Microsoft just bought ActiBlizz

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 hour ago, Lord_Brand said:

Yes, you did. Hypothetical or no, you accused me of disingenuity because I offered a best-case scenario. And before you try to claim you didn't accuse anyone of anything either, by using my hypothetical scenario as an example and describing it as "the absolute height of disingenuity", you applied the term to me by proxy and therefore implicitly stated I was being disingenuous. I'm against excessive corporate buyouts, but if we HAVE to have them, I have my own personal best-case scenario. I would still rather they not happen at all, because third parties getting eaten up by first parties drastically reduces the selection of games we have for a given system unless the first parties can be bothered to play nice.

Well then I apologize that it came off that way. There were already several posts in this thread with the same behavior I was itching to complain about and I quoted the wrong person. That's my bad. Anyway, people can say what they want. It doesn't affect me, or the games that get made. 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

8 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

You can't announce you're firing another company's CEO before the deal even clears the FTC. And certainly not without potentially tanking their stock price.

Maybe not fire, but perhaps reassign? Let Bobby Kotick head up the Antarctic division.

7 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

My predictions for the next, equally large acquisition? Tencent buys Nintendo. 

Decades from now, scholars will return to this thread, wondering how you could've possibly known what would trigger World War III.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

This was about the worst news I could have seen today. I hate everything about this.

My selfish reason being that future new Crash and Spyro games are all but guaranteed to be Xbox-exclusive now. Exclusive to a system I don't have. A system I do not have the time or money for, and will not have time or money for for an indefinite period of time...as in, most of my life. And Crash and Spyro are my two all-time favorite gaming franchises. Like, no, you do not understand, and if you think you do, you don't; literally, the earliest memory I can recall of life is playing Crash in 1996. Microsoft is essentially locking me out of my two favorite franchises. And for that...fuck you, Microsoft. I hope you crash and burn.

My unselfish reason is that...jeez, these kinds of big buy-ups are inherently bad for the gaming industry. This deal is bad for the industry, and for gamers. This is legitimately bad news all around. Microsoft is doing nothing for anyone, not even themselves, this is a bad step forward.

[vanguard333]

1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

My unselfish reason is that...jeez, these kinds of big buy-ups are inherently bad for the gaming industry. This deal is bad for the industry, and for gamers. This is legitimately bad news all around. Microsoft is doing nothing for anyone, not even themselves, this is a bad step forward.

I agree; this is bad for the industry, and Microsoft isn't doing itself any long-term favours either. It's a desperate attempt by Microsoft to stay relevant after a major blow; the same mentality that led to the kinect.

Let's just hope that the deal gets blocked. …Has the deal been approved yet?

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

19 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

My selfish reason being that future new Crash and Spyro games are all but guaranteed to be Xbox-exclusive now. Exclusive to a system I don't have. A system I do not have the time or money for, and will not have time or money for for an indefinite period of time...as in, most of my life. And Crash and Spyro are my two all-time favorite gaming franchises. Like, no, you do not understand, and if you think you do, you don't; literally, the earliest memory I can recall of life is playing Crash in 1996. Microsoft is essentially locking me out of my two favorite franchises. And for that...fuck you, Microsoft. I hope you crash and burn.

You're cursing them over something they haven't even done yet. Microsoft is gonna do whatever makes them the most money. If that means "Crash and Spyro exclusive to XBox and PC", then that's what they'll do. If it instead means "Crash and Spyro on all platforms", they'll go with that instead.

My bet? These series, and most other Activision-Blizzard franchises, will start out on the XBox... and then get ported to PC, PlayStation, and Switch. That way they make their own system more attractive, while still selling as many copies of the games as possible. Oh, and they'll probably show up in Game Pass, to make that program more enticing.

