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Shanty Pete's 1st Mate

Matrimonial Mondays, Week 9: Summary

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Continuing the substitutes discussion from last week...

iv. Laylea and Charlot

Spoiler

 

Laylea first appears in chapter 7, “Beyond the Desert”. She is an orphan who took up dancing to make money to survive. She eventually travels to Darna, where she meets Ares, who is working as a Mercenary. They become close, with Ares defending her against the advances of Count Bramsel. Once Ares leaves to fight Seliph and company, however, Bramsel imprisons Laylea. This leads Ares to turn against his boss, Javarro, teaming up with Seliph to defeat Bramsel. After Seliph seizes Castle Darna, Ares can visit it, thereby recruiting Laylea. From here, Laylea dances her way across the continent, aiding Lord Seliph in his liberation of Thracia and Grannvale at large. She is the substitute unit of Lene, in case Silvia died, or otherwise ended the first generation without a husband.

Laylea joins as a level 3 Dancer. She comes with 3000 Gold, but no weapons or items. She has no Holy Blood, and can use only C-rank Swords. In addition to her class-based Dance skill, she comes with the Charm skill. This grants 10 extra points of Hit and Avoid to all allies within 3 tiles. Outside of Nanna and Diarmuid, she is the only playable unit to feature this skill in the second generation. As a Dancer, Laylea will not be able to promote at any level. Her stats, including bases, growths, and Dancer caps, are as follows:

HP: 24 + 0.50x / 80

Str: 4 + 0.50x / 18

Mag: 0 + 0.10x / 15

Skl: 1 + 0.20x / 16

Spd: 13 + 0.40x / 22

Lck: 4 + 0.30x / 30

Def: 1 + 0.20x / 16

Res: 4 + 0.20x / 18

Mov: 6

For the most part, Laylea’s events are analogous to those available to Lene. Both Dancers can speak to their younger brother in Chapter 9, for instance, thereby granting him +1 Luck. However, there is one “secret event” available to Laylea. By visiting a certain village in chapter 7, south of Leonster Castle, she gets the chance to meet Anna. This conversation rewards her with the Barrier Blade, an otherwise-unobtainable C-rank Sword that grants its wielder +7 Resistance. This can come in handy when fighting enemy Mages, or for dealing with enemy status staves.

How do stats compare between Laylea and Lene? Their bases are broadly comparable: Laylea will have less HP and Luck, but more Speed, with most other stats generally equivalent. Admittedly, Lene can lean higher in Magic and Resistance with a magical father. Looking at growths, Laylea deals with the issue common to most substitute units: no holy blood. Her growths in HP, Magic, Luck, Defense, and Resistance will be no higher than those in any variant of Lene. Laylea’s Skill growth will be lower than Lene’s in all but a handful of cases, while her Speed growth will beat that of Lene, except when Lene is fathered by Lewyn. Laylea’s standout growth comes in Strength, where she beats any and all variants of Lene. Neither of the Dancers will have any conversations or events that boost their own stats.

Of course, stats are only one area of consideration – we also need to look at skills and inheritance. While Laylea offers no combat skills, Lene brings Adept and Miracle to the table. Miracle, in particular, is useful for her Arena performance – with the right setup, she can trivialize her encounters. Beyond this, Lene can receive a variety of skills from her father. Pursuit, Critical, and Luna will all bolster her combat, while Paragon and Bargain provide added utility. No such skills are available to Laylea. However, Laylea has access to one skill that Lene can never get – Charm. This provides some bonus utility for her allies, particularly against bosses and other threatening foes. Laylea can also replicate the effect of Miracle by equipping the Miracle Sword, but it’s a rather expensive weapon for grinding in the Arena. Looking at inheritance, Lene will be able to inherit weapons like the Shield Sword, or items like the Knight Band or Skill Ring. She can use these to her own end, or else sell them for profit. Notably, Lene can fight in the Arena right away, whereas Laylea will have to buy a weapon first. Laylea has just enough money to afford a Slim Sword before visiting any villages – unless the Miracle Sword has been mostly depleted, she won’t be able to afford it for the Arena. Of course, she should visit the Barrier Blade village, in order to get another source of money. In sum, there are a few solid advantages that Laylea comes with – but the cost that they come with is considerable in its own right.

Charlot, otherwise known as “Sharlow”, first appears in Chapter 9, “For Whose Sake”. He is the younger brother of Laylea, and the adoptive son of the renowned Thracian general, Hannibal. When Seliph’s Liberation Army invades the Kingdom of Thracia, Charlot is taken captive by King Travant to ensure General Hannibal’s compliance. He is held in Luthecia Castle, under the guard of General Distler. If Seliph defeats Distler and seizes Luthecia Castle without killing Hannibal, then Charlot will be recruited. From there, he can speak with his adoptive father to recruit him. From there, Charlot assists Lord Seliph to defeat Thracia’s forces, and eventually to save the continent from the Grannvalean Empire. He is the substitute unit of Coirpre, in case Silvia died, or otherwise ended the first generation unpaired.

Charlot joins as a level 1 Priest. He comes with the Physic Staff and 5000 Gold. He has no holy Blood, and can use up to B-rank Staves. He also joins with the Paragon skill, helping him make up for his low level and late join time. From level 20 onward, he can promote to the High Priest class. This boosts his stats, lets him use A-rank Staves, and also gives him access to C-rank Fire, Thunder, and Wind magic. However, it does not grant him any additional skills or movement. Charlot’s stats, including bases, growths, Priest caps, promotion bonuses, and High Priest caps, are as follows:

HP: 24 + 0.70x / 80, + 0 / 80

Str: 0 + 0.10x / 15, + 0 / 15

Mag: 11 + 0.50x / 22, + 5 / 27

Skl: 8 + 0.20x / 21, + 3 / 24

Spd: 9 + 0.20x / 21, + 2 / 23

Lck: 3 + 0.30x / 30, + 0 / 30

Def: 3 + 0.10x / 16, + 2 / 18

Res: 9 + 0.30x / 22, + 1 / 23

Mov: 5, + 0

Most of Charlot’s events and conversations are analogous to those available to Coirpre. For instance, either of them can speak with Altena in chapter 10, awarding her with +5 Resistance. However, there is one secret event exclusive to Charlot. In chapter 9, after Grutia Castle has been seized, have him wait next to Hannibal. This initiates a conversation between the two of them, in which Charlot receives the Berserk Staff. He can use this to inflict Berserk status on a foe with low Resistance (and simultaneously gain a full level), or he can sell it for a clean 15K Gold. This staff is unavailable to the player outside of this event.

When it comes to stats, how do Charlot and Coirpre compare? Generally speaking, Charlot will have a lower base in HP, Strength, and Luck, while doing slightly better than most variants of Coirpre in Magic, Skill, Speed, Defense, and Resistance. As for growths, Charlot is behind all variants of Coirpre in terms of HP, Strength, Speed, Defense, and Resistance. His Skill and Luck growths are behind most Coirpre variants, too. On the other hand, Charlot’s Magic growth is excellent, only beaten by a Coirpre fathered by Azelle. Both Coirpre and Charlot have similar stat-boosting events, getting +3 HP from Patty or Daisy in Chapter 9, and +1 Luck from their respective sister (also in Chapter 9).

Now, how do these staff-users compare in terms of skills and inheritance? Well, Coirpre always has the Adept and Miracle skills. Adept is useless before promotion, although afterwards, it can help him somewhat in the Arena. The Miracle skill can save him on occasion in the field, while also improving his Arena performance after promotion. Coirpre will also be able to inherit skills from his father. Pursuit from Alec or Azelle further bolsters his Arena performance, while Bargain from Dew gives him an easier time buying (and repairing) staves. Charlot, on the other hand, only has the Paragon skill. This is one of the best skills he could ask for – whereas Coirpre gains 35 EXP from each use of Physic, for Charlot, this jumps to a clean 70 EXP. Similarly, the Heal Staff (which Charlot can just afford with his starting gold) grants him 30 EXP per use – between the two of them, he’ll have enough charges to hit promotion and be able to start Arena-ing. It’s worth noting that, even with Paragon, he’ll have a cap of 100 EXP for every staff use; thus, while Warp normally awards 60 EXP, Charlot gets 100 (not 120) from it. Coirpre can have the Paragon skill as well, but only if Lex is his father. This leaves him with a lower Magic growth, and of course blocks Lex from passing Paragon on to any more combat-oriented kids.

