How often does Fire Emblem features an optional, overleveled boss with an mediocre reward?

[Armchair General]

So, my younger brother is playing through 3H for the first time and he's asking me how to kill the Death Knight in the graverobbing mission, a few days ago; but I'm not helping him with that for a few reasons, but I told him that you can't win against him. Sure, the obvious happened between us; but the important thing is that he stopped  bothering me about it.

Yes, I know that I'm an terrible brother.

But more importantly, it had me wondering if his Dark Seals actually had more use than just being a trophy that lets me deal some bonus magic damage? Sure, all it unlocks is Miasma, Lifetaker, Poison Strike, and probably something else; but I was initially expecting it to unlock the entire library of Dark Magic. But since it doesn't, I feel like it's more of an trophy that I wasted on Byleth (even though Poison Strike has it's uses).

And it's not just 3H with the technically "useful" rewards, since SoV's Dracoshield is so heavy that the only people won't be affected by it are the only ones who are already immune to physical attacks in SoV. And if you grinded just to beat Desaix's body double, chances are that you wouldn't be using it anytime soon.

But  an contextually useful trophy is a lot better than nothing at all or getting an generic weapon, imo.

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Armchair General

[vanguard333]

If you weren't going to help him, why tell him it's impossible; why not tell him to figure it out for himself?

1 hour ago, Armchair General said:

And it's not just 3H with the technically "useful" rewards, since SoV's Dracoshield is so heavy that the only people won't be affected by it are the only ones who are already immune to physical attacks in SoV. And if you grinded just to beat Desaix's body double, chances are that you wouldn't be using it anytime soon.

I think the main usefulness of the dracoshield isn't in defense against physical attacks, but in adding 13 resistance in a game where everyone that isn't a dread fighter has a resistance stat of 1 and pretty much no chance of increasing it. But even then, there's the hexlock shield that adds 7 resistance for far less added weight, so your point still stands.

[BrightBow]

5 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I think the main usefulness of the dracoshield isn't in defense against physical attacks, but in adding 13 resistance in a game where everyone that isn't a dread fighter has a resistance stat of 1 and pretty much no chance of increasing it. But even then, there's the hexlock shield that adds 7 resistance for far less added weight, so your point still stands.

Also Regeneration, which is always nice to have for healers.

Plus, shields had no weight in Gaiden.

[Shadow Mir]

7 hours ago, Armchair General said:

And it's not just 3H with the technically "useful" rewards, since SoV's Dracoshield is so heavy that the only people won't be affected by it are the only ones who are already immune to physical attacks in SoV. And if you grinded just to beat Desaix's body double, chances are that you wouldn't be using it anytime soon.

Honestly, I'd say that even in SoV, it's more useful than the Dark Seals are in 3H. Dark Mage and Dark Bishop are male-only, and only one male unit in the entire game gets any real use out of them. Said unit is also locked to one route in the game.

[lenticular]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Honestly, I'd say that even in SoV, it's more useful than the Dark Seals are in 3H. Dark Mage and Dark Bishop are male-only, and only one male unit in the entire game gets any real use out of them. Said unit is also locked to one route in the game.

Dark mages in Three Houses are bad, but they're not that bad. If all you care about is power level now, then Dark Mage is just a straight up better class than regular Mage. Regular Mage is generally prefered because of its better mastery skill, but prior to mastery, Dark Mage is stronger. Similarly, Dark Bishop is a pretty good choice if you haven't already picked up Fiendish Blow from mastering Mage. Not just straight up better than Warlock, but certainly competitive. The problem with Dark Mage and Dark Bishop is only really apparent once you know the meta of picking up class masteries in Intermediate tier, and know exactly how to grab Fiendish Blow. For players who don't know that, then they're perfectly reasonable classes (though never great).

(I also quite like some of the stuff that you can do with Poison Strike and Lifetaker in NG+, though admitedly that's moving more towards the "strictly for fun" side of things than the "actually good" side of things.)

