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Choose Your Legends Round 6 Discussion Thread!


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17 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well herons don't attack on Tellius either,because it's completely out of character for them to do so (well except Reyson that one time). Not like that gets in the way of giving them a weapon in Heroes.

It's not out of character, though. It's just not a thing included in the mechanics of the other game. Out of character means that, given the option, the character would not choose to do this. (To give a simple definition, though it encompasses more than just "would not do.") It doesn't mean that the character was unable to do the thing. The ability is given in Heroes/the world in which Heroes takes place. Also, it's per individual, not per people group.

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21 hours ago, SurvivorSecondChance said:

OK what makes you think Seliph fans would vote for Chrom? Even if they did they would only give like 3000 to 4000 votes which isnt alot.

And even before the actual results I still made it to 3rd place while he dropped.

Not great reason, but there was a lot of Anti-GK rallying. Some vote from Byleth, some from Felix, Robin, and Seliph. All of it adds up. Sure Chrom was ahead of them anyway, hence why they went to him not the other way around...but Felix hasn't gotten an alt at all this year so there is also that plus the votes returning to the pool from GK, that is what has me nervous. We saw All jump from 18k to 62k in one year, after celica won, so it is very likely Felix and/or byleth make the same jump. 
 

chrom also tends to go up and down in votes, so he may not actually make it to 35 again. 
I’ll admit I’m partially pessimistic but I think 6 may be out year of Chrom fans leaving team Chrom, thinking we have it in the bag and voting their next guy. Then 7 is our wake up call but by then there’s a new remake , and then a new game…

this being Chrom’s last chance just had me stressed and maybe it’s got me pessimistic. 

Edited by SynthGreen
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6 hours ago, Mercakete said:

It's not out of character, though. It's just not a thing included in the mechanics of the other game. Out of character means that, given the option, the character would not choose to do this. (To give a simple definition, though it encompasses more than just "would not do.") It doesn't mean that the character was unable to do the thing. The ability is given in Heroes/the world in which Heroes takes place. Also, it's per individual, not per people group.

Given the option, only Reyson among the herons would use a weapon though. It woukd be out of character for Leanne and eapecially Rafiel to harm something.

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3 hours ago, SynthGreen said:

Not great reason, but there was a lot of Anti-GK rallying. Some vote from Byleth, some from Felix, Robin, and Seliph. All of it adds up. Sure Chrom was ahead of them anyway, hence why they went to him not the other way around...but Felix hasn't gotten an alt at all this year so there is also that plus the votes returning to the pool from GK, that is what has me nervous. We saw All jump from 18k to 62k in one year, after celica won, so it is very likely Felix and/or byleth make the same jump. 
 

chrom also tends to go up and down in votes, so he may not actually make it to 35 again. 
I’ll admit I’m partially pessimistic but I think 6 may be out year of Chrom fans leaving team Chrom, thinking we have it in the bag and voting their next guy. Then 7 is our wake up call but by then there’s a new remake , and then a new game…

this being Chrom’s last chance just had me stressed and maybe it’s got me pessimistic. 

If you look at CYL 4 and 5 Byleth and Felix placement stayed nearly the same there is no way a vast majority of Chrom's votes came from them. 

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5 hours ago, SurvivorSecondChance said:

If you look at CYL 4 and 5 Byleth and Felix placement stayed nearly the same there is no way a vast majority of Chrom's votes came from them. 

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Yeah but I never said a vast majority. My worry is that if he goes down due to that, then gatekeeper votes tend to stay in three houses and give their attention to Byleth and Felix, plus Felix gets rallied due to no alts, it may add up to be enough to take Chrom down. 

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1 hour ago, SynthGreen said:

Yeah but I never said a vast majority. My worry is that if he goes down due to that, then gatekeeper votes tend to stay in three houses and give their attention to Byleth and Felix, plus Felix gets rallied due to no alts, it may add up to be enough to take Chrom down. 

I don't think Gatekeeper votes will necessarily correlate much with other 3H votes. He feels like more of his own thing to me.

Marianne votes probably will, though.

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2 hours ago, Othin said:

I don't think Gatekeeper votes will necessarily correlate much with other 3H votes. He feels like more of his own thing to me.

Marianne votes probably will, though.

I feel like those would split between Ashe and Hilda more than any other 3H characters. Maybe some still go to characters like Felix. He did go down in votes so those may come back with a vengeance. 
 

but almost all 3H characters went down, while GK had a lot. That’s why I think it correlates but that may not be the case. 

