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DefyingFates

Book VI Discussion Thread

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8 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

I didn't think of Henriette though; it'd be pretty interesting if she's a fairly close relative of the main Emblian royal family like Letizia was though it'd kill the Alfonse x Veronica ship that's taken off lately.

 

We had Azura x Corrin so I highly doubt that’ll stop the writers

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Just in case it hasn't made the rounds, I'd like to share some info with you all.

The "two more" quote has been proven to be a mistranslation. Embla only refers to two people with her blood in Japanese, and Bruno has a stunned silence look instead of saying "two more" as he did in English.

So yeah, it's just Veronica and Bruno. No others.

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4 hours ago, Sentinel07 said:

Just in case it hasn't made the rounds, I'd like to share some info with you all.

The "two more" quote has been proven to be a mistranslation. Embla only refers to two people with her blood in Japanese, and Bruno has a stunned silence look instead of saying "two more" as he did in English.

So yeah, it's just Veronica and Bruno. No others.

Bruno's not the one who said "two more," though. That was Embla.

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19 hours ago, Sentinel07 said:

Point still stands. Tybrosion's post contains what Embla actually said.

If it really is a typo, I hope IS fixes it so that it doesn't keep confusing the players.

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Someone refresh my memory, but Veronica's mom is the current empress, right?  Or did she die and I completely forgot about it?

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It turns out I was wrong, Letizia was the midpoint... hero and not Bruno. I'm sure he'll still be added, in the New Year's focus. My new prediction is that Embla and Super Veronica will be added together in November.

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Someone refresh my memory, but Veronica's mom is the current empress, right?  Or did she die and I completely forgot about it?

Veronica's mother is dead, she was the previous emperor's first wife and Embla's current ruler is his second wife. Bruno is Veronica's half-brother (of a different mother) and Letizia is the daughter of the emperor overthrown by Veronica's father I think.

Edited by Lightchao42

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3 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

Veronica's mother is dead, she was the previous emperor's first wife and Embla's current ruler is his second wife. Bruno is Veronica's half-brother (of a different mother) and Letizia is the daughter of the emperor overthrown by Veronica's father I think.

Veronica and Bruno share a blood bond through their father.  Embla mentioned two with her blood, so if it really is Veronica and Bruno, she miscounted (as their father should make three).  Unless Letizia and Veronica are related by blood in some other manner (through someone alive), something's weird.

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12 hours ago, eclipse said:

Someone refresh my memory, but Veronica's mom is the current empress, right?  Or did she die and I completely forgot about it?

This is correct; Veronica's mother is the current empress. She succeeded her husband when he died.

11 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

It turns out I was wrong, Letizia was the midpoint... hero and not Bruno. I'm sure he'll still be added, in the New Year's focus. My new prediction is that Embla and Super Veronica will be added together in November.

Veronica's mother is dead, she was the previous emperor's first wife and Embla's current ruler is his second wife. Bruno is Veronica's half-brother (of a different mother) and Letizia is the daughter of the emperor overthrown by Veronica's father I think.

Bruno's mother was the emperor's first wife, but she was banished. Veronica is the daughter of the emperor's second wife, and she's still alive, but the previous emperor is dead. Letizia's 16th (or so) in line for the throne, so she's a more distant relative. Her family used to have high standing, but their status and land was taken from them due to a coup that was discovered before it could be enacted. At the moment, I don't remember if this coup was actually her family's fault or if they were just blamed. A similar thing happened to Bruno and his mom. Family reunions are likely dangerous.

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On 6/8/2022 at 3:09 PM, Mercakete said:

Anyway, Henriette may be from an even weirder family line, given what hints we've seen. It wouldn't surprise me if she was Embla's actual daughter.

She would have white hair and red eyes in that case. This game's writing is not that (or at all) subtle.

