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Jotari's Three Houses fix


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14 hours ago, wissenschaft said:

*Looks at IRL history. Yeah 290 years is nothing compared to a grudge between nations. Also, fixing the story to make it more compelling means changing characters in the game. So while it might not make sense with how the game is now it just means that changes need to be made to the characters. Right now, Dimitri and Claude get along so well that the 3 way battle makes zero sense. But the idea of the 3 way battle is very cool there just needed to be proper set up for it. One idea is to make either DImitri or Claude less goodie toe shoe towards each other. I'd been happy if Claude revealed he was going to back stab the Kingdom just to ensure the Leicester Alliance's independence. That would require proper set up since it wouldn't work right now with how good guy Claude is in the game as is.

Fixing the story doesn't mean you need to make drastic changes in character from the base game either. If you want a three-way battle, Edelgard and Hubert instigating the battle through means such as disguising a contingent of Empire soldiers as the Kingdom and attacking the Alliance, rather than changing the great dynamic between Dimitri and Claude, can achieve that. Hell, you could have a Cornelia-like triple agent stir up trouble in the Alliance, who supposedly works under the Kingdom as a spy, but is actually a part of the Empire/Agarthans all the while.

 

Making Dimitri prejudiced against the Alliance, I'd argue, is not a compelling change, unless you want to undo the entirety of Duscur, which entirely shaped his worldview regarding race and 'outsiders'.

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6 minutes ago, ThePrimeOne said:

Fixing the story doesn't mean you need to make drastic changes in character from the base game either. If you want a three-way battle, Edelgard and Hubert instigating the battle through means such as disguising a contingent of Empire soldiers as the Kingdom and attacking the Alliance, rather than changing the great dynamic between Dimitri and Claude, can achieve that. Hell, you could have a Cornelia-like triple agent stir up trouble in the Alliance, who supposedly works under the Kingdom as a spy, but is actually a part of the Empire/Agarthans all the while.

 

Making Dimitri prejudiced against the Alliance, I'd argue, is not a compelling change, unless you want to undo the entirety of Duscur, which entirely shaped his worldview regarding race and 'outsiders'.

I'd agree with that. I'm not against making Dimitri less of a goodie two shoe but I do agree changing his character is not necessary for fixing Grondor. Its just a personal preference for the lords to hold more bigoted views because it would make Claudes quest for a less racist world have some more impact. As it is now, it feels kind of hollow since theres just very little racism. Dimitri has a Duscur man as his #1 and Edelgard respects Petra.

Edited by wissenschaft
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2 hours ago, wissenschaft said:

You can't give a minister position to people who refuse to take the position and leave politics all together. Caspar likely got the position because 1) Eldelgard knows first hand his combat and command ability and so knows hes qualified. 2) hes actually willing to take the job when many of her classmates seem to just retire right after the war or have personal business to take care of. 3) Edelgard would not have personal experience with anyone outside her classmates and therefore she wouldn't be able to check her merit based tests on them do to lack of knowledge.

What you're describing here isn't a meritocratic system, though. An important part of any meritocratic system is that people have the chance to prove themselves. If the only way to prove yourself is to personally know the Emperor, then that's far closer to nepotism than meritocracy.

2 hours ago, wissenschaft said:

It just feels like a big strech to say that Caspar is unqualified and I don't buy that his ending should be ignored because he wasn't fighting any really worthy opponents. Thats just negative speculation with a bias looking to confirm the premise that Caspar didn't earn the job. Is Caspar perfect for the Job? No. Is he worthy of the job, yes. Caspar not being perfect for the Job doesn't mean hes not qualified or that this is nepotism. His ending implies he grows into the position just fine and does an excellent job. I'm willing to take that ending at face value. 

My perspective is that his character ending is a single line of text which seems to go against what we see of Caspar for the entire rest of the game. For me, the big stretch would be to have that one line completely undo everything else that it seems to contradict.