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4 hours ago, Othin said:

I don't think Gatekeeper votes will necessarily correlate much with other 3H votes. He feels like more of his own thing to me.

Yeah, I feel they'll be more likely to jump to whatever ends up being the flavor of the month meme this time (which may or may not be a Three Houses character like Abysskeeper or Flame Emperor, assuming IS is incompetent enough to let the latter remain on the ballot again).

But I suppose regardless whether the former Gatekeeper voters go with a Three Houses character or the meme pick, they're very likely to get in the way of Chrom winning either way.

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1 hour ago, SynthGreen said:

 

I feel like those would split between Ashe and Hilda more than any other 3H characters. Maybe some still go to characters like Felix. He did go down in votes so those may come back with a vengeance. 
 

but almost all 3H characters went down, while GK had a lot. That’s why I think it correlates but that may not be the case. 

Do you consider the possibility that some of the GK voters came from the female side? if you look at this Marriane had less than half of Edelgards votes

How did the females side drop so drastically?

I don't have proof that this is a fact but I hope it is indeed true.

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Edited by SurvivorSecondChance
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2 hours ago, SurvivorSecondChance said:

Do you consider the possibility that some of the GK voters came from the female side? if you look at this Marriane had less than half of Edelgards votes

How did the females side drop so drastically?

I don't have proof that this is a fact but I hope it is indeed true.

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Absolutely a large part of it is. 

and there’s genuine GK love not saying it’s all a joke but…

 

gatekeeper has proven memes can win when Reinhardt couldn’t. Is Reinhardt the next big meme? He tried but failed but maybe he gets his second wins. Maybe Abysskeeper, or Brigand boss. The reason I think it’s different this time, is that the meme community has proven their power and if any of those memes make it into the top 10,  there’s a big change they’ll take 1st place. 
 

2nd place is open, but between M Byleth being made into a secondary unit in his duo, while f Byleth got to lead, that’ll get his fans riled up. Then Felix who got no attention, surely that won’t go over well. 
 

Chrom still got 20k votes and while some came from spite voting and may leave, not all of it did a lot was genuine. So does he have a chance? 
well Seliph got no attention this year, and Seliph went from 15 to 6 so back to 15 is likely. Does that all come from Chrom? Who can really say. 
 

Marth fans are likely splitting. Some to Chrom, some to Tiki and Caeda, and some to other legacy characters like Seliph. It’s impossible to track, but it’s way too soon to say Chrom has it in the bag and unfortunately his fanbase on Twitter at least is acting like he does which puts him in a really tough spot going forward. 

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I think Hilda will contend with Bernadetta for 2nd place in the female division, with Byleth grabbing 1st. I'd like to see Nino or Lilina or Elincia in contention, but I don't think they will be. They might break Top 10-20, though.

The male division is a little trickier, I think. On one hand, this really does feel like Chrom's year. On the other hand, the majority of meme characters are male (brigand boss, Abysskeeper, etc.) , and then you have the competition with Byleth, Felix, Ashe, Robin, and potentially Seliph and Reinhardt (who I guess is part of the meme group). We'll see what happens.

5 minutes ago, SynthGreen said:

and there’s genuine GK love not saying it’s all a joke but…

There definitely is some GK love out there, but you really can't deny that a LOT of the GK votes were from people memeing. 70k+ votes for...Gatekeeper? Yeah, no, definitely majority meme.

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4 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I think Hilda will contend with Bernadetta for 2nd place in the female division, with Byleth grabbing 1st. I'd like to see Nino or Lilina or Elincia in contention, but I don't think they will be. They might break Top 10-20, though.

The male division is a little trickier, I think. On one hand, this really does feel like Chrom's year. On the other hand, the majority of meme characters are male (brigand boss, Abysskeeper, etc.) , and then you have the competition with Byleth, Felix, Ashe, Robin, and potentially Seliph and Reinhardt (who I guess is part of the meme group). We'll see what happens.

There definitely is some GK love out there, but you really can't deny that a LOT of the GK votes were from people memeing. 70k+ votes for...Gatekeeper? Yeah, no, definitely majority meme.

