What are some mechanical roles we don't often see filled?

[AnonymousSpeed]

I suppose that's something of a broad question, but let me provide some examples to hopefully clarify.

One of the most obvious examples of "mechanical roles" is shown with classes. Myrmidons double enemies at one range, armor knights tank hits, clerics have staff utility, etc. Of course, what those roles mean and how they manifest can change depending on the game. Armors are more useful if their defense is much higher than normal, while Thracia offers far more staves with more abilities than other games.

Weapon types can fill mechanical roles. Hidden Weapons fill a mechanical niche, debuffing enemies while not necessarily being effective on their own. Combat support, in some sense. Specific weapons can do so as well, like how the glass weapons in Awakening are powerful early on buy highly limited.

Characters can fill mechanical roles- Jeigans are an obvious examples of individual units that have specific purposes which other members of their class might not. Sometimes you get an armor knight with a bunch of speed, which gives them a different mechanical role than most other armor knights.

Whatever the exactly mechanical role is or how it manifests, what hasn't been done in Fire Emblem that much, if at all? In other words, what is a tool (in some broad sense) which the games could theoretically give players? Go as specific or general as you like with these notions. Just give me something fresh.

EDIT: A decent explanation might be anything where you think to yourself, "hey, why don't we have a thing that does this already?"

Edited December 9, 2021 by AnonymousSpeed

[vanguard333]

Outside of the ballisticians in the Archanea games (Shadow Dragon and Mystery of the Emblem), there haven't been any examples of mobile physical long-range artillery. We often see FE games have 3-10 range spells that can be used by mages for damaging an enemy from a safe distance, but we don't see physical-damage versions of that.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I really like the subdue combat art in Shadows of Valentia and think that could be a broader mechanic. Particularly as something your jagens can do in order to allow them to set up kills for your other units. Three Houses made it a mastery bonus on the lord class, meaning three units could potentially nab it, though none of them particularly want it since they're not looking at sword based classes long term. Subdue has really been held back by being locked to Lord characters who want exp as much as anybody else. Give it to the Jagens or just make it an early generic combat art that anybody can learn.

This probably goes beyond the scope of this topic, but I'd attempt to have the "Subdue" idea expanded into a game's core design. Within your usual weapon types you could have less lethal options (like a training sword, thunder spell, or the majority of guantlet weapons) that have lower stats but result in knocking out opponents rather than killing them. Maybe the objective demands you not kill the enemy commander, or letting enemies live lets you gain favor with a certain character or faction, branching the story a bit. Or just be the crux of some reputation mechanic that has benefits and drawbacks for being good or evil. It Could facilitate bringing back the capture mechanic as well. Allowing you to steal their items, but then prompt you on whether you want to let them go, ransom them back for some extra gold, or execute them if you're allowed to put that option in a nintendo game. Imagine having a role playing decision in fire emblem that doesn't involve marriage. 

 

[Eltosian Kadath]

One that comes to mind that would be rather interesting would be terrain modification. Now this would have to be within reason, but being able to entrench your space to create defensive terrain, or destroying defensive terrain that you have captured like chopping down a forest space, demolishing a fort (stopping reinforcements from it, and converting it to a less defensive "Ruins" terrain type) etc.

Another game with Capture would also be fun as well...honesyly I am fine with either of Thracia's version or Fates, as they are both interesting.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

One that comes to mind that would be rather interesting would be terrain modification. Now this would have to be within reason, but being able to entrench your space to create defensive terrain, or destroying defensive terrain that you have captured like chopping down a forest space, demolishing a fort (stopping reinforcements from it, and converting it to a less defensive "Ruins" terrain type) etc.

This could be neat! How about an Ice Mage that freezes water tiles, making them traversable to infantry classes?

4 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I really like the subdue combat art in Shadows of Valentia and think that could be a broader mechanic. Particularly as something your jagens can do in order to allow them to set up kills for your other units. Three Houses made it a mastery bonus on the lord class, meaning three units could potentially nab it, though none of them particularly want it since they're not looking at sword based classes long term. Subdue has really been held back by being locked to Lord characters who want exp as much as anybody else. Give it to the Jagens or just make it an early generic combat art that anybody can learn.

