Book VI Discussion Thread

[Mercakete]

47 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

I'm curious what he told Xander about as well.

THAT'S WHAT IT WAS! I was trying to remember what I forgot to include in my post and now I remember! Here's what I think: it's implied that the fruit was there when Bruno died, but what if it's only assumed that he ate it? Embla had control over him for a while, and he was shown to be resisting her, but everything was the same as whenever she took over someone in the past. True, Ash didn't say the magic words, but what if he had Xander deliver at least some of the fruit to Veronica in case Embla had something else up her sleeve. Now, she'll discount the fruit as a viable weapon against her, so Veronica having also eaten the fruit would work as a sort of feint and sneak attack. After all, the phrasing was "whoever eats of this fruit." So, you only need to eat some of it for it to work.

[DefyingFates]

2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

THAT'S WHAT IT WAS! I was trying to remember what I forgot to include in my post and now I remember! Here's what I think: it's implied that the fruit was there when Bruno died, but what if it's only assumed that he ate it? Embla had control over him for a while, and he was shown to be resisting her, but everything was the same as whenever she took over someone in the past. True, Ash didn't say the magic words, but what if he had Xander deliver at least some of the fruit to Veronica in case Embla had something else up her sleeve. Now, she'll discount the fruit as a viable weapon against her, so Veronica having also eaten the fruit would work as a sort of feint and sneak attack. After all, the phrasing was "whoever eats of this fruit." So, you only need to eat some of it for it to work.

That works for me! It would be a pretty clever way to sacrifice yourself too, if you think about it.

[Etrurian emperor]

I'd be more moved by Bruno's plight if he didn't spend five books being either completely or mostly MIA.

[ARMADS!!!]

Wow... It surely sounds like they're killing every single one of the male OCs but Alfonse on purpouse, huh? As it was noted on this thread already, every guy but Hríd and Alfonse is either dead or Elm (AKA dead next month). Although I like what someone else said here, that is looks like every divinty is being killed one by one (starting with Hel, then Freyr and Freya, then Muspell (if I'm not wrong, but as I remember he died right?), then Ymir, and now Askr and of course, Embla will be dead by the end of he year too), only leaving Nifl and Alfador and co. alive (assuming that there aren't any other gods/divinties that we don't know), I wonder if this is some kind of prelude to Ragnarok? It would certainly be interesting.

 In any case, Bruno's death kinda pained me, I was realy hoping him to be able to cure himself and maybe join as the freebie on the next book or something, probably my fault to have any hopes though. Anyway, at least we've been getting some pretty cool "effects" on these newer chapters, first with that CG image of that fruit (eh...yeah, I already forgot the fruit's name but it doesn't matter now) and now with that entirely new portrait of Bruno for his death + Alsonse and Sharena exclusive expressions also used on Bruno's death, that made the moment way sadder than it would've been otherwise (like when the dying character's sprite just blinks in red after that "strike" sound). I hope to see more of this kind of thing on the future, specialy the CG images, they should be used a lot more, these made the past few chapters look really high quality.

 

 Now I'm really wondering what the next book will be about (will it be the Ragnarok already? Or perhaps a plot with Thórr, Líf, Thrasir and maybe Plumeria and Triandra? I know that there's no way to know yet but I can't help but wonder...). Oh, and also about the new year units! Guess we'll have Bruno and Veronica this year right? Or at least Bruno... (but GOD PLEASE I hope that they won't release his NY version instead of the OG like they did with Fafnir) And Ash too of course. We usually have 4 OCs though so I wonder if they'll break the pattern by giving us only 3 or if we will get either Askr, Elm or Letizia too (I mean, it can't be Xander, he already got a NY alt), or another OC like Ymir or Henriette (thats kind of a stretch I guess but anyway). Also not exactly related to book VI but I wonder if they'll really release winter Muspell for christmas, everyone was saying that IS had set themselves up for it back when they released Summer Nifl but now that Muspell got an alt I don't know if this has any chance of happening at all (I mean, is Muspell even popular enough to get 2 in less than 6 months like that? I don't think so) I really liked his new alt but I'm also kinda sad because Winter Muspell could've been awesome... Anyway, there's always next year I guess. Also, I desperately want to see Ganglot's face. I always get excited when it starts to get near the end of the year like that......... (I'm better shut up about this now before I start to think about the Halloween banner too)

