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Stories You'd love to see for Main Lords in Future FE


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4 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

That`s an interesting idea. FE hasn`t done the star crossed lovers trope much from what I can remember. 

Ironically, the very first game did it! Artemis, a princess of Archanea, was in love with the hero Anri, but was forced to marry a different noble instead. In despair, she placed a curse on the Fire Emblem, affecting future generations of Archanean royalty. A century later, "Artemis' Curse" saw itself repeated in Nyna, who found herself trapped in a loveless marriage with Hardin of Aurelis.

...Not sure how much of this was in the original Archanea games, and how much was invented fof the remakes, though.

15 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

This isn`t really about the Lord, but I would love to see the Lord have a more personal relationship with the main antagonist. Something akin to the rivalry between Ike and the Black Knight, or even the antagonist liking the hero like how Arvis still loves Azel even when on the opposite side. 

They seemed to try to do this in Fates, where "Corrin has to fight their family", with... let's say "mixed results". Also in Sacred Stones, Eirika and Ephraim have a personal relationship with Lyon. They find themselves in an impossible situation, having to accept the loss of their childhood friend and to face his body in battle.

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10 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

...Not sure how much of this was in the original Archanea games, and how much was invented fof the remakes, though.

Well, as per the localized script of the original version which actually doesn't seem to take into account the remakes, yes, Artemis' Curse is mentioned just before the fight with Camus. I'd think the alternate dialogue if Caeda dies was also there in the orignial.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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5 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

That`s an interesting idea. FE hasn`t done the star crossed lovers trope much from what I can remember. 

Thanks.

I think FE has used it before, but not for the protagonists, unless you count Sigurd & Dierde. I suppose there's also Edelgard's crush on Byleth in every route, but since that's guaranteed to be unrequited in every route except the one where you side with her, it doesn't really count as an example either.

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On 1/17/2022 at 4:55 AM, DoomRPG said:

Strong fist which is the 3H Gauntlets Which loses to.
Gentle fist which is basically 1-1 ranged Fate knives. Debuffs, and quite severe ones too! No brave effects. Loses to
Wrestling. Which has a ton of repositioning effects. (I liked things like rushing blow. But they were often impractical.) so to buff it a bit. Wrestling also has combat arts that increase mobility. Y'know. Flying dragon kick someone off their horse 3 tiles past your maximum movement range. Loses to strong fist. (Also no brave effect. That's Strong Fist's thing)

maybe strong, nimble, and uh... reactive? since im assuming this is like basing on martial arts, maybe the third is like something akin to aikido or judo (maybe?), where you use part of opponent strength to strike back at them. gentle fist is more like the third one after all if i imagine it from existing martial arts that can be called that. so thats why i prefer the second type to become nimble.

 

17 hours ago, lenticular said:

is a Fire Emblem game that doesn't really have a Lord character. By which I mean, it doesn't have anyone who is force-deployed and whose death results in game over.

isnt that advance wars by IS? or anything from total war series games. rather, its almost any SRPG (with total head count more than 10) except fire emblem. so its like identity of FE.

which is why im interested if IS make other game alongside FE too. so they can break free from shackles of permadeath, and some other staple of FE in that other game

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1 minute ago, joevar said:

maybe strong, nimble, and uh... reactive? since im assuming this is like basing on martial arts, maybe the third is like something akin to aikido or judo (maybe?), where you use part of opponent strength to strike back at them. gentle fist is more like the third one after all if i imagine it from existing martial arts that can be called that. so thats why i prefer the second type to become nimble.

 

Sure that works too. I'm not an expert in anything I just chose what seemed like good names.

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6 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Ironically, the very first game did it! Artemis, a princess of Archanea, was in love with the hero Anri, but was forced to marry a different noble instead. In despair, she placed a curse on the Fire Emblem, affecting future generations of Archanean royalty. A century later, "Artemis' Curse" saw itself repeated in Nyna, who found herself trapped in a loveless marriage with Hardin of Aurelis.

...Not sure how much of this was in the original Archanea games, and how much was invented fof the remakes, though.

I see, I wasn`t aware that Nyna`s loveless marriage was mandated by a curse.

