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Shanty Pete's 1st Mate

Matrimonial Mondays, Week 9: Summary

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Prologue: Matrimonial Mondays

Welcome, one and all, to "Matrimonial Mondays". Basically, I thought it'd be cool to do a weekly series discussing and rating all the potential pairings in Genealogy of the Holy War, generation 1. This is nothing new - everyone has favorite pairings, and plenty of ink has been spilled over which matchups are best. That said, one thing I haven't really seen is comprehensive discussion - that is to say, looking at every possible pairing, even the ones we'd normally write off right away. For good reason, perhaps, but I'd like to take a look at all the options. As such, I'm breaking this down week-by-week, looking at one marriageable maiden each week. There are seven eligible bachelorettes, and thirteen unconfirmed bachelors, making for 91 total marriages. A large number, but definitely doable.

I want to inspire discussion, but I'll also be rating each pairing. These ratings consider the ease of matching up and the effect on the parents, alongside how the kids benefit from each different daddy. Ratings assume going for a "ranked run", so elements like leveling your Dancer and keeping everyone alive matter more than they might in a more casual run. Here's the scale I'll be using:

(*): The single-best matchup for the woman in question. This pairing will usually be easy to set up, will provide benefits to both children, and may even help out the parents as well.

(A): A very good matchup, usually offering something that the "best" pairing is missing, but has some flaw holding it back.

(B): A matchup that provides something of value to at least one child, but may harm the other child or simply be difficult to set up.

(C): A matchup that offers little-to-nothing of value to either child or parent, and is generally not worth pursuing.

So, let's get right down to it!

Chapter 1: Edain

Edain is the second woman to join Sigurd's company, after Ethlyn, sister of Sigurd and wife of Quan. As such, she is the first playable female unit whose partner you can choose, and therefore the first one we'll be talking about. She joins at the start of chapter 1, as a level 3 Priest, on the run from Verdane's fiercest forces. She joins with a Mend staff and 5000 gold to her name. She has a B rank in Staves, and possesses minor Ullr Holy blood. Her stats are as follows:

Spoiler

HP: 28 + 0.70x

Str: 0 + 0.20x

Mag: 13 + 0.30x

Skl: 8 + 0.20x

Spd: 9 + 0.30x

Lck: 11 + 0.60x

Def: 1 + 0.20x

Res: 10 + 0.05x

In the second generation, her children are Lana and Lester. Lana joins from the very start of Chapter 6. She joins as a level 1 Priest, able to use B-rank staves, with a Heal staff. She inherits items and minor Ullr holy blood from her mother, but may also inherit skills and minor Holy blood from her father. Lester joins not long after, on turn 3 of Chapter 6. He starts out as a level 1 Arch Knight with A-rank Bows and an Iron Bow. He inherits minor Ullr holy blood from his mother, and inherits items, skills, and potential holy blood from his father. For each of these units, their growth rates will depend on the pairing at hand, while their base stats will depend on their parents' stats at the end of the first generation. Now, who makes the best father for these two very different child units?

i. Naoise

Spoiler

 

Naoise and Edain start with 0 love points together, gaining 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Naoise adjacent to the foot-locked Edain, which is necessary if you wish to pair them together.

From this pairing, Lana receives the Accost and Critical skills. Neither is of particular use to a healer, and Accost may actually do her more harm than good, giving enemies more chances to hit her. That said, they can be decent combat skills after promotion. She'll have a very healthy 110% HP growth and 40% Defense growth, but her 32% Magic growth is a bit lacking.

As for Lester, he also gets Accost and Critical. Accost can be a double-edged sword, but Critical is generally to his benefit, barring scenarios where he needs a soft touch to set up the kill. Outside of Accost, he'll have no way of hitting more than once. 125% HP, 50% Strength, and 50% Defense are all solid, but 35% Speed isn't great. Since his father cannot wield bows, he will not inherit any weapons.

Rating: C. Edain/Naoise is tricky to set up, for little benefit. Neither parent particularly benefits from the pairing. Lana will rely on staff inheritance from her mother for her performance. Lester will get pretty good growths, but will lack the all-important Pursuit skill.

 

ii. Alec

Spoiler

 

Alec and Edain start with 0 love points together, gaining 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Alec adjacent to the foot-locked Edain, which is necessary if you wish to pair them together.

Lana gets the Pursuit and Nihil skills from her father. Pursuit is irrelevant until she promotes, but at that point, it will help her in the arena. Nihil is exceptionally niche for her. 75% Luck growth is very strong, but 32% Magic growth is very lacking.

Lester also receives the Pursuit and Nihil skills. Pursuit is excellent for him, as even with an Iron Bow he outspeeds enemy Axe-users, Lance-users, and Dark Mages, letting him reliably get a second hit in. Nihil is niche, but can be useful against foes with effective weaponry or dangerous combat skills. 115% HP, 50% Skill, and 45% Speed are all workable, but 40% Strength and 40% Defense aren't the best.

Rating: B. Edain/Alec isn't very easy to set up, and it doesn't benefit either parent. That said, it gives Lester the Pursuit skill, alongside passable stats for physical combat. Lana will rely on inheriting good staves from her mother.

 

iii. Arden

Spoiler

 

Arden and Edain start with 0 love points together, and gain 2 points per turn. They have no notable conversations together. Since they both have 5 move, it will not likely be difficult to keep these units adjacent to each other, which is necessary if you wish to pair them together.

Lana receives the Vantage skill from her father. This is utterly worthless before promotion, and worth little afterwards. 115% HP and 40% Defense are good growths for her, but 32% Magic and 25% Skill are both miserable.

Lester also receives the Vantage skill from his father. Being locked to 2-range attacks, it benefits him very little. That said, Lester can actually inherit weapons from this pairing. A promoted Arden can use B-rank Bows, such as the Killer Bow, which he will then pass on. As for growths, 135% HP and 50% Defense are great, as it 60% Strength. 20% Skill and 35% Speed are disappointing, however.

Rating: B. Edain/Arden is a touch easier to set up than the prior pairings, although the game offers you few favors on that front. This is a very poor pairing for Lana, but as usual, her performance largely follows her mother's. As for Lester, while he lacks Pursuit, he has some good growths, and he can inherit the powerful Killer Bow from a promoted Arden.

 

iv. Azelle

Spoiler

 

Azelle and Edain start with 120 love points together, and gain 1 per turn. In chapter 1, Azelle can converse with her, thus building 50 love points. In chapter 4, if they are married, Edain can acquire the Rescue staff from Azelle. Their movement is very similar before promotion, so it should not be difficult at all pairing these two units together.

Lana inherits the Pursuit skill from Azelle. This is of no use before promotion, but can help afterward. Minor Fala holy blood means also means that she can wield Elfire after promotion, for a higher-might spell. Although Edain received Rescue, Lana cannot inherit it, because she is limited to B-rank staves before promotion. As for growths, 65% Magic is excellent for a Healer, while 55% Speed can help her dodge and double after promotion. On the flip side, 30% Skill and 30% Defense are less impressive.

Lester inherits the Pursuit skill from his father. Since Azelle cannot wield bows, Lester will not inherit any weapons from him. In terms of growths, 65% Speed is his standout area, while 12% Resistance sits above usual. However, 20% Strength and 30% Defense are very disappointing.

Rating: A. This pairing is exceptionally easy to build, and grants Edain the earliest possible access to the Rescue staff. Lana appreciates her heightened Magic growth, in terms of being effective with healing and status staves. Elfire and Pursuit are a nice post-promotion bonus. As for Lester, his high Speed will combine well with the Pursuit skill. Unfortunately, his low Strength and lack of Bow inheritance will leave him doing little damage.

 

v. Lex

Spoiler

 

Lex and Edain start with 0 love points together, gaining 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Lex adjacent to the foot-locked Edain, which is necessary if you wish to pair them together.

Lana inherits the Paragon and Vantage skills from Lex. While Vantage is of little use, Paragon is excellent for her. When using staves, she'll receive twice as much experience as usual. This will hasten her path to promotion, while also lessening the need to spam staff uses for the sake of EXP. As for growths, boosted by minor Neir holy blood, 125% HP and 60% Defense give her great durability, but 32% Magic is certainly a letdown.

Lester inherits Paragon and Vantage as well. Despite their similar looks, Lex cannot wield Bows, and thereby cannot pass them along to his son. Vantage is again iffy on a ranged combat unit, but Paragon is always welcome. He'll grow more quickly, not just on the field of battle, but in the Arena as well. And not needing to buy the Paragon Band opens up his purse to other purchases (say, the Pursuit band). 135% HP, 50% Strength, and 60% Defense are certainly good, but 30% Skill and 35% Speed are lackluster.

Rating: B. This isn't a particularly easy pairing to build up, and many other mothers want Lex more. That said, any pairing which passes down Paragon is at least worth a look. Lester will have very good combat stats, but at the cost of Bow inheritance or any chance of doubling. Lana becomes surprisingly bulky, too, while Paragon helps her to promote sooner and with less effort.

 

vi. Finn

Spoiler

 

Finn and Edain start with 0 love points together, gaining 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Finn adjacent to the foot-locked Edain, which is necessary if you wish to pair them together.

Lana inherits Pursuit and Miracle from Finn. Pursuit is only useful after promotion. Miracle improves her survivability in the field, but can really stand out in the arena once she promotes. As for growths, 85% Luck is excellent, but 32% Magic is the usual amount of disappointment. One more thing - in chapter 7, after seizing Darna castle, Finn can speak with Lana, granting her a whopping +5 Magic.

Lester also inherits Pursuit and Miracle from his father. Unfortunately, he cannot inherit any of his father's weapons. Despite this, Finn will begin chapter 7 with just an Iron Lance. Pursuit is great on him, while Miracle can help him get through scary arena opponents. A 95% Luck growth is a real standout, but 40% Strength isn't the best.

Rating: B. This isn't the easiest pairing to set up, especially in light of Finn's early departure in generation 1. Still, Lester enjoys any pairing that gives him Pursuit, especially in conjunction with a not-terrible Strength stat. Both kids get great Luck stats (in a game where Luck means little), while Lana enjoy a surprise boost to Magic by speaking to her father. Miracle can be great in the Arena (and situational outside of it), but this pairing does mean Finn loses all his items before generation 2 starts.

 

vii. Midir

Spoiler

 

Midir and Edain start with 120 love points together, gaining 1 per turn. In chapter 1, Midir may speak with her, building 100 points together. In chapter 4, if they are married, Edain can give him the Brave Bow. Midir is much more mobile than Edain, but Canto might help him end his turn adjacent to her.

Lana gets Pursuit and Accost from her father. Again, Accost is more likely to hurt than help early on, but Pursuit is great after promotion. As far as growths go, 50% Speed is pretty nice, while 32% Magic is still bad.

Lester also gets Pursuit and Accost from his father. These are great for him, ensuring he hits his target at least twice, and often more. In addition, Lester will inherits his father's bows. This can include the Brave Bow, letting him strike up to four times before even considering Accost, and the Killer Bow, which is light and accurate. As for growths, 55% Speed is great for him, while 55% Luck is a bit lower than usual.

Rating: *. Without a doubt, this is the best pairing for Lester. He gets the ability to reliably double, and he can inherit powerful weapons, including the Brave Bow. Speaking of which, getting to use the Brave Bow in the flier-heavy chapters 4 and 5 is very cool. This pairing is one of the easier ones to set up, particularly with the chapter 1 conversation. As for Lana, she'll rely on her mother as usual, but Pursuit at least is nice once she promotes.

 

viii. Dew

Spoiler

 

Dew and Edain start with 0 love points together, gaining 2 per turn. In chapter 1, after seizing Genoa castle, Dew can speak to Edain, building 50 love points and awarding her the powerful Warp staff. With similar mobility, it's easy to keep them together, especially in early chapter 1 when they're on the run together.

Lana gets Bargain from Dew. This is one of the skills that's actually a big help to a healer, halving the cost to repair her staves or to buy new ones. With enough money, she can also comfortably buy rings, like the Magic Ring or Paragon Band. As growths go, 50% Speed and 80% Luck are both good for her, but 95% HP is kind of low for this game.