 

 Well, continuing to talk about book VI, now there's only 2 chapters left to defeat both Elm and Embla so I figure that it'll be really, REALLY half assed, but I'm still looking forward to it (specially after reading what everyone had been saying here about how Embla might react after losing Elm). Also this time there's no mistery about the excuse that they are gonna use to have the freebie stay in Askr, but it would still be really cool if they did some kind of "epilogue" of the book like they did last year ( when they explained what happened to Jotunheimr, Nidavellir and Dagr) specially since this book is gonna end up with TWO divinties dead so the consequencies here are more... Global than on book V, which makes me think that it would be important to use some time to explain how everything is gonna continue without Askr and Embla around (specially in Embla because of the blood curse, will it end if Embla dies?)

 

 Eh..... Anyway, I guess that I don't have anything else to say, so thats it for now 🙂 

[Etrurian emperor]

22 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said:

Well, continuing to talk about book VI, now there's only 2 chapters left to defeat both Elm and Embla

Oh wow. Things are going kinda fast. I thought there was still some time to go.

[Mercakete]

@ARMADS!!!

Nifl's dead too. People probably think she lived just because Muspell lost in their fight, but after winning, Nifl was all "k thnx bye." And yeah, I'm thinking that we have maybe 1 or 2 books left (unless IS pulls more worlds out of left field.) Askr vs Embla was foreshadowed all the way back in Book 1, so the fact that that particular story is coming to a close says we're near the end of the story. Plus, there's been an obvious buildup to Ragnarok, and the only gods left are Alfador and those working directly for him (Thorr and Loki in particular have expressed fealty to him. Sounds an awful lot like the pattern of 2 generals we've seen.) And as for Lif, his story is closely tied to the Alfador plot. He was gathering forces to attack the guy, and even joined in the ranks of the gods as a subversive mission. Given the events in Life & Death, I'm guessing his strike went horribly wrong, and he, Thrasir, and the dark fairies were all wiped out (and then Ganglot rose him back top unlife after that, hence his despair and "I have to get stronger and I need to do whatever it takes to destroy the gods" which seems a lot more desperate than his previous stance, even if it was still grim before. Plus, the flashbacks of Thrasir being on the same level as the flashbacks of Sharena.) We know he'd gone off to serve the gods at Thorr's suggestion, but then Ganglot suddenly brought him back from death? Not too hard to piece that one together. What was going on behind the scenes with Lif is probably going to be brought to light in the next book, regardless of whether or not we're going up against Alfador himself in the next book, or the book after that. It depends largely on whether IS wants to separate the story into "vs Lif" and then "vs Alfador," or if they want to smoosh those two plotlines together (since they really are intrinsic to one another.)

Also, Rearmed Lif mentions that Alfonse will have to likewise do things he normally wouldn't if he wants to win. He also mentions that he'll help us out for now, but alludes to being an enemy in the future. (These are in base conversations or tap conversations or the lvl 40 conversation; I can't remember which.)

Ah, and at least Askr's power lives on (even if only a little bit) in Ash, but Elm is dying, so once Embla's gone, that's all for the godly power of Closing and Broken Bonds.

Oh, we also don't know much about Henriette, so it could be that we learn more about her in the next book. All we know are the hints she's given us that she's actually a LOT stronger than she likes people to know (and it sounds like she has trouble controling her strength.) I keep wondering if she's a daughter of Alfador's.

[Othin]

6 hours ago, Mercakete said:

And yeah, I'm thinking that we have maybe 1 or 2 books left (unless IS pulls more worlds out of left field.)