As to the main topic of the thread, I'd say that Ike's fight against The Black Knight in Path of Radiance fits the bill as something that is only really worth doing for story reasons and/or bragging rights. Getting to upgrade from Ena to Nasir really isn't much of a reward at all, since neither of them are particularly fantastic. Especially given that one of their primary benefits, the ability to damage Ashnard, is pretty much guaranteed not to be needed if you have an Ike strong enough to beat The Black Knight.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Beating Cid in the Last Promise for boots was the first thing which I came to mind, but then I remembered that reward is actually good.

You know what the worst one is though? Fargus. Not only is he stupid overleveled, the reward for beating him is losing.

[Shadow Mir]

39 minutes ago, lenticular said:

Dark mages in Three Houses are bad, but they're not that bad. If all you care about is power level now, then Dark Mage is just a straight up better class than regular Mage. Regular Mage is generally prefered because of its better mastery skill, but prior to mastery, Dark Mage is stronger. Similarly, Dark Bishop is a pretty good choice if you haven't already picked up Fiendish Blow from mastering Mage. Not just straight up better than Warlock, but certainly competitive. The problem with Dark Mage and Dark Bishop is only really apparent once you know the meta of picking up class masteries in Intermediate tier, and know exactly how to grab Fiendish Blow. For players who don't know that, then they're perfectly reasonable classes (though never great).

That's the issue, though - even putting aside Fiendish Blow, Dark Mage doesn't do anything of note for anyone besides Hubert, aside from giving them a few casts of Miasma. Poison Strike doesn't help as much in 3H as it did in Fates, relatively speaking, as in the latter, it was tied to a class that used weak weapons, meaning the extra damage was usually welcome. In 3H, on the other hand, odds are you're doing a good chunk of damage just by hitting resistance. And then you consider that you need ANOTHER Dark Seal to certify for Dark Bishop. Sure, it has innate Fiendish Blow, which means it frees up an ability slot, but... are there any must-equip abilities for mages that one would be able to slot in then? Also, Lifetaker sucks really bad now, due to the fact that it only restores half the HP the opponent had when they were attacked (as opposed to prior appearances, where it restored half the max HP of the user). Oftentimes, that won't be a lot.

16 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

You know what the worst one is though? Fargus. Not only is he stupid overleveled, the reward for beating him is losing.

I'd second this.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Shadow Mir

[Jotari]

You don't have to grind to beat Xane Desaix's body double. It's more about persistence and abusing the 1minimum damage feature. And while I wouldn't say the effort is exactly worth it, the Dracoshield itself isn't worthless. You might sacrifice a mage's ability to double, but making them functionally invincible for much of the game is still pretty neat. Of course the first three chapters of Shadows of Valentia are pretty easy in general. Still, I'd definitely rate the Dracoshield as better than a Dark Seal, if we're not factoring in the effort it takes to get both.

5 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

That's the issue, though - even putting aside Fiendish Blow, Dark Mage doesn't do anything of note for anyone besides Hubert, aside from giving them a few casts of Miasma. Poison Strike doesn't help as much in 3H as it did in Fates, relatively speaking, as in the latter, it was tied to a class that used weak weapons, meaning the extra damage was usually welcome. In 3H, on the other hand, odds are you're doing a good chunk of damage just by hitting resistance. And then you consider that you need ANOTHER Dark Seal to certify for Dark Bishop. Sure, it has innate Fiendish Blow, which means it frees up an ability slot, but... are there any must-equip abilities for mages that one would be able to slot in then? Also, Lifetaker sucks really bad now, due to the fact that it only restores half the HP the opponent had when they were attacked (as opposed to prior appearances, where it restored half the max HP of the user). Oftentimes, that won't be a lot.

I'd second this.

You could just leave them in Dark Bishop, since you consider Dark Knight to be such a massively unworkable class. Better stats and innate skills than Bishop.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Jotari

[Armchair General]

13 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

If you weren't going to help him, why tell him it's impossible; why not tell him to figure it out for himself?

Because: The only thing that I knew about his build is that he was playing as the Black Eagles, winning against the Death requires doing some chip damage with the battalions and subsequently using either Knightkeeler or Dark Spikes while praying to the RNG, I doubt if he'll ever understand the game as the same level as you guys, and he can easily look it up on YouTube.