On 6/8/2022 at 3:09 PM, Mercakete said:

they're descendants of Thrasir, the first Empress of Embla, and Embla herself only bestowed her power to Thrasir, which I guess also gave them her blood? Yeah, it doesn't make sense but whatever -- that's what's been established.)

Giving blood has been the way dragons bestow power to humans before in the series, for example in Jugdral.

Edited by Kori

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1 hour ago, Kori said:

She would have white hair and red eyes in that case. This game's writing is not that (or at all) subtle.

Not necessarily. A lot of that depends on the father and how the genes combined. For example, she could have gotten her somewhat normal physical health from her father, and her hair is blonde, though a darker blonde than Embla's. That said, I'm pretty sure it was confirmed that the thing with "two others" was confirmed a typo, so she's probably not actually their kid (or Embla would have actually noted her blood in Alfonse and Sharena.)

Quote

Giving blood has been the way dragons bestow power to humans before in the series, for example in Jugdral.

Doesn't make it any less weird.

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17 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Not necessarily. A lot of that depends on the father and how the genes combined. For example, she could have gotten her somewhat normal physical health from her father, and her hair is blonde, though a darker blonde than Embla's.

I'm saying that genes (real world biology) matter little in how FEH characters (fictional constructs) look, if she were Embla's daughter the writers would telegraph it by giving her the Embla hair and eye colors that Veronica, Bruno and Letizia all share, because that's how they work. The general concept of genetic heritage is floating around somewhere as an element of the FEH world, and gestured to vaguely when they want to use family abilities as a plot point, but ultimately, what part of that "genetic material" is expressed is the one they want for the story they want to tell.

(By that logic, if Henriette's heritage proves significant in any way, there's an interesting possibility that Sharena would inherit it but not Alfonse, but of course that would require them to do something with Sharena, and I'm not holding my breath for that.)

17 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Doesn't make it any less weird.

Or any weirder than if they could simply wave their hands and rewrite an human's abilities, like gods, when they're explicitly not. 🤷‍♀️ Blood carrying part of a being's essence, powers, and even in some cases memories, is an relatively well established concept in fantasy, and this not being biologically possible is just something you shrug and ignore as part of the genre conventions.

Edited by Kori

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10 hours ago, eclipse said:

Veronica and Bruno share a blood bond through their father.  Embla mentioned two with her blood, so if it really is Veronica and Bruno, she miscounted (as their father should make three).  Unless Letizia and Veronica are related by blood in some other manner (through someone alive), something's weird.

The emperor is dead, hence his wife being the current ruler, so I imagine Embla didn't count him.

2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Bruno's mother was the emperor's first wife, but she was banished. Veronica is the daughter of the emperor's second wife, and she's still alive, but the previous emperor is dead.

No, as mentioned before:

Quote

Anna: But hope reigned again when the crown went to his wife, the Empress, who had no dreams of conquest. Veronica is not her daughter, however, but rather that of his first wife—the previous Empress.

Bruno's mother was imprisoned and died in isolation, but the fact that Veronica wasn't banished like Bruno was indicates that she wasn't related to her, so she was probably a concubine.

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On 6/9/2022 at 5:13 AM, Sentinel07 said:

Just in case it hasn't made the rounds, I'd like to share some info with you all.

The "two more" quote has been proven to be a mistranslation. This was even analyzed in detail in the Phaedrus book, so as not to read too much you can find a free summary sample  https://freebooksummary.com/category/phaedrus on the resource. Embla only refers to two people with her blood in Japanese, and Bruno has a stunned silence look instead of saying "two more" as he did in English.

So yeah, it's just Veronica and Bruno. No others.

I also wondered about it and still agree that it was just Veronica and Bruno. No others. There must be a syntax error.

Edited by AnthonyLee

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Okay, not through all the chapters yet but OH MY GOSH there were some things dropped here.