This appears to be what they were going for with the Mercy skill in Radiant Dawn, but it came at the least convenient time possible. I wonder, would Mercy have been better if it came earlier, on someone like Sothe or Titania?

That said, I think the most notable use for this kind of art comes in Shadows of Valentia - by subduing Delthea, you can keep her alive while halting her attacks.

9 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

A decent explanation might be anything where you think to yourself, "hey, why don't we have a thing that does this already?"

How about another "FE6 Merlinus" type? For one, I think the notion of linking the Convoy to a particular (non-Lord) unit is a cool one. Second, the ability to "die, but come back" is a really great one. It allows him to function as a "lure" unit that can draw in foes on enemy phase. Either of these powers would be great to see return. The one change I'd like to see is for a neo-Merlinus to gain meaningful experience and stats - maybe in an FE7 style (by surviving the map), or perhaps interacting with the Convoy could itself grant EXP (up to a certain per-map limit).

[Jotari]

Title should be "we don't often fill", not "we don't often filled". "aren't often filled" is acceptable too.

Grammar aside, Armoured Mages is a mechanical role the series has never attempted to fill. Even in Jugdral Barons are just master of all bosses. But tanky mages? Yeah that's just not a thing in Fire Emblem. Sometimes they make dark mages slightly bulkier, but a magic unit that can take physical attacks is basically unheard of in the series. We have pegasus knights as physically offensive units that are magically resistant, the opposite, magically offensive units that are defensively resistant would be great. It'd also help make the magic triangle people like despite it being useless actually useful. As the way to take down an armoured mage would with a magic user meaning magic triangle actually makes a difference as it's not always involving units with resistance so high that it makes no difference. Plus, armoured mages are just cool.

[AnonymousSpeed]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Title should be

Whoops. Sorry, fixed that.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

15 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Whoops. Sorry, fixed that.

I think when I originally responded, my mind must've filled in "see" in the title. I didn't notice anything amiss until Jotari pointed as much out.

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Grammar aside, Armoured Mages is a mechanical role the series has never attempted to fill. Even in Jugdral Barons are just master of all bosses. But tanky mages? Yeah that's just not a thing in Fire Emblem. Sometimes they make dark mages slightly bulkier, but a magic unit that can take physical attacks is basically unheard of in the series. We have pegasus knights as physically offensive units that are magically resistant, the opposite, magically offensive units that are defensively resistant would be great. It'd also help make the magic triangle people like despite it being useless actually useful. As the way to take down an armoured mage would with a magic user meaning magic triangle actually makes a difference as it's not always involving units with resistance so high that it makes no difference. Plus, armoured mages are just cool.

FE4 Barons are such lazy fucks. Instead of giving bosses variable classes based on their preferred weapon type, they make nearly every gate-sitter a Baron and call it a day.

That said, Iron Mages would be a welcome addition, either as an independent classline or a potential promotion for Mages or Armor Knights. Three Houses could've done this (the main game gave us mage cavalry, while the DLC introduced flying mages), but they seemingly decided that Armor classes and Axes had to be joined at the hip. But yeah, "physically bulky mage who is slow and vulnerable to other Mages" definitely piques my interest.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Whoops. Sorry, fixed that.

All you credibility in relation to arguments about education has just been lost.

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

FE4 Barons are such lazy fucks. Instead of giving bosses variable classes based on their preferred weapon type, they make nearly every gate-sitter a Baron and call it a day.

I'm still 80% sure in my mind that Langbolt is actually a castle locked great knight despite repeatedly checking and knowing he's actually a Baron. Something just screams Great Knight about him in my mind.

[AnonymousSpeed]

54 minutes ago, Jotari said:

All you credibility in relation to arguments about education has just been lost.

