Stories You'd love to see for Main Lords in Future FE

[joevar]

6 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

1. Interesting question, though I fail to see how it's relevant given that Ike is not a former noble; he was born a peasant and raised as a peasant. To answer your question though, I'd say it all depends.

2. Are you suggesting that Ike would have to be racist to be average? He isn't racist because that's part of his personality and how he thinks; not because of his upbringing. All his upbringing did was make it that he didn't know much about the laguz by the time he met one... which would be true for most Crimean commoners, given what we see.

3. Radiant Dawn is a sequel; of course he's famous in Radiant Dawn; he pretty much spearheaded Crimea's victory in the Mad King's War. Suppose an FE game was made where the main FE lord was a simple soldier, and then they're famous in the sequel thanks to their actions in the previous game; does that disqualify them from having been an "average guy"?

disclaimer: i've tried to search what make average guy an average guy before the previous reply, but no reliable source found (yet). so our interpretation of "average guy" might as well be vastly different. so agreeing to disagree like lenticular the best option here.

then onto the question

1. its analogy. not saying ike is former noble at all. But to explain that nobility/status as parameter for average guy kinda weak compared to reasons that Ike is not average guy like other has explain. because (you just said it) it all depends. so "not noble = average guy" is not a definite criteria.

2. yes... but before you getting mad and think im racist, hold up. the setting is such that human has prejudice against laguz. so its considered normal if you do so. whether our "modern" mindset dictate it as wrong, is irrelevant. would average people doing something abnormal? they would stand out, and to uphold that non normal require qualities above average guy.

again, analogy

Spoiler

if a mercenary taking jobs not based on what the risk-reward (mostly money) the job will give, but instead how righteous/honorable the job is, would you say that mercenary "just like any other mercenary"? ofc not, that mercenary will raise an eyebrow of other mercenary. because they are mercenary, not knights or public servants.
(no, this not ike just because its mercenary example).

if you dont think thats the case about mercenary, im basing it from mercenary definition from oxford language. complaint to them if its wrong.

even more so imo if no one teach him to not be racist. then he has broader mindset than average guy to understand it before anyone teach it. any philosopher or genius inventor are like that and many of them become like that not because being taught. would you call any of them average?

3. because it makes Ike even more of chosen one than he already was in PoR. sure, not as much Micaiah. 

Also, i might be remembering it wrong, but isnt Ike the only one that can finish the final boss? is it because he happen to wield ragnell, or because Ike is.. Ike. some FE dont even have that restriction iirc, or when it does it has protag like Alm and his obviously chosen one moment. and famous dont play a big part in that. plenty of (supposedly) famous character in FE cant do what their MC's did

------------------------------------------------------------------------

to make it back into topic: a main lord story thats actually not his story. because the "character" that become famous throughout the story is actually already dead. and the one that does all the stuff is just an impostor. basically the actual main character is just one big  Con-man. But he did it out of kindness, not malice or want to trick people.

(for example because the one MC disguised as was a commander , so mc can took command of their forces without too much retaliation)

Edited January 13, 2022 by joevar

[AnonymousSpeed]

6 hours ago, joevar said:

if a mercenary taking jobs not based on what the risk-reward (mostly money) the job will give, but instead how righteous/honorable the job is, would you say that mercenary "just like any other mercenary"? ofc not, that mercenary will raise an eyebrow of other mercenary. because they are mercenary, not knights or public servants.

>implying public servants act with righteous honor as their primary concern

9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

FEMBOY LORD

FEMBOY LORD

Political extremist Fire Emblem.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

7 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

>implying public servants act with righteous honor as their primary concern

Political extremist Fire Emblem.

Politics? In MY anime chess dating simulator? It's more common than you think!

Thinking back on it, though, this series kicked off with a prince who wore a tiara, and eschewed pants for a skirt. In that light, a "Femboy Lord" would be nothing new.

6 hours ago, joevar said:

Also, i might be remembering it wrong, but isnt Ike the only one that can finish the final boss? is it because he happen to wield ragnell, or because Ike is.. Ike. some FE dont even have that restriction iirc, or when it does it has protag like Alm and his obviously chosen one moment. and famous dont play a big part in that. plenty of (supposedly) famous character in FE cant do what their MC's did

Yeah, Ike needs to land the finishing blow on Ashera. One potential rationale is it's because he wields Ragnell, which was blessed by both Ashera and Yune. But in that case, you'd also expect a wielder of a blessed Alondite to finish Ashera off, and that's not the case. So maybe it is just because Ike is uniquely stronk.

[AnonymousSpeed]

26 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Politics? In MY anime chess dating simulator? It's more common than you think!

It is literally a franchise about fantasy geopolitics.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Politics? In MY anime chess dating simulator? It's more common than you think!