As for inheritance, Coirpre is able to inherit items from his father. Lewyn can pass down B-rank Staves, while Claud can additionally pass down Fortify and the Valkyrie Staff. Other fathers cannot pass down any usable staves, although they can pass down valuable Rings or Bands. Coirpre may appreciate a Magic Ring to increase his healing, or a Return Ring to let him return to Castle Meath right after recruitment. He can also sell them, for more funding to buy or repair Staves. Charlot doesn’t come with any such inheritance, although he does get exclusive access to the Berserk Staff. This can be used to harass the enemy and gain experience, or he can sell it and get enough gold to buy a staff like Recover or Warp. He only gets it after Grutia Castle has been seized, though, so it’s not an immediate option.

Rating: A. Leaving Silvia unpaired, or even killing her off, is often considered an “optimal” option, even for non-substitutes runs. It’s not exactly hard to see why – Laylea is one of the few units who can offer Charm support, while Paragon is an excellent skill on Charlot. Moreover, this pairing is the only way to get the Barrier Blade and Berserk Staff in the game. While neither tool is essential, they can enable strategies that wouldn’t be possible otherwise. And since there are no items exclusive to either Lene or Coirpre, you’re not exactly missing out by doing so. Of course, the child units come with their own advantages. Miracle and Adept give Lene an easier time in the Arena, even with her inferior combat stats. And Coirpre will be able to use Fortify and Rescue even before he promotes, thanks to his holy blood. This is before considering the fact that both children can inherit items, giving them an easier (and better-funded) start. While Laylea can use all the same swords as Lene (excepting Chulainn!Lene), she has to buy all of them, whereas Lene can use them from her join time.

So, should you pair Silvia up? It’s hard to say, exactly. I’d put Charlot ahead of most variants of Coirpre, excepting those fathered by Claud, Lewyn, or Lex. Even without staff inheritance, Paragon is just so good. As for Laylea, it depends on what you want out of her. Missing Miracle (and any other combat skills) means she’ll have a harder time making it through the Arena than Lene, and she also has lower durability stats. Lack of any Sword or Ring inheritance hurts as well. On the flip side, Charm provides a kind of utility that Lene can never quite replicate. All-in-all, there’s a compelling case for leaving Silvia unpaired, although I wouldn’t say it’s to such a degree that her children should be considered “sub-optimal” or “obsolete”. Do it if you have plans for the unique traits the substitutes offer.

 

v. Hermina and Hawk

Spoiler

 

Hermina, also known as “Femina”, first appears in Chapter 6, “Heir of Light”. She is a Pegasus Knight from Silesse. Growing up, she heard stories of heroes from the previous generation, such as Sigurd, Erinys, and Annand (also known as “Mahnya”). Eventually, she travels south alongside a son of House Friege, intent on uniting with Lord Seliph and his Liberation Army. Despite her traveling partner’s intent to find his sister in Ulster, he changes his mind, and the two join Seliph’s army after he seizes Ganeishire Castle. Together, they proceed to defeat the forces of Thracia, reunite with their respective siblings, and redeem the continent from the Grannvalean Empire. She is the substitute unit of Fee, in case Erinys died, or otherwise was not paired up at the end of the first generation.

Hermina joins as a level 2 Pegasus Knight. She comes with a Slim Lance, a Berserk Sword, and 3000 Gold. She also possesses the Adept skill. She has no holy blood, and is able to use B-rank Swords and Lances. From level 20 onward, she can promote to the Falcon Knight class. This boosts her Swords and Lances up to A-rank, while also letting her use C-rank Staves. Her stats get a bump, too, but she does not gain any movement or skills. Hermina’s stats, including bases, growths, Pegasus Knight caps, promotion bonuses, and Falcon Knight caps, are as follows:

HP: 28 + 0.60x / 80, + 0 / 80

Str: 10 + 0.30x / 22, + 0 / 22

Mag: 1 + 0.10x / 15, + 7 / 22

Skl: 9 + 0.20x / 22, + 3 / 25

Spd: 16 + 0.50x / 27, + 3 / 30

Lck: 3 + 0.50x / 30, + 0 / 30

Def: 7 + 0.20x / 20, + 1 / 21

Res: 9 + 0.05x / 22, + 5 / 27

Mov: 8, + 0

By and large, Hermina’s events and conversations are the same as Fee’s. Each of them can speak to their brother in Chapter 8 to gain +1 Luck, for instance. Of course, if Fee is a daughter of Lewyn, then she will get +5 Strength from a conversation in Chapter 10; Hermina doesn’t have access to this. Hermina does, however, get one secret event. In chapter 9, she can travel to Tahra in the northwest. In one of the villages, she’ll meet a Shannan impersonator (Shannam?), who grants her +3 Defense. Note that Jeanne can do this as well, but only one of them will be able to access the conversation in a given playthrough.

How do these two units compare when it comes to stats? Hermina’s bases are largely comparable to most versions of Fee. Her Luck will be on the lower side, but her Magic and Resistance will be better than most variants of Fee with a non-magical father. And her Speed is better than Fee’s in all but a couple of cases. Looking at growths, the picture isn’t exactly a rosy one. Hermina’s growths in HP, Magic, Skill, Defense, and Resistance will be no higher than those of any variant of Fee. And her Strength growth is only higher than Fee’s if Fee has a magical father. Hermina’s two “good growth” areas are Speed (where she flies ahead of all but a few variants of Fee), and Luck (where she’ll have a higher growth than Fee in all cases). Since these units have the same class and promotion, they do not differ in terms of caps or promotion gains.

If we look at skills, the problem with Hermina is likely to become apparent immediately. Hermina only has the Adept skill, which gives her a chance to strike consecutively, but isn’t something she can rely on. Fee, meanwhile, always joins with the Pursuit skill, letting her double slower enemies (which, with a light weapon, is practically all the enemies). Fee can also inherit useful skills from her father, such as Critical, Nihil, or Bargain. Finally, Adept isn’t even exclusive to Hermina. Fee will start with it if Lewyn or Jamke is her father. And even if she doesn’t start with it, she’ll gain it upon promotion, since Adept is a class skill for the Falcon Knight.

What’s more, Fee can inherit items from her mother. Notably, she is one of the only units who can inherit Lances. Altena will inherit Quan’s inventory, and an unpaired Finn will keep the weapons that he ended the first generation with, but in both cases, you have to say farewell to the weapons in question at the end of chapter 3. If you want to keep the Brave Lance or a Javelin around for chapters 4 and 5, then Fee is the only potential recipient of them. She can also inherit any of the magical swords, effective swords, or the Brave Sword. Finally, she can receive a valuable Ring or Band from her mother, either to use or to sell. Both Pegasus Knights start with a Slim Lance and a Berserk Sword. The Slim Lance, with its low Weight and high Hit rate, is a legitimately great weapon. The Berserk Sword can be used for gimmicky “berserk the enemy” strategies, but outside of that, it sells for 5000 gold. Still, it’s plain to see that Fee can start from a much better place financially than her counterpart, Hermina.

Hawk first appears in chapter 8. He is the elder brother of Hermina, and like his sister, he hails from Silesse. He leaves home in order to search for his missing father. Along the way, however, he comes to live with the people of Munster. He fights to liberate them from the rule of Grannvale. He succeeds, and comes to take charge of Munster Castle, shortly before an attack from Thracia. After Lord Seliph meets up with him, they proceed to take on Thracia, and the Grannvale Empire at large, together. He is the replacement unit of Ced, in case Erinys died or ended the first generation not paired up.