Nino is a recurring top 20 so at least she’s getting some traction. I think she will be back in there! But I do think Hilda will win with golden deer fans now leaving Marianne. 
 

as for Chrom’s competition you hit exactly why I think this isn’t his year. Though I think Ashe will drop at least somewhat, and Robin as never actually been competition for Chrom. He sits in the top 10 and has been by Chrom in rank but never really near him in vote count, I think it’s partially because most Robin fans like Chrom too and may vote for him, but many Chrom fans aren’t Robin fans so they don’t vote for Robin. 
 

And lastly…yes. You’re completely right about GK I think a big portion comes from memes. Maybe it came from memes and blossomed into a true fandom, but regardless I think this will lead to more memes in the top 10. 

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16 hours ago, Jotari said:

Given the option, only Reyson among the herons would use a weapon though. It woukd be out of character for Leanne and eapecially Rafiel to harm something.

Just because it wasn't displayed doesn't mean it's out of character. You realize you're talking about an entire people group, not just the herons we see, right? It's canon that the herons have an aversion to violence because of biological limitations, but that's not the same as "given the choice and ability, every heron ever besides Reyson would choose not to fight." In fact, every heron we see enters combat somehow, despite the aversion to violence. Past precedent is not king. There are things you can surmise based on the trails that are left.

Anyway, I personally think we've gone on this long enough. You seem to really want Elena to use the emblem. Personally, I think that Elena would literally rather die, given her actions since coming in contact with the medallion. We already have Fallen Ashnard and he's probably as close to someone using the medallion as we're going to get unless Lehran himself uses it (not that I could see him doing that either since he and Altena (Altina?) worked so hard to stuff the darn bird into that thing.) So, Miciah, maybe. But not Elena.

1 hour ago, SynthGreen said:

and there’s genuine GK love not saying it’s all a joke

THANK YOU. Seriously, the guy is probably my favorite 3H character -- maybe even more than Ashe.

1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

There definitely is some GK love out there, but you really can't deny that a LOT of the GK votes were from people memeing. 70k+ votes for...Gatekeeper? Yeah, no, definitely majority meme.

That's speculation you've got there. IS ran the numbers themselves and released the stats of the sorts of players who voted for which winners. Everyone was pretty surprised that it was the loyal core of FEH (those who play consistently, logging on every day etc.) who voted for GK.

1 hour ago, SynthGreen said:

And lastly…yes. You’re completely right about GK I think a big portion comes from memes. Maybe it came from memes and blossomed into a true fandom, but regardless I think this will lead to more memes in the top 10. 

I think it's the opposite. Just because he's generic-looking and doesn't have a name, people think he's not a "real character," but what makes a character is the behavior. GK had plenty of true fans well before the voting took place. I don't get the attitude that people have thinking "it must be a meme because why else would anyone have this guy as a favorite?" Lots of people like GK because he's a great guy. The meme voters came in on it, too, but I think that was just because they saw the trend of his actual fans and were all "lol who dis?" And, unfortunately, wound up inflaming the community and drowning out the actual fans since it was easier for people who aren't his fans to understand the meme voters than those who actually like him.

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3 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

That's speculation you've got there. 

No, it's not. I'll repeat: 70k+ votes...for Gatekeeper? 72k, to be exact. That's barely less than Edelgard the previous year (2k less). It's more than Dimitri and Claude. It's more than Alm, who got 62k in his win. That's more than Lysithea and Marianne, Eirika, Eliwood, Marth, Camilla, Micaiah, Ephraim, Hector, Celica, Ike, Roy, Lucina, Lyn...every other winner minus Edelgard. You are absolutely fooling yourself if you genuinely believe he has that many genuine fans, or that he's genuinely as popular or more popular than ANY of the other 1st and 2nd place winners of any CYL, let alone other characters who haven't won, such as Azura, Felix, Chrom, Tiki, Clair, Mist, Nino, Lyon, Robin, etc.

As I said, he clearly has genuine fans. But THAT many? Absolutely not. The majority of his votes were absolutely meme votes. That's it, full stop. It's a ridiculous debate saying otherwise.

11 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

IS ran the numbers themselves and released the stats of the sorts of players who voted for which winners. Everyone was pretty surprised that it was the loyal core of FEH (those who play consistently, logging on every day etc.) who voted for GK.

And the loyal core can meme-vote, too. Many did by their own admission! "But people voted just to block and/or spite him, too!" Yeah, and? Even more voted just to meme and/or spite.

16 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

GK had plenty of true fans well before the voting took place.

Lots of people like GK because he's a great guy.

Not nearly as many as you want to think.

