Just how important are weapon proficiency throughout the series?

[Armchair General]

While 3H actually provides some feedback on what benefits you receive by raising your units' proficiency within a given field; capping it at around +10 accuracy and some random bonuses to evasion or reducing your opponent's crit rate doesn't really feel as crucial as grinding out your riding and axe skills so you can have heavy cavalry during the endgame, or just preventing you from giving every swordsman in your team an Killing Edge for shits & giggles. Plus, I never had much of reason to wait until so and so was skilled enough to use an steel or brave weapon, unlike Awakening or Fates because this is 3H that I'm talking about. It's not like that it'll take several months to train someone up to D+.

Outside of 3H, I'm not seeing it have much of an effect going in 3DS games other than the weapon triangle forcing some random soldier to completely miss his counterattack and expanding your arsenal.

 

[Reality]

I feel like in GBA&Telius it wasn't very important, because the game's are so stingy with giving you the B/A weapons anyway. ~ Kind of a minor caveat for FE8 with the S rank "Sacred Weapons" but it's not that big a requirement really.

In Marth's Game's (Famicom and DS remakes)  it was super important and you could game the system because of the automatic rank for advancing your class.

For Jugdra it was mostly unimportant because advancing early/vs advanting late isn't really a decision anymore. Besides FE5 in particuar is LOADED with E rank "special" weapons that you can pass to virtually any charather you want (multible obtainable rapier, the light/fire sword, etc) 

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

5 hours ago, Armchair General said:

Outside of 3H, I'm not seeing it have much of an effect going in 3DS games other than the weapon triangle forcing some random soldier to completely miss his counterattack and expanding your arsenal.

The most interesting weapons are around Rank D-C (beyond bronze/iron weaponry): for Nohr that´s the effective weaponry they have at D, for Hoshido that´s the Dual Weapons at C. Also, the Lightning spell at C-rank.

As for the efects of the WT: It´s kinda important, especially on CQ Lunatic, because all enemies will have max weapon ranks (limited by class) and having WTD results in loss of weapon rank benefits alongside the additional debuff from having WTD. That´s relevant, because it can make reaching defensive thresholds, 1HKO etc. easier.

To put it into perspective: Ryoma with S-rank when attacking an enemy with S-rank will deal +4dmg/+5hit when being neutral, +6/+25hit if WTD on top of taking -2dmg/20hit and if negative will deal -6dmg/25hit and will take an additional +2dmg/20hit.

Unless I messed up the math.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Imuabicus

[ping]

2 hours ago, Reality said:

I feel like in GBA&Telius it wasn't very important, because the game's are so stingy with giving you the B/A weapons anyway. ~ Kind of a minor caveat for FE8 with the S rank "Sacred Weapons" but it's not that big a requirement really.

I think PoR weapon ranks are even less important than in the GBA games. Forged Steel Axes are a fine weapon throughout the game, Javelins and Hand Axes are E rank, a forged Thunder tome is practically equal to the A rank tomes (which can't be forged themselves). Haven't played RD in a long time, so I won't make a comment on that, though.

Killer weapons and effective weapons are very underwhelming, too, so reaching C rank is not a big deal at all. Contrast that to BinBla, where Killers become the default weapon type to use one they're buyable - and in general, low weapon ranks are a detriment for a handful of recruits: Treck (no Steel Swd on the Axe Islands), Tate and Zeiss (no Killer Lances before promoting), Bartre (not as impactful, but he'd be much better with C bows), promoted Bishops (lol Aureola), promoted Mages (Lilina with Physic would've been neat...), or Igrene (mostly in comparison with Klein, whose only advantage over her is Silver Bow access).

BlaBla and SacSto are much more generous with WEXP, so it's not as noticable, although there's still some specific cases like Rath (Brave Bow Y/N) where it makes a difference.

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, pong said:

I think PoR weapon ranks are even less important than in the GBA games. Forged Steel Axes are a fine weapon throughout the game, Javelins and Hand Axes are E rank, a forged Thunder tome is practically equal to the A rank tomes (which can't be forged themselves). Haven't played RD in a long time, so I won't make a comment on that, though.

Killer weapons and effective weapons are very underwhelming, too, so reaching C rank is not a big deal at all. Contrast that to BinBla, where Killers become the default weapon type to use one they're buyable - and in general, low weapon ranks are a detriment for a handful of recruits: Treck (no Steel Swd on the Axe Islands), Tate and Zeiss (no Killer Lances before promoting), Bartre (not as impactful, but he'd be much better with C bows), promoted Bishops (lol Aureola), promoted Mages (Lilina with Physic would've been neat...), or Igrene (mostly in comparison with Klein, whose only advantage over her is Silver Bow access).