Hawk joins as a level 14 Sage. He comes with a Light tome and 5000 Gold. He has no holy blood, and has access to B-rank in five areas: Fire, Thunder, Wind, Light, and Staves. He comes with the Pursuit and Adept skills. Since he joins in the Sage class, he does not have an opportunity to promote. Hawk’s stats, including bases, growths, and caps, are as follows:

HP: 38 + 0.60x / 80

Str: 3 + 0.10x / 15

Mag: 22 + 0.20x / 30

Skl: 18 + 0.20x / 27

Spd: 23 + 0.50x / 30

Lck: 4 + 0.20x / 30

Def: 9 + 0.20x / 18

Res: 17 + 0.10x / 27

Mov: 6

Ced and Hawk have the same events and conversations, for the most part. For instance, if either of them are married to a daughter of House Friege by the endgame, then they will receive +3 Magic from their conversation. Ced does have an exclusive conversation with Seliph if Lewyn is his father, from which he receives +3 Luck, which Hawk cannot access. However, Hawk does get one “secret” event. In chapter 9, he can visit Luthecia Castle after Seliph has seized it. There, he will speak with one of the villagers, and he gets rewarded with +3 each to his Magic and Resistance.

Looking at stats, how do these two Sages compare? Hawk generally runs behind Ced in terms of HP, Strength, and Luck. His Skill and Speed will be better than some versions of Ced’s, and worse than others. His Defense runs behind Ced’s in cases where Ced had a physical father, but his Magic is only beaten by Ced if he had a magical father. Finally, his Resistance beats all variants of Ced, except the one fathered by Claud. As for growths, Hawk doesn’t offer a ton that impresses. In HP, Strength, Skill, Luck, Defense, and Resistance, he won’t be ahead of Ced in any case. His Magic growth is better than that of physical-father Ced, but worse than that of magical-father Ced. Finally, Hawk’s standout growth in Speed will be ahead of Ced’s in all but a few cases.

How about skills? Hawk only comes with Pursuit and Adept. In combination, they help to ensure he can finish off slower foes. Ced will have the same skills, in all cases; he inherits Pursuit from his mother, while Adept is a class skill for the Sage. Depending on who his father is, Ced can also have tools like Critical or Vantage, bolstering his combat further. Or the likes of Bargain or Paragon, enhancing his utility. Still, regardless of their parentage, either of these units will have more than competent combat.

Of course, we need to consider item inheritance, too. Hawk has none, and has no access to exclusive item-granting events. In Ced’s case, inheritance will depend on who his father is. Azelle can pass down Tomes to him, as can Lewyn and Claud, who also add Staves into the mix. With a physical father, however, he will only be receiving Rings and Bands. A Magic Ring will give him better offense and healing, while a Shield Ring helps his survivability. And anything he receives can be sold to buy Tomes or Staves. As for Hawk, he only comes with the Light tome – a powerful weapon, certainly, but he won’t be able to provide Staff support right away. Even with his starting Gold, all he can afford is a Heal Staff.

Rating: B. Let’s get this out of the way: Hermina is worse than Fee. Yes, even if Fee has Azelle as her father. Lacking Pursuit just hurts so much. Sure, Hermina can buy the Pursuit Band, but that’s a huge cost to commit to. And it’s not like Hermina has any inheritance that can help her scrounge up the funds. I don’t want to call Hermina a “bad unit”, but relative to Fee, the difference is abundantly clear.

So, why am I rating this pairing above a “C”? It’s pretty simple: Hawk is stronk. I’d go as far as calling him better than any variant of Ced with a physical father. He’ll be behind in some areas, like Luck and Defense, but his Magic, Speed, and Resistance are all excellent. And even though his growths are poor in two of those areas, the chapter 9 event in Luthecia Castle makes up for it. Light is an excellent tome as well, and combined with Pursuit and Adept, he should have no problems against all but the toughest Arena foes. Ced can do the same, sure, but with a physical father his relevant stats will just be a bit worse. With higher Magic, Hawk can be more effective with status staves (although no inheritance means he has a harder time buying them), while higher Resistance means enemy status staves and siege tomes are of little concern.

Should you pair Erinys up? In most cases, yes. Sure, not having to find a partner for her can be somewhat liberating. Her movement is like that of no other unit in the first generation, so being able to fly wherever she feels like is certainly nice. Of course, she gets the option of marrying Lewyn with just a conversation, regardless of how long they’ve spent together. But if you wish to pair Lewyn with Tailtiu, or perhaps Silvia, then Erinys may have a tougher time finding somebody to love. If you choose to leave her unpaired, be prepared – Hermina will give a lackluster performance, simply not rising to the level offered by Fee. Hawk, however, will be a totally respectable unit, offering fierce combat and support in equal measure. I think most players will be satisfied by what he provides.

 

vi. Linda and Amid

Spoiler

 

Linda first appears in chapter 7, “Beyond the Desert”. She is the daughter of Lady Ethnia of House Friege. Ethnia was the younger sister of Tailtiu and daughter of Reptor, making Linda the niece of Tailtiu. Although she was born in Silesse, she was taken to Northern Thracia, alongside her mother, by her cruel Uncle Bloom. After her mother’s death, she continued to fight on behalf of House Friege in defense of their control of Ulster. But when spoken to by her brother, Amid, she defects to Lord Seliph’s Liberation Army. Together, they displace Grannvalean control in Northern Thracia, and eventually upset the Empire at large. She is the replacement unit for Tine, in case Tailtiu died during the first generation, or otherwise ended it without a husband.

Linda joins as a level 3 Thunder Mage. She has minor Thrud Holy Blood, and as a result, she is able to use up to A-rank Thunder Tomes. She comes with the Elthunder tome and 5000 Gold. She also comes with the Wrath and Paragon skills. From level 20 onward, she can promote to the War Mage class. This increases her stats and movement, while also granting her the Adept skill. She also gains access to B-rank Fire, Wind, and Staves, as well as C-rank Swords. Her stats, including bases, growths, Thunder Mage caps, promotion bonuses, and War Mage caps, are as follows:

HP: 26 + 0.90x / 80, + 0 / 80

Str: 0 + 0.10x / 15, + 3 / 18

Mag: 11 + 0.40x / 22, + 5 / 27

Skl: 12 + 0.40x / 24, + 3 / 24*

Spd: 9 + 0.30x / 21, + 6 / 27

Lck: 2 + 0.20x / 30, + 0 / 30

Def: 2 + 0.10x / 16, + 4 / 20

Res: 7 + 0.20x / 20, + 5 / 25

Mov: 5, + 1

*This breaks the “base class caps plus promotion bonuses equals promoted class caps” rule seen in all other classes and units, but all evidence available to me suggests that these numbers are accurate.

Relative to Tine, Linda will have access to mostly the same conversations and events. For example, either of them can have a conversation with Seliph in chapter 8 after he seizes Conote. In doing so, she will receive +3 HP and 100 love points with Seliph. However, there is one “secret” event exclusive to Linda. In chapter 8, she can wait on a hard-to-reach tree near the center of the map. In doing so, she will have a conversation with Jake, Anna’s long-neglected lover, who will reward her with +3 Resistance.

How do the two potential daughters of House Friege compare when it comes to stats? As bases go, Linda will tend to do better than Tine when it comes to Magic, Skill, and Resistance. Her HP, Strength, and Luck are typically lower, while her Speed and Defense are pretty competitive with Tine’s own. As growths go, her Strength, Skill, Speed, Luck, and Defense are lower than all variants of Tine. Linda’s HP growth is lower than most (but not all) versions of Tine, while her growths in Magic and Resistance are better than physical-father Tine’s.