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10 minutes ago, lenticular said:

What you're describing here isn't a meritocratic system, though. An important part of any meritocratic system is that people have the chance to prove themselves. If the only way to prove yourself is to personally know the Emperor, then that's far closer to nepotism than meritocracy.

Thats not at all what I meant to imply. But you seem very fixed on viewing Caspar as not worthy of the position so eh. I'll just leave this at that. We are not going to see eye to eye on this.

Edited by wissenschaft
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Hi - I really like your ideas and agree with most of the issues (dont want to call them problems because it makes sound as if Three houses is a bad game, which it certainly is not). But I see some gameplay issues .....

 

White Clouds:

I find the idea of having Byleth as a personal tutor at first and only a proper professor after Jeritzas Betrayal quite cool and fitting. Both from a story perspective (making the rise from nobody to professor a little bit more believable) and for gameplay purposes (as you can actuall try out the units you want to have control over). I just think that two rounds of introductions are a little bit much. Considering that if you already have a favourite house, you would spend entire 4 chapters with units you dont want/care about. Also one of the most important gameplay loops - continously upgrading your units in the lectures, will be shifted quite backwards if for the first 6 chapters you always have an entire new cast. I would suggest only one round of "introduction chapters"

I agree that Mutiny in the Mist and Godesses Rite of Rebirth serve perfectly as the introduction chapter for Blue lions and Black Eagels- as their themes nicely foreshadow azure moon and crimsom flower. Unfortunately Golden Deers do not have that kind of fit in the first chapters. We could simply give them Familiar Scenery, because it happens story-wise at that time, but it does not really reflect what verdant brink or Claude is all about. While the chapter you created would also meet the requirements quite well.... we already have a chapter ingame that would also work perfectly..... namely the Paralogue Sword and Shield of Seiros. While in this chapter the almyrans do not appear by themselves, it shows their impact on the people including the prejudice and fear the folans have against them. So I would suggest to swap this paralogue with the the second mission. So that the first task of new tutor with the students is something mundane in Deirdru which then escalates with the unexpected arrival of pirates, while the hunt after Bandits is given to Shamir&Alois. The order then would be:

Prologue: An Inevitable Encounter (Three Lords)

Chapter 1: Three Houses

Chapter 1: Sword and Shield of Seiros (Golden Deers, will need a new name)

Chapter 2: Mutiny in the Mists (Blue Lions)

Chapter 3: The Godesses Rite of Rebirth (Black Eagles)

Chapter 4: Rumors of a Reaper (Choose a House) - The logic then would be that with Flayn disappearing the houses would work together, instead of Manuela Hanneman will gets knocked out, forcing Manuela to stay in the infirmary and heal him. With all three professors busy/gone, you as the combat tutor will have the task the pick a house and lead them to battle..... which then becomes your house ....

Afterwards the story could continue with Tower of Black Winds and then the normal sequence. But I personally would already like here if Chapter 5 at this point would be something quite specific to the house you have choosen like e.g.

Chapter 5a - Tower of Black Winds (if Blue Lions were choosen)

Chapter 5b - Almyran Cannon (I like the idea ... also would be quite the interesting boss, if Golden Dear was choosen)

Chapter 5c - Something in the Empire (if Black Eagles were chosen)

Chapter 6: Field of the Eagle and Lion

...

That would mean that White Clouds is a Chapter short but would have more replayabillity as there are unique chapters quite early on. Of course there is also the issue with Familiar Scenary beeing a paralogue that people might miss the introduction of the the Flame Emperor, but I think that can be solved by an additional Cutscene after Chapter 3 or 4 where the character is properly introduced.

 

Crimson Flower

I like the central ideas about giving Edelgard a tough time and letting her use the demonic beast to win the war. I also feel the biggest issue with this route is that you steamroll your enemies without any kind of trouble ..... balancing morality and power/efficiency would fit quite nicely in this route imo and it would cement its more grey nature. I just dont like that in this version everything would be solved while the other routes have issues left. If there isnt a golden route - which I would prefer if there is, but wide consensus seems to be that there should not be one - all decisions should lead to endings that have pros and cons. Or all paths should lead to a golden future ....