Besides, unless you have an specific build against him or just get a crit in; you're going to get your ass kicked.

 

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

You don't have to grind to beat Xane Desaix's body double. It's more about persistence and abusing the 1minimum damage feature.

Slayde usually suicides himself on Hard, so I had to use Clive as an distraction and warp most of my army over towards Desiax.

 

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Armchair General said:

Because: The only thing that I knew about his build is that he was playing as the Black Eagles, winning against the Death requires doing some chip damage with the battalions and subsequently using either Knightkeeler or Dark Spikes while praying to the RNG, I doubt if he'll ever understand the game as the same level as you guys, and he can easily look it up on YouTube.

Besides, unless you have an specific build against him or just get a crit in; you're going to get your ass kicked.

 

Slayde usually suicides himself on Hard, so I had to use Clive as an distraction and warp most of my army over towards Desiax.

 

I find the best strategy is to back Slayde into one corner of the top room and Desiax into another. You can get whomever is adjacent to them on heal tiles so they can survive longer. You'll have to release Slayde eventually to let him retreat to a heal tile of his own, but so long as you manage every thing carefully it shouldn't be too challenging (just tedious). You can also use the retreat function to clear out the map except for the two of them. And if you take longer than fifty turns you'll be ejected from the map anyway.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

You don't have to grind to beat Xane Desaix's body double. It's more about persistence and abusing the 1minimum damage feature. And while I wouldn't say the effort is exactly worth it, the Dracoshield itself isn't worthless. You might sacrifice a mage's ability to double, but making them functionally invincible for much of the game is still pretty neat. Of course the first three chapters of Shadows of Valentia are pretty easy in general. Still, I'd definitely rate the Dracoshield as better than a Dark Seal, if we're not factoring in the effort it takes to get both.

Yeah all of this. On my "forced recruits only" playthrough of SoV, I put the Dracoshield on Cleric Claire. All of a sudden, she was actually bulky, able to Nosferatank her way through Enemy Phase. She didn't quite hold up, but it was a Mila-send for Act III, at least.

6 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

That's the issue, though - even putting aside Fiendish Blow, Dark Mage doesn't do anything of note for anyone besides Hubert, aside from giving them a few casts of Miasma. Poison Strike doesn't help as much in 3H as it did in Fates, relatively speaking, as in the latter, it was tied to a class that used weak weapons, meaning the extra damage was usually welcome. In 3H, on the other hand, odds are you're doing a good chunk of damage just by hitting resistance. And then you consider that you need ANOTHER Dark Seal to certify for Dark Bishop. Sure, it has innate Fiendish Blow, which means it frees up an ability slot, but... are there any must-equip abilities for mages that one would be able to slot in then? Also, Lifetaker sucks really bad now, due to the fact that it only restores half the HP the opponent had when they were attacked (as opposed to prior appearances, where it restored half the max HP of the user). Oftentimes, that won't be a lot.

TBH "Poison Strike is worse in 3H than it was in Fates" is irrelevant to its value within 3H. A better question is, how's it compare to Fiendish Blow? Fiendish Blow provides an additional 6 damage per hit, or 18 with a crit, whereas Poison Strike adds 20% (less for monsters) of the foe's HP to damage dealt. So it does equivalent bonus damage to one hit at 30 HP, and to two hits at 60 HP. So if I double a foe with 50 HP, Fiendish Blow is better (12 > 10), but if I only hit them once, Poison Strike is better (10 > 6).

Or is it? See, Poison Strike provides post-combat non-lethal damage, whereas Fiendish Blow can turn a near-kill into a kill. If I'm doing 45 damage to a 50 HP foe (before any skills), then Fiendish Blow is better because it secures the kill (while Poison Strike knocks the foe to 1 HP). Whereas, if I'm only doing 15 damage, Poison Strike is better, bumping to 25 rather than 21 damage. ...Unless I have a solid chance to crit, in which case, Fiendish Blow is again preferred.

There are a couple areas in which the "post-combat calculation" is actually advantageous, and one is against monsters. If I finish off a monster's health bar, then Poison Strike chips damage off the next health bar. The other is Impregnable Wall - Poison Strike ignores the "only 1 damage" restriction, thus letting you get decent chip in (and T-pose on Nemesis).