Lester similarly gains the Bargain skill from his father, letting him buy valuable rings and bows more easily. He doesn't inherit any weapons and can't double without the Pursuit band, however. In terms of growths, 50% each in Strength, Skill, and Defense is great, as is 55% Speed - but again, 95% HP isn't the best.

Rating: B. This pairing isn't very hard to set up, especially with how these two start out together in chapter 1. Lester will decry the lack of inherited weapons and combat skills, but Bargain can help him make up ground on this front. As for Lana, Bargain allows for cheaper staff repairs and ring purchases. Not the best for either kid, but worth considering.

 

ix. Jamke

Spoiler

 

Jamke and Edain start with 250 love points, and gain 1 per turn thereafter. Their first conversation in chapter 1 is where Edain recruits him, while in their post-marital conversation in chapter 4, Edain gives him the Brave Bow. They both have infantry mobility, although Jamke maintains a 1-move advantage.

Lana gets the Adept and Accost skills from Jamke. Accost may become an issue, while Adept can become a less reliable Pursuit after she promotes. As growths go, 115% HP and 80% Luck are both good, while 30% Magic and 25% Skill are no good.

Lester also gets Adept and Accost from his father. Not only this, but he will also inherits his father's bows, which can include the Brave Bow and Killer Bow. This can ensure that, even without Pursuit, he gets at least two attacks in, while he's got a good shot at securing even more shots. As for his growths, 135% HP is tremendous, while 60% Strength and 80% Luck shine too. Then again, 20% Skill puts his reliability into question.

Rating: A. This is another relatively easy pairing to set up, starting from a very high love level. Jamke enjoys the Brave Bow just as much as Midir before him. This pairing also creates the second-best Lester possible - he has great Strength, and while he's missing Pursuit, starting with the Brave Bow makes up for it. Both kids have good bulk, but as usual, Lana will depend on inheritance from her mother.

 

x. Chulainn

Spoiler

 

Chulainn and Edain start with 0 love points, gaining 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. Chulainn has similar mobility to Jamke, so it's not that hard keeping tied to Edain. Then again, they'll have to make up for missing chapter 1 together.

A Lana fathered by Chulainn will be one of the rare child units with no skills. Minor Odo holy blood doesn't help her weapon ranks, but it affects her growths. 135% HP and 75% Skill are both solid, while 32% Magic is still bad.

Like his sister, Lester receives no skills from this pairing. He also receives no weapons, as his father is locked to swords. His growths are impacted by minor Odo holy blood. 155% HP and 90% Skill knock it out of the park, while 65% Luck is on the low side for Lester.

Rating: C. There is very little reason to go for this pairing. Chulainn can't pass down his Swords or the Luna skill to either child. Lester will have pretty good growths, but he'd rather have Pursuit and/or good bows. Lana will have good durability and post-promotion hit rates, but she gets little else out of it.

 

xi. Beowolf

Spoiler

 

Beowolf and Edain start with 100 love points together, gaining 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Beowolf adjacent to the foot-locked Edain, which is necessary if you wish to pair them together.

Lana receives the Pursuit and Accost skills if Beowolf is her father. Accost can hurt more than it helps, but Pursuit is welcome once she promotes. Now, for the growths: 110% HP is good, but 30% Magic is bad.

Lester also gets Pursuit and Accost from his father. As with Midir, this can help him get in enough hits to kill his target. But unlike Midir, Beowolf will not pass any weapons on to his son. Lester gets some good growths out of it, such as 125% HP, 50% Strength, and 50% Skill, but 65% Luck isn't great for him.

Rating: B. This pairing grants similar skills to Edain/Midir, but it's harder to set up. It also fails to pass Bows along to Lester. Lana gets next to nothing out of it until promotion, while Lester gets some good skills and stat growths. It's far from the best, but it's not the worst for him either.

 

xii. Lewyn

Spoiler

 

Lewyn and Edain start with 50 love points together, gaining 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. Lewyn has just 1 point of movement over Edain, however, so it's not too hard to keep them adjacent.

With Lewyn as her father, Lana gets the Adept and Critical skills. Neither of these will be of any use until she promotes. When she does, however, her minor Sety holy blood will open up a new possibility - she will be able to use the Elwind tome in battle. As for growths, 115% HP and 75% Speed are both very good, while 45% Magic is a cut above that granted by most physical fathers. 30% Defense isn't the best, though.

Lester gets Adept and Critical from the crown prince of Silesse. As such, he has a good chance to deal bonus damage, but he can't do so reliably. He inherits major Sety holy blood, alongside a Forseti tome that he can never use. Looking at growths, 135% HP is great and 105% Speed is hilariously good, while 20% Strength returns on the hilariously bad side.

Rating: B. When thinking of whom to pair with Lewyn, Edain isn't at the head of anyone's list. His son wants bows and Pursuit - instead, he gets an unusable Forseti tome, taunting him. But it's not all bad news - Adept and Critical may let him achieve success in spite of his Strength. As for Lana, she gets better Magic and Speed than usual - combined with Elwind access, she can make a much more competent combatant than usual.

 

xiii. Claud

Spoiler

 

Claud and Edain start with 150 love points, and gain 3 per turn. They don't have much time together, but they do have identical mobility. Should they get hitched, Edain can speak with Claud in chapter 5 to gain the Rescue staff.

Unfortunately, Lana doesn't get any skills from her father. What she does get is something better: minor Blaggi holy blood. This boosts her Staff rank to A, letting her inherit the Rescue staff, and potentially Fortify, from her mother. This enables strategies that would otherwise not be possible in chapters 6 and 7. It also impacts her growths: 50% Magic is great, as are 85% Luck and 30% Resistance. 30% each in Speed and Defense, though, not so much.

As for Lester, he's coming off a hard time being considered Lewyn's son - but hey, it could be worse. He could have no ability to double or crit, alongside no weapon inheritance. That's the picture if Claud is his father. He does inherit one item - a Valkyrie staff that he can't use. Let's get growths out of the way: 20% Strength, 30% Skill, 30% Defense. He can barely hit, and when he does, he'll barely dent the foe. Some good news: 115% HP, 95% Luck, and 52% Resistance. That's right, this Lester is a mage-"killer", with heavy quotes around the "killer" part.

Rating: A. We all like to think our parents don't choose favorites. But in the case of Edain/Claud, it's clear that they've picked Lana as their golden child. This pairing creates the best possible Lana, making her a staffbot as potent as any the series has seen. On the flip side, it creates the worst possibly Lester, able to do little more than chip damage. He'll be immune to status staves, but that's about it. A great pairing if you want the blue-haired Arch Knight to lead a life of suffering.

 

Anyway, what do you think? Are these ratings fair? How would you rate the pairings in question? I hope to read your replies soon!

Edited by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
Formatting.

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No real quibbles to make out of this (It is a pretty simple inheritance situation), but I would like to ask if you're going to include the substitutes with each mother or if you want to do that as an appendix topic.

Edited by Dayni

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9 minutes ago, Dayni said:

No real quibbles to make out of this (It is a pretty simple inheritance situation), but I would like to ask if you're going to include the substitutes with each mother or if you want to do that as an appendix topic.

Good question! I wasn't necessarily planning on covering the substitutes here, since I view them as sufficiently different from their base units. Plus, I only have experience with a handful of substitutes, so it'd mostly be theory-crafting. That said, if there's demand for discussing the subs, they could be the topic of week 8.

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Just now, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Good question! I wasn't necessarily planning on covering the substitutes here, since I view them as sufficiently different from their base units. Plus, I only have experience with a handful of substitutes, so it'd mostly be theory-crafting. That said, if there's demand for discussing the subs, they could be the topic of week 8.

I do think that for most people many of the pairings are theorycrafting as is. It's because they're mutually exclusive from the children that I feel it makes sense to go for the direct comparison.

On another thing, it's a shame that it'd take so much to accurately track what base stats the kids get from their parents (as that too can increase based on what the parents had), it'd be good to show what they can work with in certain scenarios (A certain thief springs to mind). Though at least because so many are growth units those do matter to a greater degree (A certain pairing for the next character is an example of that)

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I probably won't have too much to say about these, but I think this one is interesting because it's possibly the only set of kids who need to optimized in vastly different ways. Lana clearly does better with Claud as her dad (hello Rescue, hello Fortify), and Lester clearly does better with Midir (hello Brave Bow, Followup, and good speed). This has a dramatic impact on their unit worth, but the good versions can't co-exist with each other.

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53 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I probably won't have too much to say about these, but I think this one is interesting because it's possibly the only set of kids who need to optimized in vastly different ways. Lana clearly does better with Claud as her dad (hello Rescue, hello Fortify), and Lester clearly does better with Midir (hello Brave Bow, Followup, and good speed). This has a dramatic impact on their unit worth, but the good versions can't co-exist with each other.

Yep - it's a classic "Sophie's Choice" (er, "Edain's choice"?). My rationale for picking Midir as the best partner for Edain was that A) he's the best father for Lester, and B) Midir!Lana isn't that much worse than Claud!Lana. She's worse, sure, but not by nearly the same margin as how much worse Claud!Lester is than Midir!Lester. Claud!Lester is basically a dump unit, while Midir!Lana is just Adean 2.0.

This is actual the pairing I'm using on my current Genealogy playthrough. Rescue on Lana has trimmed a turn here or there, but I don't think it's saved a life yet. And Lana's in an awkward spot - as of chapter 7, I want to keep her in the home castle for a Return-Warp volley with Nanna (i.e. how to get Seliph from Darna to Melgen in a single turn). But doing so means she never has occasion to use Rescue. As for Lester, he's by far my worst unit, doing single-digit damage basically all the time. That won't stop me from feeding him kills like a total masochist, though!

3 hours ago, Dayni said:

On another thing, it's a shame that it'd take so much to accurately track what base stats the kids get from their parents (as that too can increase based on what the parents had), it'd be good to show what they can work with in certain scenarios (A certain thief springs to mind). Though at least because so many are growth units those do matter to a greater degree (A certain pairing for the next character is an example of that)

Of course bases matter, and I'm not trying to treat growths as all-important when they're not. I neglected to include them here, owimg to a couple factors: 1) they're all ranges based on player performance and the RNG, so I'm not sure whether minimums, maximums, or averages are the most fair representation; and 2) this writeup as-is took me close to two hours, and I was at my limit.

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I think my only complaint is that the B tier is VERY wide, I think it would lead to a bit more interesting discussion if the split were more of a D-A, with D being the current C tier, and splitting the current B tier into a new C and B tier seperated some measure of quality, although exactly where that split should be I am not certain of.

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5 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I think my only complaint is that the B tier is VERY wide, I think it would lead to a bit more interesting discussion if the split were more of a D-A, with D being the current C tier, and splitting the current B tier into a new C and B tier seperated some measure of quality, although exactly where that split should be I am not certain of.

That is fair. I named these tiers as such because they match the weapon ranks in Genealogy, where C is the lowest. I can understand wanting them to be threshed out a bit more. But personally, I'm not sure where I'd draw the line. Are the "Pursuit pairings" better than Edain/Arden, even though the latter can pass down the Killer Bow? Is Dew (with Bargain) a better partner than Lex (with Paragon)? These are fine questions to ask, but at a certain point, I want to keep my own job easier. The more tiers I have, the longer it'll take me to figure out an appropriate placement for each pairing.

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Welcome back to Matrimonial Mondays, the weekly series where we take a comprehensive look at potential pairings in the first generation of Genealogy of the Holy War. Last week, we looked at Edain, the “Lena” of this game. This time, however, we’re peering into the “Navarre”. All forced archetypes aside, let’s get into it!