BlaBla and SacSto are much more generous with WEXP, so it's not as noticable, although there's still some specific cases like Rath (Brave Bow Y/N) where it makes a difference.

Weapon ranks in Path of Radiance annoyed me because I went to great pains to train Soren in multiple  weapon ranks and it felt like he progressed at a snails pace. And then to add insult to injury there wasn't even S rank tomes in the majority of the tome types >.> But yeah, apart from not getting siege weapons at some point, it felt irrelevant for all other units. Helps that Path  of Radiance just doesn't feel challenging at all.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

17 hours ago, Armchair General said:

While 3H actually provides some feedback on what benefits you receive by raising your units' proficiency within a given field; capping it at around +10 accuracy and some random bonuses to evasion or reducing your opponent's crit rate doesn't really feel as crucial as grinding out your riding and axe skills so you can have heavy cavalry during the endgame, or just preventing you from giving every swordsman in your team an Killing Edge for shits & giggles. Plus, I never had much of reason to wait until so and so was skilled enough to use an steel or brave weapon, unlike Awakening or Fates because this is 3H that I'm talking about. It's not like that it'll take several months to train someone up to D+.

Outside of 3H, I'm not seeing it have much of an effect going in 3DS games other than the weapon triangle forcing some random soldier to completely miss his counterattack and expanding your arsenal.

In games that have playable Brave weapons, it's nice to get a unit to the rank needed for it (typically B or A). Silvers can be nice too, although they're not always essential (and they're quite costly). As for legendary weapons, most games only have one of each, so there's little motivation to train more than one unit up to a given S-rank. And they're often hindered by limited availability or low uses. That said, certain units (i.e. your Jagen, most mono-weapon units) will be able to reach S-rank without really trying.

In Three Houses, building your weapon ranks is less about the actual weapons you can use, and more about the skills, combat arts, and classes that come with higher ranks. Some of the strongest weapons in the game (Hero's Relics, the Rapier, low-Wt/high-Hit Training Weapons) can be used at E-rank. Even when it comes to spells, you'll often get the stronger ones (i.e. Physic, Seraphim, Thoron, Sagittae) by C-rank. There are, of course, exceptions - the A-rank Saintly Weapons range from good to great, while certain spells like Bolting or Warp may motivate a unit to keep training in Reason or Faith. In terms of skills, Prowess starts at E+, and builds at every plus-rank going forward. The Breaker skills at B-rank are often a welcome boon, too. Weapon crit +10 (or Magic range +1) at S-rank may be hard to reach, but the Magic version is definitely worth it. Finally, equippable Weaponfaire at S+-rank is very cool, but it's not something you're likely to achieve outside of NG+.

As for combat arts, these vary (like spells) on a unit-by-unit basis. Some get arts they really enjoy at C+ rank, like Lightning Axe on Annette or Vengeance on Bernadetta. Others have to wait until A-rank for cool tools, such as Swift Strikes on Seteth or Encloser on Claude. As for classes, sometimes the rank comes naturally (i.e. getting a Lance-heavy Cavalier to B-rank for Paladin), but other times you have to go out of your way for it (i.e. making Teach a Falcoknight who mostly fights with Swords). In these cases, you may raise weapon types not for anything having to do with the weapons themselves, but for the movement, stat, and skill advantages offered by the classes locked behind them.

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Weapon ranks in Path of Radiance annoyed me because I went to great pains to train Soren in multiple  weapon ranks and it felt like he progressed at a snails pace. And then to add insult to injury there wasn't even S rank tomes in the majority of the tome types >.> But yeah, apart from not getting siege weapons at some point, it felt irrelevant for all other units. Helps that Path  of Radiance just doesn't feel challenging at all.

It gets even worse in Radiant Dawn - not only is Ilyana robbed of the ability to use non-Thunder magic, but if you manage to promote her, she'll only have E-rank in Fire and Wind, transfer bonuses be damned! IMO a better model would be, using any "Anima" spell boosts all Anima ranks, but a unit's "specialty" magic type (i.e. Wind for Soren, Fire for Calill) will sit roughly one weapon rank above the others.