5 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Thanks.

I think FE has used it before, but not for the protagonists, unless you count Sigurd & Dierde. I suppose there's also Edelgard's crush on Byleth in every route, but since that's guaranteed to be unrequited in every route except the one where you side with her, it doesn't really count as an example either.

I would also discount the Edelgard example since the feelings are one-sided. For it to be a true star crossed lovers pair, the feelings need to be mutual. Prince Kurth and Cigyun are one such example, they can`t be together cause she is married to Duke Victor of Velthemor.

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8 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Ironically, the very first game did it! Artemis, a princess of Archanea, was in love with the hero Anri, but was forced to marry a different noble instead. In despair, she placed a curse on the Fire Emblem, affecting future generations of Archanean royalty. A century later, "Artemis' Curse" saw itself repeated in Nyna, who found herself trapped in a loveless marriage with Hardin of Aurelis.

...Not sure how much of this was in the original Archanea games, and how much was invented fof the remakes, though.

It's there from the very start...not explained sufficiently at all, but it's there. At least as far as I remember. The Nyna and Camus stuff is there and Nyna mentions Artemis's curse but doesn't actually explain who Artemis is. It was probably detailed in Kaga's notes or something from the start, but you know NES games and their list-of-ingredients sized character limits.

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how about a protagonist that just "transferred" to that continent? so the whole conflict and war in that continent actually has nothing to do with the protagonist. it doesnt have to be "i come from modern world, so i will bring future tech to make a mess of science progress in this world" trope. it could just be he's from another far continent that people there just doesnt know (yet). they might as well forgotten in the after-war by the masses due to joining already existing force and serve as a kind vice-lord, not the actual supreme leader of the army

it might sound like mark and robin, except theres no amnesia. and this one has its own agenda of coming back to their homeland, maybe with some added pursuer of his/her life that makes the war even more complicated

Edited by joevar
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Not per se the lords themselves but I hope future entrees won't be afraid to spice up the lord's supporting cast a bit. 

Usually the lord is supported by a very tried and tested collection of classes. You always start out with two cavalry, a Jagen, a mage and an archer as the core retainers of the lord. And these classes tend to always be represented by the same sort of characters. The two cavaliers are always rather bland and maybe contrast each other, the mage is always a young boy, the Jagen is mostly an elderly fellow or at least a decade senior compared to the lord.

They should change this up. Rather than a boy the mage could instead be an old man who picked up magic very late in his life. Maybe he's the Jagen who picked up magic because his old age ensured he no longer has the strength to carry arms. Maybe the actual Jagen shouldn't be an old man who mentored the lord all his life but a young and cocky mercenary who doesn't know or like the lord. 

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20 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

So, basically an FE game where the lord character is a non-combatant? That could potentially be interesting. However, getting rid of "game over if this specific character is killed" does mean that there would have to be more conditions for failure in order to compensate.

  They could do, but I don't particularly think that they'd have to. I've never found a game over due to a dead lord to be a particularly satisfying way to lose. For an ironman run, I think that "I lost too many people to attrition and now I don't have enough people left to beat this map" is a much more compelling failure state, with "I lost because the lord died" generally tending to feel very abrupt and almost arbitrary. Maybe that's just me, though. And for a non-ironman run with resets (or time rewinds), it's all largely irrelevant, since it's all but impossible to truly lose a run if you can save and reload as often as you like.

12 hours ago, joevar said:

isnt that advance wars by IS? or anything from total war series games. rather, its almost any SRPG (with total head count more than 10) except fire emblem. so its like identity of FE.

With any long-running series, there's always a tension between "keep on doing the same thing we've always done, because that's the identity of the series" and "start doing things differently to make sure that the franchise doesn't stagnate or get stale". What works best for one person isn't going to work best for someone else. It's going to depend mainly on whether that person more highly values familiarity or novelty and on how central a particular element was to the individual's perception of the series identity. To me, having a lord-style character is something that FE has always done btu isn't something that I consider important to the core identity of the series, so it's something I'd be interested in seeing shaken up. Your mileage may vary, of course.

