A Hero Rises 2022 - discussion

[UNLEASH IT]

18 minutes ago, Yexin said:

hey, can you feel it?
inhales
mmmh, yes, it's the smell of Democracy, which lets us know that the A Hero Rises event midterm results are here, and of course people can't but give a regular pool version of Edelgard an unnecessarily solid chance of winning, even though it's almost a one year-old unit, the game's full of counters and, truth be told, she's never been THAT unstoppable to begin with

 

back being serious if only, the only legitimally good picks here are LSigurd, Ninja Corrin, Athari Azura and NY Dagr
i understand Elimine, people are doing with her literally the same thing they did with Seiros last year
what my brain fails to fathom is Eitri: are people really that lazy that they just vote for the most tapped hero on the green pool and don't scoll down the screen? i refuse to consider these creatures as anything more than amoebas if anyone reading this actively voted for Eitri because you legitimally want her to win, please don't take what i said as an offense
and then, Edelgard... i'll just refrain from expressing what i think any more than i already did, it really doesn't deserve more of my already short time on this planet

tl;dr please let LSigurd win

Eitri is a legendary hero with Canto,  I'm  not surprised she's there.

[Othin]

Guess I'll stop voting Leif, he's not going anywhere.

Edelgard is obnoxious but the rest of the top 10 is elemental or duo heroes I don't have yet, so I'd be happy with any of them. Ideally color-sharing green as much as possible, so I'm switching my vote to Thorr.

[Yexin]

1 hour ago, UNLEASH IT said:

Eitri is a legendary hero with Canto,  I'm  not surprised she's there.

i get some people might see some potential in this, but since i don't play AR (i guess this is what it's good at), i can't really share the sentiment

[Diovani Bressan]

3 hours ago, Alexmender said:

I know the casual players regard Fallen Edelgard as the most powerful unit in the entire game, but in reality she's nowhere near as good nowadays.

I kinda disagree, since I use her in every AR Season and she still does amazing there. Yes, every month IS releases a new counter to her, and maybe smiting Edelgard into the enemy team and watch them die is not a viable option anymore, but she still break them if you know how to use her.

But with that said... I wouldn't mind if she wasn't there.

@Yexin About Eitri...

Yeah, I can't deny that having botted taps probably made people vote for her, but I see Eitri as great Legendary Hero. 

She is very strong, especial considering that with her base kit she inflict Atk/Res-14 on foe during combat. So she hits hard and takes less damage on the counterattack, mostly because of her damage reduction. Like Chrom, you can make her a speedy unit, and she can reach 40 Spd during combat on her own if you give her Spd boon and a Spd Rein, and having guaranteed follow-up and high Spd helps her pass though Wary effects. Canto helps with position, and to snipe a foe and retreat. And she is a good unit to have in Fire Season in AR, and she is very good in Duels, for players that care about that mode.

I am not saying she is amazing or and the best unit in the game, but I can understand why she is there on the top 8. Botted taps influenced people, for sure, but I still think she deserves her spot there.

And don't worry... I was not offended with your opinion.

[Othin]

1 hour ago, Yexin said:

i get some people might see some potential in this, but since i don't play AR (i guess this is what it's good at), i can't really share the sentiment

Canto is great everywhere. (Except Pawns and Rokkr, I guess.) Outside of AR there isn't as much need for good abilities in general, but that applies to every other powerful skill as well.

[Naoshi]

From 1 to 12 I got all them expect for NY!Dagr so I will start voting for her so she stays on top 8 and if she manages to be free unit, I can skip AHR banner, wow.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Naoshi

[Morgan--Grandmaster]

5 hours ago, LoneStar said:

Azura it is (4x), I guess.

[EricaofRenais]

Well I will be going with L!Sigurd for the rest of my votes.  Can we please kick F!Edelgard out of the VG first round because I don't want her on the banner.

[XRay]

6 hours ago, Florete said:

She's not good because you don't use her?

Wow, LSigurd must suck, I don't use him at all.

