Stories You'd love to see for Main Lords in Future FE

[vanguard333]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think that was kind of the big idea behind Hector even if his succession to Ostia is more of a side plot compared to the Black Fang and Nergal .

I honestly didn't know that; I never played Eliwood & Hector's game.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

Also a fair point. I wasn`t sure if it was just a gag or a real comparison, but yeah, that is the biggest difference.  

Where some people choose to make a gag, and others chose to make a legitimate comparison, I dare to do both!

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I would like to see a lord due that's a pair of siblings with inverted gender roles. 

The younger sister is a buff, foul mouthed, wacky and alcoholic axe user with a hidden heart of gold, while the older brother is a dainty, sensitive priest boy. Kinda like if Dagr and Forrest were co stars of a story. 

I think that was kind of the big idea behind Hector even if his succession to Ostia is more of a side plot compared to the Black Fang and Nergal .

You also kind of lose any "twist" in regards to that since Hector becoming Marquis is a foregone conclusion (well, unless you were one of the og crowd who played it and were denied the previous game when emulation wasn't a huge thing).

[FlyingKitsune]

6 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

As much as the idea of the protagonist being just a normal dude sounds nice, I'd be cautious of how that works in practice. In something like Fire Emblem, with a large cast of characters and events that affect large groups of people, you kind of expect there to be something special about the main character. Not all the tropes of Russian literature can be practically applied.

Hrmm, that's true. Maybe a commander on the higher side of the ladder would work? Perhaps they would help lead a group separate from the king's, while they would occasionally join up with the king to push back against invading forces.

[DoomRPG]

4 hours ago, FlyingKitsune said:

Hrmm, that's true. Maybe a commander on the higher side of the ladder would work? Perhaps they would help lead a group separate from the king's, while they would occasionally join up with the king to push back against invading forces.

To go along with this plot idea from a more gameplay side of things.

Perhaps you could include a Thracia style fatigue with a third option. You can send troops to help the king out. And if he reaches stat benchmarks of help received you get rewards in a cutscene.

(I say stat benchmarks so you can't just throw units you bench. Presumably they'd be high enough you'd need to send some decently leveled units the King's way.)

And units that get sent are max'd fatigued when you get them next.

Maybe even secret gaiden chapters can be unlocked by sending a thief or staff user at the king on certain chapters.

[vanguard333]

19 hours ago, FlyingKitsune said:

I'd like for a main character to be a mere soldier, just your average dude. They don't have any connections to the in game equialent of a lord like Kris, nor are they particularly well known. Maybe they can start off on the bad guys' army before defecting to the other side with their squad, who knows. For the final fight, while the king is fighting the main BBEG, the soldier can be fighting elite troops to defend the people elsewhere. That'd be interesting.

So... Ike? The only real difference is that he's a rookie merc rather than a soldier, but he's still an FE main lord that's "just your average dude".

[lenticular]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

So... Ike? The only real difference is that he's a rookie merc rather than a soldier, but he's still an FE main lord that's "just your average dude".

Ike is the son of the most renowned swordsman of his generation and one of the only non-herons with sufficient inner balance to touch Lehran's Medallion without negative consequence. It's not as extreme as "secretly the Emperor's son", "secretly a dragon" or "secretly a god", but he's still a long way from being just an average dude.

[joevar]

15 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

As much as the idea of the protagonist being just a normal dude sounds nice, I'd be cautious of how that works in practice. In something like Fire Emblem, with a large cast of characters and events that affect large groups of people, you kind of expect there to be something special about the main character. Not all the tropes of Russian literature can be practically applied.

exactly, traditional JRPG kind of story still make sense if the MC and the rest of his group are just some ordinary rag tag group. since its always less than 10 people, and only attack key figure, or critical point of interest. But when its a size of a platoon, it makes less sense if the leader are just your everyday mob character (that also somehow manage to topple another nation army thats always several times bigger than them)