I went to public school (a good public school by most ratings), got a degree in mathematics, and made the dean's list each semester. If anything, my illiteracy only proves my point. Or proves that I need to proof-read more thoroughly, which has been a recurring problem for me.

Edited December 9, 2021 by AnonymousSpeed

[lenticular]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

Armoured Mages is a mechanical role the series has never attempted to fill. Even in Jugdral Barons are just master of all bosses. But tanky mages? Yeah that's just not a thing in Fire Emblem. Sometimes they make dark mages slightly bulkier, but a magic unit that can take physical attacks is basically unheard of in the series. We have pegasus knights as physically offensive units that are magically resistant, the opposite, magically offensive units that are defensively resistant would be great. It'd also help make the magic triangle people like despite it being useless actually useful. As the way to take down an armoured mage would with a magic user meaning magic triangle actually makes a difference as it's not always involving units with resistance so high that it makes no difference. Plus, armoured mages are just cool.

I'm not sure how I would feel about that. I agree that armoured mages are cool, but I don't think they'd be particularly fun to use. Having pegasus knights be a hard counter to magic units is fine because only a minority of units in Fire Emblem use magic. Having a unit type that is effectively a hard counter to physical damage units seems like it would trivialise a whole lot of situations, and lead to more situations of "just send in your armoured mage and then watch everyone suicide on enemy phase" which the series has been trying to move away from.

It would certainly be possible to balance them, either by lowering their stats or by making enemy mages and hammerers more common, but I'm not sure it would be possible to balance them in a way that left them still feeling fun and useful and didn't also have negative aspects on other aspects of game balance. But it would be nice if they could, because I do like the concept.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, lenticular said:

I'm not sure how I would feel about that. I agree that armoured mages are cool, but I don't think they'd be particularly fun to use. Having pegasus knights be a hard counter to magic units is fine because only a minority of units in Fire Emblem use magic. Having a unit type that is effectively a hard counter to physical damage units seems like it would trivialise a whole lot of situations, and lead to more situations of "just send in your armoured mage and then watch everyone suicide on enemy phase" which the series has been trying to move away from.

It would certainly be possible to balance them, either by lowering their stats or by making enemy mages and hammerers more common, but I'm not sure it would be possible to balance them in a way that left them still feeling fun and useful and didn't also have negative aspects on other aspects of game balance. But it would be nice if they could, because I do like the concept.

Or just leave them as a broken class. Like we already have wyverns which have historically managed to be good at basically everything except Res. If Wyverns didn't exist and Pegasi were the only flying unit, the notion of a defense focused flying unit would have similar "but that would be way too good" objections. And yeah, wyverns kind of are too good. But you typically only get two or three per game (typically). Like they are absurd in Three Houses, but honestly the most absurd thing is that you put any one in the class. They have historically been pretty great in most games. And if they're going to continue the Three Houses's route of making magic you have a certain amount of charges per map, then that puts a very natural nerf on armoured mages. You can't reasonably have them enemy phase the whole map if they can only attack ten or twelve times before running out of spells to use.

2 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I went to public school (a good public school by most ratings), got a degree in mathematics, and made the dean's list each semester. If anything, my illiteracy only proves my point. Or proves that I need to proof-read more thoroughly, which has been a recurring problem for me.

A mathematics degree? I've seen you're Iron Man results that beg to differ.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Jotari

[lenticular]

32 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Or just leave them as a broken class. Like we already have wyverns which have historically managed to be good at basically everything except Res. If Wyverns didn't exist and Pegasi were the only flying unit, the notion of a defense focused flying unit would have similar "but that would be way too good" objections. And yeah, wyverns kind of are too good. But you typically only get two or three per game (typically). Like they are absurd in Three Houses, but honestly the most absurd thing is that you put any one in the class. They have historically been pretty great in most games. And if they're going to continue the Three Houses's route of making magic you have a certain amount of charges per map, then that puts a very natural nerf on armoured mages. You can't reasonably have them enemy phase the whole map if they can only attack ten or twelve times before running out of spells to use.