1-2 books to finish meeting this setting's Nine Realms and to reach the endgame of the Ragnarok story, but if they want to keep Heroes running longer than that, they could come up with all sorts of other stories afterward.

That's what I'm expecting, personally. For this type of game, the story doesn't have its length determined by the content itself, but by how long the studio wants to keep expending it.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Othin

[Mercakete]

4 hours ago, Othin said:

1-2 books to finish meeting this setting's Nine Realms and to reach the endgame of the Ragnarok story, but if they want to keep Heroes running longer than that, they could come up with all sorts of other stories afterward.

That's what I'm expecting, personally. For this type of game, the story doesn't have its length determined by the content itself, but by how long the studio wants to keep expending it.

Oh absolutely. And even if they don't throw any more main story stuff out there (since this is still a main series FE title) they could still end that portion and keep the game going with seasonal events, xenologues (maybe one following Bruno's story while the Askrans were doing their thing, maybe one following Lif's company's adventures, maybe a single chapter devoted to Hrid's struggle to keep Muspell from completely conquering Nifl before Alfonse, Kiran, and the rest showed up, etc.), new banners, and all the other modes and stuff they already have going.

[DefyingFates]

6 hours ago, Mercakete said:

xenologues (maybe one following Bruno's story while the Askrans were doing their thing, maybe one following Lif's company's adventures, maybe a single chapter devoted to Hrid's struggle to keep Muspell from completely conquering Nifl before Alfonse, Kiran, and the rest showed up, etc.)

I didn't think about that at all! The last Fallen Heroes FB was based around Otr and Eitri so there's nothing stopping them doing that again. In fact I think a Book built entirely around Lif building his anti-hero Avengers could be quite entertaining, if they do it right~

[Othin]

6 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Oh absolutely. And even if they don't throw any more main story stuff out there (since this is still a main series FE title) they could still end that portion and keep the game going with seasonal events, xenologues (maybe one following Bruno's story while the Askrans were doing their thing, maybe one following Lif's company's adventures, maybe a single chapter devoted to Hrid's struggle to keep Muspell from completely conquering Nifl before Alfonse, Kiran, and the rest showed up, etc.), new banners, and all the other modes and stuff they already have going.

A series of one-off chapters sounds like a nice change of pace. Sort of like the lighter mini-stories in Forging Bonds.

[Mercakete]

On 9/30/2022 at 3:42 AM, DefyingFates said:

I didn't think about that at all! The last Fallen Heroes FB was based around Otr and Eitri so there's nothing stopping them doing that again. In fact I think a Book built entirely around Lif building his anti-hero Avengers could be quite entertaining, if they do it right~

On 9/30/2022 at 4:13 AM, Othin said:

A series of one-off chapters sounds like a nice change of pace. Sort of like the lighter mini-stories in Forging Bonds.

IS already sort of began doing it, too. Besides that Eitri+Otr backstory example provided by Othin, there's also that glimpse into Bruno's search for a cure to Embla taking over those of his bloodline. It was one of the bunny chapters. Loki told Bruno about the Taguel and how there might be some information that would help out his quest in this one place (where the festival took place.) Honestly, though, I'd like a book or mini-book showcasing his side of things from all the way back when he and his mom were banished. We could see his relationship with Letizia before his banishment, too, and fast-forward to when he began hanging around Askr and met Alfonse and Sharena as Zacharias, and some of his adventures with them before that fateful moment when his blood curse activated and he attacked Alfonse. And then, of course, the story of his search for a cure thereafter. As for the events which led to his demise, we could either see more from his point of view (like when he went to talk to his contacts in Embla to find Veronica and undermine Letizia), or where there's a lot of overlap with the Askrans' side of the story, just have some flashback scenes to cap it off. Maybe some last thoughts that didn't manage to make it out as last words, too. It'd be a nice, somber way to end his story, too, I think. Like, if you want the more hopeful version, refer to the main story.