Personally, I don't see mergers as inherently morally good or bad - they just are. Companies that one day dominate the gaming environment, like Atari or Sega, can find themselves fading into the background. This doesn't prevent smaller developers from doing business, or anything. From a situational perspective, I think there's potential here for Microsoft to repair the company culture at Activision-Blizzard. That could start with sending Bobby Kotick out on the horse he rode in on. But it's not something I'll hold my breath on.

[joevar]

so many hate toward microsoft has "they've done bad before, so they are sinner that cant be forgiven" mentality. while toward other company "they've given us delicacy before, surely they will keep to delight us in the future" .. cue konami, blizzard, and some other company, which is not true.

my point is, in the last decade, major company has change their CEO, and possibly their board of directors too. that includes sony nintendo microsoft etc so no guarantee those company will do exactly what they did with same-y result.

if anyone should hate microsoft for potentially locking future games in xbox and pc, nintendo should be hated too. because none of their exclusive got to other platform. heck, not even SONY do that anymore. so many sony exclusive been ported to PC (but funnily not xbox). imagine if Fire Emblem start appearing in PC,  maybe we can start seeing mods or tools to add stuff to newest Fire emblem ala GBA FE. not just randomizer. yes i hate nintendo for that. despite owned 3DS before.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

You're cursing them over something they haven't even done yet. Microsoft is gonna do whatever makes them the most money. If that means "Crash and Spyro exclusive to XBox and PC", then that's what they'll do. If it instead means "Crash and Spyro on all platforms", they'll go with that instead.

I am cursing them and I will continue to curse them, and I will not apologize for it, nor will I be shy about it. Fuck Microsoft. What did they say when they bought Bethesda? That their games would continue to be multiplatform. And how many have been? Outside of Deathloop which was already in the works and had a pre-existing deal with other consoles...none. Will Activision be any different? No. So, fuck Microsoft.

[Lord_Brand]

To amend something I said previously so as not to appear disingenuous, I'm not against any and all acquisitions/mergers, per se. I honestly wouldn't mind if Nintendo (well, a better Nintendo) acquired Capcom and SEGA. I just don't like seeing two of my childhood favorites get snapped up by a megacorp whose consoles I've never had any desire to pick up and who was in the past responsible for the death of another of my childhood favorites. But since Microsoft has been happy to put their other series on Nintendo's consoles, at least there's the hope they will with Crash and Spyro too.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Lord_Brand

[King Marth 64]

2 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I am cursing them and I will continue to curse them, and I will not apologize for it, nor will I be shy about it. Fuck Microsoft. What did they say when they bought Bethesda? That their games would continue to be multiplatform. And how many have been? Outside of Deathloop which was already in the works and had a pre-existing deal with other consoles...none. Will Activision be any different? No. So, fuck Microsoft.

You do realize that Phil Spencer did said that he's not going to take any of the pre-Microsoft Activision Blizzard titles off from the Nintendo Switch nor PlayStation consoles as well. Plus, Minecraft is also in Microsoft property and it's still in multiple consoles right now and Banjo Kazooie game is coming back in Nintendo Switch through Nintendo 64 Nintendo Switch Online, any of the future Activision Blizzard titles along with future Bethesda titles could still possibly get in multiplatform consoles. Plus, I think the reason why Microsoft bought Activision Blizzard was due to the company was getting a very toxic workplace recently and the terrible CEO was still running the place that Phil Spencer was pretty much going to fix the company up from the trouble that Bobby Kotick caused from the lawsuit the company had got in the past months.

Edited January 20, 2022 by King Marth 64

[Lord_Brand]

One slight upside to all this: we might get to see Crash and Spyro cameo in Banjo-Kazooie or vice-versa. That reminds me of a weird dream I had a long time ago about Banjo & Kazooie running into Moneybags in some Greek temple type of location.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

3 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Fuck Microsoft. What did they say when they bought Bethesda? That their games would continue to be multiplatform. And how many have been? Outside of Deathloop which was already in the works and had a pre-existing deal with other consoles...none. 