Chapter Two: Ayra

Ayra, like Edain, joins in chapter 1 of Genealogy of the Holy War. But while Edain joins from turn one, Ayra must be recruited from the opposing army. The method is tricky, requiring Sigurd to seize Genoa castle before speaking with her, and it’s not uncommon for new players to lose an ally or kill Ayra in the process. But should you recruit her, she’ll join as a level 4 Myrmidon with the Pursuit, Nihil, and Astra skills. She brings an Iron Blade and 3000 gold along with her. She possesses minor Od holy blood, enabling her to wield A-rank Swords. From level 20 onward, she can promote to Swordmaster, gaining the Adept skill. Her stats, including bases, growths, Myrmidon caps, promotion bonuses, and Swordmaster caps, are as follows:

Spoiler

 

HP: 32 + 0.70x / 80, + 0 / 80

Str: 11 + 0.30x / 22, + 5 / 27

Mag: 0 + 0.05x / 15, + 0 / 15

Skl: 16 + 0.60x / 25, + 5 / 30

Spd: 17 + 0.30x / 25, + 5 /30

Lck: 3 + 0.20x / 30, + 0 / 30

Def: 7 + 0.20x / 20, + 2 / 22

Res: 1 + 0.05x / 15, + 3 / 18

Mov: 6, + 0

 

Looking at her stats, Ayra offers a classic “Myrmidon” statline: high Skill and Speed with more modest Strength and defensive stats. Her high speed, in conjunction with the Pursuit skill and the light weight of most swords, lets her double basically every enemy. It also boosts her avoid, which helps her survivability. Her high skill stat helps her to hit reliably, even when up against WTD or when using less accurate Blade weapons. It doesn’t boost her crit rate, since she lacks the Critical skill, but it does her one better. The Astra ability lets her do huge damage, killing all but the most defensive of foes when it activates. And when she promotes, she adds Adept to her skill list, taking her killing potential further. Her problems, then, boil down to her lackluster defenses and infantry mobility. Her combat may shine in the arena, but on the field of battle, she struggles to keep up with your cavalry. And she can’t take more than a couple hits, so she’d better hope she dodges plenty.

Ayra has two children: her daughter, Larcei (also known as Lakche), and her son, Scathach (also known as Skasahar or Ulster). Collectively, they are informally known as the “Sword Twins”.

Larcei joins from the first turn of chapter 6, as a level 1 Myrmidon. She joins with an Iron Blade, alongside inherited items and gold. She also starts off with Pursuit, Nihil, and Astra, as well as any personal skills her father may have passed on. She also has at least minor Od Holy Blood, letting her wield A-rank swords, and may receive Holy Blood from her father as well. At level 20 and beyond, she can promote to Swordmaster, gaining stats and the Adept skill. Her bases and growths vary depending on who her father is, and how her parents’ own level-ups went. Here is an example of Larcei’s stats, assuming Naoise as her father and roughly average bases:

Spoiler

 

HP: 27 + 1.10x / 80, + 0 / 80

Str: 9 + 0.50x / 22, + 5 / 27

Mag: 0 + 0.07x / 15, + 0 / 15

Skl: 12 + 0.75x / 25, + 5 / 30

Spd: 12 + 0.40x / 25, + 5 / 30

Lck: 5 + 0.30x / 30, + 0 / 30

Def: 6 + 0.40x / 20, + 2 / 22

Res: 0 + 0.07x / 15, + 3 / 18

Movement: 6, + 0

 

Scathach also joins from the first turn of chapter 6 as a level 1 Myrmidon. He also comes with an Iron Blade, alongside inherited items and gold. He starts with Pursuit, Nihil, and Astra, as well as skills that his father passed on. He comes with at least minor Od Holy blood, giving him A-rank Swords, and may receive Holy Blood from his father as well. At level 20 and beyond, he can promote to Hero (also known as Forrest). This boosts his stats, but will not give him any new skills. His bases and growths vary depending on who his father is, and how his parents’ own level-ups went. Here is an example of Scathach’s stats, assuming Naoise as his father and roughly average bases:

Spoiler

 

HP: 28 + 1.25x / 80, + 0 / 80

Str: 9 + 0.55x / 22, + 5 / 27

Mag: 0 + 0.07x / 15, + 3 / 18

Skl: 12 + 0.75x / 25, + 2 / 27

Spd: 11 + 0.35x / 25, + 2 / 27

Lck: 5 + 0.30x / 30, + 0 / 30

Def: 7 + 0.50x / 20, + 2 / 22

Res: 0 + 0.07x / 15, + 3 / 18

Movement: 6, + 0

 

When considering each potential father, rather than listing the whole stat distribution, I’ll point out areas that are notably different from the control, chosen arbitrarily to be Naoise. In any case, these units start out very similarly. Larcei follows especially in the mould of her mother (but with more HP), while Scathach (compared to his sister) is bulkier but slower. Of course, this can vary with how their growths go. Of the two, Larcei gets more speed and skill from her promotion, as well as Adept, while Scathach gets a bit more magic. Regardless, these two kids perform very similarly as units.

Now the time has come to ask: who is the best husband for Ayra, and father for Larcei and Scathach?

i. Naoise

Spoiler

 

Naoise and Ayra start with 0 love points together, and gain 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Naoise adjacent to the foot-locked Ayra, which is necessary if you want to pair them up, which occurs at 500 points.

From this pairing, Larcei receives the Critical and Accost skills. This will increase her potential to kill foes, although Accost is something of a double-edged sword. She can inherit any Swords and items used by her mother. Her stats are as shows above: strong in HP and Skill, but weak in Magic, Luck, and Resistance.

Like his sister, Scathach receives the Critical and Accost skills from Naoise. He can also inherit up to B-rank Swords from his father as well, whether he was promoted or not. His HP and Skill will be great, with solid Strength and Defense as well, but his Magic, Luck, and Resistance are all lacking.

Rating: B. With their different movement ranges, it may be tricky to set this pairing up. That said, Naoise passes down skills that will make the Sword Twins very fierce combatants, as well as generally decent stats. He can also pass down most relevant Swords to Scathach.

 

ii. Alec

Spoiler

 

Alec and Ayra start with 0 love points together, and gain 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Alec adjacent to the foot-locked Ayra, which is necessary if you want to pair them up.

Larcei receives no new skills from this pairing – she already inherited Nihil as a personal skill from her mother, and Pursuit comes baked in to the Myrmidon class. Her bases and growths will only vary marginally from the “control”. As usual, she inherits weapons and items from her mother.

Scathach does not receive any new skills from this pairing. He can, however, inherit up to B-rank Swords from Alec. His statline will generally smooth out, with slightly less HP, Strength, and Defense in favor of better Speed and Luck, with Skill standing out even more than usual.

Rating: C. Birds of a feather may flock together, but when it comes to units sharing the same skill list? Pursuit is the single-most desirable combat skill in the game, but on Ayra’s husband, it’s just redundant. I considered bumping this up to B, for passing Swords along to Scathach, but plenty of Dads can do that. This pairing certainly isn’t worth hobbling Alec’s mobility.

 

iii. Arden

Spoiler

 

Arden and Ayra start with 0 love points together, and gain 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. While Arden is an infantry unit like Ayra, he also has 1 less movement, so keeping them adjacent requires her to slow down a step.

Larcei gains the Vantage skill from this pairing. This can help in the arena, in those rare instances where Larcei would get outsped for initiative, but also can work in the field of battle, to let an injured Larcei land the first (hopefully five) blow(s). It’s not reliable, but it can save her in a pinch. Her bases and growths will only vary marginally from the control. As usual, she inherits items from her mother.

Scathach also gains the Vantage skill, which he can use to similar effect to his sister. While an unpromoted Arden can only wield B-Swords, upon promotion, he can access A-Swords, thus letting him pass along any non-legendary (and non-Miracle) sword to his son. As stats go, his HP and Strength will reach momentous new heights, while his Skill and Speed will turn surprisingly average. And the less said of Magic, Luck, and Resistance, the better.

Rating: B. While the children may not inherit Arden’s dashing good looks, they do get generally strong combat stats, including more physical bulk than usual. Vantage is niche, but it can certainly come in handy. Moreover, Scathach appreciates the chance to inherit any type of sword, assuming you've gotten Arden to promote. Finally, this pairing isn’t too hard to set up, so long as you don’t mind Ayra keeping to the rear line.

 

iv. Azelle

Spoiler

 

Azelle and Ayra start with 0 love points together, and gain 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. While Azelle is an infantry unit like Ayra, he also has 1 less movement, so keeping them adjacent requires her to slow down a step. When Azelle promotes, however, he gains a mount and 4 points of move, thus reversing the disparity.

Larcei will not gain any skills from this pairing. Minor Fjalar holy blood, however, will impact her stats. While her Strength and Defense will be less impressive than usual, her Speed and Magic will be quite a bit stronger. This can make her an offensive “dual threat”, using magical swords at range against low-res foes. Triggering a ranged Astra might not be as flashy, but it’s a way to reliably take your target down while respecting social distancing.

Like his sister, Scathach gains no new skills from this pairing, but he does receive minor Fjalar holy blood. This affects his stats significantly – while he retains high HP and Skill, his Speed will be much more formidable than usual. In addition, while his Strength will start out higher than his Magic, the growths will be reversed, giving his Magic stat a chance to “catch up”. While Azelle only uses tomes in his base class, promoting to Mage Knight lets him pass B-rank Swords (including the C-rank magic swords) down to Scathach.

Rating: B. This pairing definitely comes out of left field, and it doesn’t seem ideal for either party – Ayra wants a father with skills other than Pursuit, while Azelle wants to pass his blood along to magically-inclined children. Still, this pairing allows the Sword twins to fill a niche of being especially proficient with magic swords (including the potential for ranged Astra). And with their similar movement before Azelle’s promotion (which tends to come late), it’s not too hard to get these two hitched.

 

v. Lex

Spoiler

 

Lex and Ayra start with 0 love points together, and gain 2 per turn. They have a conversation in chapter 3. Have Lex talk to Ayra, and they will gain 100 love points together. In addition, she will receive the powerful Brave Sword, making this a desirable conversation regardless of whether you intend to pair them or not. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Lex adjacent to the foot-locked Ayra.

With Lex as her father, Larcei will gain two new skills, in Paragon and Vantage. Vantage is niche, but potentially useful, for reasons already stated with Arden. Paragon, however, is a game-changer. A perpetually doubled EXP gain means that Larcei will have an easy time reaching promotion and capping level, even when doing little outside the Arena. Stat-wise, her HP will be better than ever, and with a Defense stat reinforced by minor Neir holy blood, she’ll make for a rather bulky Myrmidon.

Scathach receives the same benefits as his sister. Vantage is good, but Paragon is excellent. One more thing – having Paragon means never feeling a need to purchase the Paragon ring, thus giving both kids much more financial security. His stats are like his sister’s, but with even more bulk, at a slight cost to Skill and Speed. A problem, however – Lex cannot wield Swords, and as such, he cannot buy them to pass down. He can technically pass down enemy-dropped Swords (like Chagall’s Silver Blade), if he’s the one to get the kill, but doing so means forswearing their use in the first generation.

Rating: A. Lex is often considered Ayra’s strongest pairing, and reasonably so. Paragon is an excellent skill, and he’ll give the kids more Defense than they could ever achieve otherwise. Their disparate movement types would make a pairing seem difficult, but their chapter 3 conversation is equivalent to 20 turns of adjacency, giving the pair some breathing room. If there’s one flaw, it’s Lex’s inability to directly pass down Swords, outside of enemy drops.

 

vi. Finn

Spoiler

 

Finn and Ayra start with 0 love points together, and gain 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Finn adjacent to the foot-locked Ayra, which is necessary if you want to pair them up. Moreover, Finn’s early departure at the end of chapter 3 means a concerted effort must be made to achieve this pairing.

With Finn as her father, Larcei will gain the Miracle skill. This can help her break the Arena (even moreso than she was already doing with Astra), while also improving her field survivability in niche scenarios. In terms of stats, her Luck will be quite a bit better than usual, while other stats will not vary much from the control. One more thing – if Finn is Larcei’s father, he can speak to her after Dahna is seized in chapter 7, giving her +5 Skill.