I do not think she is bad, but I think she is way overhyped and way overrated. Similarly, I think Sigurd: Fated Holy Knight is overhyped too, although to a lesser degree. Edelgard: Hegemon Husk got some glaring issues. As a Save tank, the only relevant support she can actually work with is Nifl, since she is the only dragon/beast unit that provides damage reduction. On defense, she is no more annoying than any other top tier armor unit for the purpose of stalling, and stalling as a competitive strategy only works against the greenest of players. In my opinion, her greatest asset is in her ability to Galeforce twice in auto battle to speed things up and to wall off PvE content, where her bulk and regneration is not going to get overwhelmed by modern nukes.

We got Firesweep Bow/Flash and Dazzling Staff/Wrathful Staff a few months after the game was launched, so we have always had the tools to deal with problematic low-to-medium mobility units almost right from the beginning.

We also got a tank buster in the form of Dimitri: Savage Boar that hard counters her, released right alongside her on the same Focus, and it seemed like people who complain about her choose to ignore him and say we do not have the tools to deal with her. We also got quite a few tank busters over the years: F!Byleth, M!Byleth, Mareeta, Fir: Student of Spring, Byleth: Fell Star's Duo, Courtly Fan, Selena: Flourspar, and finally Claude: King of Unification and Ingrid who were released just a few months before her. Tank buster options have also exploded since her release, with Karla and Ryoma being super buffed with their Refines on the next update right after. Intelligent Systems basically babied us to the point of making Alm: Imperial Ascent being able to shit on every slow bulky tank in existence, and that continues to this day where at least half the nukes with an exclusive Weapon can do something similar.

And that is just the player phase side of things. Super tanks with the right investment should not even have issues with her, as super tanks should have Pulse Smoke on the C slot from ages ago all the way back when Infantry Pulse teams were a thing. Save tanks are a complete no brainer since you do not even have to worry about being flanked, which makes her mobility and Galeforce pointless. Boey also exists, and the only premium skill he needs is just Pulse Smoke.

Edelgard: Hegemon Husk on defense is about as relevant in today's meta as Infantry Pulse is. On offense, she is about as bad as Counter-Vantage units in my opinion, as most teams just are not that susceptible to a lone unit deep in enemy territory these days.

Edited February 4, 2022 by XRay

[Tybrosion]

Oh wow, the Abomination is first. What an unexpected turn of events. 

Obvious sarcasm aside, I guess I'll be devoting myself to fighting Edelgard in the VG since I have everyone else in top 8 (except Elimine, but I should be able to scrounge up enough orbs to spark her in time). It's rather unlikely anyone else I don't have will make it into the VG (Ascended Fjorm is the closest one).

[Xenomata]

I'd say I was surprised, but that would require me to not be emotionally dead. I literally just did an AR-O run that fielded two Hegemons...

On the more positive side, the 7 other heroes are not disappointing to me. I think I'll throw a vote to LegM!Byleth tonight, since I don't have him. Besides, if people really like Hegemon that much they should know to be getting counters to her...

Honestly most surprising is that no Ascended heroes are top 8. I don't mind, I have every current AH ergo gain nothing but a free hero, but they seemed a guaranteed thing for AHR...

Edited February 4, 2022 by Xenomata

[Othin]

16 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Honestly most surprising is that no Ascended heroes are top 8. I don't mind, I have every current AH ergo gain nothing but a free hero, but they seemed a guaranteed thing for AHR...

Probably because they're regular-pool heroes not named Edelgard.

[Sasori]

I already knew Fedelgard would win this. I don't mind her fodder which is good because I have no intention of ever touching that unit. I already see her enough as is.

I don't doubt it when people say that Federgard became much less of a problem in higher level play. But as a non high level player my problems with her are still very much present. My problem isn't that Fedelgard has no counters. My problem is that someone that can't counter Fedelgard can't do anything.You already lost that match You can't initiate because LOL instant bondire+Dmg reduction +atk debuff + Warry fighter+ self healing. And you can't bait because LOL double/tripple actions + atk debuff and still auto healing. You can't even work on your specials because she has guard build in.