Thinking back on it, though, this series kicked off with a prince who wore a tiara, and eschewed pants for a skirt. In that light, a "Femboy Lord" would be nothing new.

Yeah, Ike needs to land the finishing blow on Ashera. One potential rationale is it's because he wields Ragnell, which was blessed by both Ashera and Yune. But in that case, you'd also expect a wielder of a blessed Alondite to finish Ashera off, and that's not the case. So maybe it is just because Ike is uniquely stronk.

But not even Ike can kill Ashera with Alondite.

[Acacia Sgt]

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Thinking back on it, though, this series kicked off with a prince who wore a tiara, and eschewed pants for a skirt. In that light, a "Femboy Lord" would be nothing new.

Considering the first game was evoking a Greco-Roman aesthetic (to the point he was named after the Roman God of War), then it's not quite what you think there.

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Yeah, Ike needs to land the finishing blow on Ashera. One potential rationale is it's because he wields Ragnell, which was blessed by both Ashera and Yune. But in that case, you'd also expect a wielder of a blessed Alondite to finish Ashera off, and that's not the case. So maybe it is just because Ike is uniquely stronk.

33 minutes ago, Jotari said:

But not even Ike can kill Ashera with Alondite.

It wasn't even Ragnell itself. Whoever Yune had given her power to would've worked when it came to landing the final blow. The game simply forces Ike to be the one, but anyone could've done it. Ragnell may be locked to him by the gameplay, but story-wise there's no restriction over who can use it.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[joevar]

3 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

>implying public servants act with righteous honor as their primary concern

Political extremist Fire Emblem.

one can dream ... 

2 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

It is literally a franchise about fantasy geopolitics.

its hard to make war tasteful  complicatedly interesting without a sprinkle of politic. and we all love complicated story right... or is it?

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

In that light, a "Femboy Lord" would be nothing new

i want to ask "why tho?" if thats not offensively personal.

but somehow i can imagine it become used as recurring in game joke for early chapter where bandit mistake the lord as princess/noble lady, when in fact its a prince/noble guy. poor bandit getting struck down while having confusion which one is true,  lol

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It wasn't even Ragnell itself. Whoever Yune had given her power to would've worked when it came to landing the final blow. The game simply forces Ike to be the one, but anyone could've done it. Ragnell may be locked to him by the gameplay, but story-wise there's no restriction over who can use it.

the disconnect between gameplay and story implication always divide people. hopefully game dev realize this as of now (doubt)

Edited January 13, 2022 by joevar

[Dark Holy Elf]

  

16 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Him being heir to the mercenary company is a fair point, but that's just it: a mercenary company, and not exactly a large one. He's the heir to a small business consisting of ten people who, if not for the war, would be barely making a living fighting bandits in the Crimean countryside. That's the medieval fantasy equivalent of being the heir to a tiny indie game studio.

Except... one generally isn't the "heir" to a game studio, indie or otherwise, and if it is it's because you've had years of experience in a high-level position in the company, not because your parent was the previous head. Getting command of something because your dad commanded it before you is a noble trope, and I always thought it kinda undermined the idea of Ike being a commoner lord. I agree with those saying that Ike also has some serious chosen-one vibes due to being the only one who can wield Ragnell (even if the reason isn't explained that I can recall) and thus the only beorc who can fight Ashnard, and also being the only one who can finish Ashera.

Granted, you kinda want your main character to be in charge of something, and nepotism/inheritance is one way to get him or her there, and the most credible if the character is young. It's interesting to think about a story with an Ike-like character who is older and reasonably would be in line to lead a company by merit (protagonist Titania?) but FE seems very unwilling to have an older protagonist. Sigurd comes closest, and he still scans as early 20's to me (dunno if he has an official age). And so to circle around to the original thread question, I'm hoping the move towards multiple protagonists makes it so we can actually have older lord characters.

[vanguard333]

5 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

  Except... one generally isn't the "heir" to a game studio, indie or otherwise, and if it is it's because you've had years of experience in a high-level position in the company, not because your parent was the previous head. Getting command of something because your dad commanded it before you is a noble trope, and I always thought it kinda undermined the idea of Ike being a commoner lord. I agree with those saying that Ike also has some serious chosen-one vibes due to being the only one who can wield Ragnell (even if the reason isn't explained that I can recall) and thus the only beorc who can fight Ashnard, and also being the only one who can finish Ashera.

Okay; I'm aware of that. I was just trying to say that he's the heir to a tiny band of commoners; not exactly heir to a throne or an important title. I never saw it as undermining the idea of Ike being a commoner lord, because he's still a commoner and everyone treats him like one. Shinon and Gatrie even quit the company when they hear that Ike is the new leader; how often do you see someone quit in an FE game upon seeing that the main lord has been named the new king?