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50 minutes ago, lenticular said:

  They could do, but I don't particularly think that they'd have to. I've never found a game over due to a dead lord to be a particularly satisfying way to lose. For an ironman run, I think that "I lost too many people to attrition and now I don't have enough people left to beat this map" is a much more compelling failure state, with "I lost because the lord died" generally tending to feel very abrupt and almost arbitrary. Maybe that's just me, though. And for a non-ironman run with resets (or time rewinds), it's all largely irrelevant, since it's all but impossible to truly lose a run if you can save and reload as often as you like.

With any long-running series, there's always a tension between "keep on doing the same thing we've always done, because that's the identity of the series" and "start doing things differently to make sure that the franchise doesn't stagnate or get stale". What works best for one person isn't going to work best for someone else. It's going to depend mainly on whether that person more highly values familiarity or novelty and on how central a particular element was to the individual's perception of the series identity. To me, having a lord-style character is something that FE has always done btu isn't something that I consider important to the core identity of the series, so it's something I'd be interested in seeing shaken up. Your mileage may vary, of course.

but it is how it is with war tho? losing head/commander = lose war. not technically, but practically. unless someone else become the new head and continue. even more so with FE series who like to recruit many people from god knows where they come from. other countries. the moment the lord out of the picture, the army will break at the seams, and practically falls apart. altho in gameplay doesnt sound satisfying, and thats why im sure people above suggest game without lord, or at least "forced lord"

imo its not whether lord is important or not in FE, but FE care about characterization, and the culmination of characterization in FE is the lord. more dialogue lines, more important role, more involved with the conflict at large, etc. when it becomes out of the picture, im sure so many character in FE series will stop having reason to join in the war effort, which in turn making the power potential of the good guy lessen a lot.

but of course thats just my understanding in (local) war history. where the fight against colonialism, invaders, etc become not-so-hopeless when someone rise to become "lord" unit. altho they still lose too most of the time... Thats how important "lord" in war setting, that i consider it an identity in FE. because FE setting is war

also "satisfying when losing" is beyond me too since i dont do ironman run in any game.

but not less important, im confused:

50 minutes ago, lenticular said:

They could do, but I don't particularly think that they'd have to....

...

...

...so it's something I'd be interested in seeing shaken up.

did you want lord to stay or not?

Edited by joevar
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I have no idea if this idea has been done before but a lord who is either a prince or a princess who has no experience in combat what so ever and they get trained in combat along the story by the Jagen who is a Master Knight (who doesn't have to be old but could be maybe in their late 20s or early 30s) and the player gets to decide what they want the lord's weapons to be and what role they want them to commit to. And then the "legendary weapons" are like the ones from FE6 and FE7 where there isn't a certain character needed. Idk I just thought up this idea.

I also kind of want to see a lord who is the Tiki character (a Divine Dragon manakete basically), who is asexual aromantic and been asleep for over 10,000 years and basically goes on a journey to find their mother and father with the Bantu character and then meets another lord type character whose like some mercenary hired by the Bantu character to help get the Child to wherever the Divine Dragon tribe lives and like they become friends or something and the whole war thing is maybe cultists and the shifters who worship the Dragons and also want to see the child home safely. And instead of an evil cult we get kingdoms trying to get ahold of the lord because they want to use the lord as a weapon because of the raw power they possess. And the endgame is basically against the combined efforts of the kingdoms to get the lord I guess.

 

Sorry, if these are not well written or thought out given they just popped up in my head.

 

 

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4 hours ago, OutcastsofRelix said:

I have no idea if this idea has been done before but a lord who is either a prince or a princess who has no experience in combat what so ever and they get trained in combat along the story by the Jagen who is a Master Knight (who doesn't have to be old but could be maybe in their late 20s or early 30s) and the player gets to decide what they want the lord's weapons to be and what role they want them to commit to. And then the "legendary weapons" are like the ones from FE6 and FE7 where there isn't a certain character needed. Idk I just thought up this idea.