And Ghostwire when that releases later this year. Bethesda only ever said that they'll honor existing obligations to release games on the platforms they said they would. And they have in these two out of two instances. And since any "Xbox exclusive" will always release on PC as well, most people aren't really put out by this unless they exclusively game on Playstation systems for some reason. Even Game Pass is offered on PC.

As for the Crash and Spyro side of Activision, we'll just have to wait and see. The last thing we heard in 2021 was that Toys For Bob was being restructured into supporting the three Call of Duty studios, potentially spelling the end of an era. Now that Microsoft is playing a role in deciding what projects get greenlit, we may yet see both return for no other reason than to pad out their "family friendly" catalogue. A Windows only future is surely better than no future, right? And who knows, the exclusivity may just end up being timed like it already is. I waited six months for Crash 4 to come out on Switch, with some unfortunate bugs, and the wait wasn't that bad. The decision to release on all platforms is tricky because while it always equates to higher sales, it also by proxy makes those other platforms seem more valuable since they don't miss out. I just don't expect Crash and Spyro to be the sort of high stakes decision that something like Call of Duty would be. 

4 hours ago, joevar said:

so many hate toward microsoft has "they've done bad before, so they are sinner that cant be forgiven" mentality. while toward other company "they've given us delicacy before, surely they will keep to delight us in the future" .. cue konami, blizzard, and some other company, which is not true.

There's a lot of brand bias, even when people don't realize it. And I'm not saying this to put other people down, I've been simping hard for Xbox as a brand ever since they decided they want as much as feasible from their 20 year history playable (not just purchaseable, playable) on their modern systems. Just plunk in those old discs, and it not only downloads the game for free, but runs it better than the original hardware with no unfortunate bugs. I also like that Microsoft hasn't at all cracked down on people using their system as a massive emulator machine like Nintendo or Sony would with constant firmware updates. Retroarch just works on the system with no soft or hard modding required. 

And at the same time, a lot of the discussion online has been "okay, who does Sony buy in response?". I don't like Playstation anymore, and as a result I don't see myself responding positively to any similar news from them. Sony buys Square Enix? Meh, I wanted to try the DMC DNA-injected FF16 but whatever. Sony buys Sega Atlus, meh I've kind of outgrown Persona anyway. Sony buys Capcom? Don't you dare, they are in a Renaissance right now. As for Nintendo, I don't see them buying anybody because it's just not their style. They have no shortage of recognizeable IP, and decent enough working relationships with other companies to successfully farm out IPs in order to make up for their lack of manpower. Ubisoft making Mario, Koei Tecmo makes Fire Emblem and Warriors spinoffs, Mercury Steam makes Metroid, WayForward on Advance Wars, and Bandai Namco/Sakurai on Smash Bros. Their only acquisitions that I can remember are Next Level Games last year, and Monolith Soft over ten years before that. They didn't even buy AlphaDream, man that's cold. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Zapp Branniglenn

[joevar]

if someone misses the news, theres already report that says bobby will stop being ceo once ActiBliz deal been finalized

-------------------------------------

5 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

downloads the game for free, but runs it better than the original hardware with no unfortunate bugs. I also like that Microsoft hasn't at all cracked down on people using their system as a massive emulator machine like Nintendo or Sony would with constant firmware updates. Retroarch just works on the system with no soft or hard modding required. 

one of the things where sony fails to do. but many people dont want to see/admit that sony make a big mistake. on emulator related stuff, as you may already know emulator is actually grey area. because it could evade the likes of copyright strike as long as they dont make it obvious so people can play pirated game using emu. and its just unnecessary busywork to pursue it imo. (which hopefully they will keep ignoring it)

 

5 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Sony buys Capcom? Don't you dare, they are in a Renaissance right now.

yeah agreed. no one should buy capcom at this point. they've been doing great lately. if sony buy something else i wouldnt care that much. since other company that i dont want anyone to buy is Bamco, and its value already exceed half trillion USD (compared to actiblizz which is just over 50 billion USD)

[Fire Emblem Fan]

9 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

You do realize that Phil Spencer did said that he's not going to take any of the pre-Microsoft Activision Blizzard titles off from the Nintendo Switch nor PlayStation consoles as well.