Honestly, I think the main reason for the nepotistic aspect of Ike inheriting the mercenary company was to have Ike be unprepared and in over his head; making his arc parallel strongly with Elincia's alongside other story & gameplay benefits (Shinon & Gatrie leaving being an example of a gameplay benefit in this case).

The reason that only Ike can have ragnell in Path of Radiance is that he needs it in order to fight the Black Knight; he isn't "the only one who can wield Ragnell" outside of gameplay. He even gives it back to the Begnion Empire after the war's over; he does not consider it to be his sword. In Radiant Dawn, Sanaki gives it to Ike as an act of symbolism; the hero of the Mad King's War armed with one of the first Begnion Empress' swords, and Ike is extremely reluctant to accept the sword.

[Acacia Sgt]

5 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Okay; I'm aware of that. I was just trying to say that he's the heir to a tiny band of commoners; not exactly heir to a throne or an important title. I never saw it as undermining the idea of Ike being a commoner lord, because he's still a commoner and everyone treats him like one. Shinon and Gatrie even quit the company when they hear that Ike is the new leader; how often do you see someone quit in an FE game upon seeing that the main lord has been named the new king?

Except that still means he's still a step above his "fellow" commoners due to his birthright. Soren even says it out loud:

"We all knew that Ike was going to inherit command of the company, didn’t we?"

---

Anyway, on-topic, I must say I'm also in the wagon of wanting to see an older Lord, perhaps already married with children, preferably old enough.

Like, imagine if it had been Cornelius and not Marth, whom the first game was about. That would've been cool.

[Interdimensional Observer]

21 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Sigurd comes closest, and he still scans as early 20's to me (dunno if he has an official age). 

Looking over the old SF character ages page, the only Gen 1 character with an official age is Oifey- 14. A manga placed Sigurd at 22, but not official. Neither would be Kaga's purported plans in his ideal version of Genealogy to make Silvia 14.

25 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

And so to circle around to the original thread question, I'm hoping the move towards multiple protagonists makes it so we can actually have older lord characters.

That is just the nature of that nebulous thing we call "anime", that Japanese form of storytelling and presentation that spans literature, television, and video games. Though it varies from gritty and dark to bright and cheery, the central protagonists have a serious age ceiling.

In part, this might be due to the common assertion that the late teenage years are the last chance to enjoy life and explore one's potentials in Japan. After graduation from high school, one becomes another overworked cog in the uncaring machine that is the Japanese economy.

Moving back towards video games, I'll cite SRW here. Not the perfect comparison, but its original protagonists are numerous and belong to an SRPG franchise. While most are at or around that most magical age we call 17, there are a few exceptions. Namely, the duo of Kyosuke & Excellen, who remain highly popular in the fanbase, but are officially 22 and 23 respectively. The early twenties being permissible as a "mature but not old" age zone viable for central protagonists. Another major example is Sanger, who hits the anime glass ceiling of age 29 (which he doesn't act like, at all, he should be in his 40s or even 50s IMO), but nonetheless is revered. -Although Sanger also began as a kind of villain, and only later took on a stint in the main protagonist role thanks to his ecstatic reception. Shu, age 22 IIRC, also has the "began as a bad guy" caveat to him, yet is another cherished classic character.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

  

Except... one generally isn't the "heir" to a game studio, indie or otherwise, and if it is it's because you've had years of experience in a high-level position in the company, not because your parent was the previous head. Getting command of something because your dad commanded it before you is a noble trope, and I always thought it kinda undermined the idea of Ike being a commoner lord. I agree with those saying that Ike also has some serious chosen-one vibes due to being the only one who can wield Ragnell (even if the reason isn't explained that I can recall) and thus the only beorc who can fight Ashnard, and also being the only one who can finish Ashera.

Granted, you kinda want your main character to be in charge of something, and nepotism/inheritance is one way to get him or her there, and the most credible if the character is young. It's interesting to think about a story with an Ike-like character who is older and reasonably would be in line to lead a company by merit (protagonist Titania?) but FE seems very unwilling to have an older protagonist. Sigurd comes closest, and he still scans as early 20's to me (dunno if he has an official age). And so to circle around to the original thread question, I'm hoping the move towards multiple protagonists makes it so we can actually have older lord characters.

Mandatory Micaiah is probably older than Sigurd comment.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Jotari

[Dark Holy Elf]

4 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Okay; I'm aware of that. I was just trying to say that he's the heir to a tiny band of commoners; not exactly heir to a throne or an important title. I never saw it as undermining the idea of Ike being a commoner lord, because he's still a commoner and everyone treats him like one. Shinon and Gatrie even quit the company when they hear that Ike is the new leader; how often do you see someone quit in an FE game upon seeing that the main lord has been named the new king?

Honestly, I think the main reason for the nepotistic aspect of Ike inheriting the mercenary company was to have Ike be unprepared and in over his head; making his arc parallel strongly with Elincia's alongside other story & gameplay benefits (Shinon & Gatrie leaving being an example of a gameplay benefit in this case).