Scathach similarly gains the Miracle skill, which he can use to similar effect as his sister. Unfortunately, he will not inherit any Swords (outside of potentially those dropped by bosses), because Finn cannot wield Lances. Despite this, a Finn who fathers Scathach will lose all but an Iron Lance before chapter 7. As for stats, his Skill will shine even brighter than usual, while his Luck will be much better, but his Strength and Defense may be a bit lacking.

Rating: C. Finn uniquely passes on the Miracle skill, alongside great Luck, so what could be wrong? Well, Miracle isn’t bad, but it’s not necessary to clear the Arena, and Larcei can get it regardless through the Miracle Sword. Also, Luck isn’t particularly valuable in this game. The pairing also demands some serious attention – with less than three full chapters together, and starting with 0 Luck points, these two will have to stick together. This often prevents Finn from fighting on the front lines. Finally, as with any Finn pairing, the loss of his weapons and items before his post-skip appearance is a serious bummer.

 

vii. Midir

Spoiler

 

Midir and Ayra start with 0 love points together, and gain 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Midir adjacent to Ayra, which is necessary if you want to pair them up.

Larcei will receive the Accost skill with Midir as her father. This can help her get the kill, but it can also hurt against ranged foes, or those with a Brave Lance. Her HP will be a touch lower, and her Speed higher, than usual, while other stats will vary little from the control.

Scathach also receives the Accost skill, to similar effect. His HP, Strength, Luck, and Defense stats will all trend lower than usual, while his Speed will trend higher. Since Midir only wields bows, he cannot pass any Swords down to Scathach.

Rating: C. Basically the Naoise pairing, but worse overall. Accost is the only skill he passes on, and it’s variable whether it’s even a desirable one or not. Plus, he doesn’t pass any Swords on to his son. Keeping these two together means gimping Midir’s movement for a pairing that doesn’t do anything special, outside of slightly better Speed than usual (which is rarely an issue for the kids).

 

viii. Dew

Spoiler

 

Dew and Ayra start with 0 love points together, and gain 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. Dew and Ayra are both infantry units with 6 movement, so it should be no trouble keeping them together. However, Dew receives an additional point of movement upon promotion, so he may be forced to slow down to keep adjacent to Ayra.

With Dew as her father, Larcei gets the all-important Bargain skill, letting her buy any weapon or item at half-price. Since she makes the same money back when returning an item or weapon to the pawn shop, there’s essentially no way for her to “lose” money. Freely being able to buy and sell the Paragon Ring is a liberating feeling. And it makes Larcei a great wife, as she’ll almost always have enough gold to lend to a broke husband. Larcei will also gain the Sol skill, potentially aiding her survivability, assuming no Miracle Sword strats. As for stats, her HP growth will be sub-100% (shocker), while Speed and Luck will do better than the control.

Like his sister, Scathach receives similarly huge benefits from the Bargain skill. The Sol skill is more of a mixed bag, although I have heard its activation only calculates after Astra is calculated not to happen – which, if accurate, means it has no ill effect on his killing potential. And while unpromoted Dew only carries C Swords, he jumps up to A-rank as a Rogue, letting him pass almost any Sword down. Finally, in terms of stats, while Scathach’s HP may lag, most of his other combat stats will be strong – and even his Magic and Resistance do slightly better than usual.

Rating: A. Ayra/Dew is very easy to set up – these two units join in similar places in the same chapter, and share the same movement stat. Sol is a fun combat skill, but the real benefit comes from Bargain, giving these kids free rein over the pawn shop. Their growths will be well-rounded, and Scathach appreciates the chance to inherit swords up to A-rank. A thief father sets these kids up for success!

 

ix. Jamke

Spoiler

 

Jamke and Ayra start with 0 love points together, and gain 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. Jamke and Ayra are both infantry units with 6 movement, so it should be no trouble keeping them together.

What does Larcei get out of being a princess of Verdane? The Adept skill may seem redundant, since she normally gets it upon promotion, but getting it earlier is better than not having it until later. Accost is iffy as usual. As for stats, her Luck will be better than usual, while her Skill might lag behind.

Scathach will get the same skills as his sister. In his case, however, the Adept skill is not redundant, since he doesn’t normally learn it upon promotion. It can help him get the kill, even without an Astra activation. As for stats, his Skill will be worse than usual, but his HP, Strength, and Luck will all shine. Unfortunately, because Jamke only wields bows, he cannot pass any weapons down to Scathach.

Rating: B. This pairing isn’t at all difficult to set up, owing to the similar mobility of the characters in question. Adept is a welcome skill on both the kids, too. While the Skill stat is somewhat compromised, other combat-relevant growth areas make up for it. The biggest flaw, then, is Jamke’s inability to pass Swords along to Scathach.

 

x. Chulainn

Spoiler

 

Chulainn and Ayra start with 0 love points together, and gain 2 per turn. Chulainn can speak to Ayra in chapter 3. Doing so will award Ayra with the Brave Sword, and grant 100 love points to the pair. Note that doing this conversation prevents the Lex-Ayra conversation from happening, and vice-versa. Chulainn and Ayra are both infantry units with 6 movement, so it should be no trouble keeping them together.

Larcei gains the Luna skill from this pairing. While it generally doesn’t do as much damage as Astra, it can still take a chunk out of foes while using up less durability. And… what’s this? Major Holy Blood? That’s right – Ayra and Chulainn are the only potential parents who share a minor blood type, and by putting it together, it turns into something Major. This affects Larcei’s stats, taking her HP and Skill in particular to new heights, with other stats in range of the control.

Claiming Chulainn as his father does a number on Scathach, too, giving him Major Od Holy blood. This affects his growths in a big way, giving him a jaw-dropping 155% in HP and 125% in Skill. If this seems like overkill, just remember that higher Skill means more Astra/Luna activations. His other growths will be somewhat pedestrian, with 45% Strength and 40% Defense stinging slightly. And since they share a class, Chulainn can pass any swords he can wield down to Scathach.

Rating: *. Genealogy has a reputation for its portrayal of incest, with fans fighting back and forth over whether its portrayal is a positive one, or a negative. In this particular case, however, I consider the concentration of holy blood to be a barely-legal case of wincest. Luna is great on the kids, especially undergirded by an immense Skill stat that promotes Astra too. And even with iffy Defense and bad Resistance, their HP will give them solid survivability. Finally, combining the Brave Sword conversation with their similar movement, it’s probably the easiest pairing for Ayra to pull off.

 

xi. Beowolf

Spoiler

 

Beowolf and Ayra start with 50 love points together, and gain 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Beowolf adjacent to the foot-locked Ayra, which is necessary if you wish to pair them up.

If Beowolf is Larcei’s father, she will inherit the Accost skill. And… that’s about it. Pursuit as a personal skill is redundant on her. Her growths are barely different from the control. By and large, she’ll just function as Ayra 2.0, but what else is new?

Scathach will be affected slightly more. He also gets Accost, and while his Skill will be slightly better than control, his Defense will be lower. Most importantly, however, Beowolf can pass down up to A-rank Swords, assuming he’s been promoted. This way, Scathach can have a good weapon setup to succeed.

Rating: B. This pairing doesn’t make a ton of sense, given these units’ differing movement types. Their stats won’t fall far outside the norm, and passing Pursuit onto the sword twins is a bit of a waste. Still, Scathach appreciates any pairing that can provide him up to A-rank Swords.

 

xii. Lewyn

Spoiler

 

Lewyn and Ayra start with 50 love points together, and gain 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. Lewyn and Ayra are both infantry units with 6 movement, so it should be no trouble keeping them together.

If Lewyn is her father, Larcei will gain the early Adept skill, as well as Critical. Both of these are welcome for the killing potential. Likewise, as a princess of Silesse, she’ll double up on holy blood, gaining minor Sety. While this won’t let her wield wind tomes, it will affect her growths. Her Magic will jump a bit (20% growth), but the biggest gain is to her Speed, at 75%. Her Strength and Defense will fall behind, though.

Like his sister, Scathach will get the Adept and Critical skills with Lewyn as his father, each of which can improve his combat. But unlike his sister, he inherits Major Sety holy blood. He can’t wield Forseti, so what’s the point? Well, his HP will be great with a 135% growth, and with a Speed growth of 105%, he’ll be as fast as the wind. A 32% Magic growth help him do damage with magic swords, but his Strength and Defense will both be on the low side. The bad news? Whether as a Bard or Sage, Lewyn cannot pass Swords down to his son.

Rating: B. Typically, you want to give Lewyn a son who will be able to wield Forseti, so Ayra hardly seems an ideal partner. However, the skills he passes on are very solid, at least. His inability to pass along Swords is unfortunate, but sky-high Speed growths are great on the kids, especially in conjunction with Adept. And with their similar movement, it shouldn’t be tricky at all to pair these two up.

 

xiii. Claud

Spoiler

 

Claud and Ayra start with 200 love points together, and gain 2 per turn. They have no notable conversations together. While Claud is also an infantry unit, he has 1 less movement than Ayra, so she may be forced to slow down to stay adjacent to him.

If Larcei is fathered by Claud, she won’t gain any new skills. However, her growths will be affected by minor Blaggi holy blood. This increases her Magic, Luck, and especially Resistance, but does no favors to her Strength or Defense. Uh… magic sword Larcei incoming?

Scathach doesn’t gain any new skills either, but in his case, the Blaggi holy blood is Major. Unfortunately, he can’t use any staves, making it something of a waste. Still, the growth impact is there: 42% Magic, 60% Luck, and 52% Resistance are all standouts, but 25% Strength and 30% Defense are disappointing. And since Claud can’t carry swords, Scathach won’t start with any new weapons.

Rating: C. This is another pairing that doesn’t make much sense. While Ayra and Claud start with a lot of love points, that’s almost certainly to make up for Claud’s late jointime. Even though they’re both infantry, Ayra will outstep the High Priest. Claud doesn’t give any useful skills to the kids, and while the improved Magic and Resistance can give them a niche, it’s probably not worth the cut to their Strength and Defense.

 

xiv. Summary

*: Chulainn

A: Lex, Dew

B: Naoise, Arden, Azelle, Jamke, Beowolf, Lewyn

C: Alec, Finn, Midir, Claud

Anyway, how do these ratings and analyses sound? Fair and reasonable? Totally out of line? Think I'm a pushover for dropping Arden down a tier? Let me know in the comments!

Edited by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
Moved Arden from A to B tier. Formatting.

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Personally Jamke has the skills (Continue and Charge being great for number of attacks), infantry movement, can get drops for Scathach from enemies (the bosses of chapter 3) and his growths align well enough that I could argue he's best in B if not low A. Naoise having swords and Critical is a better argument argument from him to be higher of the two though.

Arden for me is sufficiently hampered in growths and skill wise being a lesser Lex that I'd put him in B, but his being able to freely pass more weapons is a good point. Not enough of a one personally to leave him higher than Naoise or Jamke, but still.

Other than those I can't really make more quibbles. Ayra is a mother who's got a good amount of strong options for inheritance, so I don't feel as restricted on what I can pick that works for her. Gives more flexability and makes it arguable that there's no immediate best option for her imo.

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1 hour ago, Dayni said:

Personally Jamke has the skills (Continue and Charge being great for number of attacks), infantry movement, can get drops for Scathach from enemies (the bosses of chapter 3) and his growths align well enough that I could argue he's best in B if not low A. Naoise having swords and Critical is a better argument argument from him to be higher of the two though.

Arden for me is sufficiently hampered in growths and skill wise being a lesser Lex that I'd put him in B, but his being able to freely pass more weapons is a good point. Not enough of a one personally to leave him higher than Naoise or Jamke, but still.

Other than those I can't really make more quibbles. Ayra is a mother who's got a good amount of strong options for inheritance, so I don't feel as restricted on what I can pick that works for her. Gives more flexability and makes it arguable that there's no immediate best option for her imo.

Totally reasonable response. I originally considered A-tier for Naoise, but figured that Critical, Accost, and B-rank Swords weren't quite enough to overcome the movement difference. That said, he's probably the best among B-tier. Jamke, too, is certainly better (and easier) than choices like Azelle or Beowolf, but the better skills are balanced out by an inability to pass down swords (excepting, admittedly, those that come from enemy drops).