On 1/11/2022 at 4:13 AM, Metal Flash said:

Lastly, I think a duo of a royal couple would be interesting to see. 

isnt Alm and Celica actually just that?

but of course it doesnt feel like that since their campaign feels disconnected mostly, and they only meet halfway in the campaign once, and later at the very end. so the couple things actually happen after the game end. You dont know how i disappointed i was when realizing thats the case after all that hype seeing the SoV box artwork

3 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

So... Ike? The only real difference is that he's a rookie merc rather than a soldier, but he's still an FE main lord that's "just your average dude"

nope. definitely not. i mean, try to say Ike is just "average" in large FE discussion without any context... not even average "lord" ,which already make it higher than "average dude", will still be acceptable im sure by many people. (i've done that iirc, either you're treated as a joke or a jerk XD)

Edited January 12, 2022 by joevar

[vanguard333]

2 hours ago, lenticular said:

Ike is the son of the most renowned swordsman of his generation and one of the only non-herons with sufficient inner balance to touch Lehran's Medallion without negative consequence. It's not as extreme as "secretly the Emperor's son", "secretly a dragon" or "secretly a god", but he's still a long way from being just an average dude.

1. That first one doesn't make him any less a peasant rookie mercenary and he's still an average guy. He's an "average guy" with an exceptional fencing teacher, but an "average guy" nonetheless.

2. No, he isn't able to touch the medallion without ill-effects. Only his sister is able to touch the medallion. In fact, to prove to Ike what the medallion could do, Volke asks Ike if he ever even touched the medallion, and Ike answers no; his father made sure he never did.

 

1 hour ago, joevar said:

nope. definitely not. i mean, try to say Ike is just "average" in large FE discussion without any context... not even average "lord" ,which already make it higher than "average dude", will still be acceptable im sure by many people. (i've done that iirc, either you're treated as a joke or a jerk XD)

But he is; he's not nobility, he's not royalty, he isn't a chosen one; he's a peasant rookie mercenary. If we were comparing FE main lords to incarnations of Link from The Legend of Zelda, he'd be Wind Waker Link: the only one that isn't a chosen incarnation, the only one that isn't destined to wield a legendary item, etc.

[joevar]

5 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

But he is; he's not nobility, he's not royalty, he isn't a chosen one; he's a peasant rookie mercenary. If we were comparing FE main lords to incarnations of Link from The Legend of Zelda, he'd be Wind Waker Link: the only one that isn't a chosen incarnation, the only one that isn't destined to wield a legendary item, etc.

i thought i guess wrong so didnt include it, but turns out right. which is using "not nobility = average guy". what if a person is a former noble either from relinquishing their right/disinheritance/disgraced/etc, does that mean he/she is downgrade to become an average guy since now they barely lives comfortably? surely not just that. Ike might be rookie in terms of experience but he still stand out. not just going with flow obediently like a simple soldier, never giving thought to complicated stuff. majority of human hold prejudice against laguz but Ike never done that, average guy should have done what most people do. Also Im willing to believe that Ike is average guy if Radiant Dawn did not exist.

if anything, Kris should be the perfect example of average guy in FE. Because so many player raise an eyebrow when seeing every character in New Mystery love/like/fawn over Kris in every occasion, which people feel should not happen to that extent considering its just Kris. Or in other words, if its a very outstanding guy/girl, and so many people like them, people would not feel too weird about it. hence why kris is the actual average guy in my opinion, since people feel weirded by that.

[lenticular]

44 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

1. That first one doesn't make him any less a peasant rookie mercenary and he's still an average guy. He's an "average guy" with an exceptional fencing teacher, but an "average guy" nonetheless.

2. No, he isn't able to touch the medallion without ill-effects. Only his sister is able to touch the medallion. In fact, to prove to Ike what the medallion could do, Volke asks Ike if he ever even touched the medallion, and Ike answers no; his father made sure he never did.