First, as I expected, IS tried to surprise the player by having Embla take over Bruno instead of Veronica. Poor guy. We also learn that this dark, sealed-off space is bad for Askr. Saps his strength, etc. He even says so himself when -- surprise! (not that it wasn't obvious with Embla going on and on about how he wouldn't show up) -- Askr appears! He drives Embla out of Bruno (good for him!) and Embla...retreats. For some reason. Eh, maybe she's regrouping since she didn't expect Askr to actually show up. And so, we get to know Askr a little bit since the Askrans (plus Bruno and Veronica) are walking with him toward some sort of exit as we get invited to Askr's world. Have to say, I'm looking forward to seeing what that looks like.

Anyway, getting to know Askr...he's much more tempered and chill than I expected. I was expecting a hearty dumbbell, honestly, but he's very...FE-Lord-esque (but more chill.) That said, I can see where Ash gets her gift of gab. Looks like Askr can wander a bit aimlessly in his conversations sometimes, but opens up to people on a friendly and personal level pretty much immediately. He really personifies what he's a deity of: bonds and openness (also the sky, which also matches his head-in-the-clouds way of going about conversations.) He also apparently met Lif during a nap in a field (reminds me a bit of Forde. Also, Robin was asleep in a field, but for entirely different reasons. They could start a club.) Even though it's not much, it's nice to learn a little bit about how the country dragons met their human friends.

Askr is also very open (again, matching his theme), treating everyone with the same level of curiosity and friendliness as his own people, to the point of being completely kind and chummy with Bruno (and presumably Veronica) despite his blood ties to Askr's (im)mortal enemy. Heck, he doesn't even treat Embla herself that badly, though he does recognize her destructive behavior (so, he's not stupid, just chill, which is nice.) He even says he has an equal interest in Askr's people and Embla's. Chill sky bull. He's not overbearing, either, which is also very, very nice, and is proven by how he handles what caused me to start writing this early.

Bruno finally removes his mask. For one, we get to see Bruno's eyes (FINALLY) but this is also somewhat alarming since with everyone being all "Yay! We're all together again and all united and everything's great!" plus Bruno's mask coming off, you just KNOW IS is about to kill off our now-unmasked friend. Much of his personal stuff is resolved right now, after all, despite the driving point of being cursed with Embla's blood, which will probably not be resolved until the end of the book at the very least. (On the upside, this will probably make him summonable.) I also find it interesting that his eyes are purple, rather than the typical Emblian royalty red eyes. This may have something to do with his mother's line. Maybe she was Askran? Blue is a significant color for Askr, after all, being the color of their power (the gates they open, the light that comes from the gems in Alfonse's sword, the halo behind Askr's head, and the color of the glowing ballistics gel that makes up part of undead Alfonse from another world), Askr's main color, one of the main colors of their country's flags, and an eye/hair color passed down through Lif's (first Askran king) bloodline. And, red combined with blue makes purple: Bruno's eye color.

I also just love that the only thing people had to do to get Bruno to remove his mask was to ask him nicely to remove his mask. Like...all this time, someone just had to ask. Kind of hilarious, given how big a mystery what his actual face looked like was (to me, anyway, and probably to others, too.)

Anyway, IS will do what IS will do, regardless of whatever patterns they've previously set up. We know Veronica gets an ascended form with Embla's power because of the midpoint trailer. HOWEVER I think it would be really cool if Bruno also got an ascended form with Embla's power. Now, I don't think this will happen. But it would be cool, and then IS could design an entirely new look for maskless Bruno.

Anyway, I'll keep going through the story now, but after Bruno's eyes reveal, I just had to get writing. X3 Here we go! Onward to ch9 part 4!

Elllm! He's back! =D Also, he mentioned Lady Embla resting. It could be that she's very much not at full power yet, despite any pretense she may have given.