As for Arden, I'd agree that he's the weakest in A-tier. If he doesn't promote, I'd probably consider him a B-tier husband, but promoting bumps him up to equip (and pass down) A-rank swords. Still, Lex's Paragon is definitely better for Larcei (who is indifferent to what her father wields), while Scathach can still receive some valuable rings to then sell. I'd probably count Dew slightly better overall - Bargain lets the kids easily buy the Paragon ring before arena-ing, while Scathach can receive A-Swords this way.

Yeah, agreed that there are lots of great options for Ayra! Out of 13 eligible fathers, 7 (Naoise, Alec, Arden, Azelle, Dew, Chulainn, and Beowolf) can pass down at least B-rank Swords - compare to only 3 fathers (Arden, Midir, Jamke) who could pass Bows along to Lester. Likewise, the Sword Twins coming with Pursuit automatically makes it less of a necessity on potential husbands - Pursuit is going to be a big part of the picture next week, when it comes to Lachesis.

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15 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

 

As for Arden, I'd agree that he's the weakest in A-tier. If he doesn't promote, I'd probably consider him a B-tier husband, but promoting bumps him up to equip (and pass down) A-rank swords.

If promoting Arden is what pushes him over the edge, I would argue that this still places him in B tier, as promoting Arden is a pain to pull off

On 1/17/2022 at 2:57 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

 

(B): A matchup that provides something of value to at least one child, but may harm the other child or simply be difficult to set up.

and being difficult to set up is a defining characteristic of B-tier.

I will also note that the Skill priority of FE4 is Astra>Luna>Sol, only one can activate, which weakens the impact of adding Sol and Luna to them. Another thing I will note is that Swords have the most opportunities to be dropped by an enemy in generation 1, tied with Lances (and staff I guess) at 2.

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46 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

If promoting Arden is what pushes him over the edge, I would argue that this still places him in B tier, as promoting Arden is a pain to pull off

and being difficult to set up is a defining characteristic of B-tier.

I will also note that the Skill priority of FE4 is Astra>Luna>Sol, only one can activate, which weakens the impact of adding Sol and Luna to them. Another thing I will note is that Swords have the most opportunities to be dropped by an enemy in generation 1, tied with Lances (and staff I guess) at 2.

I see your point, to be sure. That said, these ratings assume that the player is going for a "ranked run" - ergo, trying to level all their units as much as possible. So even "hard to raise" units, like Arden or Azelle, are assumed to reach promotion. Even if that's not something the player would care about in a pure "efficiency" run.

As for Swords, when a non-Sword wielder gets one, they have two options - leave it in their inventory, or sell it and say goodbye. If they sell it, other units can use it, and begin to accrue kills on it, whereas if they leave it, it's just taking up space. So committing not to sell it means not only forsaking its use for all of generation 1, but also passing it along with 0 kills. It reduces the flexibility afforded to your team, and to your inheritance.

As for Astra>Luna>Sol, I'd argue that this priority makes getting Luna or Sol better for the Sword Twins, not worse. Suppose the order were instead Sol>Luna>Astra. Then there'd be a solid argument that "Dew is a bad father because he takes Astra activations away from the kids". As it stands, however, they're still no less likely to activate Astra, with Luna or Sol in their skillset. Rather, those skills function as "backups", only triggering in cases where Astra wouldn't have activated to begin with. It's a net gain, albeit a smaller one than if they didn't have Astra in the first place.

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On 1/24/2022 at 8:06 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Finn cannot wield Lances

aw sheoot man, Finn finna go in wid deez hands. "I gonna choke Chagall" -Finn

On 1/24/2022 at 8:06 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Genealogy has a reputation for its portrayal of incest, with fans fighting back and forth over whether its portrayal is a positive one, or a negative. In this particular case, however, I consider the concentration of holy blood to be a barely-legal case of wincest.

I was talking to a guy recently and he told me that, by this point in human development, everyone of western descent is probably descended from King David (PBUH).

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5 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

aw sheoot man, Finn finna go in wid deez hands. "I gonna choke Chagall" -Finn

Damn, good catch. I was most impressed when Finn got off his horse, grabbed it by the tail, and swung it around to club foes to death.

6 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I was talking to a guy recently and he told me that, by this point in human development, everyone of western descent is probably descended from King David (PBUH).

Wouldn't be the strangest thing. "Father Abraham had many sons", and all that.

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35 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Damn, good catch. I was most impressed when Finn got off his horse, grabbed it by the tail, and swung it around to club foes to death.

And thus, dismounting.

35 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Wouldn't be the strangest thing. "Father Abraham had many sons", and all that.

I think it has more to do with the fact that he lived 3,000 years ago.

Which, context. Imagine each generation reproduces every 20 years. That'd be about 150 generations ago.

If every generation produces 1.1632 children, 150 generations will get you about seven billion people, which is enough to account for the entire planet.

There is an old Arabian Jewish proverb that when you kill one man, it is as though you have killed all mankind. This is because all people are descended from one man, Adam, and I think this little thought experiment quite effectively illustrates how great of an impact one person possesses.

Edited by AnonymousSpeed

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1 minute ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I see your point, to be sure. That said, these ratings assume that the player is going for a "ranked run" - ergo, trying to level all their units as much as possible. So even "hard to raise" units, like Arden or Azelle, are assumed to reach promotion. Even if that's not something the player would care about in a pure "efficiency" run.

If you were going for a ranked run environment, then I would argue Lex is the best pairing for this one, as this is clearly the best pairing for Lex, and passing on Paragon makes reaching your experience rank quotas for 2nd gen much easier, as you have two extra units every chapter that can benefit from paragon during each chapter, on top of saving the money and the micromanagement effort/time needed to trade the paragon band around for the arena on those two (and that saved money can be used to compensate for Scathach not inheriting as many swords as he would with Holyn). Making the experience rank easier to reach is far more useful than anything Holyn gives these kids.

 

13 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

 

As for Astra>Luna>Sol, I'd argue that this priority makes getting Luna or Sol better for the Sword Twins, not worse. Suppose the order were instead Sol>Luna>Astra. Then there'd be a solid argument that "Dew is a bad father because he takes Astra activations away from the kids". As it stands, however, they're still no less likely to activate Astra, with Luna or Sol in their skillset. Rather, those skills function as "backups", only triggering in cases where Astra wouldn't have activated to begin with. It's a net gain, albeit a smaller one than if they didn't have Astra in the first place.

Indeed, I was mainly pointing out that adding Luna and Sol to one of those kids is only a minor benefit.

 

6 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

So committing not to sell it means not only forsaking its use for all of generation 1, but also passing it along with 0 kills. It reduces the flexibility afforded to your team, and to your inheritance.

...None of the dropped weapons are ones I would expect to reach 50 kills, so I don't see passing a weapon with 0 kills as that big of detriment. Also I disagree with the idea that it decreases your flexibility to your inheritance, that it instead increases the flexibility of inheritance, as it allows characters that would otherwise inherit no weapons an opportunity to inherit something. Gaining that greater flexibility in inheritance is the benefit of keeping it instead of selling it, and Swords (and Lances) are one of the weapon types that have that flexibility, unlike Bows, and Magic which have 0 drop options (technically Axes have one, but they aren't passed on at all, so moot point on that regard).

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21 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

If you were going for a ranked run environment, then I would argue Lex is the best pairing for this one, as this is clearly the best pairing for Lex, and passing on Paragon makes reaching your experience rank quotas for 2nd gen much easier, as you have two extra units every chapter that can benefit from paragon during each chapter, on top of saving the money and the micromanagement effort/time needed to trade the paragon band around for the arena on those two (and that saved money can be used to compensate for Scathach not inheriting as many swords as he would with Holyn). Making the experience rank easier to reach is far more useful than anything Holyn gives these kids.

Very fair points! Paragon is a very strong skill, and I don't mean to undersell it. But as such, it's also a highly in-demand one - the Sword Twins enjoy it, but so do any potential kids.

In terms of favoring Chulainn, it comes down partially to convenience. Lex is a strong combat unit with great mobility - the kind you generally want on the frontlines. So it can be hard keeping Ayra with him. They get a conversation together, so it's easier than most mounted pairings. But Chulainn gets the same conversation, plus identical mobility. No effort required to keep them together. As for stats, Lex grants higher Defense (cool for survivability), while the boosted Skill from Chulainn means more frequent activations of Astra (or, if that fails, Luna). And Chulainn can pass down Swords, but the point that Paragon coming innate to the kids means they won't have money problems is a valid one.

29 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

None of the dropped weapons are ones I would expect to reach 50 kills, so I don't see passing a weapon with 0 kills as that big of detriment. Also I disagree with the idea that it decreases your flexibility to your inheritance, that it instead increases the flexibility of inheritance, as it allows characters that would otherwise inherit no weapons an opportunity to inherit something. Gaining that greater flexibility in inheritance is the benefit of keeping it instead of selling it, and Swords (and Lances) are one of the weapon types that have that flexibility, unlike Bows, and Magic which have 0 drop options (technically Axes have one, but they aren't passed on at all, so moot point on that regard).

My point about "decreased flexibility" was two-fold: that keeping the weapon locked to someone who can't use it reduces your offensive toolkit in gen 1, and that natively Sword-using units can pick and choose whichever Swords they want to pass down. If I want a Scathach who starts out with a 50-kill Steel Sword and the Light Brand, that's an option with Arden or Chulainn, but not with Lex or Jamke. That's not to say there's never a case for fathers who can't wield the same weapon type as their son, but it is something that constrains the way you play.

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4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Damn, good catch. I was most impressed when Finn got off his horse, grabbed it by the tail, and swung it around to club foes to death.

See, I'd believe this if Finn was willing to hurt his horse.

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

As for stats, Lex grants higher Defense (cool for survivability), while the boosted Skill from Chulainn means more frequent activations of Astra (or, if that fails, Luna).

The point I'd make on that is that Chulainn will give higher proc rates sooner, but Lex will give higher defence generally, which should help them to survive combat more reliably. It's part of why I would probably say Lex over Dew, the lower bulk you'd expect from Dew will negatively impact their survival.

I do lean towards Lex in the end personally.

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2 hours ago, Dayni said:

The point I'd make on that is that Chulainn will give higher proc rates sooner, but Lex will give higher defence generally, which should help them to survive combat more reliably. It's part of why I would probably say Lex over Dew, the lower bulk you'd expect from Dew will negatively impact their survival.

I do lean towards Lex in the end personally.

That's a good point, too. Lex gives the kids the best defense, but Chulainn gives them the best HP growths. In light of the really low Defense caps faced by Myrmidon (20) and Swordmaster/Hero (22), I'm not certain which one they'd rather have. Chulainn also gives better Speed and Skill, but to Lex's credit, he passes down more Strength. Either of them are excellent for the kids' offensive prowess.

Regarding Dew, he gives them the worst HP, but the best possible Speed among physical fathers (tied with Midir), and Skill and Defense between what Chulainn and Lex offer. Sol can be considered to improve the kids' survivability, but it's not exactly reliable. I paired Dew with Ayra in my last playthrough, and honestly had a blast. There's something so liberating about being able to freely buy and sell weapons and rings. Plus it made them great marriage partners (I know it's FE4, but c'mon, not to each other), since they'd have a glut of gold. Bargain is one hell of a drug, especially on units who reliably clear the Arena.

Bottom-line, I think there's a case to be made for any one of Lex, Chulainn, and Dew as the best possible husband for Ayra.

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Arden feels notably worse than the other A-tier possibilities here. Lex's str/def and Paragon makes the sword twins extremely self-sufficient combat units, Dew... well, I haven't tried out Bargain myself but I definitely find myself nodding along and thinking that's cool. Arden just seems worse even before considering that Arden himself is a pain to level/promote (and a not insignificant pain to keep adjacent to Ayra), and I would definitely consider that a factor myself. Certainly it's a big enough factor to push him from A to B imo, if he's seen as near the border.