So I would suggest that each path concentrate on one core issue. In case of Crimson Flower that would be the Church and the crest System. Which is fitting with Rhea as the last Boss. The Agarthians could be dealt a major blow on the way, but getting completly rid of them should be the honor of a different path.

 

Silver Snow

Rhea as a Lord is certainly a must here. I would not agree about the students betraying you all. While I see the story impact behind it, from a gameplay perspective that would be horrible. Exspecially for people that do this on their first run. Also giving it the Nemesis-Fight and an closure over the agarthian situation would give fit nicely in this path..... but to be honest ..... it would need a sincerly redesign from the ground up and considering the ressources necessary for this ..... I would simply remove this path in its entirety and allocate the free ressources and story beats to flesh out the paths of the three lords (which should be the main focus of the game to begin with).

Of course that does not mean that people that picked Black Eagles are forced to join Edelgard (that path should remain more grey after all) but instead of siding with the church an reliving most of verdant wind (without Claude) I would give the player the option to either join forces with the Kingdom or Alliance. Then the Player would directly go over to Azure Moon or Verdant Winds. In this case the Lords plus retainer would replace Edelgard and Hubert and you would continue that story-line. For most cutscenes we would get away with as they focus on Byleth and the Lord only the in-engine ones and obviously the dialogue would need to be adjusted to include Black Eagle students. I would prefer a playable Rhea (maybe even with playable Sothis?) but it would require a lot of work...... and sometimes less is more...... it also would have been a nice idea for a dlc pack (Where we got certainly not enough from ...)

 

Azure Moon

Azure Moon is quite fine I think. I like your idea of Dimitri having a mad rush towards enbarr and failing there to come back to his senses. But I would keep Rodrigues Death at Gronder as the turning point, it fits thematically more. But the idea with him attacking first the Fort is also quite promising. You could include the story of having an insane commander quite nicely in gameplay by attacking unlimited amounts of enemies in defensive positions until someone can convice your stupid leader to sound the retreat (together with many heroic green units to sacrifice of course).

In the case that Silver Snow gets scraped this route can get the church storyline concerning Byleths origins (as it is a character-driven route to begin with) and the more church-friedly story beats of Silver Snow. Considering the Church and Kindom were quite close.

Main Enemy would still be the empire. With Edelgard as the last boss.

 

Verdant Wind

I kinda like our your first three chapters and Evil Dimitri as a Chapter Boss  ..... but I would not include the marriage proposal ..... that would be quite weird for people that are trying to S-Rank Claude with Byleth. Maybe instead let Evil Dimitri be a part of this version of Gonder-Fields Storywise it could be explained that the Agarthians thought Edelgard was a little bit to sucessful and has outlived her usefulness (considering most of fodlan is in their graspes now and the alliance seemed weak and disunited). So they already plan for her retirement. He could even reappear (now fully corrupted by Agarthan Tech) in the chapter where you beat Edelgard instead of Dedue. Giving Claude a nice reminder of what the Agartians are capable of.......  If Silver Snow is gone, the problem with the two paths beeing to similiar would also no longer exist ^^.....

Anyways, the last battle against Nemesis and the 10 elites are quite thematic fitting to the route. As they represent the past of fodlan that needs to be overcomed for it to turn towards future. A little bit more forshadowing would be nice , as that chapter comes quite unexpected.

 

Edited by Nihilem
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49 minutes ago, Nihilem said:

Hi - I really like your ideas and agree with most of the issues (dont want to call them problems because it makes sound as if Three houses is a bad game, which it certainly is not). But I see some gameplay issues .....