That's certainly one option. I agree that it would fit better in an old-style "everyone has a specific class" type of game than a new-style "reclassing for all!" type of game. You make a fair point about Wyverns. Radiant Dawn Haar (as an obvious example) is a great unit, but there's only one of him. Plus, thinking about it some more, even in a game with completely free reclassing, it would still be possible to add an overpowered class to be a lord's personal class. Why, hello there, Edelgard, how nice to see you here.

[Jotari]

9 minutes ago, lenticular said:

That's certainly one option. I agree that it would fit better in an old-style "everyone has a specific class" type of game than a new-style "reclassing for all!" type of game. You make a fair point about Wyverns. Radiant Dawn Haar (as an obvious example) is a great unit, but there's only one of him. Plus, thinking about it some more, even in a game with completely free reclassing, it would still be possible to add an overpowered class to be a lord's personal class. Why, hello there, Edelgard, how nice to see you here.

With armoured mages you're also combining what's generally considered a very good class (magic users, broadly speaking) with a generally bad class (armoured knights). So they probably wouldn't actually be that broken. With the advantage of armoured knights defense, they also gain their weakness. Namely reduced movement, making it hard to actually get to places and do the whole tanking and damaging thing, but, even worse for them, reduced speed, which means no doubling and even getting doubled. Mages are power houses, but they still depend very heavily on doubling to take out enemies in Fire Emblem, relying on their 1-2 range to do that safely. If a mage has low speed and high defense, they'll be able to dole out decent attacks, but securing one round kills won't be their bread and butter (and this means they'll also fall behind on the exp game even if they're seeing a lot of combat, as they'd be the unit who tanks the enemy's counter to deal chip damage before someone else finishes them off). One thing armoured mages would do, however, is make actual armoured knights obsolete, as there's nothing an armoured knight could do that an armoured mage couldn't do without getting creative with skills or something.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Jotari

[AnonymousSpeed]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

A mathematics degree? I've seen you're Iron Man results that beg to differ.

>you are Iron Man

Damn, you found out.

Look man, I studied calculus, not Clausewitz. Besides, how could I calculate that there were going to be ambush spawns?

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

One thing armoured mages would do, however, is make actual armoured knights obsolete, as there's nothing an armoured knight could do that an armoured mage couldn't do without getting creative with skills or something.

You could let regular armors have higher defense (or just higher stats in general).

[indigoasis]

One of my favorites classes in the series is the Master Knight, the "jack-of-all-trades, master of none" class from FE4. I've always loved the idea for it: a mid to late-game (or mid to late-generation), borderline character exclusive class (literally only two playable characters in the series have access to it: Lachesis and Leif) that grants them use to every weapon type in the game, essentially allowing the player to give them almost whatever role they want while still allowing the flexibility to switch their role, to an extent. Conceptually, it's absolutely busted, but it's held back by it's extreme rarity and difficulty in actually allowing the class to switch roles on the fly (inventory management in FE4 is absolutely garbage).

I would personally love to see something like the Master Knight class show up again. It's a shame it's only ever been in one game. 

16 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

One that comes to mind that would be rather interesting would be terrain modification. Now this would have to be within reason, but being able to entrench your space to create defensive terrain, or destroying defensive terrain that you have captured like chopping down a forest space, demolishing a fort (stopping reinforcements from it, and converting it to a less defensive "Ruins" terrain type) etc.

Oh, I like this idea. It sounds kind of like the Dragon Veins from Fates, but more practical and "open to the public," if that makes sense (meaning that every unit can use that feature, not just royals).