Ahh, Askr and Embla both are sharper than I gave them credit for. After retreating she entered Veronica. Nice twist! After all, whether the player expected Bruno to be taken over or not, the player was lulled into a false sense of scurity, and the guard was dropped for the second twist... Nice! And Askr caught on before going back to his realm (this may be why he didn't open a gate immediately -- so that he could test Bruno and Veronica to see if Embla was hiding in one of them) and before telling the secret to defeating Embla. Way to go, sky bull! I'm also impressed that Ash managed to curb her long-windedness in the face of the situation they were in. Well done, holy cow! Aaaand we get to see ascended Veronica already! Nice -- she looks good! Also, older. Guess this was a good opportunity for IS to age her up. She's also holding a red version of Letizia's tome (which we already knew about from the trailer) and we may or may not learn more about one or both in the coming chapter(s). It would not surprise me if the tome Letizia wielded belonged to Thrasir (the first empress of Embla) since its construct looks the same as ascended Veronica's. I have to wonder when Ascended Veronica will be summonable... Maybe IS will kill her after all, and give rulership of Embla to Bruno. I could see that happening, since Bruno was shown to have the trust of all kinds of Emblians during the first half of the book. Askr even comments on how he sees how Bruno resembles Thrasir (ancestor). So, they may or may not be leading up to it. And while it is possible, I just don't think both siblings will manage to survive to the next book. It could even be that Veronica is about to be killed when Bruno sacrifices himself in the end. Again, it would not surprise me.

But it looks like we'll be appearing in Askr's realm next! Yay! I wonder what it looks like... That was a good chapter!

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6 hours ago, Mercakete said:

He even says so himself when -- surprise! (not that it wasn't obvious with Embla going on and on about how he wouldn't show up) -- Askr appears!

Still, it does say a lot that he'd personally intervene even with the risk to himself. That's quite the establishing moment, not to mention the way he endeared himself to everyone.

6 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Ahh, Askr and Embla both are sharper than I gave them credit for. After retreating she entered Veronica. Nice twist!

I liked how Askr knew it was her too, and I guess this is what she was actually doing when Elm said she was "resting". Whether or not he was in on the trick remains to be seen, given how... obsessed he is with her (I wouldn't blame her for keeping him at arm's length).

As for Bruno's death flags, his tome got upgraded but Veronica's didn't, so if they are going to do the "make an OC playable right after they're killed off" thing again... well, they've already laid the groundwork for it. I liked the unmasking scene, but does anyone else think his face looks kinda... small or bland? I don't know, he doesn't look as detailed as any of the other OCs.

A fine enough chapter though, and as Mercakete said, I'm curious to see what Askr's realm looks like! I didn't expect we'd actually go straight there!!

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51 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

As for Bruno's death flags, his tome got upgraded but Veronica's didn't, so if they are going to do the "make an OC playable right after they're killed off" thing again... well, they've already laid the groundwork for it. I liked the unmasking scene, but does anyone else think his face looks kinda... small or bland? I don't know, he doesn't look as detailed as any of the other OCs.

Maybe Veronica's didn't have an upgrade because she is going to have an Ascended version. He could die, sure, but I think this update to his tome is more of an indication that he's not getting an Ascended version.

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4 hours ago, Rinco said:

Maybe Veronica's didn't have an upgrade because she is going to have an Ascended version. He could die, sure, but I think this update to his tome is more of an indication that he's not getting an Ascended version.

Ah, fair enough. It seems like a giveaway that he's going to be playable in some form though. I wonder if he'll keep the mask then though, or if that's the price he pays for the updated tome.

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12 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Still, it does say a lot that he'd personally intervene even with the risk to himself. That's quite the establishing moment, not to mention the way he endeared himself to everyone.

I liked how Askr knew it was her too, and I guess this is what she was actually doing when Elm said she was "resting". Whether or not he was in on the trick remains to be seen

Oh for sure. I implied that, but it's nice that you pointed it out in more detail. 🙂

Quote

As for Bruno's death flags, his tome got upgraded but Veronica's didn't, so if they are going to do the "make an OC playable right after they're killed off" thing again... well, they've already laid the groundwork for it. I liked the unmasking scene, but does anyone else think his face looks kinda... small or bland? I don't know, he doesn't look as detailed as any of the other OCs.

