If Radiant Dawn had reclassing

[Jotari]

You know what it kind of bothers me that in Radiant Dawn Ilyana is the only character that can use Rexbolt because there's only one thunder mage. Just seems kind of wrong in a cast that big to have such little variation. The answer obviously isn't to add more characters of course, it's already the second largest cast in the series, but I do wonder what Radiant Dawn would be like with reclassing, as it was the game that came just before reclassing became a thing. It's also just weirdly dispersed as a game compared to the rest of the series due to it's army split up style. Usually there's about three of each class type in the game, but you'll only ever have access to one of them at a time. So it seems reclassing would just really fit Radiant Dawn more so than most other games that lacked it. Want more than one Sentinel in the Dawn Brigade? Reclass Nolan. It'd also make it possible for Dark Magic to actually be a thing you can use in the game if it's available for reclass options. So generally speaking, how would you feel abut reclassing in Radiant Dawn, and more specifically, assuming something similar to Fates style reclassing where units have a singnle alternate class, what classes would you like to see the existing units don.

[AnonymousSpeed]

The problem with doing Fates-style reclassing is that your Friendship Seals and Partner Seals wouldn't be able to work the same. Furthermore, some characters have different classes with the same names, so that'd need to be changed.

Still, I like Heart Seals. This also gives us a great opportunity to include classes that weren't in the original game, like female wind mages, tier 1 axe armors, or sword armors that are actually good. So I'll throw out some ideas. However, characters with unique classes (like the Burger King) and Laguz might not be able to reclass.

Spoiler

• Nolan: Dark/Thunder Mage (He has the highest magic growth of the Dawn Brigade's physical members)
• Aran: Armored Axe (take advantage of his tanky stats)
• Laura: Wind Mage
• Meg: Priest
• Brom: Bishop
• Danved: Dark Mage (Why not?)
• Makalov: Rogue (naturally)
• Mia: Warrior (the world needs more female fighters)
• Stefan: Dark Archsage (He's very special, so a special class fits him)

 

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

The problem with doing Fates-style reclassing is that your Friendship Seals and Partner Seals wouldn't be able to work the same. Furthermore, some characters have different classes with the same names, so that'd need to be changed.

Still, I like Heart Seals. This also gives us a great opportunity to include classes that weren't in the original game, like female wind mages, tier 1 axe armors, or sword armors that are actually good. So I'll throw out some ideas. However, characters with unique classes (like the Burger King) and Laguz might not be able to reclass.

  Hide contents

• Nolan: Dark/Thunder Mage (He has the highest magic growth of the Dawn Brigade's physical members)
• Aran: Armored Axe (take advantage of his tanky stats)
• Laura: Wind Mage
• Meg: Priest
• Brom: Bishop
• Danved: Dark Mage (Why not?)
• Makalov: Rogue (naturally)
• Mia: Warrior (the world needs more female fighters)
• Stefan: Dark Archsage (He's very special, so a special class fits him)

 

I feel like Meg really wants to be a Pegasus Knight, though I don't know if she'd be more stand out as a character by either leaning into that niche or leaning away from it.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Just now, Jotari said:

I feel like Meg really wants to be a Pegasus Knight, though I don't know if she'd be more stand out as a character by either leaning into that niche or leaning away from it.

Well, I guess the Dawn Brigade doesn't have a pegasus knight already, so the option might be nice. I just thought it would be fun for her and her dad to have parallel classes.

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Well, I guess the Dawn Brigade doesn't have a pegasus knight already, so the option might be nice. I just thought it would be fun for her and her dad to have parallel classes.

The obvious solution there is to make Brom a pegasus knight too!...or a wyvern I guess could work.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I feel like Meg really wants to be a Pegasus Knight, though I don't know if she'd be more stand out as a character by either leaning into that niche or leaning away from it.

Broke: "Meg would be better as a Pegasus Knight because her growths fit the class better."

Woke: "Meg would be better as a Pegasus Knight because it's a far better class than Sword Armor."

1 hour ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

• Nolan: Dark/Thunder Mage (He has the highest magic growth of the Dawn Brigade's physical members)
• Aran: Armored Axe (take advantage of his tanky stats)
• Laura: Wind Mage
• Meg: Priest
• Brom: Bishop
• Danved: Dark Mage (Why not?)
• Makalov: Rogue (naturally)
• Mia: Warrior (the world needs more female fighters)
• Stefan: Dark Archsage (He's very special, so a special class fits him)

Ooh, I like this list. Especially the thought of Warrior Mia. As for Danved, I think his reclass would be Dark Sage (what Pelleas starts as), because he's in a tier 2 class.