Yes because somehow he's going to reach into the past and remove games. Of course I know that.

9 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

Plus, Minecraft is also in Microsoft property and it's still in multiple consoles right now

Minecraft wasn't put under the Microsoft umbrella until 2014, multiple years after it was already out, and already on other systems, namely the PS3.

9 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

Plus, I think the reason why Microsoft bought Activision Blizzard was due to the company was getting a very toxic workplace recently and the terrible CEO was still running the place that Phil Spencer was pretty much going to fix the company up from the trouble that Bobby Kotick caused from the lawsuit the company had got in the past months.

Trade in one horrible Bobby Kotick accused of toxicity, sexual harassment, and known associate of a pedophile for another horrible Phil Spencer accused of toxicity, sexual harassment, and known associate of a pedophile. Love that positive change in the higher-ups gaming world, yep.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Fire Emblem Fan

[Lord_Brand]

At least now Microsoft has the franchise count to make their own Smash clone, for whatever that's worth. Though I'm not exactly chomping at the bit to buy such a game, I am curious about what kind of roster we could see if that happens.

[Fabulously Olivier]

9 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

At least now Microsoft has the franchise count to make their own Smash clone, for whatever that's worth. Though I'm not exactly chomping at the bit to buy such a game, I am curious about what kind of roster we could see if that happens.

Knowing Microsoft, their crossover game would be a first person shooter.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

3 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Trade in one horrible Bobby Kotick accused of toxicity, sexual harassment, and known associate of a pedophile for another horrible Phil Spencer accused of toxicity, sexual harassment, and known associate of a pedophile. Love that positive change in the higher-ups gaming world, yep.

You can't just make casual, evidence-less accusations of a person like that. This isn't the...oh. I guess it IS the internet. 

30 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

At least now Microsoft has the franchise count to make their own Smash clone, for whatever that's worth. Though I'm not exactly chomping at the bit to buy such a game, I am curious about what kind of roster we could see if that happens.

Ew, why downgrade to a Smash clone when you already have Killer Instinct? It's like suggesting Capcom make a Smash Clone when they already have existing crossovers with unique gameplay systems. Killer Instinct did the guest character thing in Season 3, despite having the budget of an indie game (literally was part of the Xbox Live Arcade catalogue when that still existed). 

Like, I'm not sure I WANT people to associate a very good fighting game with its crossover elements, but I know that rosters sell fighting games. And Killer Instinct's roster was always so (intentionally) outlandish that when they did add three guest characters, they looked pretty tame and "normal" despite no change to their character design. I'm skeptical you could get the same effect out of Banjo or Spyro, but it's hard not to draft new dream rosters every time Microsoft buys more IP. I got actual chills when Maximillian Dood said the words "Rash versus Crash?" on stream the day this news dropped. DOOM Guy looks like he's already had run ins with series villains Gargos and Eyedol. And I think Joanna Dark is probably the only Rare character I'd give up Rash for.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Zapp Branniglenn

[Lord_Brand]

44 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Ew, why downgrade to a Smash clone when you already have Killer Instinct? It's like suggesting Capcom make a Smash Clone when they already have existing crossovers with unique gameplay systems. Killer Instinct did the guest character thing in Season 3, despite having the budget of an indie game (literally was part of the Xbox Live Arcade catalogue when that still existed). 

Like, I'm not sure I WANT people to associate a very good fighting game with its crossover elements, but I know that rosters sell fighting games. And Killer Instinct's roster was always so (intentionally) outlandish that when they did add three guest characters, they looked pretty tame and "normal" despite no change to their character design. I'm skeptical you could get the same effect out of Banjo or Spyro, but it's hard not to draft new dream rosters every time Microsoft buys more IP. I got actual chills when Maximillian Dood said the words "Rash versus Crash?" on stream the day this news dropped. DOOM Guy looks like he's already had run ins with series villains Gargos and Eyedol. And I think Joanna Dark is probably the only Rare character I'd give up Rash for.