[joevar]

something that inflict poison or equivalent maybe? its a major headache for player when enemies manage to use it, but when player get hold of it, its equivalent to wasting turn when you can just kill it in one turn. (since the poison takes effect the next turn)

as for class related,... i dunno. any advance class ambiguous role can be traced back to their basic class which imo very well defined in each game. that left the unique class

terrain roles come to mind, but rather than not filled, more like not expanded when they could. and when they do, its so restricted you can forget it, i think

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, indigoasis said:

One of my favorites classes in the series is the Master Knight, the "jack-of-all-trades, master of none" class from FE4. I've always loved the idea for it: a mid to late-game (or mid to late-generation), borderline character exclusive class (literally only two playable characters in the series have access to it: Lachesis and Leif) that grants them use to every weapon type in the game, essentially allowing the player to give them almost whatever role they want while still allowing the flexibility to switch their role, to an extent. Conceptually, it's absolutely busted, but it's held back by it's extreme rarity and difficulty in actually allowing the class to switch roles on the fly (inventory management in FE4 is absolutely garbage).

I would personally love to see something like the Master Knight class show up again. It's a shame it's only ever been in one game. 

Oh, I like this idea. It sounds kind of like the Dragon Veins from Fates, but more practical and "open to the public," if that makes sense (meaning that every unit can use that feature, not just royals).

Dark Knight and Holy Knight essentially are this in Three Houses.

10 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

how could I calculate that there were going to be ambush spawns?

So you've never heard of Schrödinger?

Edited December 10, 2021 by Jotari

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

Staffs that apply buffs, essentially a Rally for Lena & Other Healers Inc.

... a visual representation of the order in which enemies attack? That could end up being rather useful for planning.

Weapons that improve skill activation.

Dedicated Rally Class - increasing range, increasing power, increasing time the effects lasts for example.

 

Bring back Replicate. 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

10 hours ago, indigoasis said:

One of my favorites classes in the series is the Master Knight, the "jack-of-all-trades, master of none" class from FE4. I've always loved the idea for it: a mid to late-game (or mid to late-generation), borderline character exclusive class (literally only two playable characters in the series have access to it: Lachesis and Leif) that grants them use to every weapon type in the game, essentially allowing the player to give them almost whatever role they want while still allowing the flexibility to switch their role, to an extent. Conceptually, it's absolutely busted, but it's held back by it's extreme rarity and difficulty in actually allowing the class to switch roles on the fly (inventory management in FE4 is absolutely garbage).

I'd actually call the class "Master of all trades, jack of none". It has a a coveted A rank in all weapon and magic types, save for Light and Dark. Plus, built-in Pursuit in a game where that's a matter of limited acess. Their two "weaknesses" are coming from a mediocre class in Prince(ss), and that neither of its users get a legendary weapon. That said, literally any other character in the game (save for the Dancers) would be improved by trading in their existing class (or promotion) for Master Knight.

13 hours ago, Jotari said:

One thing armoured mages would do, however, is make actual armoured knights obsolete, as there's nothing an armoured knight could do that an armoured mage couldn't do without getting creative with skills or something.

Classic armors would still be better against high-res, low-def units, like Pegasus Knights or most staff-users. Or in cases where the enemy has anti-magic tools, like Silence or a Magic Seal.

14 hours ago, Jotari said:

A mathematics degree? I've seen you're Iron Man results that beg to differ.

As a math major in my own right, I can confirm that studying math has nothing to do with math. At a certain point, you stop using numbers and have to navigate a minefield of Greek letters.

1 hour ago, Imuabicus said:

Staffs that apply buffs, essentially a Rally for Lena & Other Healers Inc.

This would be cool. "Barrier/Ward" and "Pure Water" are series standards at this point, but staves or consumables that provide a temporary stat boost in any area outside Resistance are a rarity at best.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Dedicated Rally Class - increasing range, increasing power, increasing time the effects lasts for example.

That's something I've also wanted to see for a while. Basically since Awakening introduced the idea really.

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Dedicated Rally Class - increasing range, increasing power, increasing time the effects lasts for example.

Here's a copypasted old post & idea I threw together in like an hour spur of the moment specifically for 3H once.:

Spoiler

Lord seems like it'd be an inherently good class for a dedicated cheerleader, in part because Etrian Odyssey has made it a dedicated buffing class in the past for me. But also because 3H Lord naturally has Charm as a class passive, as do all of EDCs' personal classes. And what defines a "lord"?  Being in a position of authority over others and able to issue orders over others.