Looking at skills, Linda comes with Wrath and Paragon. The Wrath skill is shared with Tine, so it isn’t a distinction between the two units. However, Tine will only have the Paragon skill if she is the daughter of Lex; other variants of Tine will not have the skill. That said, Tine can acquire other skills based on her parentage. With Azelle as her father, she will have the Pursuit skill, while Lewyn grants Critical and early Adept. Other potentially useful skills for Tine include Bargain (from Dew) and Vantage (from Arden or Lex). Both Linda and Tine can promote to War Mage, thus gaining the Adept skill if they didn’t already have it.

As for weapons and inheritance, Linda will only start with the Elthunder tome and 5000 Gold. Tine also starts with Elthunder, but she can inherit the Wind and Fire tome, too. Depending on her parentage, she may be able to inherit Elwind or Elfire from a promoted Tailtiu as well. Tailtiu can also pass down resources like the Magic Ring or the Pursuit Band, which she can use to her own end or otherwise sell. While Linda doesn’t come with any inheritance, she does have one advantage over Tine via her starting class. Thanks to her Thunder Mage class (combined with minor Thrud Holy Blood), she can use up to A-rank Thunder tomes. This includes the powerful Thoron tome, which is dropped by Ishtore earlier in chapter 7. She’ll need to make some money in order to afford it, but it does give her a more powerful option than anything Tine (with B-rank Thunder magic) will offer. On the other hand, Tine can use Wind tomes, so she may enjoy better Hit and Avoid rates against opponents from House Friege. After promotion, however, the distinction between the units is mitigated, since they will both be War Mages.

Amid first appears in chapter 6, “Heir of Light”. He is the elder brother of Linda, and the son of Ethnia. He grew up in Silesse, but was separated from his mother and sister when his Uncle Bloom abducted them. He travels south alongside a Silessian Pegasus Knight, intent on reuniting with his lost sister. Along the way, however, they join up with Seliph’s Liberation Army in Isaach. Traveling with Seliph, he reunites with his sister, and recruits her to join his side. Together, they fight to redeem the continent from the Grannvalean Empire. He is the substitute unit for Arthur, in case Tailtiu died during the first generation, or otherwise was not paired up.

Amid joins as a level 2 Wind Mage. He has minor Thrud Holy Blood, and is able to wield B-rank Wind tomes. He joins with the Wind tome and 2000 Gold. He comes with the Adept skill as well. From level 20 onwards, he can promote to the War Mage class. This boosts his stats and movement. It also lets him use B-rank Fire, A-rank Thunder, and B-rank Swords. His stats, including bases, growths, Wind Mage caps, promotion bonuses, and War Mage caps, are as follows:

HP: 29 + 0.90x / 80, + 0 / 80

Str: 1 + 0.20x / 15, + 5 / 20

Mag: 11 + 0.40x / 22, + 5 / 27

Skl: 10 + 0.50x / 21, + 4 / 25

Spd: 14 + 0.40x / 24, + 4 / 25*

Lck: 6 + 0.20x / 30, + 0 / 30

Def: 4 + 0.20x / 16, + 6 / 22

Res: 9 + 0.20x / 20, + 3 / 23

Mov: 5, + 1

*The disparity happened again, but in Speed this time. Maybe it’s a quirk of Elemental Mage caps?

For the most part, Amid’s conversations and events are the same as those available to Arthur. For instance, either of them can speak to his respective sister in the Endgame, awarding +1 Luck to the sister. There is, however, one secret event available to Amid. In chapter 8, he can have a conversation with Jake, granting him +3 Resistance. It’s in the same hard-to-reach part of the map as his sister’s secret event – Amid gets the northeast tree, while Linda uses the southwest one.

While Arthur’s stats vary depending on his parentage, we can still broadly compare them to Amid’s. Amid will start with more Magic, Speed, Defense, and Resistance than pretty much any version of Arthur. And his HP, Strength, Skill, and Luck will be fairly competitive with Arthur’s own. As for growths, Amid does no better than any version of Arthur in HP, Skill, Speed, Luck, and Defense. His Strength growth is only better than those of Arthur with a magical father. Amid’s Magic and Resistance growths, meanwhile, are better than Arthur’s, except when Arthur has a magical father.

As for skills, Amid only joins with the Adept skill, letting him strike twice when the RNG wills it. Normally, the War Mage class comes with Adept, but since Amid already has it, he gets no new skills upon promotion. It is possible for Arthur to have the Adept skill as well, if Jamke or Lewyn is his father. He can also get skills like Pursuit, Vantage, and Paragon, depending on who his father is. And this is before considering the fact that Arthur will always come with the Wrath skill. So, while Amid can only secure a crit with a 50-kill tome, Arthur can do it any time he attacks below half-HP.

Looking at inheritance, both Amid and Arthur will start with the Wind tome. Amid comes with 2000 Gold, while Arthur’s Gold (and other items) depends on what his father has to offer. Arthur can inherit Elwind and the Forseti if Lewyn is his father, while Azelle can pass down Elfire. And any magical father can pass down the Thunder or Fire tomes to him. Regardless of who his father is, Arthur will be able to inherit other equippable items. The Magic Ring, for instance, will increase his damage output, whereas the Bargain Band could give him an easier time repairing his tome or else buying new ones. And, whatever he inherits (aside from Holy Weapons), he’ll have the chance to translate into cold hard cash.

There are a couple other differences to consider between these units. Because they start in different classes, they have a different choice of tomes. While Arthur can use Thunder and Fire magic, Amid can only use Wind magic. In particular, he can use the Elwind tome before promotion. If this tome isn’t inherited, it can be bought at the Armory from chapter 9 onward. After promotion, these two units see their weapon ranks equalize, excepting cases where Arthur inherits additional Holy Blood. However, there’s a big difference between them – whereas Arthur goes Mage Knight, Amid becomes a War Mage. This means that Amid has higher stat boosts from his promotion, but conversely, he doesn’t gain a mount. As such, he’ll have lower movement, and no ability to Canto without the Knight Band.

Rating: A. I’ve often heard this pairing perceived as “sacrificing the son to improve the daughter”. Is Amid worse than Arthur? I wouldn’t necessarily say so. Amid does better in Resistance (even before considering his secret event) than all variants of Arthur, except for Claud!Arthur, and his Magic outperforms all but Azelle!Arthur and Claud!Arthur. His HP, Skill, and Speed are all pretty solid as well, if not quite up-to-snuff with Arthur’s after a few levels. Adept is a decent skill, especially with his good starting Attack Speed, but it’s not reliable. Without Wrath, though, he won’t be able to do as much damage when below half-HP, even compared to physical-father versions of Arthur. And Arthur can have other skills (including Adept) depending on who his father is. And this is before considering the mount he gains upon promotion. Still, generally-speaking, I would consider Amid better than Naoise!Arthur, Jamke!Arthur, and Chulainn!Arthur, but worse than those variants with a magical father or a strong skill (Pursuit/Paragon/Bargain/Vantage).

With that out of the way, let’s ask: is Linda better than Tine? Both girls have the Wrath skill, while Linda can also claim Paragon to her name. Tine, however, can have other useful combat skills, like Vantage or Pursuit. Linda’s other advantage is the Thoron tome, letting her deal more damage than Tine can offer pre-promotion. Then again, Tine will have the option of the lighter Wind tome (with WTA over opposing Thunder mages). Looking back to stats, Linda will generally underperform Tine in Skill, Speed, Luck, and physical bulk, but her Magic and Resistance are pretty solid. And with her secret event, she can get extra insurance against lategame threats, such as Silence staves and Fenrir tomes. They both promote to War Mage, so unlike the case of Arthur/Amid, that’s not a distinguishing factor between them. I’d call Linda worse than Azelle!Tine and Lex!Tine, but competitive with Lewyn!Tine and Claud!Tine, and better than the other variants with a physical father.