Anyway, here are some that I would add:

• Edward: Archer
• Leonardo: Myrmidon (bestie class swap? bestie class swap.)
• Astrid: Falcon Knight (finally, give her a good class that still fits nobility)
• Kieran: Axe General
• Oscar: Lance General (want to keep the "Cain & Abel" paralleling each other)
• Rolf: Warrior (he beefs up to emulate Boyd)
• Shinon: Fire Sage (of course he'd take any chance to kill Beast laguz)
• Soren: Druid, promotes to Summoner (he has a Dark affinity and black robes)

[Jotari]

People say Laguz would be excluded, and that would make sense for lore, but one could also just screw lore and give Laguz Beorc classes like the way Panne, Nowi and Tiki can reclass into general classes in Awakening. In which case, Path of Radiance has set precedent for Wind Mage Naesala. The Fruit Knife also gives Lethe an excuse to go Rogue.

10 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Edward: Archer
Leonardo: Myrmidon (bestie class swap? bestie class swap.)
 

I'm not sure this would add much to the Dawn Brigade as an army, since, well, those are two classes you get from the start anyway (putting aside notions of when reclassing would generally be available). Swapping hem wouldn't really add much aside from fiddling with stats, though I guess it might be nice to have two myrmidons or two archers in the early game, but even then Zihark is going to come along pretty quickly and step on the toes of having multiple early game myrmidons. Though I definitely do think the Dawn Brigade could do with a second archer. Another thing one might want to consider for Leo, Edward and Nolan specifically is that they get prf weapons, so it would be nice to stick them in a class where they can still use them, actually making all three of them cavalry wouldn't be remiss, it takes super long to get cavalry units in Radiant Dawn compared to other titles, and when you finally do, it's Fiona. On the other hand, Radiant Dawn early game isn't really designed for cavalry (that's one of the biggest things that hurt Fiona when you eventually do get her, though she has other things going against her too). The Desert Map certainly wouldn't be friendly to them, though Raise the Standard would work well with cavalry options.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Jotari

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

37 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm not sure this would add much to the Dawn Brigade as an army, since, well, those are two classes you get from the start anyway (putting aside notions of when reclassing would generally be available). Swapping hem wouldn't really add much aside from fiddling with stats, though I guess it might be nice to have two myrmidons or two archers in the early game, but even then Zihark is going to come along pretty quickly and step on the toes of having multiple early game myrmidons. Though I definitely do think the Dawn Brigade could do with a second archer. Another thing one might want to consider for Leo, Edward and Nolan specifically is that they get prf weapons, so it would be nice to stick them in a class where they can still use them, actually making all three of them cavalry wouldn't be remiss, it takes super long to get cavalry units in Radiant Dawn compared to other titles, and when you finally do, it's Fiona. On the other hand, Radiant Dawn early game isn't really designed for cavalry (that's one of the biggest things that hurt Fiona when you eventually do get her, though she has other things going against her too). The Desert Map certainly wouldn't be friendly to them, though Raise the Standard would work well with cavalry options.

On the one hand, I don't see mounted classes really fitting them well thematically. They're freedom fighters from the streets of Nevassa, after all. On the other hand, letting them keep access to their Prf weapons makes sense gameplay-wise. Edward and Nolan could go into Armor classes, but Leonardo doesn't get a "Bow Armor" option. So maybe mounted is the way to go after all? Cavalry could be good in 1-3, 1-6-2, and 3-12, but very few other Dawn Brigade maps are cavalry-friendly.

43 minutes ago, Jotari said:

People say Laguz would be excluded, and that would make sense for lore, but one could also just screw lore and give Laguz Beorc classes like the way Panne, Nowi and Tiki can reclass into general classes in Awakening. In which case, Path of Radiance has set precedent for Wind Mage Naesala. The Fruit Knife also gives Lethe an excuse to go Rogue.

But if Laguz can get into Beorc classes, should Beorc be able to enter into Laguz classes? Or would that be cultural appropriation? Plus, translating between the different level scales could get hairy.

A potential alternative would be to create alternate Laguz classes. Like, there could be an "armored" version of the Tiger class, or a version of the Raven that uses its wings for magical damage instead. The main thing I'd like to see is Laguz being able to do different attacks (either via the Skills systems, or introducing Combat Arts) - say, Lethe could spend more of her gauge to launch a high-crit strike, or Volke could use the Howl skill to attack at range. Something that makes them more interesting to use, y'know?

[AnonymousSpeed]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

The obvious solution there is to make Brom a pegasus knight too!...or a wyvern I guess could work.

Wyvern might be alright, but it could also be   t o o   s t r o n k .