And, like I said, Hrid. He and what soldiers remained held off Surtr and his forces despite no one being able to defeat Surtr because of the Rite of Flame. People call Hrid insignificant, but that is not insignificant. I want to see more of what happened from his point of view, all the way from when Nifl was first invaded and how his parents responded, to the castle being attacked, to Fjorm and Gunnthra going on their respective quests to Hrid doing his best not to quail in spite of the hopeless situation. If you think about it, that would have been terrifying. An impervious invader with immense power, his parents were killed, and his country being taken over while he's suddenly expected to be the strength his people rely on. And again and again he keeps on fighting this invulnerable foe, and even as their numbers dwindle, he just has to keep on going, even with little to no hope in sight. He can't deal with his grief, he's not allowed to show fear, and he just has to keep fighting, even when he's among the enemy's most valuable targets. What a lot of pressure! This guy has nerves of steel! As for how his story would end, the last battle would have his side losing yet again, and he having to be brought away from the battlefield in a retreat due to his injuries. Then, while recuperating in camp, Fjorm shows up with the Askrans. And finally, Hrid can rest a little bit more easily, as finally, there's some hope. This story can then be capped off with a summary of events describing Surtr's demise and the successful repulsion of Muspell's forces, finally ending with Hrid looking toward the future and planning his kingdom's restoration. Also, maybe a scene with Fjorm telling her brother about how she wants to stay with the Order of Heroes for a while, and he and Ylgr seeing her off.

But yeah, I'm glad they're telling more background stories in the TT+'s, but those seem to more be about the gods, rather than things that have happened in the past. Another nice story would be to follow up on the one xenologue we have about Surtr in Hel. Even if it's just one other xenologue, seeing his thoughts on things as Book 3 progresses would be interesting, or at least his thoughts on Book 3's resolution. (Kind of surprised he didn't try to take over the place after Hel was gone since he was apparently animated enough to have a conversation with her after he died.)

Anyway, yeah, this kind of stuff would be nice. Maybe a thing about the goat siblings when they were kids (ha.) so we can see what was so gosh dang traumatic that it turned Freyja into a raging nightmare monster. That seems like a child banner sort of thing, though. Eh, I wouldn't complain. FEH deity children would be cute. (Embla as the emo kid, Askr as the "friends with everyone" kid, Muspell as that kid with so much energy he keeps acting out, Nifl as that kid who just plays in the corner by herself, Ymir as that kid who cries at everything, Freyr always wanting a nap...)

[Mercakete]

Okay, so indeed, Zacharias' plan had something to do with why the key didn't work. Good on him for foreseeing that they needed Embla to be cornered into only having 1 vessel available...buuuuut there's a plot hole. Alfonse tells Embla that she has no one left to retreat to, that no one else has her blood...but, well, there's a bunch of royal Emblians left (especially if Letizia had Embla's blood but was only...what, 16th in line for the throne, and having that blood is a requirement?)

Ignoring that (or just fudging it as Alfonse using psychological warfare and saying it with such authority that Embla thinks it's true), though, this was another well-written chapter. Alfonse being completely nonresponsive for the first part was really good pacing, and being realistic with his character. His own personal goal all this time, after all, was to be able to just be friends and hang out with Zacharias/Bruno again, and that was totally dashed to pieces. Further, he thought that the one plan they had had failed. Bruno had faith that Alfonse would figure out his ruse, though, which also adds to his last words: not just wanting his sister to be well, but trying to give a hint to Alfonse that she had the key. Xander may not have shown up here, exactly, but his role is clearly critical, too: going beneath Embla's notice to deliver the key and the message to Veronica. The exchange between Veronica and Alfonse was also good (but I feel like it could have been portrayed better in an animation format.) And Sharena did a good job of trying to get Alfonse to snap out of his grief. Anna helped, too, but Sharena was really strong there.