I also kind of want to see a lord who is the Tiki character (a Divine Dragon manakete basically), who is asexual aromantic and been asleep for over 10,000 years and basically goes on a journey to find their mother and father with the Bantu character and then meets another lord type character whose like some mercenary hired by the Bantu character to help get the Child to wherever the Divine Dragon tribe lives and like they become friends or something and the whole war thing is maybe cultists and the shifters who worship the Dragons and also want to see the child home safely. And instead of an evil cult we get kingdoms trying to get ahold of the lord because they want to use the lord as a weapon because of the raw power they possess. And the endgame is basically against the combined efforts of the kingdoms to get the lord I guess.

Sorry, if these are not well written or thought out given they just popped up in my head.

No worries, you got your ideas across really well.

As fun as this sounds, it makes designing the Lord`s class(es) a massive pain. At best, they end up a jack of all trades who has no standout stats. At worst, they have no real strenghts and just end up below average, which would suck for a unit whose death means a game over.

A Divine Dragon Lord is an interesting idea. It could explore what the world is like from the pov of someone who ages much slower than average. Heck, maybe they could expect to be worshipped by others and is offended when they aren`t. 

15 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Not per se the lords themselves but I hope future entrees won't be afraid to spice up the lord's supporting cast a bit. 

Usually the lord is supported by a very tried and tested collection of classes. You always start out with two cavalry, a Jagen, a mage and an archer as the core retainers of the lord. And these classes tend to always be represented by the same sort of characters. The two cavaliers are always rather bland and maybe contrast each other, the mage is always a young boy, the Jagen is mostly an elderly fellow or at least a decade senior compared to the lord.

They should change this up. Rather than a boy the mage could instead be an old man who picked up magic very late in his life. Maybe he's the Jagen who picked up magic because his old age ensured he no longer has the strength to carry arms. Maybe the actual Jagen shouldn't be an old man who mentored the lord all his life but a young and cocky mercenary who doesn't know or like the lord. 

It would be nice to have them change up the Lord`s common retainers. Maybe have the Jaigen be a healer designed to support their weaker allies, or have the archer be a armor knight that serves as a bodyguard. Existing "archetypes" could also be altered, like having the Cain and Abel dislike each other, or making the Mage have selfish/altruistic motives for helping.

Related to this, I have always wanted to see what some of these "archetypes" would look on the enemy side. The Jaigen could be an early game enemy commander, with the Cain and Abel being reoccuring mini bosses who, during each encounter, has a higher support level with each other. 

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22 hours ago, joevar said:

did you want lord to stay or not?

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking me here. Yes, I would be interested in seeing a FE game without a lord. I was saying that if they did decide to get rid of the lord then they could add additional defeat conditions to compensate, but that they wouldn't have to. Does that answer your question?

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5 minutes ago, lenticular said:

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking me here. Yes, I would be interested in seeing a FE game without a lord. I was saying that if they did decide to get rid of the lord then they could add additional defeat conditions to compensate, but that they wouldn't have to. Does that answer your question?

Radiant Dawn is kind of a Fire Emblem game without a lord. Especially in Part 2 where you focus on a different set of characters almost every chapter.

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38 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Radiant Dawn is kind of a Fire Emblem game without a lord. Especially in Part 2 where you focus on a different set of characters almost every chapter.

Radiant Dawn is closer to being a game with a lot of different Lords. There's always at least one character who fulfils the gameplay role of "unit who is not allowed to die on this map". Though in terms of storyline, yeah, it's not too far removed, at least for parts of the game. But then you get things like the Micaiah and Black Knight chapter, or Ike having to land the final blow on Ashera, where it leans very heavily on "this is the main character!" Not coincidentally, Part 2 is my favourite part of Radiant Dawn, and possibly even my favourite part of any Fire Emblem game.

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1 hour ago, lenticular said:

Radiant Dawn is closer to being a game with a lot of different Lords. There's always at least one character who fulfils the gameplay role of "unit who is not allowed to die on this map". Though in terms of storyline, yeah, it's not too far removed, at least for parts of the game. But then you get things like the Micaiah and Black Knight chapter, or Ike having to land the final blow on Ashera, where it leans very heavily on "this is the main character!" Not coincidentally, Part 2 is my favourite part of Radiant Dawn, and possibly even my favourite part of any Fire Emblem game.