The reason that only Ike can have ragnell in Path of Radiance is that he needs it in order to fight the Black Knight; he isn't "the only one who can wield Ragnell" outside of gameplay. He even gives it back to the Begnion Empire after the war's over; he does not consider it to be his sword. In Radiant Dawn, Sanaki gives it to Ike as an act of symbolism; the hero of the Mad King's War armed with one of the first Begnion Empress' swords, and Ike is extremely reluctant to accept the sword.

For your first question: I know it's not quite the same, but the wicked uncle who resents the rightful king/lord is an old trope in fiction, and even Fire Emblem dips its toe in it a few times (like with Lewyn's uncles in FE4). Shinon in particular certainly has more than a whiff of that. All the characters we are meant to find sympathetic agree that Ike deserves to inherit the company. Again, inheriting leadership is a staple of being nobility; it's arguably the definition of nobility. Inheriting a small company is what I'd expect for minor nobility, but still nobility.

I agree with your second paragraph. The narrative is served by Ike being both young and in command, and the way the writers chose is probably the easiest way to get him there. If it's not clear I don't actually dislike Ike or PoR's story!

As for Ike needing Ragnell for the Black Knight fight in PoR, well, the game ensured that he would have it by dropping it into its inventory at the start of the fight! But even after the duel is done, and you still can't hand Ragnell to anyone else. That's a conscious design choice the game designers made. The game will also not let anyone else defeat Ashera. You can make the argument that outside of gameplay, Stefan (or even Elincia! If only...) could have fought Ashnard, or Caineghis (etc.) could have defeated Ashera, but the game won't let them; only Ike. That's making Ike out to be mighty special in both cases.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Mandatory Micaiah is probably older than Sigurd comment.

Ha, good point, and bad on me for forgetting.

[vanguard333]

27 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

For your first question: I know it's not quite the same, but the wicked uncle who resents the rightful king/lord is an old trope in fiction, and even Fire Emblem dips its toe in it a few times (like with Lewyn's uncles in FE4). Shinon in particular certainly has more than a whiff of that. All the characters we are meant to find sympathetic agree that Ike deserves to inherit the company. Again, inheriting leadership is a staple of being nobility; it's arguably the definition of nobility. Inheriting a small company is what I'd expect for minor nobility, but still nobility.

I agree with your second paragraph. The narrative is served by Ike being both young and in command, and the way the writers chose is probably the easiest way to get him there. If it's not clear I don't actually dislike Ike or PoR's story!

As for Ike needing Ragnell for the Black Knight fight in PoR, well, the game ensured that he would have it by dropping it into its inventory at the start of the fight! But even after the duel is done, and you still can't hand Ragnell to anyone else. That's a conscious design choice the game designers made. The game will also not let anyone else defeat Ashera. You can make the argument that outside of gameplay, Stefan (or even Elincia! If only...) could have fought Ashnard, or Caineghis (etc.) could have defeated Ashera, but the game won't let them; only Ike. That's making Ike out to be mighty special in both cases.

I see your point. I will just say that I just looked back at some of the dialogue in the early chapters, and I noticed that the game outright says at multiple points that Ike inheriting the mercenary is Greil's decision, and given Ike's surprise when he learns this in chapter 4, it was likely a relatively recent decision. This is supported by the the first three chapters being about Ike learning the ropes as a rookie, and then when they learn of the war in chapter 4, Greil abruptly puts Ike in charge of the team meant to scout around the Crimean capital, as if Greil is trying to accelerate things.

Personally, if I were adapting Path of Radiance, I would probably include a small line from Titania about her not wanting command, but that would be all I'd change in this particular area.

 

Thanks.

 

You have a point for Path of Radiance. In regards to defeating Ashera though, I generally give Radiant Dawn a pass when it comes to Ike simply because of its nature as a direct sequel; by then, Ike has become legendary thanks to his actions in Path of Radiance.

[henrymidfields]

On 1/11/2022 at 8:33 AM, AnonymousSpeed said:

Done.

Proposal 1: See my original post from AS's link.

Proposal 2 - Since everyone has been mentionning Tellius:

On 9/22/2021 at 9:44 PM, henrymidfields said:

I would actually prefer Ike having to go through another set of character development. Make it more like Persona 5 or Three Houses where he clearly now has to deal with corrupt senators, and ended up having to do a lot stuff that he opposed in primciple. Show him, Elincia, and Sanaki interacting with the Senators, and them grumbling behind their backs. And show that Ike got really tired of all of the senators' bullshit and what not, he got massively jaded, both with his own actions three years ago, and the fact that he could not stop the atrocities and oppressions that people he thought were on the same side committed. If this was already shown in some capacity, then make it more obvious that Ike's struggling with that, and that he ended up rejecting the glory out of guilt and frustration.