Now that I think about it, Alfonse is a very wits-oriented lord, which we don't see a lot of. Like, he relies so much on his intelligence and hardly even mentions (unless he's Lif) attaining physical strength. It's nice to have that kind of variety. I also keep wondering when we'll hear from Elm again. Maybe there'll be a little movie like with Book 3, where Embla's fleeing the Askrans as she's dying and runs into Elm, who is also dying. I'd love to see such a moving and tragic scene, supporting each other as the only ones who remain for one another...

[Aedan7479]

I'm worried about another rushed ending, we still have both Elm and Embla to deal with, everyone needs to make peace with Bruno's death, there's Veronica's political status, and the Askr and Embla (kingdoms) conflict, unless they do more than a post-battle and single cutscene after the end, I don't see the ending fitting everything.

[Mercakete]

2 hours ago, Aedan7479 said:

I'm worried about another rushed ending, we still have both Elm and Embla to deal with, everyone needs to make peace with Bruno's death, there's Veronica's political status, and the Askr and Embla (kingdoms) conflict, unless they do more than a post-battle and single cutscene after the end, I don't see the ending fitting everything.

I don't see why not. The people trusting in Veronica has already been established via the first part of Book 6, with Embla and Askr themselves gone, there isn't much reason to continue to the conflict, and both kingdoms had the sealing away happen. With Alfonse and Veronica both bringing that to an end, that'll go a long way toward establishing Veronica's rule (if she takes over) or softening her mother's position against Askr. So, the conflict would come to a natural end, the rule is established at the same time, and there's no reason for people to come to terms with Bruno's death. Basically, that's a personal journey sort of thing for each character, not an overarching plot point, and some people will probably carry that with them for the rest of their lives. All they really need to do is bring Elm and Embla to a close, and that can easily be done with a cutscene. Everything else can reasonably be implied.

[Medeus]

On 10/19/2022 at 2:50 PM, Aedan7479 said:

I'm worried about another rushed ending, we still have both Elm and Embla to deal with, everyone needs to make peace with Bruno's death, there's Veronica's political status, and the Askr and Embla (kingdoms) conflict, unless they do more than a post-battle and single cutscene after the end, I don't see the ending fitting everything.

It's probably going to be rushed. We've had five books with the same issue and the story already stretched itself thin with the Letizia/Embla split they had, so I doubt all of the threads are going to be wrapped up in a satisfactory way and some bits are going to be underwhelming.

[DefyingFates]

On 10/17/2022 at 8:13 PM, Mercakete said:

Like, he relies so much on his intelligence and hardly even mentions (unless he's Lif) attaining physical strength.

I hadn't thought of that before, but it's a good point! I think it makes sense too: Lif is probably still just as smart as ever, but at this point he's likely too depressed to come up with any plan beyond "hit it 'til it dies". Other than his inevitable betrayal of the gods of course; he's already made it clear that he hates being jerked around by them.

Also, Alfonse being unresponsive for the first act of the chapter was a really nice touch too, especially how he had to be snapped back to reality by Anna appealing to his sense of logic.

[Aedan7479]

So, the final chapter isn't out yet, but boy those backgrounds in the banner trailer! We've got eyes of Sauron everywhere! Also, Embla isn't a green unit. Here's hoping the script is the same quality.

[Etrurian emperor]

Wait so Elm really did die without fanfare a few chapters ago? A shame Embla didn't really react to it.

Veronica finally admitting she's friends with Alfonse and Sharena was nice.

[Sunwoo]

So apparently IS has some capacity of writing stuff that isn't completely shitty. It's too bad they stuffed it all into the last chapter and ended up with yet another rushed finale.

Letizia trying to usurp the throne from Veronica really should've had its own 13-chapter arc, and the Embla thing could've been book 7.

[DefyingFates]

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

So apparently IS has some capacity of writing stuff that isn't completely shitty.

It's weird seeing you compliment FE writing...