Sorry, I can see how what I wrote could be misinterpreted. I wasn't saying that Ike himself can touch the medallion; I'm saying that he is the son of someone who could. That is: Ike is the son of Gawain and Elena; Gawain was the most renowned swordsman of his generation while Elena was one of the only non-herons with sufficient inner balance to touch Lehran's Medallion without negative consequence. Both his parents were extraordinary people.

He didn't inherit any mystical chosen one powers from them, but his lineage gave him a lot of opportunities and advantages that a random average guy wouldn't have. For instance:

• He inherited command of the Greil Mercenaries entirely because he was his father's son. He was neither the best fighter in the group (that would be Titania) nor the best strategist (which would be Soren). He got the position entirely by nepotism. Of the mercenaries who stayed around under his command, loyalty to Greil was a major motivating factor. ("He had faith in you, and I've got faith in him." -- Boyd, Ch.8 base conversation.)
• He had the ear of the King of Gallia. Caineghis was willing to give him the time of day, in large part because of his relationship with Greil and because he had known Ike when he was a baby.
• Tauroneo -- General of Daein, formerly of the Four Riders -- is willing to surrender instantly to Ike as soon as he realises who his father was.
• He only had possession of Ragnel because of his father. He literally picked it up off the ground after both The Black Knight and Greil had thrown it away.
• Elena's history with Lilia was a major part of how he won Reyson's respect and friendship.

[Metal Flash]

3 hours ago, joevar said:

isnt Alm and Celica actually just that?

but of course it doesnt feel like that since their campaign feels disconnected mostly, and they only meet halfway in the campaign once, and later at the very end. so the couple things actually happen after the game end. You dont know how i disappointed i was when realizing thats the case after all that hype seeing the SoV box artwork

They become one at the end, yes. I was thinking more along the lines of a ruling couple already married and already ruling their kingdom.  

[DoomRPG]

6 minutes ago, Metal Flash said:

They become one at the end, yes. I was thinking more along the lines of a ruling couple already married and already ruling their kingdom.  

Hmm. This idea has some potential. Particularly if the start of the game has them despise each other for an array of reasons. (Crashing personalities. Arranged marriage one, or both, parties didn't want. All sorts of drama really.) With mutual character development leading to something of a proper romance.

Wasn't really interested at the idea at first when you brought it up. But under this lens I think I'm actually quite fond of it.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, lenticular said:

Ike is the son of the most renowned swordsman of his generation and one of the only non-herons with sufficient inner balance to touch Lehran's Medallion without negative consequence. It's not as extreme as "secretly the Emperor's son", "secretly a dragon" or "secretly a god", but he's still a long way from being just an average dude.

I've said it ready but no one seems to have noticed...Kris. Kris is just a random average dude. Being humble about that fact is the most defining trait of the character.

[joevar]

15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

've said it ready but no one seems to have noticed...Kris. Kris is just a random average dude. Being humble about that fact is the most defining trait of the character.

1 hour ago, joevar said:

if anything, Kris should be the perfect example of average guy in FE.

actually i did, but sorry i didnt quote you even though i support the same idea. (but for different reason)

searching the page again, turn out you said it in previous page, hence forgot to quote it in this page in my previous post

1 hour ago, Metal Flash said:

They become one at the end, yes. I was thinking more along the lines of a ruling couple already married and already ruling their kingdom.  

so, actually closer to character like Pent & Louise in FE7 ? i want that to happen, but i shudder thinking that people will forcefully push the idea that one of them will have secret lover, or option to end up with someone else, breaking of the established marriage by virtue of support mechanic. FE people and their matchmaker tendency, lol.

personally i want a lasting couple not just matching for the sake of matching

Edited January 12, 2022 by joevar

[Jotari]

Actually we do have Deirdre and Sigurd as a Lord in a committed relationship. Though Deirdre isn't really co-lord even though she's an important character. And it doesn't really last long. But it's certainly a sounding board for how people feel about a Lord in such a scenario. And, while we haven't had a remake yet, people don't seem upset that Sigurd is taken, so to speak. Most complaints are about how poorly executed the relationship is.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Jotari

[Metal Flash]

3 hours ago, DoomRPG said:

Hmm. This idea has some potential. Particularly if the start of the game has them despise each other for an array of reasons. (Crashing personalities. Arranged marriage one, or both, parties didn't want. All sorts of drama really.) With mutual character development leading to something of a proper romance.