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3 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Arden feels notably worse than the other A-tier possibilities here. Lex's str/def and Paragon makes the sword twins extremely self-sufficient combat units, Dew... well, I haven't tried out Bargain myself but I definitely find myself nodding along and thinking that's cool. Arden just seems worse even before considering that Arden himself is a pain to level/promote (and a not insignificant pain to keep adjacent to Ayra), and I would definitely consider that a factor myself. Certainly it's a big enough factor to push him from A to B imo, if he's seen as near the border.

Looking back at what you and others have been saying, and what I said myself:

On 1/27/2022 at 4:18 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Bottom-line, I think there's a case to be made for any one of Lex, Chulainn, and Dew as the best possible husband for Ayra.

...I don't think there's much of a case for Arden to share a tier with Lex and Dew anymore. Perhaps I could move Naoise up to A-tier, but that wouldn't feel right, either - I don't think he's a full tier above Jamke. Reviewing my criteria:

On 1/17/2022 at 5:57 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

(*): The single-best matchup for the woman in question. This pairing will usually be easy to set up, will provide benefits to both children, and may even help out the parents as well.

(A): A very good matchup, usually offering something that the "best" pairing is missing, but has some flaw holding it back.

(B): A matchup that provides something of value to at least one child, but may harm the other child or simply be difficult to set up.

(C): A matchup that offers little-to-nothing of value to either child or parent, and is generally not worth pursuing.

I think B is most appropriate for Arden and Naoise alike. The kids are similar enough that I wouldn't say either is "harmed" by either pairing. But at the same time, I don't see either pairing offering "something that the best pairing is missing", like Lex's defense buff and Paragon, or Dew's Bargain. So I'm going to change how Arden is listed in my post.

The dark side of this, of course, is the risk of "B-tier glut". @Eltosian Kadath brought it up initially on the Edain post, but it looks like it could become a recurring phenomenon. Do I accept it as a natural consequence of the tiering rules I've set up? Or, do I make a conscious effort to prevent it, such as by splitting B into "B+" and "B-" tiers? I'm not really sure. For the time being, I'll stick with the "*, A, B, C" structure, but depending on feedback, I might end up splitting a tier down the road (in which case, I would adjust previous ratings to fit the new scheme).

On 1/27/2022 at 9:20 AM, AnonymousSpeed said:

There is an old Arabian Jewish proverb that when you kill one man, it is as though you have killed all mankind. This is because all people are descended from one man, Adam, and I think this little thought experiment quite effectively illustrates how great of an impact one person possesses.

An interesting, and thought-provoking, bit of wisdom.

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Chapter 3: Lachesis

Lachesis, also known as “Raquesis”, joins during the first phase of chapter 2, “Crisis in Agustria”. She starts out as a green Ally unit, guarding Castle Nordion with the help of three Paladins. When Sigurd speaks with her, she will join the Player’s army. Castle Nordion itself, however, will remain an Ally castle (meaning units cannot be Warped to it), unless it is captured by an Enemy unit, after which Sigurd can reconquer it, turning it to the Player.

Lachesis joins as a level 2 Princess. The Princess class previously appeared in Gaiden, as a promotion of Celica. Like in that game, the class can use Swords and healing magic; however, it is an unpromoted class, with no access to offensive magic. With minor Hezul Holy Blood, Lachesis is able to use A-rank Swords and C-rank Staves. She joins with the Charm skill, granting +10 Hit and Avoid to all allies within 3 spaces, aiding her support potential. As for inventory, she comes with the Miracle Sword (a powerful but inaccurate sword, usable only by women, that grants its user the Miracle skill), a Heal staff, and a hefty 10,000 Gold.

From level 20 onward, she can promote to the Master Knight class. This promotion is an exceptionally powerful one, as it gives a mount to the previously foot-locked Princess of Nordion. Not only that, but she also gets the Pursuit skill. And what’s more, her weapon ranks absolutely go off: as a Master Knight, she can use all non-legendary weapons, staves, and tomes (excepting Aura, Nosferatu, and Dark magic). Her stats, including bases, growths, Princess caps, promotion gains, and Master Knight caps are as follows:

Spoiler

 

HP: 26 + 0.60x / 80, + 0 / 80

Str: 6 + 0.50x / 20, + 7 / 27

Mag: 8 + 0.05x / 22, + 0 / 22

Skl: 9 + 0.10x / 20, + 7 / 27

Spd: 13 + 0.20x / 23, + 4 / 27

Lck: 5 + 0.40x / 30, + 0 / 30

Def: 7 + 0.20x / 20, + 7 / 27

Res: 9 + 0.10x / 22, + 0 / 22

Mov: 6, + 3

 

Unlike Ayra, Lachesis doesn’t fit clearly into any particular stereotype. It’s rare that you’ll get a midgame low-level healer, particularly an unmounted one, who is also able to fight in her own right. Her stats look contradictory as well – areas that start low, like Strength and Luck, actually have better growths than those that start high, like Speed and Resistance. Her growths absolutely do not carry her – up until her promotion, she’ll be a support unit whose combat is niche at best. That all changes upon promotion – a mount means she can keep up with the rest of the army, while Pursuit gives her competent combat. And that’s before considering her ability to wield nearly any tome or weapon! It takes a lot of Arena grinding with Miracle and staff-spamming to get her to promotion, but once she gets there, she’ll rank among your strongest units, both for support and for combat in her own right.

Lachesis has two children: a daughter named Nanna, and a son named Diarmuid. If she dies during the first generation, or is not paired with anyone, these characters will be replaced by Jeanne and Tristan, respectively.

Nanna joins at the very start of chapter 7, “Beyond the Desert”. She starts out alongside Finn and Leif at Leonster Castle, separate from the bulk of Seliph’s army, which starts at Rivough Castle in the northeast. While the trio is playable, Leonster itself is treated as an Ally castle, and units can only repair weapons there (i.e Arena, Pawn Shop, etc are unavailable). From the very beginning of the chapter, the trio is confronted by a column of troops (mostly Sword Armors) from Ulster Castle shortly to the south. Not only that, but the nearby villages are under attack by a host of Brigands. Clearly, these three have their work cut out for them. There is one potential out, however – if Nanna inherits both a Return staff and a Return Band, she can transport her allies, and then herself, back to Rivough Castle. This will almost certainly result in the capture of Leonster by extant forces from Ulster. That said, Seliph can then re-capture the castle (turning it to a Player castle) before seizing Ulster Castle.

Nanna joins as a level 3 Troubadour. In Genealogy, the Troubadour class is not only able to heal on the go, but can also fight with swords. With minor Hezul Holy Blood, Nanna is able to wield A-rank Swords and use C-rank Staves. She may join with additional Holy Blood, but with one exception, they will not affect her weapon ranks. In terms of items, Nanna comes with an Iron Sword, the Mend staff, and whatever items and gold she inherited from her mother. While Lachesis’ promotion drastically expands the kinds of weapons she can use, it doesn’t widen what she can pass along to her daughter. Nanna starts with the Charm skill, as well as whatever skills she may have inherited from her father. From level 20 onward, Nanna can promote to the Paladin class. This gives her no additional skills, but it does increase her stats, and gives her access to C-rank Lances. Her bases and growths will vary depending on who her father is, and how her parents’ own level-ups went. Here is an example of Nanna’s stats, assuming Alec as her father and roughly average bases:

Spoiler

 

HP: 27 + 0.95x / 80, + 0 / 80

Str: 6 + 0.65x / 18, + 6 / 24

Mag: 3 + 0.07x / 18, + 2 / 20

Skl: 7 + 0.30x / 21, + 3 / 24

Spd: 8 + 0.35x / 21, + 3 / 24

Lck: 7 + 0.55x / 30, + 0 / 30

Def: 4 + 0.35x / 18, + 6 / 24

Res: 4 + 0.12x / 18, + 2 / 20

Mov: 8, + 1

 

While her appearance may be reminiscent of her mother, Nanna’s performance is more reminiscent of Ethlyn’s. Even with just C-rank Staves, the ability to “heal on the go” is a powerful one. Not only that, but Return can be an excellent utility staff – especially when partnered with a Warp-user in the home castle. As for her combat, that’ll depend on the weapons and skills she inherits. Pursuit is really good for her, with Adept and Critical providing welcome, albeit lesser, benefits. Regardless, access to the Brave Sword and Miracle Sword can help her, especially in the Arena.

Diarmuid, also known as Delmud or Dermott, appears on turn 3 of chapter 6, “Heir of Light”. Seliph has just left Tirnanog Castle, with the Sword Twins and Lana in tow. It looks as though just the four of them are up against a litany of axe- and bow-users from Ganeishire Castle, under the command of Harold. That notion is soon dispelled, as Diarmuid arrives alongside Lester and Oifey. Together, they join Seliph on his first steps to meet his destiny.

Diarmuid arrives as a level 3 Free Knight. With minor Hezul Holy Blood, he is able to wield up to A-rank Swords. He may join with additional Holy Blood, but it will not affect his weapon ranks. He comes with an Iron Sword, as well as whatever Swords, assorted items, and gold that his father may have passed along to him. Diarmuid starts with the Charm skill, as well as whatever skills he may have received from his father. From level 20 onward, he can promote to the Ranger class, also known as Forrest Knight. This doesn’t expand his usable pool of weaponry, but it boosts his stats and gives him the Adept skill, if he didn’t have it already. His bases and growths will vary based on who his father is, and how his parents’ level-ups went. Here is an example of Diarmuid’s stats, assuming Alec as his father and roughly average bases:

Spoiler

 

HP: 29 + 1.10x / 80, + 0 / 80

Str: 9 + 0.70x / 22, + 1 / 23

Mag: 0 + 0.07x / 15, + 0 / 15

Skl: 8 + 0.45x / 21, + 9 / 30

Spd: 8 + 0.40x / 21, + 6 / 27

Lck: 7 + 0.50x / 30, + 0 / 30

Def: 7 + 0.40x / 21, + 2 / 23

Res: 0 + 0.10x / 15, + 3 / 18

Mov: 8, + 1

 

How Diarmuid plays will depend, in a big way, on who his father is. The most obvious comparison is with Beowolf, the only Free Knight you get in the first generation. Relative to that mercenary-minded knight, Diarmuid comes with a guaranteed advantage: minor Hezul holy blood, which not only leaves him confident in his Strength and HP growths, but also lets him use A-rank Swords right out of the gate. Charm also lets him provide support, and being mounted lets him do so on the front lines. For his own combat, however, the biggest thing he wants is the chance to attack twice. Will he be like Beowolf or Alec, who had Pursuit? Or will he perform more like Naoise, who could crit, but could only attack once per phase? It’s all in the skills, with extra Holy Blood providing its own secondary effects on growths.

Now, the time has come to ask: who is the best husband for Lachesis, and father for Nanna and Diarmuid? Like before, I’ll only point out stats that vary significantly from the control father (selected arbitrarily to be Alec). Let’s begin at the start.

i. Naoise

Spoiler

 

Naoise and Lachesis begin with 50 love points together, and gain 2 points per turn. If married, they have a conversation together after seizing Phinora Castle in chapter 5, but this provides no reward. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Naoise adjacent to Lachesis, who does not receive a mount until promotion.

With Naoise as her father, Nanna will inherit the Accost and Critical skills. Critical can be effective to secure surprise kills, while Accost can enable extra attacks, both by and against her. As for her stats, they will not vary significantly from the control. She will inherit up to A-rank Swords, and C-rank Staves, from her mother.

Diarmuid will also receive the Accost and Critical skills. These are even more significant on him – he lacks healing utility, so combat is pretty much all he does (outside of Charm support). As far as stats go, he’ll have slightly higher HP, Strength, and Defense than the control, but at a slight cost to Skill, Speed, and Luck. He will inherit swords from his father; while Diarmuid can use up to A-rank Swords, Naoise can only equip up to B-rank Swords.