Good insight on the tome. From a story point of view, it could be just that Embla gave him a little boost since she didn't want to be possessing someone too weak. But didn't Veronica's tome get a boost somewhere in the first half of the book, too?

As for Bruno's face, I actually thought he looked nice. Like, he had a much gentler look than I was expecting.

Quote

I'm curious to see what Askr's realm looks like! I didn't expect we'd actually go straight there!!

It made sense that they would retreat from a logical point of view, but it's true that we tend to spend a lot of time running around unnecessarily. He's the deity that can open gates, though, so it makes sense for him to be able to exit whenever he'd like to. I wonder if they got Bruno to close the gate behind them, though, since closing gates is an Emblian power. Or maybe Embla just hates Askr's realm/maybe it weakens her like how her realm weakens him.

My guess is that this place will be bright with a big, open sky. Maybe even mostly sky that everyone's floating around in! That said, it could also be wide, open fields. Maybe that beginning of a story Askr was starting to tell was a hint as to what his realm is like: a wide, open sky and wide, open grazing pasture fields. After all, Askr said he was "laying in a field" when he met Lif. Presumably, Askr was in his own realm at the time (though he could have been in Midgard.) We can see a sky behind Ash through the doorway she stands in in the key art, too, and Askr is the sky god.

I really hope we get some sort of neat reaction out of the Askrans! They were kind of quiet about meeting Askr when he was introduced, but maybe they were just kind of stunned. It could be kind of surreal for them. Alfonse seems to be kind of happy about it, though, at least. Maaaaan I hope we get Ascended Alfonse!

11 hours ago, Rinco said:

Maybe Veronica's didn't have an upgrade because she is going to have an Ascended version. He could die, sure, but I think this update to his tome is more of an indication that he's not getting an Ascended version.

Good thoughts!

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I wonder if Veronica being hit by Embla's puberty beam isn't partially to ensure she can be paired up with Alfonse without it being awkward. Its clearly a ship they've been setting up for a while with only the steep age difference standing in the way. Now that Ascended Veronica is seemingly aged up that's no longer a problem.

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19 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I wonder if Veronica being hit by Embla's puberty beam isn't partially to ensure she can be paired up with Alfonse without it being awkward. Its clearly a ship they've been setting up for a while with only the steep age difference standing in the way. Now that Ascended Veronica is seemingly aged up that's no longer a problem.

I don't think it was as sudden an aging up in story as the character art shows. Remember, it's been many years since Book 1 by now (both in our world and in theirs.) It's just that they've been using the same art for the characters for all this time. So, it's more like everyone was maturing over time (easier to notice in the trailers than in the character art) but the art, of course, jumps from one age to the next. I think that Alfonse is canonically only 2 years or so older than Veronica. (I believe he was only 14 in book 1.)

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23 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

As for Bruno's death flags, his tome got upgraded but Veronica's didn't, so if they are going to do the "make an OC playable right after they're killed off" thing again... well, they've already laid the groundwork for it. I liked the unmasking scene, but does anyone else think his face looks kinda... small or bland? I don't know, he doesn't look as detailed as any of the other OCs.

Even though Valaskjalf got upgraded, it's still far too weak in comparison to contemporary weapons to be his weapon if he becomes playable. Even if high-HP Vantage is a neat effect, his weapon is only on par with weapons from 2 years ago (i.e. right before CYL 4 established the baseline for contemporary weapons; compare with Kris's weapons).

If he becomes playable anytime soon, he'll need yet another upgrade to his weapon or a really damned good exclusive skill to make up for how outdated his new weapon is.

 

His face looks so empty without his mask on. There's so much empty space on it. I feel so lost.