A lord is two things, either the protagonist of the story or a unit that must be protected with some extra functions in gameplay (namely seizing but also visiting villages for Marth). In the first case you're not going to get anything more like that than Radiant Dawn while still having a focused story. Yes, Micaiah and Ike are kind of presented as the main protagonists, but that's more framing than the actual narrative. Because Radiant Dawn focuses on a tonne of different characters throughout it's story. The early part 3 scenes are not focused on Ike, they're primarily focused on Soren, Ranulf and Skrimr, for example. The late part 3 stuff is very focused on Mcaiah, but also very focused on Pelleas. Part 3 Hawk army has such a spread out focus that even calling it the Hawk army is misleading (I think it should have made Elincia the gameplay lord there to make a nice dichotomy with Parts 1, 2 and 3). The closest thing to a traditional proatgonist is Micaiah in part 1 and even that has an inordinately spread focus compared to most Fire Emblem titles (though sadly not really with Micaiah's supposed closest friends, it's mostly the Izuka show, though I'll also note that we get a lot more connected with Jarod and his situation than most early game Fire Emblem villains, hell most villains in the franchise period).

On the other side of the road is gameplay lacking a central special character. Which is currently possible in the series with casual mode. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Chrom or Robin die in casual mode, you don't lost the chapter, right? Of course one can still cry fowl as the games aren't designed in that way to begin with. Really the game with the most focused design on not having a central special character is Fire Emblem Heroes. As you can build your army out of any combination of units with no one unit ever being forced deploy. the closest being some game modes which limit  you to characters from a certain continuity.

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Chrom or Robin die in casual mode, you don't lost the chapter, right?

Incorrect, their deaths still cause a Game Over on Casual Mode. Same with Corrin in Fates, Alm and Celica in Echoes and Byleth in Three Houses. It`s Phoenix Mode that lets them die without causing a Game Over, which only exists in Fates.

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38 minutes ago, Metal Flash said:

Incorrect, their deaths still cause a Game Over on Casual Mode. Same with Corrin in Fates, Alm and Celica in Echoes and Byleth in Three Houses. It`s Phoenix Mode that lets them die without causing a Game Over, which only exists in Fates.

Ah well. I don't really play casual mode, so some gaps in knowledge.

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On 1/11/2022 at 10:14 AM, AnonymousSpeed said:

BEG FOR THE EGG

As much as the idea of the protagonist being just a normal dude sounds nice, I'd be cautious of how that works in practice. In something like Fire Emblem, with a large cast of characters and events that affect large groups of people, you kind of expect there to be something special about the main character. Not all the tropes of Russian literature can be practically applied.

A normal protagonist can work in a lot of ways: 

* An accidental hero, a protagonist similar to Frodo: a random villager that is in the wrong place in the wrong moment (or correct place in the right moment). For example, a villager that is entrusted or finds the Fire Emblem for whatever reason (a dying person gave it to them; their village was invaded and they stole it from the enemies for survival reasons without knowing what it is), and then to protect the object and their own life, they are put in a bigger journey, on a bigger world.

* Another idea is that there's a famine or any problem with supplies in the village where they live, therefore they decide to travel or enlist in the army to get another source of money, tarting the story, with the secondary lord probably being the leader of the army. 

* A pirate or thief part of a rebel group that wants to take down the king. Similar to Leif and Seliph but  without the royal background and they are part of a more organised group, see Avalanche from Final Fantasy for example. They don't want to take the throne but to end the corrupted system, the Lord doesn't even need to be the leader of the group, but probably the most talented or dedicated 

* The witch's hunt idea can work with a considerably normal protagonist since rebelling and fighting back  is a survival responder and wanting revenge is a common feeling in this situation.  Sure being magical is not something average, but in that case the lord wouldn't need to be royalty chosen by the gods 

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On 1/21/2022 at 10:39 PM, lenticular said:

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking me here. Yes, I would be interested in seeing a FE game without a lord. I was saying that if they did decide to get rid of the lord then they could add additional defeat conditions to compensate, but that they wouldn't have to. Does that answer your question?

oh, i was confused at the first sentence. turns out thats about battle condition. so yes, i got my answer.