On 9/22/2021 at 2:29 AM, henrymidfields said:

If nothing else, give Ike another character development and discovery arc. Show us how he has to deal with the more corrupt governors and officials from Begnion, and how it's making him jaded with the nobility. I'm not sure if that is shown in the games, but even if it is, show more of how Begnion strongarms the Greil Merc to do their bidding, and how it negatively affects Ike. Even show cases where he is outright opposed by the Daein populance for his association with Begnion, how he struggles with politics, and how it taking an emotional toll on him. Show to us, that at the end of the day, his proficiency with the sword just doesn't translate to other stuff required in getting through the next war. And make it clear that while he is celebrated as a Legendary Hero, he ended up losing a lot of himself, and this is why he decided to leave Tellius at the end of the story. Finish off what Tellius had set out to do and make Ike into an actual character and not some superhero that might as well be in a less story-developed FE game.

Edited January 14, 2022 by henrymidfields

[DoomRPG]

So I don't really have any new comments on the discussion. But time and some other threads I started has given me fuel for new plot line ideas.

1. FE Couple plot line
Alm and Celica are sort of the poster example for this. But their story is mostly "Alm saves the day while Celica offers some support." Which is fine-ish for the OG Gaiden. But Echoes's changes made it a very one-sided ordeal. Alm not only did all the work, he also did most of the supporting. Which made the originally equal-ish relationship, incredibly onesided. (Gaiden had limits so I say equal-ish.)

So the idea I had is this.

You have the male Lord, who is expected, a prince of Nation X. Which is a mix of Spain/France. (Knights and high culture are all the rage like in medieval France. But I think the aesthetics would be closer to Spain.)

Then the Female lord who is princess of Nation Y. Which is a beast nation and she in particular is a full fledged Jaguar. (Which I believe is the only big cat that was missed in Tellius. So that's why I chose it.)

They're in an arranged marriage to end the warring of Nation X and Y (no relation to the pokemon games.) who are historically enemies that have been in total war with each other. Repeatedly, and the start of the game is the first time they've been at peace for pretty much any amount of time. With the border of the nations being a hellhole of scorched earth and corpses so suffused with hate their spirits linger on, still waging a war of annihilation against another. (Which incidentally is why peace is suddenly seeming like such a good idea.)

Personality wise. The Male lord is calm and collected, almost stoic, as they are the ones that use magic. (I had ideas for gameplay but not really the point. Big thing was a damaging staff that served as their rapier. Nuking cavaliers/armors at a great distance but with much more limited uses.)

They are altruistic like most lords. But in a departure. Are, actually rather merciless. I imagine the Ch.1 bandit chapter having them go "You chose this life of banditry and pillaging. You are heartless savages and will be treated as such." Which would be their primary character flaw. Writing off their enemies as irredeemable and not even trying to sympathize. (Which means. Unlike the female lord. They can't recruit enemies until character development.)

The female lord will be similar and different. Being a full fledged hot blooded tomboy (which is funny cuz cat. Because toms are male cats but its a she and... You get the joke.) However while sympathetic enough to recruit enemies (ala like most lords.) Shes. Also something of a pragmatist. Until character development kicks in. They'll only help others if it works out for them. And not just for the sake of doing good. Which would be represented in gameplay by an inability to visit villages. (Which of course. The male lord in particular finds abhorrent. While she finds his inability to empathize with enemies as proof he's a heartless butcher who doesn't value life. Obviously both are completely wrong.)

And yeah as hinted at. Both lords, despite being a couple. Hate. Each other.
A lot.

At least at the start. To establish this I think like, post Ch.1 their meet up should be a back and forth where they first bring up actual grievances (Like aforementioned heartlessness from M!lord. While the F!lord was only around to help because she needs to earn herself a good reputation. No real desire to help her future human subjects.) but devolve into full fledged racist mudslinging until the Jeigen intervenes and sets them both straight.

I'd also tie their supports into game progression. You can't get C until ch.3-4 B at like Ch.7. A 10-12. And the lauded S rank at wherever the halfway point is. (or around there.)

As for what the supports actually are. I'd imagine a progression among the lines of

C has them bicker for a bit about how the other could do better. But eventually relent and reluctantly agree the other is at least incredibly competent. Establishing that while they dislike each other (greatly) they can respect each other.

B support would be the shortest of them. Being a short back and forth where the two semi-awkwardly complement each other. Completely genuine. Offer actual constructive criticism for the other, and agree to do some training together. End support. (Obviously from wherever you unlock this support. Would be the chapter where the two are much less hostile

A is a proper apology for prior behavior. As well as some general character bits (I'd imagine around now is the time character development would allow things like the M!lord recruiting through conversation. While F!Lord can visit villages.