So, should the player pair Tailtiu up? You don’t have her for long, and her movement is awful, so not having to bother with using her beyond what’s necessary may be inviting. Still, with the right husband, her kids can give a great performance. Skills like Pursuit and Bargain won’t be available to the substitutes in any case, and the child units can also inherit valuable tomes and items. The substitutes do have advantages over certain versions of the kids – Amid has Adept and (pre-promotion) Elwind access over most versions of Arthur, whereas Linda gets built-in Paragon and (pre-promotion) Thoron access. Is it worth giving up Arthur’s horse, Tine’s (pre-promotion) access to Wind, and either kid’s access to various useful skills? It’s up to the player, but it just might be worth it.

 

vii. Asaello and Daisy

Spoiler

 

Asaello first appear in chapter 8, “The Wyvern Knights of Thracia”. He is employed by Lord Bloom from House Friege as a mercenary. At Bloom’s command, he went out to face Lord Seliph’s forces, since he earnestly needs the money. Upon being confronted by his sister, however, he defects to Seliph’s Liberation Army. In this role, he assists him in displacing Grannvalean control from Northern Thracia, and eventually upsetting the Empire as a whole. He is the substitute unit of Febail, in case Brigid died or otherwise ended the first generation unpaired.

Asaello joins as a level 9 Archer, also known as “Bow Fighter”. While he has no holy blood, he has access to A-rank Bows from the start. He joins with a Silver Bow and 2000 Gold. He also comes with the Pursuit skill and the Accost skill. These can help him deal with slower foes who survive more than one hit, but the Accost skill may wind up backfiring on him. From level 20 onward, he can promote to the Sniper class. This buffs his stats, but does not impact his movement, weapon ranks, or skill set. Asaello’s stats, including bases, growths, Archer caps, promotion bonuses, and Sniper caps, are as follows:

HP: 36 + 0.90x / 80, + 0 / 80

Str: 12 + 0.40x / 22, + 5 / 27

Mag: 1 + 0.05x / 15, + 0 / 15

Skl: 15 + 0.10x / 25, + 2 / 27

Spd: 15 + 0.20x / 25, + 2 / 27

Lck: 3 + 0.60x / 30, + 0 / 30

Def: 10 + 0.30x / 20, + 2 / 22

Res: 1 + 0.05x / 15, + 3 / 18

Mov: 6, + 0

Most of Asaello’s conversations and events are also available to Febail. For instance, either of them can speak to the army’s resident Cleric in chapter 10, in order to give her +3 HP and 100 love points between the two of them. However, there is a “secret” event that is exclusive to Asaello. If he visits the village northwest of Conote Castle, then he will be rewarded with +3 Strength.

How do the potential Archers compare in terms of stats? Of course, Febail can vary in who his father is, which will have implications for his bases and growths. Looking at bases, Asaello is behind all versions of Febail in HP and Luck, but decently competitive in terms of other stats. He’ll do better in Strength and Defense (and worse in Magic) than magical-father variants of Febail, but as good or worse than those with a physical father. Certain versions of Febail will do better in Skill, Speed, and Resistance, though. As for growths, Asaello’s HP, Magic, Skill, Speed, Luck, and Resistance will be behind all variants of Febail. His Strength and Defense growths, meanwhile, will be behind those of all variants of Febail with a physical father. Even with solid-looking growths in HP and Luck, he just isn’t able to live up to the standards of a counterpart with Major Holy Blood.

As for skills, both Archers will have the Pursuit skill, due to its association with the class. Asaello will also come with the Accost skill, which can help him finish off certain foes. Of course, Febail can also have Accost if he is fathered by Naoise, Midir, or Jamke. And two of those fathers will grant him another skill (Critical from Naoise or Adept from Jamke). And other fathers can grant still other useful skills, such as Bargain (from Dew) or Paragon (from Lex).

Looking at inheritance, Febail will receive the Yewfelle, also known as “Ichaival”, from his mother. This is the hardest-hitting bow in the game, although the Killer Bow and Brave Bow may be superior to it in certain contexts. Both start with a Silver Bow, which does solid damage, but has weight and accuracy issues. Febail can additionally inherit other bows from his mother, like the aforementioned Killer and Brave Bows, although if those weren’t passed down, they will be dropped by enemies later in the same chapter. Febail can also receive resources like the Speed Ring or Return Ring, of course, either to use or simply to sell. Asaello has no such luck, and he gets no access to any exclusive items.

Daisy first appears in chapter 7, “Beyond the Desert”. She broke into the Aed Shrine, and absconded with various treasures, including the legendary sword, Balmung. As she tries to flee from the Loptyr Mages, she is confronted by Prince Shannan of Isaach. Once she learns of his identity, she hands over the sword, and they fight or flee together. Once the threat at Aed has been dealt with, she joins Seliph’s Liberation Army. Eventually, she encounters her brother, Asaello, and recruits him to Seliph’s side. Together, they assist him in his crusade against the Grannvalean Empire.

Daisy shows up as a level 1 Thief. She has no holy blood, and is able to use C-rank Swords. She comes with the Sleep Sword and 5000 Gold. She also has the Steal and Miracle skills. Steal is the default state of the Thief class, while Miracle may save her life in the field, or otherwise give her an easier time in the Arena. From level 20 onwards, she can promote to the Rogue class. This is an all-around glow-up, giving her stat boosts, higher movement, access to A-rank Swords, and the Pursuit skill. Her stats, including bases, growths, Thief caps, promotion bonuses, and Rogue caps, are as follows:

HP: 24 + 0.50x / 80, + 0 / 80

Str: 3 + 0.10x / 18, + 4 / 22

Mag: 1 + 0.10x / 15, + 3 / 18

Skl: 4 + 0.30x / 18, + 4 / 22

Spd: 13 + 0.50x / 22, + 5 / 27

Lck: 6 + 0.30x / 30, + 0 / 30

Def: 2 + 0.20x / 16, + 4 / 20

Res: 3 + 0.10x / 15, + 3 / 18

Mov: 6, + 1*

*Numerous sources, including both FE wikis, list Daisy as starting with 7 movement. However, I have confirmed with game footage from chapter 7 that Daisy, indeed, begins with 6 movement.

For the most part, Daisy’s events and conversations are identical to those available to Patty. In chapter 9, for instance, either Thief can speak to Hannibal’s adoptive son. This will grant him +3 HP, while also awarding the pair with 100 love points. There is, however, one event exclusive to Daisy that is worth taking note of. In chapter 7, after Bloom has been defeated, Daisy can be placed next to Shannan. Doing so will initiate a conversation, in which Daisy receives +3 Skill and +3 Speed. This can only be done before Ulster is seized, since doing so will end the chapter.

How do these units compare when it comes to stats? Well, Daisy will begin with lower HP, Strength, Skill, and Defense than all variants of Patty. Her starting Magic and Luck will be pretty competitive with Patty’s own, while her Speed and Resistance will actually be ahead of those of any Patty variant. As for growths, Daisy is always behind Patty in HP, Strength, Magic, Skill, Luck, and Defense. Her Resistance growth is ahead of almost all physical-father variants of Patty, while her Speed is growth is ahead of every variant, excepting Lewyn!Patty.

Regarding skills, both Daisy and Patty will have the Steal skill, which is built into the Thief class. Daisy will also have the Miracle skill, helping her dodge hits at low HP. Patty can only have the Miracle skill if Finn is her father; although this pairing grows quickly, it is hard to pull off, due to the limited window of time in which it can be developed. Patty will also have the option of the Miracle Sword to simulate the skill’s effect, although she cannot inherit it directly. Both Daisy and Patty will gain the Pursuit skill upon promotion, although only Patty will be able to have it from the start. Patty may also have any one of a number of skills not available to Daisy, such as Bargain, Adept, and Luna.