4 hours ago, genesis said:

A normal protagonist can work in a lot of ways: 

* An accidental hero, a protagonist similar to Frodo: a random villager that is in the wrong place in the wrong moment (or correct place in the right moment). For example, a villager that is entrusted or finds the Fire Emblem for whatever reason (a dying person gave it to them; their village was invaded and they stole it from the enemies for survival reasons without knowing what it is), and then to protect the object and their own life, they are put in a bigger journey, on a bigger world.

* ...the Lord doesn't even need to be the leader of the group, but probably the most talented or dedicated

*correct me if im wrong since i dont follow LotR that close*

thats tried-and-true formula for compelling protag, but unfortunately frodo didnt lead a big army unlike aragon (aragorn?). so frodo fits more for traditional jrpg game than srpg, unless we cut down the playable cast to less than 10.

also cant be a "lord" when you dont have any authority or not leading anything at all. since thats the literal meaning of lord. unless theres another lord that act as a leader, which make the point moot. (FE7, FE12, FE13)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  -

seeing edelgard is quite popular for good and bad reason, im sure they will introduce another female lord for new FE. so another story that i want see or inspired from:

a female protag (could be noble or from a respectable family of her village at least) that already married to a noble and had a child at the start of story. at early point of the story her husband died while fending off invader, so she plead to take revenge by joining the army.

Spoiler

later she married to the commander of the army that she joins. (so, noble-couple protagonists). altho later on her second husband will die too in middle of the war. and she choose to continue to lead the war with her child thats also in the army and with the memories of her two late husbands

the basic idea is i want to see something of an anti-Nyna. instead of a beautiful but helpless damsel in distress stuck in loveless marriage and unrequited love, this one could live far from frontlines (due to her status and renowned beauty) and stop getting even more sadness, but willingly choose the hard way by taking the banner instead. even though that path riddled with more sadness along the way.

yes, its from real history

Edited by joevar
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Another idea I came up with, this time with two Lords. Lord A is male while Lord B is female. 

Lord A and Lord B were dating prior to the story, but broke up on bad terms. As war starts to brew, they are forced to work together, which makes things awkward. 

An alternate idea I had was to have a Lord who is already King/Queen and have the story focus on the responsibilities of ruling and the challenges that come with it.

I kinda want to see another attempt at a "conquerer" type storyline. The Lord could be freeing people from a tyranical rule by making them part of the empire he is from. Or have another people want to join the empire to have a better life. That said, I doubt they would actually do this due to recent history and Japan`s imperial past.

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On 1/22/2022 at 7:52 PM, joevar said:

a female protag (could be noble or from a respectable family of her village at least) that already married to a noble and had a child at the start of story. at early point of the story her husband died while fending off invader, so she plead to take revenge by joining the army.

So... something sort-of like Boudica? Only joining an army instead of leading an army (and the husband dying in battle).

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1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

So... something sort-of like Boudica? Only joining an army instead of leading an army (and the husband dying in battle).

no, she also became the leader of the army. its just that she join already existing army instead of creating a new band of soldier.

She started as slightly above common soldier due to her status, knowledge, and formal education (she's a proper noble), rise through the ranks, become the wife of the commander, and finally become the commander/leader when her husband died. more or less like that.

10 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

I kinda want to see another attempt at a "conquerer" type storyline. The Lord could be freeing people from a tyranical rule by making them part of the empire he is from. Or have another people want to join the empire to have a better life. That said, I doubt they would actually do this due to recent history and Japan`s imperial past.

*actual slogan from Japan Imperial days:

Spoiler

Gerakan_3a.jpeg

"Japan the light of Asia, Japan the protector of Asia, Japan the leader of Asia"

 

ye, im sure they wont since its a sensitive topic. or maybe they could by changing questionable stuff and make it a bit more... mild

10 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

An alternate idea I had was to have a Lord who is already King/Queen and have the story focus on the responsibilities of ruling and the challenges that come with it.

is this a Crusader King (video game) reference?

Edited by joevar
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