And S can be a cute/wholesome scene where the two reminisce about their disastrous wedding. (perhaps with flashbacks. Depends on setting/situation.) before the two reaffirm their marriage vows. And then agree to add a few more to it. Things like fighting for everlasting peace, protecting their now shared lands and all who call it home. Never repeating the mistakes of their ancestorts. Etc.

As for like chapters and plot in the story. Dunno. The only big one I was thinking about a "Level up your lords before plot promotion" Chapter that's designed around the two being all you get in a cramped FOW style escape mission. The M!Lord starts with an empty inventory, so you need to use the transformed F!Lord to get door and chest keys to get M!Lord his tomes and staves. Which in turn provide the magical damage and utility required to reach the escape tile (or plan on how to approach the guards. FOW mission means Torch staff is useful.)

---
Anyhow. A smaller second idea

Main Lord is the heir... To the evil cult wishing to revive the resident evil god/dragon/demon/whatever.
Of course despite being groomed to replace their parent (The resident Gharnef of the group. Maybe make them a Gharnia for variety or something idk.) they end up born with a bleeding heart and go rogue from grief at being directly responsible for terrible actions.

I think like big character moments/plot arcs for this story would be

1. Finding a way to undo/reverse the main character's evil mind control spell on the resident important priestess/princess/whatever. (Basically freeing the four FE3/FE12 bishops. Or FE4's Julia. With the twist that an early mission. Like ch.4-7~ has you perform the spell. With the immediate next chapter being the part where the main lord rebels.) Similarly the main lord being utterly repulsed by his/her/whatever actions is why you can't ever use it in gameplay.

2. While the Main character is rebelling and trying to stop the evil cult. They grew up in it. And recognize other members on sight. They know these people by name and face. Similarly while the other cultists are FE evil. They are uniquely unwilling to actively target the main lord. As such chapters against the evil cult will often be designed around the fact your Main Lord is something of a brick wall. He/she/whatever won't attack enemies. But they won't attack them either. Chokepoints abound. (This would. Of course be partially averted with the Lord's parent. Who has no issues with murdering their child. To represent them being extra evil. The main lord is however still completely unwilling to commit patricide/matricide. To represent them being a kind soul. Acting on and inspired by their emotions.)

Uh. Plot idea 3.

Dark souls crossover. Discus.
(I couldn't think up a third idea. But I Like rule of 3. So I made a joke.)
 

[joevar]

1 hour ago, DoomRPG said:

You have the male Lord, who is expected, a prince of Nation X. Which is a mix of Spain/France. (Knights and high culture are all the rage like in medieval France. But I think the aesthetics would be closer to Spain.)

We already have plenty European-themed Lord. So change the male background into noble from either central asia, east asia, middle east, or even part of africa. Thanks to a certain popular JRPG releasing in 2021, now its a fact that Brown-Exotic-Noble guy is quite popular especially for female audience (with interesting personality ofc, thats no brainer)

might as well utilize that to pull more female gamer

1 hour ago, DoomRPG said:

And S-

-EX.. yes seriously. The whole tying knot between nation using marriage will fall apart the moment one of the pair suddenly gone for any reason. back to throwing spears and claws, then. So getting an heir is a must have goal ASAP. By then they would have living proof of the alliance between the two. Even if one of the parent later will be gone, the alliance and connection will not break apart that quickly

how to translate that into S support for a nintendo subsidiaries game? beats me, i dunno.

1 hour ago, DoomRPG said:

Dark souls crossover. Discus.

about that:

On 1/11/2022 at 10:42 AM, joevar said:

but an original idea for FE series: a dying protag. either because they have a limited lifespan due to circumstances, or by sacrificing themselves in the end or something else.

pretty much sums up what every canon protagonist in Dark souls will end up.

[DoomRPG]

4 minutes ago, joevar said:

We already have plenty European-themed Lord. So change the male background into noble from either central asia, east asia, middle east, or even part of africa. Thanks to a certain popular JRPG releasing in 2021, now its a fact that Brown-Exotic-Noble guy is quite popular especially for female audience (with interesting personality ofc, thats no brainer)

 

-EX.. yes seriously. The whole tying knot between nation using marriage will fall apart the moment one of the pair suddenly gone for any reason. back to throwing spears and claws, then. So getting an heir is a must have goal ASAP. By then they would have living proof of the alliance between the two. Even if one of the parent later will be gone, the alliance and connection will not break apart that quickly

how to translate that into S support for a nintendo subsidiaries game? beats me, i dunno.

 

I can't figure out how to multi quote same person. I really need to do that sometime.

But anyway to reply to the first bit. I live underground (aka a LOT of rocks.) So I'm curious what the exact game your mentioning is because I have no clue what your referring to.

As for a different origin. I honestly agree but sadly IS seems to have an obsession for exclusively Europe FE. And exclusively medieval FE. When even the first game was closer to Antiquity (Greco-Roman) In Aesthetic. Hoshido is like. The only exception and it has its own faults.

