Deke/Dieck

[lasagnacat]

This could have just been my run but Deke was very useful and carried me for quite a bit. I've seen other people with really good dekes yet i rarely see him talked about, especially compared to edgelord   Rutger (who Deke still managed to surpass in my run.) Why is this or what were your experiences with the unit?

[TheChoZenOne]

My DI-

 

*BANNED*

[Slumber]

Dieck is a solid 8/10 unit.

Rutger breaks the game.

That's mainly the big difference.

[ping]

The comparison between Deke and Rutger is also wildly different between NM and HM. Rutger still has his advantages on normal difficulty, namely the speed to double bosses and the crit bonus after promo, but Deke is both stronger and bulkier than him, has around same-ish accuracy (less Skl, more Lck), and doesn't face crit from everybody and their mom.

Edited December 23, 2021 by pong

[Eltosian Kadath]

Dieck is good, but the stars align to make Rutger one of the best units in this game. There are 3 big reasons for this. First is the lower accuracy of weapons, and high evasion from thrones/gates making access to swords (the highest accuracy weapon type) better than it normally is, Skill better than it normally is, and Speed gets the added utility of dodge-tanking. The second is that the Swordmaster class gets a +30 crit, which lets Rutger hit crit rates in the 80s-90s with the right weapons. The third is that he is one of the units that gets hard mode bonuses, which gives him better stats when you are playing on Hard Mode. Now Dieck does have access to the most accurate weapon type, but Rutger has a notable edge in Skill, and Speed, and Dieck doesn't get his class bonus or HM bonuses. Now Dieck does have an edge in some good stats like strength and defense, but with HM bonuses that difference ends up rather small. Overall Dieck is fairly good, but Ruger ends up much better on Hard Mode, and a little better on Normal Mode.

Now it is important to add that these are both (mostly) growth units, so your luck can shift things drastically. If your Dieck is blessed, or Rutger cursed, Dieck can end up much better than your Rutger. People are speaking about generalities here, not about your specific run, or personal experience.

Edit: I will note that he Dieck did a great job on the Ironman Succession Game (https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?/topic/89699-fire-emblem-6-ironman-succession-game-complete/#comments), meanwhile Rutger died to a fluke crit in like chapter 6 or something. He did well whole way through, and got very high resistance quite unexpectedly

Here is his last levelup of the run...

Edited December 23, 2021 by Eltosian Kadath

[eclipse]

1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Edit: I will note that he Dieck did a great job on the Ironman Succession Game (https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?/topic/89699-fire-emblem-6-ironman-succession-game-complete/#comments), meanwhile Rutger died to a fluke crit in like chapter 6 or something. He did well whole way through, and got very high resistance quite unexpectedly

I take no responsibility at all.  😛

Back to the big guy.  Deke's selling point is that he starts with pretty good bases, and can deal with Henning should someone get their Rutger killed.  He isn't going to dodge and/or double and kill, but he can take hits, have a consistent 1-2 range option on promotion, and still dish out damage.  Don't ask what happened to that pictured Deke's Res, weird things happen when I'm allowed to control greenish-haired guys.  His biggest drawback IMO is that CON of his, which means my ferrying options are a lot more limited than everyone else who doesn't bench press horses.

[joevar]

On 12/23/2021 at 11:59 AM, lasagnacat said:

This could have just been my run but Deke was very useful and carried me for quite a bit. I've seen other people with really good dekes yet i rarely see him talked about, especially compared to edgelord   Rutger (who Deke still managed to surpass in my run.) Why is this or what were your experiences with the unit?

because Rutger just way better in Hard mode with Dieck occasionally fail to double enemy compared to rutger who always double and avoid hit more (which is more important afaik in hardmode than being bulky). and people like to compare/discuss character in higher difficulty than standard normal difficulty especially in this forum (maybe other forum too)

in normal tho, Dieck also come out on top (slightly) better than rutger in my playthru iirc

Edited December 26, 2021 by joevar

[Shadow Mir]

On 12/22/2021 at 10:59 PM, lasagnacat said:

This could have just been my run but Deke was very useful and carried me for quite a bit. I've seen other people with really good dekes yet i rarely see him talked about, especially compared to edgelord   Rutger (who Deke still managed to surpass in my run.) Why is this or what were your experiences with the unit?

To use a Pokemon analogy: Rutger is to this game what the Psychic type was to Gen 1 Pokemon. In layman's terms, he breaks it. Of course, part of that has to do with how annoying bosses in this game are; every boss is on a gate or throne, and this results in some of them being aggravating to kill *cough HENNING hack*. Deke isn't terrible, per se, but compared to Rutger, he falls short because of what Rutger has going for him (that being +30 crit when promoted; Deke, on the other hand, gets axe access, which isn't that good in this game because axes are really inaccurate, with the exception of Armads. The best that could be said is that it gives him 1-2 range... but this game is one of the worst games for hand axes and javelins. Maybe even the worst game for them besides Three Houses).

Edited December 27, 2021 by Shadow Mir

[Whisky]

On 12/23/2021 at 1:49 AM, pong said:

The comparison between Deke and Rutger is also wildly different between NM and HM. Rutger still has his advantages on normal difficulty, namely the speed to double bosses and the crit bonus after promo, but Deke is both stronger and bulkier than him, has around same-ish accuracy (less Skl, more Lck), and doesn't face crit from everybody and their mom.

This. I think Dieck might be the better unit on NM because he can often double NM enemies and is stronger and more durable than Rutger and has Axes, with Rutger’s 30% Crit not being as important. Rutger’s stats are of course also lower on NM.

On HM Rutger’s high Spd and accuracy with his Crit bonus becomes very useful for reliably killing enemies. Rutger is better on HM but Dieck is definitely still good and I honestly think the gap between them is a little smaller than most people say. Dieck does still have some advantages over Rutger on HM, though he isn’t as good overall.
 

Regardless, being overshadowed by one of the best units in the game is hardly something to hold against him. Dieck is still a really solid unit.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Whisky

[Redeyesblackdragon]

yeah my dieck on nm turned out to be so goddamn powerful that literlly destroys sacae and illia's population. He got so incredibly bulky with high damage and can double everyone. I just put him with a handaxe and he'll sweep off a group of army in one turn. Same as rutger He can dodge eveything but mostly relies on crits. These 2 guys are absolute monsters and i fricking love them.

[lasagnacat]

On 2/10/2022 at 8:55 PM, Redeyesblackdragon said:

yeah my dieck on nm turned out to be so goddamn powerful that literlly destroys sacae and illia's population. He got so incredibly bulky with high damage and can double everyone. I just put him with a handaxe and he'll sweep off a group of army in one turn. Same as rutger He can dodge eveything but mostly relies on crits. These 2 guys are absolute monsters and i fricking love them.

Dude i know. My deke by endgame i gave him the blazing blade and he 1 shot zephial.