Well considering how popular and successful, not to mention fun, Smash is, I'd argue it isn't a downgrade at all. When you have Nickelodeon and Warner Bros. putting out their own Smash clones (and the later actually doing something interesting and novel with theirs, no less), not to mention two of Microsoft's own IPs having a Smash presence in the form of Banjo & Kazooie and Steve, it'd a big waste of an opportunity for Microsoft not to jump on the bandwagon. What better way for them to celebrate acquiring the world's third-biggest third party publisher than to flex all those newly-acquired IPs in a roster to rival SSBU?

If nothing else, I'm trying to have as much fun with this development as I can, and being that I'm a Smash fan and not a Killer Instinct fan, theorycrafting "MicroSmash" is the best way for me to do so.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

12 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

Well considering how popular and successful, not to mention fun, Smash is, I'd argue it isn't a downgrade at all. When you have Nickelodeon and Warner Bros. putting out their own Smash clones (and the later actually doing something interesting and novel with theirs, no less)

People would have said the nickelodeon thing was "interesting and novel" until we saw more of it in action. The one improvement I see in the scooby doo one is that characters make noises and actually speak. Bravo, bare minimum achieved. Gameplay didn't look particularly promising to me at least. Is it running in 12 FPS because it's an early build or will the game actually play that slowly?

Quote

If nothing else, I'm trying to have as much fun with this development as I can, and being that I'm a Smash fan and not a Killer Instinct fan, theorycrafting "MicroSmash" is the best way for me to do so.

That's something I encourage you to fix. I can at least vouch that I became a much cooler person once I became a fan of both.

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

You can't just make casual, evidence-less accusations of a person like that. This isn't the...oh. I guess it IS the internet. 

Ew, why downgrade to a Smash clone when you already have Killer Instinct? It's like suggesting Capcom make a Smash Clone when they already have existing crossovers with unique gameplay systems. Killer Instinct did the guest character thing in Season 3, despite having the budget of an indie game (literally was part of the Xbox Live Arcade catalogue when that still existed). 

Like, I'm not sure I WANT people to associate a very good fighting game with its crossover elements, but I know that rosters sell fighting games. And Killer Instinct's roster was always so (intentionally) outlandish that when they did add three guest characters, they looked pretty tame and "normal" despite no change to their character design. I'm skeptical you could get the same effect out of Banjo or Spyro, but it's hard not to draft new dream rosters every time Microsoft buys more IP. I got actual chills when Maximillian Dood said the words "Rash versus Crash?" on stream the day this news dropped. DOOM Guy looks like he's already had run ins with series villains Gargos and Eyedol. And I think Joanna Dark is probably the only Rare character I'd give up Rash for.

What a weird thing to say. Smash is NOT a downgrade from Killer Instinct. And the existence of Killer Instinct is exactly why a platform fighter might be an ideal accompaniment for their crossover.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

14 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

What a weird thing to say. Smash is NOT a downgrade from Killer Instinct.

Smash Bros isn't. A Smash CLONE is. Maybe when somebody "says something weird", give it another read to see if you misinterpreted it like this. Even Playstation All Stars rewrote the book on what a Smash Bros game plays like. It wasn't a very good book, but they tried. The Actual Smash Bros series was never the perfect version of itself. Always compromised by poor design choices or the hardware. Any discussion of making "the perfect smash clone" starts with the gameplay alterations, not the roster. The roster will work itself out. 