10 hours ago, pong said:

I think PoR weapon ranks are even less important than in the GBA games. Forged Steel Axes are a fine weapon throughout the game, Javelins and Hand Axes are E rank, a forged Thunder tome is practically equal to the A rank tomes (which can't be forged themselves). Haven't played RD in a long time, so I won't make a comment on that, though.

Hand Axes and Steel Axes being E-rank really makes me feel like Path of Radiance is a GBAFE game that just happens to be on the Gamecube. Not to mention, Iron Swords inexplicably having 46 uses, when other Iron Weapons have 45. I played Radiant Dawn first, and the difference between those weapon systems is honestly night and day (i.e. introducing Bronzes, Knives as a fully fleshed-out type, fewer effective weapons, no magic weapons). My probably-unpopular take is, if we ever get a unified Tellius remake or remaster, I'd like to see a consistent weapon/item system that borrows more heavily from RD than from PoR.

[Shadow Mir]

To be honest, I don't think it was that worthwhile in Fates outside of WTA purposes, since high-rank weapons (namely, anything above C rank) tended to have negative effects that discouraged frequent use. Regarding other games... Brave access sounds intriguing, but most games only give you one copy of brave weapons. Regarding GBA games, Scared Stones is the only one that made weapon proficiency even semi-important, and that was more than anything else because the final boss can only be significantly damaged by the Sacred Twins (Binding Blade and Blazing Blade make it such that irons and killers are your primary weapons for most of the game, with javelins and hand axes also being viable in the latter)

[Eltosian Kadath]

For curiosity sake, I think I will rank the ones that use the most common weapon rank system, starting from the game I think it is least important, and working my way to the one I think it is most important in. This led to some natural tier lists forming based on similar features of the systems

 

~ 1-2 range weapons are E rank, and Effective weapons D rank~

 

Path of Radiance: Forging is what really pushed this into it being the least important of the set. You can easily coast by on some good E rank forges for the entire game if you wanted to, especially with how the forging system limits the forges available...

Blazing Sword: The lack of forging means higher rank weapons aren't as useless, but an inventory full of E rank 1-2 range weapons is often your best bet.

Sacred Stones: Very similar Blazing Sword, but the S rank weapons aren't literally useless, so there is some incentive to get some weapon rank...by the very end of the game...

Binding Blade: Enemies having less embarrassingly bad stats makes having the ranks for stronger weapons slightly more useful, plus x3 effective damage, and some notable maps where that effective weapon comes in handy makes reaching a weapon rank higher than the minimum sometimes useful (and similar idea with the S rank weapons as with Sacred Stones).

 

~1-2 range weapons D rank, and effective weapons C rank~

 

Radiant Dawn: At least getting to D rank with most units matters, although with forging that is about as far as you need to go.

Thracia 776: There are a lot more varied and powerful weapons at higher ranks, with as much availability to them as you can steal/capture, a high weapon rank is actually rather useful in this game, but there are some oddities to it (like no A rank Axes at all, magic weapons only being E, C and A rank, etc.), plus their being a wide variety of prof. weapons that tend to be some of the best weapons, and require minimum weapon ranks.

 

~ Weapon Rank Bonus & WTA tied to weapon rank~

 

New Mystery: Numbers can be tight in this game, and the edge of a better weapon is useful, but the highest rank weapons are barely available, and a forging system lets you get away with lower ranks at times. On the other hand, even if you are using a low rank forge, the WR bonuses and WTA being tied to WR mean that a higher rank is still a way to give you a combat edge, as these aid both damage and accuracy, depending on the weapon type (and this holds true for all games in this tier).

Awakening: I gave this the edge over New Mystery thanks to higher rank weapons being more available, although I might reconsider their positions, as its a lot easier to just over power things with unit stats in this game...

Shadow Dragon: Getting to C rank for effective weapons is incredibly important to a LOT of units in this game, as forged effective weapons are the king of Shadow Dragon.

Fates: E rank being particularly bad (compared to the rest of the series at least) makes building that rank higher critical. Plus the infinite use of weapons, with drawbacks instead makes for a different dynamic that I find makes higher weapon ranks more valuable, as it makes higher rank weapons more available.

 

~Weapon Ranks tied to skill systems, and class-changing/promotion~

 

Three Houses: Weapon Ranks being involved in class-changing, and promotion is such a significant change that it makes weapon ranks more important than any other FE game. Learning skills through weapon ranks is just icing on that promotion cake.

 

I am sure there are ways to elaborate on this beyond my brief blurbs, but I think this is a start.