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Ooh, I like this list. Especially the thought of Warrior Mia.

Oh yes, I very much like it as well. Ahem. Uh-

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

As for Danved, I think his reclass would be Dark Sage (what Pelleas starts as), because he's in a tier 2 class.

Aw, drat! And I was trying to be consistent with class tiers too. Good catch there.

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Edward: Archer

I'm not sold on Leonardo having Myrmidon (I think a magic class would be more fun for him), but Edward as an archer makes a lot of sense. It goes much better with his high strength and wrath.

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

 

• Kieran: Axe General
• Oscar: Lance General (want to keep the "Cain & Abel" paralleling each other)

 

I don't know, swapping cavalier for general sounds a little dull. Maybe Swordmaster Kieran and Sniper Oscar, which are still sort of parallel classes.

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Shinon: Fire Sage (of course he'd take any chance to kill Beast laguz)

Yay, racism!

42 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

But if Laguz can get into Beorc classes, should Beorc be able to enter into Laguz classes? Or would that be cultural appropriation? Plus, translating between the different level scales could get hairy.

Man, even Heroes hasn't given beast weapons to units that weren't beasts in the original. If they ain't givin' us Catgirl Mia they sure ain't givin' us the ability to make Geoffrey into a Blue Eyes White Dragon.

42 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Volke could use the Howl skill

Ayo hol' up

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

13 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Ayo hol' up

Shit, I meant Volug.

14 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I'm not sold on Leonardo having Myrmidon (I think a magic class would be more fun for him), but Edward as an archer makes a lot of sense. It goes much better with his high strength and wrath.

Wind Mage Leo could be pretty cool. No idea whether he'd be better or worse than his default Archer version. As for Eddie, getting an Archer with actual Strength and Speed would be welcome.

16 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I don't know, swapping cavalier for general sounds a little dull. Maybe Swordmaster Kieran and Sniper Oscar, which are still sort of parallel classes.

Well we've gotta give somebody Armored reclass options. Whaddya think this is, Fates: Conquest?

18 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Man, even Heroes hasn't given beast weapons to units that weren't beasts in the original. If they ain't givin' us Catgirl Mia they sure ain't givin' us the ability to make Geoffrey into a Blue Eyes White Dragon.

If Heroes ever does this, they'd better give us Wolf Wolf and Raven Raven. That's the only way I would find it acceptable. 

[AnonymousSpeed]

43 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Wind Mage Leo could be pretty cool.

I already had Laura as a wind mage, so I was thinking Priest or something else.

43 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Well we've gotta give somebody Armored reclass options. Whaddya think this is, Fates: Conquest?

It'd be a better game. Oh, snap!

44 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

If Heroes ever does this, they'd better give us Wolf Wolf and Raven Raven. That's the only way I would find it acceptable. 

That would be pretty slick, and after that we might consider Lion Leo. And Leon. And Leonardo.

But even if Heroes did eventually do that, it would probably be some weird Alternate Dimension thing, and not imply the ability of regular people to turn into cats.

[lenticular]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

People say Laguz would be excluded, and that would make sense for lore, but one could also just screw lore and give Laguz Beorc classes like the way Panne, Nowi and Tiki can reclass into general classes in Awakening. In which case, Path of Radiance has set precedent for Wind Mage Naesala. The Fruit Knife also gives Lethe an excuse to go Rogue.

Another option would be to give the Laguz access to Beorc classes, but have them use slightly different mechanics. Beorc units could have Awakening-style reclassing, where they each have their own personal set of available classes and no way to access other classes; on the other hand, Laguz could not have any inate reclassing options but be able to switch to the class of their support partner once they reach an A support, similar to Friendship Seal reclassing in Fates. In terms of lore, this would be because laguz are only willing to try their hand at Beorc fighting styles after they've learned first-hand how strong it can be.

Another possible problem with RD reclassing is that there are a lot of characters with unique or storyline classes. Just among Beorc characters (or those who have Beorc-like classes), Ike (Hero), Micaiah (Light Mage), Elincia (Queen), Sanaki (Empress), Volke (Assassin), Mist (Valkyrie), Black Knight (Black Knight), Pellaes (Dark Sage) and Sephiran (Chancellor) all have unique classes, and while Sothe's class isn't unique, he does have a storyline promotion which could make it awkward to reclass him. Would those characters be allowed to reclass? And would other characters be able to reclass into those classes? For instance, I could imagine Mist being a good fit for Elincia's class, except that it would make no sense for her to suddenly become a queen. It would be easy enough to get around by changing the class names, I guess. But then there's also the question of whether it would make these characters less "special" if they weren't unique any more.