Rating: B. With their different movement before promotion, this pairing may be tough to set up. And it’s missing the Pursuit skill that both kids crave. That said, Critical and Accost can help them do more damage than you’d otherwise expect. Plus, Diarmuid appreciates a father who can pass down Swords, even if it’s only up to B-rank. Not exactly ideal, but not quite bottom-tier, either.

 

ii. Alec

Spoiler

 

Alec and Lachesis begin with 50 love points together, and gain 2 points per turn. They have no notable conversations together. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Alec adjacent to Lachesis, who does not receive a mount until promotion.

Nanna receives the Pursuit and Nihil skills if Alec is her father. Pursuit is great for her combat, while Nihil’s use is rather limited, but it can occasionally come in clutch. Her stats will include high Strength and Luck, but most of her other stats will remain middling, including low Magic. Her inheritance, of course, depends principally on her mother.

Diarmuid, similarly, gets the Pursuit and Nihil from Alec. Pursuit is absolutely vital, guaranteeing him a follow-up hit against slower enemies (which, as a Sword user with solid Speed, will be most enemies). Nihil is rather niche, but it can make him more comfortable against named enemies with combat skills like Critical and Wrath. His stats will be fairly well-rounded, outside of strong HP and Strength, as well as meager Magic and Resistance. While he can use up to A-rank Swords, his father can only equip those up to B-rank.

Rating: A. This is an excellent pairing for both kids. Pursuit is a crucial skill for their combat potential, while Nihil can save them in a pinch. Diarmuid can inherit up to B-rank Swords (or a dropped Silver Blade) from Alec, although he will appreciate receiving a Ring as well. It’s not super easy to set up, given Alec and Lachesis’ different movement before she promotes, but they have long enough together that it’s not hard to find the turns to set them up.

 

iii. Arden

Spoiler

 

Arden and Lachesis begin with 50 love points together, and gain 2 points per turn. They have no notable conversations together. While Arden is an infantry unit, he has 1 less move than Lachesis at base, and falls further behind when she promotes.

If Arden is her father, Nanna will get the Vantage skill, letting her attack first on enemy-phase when below half-health. Not bad, but without a Brave Sword or a weapon with Critical, she’s not likely to get the kill. Her stats differ quite a bit from the control here – higher HP and Strength, but lower Skill and Luck. She inherits usable weapons and items from her mother.

Diarmuid receives the Vantage skill as well. This can occasionally help him in the Arena, or on enemy phase, but doesn’t make a huge difference to his combat. In terms of stats, this is something of a “Min-Max” build: Diarmuid gets insane growths in HP (130%) and Strength (90%), plus solid Defense (50%), but his Skill growth (15%) will be absolutely miserable, compromising his hit rates. While unpromoted Arden can only use B-rank Swords, he can equip (and pass down) A-rank Swords after hitting General.

Rating: C. Lachesis x Arden isn’t especially hard to set up, especially in chapter 2, where you’re likely to keep Lachesis far from the front lines if you want to earn the Knight Ring. But it gives very little of benefit to the kids. Sure, Diarmuid gets Swords, but he can’t hit more than once per combat phase until promotion. And for Nanna, Adept never comes. And while the Strength boost is welcome, it comes at the cost of kneecapping their Skill (and thereby, their Hit rates). This pairing is quite disappointing.

 

iv. Azelle

Spoiler

 

Azelle and Lachesis begin with 50 love points together, and gain 2 points per turn. They have no notable conversations together. While Azelle is an infantry unit, he has 1 less move than Lachesis at base; however, they achieve the same mounted movement as each other upon promotion.

With Azelle as her father, Nanna receives the valuable Pursuit skill. She also inherits minor Fjalar Holy Blood. This doesn’t affect her weapon ranks, but it certainly impacts her growths. She will do much better in Magic (40%), and slightly better in HP (105%) and Speed (45%) than the control. However, it comes at a slight cost to her Strength (55%) and Skill (20%). Her Strength will still let her do solid damage with physical swords, while the Magic boost not only positively impacts her Healing potential, but also lets her do mor damage with magical weapons, like the Earth Sword.

Diarmuid finds himself affected to an even greater degree. Pursuit is great for his combat, to be sure. Looking at his stats, however, things start getting… weird. His Luck (40%), Defense (30%), and particularly Strength (50%) start to under-perform here. But on the flip side, his Magic (42%) and Speed (60%) are significantly bolstered, thanks to minor Fjalar Holy Blood. So while he’ll do worse in the Arena, when it comes to the field of battle, he can be surprisingly effective with magical swords. A promoted Azelle can pass down up to B-rank Swords, crucially including weapons like the Wind Sword and Light Brand – put one of those in Diarmuid’s hands, and he can function as a “Junior Mage Knight”, doing solid damage against low-Res foes from a safe range.

Rating: A. Lachesis x Azelle isn’t too hard to get together. Again, it’s common to keep Lachesis away from the action in chapter 2. And their promotions tend to come similarly late. This pairing gives Nanna more effective healing than usual, and while the effect may be small, it can add up. Both kids appreciate the all-important Pursuit skill, as well as the boost to speed and increased damage from magical swords. Still, the reduced physical damage, and lack of other combat skills, may give the player pause. All-in-all, it's a practical pairing that lets the kids fulfill an unusual, but compelling, niche.

 

v. Lex

Spoiler

 

Lex and Lachesis begin with 50 love points together, and gain 2 points per turn. They have no notable conversations together. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Lex adjacent to Lachesis, who does not receive a mount until promotion.

If Nanna is a daughter of House Dozel, she will inherit the Paragon and Vantage skills. Vantage can help in the Arena, or occasionally in the field of battle. Paragon, though, feels great. Double experience from every combat. Double experience every time she heals. Level-ups coming twice as frequently as usual. All awesome. With minor Neir Holy Blood, Nanna will have better HP (115%) and Defense (60%) than usual, but her Skill (20%) will suffer. A sooner promotion means sooner access to the Slim Lance or Javelin, but lacking any way to double is a real bummer.

Like his sister, Diarmuid gains the Paragon and Vantage skills. Again, Vantage’s utility is somewhat limited, but Paragon is an amazing skill. More experience means sooner promotion, and thereby, sooner access to the Adept skill. And never having to buy the Paragon band means fixing his combat via the Pursuit band is reasonably achievable. As stats go, he’ll find his HP (130%), Strength (80%), and Defense (60%) particularly bolstered. However, his Skill (25%), Speed (30%), and Luck (40%) may disappoint. Lex cannot wield swords, which may make inheritance tricky, although he can pass down dropped swords.

Rating: B. This pairing often requires the player to either push Lachesis to the frontlines, or else draw Lex back from them. That said, Paragon is an excellent reward for doing so. All kids appreciate doubled experience, including Nanna and Diarmuid. But with no ability to hit more than once (outside of the Pursuit Band, or Adept at Diarmuid’s promotion), these two will have a persistent combat problem. The Defense buff may be nice, but by and large, I can’t recommend doing Lachesis x Lex.

 

vi. Finn

Spoiler

 

Finn and Lachesis begin with 50 love points together, and gain 2 points per turn. They have no notable conversations together. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Finn adjacent to Lachesis, which is especially important in light of Finn’s departure after chapter 3.

Finn is a rather popular father for Nanna, particularly in light of their pseudo-familial relationship in the second generation and Thracia 776. He will pass along the Pursuit and Miracle skills to her. Pursuit is always a boon to her combat, while Miracle can be helpful against especially tough Arena foes. As for her stats, her Luck (65%) does better, but no other stat differs from the control. One more consideration, however: in chapter 7, after Darna is seized, Finn can speak with Nanna, granting her 5 speed in an instant. Not only does this let her double more enemies, but it boosts her avoid as well.

As Nanna’s brother, Diarmuid will also inherit the Pursuit and Miracle skills. The effectiveness of Pursuit has been beaten to death by this point, but how about Miracle? Well, Diarmuid can’t wield the Miracle Sword (outside of a particular exploit), so this skill can help him deal with Arena opponents who may otherwise sit above his pay grade. As growths go, his Luck goes up to 70%, but nothing else changes relative to the control. While a paired Finn loses his Lances, he cannot pass them along to his son – however, he can pass a select few dropped enemy Swords.

Rating: B. Alright, kids, it’s time for some math. Finn and Lachesis have less than two full maps together. Suppose you’re aiming to complete each chapter in 40 turns (reasonable, I think, in a ranked run). In that case, they’ll gain 80 points per map, or 160 between the two, for 210 points total. This leaves them 290 points short of marriage. Dividing by 5, we find that this demands 58 turns next to each other. That’s right – they’ll have to spend almost 3 out of every 4 turns adjacent. This is a big ask, especially when Brave Lance Finn is one of your best answers to Waltz’s Free Knights and Eldigan’s Cross Knights. Now, if you pair these two up, the kids will appreciate it – Pursuit and Miracle are great, their growths will be respectable, and Nanna’s speed boost is cool. Still, it seriously constrains how you play Finn in chapters 2 and 3, while also seeing him toss out his Lances before the second generation. It’s not a bad pairing, strictly speaking, but it’s high-effort enough that I have a hard time recommending it.

 

vii. Midir

Spoiler

 

Midir and Lachesis begin with 50 love points together, and gain 2 points per turn. They have no notable conversations together. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Midir adjacent to Lachesis, who does not receive a mount until promotion.

From this pairing, Nanna gets the Pursuit and Accost skills. Pursuit will always be a boon to her combat. Accost can let her finish off foes she doesn’t kill in one round, but on the flip side, it can leave her more vulnerable to enemy chip. In terms of growths, her Luck (45%) will be on the lower side, but no other stat will differ much from the control.

Diarmuid also appreciates the Pursuit skill, with Accost remaining a double-edged sword. As stats go, his Speed (50%) does better, while his Skill (35%) and Luck (30%) do worse than usual. Midir cannot pass Diarmuid any of his bows, but like Lex or Finn, he can pass down some enemy Sword drops.

Rating: B. Midir x Lachesis is somewhat reminiscent of Finn x Lachesis – both pass down Pursuit and another skill, but not any weapons, with largely similar stats. However, Miracle is generally better than Accost, and Finn gives the kids much more Luck. Plus, it’s missing the Finn-Nanna post-skip conversation. So, why would it be the same tier? Simply because it’s less inconvenient to set up. These two get to spend chapters 4 and 5 together, and by the latter, they’ll finally reach the same mobility. It’s not particularly easy to set up beforehand, and is certainly worse than the “Pursuit-plus-Swords” pairings, but any pairing that passes down Pursuit is worth something.

 

viii. Dew

Spoiler

 

Dew and Lachesis begin with 50 love points together, and gain 2 points per turn. In chapter 2, Dew can talk to Lachesis after she is recruited. This will grant her the useful Thief Sword, and give them 50 additional love points together. If they are married, they will have a conversation after seizing Phinora Castle in chapter 5, but this provides no reward. Dew has equal movement to an unpromoted Lachesis, but does not gain as much as she does upon promotion.

What does the blonde thief grant to her blonde daughter? If Dew is her father, Nanna will receive a single skill: Bargain. This may seem like a major disappointment, as it doesn’t directly benefit her combat at all. But Bargain dramatically opens up her options. Now, Nanna can freely sell her Staves before going into the Arena, converting that money into valuable weapons and rings, then making the reverse conversion afterward. Buying a Brave Sword at-cost, and repairing Staves for half-price, is always cool. Growths-wise, the only significant difference from the control is lower HP (85%).

Diarmuid similarly benefits from Bargain. If he doesn’t directly inherit the Pursuit Band, he’ll have something of a slow start. But once he hits 20k gold, he can freely buy either the Pursuit Band or Paragon Band. At 40K, he can buy both before Arena-ing. At a certain point, he’ll start overflowing with cash, making him an excellent sugar daddy… I mean, husband, for any eligible bachelorette. Of course, there’s only one of each of these critical bands, and if you want them both on Leif, then they might come into conflict. As stats go, his Strength, Speed, Luck, and Defense all exceed the control – but at a sizable cost to HP. And while unpromoted Dew only gets C-rank Swords, he can wield A-rank upon promotion, which Diarmuid can use either in combat or as a nest egg.