The issue is Lord is a restricted class, and everyone who could be one (barring maybe Yuri?) have great combat stats and would rather stab than rally. So what to do about non-main characters? I present three options for the rallying classes' theme:

• Military Ranks
  • Lieutenant (Intermediate) > Brigadier (Advanced) > Commandant (Master)
  • The names indicate the individual has ranking authority and is permitted to issue others over others. Orders that force stat boosts on allies.
• Entertainers
  • Bard (Intermediate) > Troubadour (Advanced) > Oratorio (Master)
  • Makes singers distinct from dancers in FE and 3H specifically. Their peppy words raising stats instead of giving more actions.
  • Oratorio is a piece of music, not a musician, but don't you agree the word sounds really grandiose?
• Military Minds
  • Tactician > Strategist > Grandmaster
  • Copies Robin's old class, with Strategist as the in-between because strategy is bigger picture than tactics (and it's also a Fates class).

Now to flesh out the Military Ranks idea in the style of 3H because I like it.:

Spoiler

Shared Features of All Three Classes

• High Charm and a +2/3 Authority boost are provided to all three of Lieutenant, Brigadier, and Commandant
• Gambits are also issuing orders, hence the bonuses to them.
• Gambits have limited charges, unlike dancing and the charges are more limited than spells. So Rallying all the time with the occasional Gambit or round of combat would be the norm with this class line.

Lieutenant:

• Infantry
• Examination Requirements:
  • Swords C
  • Authority C+ 
• Skill Levels:
  • Swords are the rich person's weapon historically, and spears and axes were for the non-elite. But then we're just looking at Lord again, is that alright?
  • Perhaps a +1 to Swords, Lances, and Bows for Lieutenant? (And +2 Authority.)
    • This would show training in a variety of weapons, permissible for an elite soldier.
    • And no one wanting to have a big offense would want to practice in three weapon types, it'd dilute the skill training a tad too much.
• Stats are kept very average/mediocre everywhere outside of Charm.
  • This would neuter Lieutenant in any specialized role other than Rallying and Gambits.
• Abilities:
  • Rally Range +1: Rallies can be applied to allies 2 spaces away from the user.
  • Charm
• Mastered Ability: Command & Conquer- When using a Gambit, applies all Rallies equipped to this unit to allies within 2 spaces, excluding the user.
• Lord gets buffed to include Rally Range +1 to match this class. And maybe halved magic uses to give it another reason to still exist other than Resistance +2 and Subdue.

Brigadier:

• Infantry
  • Historically, we've had images of glorious commanders on horseback and or dressed in sumptuous armor.
  • But, we should not obsolete the already lousy Fortress Knight and Great Knight!
  • Since Armor is irredeemable, I keep this Infantry instead.
  • 5 Move is a mistake for a fully promoted infantry unit, 4 is a terrible error, 3H goofed here. But, I'll keep this class at 5.
• Examination Ranks:
  • Bows C
  • Authority A
• Has halved magic uses. Studying the textbooks have lead to coincidental learning of the basics of magic.
• Skill Levels:
  • +3 Bow, +1 Reason, +1 Faith. +3 Authority.
  • The Brigadier has retired from the frontline, so it doesn't need Sword and Lance training.
• Stats:
  • Leans on Mag, Def and Res (in addition to Charm of course). Halved magic uses limits its magic offense, as it should be (barring magic weapons and Combat Arts).
  • Spd is a little low, the Brigadier doesn't flex their muscles too much now.
• Abilities:
  • Rally Range +2: Rallies can be applied to allies 3 spaces away from the user.
  • Rally Effect +1: Rallies now apply to allies adjacent to the targeted unit, excluding the user.
  • Gambit Vigor: After using a Gambit, this unit can act again.
• Mastered Ability: Finest Hour- Doubles (or increases by 50% if 100% is too strong) the potency of Rallies on units with less than 25% of their maximum HP.