 

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 minute ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Smash Bros isn't. A Smash CLONE is. Maybe when somebody "says something weird", give it another read to see if you misinterpreted it like this. Even Playstation All Stars rewrote the book on what a Smash Bros game plays like. It wasn't a very good book, but they tried. The Actual Smash Bros series was never the perfect version of itself. Always compromised by poor design choices or the hardware. Any discussion of making "the perfect smash clone" starts with the gameplay alterations, not the roster. The roster will work itself out. 

 

Okay, here's a few things to consider.

 

Being in the same genre isn't a problem. We could use more platform fighters, and stigmatizing them as clones is neither fair nor healthy for the genre.

 

Two, most of us are neither professionals nor game designers. We don't give two shits about mechanics and aren't qualified to speculate on them. That's the part that professional paid developers are hired to work out.

 

Three, rosters are the most exciting thing to discuss in most such games, period. It's more fun than debating frame data or the merits of wavedashing, sorry.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

32 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Being in the same genre isn't a problem. We could use more platform fighters, and stigmatizing them as clones is neither fair nor healthy for the genre.

Fair, but take it up with the first guy to say "smash clone" and then proceeded to put in in his new thread's title. Because that's what I was responding to. "Platform fighter" indeed would have changed my first blush reaction. I still expect I would have brought up Killer Instinct as the alternative though because that's the kind of guy I am.

Quote

Two, most of us are neither professionals nor game designers. We don't give two shits about mechanics and aren't qualified to speculate on them. That's the part that professional paid developers are hired to work out.

Speak for yourself. I've been playing Smash since Smash came into existence. I don't care if somebody else calls me "qualified" or not. I've got opinions on how the series has evolved and I'm gonna talk about it if I feel like it. 

32 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Three, rosters are the most exciting thing to discuss in most such games, period. It's more fun than debating frame data or the merits of wavedashing, sorry.

Again, speak for yourself. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Zapp Branniglenn

[Fabulously Olivier]

5 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Fair, but take it up with the first guy to say "smash clone" and then proceeded to put in in his new thread's title. Because that's what I was responding to. "Platform fighter" indeed would have changed my first blush reaction. 

Speak for yourself. I've been playing Smash since Smash came into existence. I don't care if somebody else calls me "qualified" or not. I've got opinions on how the series has evolved and I'm gonna talk about it if I feel like it. 

Again, speak for yourself. 

I am speaking for myself. And a majority of the casual audience. People who have more than the most basic knowledge of mechanics are in the minority on this subject. Most posters MIGHT have very rudimentary, broad strokes concepts for how these games might differentiate themselves, and we don't need to develop them further in order to share our excitement for them. Because, again, we're not the ones being paid to do so.

 

It's enough for a bunch of people to say "I want Smash but superheroes, fam" for the execs to see that. We don't have to design it for them too.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Fabulously Olivier

[Tryhard]

Are people just upset over the fact that the landscape of video gaming is becoming more entrenched in the arms race of acquiring exclusives for their platform? Or is actually because they might make some games you want to play for something you don't want to own?

As someone who actually plays Activision-Blizzard games currently, I can tell you the feeling from the fanbase is that it can't be any worse. For people who want to see (mostly Blizzards) franchises flourish, this is actually good news. Because the decisions they are making currently are so atrocious that it has gotten to that point. Although I will say that this acquisition isn't finalised until July 2023 so nothing in the immediate future will change at Activision-Blizzard.

Microsoft seem to be making it a recent habit of acquiring disgraced studios in order to try and turn them around. It's not really going badly for them, and I don't even like Microsoft. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Tryhard

[Lord_Brand]

1 hour ago, Tryhard said:

Are people just upset over the fact that the landscape of video gaming is becoming more entrenched in the arms race of acquiring exclusives for their platform? Or is actually because they might make some games you want to play for something you don't want to own?

A little of both, in my case.

But honestly, my brother and I have been leaning towards just making "spiritual successors" of our favorite games and series for years now. If Crash and Spyro end up going downhill again, we'll just come up with our own platform mascots that can give us the same kind of fix like we're doing for Banjo-Kazooie.