In terms of possible reclass options, how about:

• Fiona: Pegasus Knight (fits her character well and would really help make the most of her free Savior skill)
• Sothe: Armour Axe (would fit his protective nature)
• Callil: Swordmaster (only the most elegant and graceful of weapons for such a lady, naturally)
• Nephenee: Sniper (some proficiency with a bow fits her character, and part 2 doesn't have a sniper otherwise)
• Oliver: Archsage (dark) (no way he isn't secretly a dark mage all along)
• Shinon: Rogue (has the right stat spread already, fits his scumbag character, more thief availability is always good)

[vanguard333]

I don't think reclassing would work well for Radiant Dawn; there's too many characters with unique classes, and it would also make laguz units even more disadvantaged than they already are.

[Radiant head]

Yeah though I think branched promotions could have been a cool idea

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, lenticular said:

 

Another possible problem with RD reclassing is that there are a lot of characters with unique or storyline classes. Just among Beorc characters (or those who have Beorc-like classes), Ike (Hero), Micaiah (Light Mage), Elincia (Queen), Sanaki (Empress), Volke (Assassin), Mist (Valkyrie), Black Knight (Black Knight), Pellaes (Dark Sage) and Sephiran (Chancellor) all have unique classes, and while Sothe's class isn't unique, he does have a storyline promotion which could make it awkward to reclass him. Would those characters be allowed to reclass? And would other characters be able to reclass into those classes? For instance, I could imagine Mist being a good fit for Elincia's class, except that it would make no sense for her to suddenly become a queen. It would be easy enough to get around by changing the class names, I guess. But then there's also the question of whether it would make these characters less "special" if they weren't unique any more.

 

Characters with unique class (or semi unique since they shared them with their children) were able to freely reclass in Awakening in Fates (though not in Shadows of Valentia's). So I wouldn't see much issue with such characters being able to reclass out of their prf classes, while no other character can reclass into it (except Volke, I think Assassin could work as a regular class, possibly Mist's Cleric and Valkyrie too, as these are less exclusive classes and more like Ilyana's "there's just one character with this class" situations). So say Ike could get a Warrior reclass to build up his axe rank in part 3 while no other unit could go Hero. The only issue there is the story line promotions, but I think they could just have Warrior promote to Vanguard to get the plot based promotion across. Specifically for the characters with unique classes I would go

Ike->Warrior/Reaver (lets him focus on Axes)

Micaiah->Dark Mage/Dark Sage/Archsage (admittedly inspired by them randomly giving her Shadow Touch in Awakening)

Elincia -> Trueblade (Just like Lucia, but also so she can still use Amiti and get those quad striking attacks)

Sanaki -> Queen (Okay, screw what I said above, Queen is non specific enough that it fits for Sanaki, in addition it lets her still be in a magic class without relying on becoming an Archsage, which is basically what Empress is, and it gives her a connection to her Pegasus guards by having a Pegasus class. Queen just fits too well for Sanaki. Plus her second map is a desert one, so good for gameplay there).

Volke -> Marksman (Kind of playing off of the Assasins having bows in Awakening, but also I just feel as if swiftly taking out enemies (especially with a crossbow) from afar would suit Volke).

Mist -> Bishop/Saint (simple enough, lets her still use staves as well as put her magic stat to use with light magic)

Black Knight: I don't think he should be allowed to reclass given you later fight him as an enemy.

Pelleas -> Wyvern Knight/Lord (as a throw back to his father, yes, I know Ashnard isn't really his father, but it's still a throwback I like)

Sephiran: The most fun and obvious reclass for him would be Heron (I know, I know it wouldn't be lore supported, but seeing a gray heron would be cool, or wait is he a black heron?), but it's kind of a moot point as you acquire him in the final map which (depending on how reclassing is handled) could be after you're even able to reclass units. If he must get a reclass via a mid map heart seal (and one that doesn't contradict lore), then I think he could comfortably go Arch Sage given he can't naturally use Anima magic.

7 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

But even if Heroes did eventually do that, it would probably be some weird Alternate Dimension thing, and not imply the ability of regular people to turn into cats.

I was thinking they could do it for Seasonals in the form of characters wearing costumes rather than actually transforming. It'd be kind of funny and it would get more beast units into the game without relying on the same half dozen or so characters.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Jotari

[NinjaMonkey]

On 1/5/2022 at 10:28 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Shinon: Fire Sage (of course he'd take any chance to kill Beast laguz)

Shinon can only fight Beast Laguz in 4-5, because he's allied with them, along with the rest of the Greil Mercenaries, in Part 3.

