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lasagnacat

3h no monastery run rules.

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i intend on doing one of these soon with the blue lions class, but am not entirely sure what the rules are for this. ive never done a challenge run/speedrun of a game before this. What kind of things are excluded from being available and what am i allowed to do? i understand theres no set ruleset for things like this but what is the most common?

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I don't think there's any standard.  Everybody does their own set of rules that make sense for them, so there isn't even a common / accepted version.  The main question is how much you want to amp up the challenge / difficulty - stricter rulesets will usually be more difficult, and you can carve loopholes for yourself if you like.

  • The absolute strictest is a minimalist playthrough that spams "Skip" whenever possible, which is equivalent to mass Rest actions.  That's really a different kind of run that's a bit more extreme than merely no-monastery, though.  More literally, no monastery would allow seminars, paralogues, and auxiliary battles.
  • When you are truly forced to visit the monastery early (think either C5 or C6 is truly forced, can't even skip it?  I forget...), do you allow yourself to do whatever you like, or do you restrict yourself to just certain mandatory events then end your time?  For example, doing the Saint Statue quest is pretty potent, even if you never return to upgrade it further.  If you allow yourself some cheater extra Monastery explores, restricting what you can do during them may help keep the spirit of the challenge.
  • Do you allow sandbagging / grinding?  This may help alleviate skill woes but may defeat the point if you trade monastery tedium for "pass around an experience / knowledge gem while taking damage from the last two enemies on the map so that the healers can use all their spells for XP" tedium.  Obviously difficult to define precisely, but you know it when you see it.
  • Similarly, do you cut yourself any exceptions for recruitment or the dancer quest?  Strictly speaking, recruitment should be rare-to-impossible unless done with the forced Explores early, and you'll skip the Dancer quest, but this may not be actually fun.  If you want to do the Dancer quest and then pass all your remaining actions, nobody is going to penalize your run points.  Also, you are probably using just the Lions, the Ashen Wolves (if recruited during the early forced explores), Anna, and eventually Gilbert unless you cut yourself an exception for doing a little quick recruitment at the monastery, or really make a focus of bribing the one or two targets you can get during forced explores early.
  • Might be worth deciding in advance if you allow save scumming class exams.  Since both skills and money will be a big deal (unless you do some major aux battle grinding?), allowing save scumming can potentially save a lot of money later on - Master Seals aren't cheap when you're not getting free ones from the Arena!  If you're not allowing save scumming, that makes aiming for less skill XP class build paths more important.
Edited by SnowFire

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I can't speak as to what's most common, but I can say what rules I used when I did my no-monastery run:

  • Exploring the monastery was only allowed when it was forced. When it is forced, you must end exploration as quickly as possible and the only allowable actions in the monastery are the ones that are required.
  • Paralogue battles are allowed, but other auxiliary battles are not allowed (except for the one mandatory one near the start of the game).
  • Seminars are also banned. (From memory, I don't think there are any times when they are forced. I think there's one instance where the game blocks off most other choices, but you're still allowed to Rest or Skip past it. If I'm misremembering and there is a forced one, that would be fair game, though.)
  • Except for doing paralogues or performing forced actions, the only choices that you are allowed to make are Rest or Skip.
  • Manual tutoring is forbidden. All tutoring must be automated or skipped (which effectively amounts to the same thing).
  • Setting study goals is permitted.
  • Having people take exams is permitted.
  • Using the merchant, battalion guild and forge through game menus is permitted (although you won't have access to the forge until part 2, since you can't complete the monastery quest that unlocks it).
  • Answering lecture questions to gain professor level is allowed, since it's unavoidable.
  • Hosting tea parties for characters' birthday is forbidden.
  • I allowed myself to set group tasks once at the beginning of Part 1 and then once at the beginning of Part 2, but not to change it otherwise. A purer version of the challenge probably wouldn't allow this at all, but I didn't want to be without the money and the smithing stones.
  • Other forms of grinding and exploits (eg, broken weapon grinding) were forbidden.

That's about everything that I can think of. If there's anything specific that you're curious about that I haven't mentioned, feel free to ask.

7 minutes ago, SnowFire said:

Might be worth deciding in advance if you allow save scumming class exams.  Since both skills and money will be a big deal (unless you do some major aux battle grinding?), allowing save scumming can potentially save a lot of money later on - Master Seals aren't cheap when you're not getting free ones from the Arena!  If you're not allowing save scumming, that makes aiming for less skill XP class build paths more important.

 It isn't just the cost of Master Seals that's an issue; it's also how many of them are available. Without the monastery, you don't have access to Anna's shop at all, which is the only place you can get an unlimited number of them. Without that you're limited to 1 that you get when you first have a character hit level 30, 5 that are available from the regular merchant, and then potentially a few extra that are stealable at various points. Despite that, I still didn't allow myself to save scum class exams. When I failed an exam, that just meant one fewer person I could potentially put into a Master class. (I may be a bit of a masochist?)

Edited by lenticular

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Another run that's similar that I could recommend is the Three Houses Minimalist run, (Credit to OriginalRaisins for making this document, it wasn't me) since it essentially accomplishes what you're setting out to do. I think it can get pretty tough, but the game can be completed even on Maddening with this ruleset.

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I think the ruleset depends on what you want to accomplish with the run.

When I did mine, my goal was to shave off all the things which waste time. So I certainly didn't ban things like seminars (which only barely take more time than hitting Rest), nor did I ban things like doing the dancer quest or the saint statues, which take almost no time in exchange for big rewards. I did ban instruction and most of the things that eat time during explore (meals, gardening, fishing, choir, any arena run past the first per month, etc.) which in turn made explore itself a pretty bad/situational option. (And also banned aux fights obviously.)

Obviously you can go a step further and ban seminars and dancer/saint statue quests, which certainly ups the challenge. Do whatever you think you'll enjoy.

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