 

Commandant:

• Cavalry
  • Move is set to 7, the lower of the two final class mounted Move numbers.
  • No armor, again, to avoid obsoleting Great Knight.
  • I'd like name this class "General", but FE (yet not 3H), has reserved that name for the promoted armor class.
• Examination Ranks:
  • B Lances
  • B Riding
  • A Authority
• Skill Levels:
  • +1 Swords, +3 Lances, +1 Axe. +3 Authority.
• Stats:
  • Leans on Str, Skl, Lck, and Charm.
  • Def and Res are a little low, making it squishy.
• Abilities:
  • Presence: Provides each Rally this unit currently has equipped as a passive bonus to adjacent allies. Can stack with Rally bonuses.
  • Battle Cry: After using Rally, enemies within 3 spaces of the user receive matching stat debuffs for each Rally the user currently has equipped.
  • Canto
• Mastered Ability
  • Self-Motivating: Rallies used by this unit now apply to them. Does not affect Presence.
• Mastered Art: Mass Attack-
  • Lance
  • Range 1
  • +4 Might
  • +10 Crit
  • 4 Durability
  • Might increases based on this unit's Charm.
  • Enemies adjacent to the target are also hit by Mass Attack, with the final damage halved and nonfatal. 
• Premise:
  • The idea of the Commandant is try to create an alternative to the Brigadier that does not obsolete it solely from having a horse and that precious additional Move.
  • Brigadier and Commandant are modeled after two different kinds of leader.
    • The wise Brigadier keeps a safe distance when issuing commands, slinging spells and arrows when they aren't doing that.
    • The Commandant by contrast is a reckless, charismatic individual who throw themselves into the horrible fray armed with melee weapons. The Commandant stays dangerously close to the soldiers who risk their lives for them, and so the soldiers are endeared to their selfless Commandant.
  • Presence and Battle Cry aren't simply weaker versions of the same skills the Brigadier gets, they're entirely different.
    • The Commandant has extra Move, and it needs to use it to be functional.
    • It needs to allies adjacent to it their Presence to be felt. It's kinda like Charm, but better (provided you have Rally Strength).
    • And it needs nearby enemies to scare them shitless with a fierce rallying roar.
  • High Str, Skl, Lck reflect a love for gutsy combat up-close, playing into the personality.
    • But iffy Def and Res, and no real bias towards HP and Spd, to keep it from taking on the hits no problem.
  • Mass Attack is a pseudo-Gambit, for flavor's sake.
  • And if you really wanted to, you could combine a Brigadier with a Commandant. The two hardly overlap.

 

Just throwing out one scheme of many that could be imagined.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Here's a copypasted old post & idea I threw together in like an hour spur of the moment specifically for 3H once.:

Huh, for some reason you spoiler bracked is almost greyed out.

Anyway, I was thinking stuff like Flag Bearer, or heck even just a guy with a trumpet tooting at your units. Or an Alphorn - doubles as a weapon, too.

Yeah, Sovereign was what inspired the idea for me. 

[joevar]

i want defender type class to have ability to defend adjacent ally. but in limited time per turn (does 3H has it? cant remember) . because more often than not, enemy can just circling the unit with high defense and go to lower defense unit behind.

the pair up system was a neat idea where supporting character can block incoming attack, but the pair up itself is busted and easy to abuse. moreover its just straight unfair to enemies. imagine if named enemy pair up with another named enemy.. that would be nightmare

17 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Dedicated Rally Class - increasing range, increasing power, increasing time the effects lasts for example.

actually if they decide to branch or expand support role in battle, i want them to separate sortie limit between attacker and support role.

so support wont interfere in your overall firepower attack power

 

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

3 hours ago, joevar said:

actually if they decide to branch or expand support role in battle, i want them to separate sortie limit between attacker and support role.

so support wont interfere in your overall firepower attack power

But how´d that work with someone like Gremory Mercedes? She is all the healing your campaign needs, but she can also thoroughly dish out. Should she then make up a slot in both categories? Or only 0.5 in either?