 

I like Veronica's new art. I'm a huge sucker for that particular type of smooth, glossy texture used for the top of her dress that has a "half specular" at an angle that you normally don't get a reflection from. I'm not sure if there's a real-life material with that texture, but I've always interpreted it as "stiff silk".

The sleeves blending into the pauldrons and really just all of the gold parts also look great. Gold on black just looks really good.

I'm still trying to decide what I think about her hair. I prefer long hair, but long hair would definitely get in the way of the design of the dress, so I think it's better as it is. I like how it's still an unruly mess even when it's this short.

 

Comparing Veronica's arts also made me realize why Brave Veronica had always looked weird to me. The hair that normally falls in front of her shoulders is pulled behind her shoulders in her Brave version's art, which makes it look like something is missing.

Also, short Veronica's vertical proportions just look really weird in Kozaki's art. My super-out-of-date-as-all-get-out anatomy reference book from 70 years ago puts an 8-year-old at 6 and a half heads, and while the anime art style typically draws girls up to a half head shorter proportionally than in real life, Kozaki's short Veronica being less than 5 and a half heads tall is kind of pushing it a lot. New Veronica is 6 heads tall, which looks much better (plus, her skirt goes all the way to the floor and fully conceals her legs, which makes it harder to notice odd proportions, even if they did exist). For comparison, Spring Veronica and Valentine Veronica are both about 6 heads tall. Harmonized Veronica is somewhere between 5 and a half and 6 heads tall.

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On 7/20/2022 at 10:00 AM, Mercakete said:

I don't think it was as sudden an aging up in story as the character art shows. Remember, it's been many years since Book 1 by now (both in our world and in theirs.) It's just that they've been using the same art for the characters for all this time. So, it's more like everyone was maturing over time (easier to notice in the trailers than in the character art) but the art, of course, jumps from one age to the next. I think that Alfonse is canonically only 2 years or so older than Veronica. (I believe he was only 14 in book 1.)

I think 2- or 3-year difference is about accurate. She's 13 to start in Book 1 and while Alfonse isn't confirmed I doubt he's any older then 16 as most lords tend to land around that age and Lif shows that he still has a lot of room to grow. So even at the biggest difference between them it's probably not any worse than three years, though I do think them giving her new artwork is because we're probably at a point in the story where she can realistically start looking older.

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To carry on from @jameslove001's point here : (BIG Chapter 10 Spoilers)

Spoiler

...yeah, we all absolutely knew how this chapter was going to end (why else would Askr be playable so quickly) and the chapter itself wasn't subtle about it at all, but I still got some feels out of the ending too. The writing is still the same as ever, but the fact that Askr was so darn likable and open with everyone (befitting his name), as well as the fact that wasn't an abusive mother or evil waifu dying but instead someone who was doing his best and just wanted a moment with someone he considered his daughter before the end... yeah, that was a good scene all things considered. Poor Ash too, trying to stay formal throughout it all until the very end!

As for the rest of the chapter, it's actually genius that the God of Openness' domain is Yggdrasil and I liked the references to Audhumla too. I think this is our first time with a change from the talking portraits perspective during cutscenes too. I know no one thought Veronica was actually going to die, but giving such a detailed description of how the "key" works really took all the stakes out of what we can assume would have been a big fight.

On the other hand, not telling us something this specific ahead of time may have made it feel like a deus ex machina instead, so fair enough. Also, if anyone was put off by Bruno's face before, did this chapter change your opinion? I don't know if I just got used to it or if it was changed slightly in the new update, but Bruno's features didn't feel as "narrow" to me this time. (Though it's not like I had any big problems with his look before either, so maybe it was just the former.)

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Daddy Askr’s send off would be sad if not for the fact that he’ll be back for a New Year’s and/or Summer alt (probably both).

Though if it’s any consolation, Elm is probably gonna die in the next chapter (for the same reason that Askr did). That, and September is a known killer of secondary antagonists (like Laegjarn, Helbindi, Thrasir, Plumeria, and Otr).

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