As for inheritance, both girls will start with the Sleep Sword. This can occasionally be useful in the field, but it’s not reliable, so it may be better saved for trivializing the Arena. Daisy also begins with 5000 Gold, which she can hold on to or give away at her convenience. It’s a shame she didn’t take more from the Aed Shrine, however. Patty can inherit Swords and other items from her father. These can include the defensive Shield Sword, or perhaps a magical sword to rob foes at range. And if Chulainn is her father, she can inherit B-rank Swords, like the Armorslayer or the Brave Sword. Even without a Sword-wielding father, Patty can appreciate valuable trinkets like the Barrier Ring or the Pursuit Band. No such resources will be available to Daisy.

Rating: C. I wanted to like these kids; I really did. I don’t think they’re the worst pair of substitutes, either. At a bare minimum, each of them offers a personal skill. Miracle is a nice skill on Daisy, as it lets her trivialize the Arena without the Sleep Sword, but Patty can replicate this via the Miracle Sword, or by being Finn’s daughter. Accost is pretty decent on Asaello, too, but Jamke, Midir, and Naoise (all quite good fathers for Febail) will give it to Febail as well. Outside of the skills, there’s not much to recommend here. Their growths are lower than the child units in almost every relevant area, and even with (some) higher bases and boosts from their secret events, they generally can’t keep up stat-wise with the units they are replacing.

So, should you pair Brigid up? Yes. Yes, that’s about all I have to say. The substitutes might be better than the child units in the case that Claud fathers them, with Asaello also (probably) beating out Azelle!Febail, but that’s it. The child units will be better than the substitutes with any physical father, or even Lewyn. Brigid has a conversation with Midir, and similar movement to the likes of Chulainn, Jamke, and Dew, any of whom will be good for the kids. Even if you don’t want to do anything with her, you can park her next to Arden, and the kids will be fine. Asaello and Daisy may make for a fun challenge, but they’re difficult to recommend for anything approaching optimal play.

 

Whew, what a write-up! Examining the substitutes could have made for its own weekly series. But, here they are. We're not out of the woods yet - next week, I'll feature a "Summary" chapter, bringing back all the charts and even integrating the "Unpaired/Substitutes" option into the rankings. I think that will bring this considerable task to an end. Look forward to it!

Oh, and let me know what you think of the substitutes, and whether I've been fair to them or not, below!

Edited by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
Previously a placeholder post.

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Endgame: Summary

So, who is the best partner for each potential mother? How do they all compare? I’ll also include “{}” to represent leaving the mother unpaired. Let’s summarize:

i. Edain

Spoiler

 

*: Midir

A: Azelle, Jamke, Claud

B: Alec, Arden, Lex, Finn, Dew, Beowolf, Lewyn, {}

😄 Naoise, Chulainn

 

ii. Ayra

Spoiler

 

*: Chulainn

A: Lex, Dew

B: Naoise, Arden, Azelle, Jamke, Beowolf, Lewyn

😄 Alec, Finn, Midir, Claud, {}

 

iii. Raquesis

Spoiler

 

*: Beowolf

A: Alec, Azelle, Dew

B: Naoise, Lex, Finn, Midir, Lewyn, Claud

😄 Arden, Jamke, Chulainn, {}

 

iv. Silvia

Spoiler

 

*: Claud

A: Alec, Lex, Lewyn, {}

B: Azelle, Dew, Chulainn

😄 Naoise, Arden, Finn, Midir, Jamke, Beowolf

 

v. Erinys

Spoiler

 

*: Lewyn

A: Naoise, Lex, Claud

B: Alec, Azelle, Dew, Chulainn, {}

😄 Arden, Finn, Midir, Jamke, Beowolf

 

vi. Tailtiu

Spoiler

 

*: Azelle

A: Lex, Lewyn, Claud, {}

B: Alec, Arden, Midir, Dew, Beowolf

😄 Naoise, Finn, Jamke, Chulainn

 

vii. Brigid

Spoiler

 

*: Jamke

A: Lex, Midir, Dew, Chulainn

B: Naoise, Alec, Arden, Azelle, Beowolf, Lewyn

😄 Finn, Claud, {}

 

Of course, we could stop there. But there’s another angle we can use to look at this. How good is each father, for each potential mother? Let’s look at them, one-by-one:

i. Naoise

Spoiler

 

*:

A: Erinys

B: Ayra, Raquesis, Brigid

😄 Edain, Silvia, Tailtiu

 

ii. Alec

Spoiler

 

*:

A: Raquesis, Silvia

B: Edain, Erinys, Tailtiu, Brigid

😄 Ayra

 

iii. Arden

Spoiler

 

*:

A:

B: Edain, Ayra, Tailtiu, Brigid

😄 Raquesis, Silvia, Erinys

 

iv. Azelle

Spoiler

 

*: Tailtiu

A: Edain, Raquesis

B: Ayra, Silvia, Erinys, Brigid

😄

 

v. Lex

Spoiler

 

*:

A: Ayra, Silvia, Erinys, Tailtiu, Brigid

B: Edain, Raquesis

😄

 

vi. Finn

Spoiler

 

*:

A:

B: Edain, Raquesis

😄 Ayra, Silvia, Erinys, Tailtiu, Brigid

 

vii. Midir

Spoiler

 

*: Brigid

A: Edain

B: Raquesis, Tailtiu

😄 Ayra, Silvia, Erinys

 

viii. Dew

Spoiler

 

*:

A: Ayra, Raquesis, Brigid

B: Edain, Silvia, Erinys, Tailtiu

😄

 

ix. Jamke

Spoiler

 

*: Brigid

A: Edain

B: Ayra

😄 Raquesis, Silvia, Erinys, Tailtiu

 

x. Chulainn

Spoiler

 

*: Ayra

A: Brigid

B: Silvia, Erinys

😄 Edain, Raquesis, Tailtiu

 

xi. Beowolf

Spoiler

 

*: Raquesis

A:

B: Edain, Ayra, Tailtiu, Brigid

😄 Silvia, Erinys

 

xii. Lewyn

Spoiler

 

*: Erinys

A: Silvia, Tailtiu

B: Edain, Ayra, Raquesis, Brigid

😄

 

xiii. Claud

Spoiler

 

*: Silvia

A: Edain, Erinys, Tailtiu

B: Raquesis

😄 Ayra, Brigid

 

xiv. {}

Spoiler

 

*:

A: Silvia, Tailtiu

B: Edain, Erinys

😄 Ayra, Raquesis, Brigid

 

In any case, thank you all so much for your engagement and participation in this series! Genealogy of the Holy War is one of my favorite games in the series, and the question of “who to pair with whom?” is one of its most interesting aspects. And it further enhances the replayability, too. I’ve provided my own assessments of the suitability of each pairing, but what do you think? Have these been fair analyses, or have I erred in judgement? Let me know what you think!

Note: Apparently C: formats as a smiley face when the C isn't bolded, but you know what? It's funny, so I'm leaving it.

Edited by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
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2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Note: Apparently C: formats as a smiley face when the C isn't bolded, but you know what? It's funny, so I'm leaving it.

You really had to laugh at my boy Arden like that.

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7 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

You really had to laugh at my boy Arden like that.

Not at Arden in General (or in Sword Srmor)! Just at the notion of marrying Arden with Raquesis, Silvia, or Erinys.

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2 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Not at Arden in General (or in Sword Srmor)! Just at the notion of marrying Arden with Raquesis, Silvia, or Erinys.

How would you like it if Arden came into your house and laughed at your marriage options?

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18 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

How would you like it if Arden came into your house and laughed at your marriage options?

You've got me there. Ayra was the best wife Arden happened to be able to afford. I shouldn't laugh at his misfortune. 