17 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

The meme voters came in on it, too, but I think that was just because they saw the trend of his actual fans and were all "lol who dis?" And, unfortunately, wound up inflaming the community and drowning out the actual fans since it was easier for people who aren't his fans to understand the meme voters than those who actually like him.

And you're seriously downplaying the number of meme voters, by a significant degree.

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26 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

I think it's the opposite. Just because he's generic-looking and doesn't have a name, people think he's not a "real character," but what makes a character is the behavior. GK had plenty of true fans well before the voting took place. I don't get the attitude that people have thinking "it must be a meme because why else would anyone have this guy as a favorite?" Lots of people like GK because he's a great guy. The meme voters came in on it, too, but I think that was just because they saw the trend of his actual fans and were all "lol who dis?" And, unfortunately, wound up inflaming the community and drowning out the actual fans since it was easier for people who aren't his fans to understand the meme voters than those who actually like him.

Yes, there are definitely people who are fans of "Gatekeeper the character" rather than "Gatekeeper the meme" like you.

There is no way he wins CYL5 without all the people voting for "Gatekeeper the meme", and he sure as hell wouldn't have gotten more than twice as many votes as Chrom without those people. He will be remembered for being a meme above everything else, even if that's not the reason why you or others personally like him.

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11 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

No, it's not. I'll repeat: 70k+ votes...for Gatekeeper? 72k, to be exact. That's barely less than Edelgard the previous year (2k less). It's more than Dimitri and Claude. It's more than Alm, who got 62k in his win. That's more than Lysithea and Marianne, Eirika, Eliwood, Marth, Camilla, Micaiah, Ephraim, Hector, Celica, Ike, Roy, Lucina, Lyn...every other winner minus Edelgard. You are absolutely fooling yourself if you genuinely believe he has that many genuine fans, or that he's genuinely as popular or more popular than ANY of the other 1st and 2nd place winners of any CYL, let alone other characters who haven't won, such as Azura, Felix, Chrom, Tiki, Clair, Mist, Nino, Lyon, Robin, etc.

As I said, he clearly has genuine fans. But THAT many? Absolutely not. The majority of his votes were absolutely meme votes. That's it, full stop. It's a ridiculous debate saying otherwise.

And the loyal core can meme-vote, too. Many did by their own admission! "But people voted just to block and/or spite him, too!" Yeah, and? Even more voted just to meme and/or spite.

Not nearly as many as you want to think.

And you're seriously downplaying the number of meme voters, by a significant degree.

Who ever said anything about downplaying the meme voters? I never said one was greater in number than the other. In fact, I even explained how the meme voters bloated the vote. Don't assume things I never said.

@Tybrosion

I totally agree, and it's a sad thing, especially since it led to the VA getting harassed. It never should have gone that far.

Edited by Mercakete
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27 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Who ever said anything about downplaying the meme voters? I never said one was greater in number than the other. In fact, I even explained how the meme voters bloated the vote. Don't assume things I never said.

I mean you really were downplaying the meme voters, you even brought up "IS released the statistics" as an argument to downplay the meme voting. It definitely sounded like you were advocating GK winning on his own merit without meme help. And if you weren't, you needed to be a whole lot clearer about it.

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I can’t speak for everyone, but I got the unique character I wanted in Gatekeeper. And part of why I’m hesitant to vote for Chrom, for example, is that I don’t want another Falchion unit. While his flavor of Falchion is different than Marth, and as a sword unit, both he and his weapon have been powercrept; I feel this coveted spot would be better for someone not tied to Falchion.

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1 hour ago, Lemmy said:

I can’t speak for everyone, but I got the unique character I wanted in Gatekeeper. And part of why I’m hesitant to vote for Chrom, for example, is that I don’t want another Falchion unit. While his flavor of Falchion is different than Marth, and as a sword unit, both he and his weapon have been powercrept; I feel this coveted spot would be better for someone not tied to Falchion.

 

1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I would hope that if Chrom does win, they do to him what they did to Lucina and give him a lance. Or, they could make him the first CYL dagger unit, it's the only weapon not represented through a CYL unit yet.