Anyway, I agree: taken in isolation, the flashbacks are really well written... but they would have been so much more effective if we'd gotten them earlier in the story, at the very least when she and Askr first appeared: being thrown in at the last second robs them of all their impact. At least Freyja was shown to care for the Alfar to some extent during the story so there was some precedent for her big sacrifice at the end, even though she kept acting like her vendetta against Freyr and humanity was more important (huh, that's just like Embla now that I think about it...)

But again, if you look at them as their own thing, the flashbacks were interesting.

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Veronica finally admitting she's friends with Alfonse and Sharena was nice.

Yeah, that was really wholesome and a nice ending. One a long time in the making too, IS really dragged that out xD I wonder if her people will be mad about it, since the reason she was so popular was because she was a warmonger. Also, while Veronica always gets roped into current Books, I wonder if the setup for Book 7 will be different since she'd (presumably) be an active participant in future adventures.

[Mercakete]

It was nice to see how the Askr-Embla split happened. It was also nice to get a bit more artwork. That said... Goodness. I had to think it over for a while, but here's how it basically broke down:

Embla: *ignores mortals forever*

Askr: Hey, mortals are cool! Come on, let's help them out; I know you'll like them!

Embla: Okay but I won't like it.

Embla: *begins to like the mortals*

Literally one idiot: *tries to actually kill a god*

Embla: That's it. I'm smiting everyone.

Elm: They'll just hate you if you do that.

Askr: Yeah, that's seriously a bad idea -- just accept that there will be good mortals and bad mortals. Enjoy the good and just do the best you can with the bad.

Embla: Askr, you just don't get it. Elm, I'll kill them even if they hate me because I'm sacrificing all of my bonds with them for this greater cause, possibly protecting ignorant Askr because they'll try to kill him (even though that's a very hard thing for mortals to do.)

Veronica: *relates?* Yeah, I shouldn't isolate myself because that really did not work out for Embla. Hey, Askrans, let's be friends.

Alfonse and Sharena: Yeah! =D

Xander: *also there for Bruno's kind-of-funeral*

Ash: Maybe dead? (Because she was in the Realm of Closure for so long.)

Elm: Maybe dead? (Because he was in the Realm of Openness for so long.)

So...yeah, it felt like IS had a lot they wanted to say but it came out kind of weird? Really, REALLY hoping we get a cutscene bringing closure (ha) to the Elm issue. I think we can all sort of assume Ash survived and is just living with the Askrans now like all the other ladies who join the barracks.

Now to read what other people wrote! =D

Hmm now that it was mentioned... Maybe Ascended Veronica will be our freebie for the new book. R.I.P. Bruno.

Also, I don't really get it. I personally feel like this chapter wasn't written so well, but some who usually dislike IS' writing in here liked it? Hrm. Confused. Not mad, just confused. And puzzled. Perplexed, even. Hrm.

[Etrurian emperor]

4 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Yeah, that was really wholesome and a nice ending. One a long time in the making too, IS really dragged that out xD I wonder if her people will be mad about it, since the reason she was so popular was because she was a warmonger. Also, while Veronica always gets roped into current Books, I wonder if the setup for Book 7 will be different since she'd (presumably) be an active participant in future adventures.

I assume she'll now officially join the gang and that she'll end up having to fight Anna and Sharena for screentime in the next book. Or she'll be the summoners next free waifu in the next book. 

Either way the cutscenes will likely feel very crowded in the next book.

[DefyingFates]

1 minute ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Either way the cutscenes will likely feel very crowded in the next book.

They gave Anna a model in the "Fjorm sings" short and left her out of the trailers that came after, so I don't think we have too much to worry about there 😛

[Lemmy]

The last chapter made more confused, before I had the feeling Embla was jealous that her people would abandon her and move to Askr, but this chapter gives me “why are you nurturing poison ivy” vibes. It doesn’t even seem to mesh with the blood curse she would later grant, and I would have preferred a flashback to the origins of that.

[Othin]

I'm also in the boat of finding this chapter to be kind of a mess. Some interesting stuff, but I don't think it was presented well.