Yup, that`s what I was thinking. At first, the pair do not like each other, maybe have their families be sworn enemies and their marriage was done to secure an alliance, but over time, they grow to see the good in one another and eventually fall in love. The growth would be gradual and be equal for both parties, no "jealous woman/idiot man" type of dynamic. They could notice good points about each other early, but not properly acknowledge them until later. Ideally I would want them to avoid too many scenes of them arguing though, as it would just get repetitive and boring after a while.

2 hours ago, joevar said:

so, actually closer to character like Pent & Louise in FE7 ? i want that to happen, but i shudder thinking that people will forcefully push the idea that one of them will have secret lover, or option to end up with someone else, breaking of the established marriage by virtue of support mechanic. FE people and their matchmaker tendency, lol.

personally i want a lasting couple not just matching for the sake of matching

Pretty much yeah, a pair of Lords already married to each other from the beginning. As I said above, they could start not liking each other but grow into their feelings over time. 

Well, they did give Gilbert and Alois platonic S-supports in Three Houses, and never broke up their marriages for the sake of shipping. However, I do have the same concern now that you mention it.

[Eltosian Kadath]

I think a large scale succession crisis would make for an interesting story, as the old King dies with no legitimate heirs, warfare breaks out with numerous relatives of the dead king raising armies to claim the empty throne for themselves, with the main Lord being an illegitimate child staking their claim. Starting as a mostly internal conflict, with kin clashing with kin, until some of the neighboring kingdoms join the conflict with their own puppet claimants to prop up on the empty throne.

[AnonymousSpeed]

10 hours ago, joevar said:

exactly, traditional JRPG kind of story still make sense if the MC and the rest of his group are just some ordinary rag tag group. since its always less than 10 people, and only attack key figure, or critical point of interest. But when its a size of a platoon, it makes less sense if the leader are just your everyday mob character (that also somehow manage to topple another nation army thats always several times bigger than them)

Agreed.

Furthermore, with a traditional JRPG or a book (especially a book), you're able to devote more narrative resources to the development of the cast in the main story, and the plot doesn't have to focus on creating large battles. This flexibility makes it so the "normal guy" aspects of the character can actually matter or receive focus and development. You just can't adapt Crime and Punishment to an SRPG.

7 hours ago, lenticular said:

He didn't inherit any mystical chosen one powers from them, but his lineage gave him a lot of opportunities and advantages that a random average guy wouldn't have. For instance:

Yeah, pretty much. I don't really like the whole "privilege" notion, but Ike certainly has it. He didn't get his contract with royalty through hard work and determination, and he isn't able to wield Ragnell because he's worthy of the powers of Thor. That's not to say Ike merely inherits success, he doesn't screw up these opportunities, but the same could be said of Marth, Roy, etc.

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

I've said it ready but no one seems to have noticed...Kris. Kris is just a random average dude. Being humble about that fact is the most defining trait of the character.

And yet people generally like Ike while disparaging Kris. I suppose people just don't like faux humility*.

*- It's clearly earnest on the part of Kris, but is also clearly overdone and therefore comes across as disingenuous flattery.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

And yet people generally like Ike while disparaging Kris. I suppose people just don't like faux humility*.

*- It's clearly earnest on the part of Kris, but is also clearly overdone and therefore comes across as disingenuous flattery.

Yeah it's funny. Earnest of Kris but not earnestof the game.