I am not too worried about Chrom's weapon if he ever does win. 
He has lances as you mentioned, and in Warriors which is non canon but was built around him, he gets lightning based lances. He may use some sort of Dragon's breathe like Lance that is made of lightning and attacks the weaker of Def or Res (Chrom was Naga;s chosen Before he performed the awakening) 

He could use Emm's staff, or a new weapon out of nowhere (hopefully not as CYL is a celebration and should be grounded in the character)

But even if he is a Falchion user, which maybe maybe not it could go either way, 
I think he would use the awakened falchion, it isn't in heroes yet but it is the last Opus you get in warriors, and is in the end few chapters of the game (performs the awakening, becomes the awakener, sword glows Orange) Don't know what it would do for gameplay but at least the artwork would be very visually distinct from any other Falchion.

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6 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Just because it wasn't displayed doesn't mean it's out of character. You realize you're talking about an entire people group, not just the herons we see, right? It's canon that the herons have an aversion to violence because of biological limitations, but that's not the same as "given the choice and ability, every heron ever besides Reyson would choose not to fight." In fact, every heron we see enters combat somehow, despite the aversion to violence. Past precedent is not king. There are things you can surmise based on the trails that are left.

Anyway, I personally think we've gone on this long enough. You seem to really want Elena to use the emblem. Personally, I think that Elena would literally rather die, given her actions since coming in contact with the medallion. We already have Fallen Ashnard and he's probably as close to someone using the medallion as we're going to get unless Lehran himself uses it (not that I could see him doing that either since he and Altena (Altina?) worked so hard to stuff the darn bird into that thing.) So, Miciah, maybe. But not Elena.

THANK YOU. Seriously, the guy is probably my favorite 3H character -- maybe even more than Ashe.

That's speculation you've got there. IS ran the numbers themselves and released the stats of the sorts of players who voted for which winners. Everyone was pretty surprised that it was the loyal core of FEH (those who play consistently, logging on every day etc.) who voted for GK.

I think it's the opposite. Just because he's generic-looking and doesn't have a name, people think he's not a "real character," but what makes a character is the behavior. GK had plenty of true fans well before the voting took place. I don't get the attitude that people have thinking "it must be a meme because why else would anyone have this guy as a favorite?" Lots of people like GK because he's a great guy. The meme voters came in on it, too, but I think that was just because they saw the trend of his actual fans and were all "lol who dis?" And, unfortunately, wound up inflaming the community and drowning out the actual fans since it was easier for people who aren't his fans to understand the meme voters than those who actually like him.

Yes we see them enter combat, wherein they don't use a weapon, unlikenin Heroes where they do. Ultimately the medallion is a major part of Elena's character, it's one of the only things we can actually draw for to build something on her as a unit.  So if  it a weapon I would at least want to see it as a skill of some sort. Otherwise you're ignoring a big element of her.

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Yes we see them enter combat, wherein they don't use a weapon, unlikenin Heroes where they do. Ultimately the medallion is a major part of Elena's character, it's one of the only things we can actually draw for to build something on her as a unit.  So if  it a weapon I would at least want to see it as a skill of some sort. Otherwise you're ignoring a big element of her.

I'm not ignoring anything, but as I said, this discussion has gotten off topic. I've tried to explain my argument as well as I can, but at this point, I don't think we can actually get anywhere by discussing it anymore. So, I'm dropping it and leaving it as "IS will do what IS will do."

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Ultimately the medallion is a major part of Elena's character, it's one of the only things we can actually draw for to build something on her as a unit.  So if  it a weapon I would at least want to see it as a skill of some sort. Otherwise you're ignoring a big element of her.

It's true that it's a big element of her character, but equally true that, since she carries it precisely because she is one of the few people it doesn't affect, she wouldn't chose to use it to fight. A skill sounds right, maybe not representing the medallion itself but something referencing her order alignment, that lets her ignore debuffs, and called Medallion Bearer or something of the sort?

On topic, I'll vote for Soren, Nasir, Ena and Dorothea in that order, then adjust based on the midterm results. Not expecting to be very invested in who wins this time, though, unless F!Robin or Azura somehow get more support than the non-F!Byleth 3H units.

Edited by Kori
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I for myself am gonna vote for Bruno or one of the Askr trios to finally get a Brave alt. On midterm results if i see there is no chance ima switch my votes to something weird that has a chance at winning like Gatekeeper or some other unpopular Char. I just think the potential and freedom on those characters to create something weird/fun is much bigger then on some fixed lord/char. I am really kinda tired of seeing 3H or Lords getting the Brave treatment.

Besides with Ascendet Forms being a thing, there is potential for those popular characters to return anyway so pass.

Edited by Hilda
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