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On 3/15/2022 at 1:58 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Rating: A. Leaving Silvia unpaired, or even killing her off, is often considered an “optimal” option, even for non-substitutes runs. It’s not exactly hard to see why – Laylea is one of the few units who can offer Charm support, while Paragon is an excellent skill on Charlot. Moreover, this pairing is the only way to get the Barrier Blade and Berserk Staff in the game. While neither tool is essential, they can enable strategies that wouldn’t be possible otherwise. And since there are no items exclusive to either Lene or Coirpre, you’re not exactly missing out by doing so. Of course, the child units come with their own advantages. Miracle and Adept give Lene an easier time in the Arena, even with her inferior combat stats. And Coirpre will be able to use Fortify and Rescue even before he promotes, thanks to his holy blood. This is before considering the fact that both children can inherit items, giving them an easier (and better-funded) start. While Laylea can use all the same swords as Lene (excepting Chulainn!Lene), she has to buy all of them, whereas Lene can use them from her join time.

So, should you pair Silvia up? It’s hard to say, exactly. I’d put Charlot ahead of most variants of Coirpre, excepting those fathered by Claud, Lewyn, or Lex. Even without staff inheritance, Paragon is just so good. As for Laylea, it depends on what you want out of her. Missing Miracle (and any other combat skills) means she’ll have a harder time making it through the Arena than Lene, and she also has lower durability stats. Lack of any Sword or Ring inheritance hurts as well. On the flip side, Charm provides a kind of utility that Lene can never quite replicate. All-in-all, there’s a compelling case for leaving Silvia unpaired, although I wouldn’t say it’s to such a degree that her children should be considered “sub-optimal” or “obsolete”. Do it if you have plans for the unique traits the substitutes offer.

That's the thing, this pairing in particular gets unique options unlike any other pairing that make it worth considering and essential for getting every item, with both of those having utility that makes it worth considering on that basis alone.

On 3/15/2022 at 1:58 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Rating: B. Let’s get this out of the way: Hermina is worse than Fee. Yes, even if Fee has Azelle as her father. Lacking Pursuit just hurts so much. Sure, Hermina can buy the Pursuit Band, but that’s a huge cost to commit to. And it’s not like Hermina has any inheritance that can help her scrounge up the funds. I don’t want to call Hermina a “bad unit”, but relative to Fee, the difference is abundantly clear.

So, why am I rating this pairing above a “C”? It’s pretty simple: Hawk is stronk. I’d go as far as calling him better than any variant of Ced with a physical father. He’ll be behind in some areas, like Luck and Defense, but his Magic, Speed, and Resistance are all excellent. And even though his growths are poor in two of those areas, the chapter 9 event in Luthecia Castle makes up for it. Light is an excellent tome as well, and combined with Pursuit and Adept, he should have no problems against all but the toughest Arena foes. Ced can do the same, sure, but with a physical father his relevant stats will just be a bit worse. With higher Magic, Hawk can be more effective with status staves (although no inheritance means he has a harder time buying them), while higher Resistance means enemy status staves and siege tomes are of little concern.

Should you pair Erinys up? In most cases, yes. Sure, not having to find a partner for her can be somewhat liberating. Her movement is like that of no other unit in the first generation, so being able to fly wherever she feels like is certainly nice. Of course, she gets the option of marrying Lewyn with just a conversation, regardless of how long they’ve spent together. But if you wish to pair Lewyn with Tailtiu, or perhaps Silvia, then Erinys may have a tougher time finding somebody to love. If you choose to leave her unpaired, be prepared – Hermina will give a lackluster performance, simply not rising to the level offered by Fee. Hawk, however, will be a totally respectable unit, offering fierce combat and support in equal measure. I think most players will be satisfied by what he provides.

I mean, Azelle!Fee gets Magic Sword niches, so that's pretty worthwhile.

This pairing being what it is, the value of Hawk has to be balanced by the fact that Hermina is just flying niche for the early game, which is a shame because Fee has options to make her very reliable.

On 3/15/2022 at 1:58 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Rating: A. I’ve often heard this pairing perceived as “sacrificing the son to improve the daughter”. Is Amid worse than Arthur? I wouldn’t necessarily say so. Amid does better in Resistance (even before considering his secret event) than all variants of Arthur, except for Claud!Arthur, and his Magic outperforms all but Azelle!Arthur and Claud!Arthur. His HP, Skill, and Speed are all pretty solid as well, if not quite up-to-snuff with Arthur’s after a few levels. Adept is a decent skill, especially with his good starting Attack Speed, but it’s not reliable. Without Wrath, though, he won’t be able to do as much damage when below half-HP, even compared to physical-father versions of Arthur. And Arthur can have other skills (including Adept) depending on who his father is. And this is before considering the mount he gains upon promotion. Still, generally-speaking, I would consider Amid better than Naoise!Arthur, Jamke!Arthur, and Chulainn!Arthur, but worse than those variants with a magical father or a strong skill (Pursuit/Paragon/Bargain/Vantage).

With that out of the way, let’s ask: is Linda better than Tine? Both girls have the Wrath skill, while Linda can also claim Paragon to her name. Tine, however, can have other useful combat skills, like Vantage or Pursuit. Linda’s other advantage is the Thoron tome, letting her deal more damage than Tine can offer pre-promotion. Then again, Tine will have the option of the lighter Wind tome (with WTA over opposing Thunder mages). Looking back to stats, Linda will generally underperform Tine in Skill, Speed, Luck, and physical bulk, but her Magic and Resistance are pretty solid. And with her secret event, she can get extra insurance against lategame threats, such as Silence staves and Fenrir tomes. They both promote to War Mage, so unlike the case of Arthur/Amid, that’s not a distinguishing factor between them. I’d call Linda worse than Azelle!Tine and Lex!Tine, but competitive with Lewyn!Tine and Claud!Tine, and better than the other variants with a physical father.

So, should the player pair Tailtiu up? You don’t have her for long, and her movement is awful, so not having to bother with using her beyond what’s necessary may be inviting. Still, with the right husband, her kids can give a great performance. Skills like Pursuit and Bargain won’t be available to the substitutes in any case, and the child units can also inherit valuable tomes and items. The substitutes do have advantages over certain versions of the kids – Amid has Adept and (pre-promotion) Elwind access over most versions of Arthur, whereas Linda gets built-in Paragon and (pre-promotion) Thoron access. Is it worth giving up Arthur’s horse, Tine’s (pre-promotion) access to Wind, and either kid’s access to various useful skills? It’s up to the player, but it just might be worth it.

Ultimately it's the fact that they get better relevant stats than most pairings that make this worth considering so highly. I would agree on the ranking here.

Missing the horse is a disappointment though.

On 3/15/2022 at 1:58 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Rating: C. I wanted to like these kids; I really did. I don’t think they’re the worst pair of substitutes, either. At a bare minimum, each of them offers a personal skill. Miracle is a nice skill on Daisy, as it lets her trivialize the Arena without the Sleep Sword, but Patty can replicate this via the Miracle Sword, or by being Finn’s daughter. Accost is pretty decent on Asaello, too, but Jamke, Midir, and Naoise (all quite good fathers for Febail) will give it to Febail as well. Outside of the skills, there’s not much to recommend here. Their growths are lower than the child units in almost every relevant area, and even with (some) higher bases and boosts from their secret events, they generally can’t keep up stat-wise with the units they are replacing.

So, should you pair Brigid up? Yes. Yes, that’s about all I have to say. The substitutes might be better than the child units in the case that Claud fathers them, with Asaello also (probably) beating out Azelle!Febail, but that’s it. The child units will be better than the substitutes with any physical father, or even Lewyn. Brigid has a conversation with Midir, and similar movement to the likes of Chulainn, Jamke, and Dew, any of whom will be good for the kids. Even if you don’t want to do anything with her, you can park her next to Arden, and the kids will be fine. Asaello and Daisy may make for a fun challenge, but they’re difficult to recommend for anything approaching optimal play.

RIP Asaello, the worst character in the Genealogy rankings in my heart (even if Hannibal was lower on some rankings).

If they got something more they could've had a chance. It's funny that they've portraits in Thracia 776, wonder if they were planned to be playable.