 

White Clouds:

I find the idea of having Byleth as a personal tutor at first and only a proper professor after Jeritzas Betrayal quite cool and fitting. Both from a story perspective (making the rise from nobody to professor a little bit more believable) and for gameplay purposes (as you can actuall try out the units you want to have control over). I just think that two rounds of introductions are a little bit much. Considering that if you already have a favourite house, you would spend entire 4 chapters with units you dont want/care about. Also one of the most important gameplay loops - continously upgrading your units in the lectures, will be shifted quite backwards if for the first 6 chapters you always have an entire new cast. I would suggest only one round of "introduction chapters"

I agree that Mutiny in the Mist and Godesses Rite of Rebirth serve perfectly as the introduction chapter for Blue lions and Black Eagels- as their themes nicely foreshadow azure moon and crimsom flower. Unfortunately Golden Deers do not have that kind of fit in the first chapters. We could simply give them Familiar Scenery, because it happens story-wise at that time, but it does not really reflect what verdant brink or Claude is all about. While the chapter you created would also meet the requirements quite well.... we already have a chapter ingame that would also work perfectly..... namely the Paralogue Sword and Shield of Seiros. While in this chapter the almyrans do not appear by themselves, it shows their impact on the people including the prejudice and fear the folans have against them. So I would suggest to swap this paralogue with the the second mission. So that the first task of new tutor with the students is something mundane in Deirdru which then escalates with the unexpected arrival of pirates, while the hunt after Bandits is given to Shamir&Alois. The order then would be:

Prologue: An Inevitable Encounter (Three Lords)

Chapter 1: Three Houses

Chapter 1: Sword and Shield of Seiros (Golden Deers, will need a new name)

Chapter 2: Mutiny in the Mists (Blue Lions)

Chapter 3: The Godesses Rite of Rebirth (Black Eagles)

Chapter 4: Rumors of a Reaper (Choose a House) - The logic then would be that with Flayn disappearing the houses would work together, instead of Manuela Hanneman will gets knocked out, forcing Manuela to stay in the infirmary and heal him. With all three professors busy/gone, you as the combat tutor will have the task the pick a house and lead them to battle..... which then becomes your house ....

Afterwards the story could continue with Tower of Black Winds and then the normal sequence. But I personally would already like here if Chapter 5 at this point would be something quite specific to the house you have choosen like e.g.

Chapter 5a - Tower of Black Winds (if Blue Lions were choosen)

Chapter 5b - Almyran Cannon (I like the idea ... also would be quite the interesting boss, if Golden Dear was choosen)

Chapter 5c - Something in the Empire (if Black Eagles were chosen)

Chapter 6: Field of the Eagle and Lion

...

That would mean that White Clouds is a Chapter short but would have more replayabillity as there are unique chapters quite early on. Of course there is also the issue with Familiar Scenary beeing a paralogue that people might miss the introduction of the the Flame Emperor, but I think that can be solved by an additional Cutscene after Chapter 3 or 4 where the character is properly introduced.

I can see the value of having only one round of introductory chapters (I guess we can just kill Kostas in the opening, but then you'd lose the Flame Emperor connection, and really Flame Emperor does little enough as is, getting rid of the singular thing Edelgard does in that guise would make it even more pointless, but then maybe you could work something like that into 5C), though moving Rumours of the Reaper so far forward kind of creates knock on effects..Well actually no, not a whole lot, so long as it's after the Rite of Rebirth. White Clouds's first half being so episodic means not a lot actually happens that's connected. It would mean a super early Flayn for the sake of gameplay though. Which isn't necessairly a bad thing.

Having Chapters 5A, 5B and 5C is a very appealing idea, and one I definitely would have preferred if designing the game from base. And it fixes one issue I had, which was that I had the Almyran Canon before Tower of Black Winds, even though Tower of Black Winds introduces the concept of monster enemies and my idea for the Almyrian canon was a multispace stationary enemies. But if they're parallel then both chapters introduce that gameplay mechanic (albeit in different ways), likewise the Black Eagles Chapter 5 would need to introduce giant enemies in some fashion as that was the whole point of Tower of Black Winds.

