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WanderingCommentator

Normal Types have got to go

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I don't actually have a problem with normal types on most levels. There needs to be a typing for the bidoofs and zizagoons of the world, and for some moves being normal type feels right. But, much like Regigigas, they look cool, but suck on a gameplay level; They don't factor into Pokemon's rock-paper-scissors dynamic at all. They have no super-effective moves, they do have weaknesses, and the only value I can see in them is that they make the other types look cooler. Which would be fine, if they weren't so useless.They need a new gimmick. Maybe they can learn a wider typing variety of moves compared to most pokemon. Giving all of them the evee/arcus treatment of type switching might be unfeasible, but they need to adapt or die stagnate. 

To clarify, I actually quite like the normal typing, just want to have a reason to choose them in a battle over literally any other type. And I don't see any way to change that.

[As I'm writing this, I realize normal types actually have quite a few Pokemon with interesting gameplay styles, possible more so than other types. So my post still stands, the common normal types still need to rise up other bourgeoisie typings, but the normal type grouping has more going for it then I first thought]

Examples of Good Normal types:

 

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Edited by WanderingCommentator

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In early Pokemon games Normal had a pretty solid niche of getting STAB on some extremely powerful attacks - first Body Slam in RBY and then Return in GSC. Other than ground, no other physical types had good attacks like this (or at most, they'd be limited to one pokemon, like Hi Jump Kick in RBY and Megahorn in GSC). So in practice normal types tended to be extremely hard-hitting, with the downside that they could never hit a weakness. A fair balance.

As time went on this niche was eroded as physical type after physical type gained actually good attacks, and I agree in the more recent games Normal types have started feeling increasingly underwhelming.

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no they don't

it's so cool that some of the most generic-looking pokemon are actually the ones which are closer to their god Arceus

as for combat performances, who tf cares, just use yout favorite pokemon; if i were to make a counter-argument, it would be that (potential Pokemon Legends Arceus spoilers):

Spoiler

being Hisuian Zorua and Zoroark Normal/Ghost pokemon, they have an incredible typing,  as they are immune to normal, fighing and ghost type moves

 

Edited by Yexin

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2 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

In early Pokemon games Normal had a pretty solid niche of getting STAB on some extremely powerful attacks - first Body Slam in RBY and then Return in GSC. Other than ground, no other physical types had good attacks like this (or at most, they'd be limited to one pokemon, like Hi Jump Kick in RBY and Megahorn in GSC). So in practice normal types tended to be extremely hard-hitting, with the downside that they could never hit a weakness. A fair balance.

As time went on this niche was eroded as physical type after physical type gained actually good attacks, and I agree in the more recent games Normal types have started feeling increasingly underwhelming.

I wouldn't cry over Normal being replaced by or split up into other types with more interesting dynamics like Beast and Light. Beast is a logical counterpart to Bug in that it represents a particular phylum of animals, in this case mostly mammals, especially carnivores, rodents, and ungulates. Beast also would handily group together moves that involve teeth, claws, horns, or animalistic sounds such as growling and roaring. There's a wide variety of Pokemon that could easily fit into the Beast type, including the Legendary Beasts.

Light likewise represents concepts that don't really have an ideal candidate yet. Aside from the obvious phenomenon of light (which to be fair other types can represent as well), you have the philosophical concepts of purity, healing, protection, and justice. While some of those may be covered by one type or another, no type currently covers them all. Psychic doesn't work because it's weak to Dark and Ghost, two of the types Light should be super-effective against. Not only is Fairy weak to Poison, the third type Light should trump, but Fairies themselves are not necessarily benign or protective beings, as the likes of Hatterene and Grimmsnarl demonstrate. The Fighting-type may be the ethical counterpart to the Dark-type, but they aren't the moral counterpart. Keep in mind I'm not saying Light-types are inherently moral, just that morality is often a driving force behind their actions.

No type currently in the game represents the concept of an angel, cleric, or paladin as well as Light could. Yeah, you can argue Flying, Fairy, and Steel come close, but then you could make them Light/Flying, Light/Fairy (or even just pure Light) and Light/Steel to represent the concepts even better.

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7 hours ago, Yexin said:

no they don't

it's so cool that some of the most generic-looking pokemon are actually the ones which are closer to their god Arceus

as for combat performances, who tf cares, just use yout favorite pokemon; if i were to make a counter-argument, it would be that (potential Pokemon Legends Arceus spoilers):

  Reveal hidden contents

being Hisuian Zorua and Zoroark Normal/Ghost pokemon, they have an incredible typing,  as they are immune to normal, fighing and ghost type moves

 

A counter argument to your counter argument, that ghost type is hard carrying the normal. Normal only grants the ghost immunity which while great it gives no other benefit. A type should be able to stand and be judged alone(with the exception of flying) which normal can not do. I personally believe normal should beat Dragon and Fairy, make mundane beat mythical.

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On 12/1/2021 at 9:52 PM, WanderingCommentator said:

Maybe they can learn a wider typing variety of moves compared to most pokemon.

This used to be one of the type's niches back in the early gens, as the pure normal types tended to have deep movepools from TMs, but as Pokemon started getting less comically bad move sets in the latter generations, the wider variety of TMs that pure Normal types tended to get was no longer as impressive. When most mons didn't have 4 good moves to their name that extra coverage is an impressive niches, but having 10 good moves available isn't that much better than 5 when you can only have 4 of them anyway...

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12 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

In early Pokemon games Normal had a pretty solid niche of getting STAB on some extremely powerful attacks - first Body Slam in RBY and then Return in GSC. Other than ground, no other physical types had good attacks like this (or at most, they'd be limited to one pokemon, like Hi Jump Kick in RBY and Megahorn in GSC). So in practice normal types tended to be extremely hard-hitting, with the downside that they could never hit a weakness. A fair balance.

As time went on this niche was eroded as physical type after physical type gained actually good attacks, and I agree in the more recent games Normal types have started feeling increasingly underwhelming.

This is a very good point! I would definitely add Hyper Beam to the list, owing to its unique sweeping potential in RBY. And for later Gens, Boomburst (140 BP, 100 Hit) is a great special consideration.

Also, we should consider the near-ubiquity of Normal-type moves in the earlygame. Even non-Normal Mons, such as the starters, generally start out with a Normal-type attack (Tackle, Scratch, or Pound). By being Normal-type, earlygame Mons essentially get a 50% jump in power over the competition. If Pidgey were to lose its Normal-typing, for instance, its Tackle and Quick Attack would be doing two-thirds the damage they do now. Even the oft-derided Rattata gets not only the same STAB moves, but also a STAB Hyper Fang that outdamages any other attack available in the earlygame.

Basically, Normal-types stronk actually. 

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2 hours ago, ciphertul said:

A counter argument to your counter argument, that ghost type is hard carrying the normal. Normal only grants the ghost immunity which while great it gives no other benefit. A type should be able to stand and be judged alone(with the exception of flying) which normal can not do. I personally believe normal should beat Dragon and Fairy, make mundane beat mythical.

yeah, i should have specified that it wasn't an actually good counter-argument

a better one would be that the "normal" type is so wide and comprehends creatures which are so different between each other, that it would be impossible to re-label them under a new category

like, we have regular animals such as birds and rodents, but we also have creatures such as chansey, jigglypuff, clefairy, lickitung, ditto, loudred, castform, regigigas, meloetta, indeedee and more

i get beast type, i'd be cool, but a bit unnecessary imho, because it doesn't change what the pokemon is and what it wants to be at its core, nor does it change how people look at it (competitive community aside), but then we have options such as light and sound type which would be too specific and very few pokemon would benefit from this change

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