[vanguard333]

19 hours ago, joevar said:

i thought i guess wrong so didnt include it, but turns out right. which is using "not nobility = average guy". what if a person is a former noble either from relinquishing their right/disinheritance/disgraced/etc, does that mean he/she is downgrade to become an average guy since now they barely lives comfortably? surely not just that. Ike might be rookie in terms of experience but he still stand out. not just going with flow obediently like a simple soldier, never giving thought to complicated stuff. majority of human hold prejudice against laguz but Ike never done that, average guy should have done what most people do. Also Im willing to believe that Ike is average guy if Radiant Dawn did not exist.

1. Interesting question, though I fail to see how it's relevant given that Ike is not a former noble; he was born a peasant and raised as a peasant. To answer your question though, I'd say it all depends.

2. Are you suggesting that Ike would have to be racist to be average? He isn't racist because that's part of his personality and how he thinks; not because of his upbringing. All his upbringing did was make it that he didn't know much about the laguz by the time he met one... which would be true for most Crimean commoners, given what we see.

3. Radiant Dawn is a sequel; of course he's famous in Radiant Dawn; he pretty much spearheaded Crimea's victory in the Mad King's War. Suppose an FE game was made where the main FE lord was a simple soldier, and then they're famous in the sequel thanks to their actions in the previous game; does that disqualify them from having been an "average guy"?

 

18 hours ago, lenticular said:

Sorry, I can see how what I wrote could be misinterpreted. I wasn't saying that Ike himself can touch the medallion; I'm saying that he is the son of someone who could. That is: Ike is the son of Gawain and Elena; Gawain was the most renowned swordsman of his generation while Elena was one of the only non-herons with sufficient inner balance to touch Lehran's Medallion without negative consequence. Both his parents were extraordinary people.

He didn't inherit any mystical chosen one powers from them, but his lineage gave him a lot of opportunities and advantages that a random average guy wouldn't have. For instance:

• He inherited command of the Greil Mercenaries entirely because he was his father's son. He was neither the best fighter in the group (that would be Titania) nor the best strategist (which would be Soren). He got the position entirely by nepotism. Of the mercenaries who stayed around under his command, loyalty to Greil was a major motivating factor. ("He had faith in you, and I've got faith in him." -- Boyd, Ch.8 base conversation.)
• He had the ear of the King of Gallia. Caineghis was willing to give him the time of day, in large part because of his relationship with Greil and because he had known Ike when he was a baby.
• Tauroneo -- General of Daein, formerly of the Four Riders -- is willing to surrender instantly to Ike as soon as he realises who his father was.
• He only had possession of Ragnel because of his father. He literally picked it up off the ground after both The Black Knight and Greil had thrown it away.
• Elena's history with Lilia was a major part of how he won Reyson's respect and friendship.

Oh; that's what you meant. Okay, but I'd say that neither parent makes Ike extraordinary.

• Him being heir to the mercenary company is a fair point, but that's just it: a mercenary company, and not exactly a large one. He's the heir to a small business consisting of ten people who, if not for the war, would be barely making a living fighting bandits in the Crimean countryside. That's the medieval fantasy equivalent of being the heir to a tiny indie game studio.
• His dad had a friend in a high place during his time on the run from Daein; I will give you that. I will just say that that friendship had nothing to do with Greil's former position as rider of daein.
• That's rather small, but I suppose it's fair.
• That one's reaching; as you said, he has Ragnell because he picked it up after the fight. It was not his father's sword, nor was it a sword only he could wield because of his father; it was a sword he just grabbed and only thought of using after finding out that it was the only thing that could kill the Black Knight. He even gives it to Begnion after the war's over. You're saying that he only gets a legendary sword because of his father when he literally scavenged it.
• That's not true at all; he already had Reyson's respect and friendship by the time that either of them found out about Elena's history with Lilia. He got Reyson's respect and friendship because of his decision to protect Leanne after finding her in the Serenes Forest.

 

17 hours ago, Jotari said:

I've said it ready but no one seems to have noticed...Kris. Kris is just a random average dude. Being humble about that fact is the most defining trait of the character.