Which sucks. Like. At least try to be a bit more creative. Spain, being something of a melting pot between islamic/christian influences has a noticeably different aesthetic than most FE lords have. Less so than from regions you suggested, but its also still in Europe. And IS is apparently staffed entirely by Medieval Europe-philes.
Sigh

Hmm. I need to think up what a Confuscian-esque lord could look like. Or maybe go for central/Southern american one. Mayan lord defying fate to save the world sounds dope.

Anyway as for the other comment. I actually originally planned to write some stuff along the line in my post with it. But decided it was superflous and rambly (same with my gameplay comments actually.) and trimmed a bit.

The basic idea is that once you got the S support. You could still actually build up support points between the two. And unlock additional conversations that boost their support bonus farther. And would generally have a more humorous yet wholesome feel to them. (Ideas I had was like. A support where both get hammered by frothy mugs of what is going to be called 'berry juice') You could easily sneak in some adult humor into that scenario.

Also epilogue would obviously mention how fruitful the marriage was. Hint hint wink wink.


Oh and before I forget about joke dark Souls crossover because I guess your taking it semi-seriously at the very least?

I was guessing it be like. The ancient tale of heroes. Gwyn as the main lord (or perhaps his firstborn for the tragic angle.) defeating the dragons and what not.

[lenticular]

11 hours ago, joevar said:

i want to ask "why tho?" if thats not offensively personal.

What do you mean, "why"? We need a reason to want femboys and gender bending in our fiction now? Damn, I'm screwed.

11 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Granted, you kinda want your main character to be in charge of something, and nepotism/inheritance is one way to get him or her there, and the most credible if the character is young. It's interesting to think about a story with an Ike-like character who is older and reasonably would be in line to lead a company by merit (protagonist Titania?) but FE seems very unwilling to have an older protagonist. Sigurd comes closest, and he still scans as early 20's to me (dunno if he has an official age). And so to circle around to the original thread question, I'm hoping the move towards multiple protagonists makes it so we can actually have older lord characters.

Well, in addition to Micaiah, there's also Seteth and Tibarn who are both lord-adjacent if you squint hard enough. Generally speaking, though, I do agree with this take. I'd like to see more older characters in general as part of just seeing more diverse characters in general. In a way, Fire Emblem is the perfect series for that, since its large casts give it the chance to include all types of people. From what I am given to understand of Japanese culture, that might be a big ask, though.

2 hours ago, joevar said:

We already have plenty European-themed Lord. So change the male background into noble from either central asia, east asia, middle east, or even part of africa. Thanks to a certain popular JRPG releasing in 2021, now its a fact that Brown-Exotic-Noble guy is quite popular especially for female audience (with interesting personality ofc, thats no brainer)

I also have absolutely no clue what game you're talking about here.

2 hours ago, DoomRPG said:

As for a different origin. I honestly agree but sadly IS seems to have an obsession for exclusively Europe FE. And exclusively medieval FE. When even the first game was closer to Antiquity (Greco-Roman) In Aesthetic. Hoshido is like. The only exception and it has its own faults.

There's Sacae as well, which is more inspired by the Eurasian Steppe. But I definitely agree. There's nothing inherently wrong with a medieval European aesthetic, but I do long for a bit more variety. If they're afraid to break things up too much, then one thing that I would be interested in would be to have a game set around the transition from the late medieval to the early modern period, with the main lord being somewhat of a traditionalist trying to cling to the old ways as the world around them changed. Except that as I write that, I've just realised that Three Houses covers some of that ground already, so maybe not.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, DoomRPG said:

Then the Female lord who is princess of Nation Y. Which is a beast nation and she in particular is a full fledged Jaguar. (Which I believe is the only big cat that was missed in Tellius. So that's why I chose it.)

Oh hardly. Tellius only gave us lions tigers and cats. In addition to jaguar there are still leopards, pumas, ocelots and cheetahs.

[DoomRPG]

12 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Oh hardly. Tellius only gave us lions tigers and cats. In addition to jaguar there are still leopards, pumas, ocelots and cheetahs.

Pumas are a word for cougars right? I'm pretty sure cougars aren't considered a big cat. They're closer to like Lynxes. Same for Ocelots I'm like 99% sure.

I was wrong about Cheetahs/Leopards though. Both of em should be considered big cats. Jaguer is objectively cooler tho so it gets priority.

(the last bit. In italics. Is 100% sarcastic and not true. I am not advocating an opinion as objective fact.)

[lenticular]

12 minutes ago, DoomRPG said:

Pumas are a word for cougars right? I'm pretty sure cougars aren't considered a big cat. They're closer to like Lynxes. Same for Ocelots I'm like 99% sure.