Rating: A. I’ve wrestled with this one in my head, and I’m still not sure. On the one hand, rating a non-Pursuit pairing this highly seems like a kind of heresy. But the convenience cannot be overstated. Assuming you go for their chapter 2 conversation together (which everyone should, since the Thief Sword can carry the right unit from rags to riches), they’re already at 100 love points. Assuming similar play to that described previously (re: Finn), they’ll only need 48 turns adjacent to each other to get together by the end of chapter 3 – much more feasible, especially in light of their identical mobility. Plus, the sooner they get together, they sooner they can start a “gold volley” – Lachesis gives her gold to Dew, then Dew gives it back to her for a clean 10 EXP. Doesn’t make a big difference, but it can help on turns that they have nothing else going on. As for the kids, it’s basically a question of how much they inherit, and how they manage to exploit the Bargain skill with it. They can still clean up in the Arena, but having Pursuit on only one out of Diarmuid, Nanna, and Leif at a time is, as the kids say, a real bummer.

 

ix. Jamke

Spoiler

 

Jamke and Lachesis begin with 50 love points together, and gain 2 points per turn. They have no notable conversations together. Jamke can match an unpromoted Lachesis step-for-step, but unlike her, he maintains the same mobility after promotion.

As a princess of Verdane, Nanna will get the Accost and Adept skills. Adept is a less reliable Pursuit, and I’ve spoken my peace (piece?) on Accost by this point. As for her growths, she’ll have better HP and Strength than the control, but a 15% Skill growth is… yikes.

What does Diarmuid get out of this pairing? In theory, Adept is redundant, since he gets it upon promotion. But promotion is a long ways away, and getting it early is better than having to wait for it. Accost is Accost. His HP and Strength do much better than the control here, with a minor buff in Luck, but he shares a miserable 15% Skill with his sister. At least his promotion will salvage it for him. Oh, and Jamke doesn’t wield Swords, so he can only pass down those that come from enemy drops.

Rating: C. This pairing has convenience, and gives the kids solid Strength and physical bulk. Adept can be nice, but you can’t rely on it like you can Pursuit. And… that’s about it. Diarmuid doesn’t get weapons, and the kids don’t get any of the skills they really want. I certainly wouldn’t recommend Jamke x Lachesis.

 

x. Chulainn

Spoiler

 

Chulainn and Lachesis begin with 50 love points together, and gain 2 points per turn. They have no notable conversations together. Chulainn can match an unpromoted Lachesis step-for-step, but unlike her, he maintains the same mobility after promotion.

As a mounted unit, Nanna won’t be able to inherit Luna from Chulainn. Alas, the dream of a defense-piercing Troubadour died before it could even be born. With no Pursuit, Adept, or even Accost, she’s essentially limited to one attack per phase of combat. She does get minor Od Holy Blood, impacting her stats, if not her Sword rank. Her HP (125%) and Skill (65%) swell impressively, while all other stats remain close to the control.

Like his sister, Diarmuid receives no new skills if Chulainn is his father. It’s a shame, but I can appreciate the balancing effect of keeping the sword skills locked to infantry. He does receive minor Od Holy Blood, but since he’s already at A Swords, this doesn’t impact his ranks. It does boost his growths – HP becomes an absurd 150%, while Skill is a very solid 85%. Aside from these two standouts, his Luck (40%) is a tad lower than the control. Chulainn can pass A-rank Swords down to his son, so that’s cool.

Rating: C. Like Jamke x Lachesis, I won’t deny that this pairing is a fairly convenient one. But they share a fatal flaw – not passing down Pursuit. Jamke passed down a couple skills, while Chulainn at least had the decency to give his Swords. In that light, I’d say Jamke is better for Nanna, while Chulainn is preferable for Diarmuid. But neither is especially good for either kid. When all is said and done, this isn’t a good pairing.

 

xi. Beowolf

Spoiler

 

Beowolf and Lachesis begin with 50 love points together, and gain 2 points per turn. They have a conversation together in chapter 2, after seizing Anphony Castle. This will award Lachesis with +2 Strength, +2 Skill, and +1 Defense, while also granting the pair 100 love points together. If married, they can also converse after seizing Phinora Castle in chapter 5, but this grants no reward. As a mounted unit, it may be difficult to keep Beowolf adjacent to Lachesis, who does not get a mount until promotion.

With Beowolf as her father, Nanna gets the Pursuit and Accost skills. She’ll be guaranteed a second hit against any foe she outspeeds, and Accost can extend the combat even further, for better or worse. Her stats will not differ significantly from the control.

Diarmuid gets the same skills as his sister, letting him function as something of a “Beowolf 2.0”. He combines the combat skills of his father with instant A-rank Swords and the supportive effect of Charm. Relative to the control, his HP and Strength will be a bit higher, while his Luck will run somewhat lower. He can inherit Swords from his father, who, if promoted, can equip up to A-rank.

Rating: *. Not much to say here: it’s just a good pairing for everyone involved. The Beowolf x Lachesis conversation gives her a significant stat boost, which can help her performance in the Arena (and, occasionally, on the field of battle), as well as the equivalent of 20 turns adjacent to each other. So even in light of their differing movement, it’s not hard to set up. It gives Diarmuid everything he could want: the chance to double, good physical-unit growths, and any Swords his father may have passed along. His sister appreciates the skills as well, broadly functioning as a better Ethlyn.

 

xii. Lewyn

Spoiler

 

Lewyn and Lachesis begin with 50 love points together, and gain 2 points per turn. They have no notable conversations together. Lewyn can match an unpromoted Lachesis step-for-step, but unlike her, he maintains the same mobility after promotion.

With Lewyn as her father, Nanna receives the Adept and Critical skills, allowing her to do more damage that you might expect. She also inherits minor Sety Holy Blood, despite not having access to offensive magic. This increases her HP (105%), Magic (20%), and Speed (65%) growths, but diminishes her Strength (55%) somewhat. The magic boost, while subtle, can make her more effective with staves, too.

What does Diarmuid get out of being a prince of Silesse? Like his sister, he gets Adept and Critical – not exactly skills you can rely on, but ones that can change the course of battle in an instant. Not only that, but as a scion of Lewyn, he gets Major Sety Holy Blood. This raises his HP growth to 130%, and grants him an absurd 100% growth rate – that’s right, he’s RNG-proof. His Magic growth is bumped up to a decent 32%, too. However, his Strength, Luck, and Defense are all worse relative to the control. And while his father cannot equip Swords to pass down, he does pass along a Forseti tome… that Diarmuid can never use.

Rating: B. Like Jamke or Chulainn, this is another convenient pairing that doesn’t seem to give the kids very much of worth. No Pursuit, no Swords on Diarmuid, and worse Strength than usual. So, what gives? Ultimately, it’s just the innate traits of Lewyn at work – boosted Speed growth gives the kids better Avoid, and synergizes decently well with Adept. Add Critical into the mix, and the kids have a chance to do more damage, whether with physical or magical Swords. It’s hardly an ideal pairing for either parent, but it’s not too hard to set up, and the kids will perform reasonably (if not reliably) well.

 

xiii. Claud

Spoiler

 

Claud and Lachesis begin with 50 love points together, and gain 3 points per turn. They have no notable conversations together. Claud has 1 less move than Lachesis, despite joining as a promoted unit, and may fall farther behind when she promotes and gains a mount.

Nanna receives no skills from this pairing, but she does inherit minor Bragi Holy Blood. This is unique, as it’s the only Holy Blood type that will affect her weapon ranks. And technically, it doesn’t affect her “weapon” ranks – rather, it boosts her to B-rank Staves. While Lachesis only uses C-rank Staves, she goes up to A-rank upon promotion, thus letting her pass B-rank Staves down to Nanna. These include options like Warp, Physic, or the status staves. As growths go, her Magic (25%), Luck (65%) and Resistance (35%) do better than usual, while her Strength (55%) and Skill (20%) underperform somewhat.

Diarmuid, likewise, gets no skills from this pairing. In his case, however, he’ll get Major Bragi Holy Blood, impacting his growths even further. His Magic (42%), Luck (70%), and especially Resistance (55%) will grow faster than usual, while his Strength (50%), Skill (25%), and Defense (30%) will grow more slowly. Claud passes down (unusable) Valkyrie Staff, but cannot deliver any swords to Diarmuid. Still, the Magic boost can help his damage with magical swords, while the Resistance boost makes him resilient against siege tomes and status staves.

Rating: B. Much like Claud x Edain, this is another pairing that improves the daughter at the expense of the son. In this case, however, the “improvement” is more questionable than usual. No skills that let them double is brutal to both kids’ combat potential, while the reduced Strength gives them a harder time in the Arena. Still, being able to use B-rank Staves is an interesting niche, at the very least. If you want a mounted Warp or Restore user, this pairing is your earliest opportunity in the second generation for that. And the boosted Resistance can help the kids navigate the last couple chapters, where Fenrir and Sleep Staves show up in abundance.

 

xiv. Summary

So, how do the fathers stack up? Here’s where I’ve ranked every potential partner for Lachesis:

*: Beowolf

A: Alec, Azelle, Dew

B: Naoise, Lex, Finn, Midir, Lewyn, Claud

C: Arden, Jamke, Chulainn

Whew, that’s a lot of writing! Anyway, agree? Disagree? Am I chronically overrating Dew? Let me know in the comments!

Edited by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
Formatting.

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Lachesis/Claud sounds like an outright meme and is one of those times I wish holy blood would unlock that weapon type to their children so they can use it, or at least switch the * rank to the child who can (Forseti!Lana Please). Yeah, working with non-pursuit pairings does complicate matters though and it's why for me I'd be pushing Pursuit pairings with her as despite Nanna having staves both can be combatants on the front line and it's that big a deal of a skill.

Funny enough, Lewyn!Diarmuid ends up with the same skills as Tristan.

13 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Eldigan’s Cross Knights

At least with those you could see Lachesis and Finn being beside each other, with her trying to talk to her brother.

But yeah it takes up a bunch of time to pair them and jealousy might be useable, but that requires more female units and is thus more complication for a reward that's alright I guess.

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19 minutes ago, Dayni said:

At least with those you could see Lachesis and Finn being beside each other, with her trying to talk to her brother.

But yeah it takes up a bunch of time to pair them and jealousy might be useable, but that requires more female units and is thus more complication for a reward that's alright I guess.

That's a true point, I'd forgotten about the Lachesis-Eldigan conversation. Incidentally, I had no idea it existed in my first playthrough, and wound up killing Eldigan myself, losing Erinys in the process.

Yeah jealousy could make it go quicker, but I don't understand the mechanic well enough to know precisely how to pull it off. In any case, it's still a fairly high-effort pairing. The reward is good, but IMO not significantly better than, say, Midir.

23 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Lachesis/Claud sounds like an outright meme and is one of those times I wish holy blood would unlock that weapon type to their children so they can use it, or at least switch the * rank to the child who can (Forseti!Lana Please). Yeah, working with non-pursuit pairings does complicate matters though and it's why for me I'd be pushing Pursuit pairings with her as despite Nanna having staves both can be combatants on the front line and it's that big a deal of a skill.

One recommendation I remember reading is for certain pairings to unlock new promotions. For instance, if Lewyn is Diarmuid's father, then Diarmuid would promote to Mage Knight instead of Ranger. Or if Claud is Arthur's father, then Arthur would promote to Sage rather than Mage Knight. It's already established that one class can have different promotions (i.e. Myrmidons going either Hero or Swordmaster), so this would fit in with the established mechanics.

I don't see Claud!Nanna as especially good, but getting B-rank Staves is at least interesting. She'll have more potential than usual as a support unit, but at a cost to her combat. This will come up when looking at Taillte's and Erinys' pairings, too.

Missing Pursuit is, indeed, a big deal for some of these pairings. I don't want to write them off completely, but it is something big to work around. Especially when it comes to picking between Pursuit and other powerful skills, like Paragon and Bargain (whereas, these skills could coexist on Ayra's kids).

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