On 1/5/2022 at 9:01 PM, Jotari said:

I feel like Meg really wants to be a Pegasus Knight, though I don't know if she'd be more stand out as a character by either leaning into that niche or leaning away from it.

A Pegasus Knight in Daein would stand out like a sore thumb given that Daein doesn't use Pegasus Knights in their army.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

27 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Shinon can only fight Beast Laguz in 4-5, because he's allied with them, along with the rest of the Greil Mercenaries, in Part 3

Alas, what a shame that the Dawn Brigade can't recruit Shinon in Part 3. "Get in loser, we're going Laguz hunting."

28 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

A Pegasus Knight in Daein would stand out like a sore thumb given that Daein doesn't use Pegasus Knights in their army.

Ah, but Meg is from Crimea, a country where the Queen herself rides a Pegasus into battle!

[NinjaMonkey]

48 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Ah, but Meg is from Crimea, a country where the Queen herself rides a Pegasus into battle!

That's why I said that she's stand out like a sore thumb.

[AnonymousSpeed]

1 hour ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Shinon can only fight Beast Laguz in 4-5, because he's allied with them, along with the rest of the Greil Mercenaries, in Part 3.

This is hilarious. Does the game ever acknowledge this? It sounds like torture for the poor boy.

46 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Alas, what a shame that the Dawn Brigade can't recruit Shinon in Part 3. "Get in loser, we're going Laguz hunting."

I've never seen Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

46 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Ah, but Meg is from Crimea, a country where the Queen herself rides a Pegasus into battle!

Advantages of outsourcing. Besides, it's a reclass.

21 hours ago, lenticular said:

Beorc units could have Awakening-style reclassing, where they each have their own personal set of available classes and no way to access other classes; on the other hand, Laguz could not have any inate reclassing options but be able to switch to the class of their support partner once they reach an A support, similar to Friendship Seal reclassing in Fates. In terms of lore, this would be because laguz are only willing to try their hand at Beorc fighting styles after they've learned first-hand how strong it can be.

I actually really like this idea, I wouldn't mind seeing it at all.

15 hours ago, Jotari said:

Black Knight: I don't think he should be allowed to reclass given you later fight him as an enemy.

Secret Hack: Reclass him to a class that can't fight back in the tower.

15 hours ago, Jotari said:

I was thinking they could do it for Seasonals in the form of characters wearing costumes rather than actually transforming. It'd be kind of funny and it would get more beast units into the game without relying on the same half dozen or so characters.

It does sound a bit funny, but I don't know. It's not like Catboy Grima is a beast unit, although that is just one unit. I still think it's a little weird, especially since a costume doesn't really explain the transformation mechanic.

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Secret Hack: Reclass him to a class that can't fight back in the tower.

 

Merlinus Zelgius!

[ciphertul]

1 minute ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Secret Hack: Reclass him to a class that can't fight back in the tower.

Funny enough there is no class that he couldn't fight in as Priest/Bishop/Saint's could all staff bash.

[AnonymousSpeed]

3 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

Funny enough there is no class that he couldn't fight in as Priest/Bishop/Saint's could all staff bash.

Zelgius finna come at Ike using Alondite like this:

[ciphertul]

1 minute ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Zelgius finna come at Ike using Alondite like this:

The murder stroke had it's uses but... Anti-Ike may not be one of them.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 1/6/2022 at 3:23 AM, Jotari said:

Ike->Warrior/Reaver (lets him focus on Axes)

Urvan Ike? Urvan Ike.

On 1/6/2022 at 3:23 AM, Jotari said:

Micaiah->Dark Mage/Dark Sage/Archsage (admittedly inspired by them randomly giving her Shadow Touch in Awakening)

Micaiah also has a dark affinity, and she plays host to a being called "the Dark God". This definitely works.

On 1/6/2022 at 3:23 AM, Jotari said:

Elincia -> Trueblade (Just like Lucia, but also so she can still use Amiti and get those quad striking attacks)

Damn, this would be cool. Queen will be better, but infantry sword lady Elincia is a mood.

On 1/6/2022 at 3:23 AM, Jotari said:

Mist -> Bishop/Saint (simple enough, lets her still use staves as well as put her magic stat to use with light magic)

From a flavor perspective, I would give Mist Light Sage and Light Priestess. She bears certain similarities to Micaiah, from her amulet abilities to their portraits basically being recolors of each other.

17 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

That's why I said that she's stand out like a sore thumb.

The Dawn Brigade already stands out, because "silver hair" is somehow notable in a world with technicolor hair possibilities.

[Radiant head]

i think beorc becoming laguz only makes sense if they are branded like Micaiah or Soren and even then the idea is pretty ehhh