Thank you very much by the way @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate on this series of posts.

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2 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

Thank you very much by the way @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate on this series of posts.

Thanks for the feedback! It makes it all worth it.

2 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

RIP Asaello, the worst character in the Genealogy rankings in my heart (even if Hannibal was lower on some rankings).

If they got something more they could've had a chance. It's funny that they've portraits in Thracia 776, wonder if they were planned to be playable.

It'd be curious to see how he plays. Would he replace Ronan, or have his own role?

The frustrating thing is, they almost seemed close to greatness. FE4 Miracle on an otherwise combat-deficient class, like Thief, is legit good. And Asaello's Strength-boosting event is one of the better ones. But... that's it. Patty can actually get Swords and useful skills, while Febail gets the legendary Yewfelle. And both have growths far better than their substitutes. 

2 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

I mean, Azelle!Fee gets Magic Sword niches, so that's pretty worthwhile.

This pairing being what it is, the value of Hawk has to be balanced by the fact that Hermina is just flying niche for the early game, which is a shame because Fee has options to make her very reliable.

Yep - she can distract some of Schmidt's crew in chapter 6, and get to the Dark Mages at Aed (and the village west of Darna) earlier in chapter 7. With a Paragon Band, it's very feasible to promote her after Arena-ing in chapter 8, giving you an extra mounted staff user. I don't see Hermina, without Pursuit, as ever approaching this.

2 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

Ultimately it's the fact that they get better relevant stats than most pairings that make this worth considering so highly. I would agree on the ranking here.

Missing the horse is a disappointment though.

It's a bit of a shame, that Amid's Adept feels redundant with his promotion. Obviously it's better getting it earlier than later, but suppose Amid started off with Pursuit instead of Adept. I think he'd have a solid case at being better than most variants of Arthur, even with the lower movement post-promotion.

2 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

That's the thing, this pairing in particular gets unique options unlike any other pairing that make it worth considering and essential for getting every item, with both of those having utility that makes it worth considering on that basis alone.

I've never gotten these kids, but I definitely want to on a future playthrough, in part for their secret items. The Barrier Blade could be like a mini-Mystletainn, while the Berserk is... well it's free Gold/EXP.

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Good breakdown, it has been a bit since the last "who's the best father" topic. The only problem I have is having the "just one perfect dad" clause, but overall I wouldn't change that much in the rankings, especially with how much subjective they are. 

Spoiler

Except for NaoisexErynis, that pairing is kinda bad, I don't understand how it became so popular.

 

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7 minutes ago, Quell said:

Good breakdown, it has been a bit since the last "who's the best father" topic. The only problem I have is having the "just one perfect dad" clause, but overall I wouldn't change that much in the rankings, especially with how much subjective they are. 

Thanks for the feedback! Yeah maybe I should've allowed for more than one * ranking, but I didn't want to seem indecisive. 

8 minutes ago, Quell said:

Except for NaoisexErynis, that pairing is kinda bad, I don't understand how it became so popular.

So I haven't tried this one personally, but it definitely seems like one of the better pairings for Fee. Since it gives her a slightly better Strength growth, alongside the Critical skill. Ced, too, will have the same skills as Lewyn!Ced - he won't have Forseti, but he can still kill almost any foes with the Light tome. Accost is very situational whether it'll be good or bad. Plus, Erinys and Naoise have similar movement - he does better on Road tiles, they tie on Plains, and she does better everywhere else. I wouldn't call it groundbreaking, and it's worse for Ced than a magical daddy, but it looks solid enough from the outside. 

Looking back, I wonder if I should've given Naoise x Ayra an A? He can pass down B-Swords to Scathach, and Critical is a good skill on the Twins. The big con is, it's hard to keep them adjacent - particularly in chapters 2 and 3. So I wouldn't put it on par with Chulainn, Lex, or Dew... but it'd probably fit just below those.

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On 5/1/2022 at 4:50 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

So I haven't tried this one personally, but it definitely seems like one of the better pairings for Fee. Since it gives her a slightly better Strength growth, alongside the Critical skill. Ced, too, will have the same skills as Lewyn!Ced - he won't have Forseti, but he can still kill almost any foes with the Light tome. Accost is very situational whether it'll be good or bad. Plus, Erinys and Naoise have similar movement - he does better on Road tiles, they tie on Plains, and she does better everywhere else. I wouldn't call it groundbreaking, and it's worse for Ced than a magical daddy, but it looks solid enough from the outside. 

Having fell for this meme I can safely say it's not a great pairing: first, it's surprisingly complex to keep the parents togheter, in 3/4/5 Eryn usual strategies keeps her far from your main group, meaning it's har to have them build support. Second, the bases and growth don't complement the children well, as both are supposed to be speedy reliable units and Accost and Critical are far from that, they don't have enough skill to use them reliably and to top it all off this pairing is one that ends up with the worst speeds, which is a major downside. Hell, I would argue that Azelle and other Holy Blood parents are better defensively because they give better HP. All in all it's not a terrible pairing, but not one I would recommend, actually I would swap Alec for Noice, as Nihil gives both children a cool niche and his growths work better with them (though I'm sinning as I've never tried this pairing). NoicexAyra is fun, yes it's hard but it's not like LexxAyra is exactly that much smoother of a ride (they get 100 points through conversation but there's still 400 to go, not exactly fast). Also the kids, being naturally gifted in Skill and having high speed from the mother enjoy the dad skills this time around.

Edited by Quell

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The issue of movement is overstated since chapter 4 has plenty of forested terrain to slow your mounts down and often Brigid will be doing the labor against the first batch of Wind Mages. Especially if you are playing with "no pressure". 

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1 hour ago, SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre said:

The issue of movement is overstated since chapter 4 has plenty of forested terrain to slow your mounts down and often Brigid will be doing the labor against the first batch of Wind Mages. Especially if you are playing with "no pressure". 

Thanks for the feedback! Re: "no pressure", these rankings assume a "ranked run". Ergo, it's expected that the player will take steps to maximize all their rankings, including Tactics and Experience. So while we're not talking "LTC" or even "efficiency", it's not as though your army can comfortably "take its time" against some of these foes. In my experience, while units like Brigid and Jamke can have their uses in the first portion of Chapter 4, they're not doing a ton of work on any given enemy phase.

Regarding the forests - it's a fair point that it slows your mounted units down. But even in cases where a mounted unit and an infantry unit have equal "effective movement" - i.e. either one of them is able to move, say, 3 tiles - it's still better to be mounted. At least then, if you don't use your full movement, you have the option to Canto away afterward. That's something that infantry, excepting those who use the Knight Ring, simply don't have.

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46 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Thanks for the feedback! Re: "no pressure", these rankings assume a "ranked run". Ergo, it's expected that the player will take steps to maximize all their rankings, including Tactics and Experience. So while we're not talking "LTC" or even "efficiency", it's not as though your army can comfortably "take its time" against some of these foes. In my experience, while units like Brigid and Jamke can have their uses in the first portion of Chapter 4, they're not doing a ton of work on any given enemy phase.

Regarding the forests - it's a fair point that it slows your mounted units down. But even in cases where a mounted unit and an infantry unit have equal "effective movement" - i.e. either one of them is able to move, say, 3 tiles - it's still better to be mounted. At least then, if you don't use your full movement, you have the option to Canto away afterward. That's something that infantry, excepting those who use the Knight Ring, simply don't have.

My experience is that Lex usually renders himself a non-combatant come chapter 5, if not chapter 4 thanks to Elite capping his levels. Thus, by that time, you're forced to use other units to get EXP. So he can do "courtship" at will for the last two chapters.  

 

As far as my tactics go, I think I had finished chapter 3 in 13 turns once. So, I played it so fast that no Life Ring or Wind Sword was obtained. If it was for ranks, I could ease the pace by sparing a turn to have infantry kill the castle guard unit rather than feeding Sigurd everything. 

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