So, which skill is better? Fiendish Blow is generally better on Mages who double, crit, or have nearly enough innate magical power to one-shot foes. For Mages where none of those three is usually true, Poison Strike is better. Of course, you can pick up both - most Male Mages have nothing better to master (Archer?) before hitting level 20.

12 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

Because: The only thing that I knew about his build is that he was playing as the Black Eagles, winning against the Death requires doing some chip damage with the battalions and subsequently using either Knightkeeler or Dark Spikes while praying to the RNG, I doubt if he'll ever understand the game as the same level as you guys, and he can easily look it up on YouTube.

Besides, unless you have an specific build against him or just get a crit in; you're going to get your ass kicked.

Vengeance Bernadetta go brrrr.

12 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

Slayde usually suicides himself on Hard, so I had to use Clive as an distraction and warp most of my army over towards Desiax.

The secret is to weaken Slayde, so that he wants to go for a healing tile. But, you can have one unit block his path, so he tries another route. Then next turn, move the unit again, so his original path is unblocked. Just get Slayde moving back and forth, ceaselessly. 

[BrightBow]

Only thing to watch out for is that the AI will prioritize dealing a killing blow over retreating to heal.

[Armchair General]

11 hours ago, BrightBow said:

Plus, shields had no weight in Gaiden

I was talking about the remake.

 

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

TBH "Poison Strike is worse in 3H than it was in Fates" is irrelevant to its value within 3H. A better question is, how's it compare to Fiendish Blow?

Poison Strike is really good for feeding kills, provided that your mage conveniently doesn't slaughter whatever you send him after. Other than dealing up to twelve to fourteen (I think?) points of bonus damage towards the end of the game, it initially doesn't sounds as great in comparison with Fiendish Blow. Sure, if it was tied to people who were significantly weaker; most people wouldn't have a problem with it. But in my experience, it either doesn't matter or it pushes some random bandit to the brink of death.

[BrightBow]

1 minute ago, Armchair General said:

I was talking about the remake.

The title of this topic refers to the series as a whole.

...or FE7, I suppose

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

So, which skill is better? Fiendish Blow is generally better on Mages who double, crit, or have nearly enough innate magical power to one-shot foes.

To put a face to that name, Hanneman really appreciates Dark Mage. Since he's super slow anyway and probably won't be doubling. It's also fun to combo Poison Strike with Meteor to chip someone for heavy damage from the other side of the map. Though the sentiment of "why not both" rings very true. Chances are you will master Mage's Fiendish Blow before you have enough levels to promote them. Mages might not have the most readily desired skills, but for the skills they do want, it doesn't take that long to master them, because even on turns you're not attacking with them, you can still do some minor healing or ward spam to give them at least a little class exp.

To go back on topic, Julius in Chapter 10 of Genealogy of the Holy War would no doubt count as an optional overlevelled boss. However his reward varies from useless, being absolutely nothing but pride, to amazing, that being the leg ring if you missed inheriting it from the first gen.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Jotari

[Shadow Mir]

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

TBH "Poison Strike is worse in 3H than it was in Fates" is irrelevant to its value within 3H. A better question is, how's it compare to Fiendish Blow? Fiendish Blow provides an additional 6 damage per hit, or 18 with a crit, whereas Poison Strike adds 20% (less for monsters) of the foe's HP to damage dealt. So it does equivalent bonus damage to one hit at 30 HP, and to two hits at 60 HP. So if I double a foe with 50 HP, Fiendish Blow is better (12 > 10), but if I only hit them once, Poison Strike is better (10 > 6).

Or is it? See, Poison Strike provides post-combat non-lethal damage, whereas Fiendish Blow can turn a near-kill into a kill. If I'm doing 45 damage to a 50 HP foe (before any skills), then Fiendish Blow is better because it secures the kill (while Poison Strike knocks the foe to 1 HP). Whereas, if I'm only doing 15 damage, Poison Strike is better, bumping to 25 rather than 21 damage. ...Unless I have a solid chance to crit, in which case, Fiendish Blow is again preferred.