Does Kris count as a main lord?

[lenticular]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

That's not true at all; he already had Reyson's respect and friendship by the time that either of them found out about Elena's history with Lilia. He got Reyson's respect and friendship because of his decision to protect Leanne after finding her in the Serenes Forest.

Not going to go into the rest of this, because we're getting pretty off-topic. Given that we mostly seem to agree on the facts of what happened but disagree on the interpretations, we're probably better off just agreeing to disagree. For this one point, though, I want to just go into a little bit more detail. I think that there is a definite shift in Reyson's attitudes after finding Lilia's cell. This is typified by his death quotes (or, more accurately, his withdrawl quotes, since he's a plot-relevant unit who never truly dies).

• Prior to Ch.22: "Urgh... I am sorry. This wound prevents me from repaying my debt."
• After Ch.22: "I am no longer fighting for my family alone. I wish to help you and your sister."

(Both lines are longer, but those are the illustrative parts.)

That is, he changes from fighting alongside Ike out of an obligation, to doing so out of a sense of kinship.

I also wouldn't swear to this, but I believe that Ike and Reyson's support together doesn't become available until after Chapter 22. This may just be a coincidence... but it also might not be.

[vanguard333]

43 minutes ago, lenticular said:

Not going to go into the rest of this, because we're getting pretty off-topic. Given that we mostly seem to agree on the facts of what happened but disagree on the interpretations, we're probably better off just agreeing to disagree. For this one point, though, I want to just go into a little bit more detail. I think that there is a definite shift in Reyson's attitudes after finding Lilia's cell. This is typified by his death quotes (or, more accurately, his withdrawl quotes, since he's a plot-relevant unit who never truly dies).

• Prior to Ch.22: "Urgh... I am sorry. This wound prevents me from repaying my debt."
• After Ch.22: "I am no longer fighting for my family alone. I wish to help you and your sister."

(Both lines are longer, but those are the illustrative parts.)

That is, he changes from fighting alongside Ike out of an obligation, to doing so out of a sense of kinship.

I also wouldn't swear to this, but I believe that Ike and Reyson's support together doesn't become available until after Chapter 22. This may just be a coincidence... but it also might not be.

I wasn't saying that they didn't become closer after finding that out; I was just saying that he already had a friendly attitude toward Ike before then.

Yeah; we'll probably have to agree to disagree.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 1/11/2022 at 9:58 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

I would like to see a lord due that's a pair of siblings with inverted gender roles. 

The younger sister is a buff, foul mouthed, wacky and alcoholic axe user with a hidden heart of gold, while the older brother is a dainty, sensitive priest boy. Kinda like if Dagr and Forrest were co stars of a story. 

FEMBOY LORD

FEMBOY LORD

...Ahem. I'd be into something like this. I remember theorycrafting a game like Gaiden/Echoes mechanically, with two Lords - a Sister with Swords and Black Magic, and a Brother with Swords and White Magic. At some point in the game, each one consults the Fire Emblem (an ancient tome) to promote... but in a twist, the brash and bellicose Sister gets a legendary support spell, while the sensitive and soft Brother learns an overwhelming attack spell. Each one needs to step outside their comfort zone, and take a cue from their sibling, to become a true hero.

That said, some of my other "theorycrafts" involve full gender-role-reversal worlds, since that's a genre of interest to me.

[DoomRPG]

9 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

That said, some of my other "theorycrafts" involve full gender-role-reversal worlds, since that's a genre of interest to me.

If its not too much to ask. I'd personally like to hear more about these theory-crafted settings. My gut instinct tells me they'll be jank in a very glorious manner. Much like my own ideas can sometimes be.

(Well. I think I lean hard on Jank, less on glorious. But that's a matter of opinion.)

(I mean I guess in general I'm speaking opinion and not facts but... Oh nevermind.)

 

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Does Kris count as a main lord?

As much as Robin is.