It feels very very unsastisfying when you run into a Fedelgard without a counter. I have my counters like Boey and even the Fmorgans do in a pinch, but I hate having to constantly drag them in just so I don't auto lose when trying to get my rewards

Edited February 4, 2022 by Sasori

[Ice Dragon]

Five of the top eight I could use an extra merge on, so I hope one of them wins (Eitri, Elimine, and Dagr I already have fully merged, and I don't need any of their fodder). I don't really care who will be on the banner because I probably won't be pulling other than for the spark.

Still not going to change who I vote for, though.

I'm a bit surprised Harmonized Lysithea isn't even in the top 20. though I assume it's because you have to scroll down to find her.

 

4 hours ago, Yexin said:

i get some people might see some potential in this, but since i don't play AR (i guess this is what it's good at), i can't really share the sentiment

Eitri is a solid unit in Arena, too, as a Fire Legendary Hero with a 185 Duel effect, good bulk, and Canto.

With some Def investment, she can also one-round kill Fallen Edelgard. My +10+0 Eitri with her base kit survives with 1 HP against a +10+10 Fallen Edelgard when Eitri has the Atk/Def Solo Sacred Seal equipped and neither unit has buffs or debuffs of any kind. A +0+0 Eitri should be able to pull this off by switching her A skill to something that grants Def, matching Edelgard's buffs, and debuffing Edelgard's Atk.

[Tybrosion]

14 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm a bit surprised Harmonized Lysithea isn't even in the top 20. though I assume it's because you have to scroll down to find her.

I would suggest that the reason for their absence is because their banner had three sparks available to anyone.

But then that reason gets instantly shot down when you remember that anyone could've sparked for the current 1st place unit just a month ago (literally, the Forces of Will re-run was still up on January 4th).

[Roflolxp54]

It's probably a bunch of Edelgard simps fans mass voting her Fallen variant into first place just so they could get a free merge (and another guaranteed merge from the AHR banner); we did get CYL Edelgard in top 8 last year despite being a free gift AND a sparkable unit.

It's annoying but counters for Edelgard do exist, including low-cost ones -- CYL Eirika is a very common pick for the CYL5 units and Blazing AoE Lilina with Windsweep is about as cheap as you can get. Unfortunately, problems either range from players needing fodder more, needing feathers, having team slot syndrome, or couldn't think beyond using the newest, premium units.

 

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Sasori said:

It feels very very unsastisfying when you run into a Fedelgard without a counter. I have my counters like Boey and even the Fmorgans do in a pinch, but I hate having to constantly drag them in just so I don't auto lose when trying to get my rewards

But players should have plenty of counters and solutions by now. Just as every player should invest in regular nukes, Galeforcers, super tanks, support, etc., players should also invest in Firesweepers and tank busters.

Players should be investing in two super tanks for Aether Raids anyways, one for each season, and you can port them over to Arena Assault. Aether Raids styled super/Save tank teams are nigh unbreakable against the uncoordinated mad rush of Arena Assault defense teams, so that is two matches down that are almost guarantee wins no matter what the defense team use, whether it is Edelgard: Hegemon Husk or Líf: Undying Ties Duo. Est will straight up murder any armor unit not wearing Svalinn Shield and is even cheaper than Boey to build, so that is another two matches covered using those two. With loads of premium tank busters these days, players who have been playing a while should have at least one of them, and that covers another match. And with the last two remaining matches, you can just fish for defense teams without Edelgard: Hegemon Husk for the first two matches, and you are basically set for the rest of the run.

For Arena, Edelgard: Hegemon Husk is no more difficult to handle my opinion compared to other top armor units. Hector: Brave Warrior is a bigger pain in the ass to deal with since he is unaffected by armor effective Weapons. Edelgard: Adrestian Emperor can teleport out of nowhere and slam into you if you are not paying attention, and she is a common Save tank too with built in damage reduction. But if you are not trying to rank super high, then you can use literally anyone you want, so none of those bulky armor units even matter since you just need one tank buster to blow them all away, and they do not even need to be highly merged to work either. CYL tank busters are the most effective for the cost in my opinion, and Alm: Imperial Ascent in particular will wreck any slow tank.