There are a couple areas in which the "post-combat calculation" is actually advantageous, and one is against monsters. If I finish off a monster's health bar, then Poison Strike chips damage off the next health bar. The other is Impregnable Wall - Poison Strike ignores the "only 1 damage" restriction, thus letting you get decent chip in (and T-pose on Nemesis).

So, which skill is better? Fiendish Blow is generally better on Mages who double, crit, or have nearly enough innate magical power to one-shot foes. For Mages where none of those three is usually true, Poison Strike is better. Of course, you can pick up both - most Male Mages have nothing better to master (Archer?) before hitting level 20.

Okay, but that still makes it sound rather underwhelming. Monsters aren't the most common of enemy units, and with the exception of a select few, aren't that hard to kill. And then I think about the male mages... Hubert, Lorenz, Hanneman, and Linhardt (I can't really judge Yuri). Not exactly an all-star lineup, to say the least; Hubert is the best of these, but that's not saying much, and second, he's locked to one route. And to be honest, I'd agree that it's only particularly valuable when the user doesn't take most of the target's life points in one attack. Or on Ignatz, who probably wouldn't care too much about the class itself (Ashe has a reason bane).

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

To go back on topic, Julius in Chapter 10 of Genealogy of the Holy War would no doubt count as an optional overlevelled boss. However his reward varies from useless, being absolutely nothing but pride, to amazing, that being the leg ring if you missed inheriting it from the first gen.

Likewise, I'd count Galzus in Thracia, largely because the only thing you get out of it is robbing yourself of the chance to recruit him later on. That's something I'd consider worse than useless.

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

You could just leave them in Dark Bishop, since you consider Dark Knight to be such a massively unworkable class. Better stats and innate skills than Bishop.

I don't consider Dark Knight unworkable, just underwhelming (of course, a lot of that has to do with the fact that unlike your garden-variety FE game, being a cavalry unit in 3H isn't all sunshine and rainbows). And the same can be said of Dark Bishop, tbf (at least, unless your name is Hubert). For an item that's as hard to get as Dark Seals are, I'd seriously think the classes that are gated behind them would be better than what they ended up being...

Edited December 17, 2021 by Shadow Mir

[Parrhesia]

If you're in a position to kill a difficult bonus boss, you don't need a big reward. That's just snowball-design.

[Jotari]

5 minutes ago, Parrhesia said:

If you're in a position to kill a difficult bonus boss, you don't need a big reward. That's just snowball-design.

That's a pretty good point. Although interesting stuff can still be done with it. Like, for example, the reward for beating Grima in Shadows of Valentia is a ring that mixes up your growth rates. That sounds super fun and interesting to use, though not necessarily practical...only Shadows of Valentia gives it for beating the post game optional super boss. Meaning by the time you get it you already have a fully trained team and there's literally nothing else in the game worth fighting. All you can do is just toss it on one of your low level units and jump into a bunch of skirmishes to see what might happen. Now if we got the Demon Ring at the start of the game, say for beating Desaix, then that could be a really weird and fun mechanic that doesn't actually snowball design. Use optional overlevelled bosses as a way to do more weird stuff than actual useful stuff. That would be a reward the people that can actually beat the overlevelled boss can actually  appreciate from a perspective of getting the most out of the game.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

44 minutes ago, Parrhesia said:

If you're in a position to kill a difficult bonus boss, you don't need a big reward. That's just snowball-design.

Why kill an optional boss then and, to think that further, why even put it on the map to begin with, other than for fleeting story reasons and maybe a little bit of map design (e.g. DK as area denial in chapter 4, Gharnef hunting you in SD desert chapter)?

e.g.: Garon in chapter... 13 BR I think, where you get Kaden and fight Xander. He amounts to nothing sitting there.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Imuabicus said:

Why kill an optional boss then and, to think that further, why even put it on the map to begin with, other than for fleeting story reasons and maybe a little bit of map design (e.g. DK as area denial in chapter 4, Gharnef hunting you in SD desert chapter)?

e.g.: Garon in chapter... 13 BR I think, where you get Kaden and fight Xander. He amounts to nothing sitting there.