I was wrong about Cheetahs/Leopards though. Both of em should be considered big cats. Jaguer is objectively cooler tho so it gets priority.

(the last bit. In italics. Is 100% sarcastic and not true. I am not advocating an opinion as objective fact.)

It depends on how you define "big cat". Some people use it exclusively to refer to members of the genus Panthera, in which case you're exclusively looking at lions, tigers, jaguars, leopards and snow leopards (and various hybrids thereof); other people use it just to refer to any cat that is big, which would include both cheetahs and pumas/cougars. So, when it comes to those last two, it mostly makes sense to include both of them or include neither of them, but not to include only one of them.

(And obviously, snow leopards are the objectively coolest big cat. An Arctic- or Siberian-themed Fire Emblem is something that I've wanted for a while, and they'd fit right in there, even though that isn't their native range on Earth.)

[DoomRPG]

16 minutes ago, lenticular said:

It depends on how you define "big cat". Some people use it exclusively to refer to members of the genus Panthera, in which case you're exclusively looking at lions, tigers, jaguars, leopards and snow leopards (and various hybrids thereof); other people use it just to refer to any cat that is big, which would include both cheetahs and pumas/cougars. So, when it comes to those last two, it mostly makes sense to include both of them or include neither of them, but not to include only one of them.

(And obviously, snow leopards are the objectively coolest big cat. An Arctic- or Siberian-themed Fire Emblem is something that I've wanted for a while, and they'd fit right in there, even though that isn't their native range on Earth.)

Ah. Learn something new everyday that's for sure.

As for arctic/Siberia FE. Seems interesting with perhaps the evil god/demon whatever being the cause of the cold and needing to be slain before the Sun can rise.

A foe sort of similar to Father Llymic of D&D fame. (For those who don't know who that is. Basically big scary alien that wants to put out the sun. Create eternal darkness so he can take over the world because sunlight/warmth is the only thing he's weak too.)

It would be hard to justify a very large cast however. Which might be fine for others but I personally prefer a decent sized cast.

Edit 1: Perhaps the Tuunbaq can show up too. No idea if anyone else knows what that is though.
 

Edited January 14, 2022 by DoomRPG

[joevar]

5 hours ago, DoomRPG said:

But anyway to reply to the first bit. I live underground (aka a LOT of rocks.) So I'm curious what the exact game your mentioning is because I have no clue what your referring to.

block/highlight the sentence you want to quote, and the "quote selection" option will appear beside the sentence.

5 hours ago, DoomRPG said:

But anyway to reply to the first bit. I live underground (aka a LOT of rocks.) So I'm curious what the exact game your mentioning is because I have no clue what your referring to.

2 hours ago, lenticular said:

I also have absolutely no clue what game you're talking about here.

Tales of Arise. Bandai Namco has release newest popularity poll last month. and the winner is character named Dohalim. and they said that majority of voters is actually female. the overseas fans including me more or less agree with that too afaik.

it might be recency bias factor, but he win number 1 spot in overall ranking. and also number 2 in other category. so it should hold some credibility

5 hours ago, DoomRPG said:

Also epilogue would obviously mention how fruitful the marriage was. Hint hint wink wink.

no no no. dont just hint at wink-wink at epilogue. if its just that, they've been doing that since forever. but its always either hinted, or skipped entirely. also i didnt mean another awakening-fates magically appear child either. except chrom maybe, where his newborn infant actually appear in middle of story.

make it R-rated . make it a fact they do it within the span of the campaign. no need for time skip to handle the job

5 hours ago, DoomRPG said:

The ancient tale of heroes. Gwyn as the main lord (or perhaps his firstborn for the tragic angle.) defeating the dragons and what not.

if you put it that way, nothing unique about that versus FE recurring theme. or rather thats what the opening lore of many FE, that FE developer never seem want to explore deeper.

2 hours ago, lenticular said:

What do you mean, "why"? We need a reason to want femboys and gender bending in our fiction now? Damn, I'm screwed.

got it. from that reaction alone i got my answer

Edited January 14, 2022 by joevar

[Sentinel07]

I kind of had this one idea swimming in my head for a while.

A Lord that is kind of along the lines of an older knight that left for whatever reason, like Olberic from Octopath Traveler. Eventually, they're brought back into the politics of the world and, along the way, adopt a young protégé that can serve as the Avatar (since they're likely never getting away from that concept now).

A Lord that's older could bring a whole new perspective compared to the young naive lords we're used to, and I'd be down for a Lord/Avatar relationship that is more platonic like father/child rather than the blatant romance we see in Awakening, Fates, and Three Houses. It would also work in the sense that I feel the Avatar should be in something closer to a side role like Kris rather than a main lead like Corrin or Byleth.

One way or another, I just hope the popularity of the Three Houses Lords gives IS the confidence to continue experimenting with new Lords, because all 3 of them brought something new and I'm grateful for it.