, and kill with the highest strength of all Fates classes can do a lot more with those defensive advantages, than a unit that is too slow, or two weak to kill enemies, or too defensive to even be targeted.

 

It really doesn't take that much work to get Charlotte going. Plus you could just as easily class change Beruka to Berserker, or Keaton to Berserker, or even Benny to Berserker (not to mention all the kid, and partner/friend seal options).

 

Long story short Berserkers are great, you have just never bothered to use one to find out. Now I don't want to waste more of this thread on an endless argument here, so this will be my last comment on the matter.

Well thanks for the info everyone! I didn't think people would continue to comment here, so sorry for the late response.

[Shadow Mir]

On 11/17/2021 at 6:46 AM, Eltosian Kadath said:

As you well noted this unit has issues that are unique to them as a unit, and his biggest issue is his average luck never getting high enough to overcome even the penalty of his personal skill, unlike all the other Berserkers that I have mentioned, that do get enough Luck to overcome that class penalty...

The thing is, even those units you say have the luck to overcome the penalty still need help to avoid rogue crit chances, because before personal modifiers, Berserker has a 25 luck cap. Considering the Cev penalty, they only wind up with 7 Cev at most. Of course, this is putting aside the fact that they may not even cap luck. Also, lategame enemies have enough crit chance that even a high-luck Berserker would still face non-zero crit chances without help from other sources, which is no bueno when you consider that crit is stupidly lopsided in terms of usefulness (which is the main reason why I consider Fates Berserkers an example of how to absolutely murder a class's viability even when they have excellent offense and speed; I mean, I don't mind units having a chance of doing additional damage, but I take issue with when the extra damage is so high that it's practically instant death to whoever is on the receiving end). There's still the fact that the only thing I accomplish by making Beruka, Keaton or Benny a Berserker is shooting myself in the foot, as they're all worse off there than they'd be in their original classes.

On 11/17/2021 at 6:46 AM, Eltosian Kadath said:

Still applies in BR and RV, its just that certain enemy types (most notably Valla troops, that are very, very, very common in RV, and Faceless, that are much more common in BR) will behave differently.

I don't know about that; about the only exception to "attack player units the moment they're in range" that I often see from enemy units is thieves, which normally prioritize stealing something, and only bother to attack when you prevent them from doing what they're trying to do.

On 11/17/2021 at 6:46 AM, Eltosian Kadath said:

If that is how you like to play, then play that way, but Berserkers work well in that style of play too. Berserkers do a lot of damage on the offensive, being able to double or even one shot enemies that would otherwise double and survive Xander, or possibly even get attack stance kills that Xander would fail to get with his main attack, and having one around can really help clear out the enemies that you lured in.

Unfortunately, a Berserker being able to do a lot of damage on offense is nothing special when other units can do a lot of damage on the offensive without the high risk factor that being a Berserker comes with.

10 hours ago, Boji said:

Well thanks for the info everyone! I didn't think people would continue to comment here, so sorry for the late response.

I will also note that because levels don't reset, that means much less leveling to do to get skills compared to Awakening. For example, if you reclass into Swordmaster at level 4 and have yet to learn any of its skills, you'd get Duelist's Blow at level 5, Vantage at level 6, and Astra at level 7.