For the challenge.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

For the challenge.

And bragging rights, don't forget about bragging rights!

I do like the idea of beating a super-powerful optional boss unlocking... something, though. Like, if the game has an Event Viewer, you can only unlock that particular dialogue scene by beating the boss.

[Cysx]

4 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

e.g.: Garon in chapter... 13 BR I think, where you get Kaden and fight Xander. He amounts to nothing sitting there.

I'd say Xander definitely fits the bill as well, especially when you have the option to end the chapter immediately, skipping both. Garon is statistically much worse but you can take your time, while Xander is still very dangerous and rushes you.

FE5 has a few more candidates overall(Reinhardt with Saias still around, Olwen and Fred with their invincibility flag, Galzus in the petrification chapter), but they're usually pretty specific.

FE7 has Kishuna... except you do have to kill him and he's a pretty good showcase of why you shouldn't tie rewards to challenges like these.

FE10 has like a dozen of them, particularly when you fight the Dawn brigade(the BK and Nailah in particular), but also Ike in that one DB defense chapter.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

For the challenge.

I can see that argument for a game like Dark Souls or Darkest Dungeon but not really for a SRPG.

If you are prepping for a challenge 8 chapters ahead, is it then still a challenge, a nuisance (for reasons of opportunity cost) or just another side gig?

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

And bragging rights, don't forget about bragging rights!

get this one a camera

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I do like the idea of beating a super-powerful optional boss unlocking... something, though.

hmmmm, drops a key to use on a secret-shop-ish tile, but instead it asks you in the preps if you wanna go to the *bossname* treasure room and boom, map with sweet loot

... kinda like Rhea´s paralogue, I guess?

1 hour ago, Cysx said:

Garon is statistically much worse but you can take your time

I am not 100% but I think you need to be heavily grinded out to stand a chance against Garon.

[Jotari]

42 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

I can see that argument for a game like Dark Souls or Darkest Dungeon but not really for a SRPG.

If you are prepping for a challenge 8 chapters ahead, is it then still a challenge, a nuisance (for reasons of opportunity cost) or just another side gig?

Well yes, it is still a challenge. Because that's how strategy games work. Not the  game's fault you can look up a strategy online to follow that'll work almost 100% of the time. And if you do figure out a method yourself well then there's your reward. The satisfaction of knowing the game well. Plus the carthasis on a second play through of beating something that could curbstomp you on your first playthrough because you're just plain better at the game now.

42 minutes ago, Imuabicus said:

I am not 100% but I think you need to be heavily grinded out to stand a chance against Garon.

He's about as hard to take down as Xander. For some strange reason Garon doesn't use his end game stats. Xander has more defense, but less HP. You can use effective weaponry on him though. But the trouble is he's charging you while Garon is stationary. Garon has Draconic Hex though, which is a pain even when you fight him at the end of the game.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

He's about as hard to take down as Xander. For some strange reason Garon doesn't use his end game stats. Xander has more defense, but less HP. You can use effective weaponry on him though. But the trouble is he's charging you while Garon is stationary. Garon has Draconic Hex though, which is a pain even when you fight him at the end of the game.

According to the wiki:

Garon has 58HP/33STR/19SPD/29DEF/26RES and Dragonskin. Bölverk has 21 might, 90 accuracy, apparently offers 20 dodge when equipped.

Xander has 43HP/28STR/15/SPD/29+4DEF/15RES. Siegfried has 11 might and 80 accuracy +3 from Elbow Room for ~42dmg WT not accounted for.

No way in hell does a unit take around 54 damage in chapter 12, +4dmg35hit/-4dmg35hit depending on WTA/WTD. 

And Dragonskin halves all damage, lowers crit dmg and negates Poison Strike.

 

You have neither a Hunters Knife nor a Beastkiller in chapter 12 (lest we assume MyCastle shenanigans) so good luck with that. Kaden does have his inferior innate effect but good luck surviving the counter. Tanking with Guard Naginata, defensive PU and Sakura Skill, exploiting Guard Gauge and hoping to go in with magic when he´s low enough is the only way I´m aware.