Edited February 4, 2022 by XRay

[Florete]

4 hours ago, XRay said:

Edelgard: Hegemon Husk on defense is about as relevant in today's meta as Infantry Pulse is. On offense, she is about as bad as Counter-Vantage units in my opinion, as most teams just are not that susceptible to a lone unit deep in enemy territory these days.

Defense, sure, but Hegemon Edelgard has been the ace of my Light season basically since her release and I haven't had an imperfect AR-O week in months, usually in the vault. She's incredibly versatile if you have the right support and most of her supposed 'counters' either die on retaliation or initiation.

The way I see it is that she's overrated by lower level, casual players, who see her as this unkillable wall, but underrated by higher level players, who think a few units that can counter an unmerged, unsupported Hegemon is enough to say the unit isn't good anymore. Both are wrong.

[Sunwoo]

Oh, for fucking sake

What is it about this game and Edelgard fans

They didn't even vote for the less available Edelgard last year

[Tybrosion]

41 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

They didn't even vote for the less available Edelgard last year

Nah, they voted for Legendary last year too. She just happened to get booted out of 8th (where she was at the midterms) by Micaiah & Sothe.

L!Edelgard only had about 2,000 less votes than B!Edelgard did and about 1,000 less than Micaiah & Sothe.

[Lemmy]

two favorites are in 9th and 10th place ...

[Naoshi]

Analysis video, which heroes actually benefit from AHR banner.

I guess I'm voting now for Thorr.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Naoshi

[Fire Emblem Fan]

One of the wallpapers I wanted to grab was for Legendary Sigurd, so, hey, I guess I am contributing a little bit after all!

[Lemmy]

Decided to give remaining votes to Thorr, I’m hoping we end up with a 4 green banner

[XRay]

On 2/4/2022 at 1:32 PM, Florete said:

The way I see it is that she's overrated by lower level, casual players, who see her as this unkillable wall, but underrated by higher level players, who think a few units that can counter an unmerged, unsupported Hegemon is enough to say the unit isn't good anymore. Both are wrong.

After thinking about it a bit more, I do not think higher level players underrate her because a few units can counter an unmerged, unsupported Edelgard: Hegemon Husk.

It is not just a few units shutting down a max-invested and fully-supported Edelgard: Hegemon Husk, as even the best super tank and save tank teams will not work against every team, it is the combination of factors that make her much less attractive compared to her competition:
1. Galeforce: In a Galeforce team, a more traditional Galeforcer is much easier to use and set up. And if we consider other premium options, Leif: Destined Scion is not only cheaper to use since he is best left unmerged, he has the best mobility and range out of all Galeforcers and the best reliability out of all the ranged Galeforcers, giving the player lots of leeway for mistakes. If you have enough Dancers/Singers to nuke the whole defense team and get Aether Structures in one turn, then you do not need to worry about leaving a Galeforcer in the middle of enemy range since they will all be dead.
2. Super Tank: Being an armor and beast unit means that she has to jump through extra hoops to fix her mobility and work around transformation requirements. It is just far easier to use Yen'fay and stick Lucina: Brave Princess or Flayn behind him, and he is much cheaper to build too since he costs Grails instead of Orbs. And her competition not being armored also helps.
3. Super & Save Tank: As a Save tank for a super tank, other Save tanks are just easier to use without transformation requirements. And her competition is often cheaper and more effective too, as Arden costs Grails and Hector: Brave Warrior has cheaper merges.
4. Double Save Tank: I do not see her working well as a Save tank due to their best support units being staff units, and the strategy requires close contact with those units in a tight formation. And also cheaper and more effective options exist as mentioned above.

In my opinion, the main place where she truly shines is in auto-battle for repetitive but easy modes, like Temepst Trials and Heroes Journey, since foes do not have enough fire power to overwhelm her bulk and regeneration.

Edited February 7, 2022 by XRay