And of course all these events would still be canon even if you don't play through them personally. After Byleth is finished doing stuff with the Black Eagles, Dimitri would be all like "Yes, we ran into a giant monster too fighting bandits. It was because the guy tried to use a relic without a crest." Having exclusive chapters for White Clouds really would improve it's replayability, it would also make it shorter so the game is less 70% identical white Clouds and 30% other routes (that are almost identical).

49 minutes ago, Nihilem said:

Crimson Flower

I like the central ideas about giving Edelgard a tough time and letting her use the demonic beast to win the war. I also feel the biggest issue with this route is that you steamroll your enemies without any kind of trouble ..... balancing morality and power/efficiency would fit quite nicely in this route imo and it would cement its more grey nature. I just dont like that in this version everything would be solved while the other routes have issues left. If there isnt a golden route - which I would prefer if there is, but wide consensus seems to be that there should not be one - all decisions should lead to endings that have pros and cons. Or all paths should lead to a golden future ....

So I would suggest that each path concentrate on one core issue. In case of Crimson Flower that would be the Church and the crest System. Which is fitting with Rhea as the last Boss. The Agarthians could be dealt a major blow on the way, but getting completly rid of them should be the honor of a different path.

Yeah I could accept the Agarthans not being completely destroyed. Just so long as it's not like it is in the actual game where the conflict is completely left hanging.

49 minutes ago, Nihilem said:

Silver Snow

Rhea as a Lord is certainly a must here. I would not agree about the students betraying you all. While I see the story impact behind it, from a gameplay perspective that would be horrible. Exspecially for people that do this on their first run. Also giving it the Nemesis-Fight and an closure over the agarthian situation would give fit nicely in this path..... but to be honest ..... it would need a sincerly redesign from the ground up and considering the ressources necessary for this ..... I would simply remove this path in its entirety and allocate the free ressources and story beats to flesh out the paths of the three lords (which should be the main focus of the game to begin with).

Of course that does not mean that people that picked Black Eagles are forced to join Edelgard (that path should remain more grey after all) but instead of siding with the church an reliving most of verdant wind (without Claude) I would give the player the option to either join forces with the Kingdom or Alliance. Then the Player would directly go over to Azure Moon or Verdant Winds. In this case the Lords plus retainer would replace Edelgard and Hubert and you would continue that story-line. For most cutscenes we would get away with as they focus on Byleth and the Lord only the in-engine ones and obviously the dialogue would need to be adjusted to include Black Eagle students. I would prefer a playable Rhea (maybe even with playable Sothis?) but it would require a lot of work...... and sometimes less is more...... it also would have been a nice idea for a dlc pack (Where we got certainly not enough from ...)

Hmm. Just swapping over to another route would...well it wouldn't be problematic in of itself, but it would further hightlight a tonne of problems in the game. Namely that what you did in Part 1 should have been built up to what happens in Part 2. But if you could just jump into Part 2 without actually playing Part 1 with that lord then it kind of means Part 1 was pointless...which it currently is, but it absolutely shouldn't be. If it came down to a decision I think I'd rather just force people who chose Black Eagles to go with Edelgard. It's not like players get a choice whether to be best buds with a deranged slasher villain in Azure Moon.

49 minutes ago, Nihilem said:

Azure Moon

Azure Moon is quite fine I think. I like your idea of Dimitri having a mad rush towards enbarr and failing there to come back to his senses. But I would keep Rodrigues Death at Gronder as the turning point, it fits thematically more. But the idea with him attacking first the Fort is also quite promising. You could include the story of having an insane commander quite nicely in gameplay by attacking unlimited amounts of enemies in defensive positions until someone can convice your stupid leader to sound the retreat (together with many heroic green units to sacrifice of course).

In the case that Silver Snow gets scraped this route can get the church storyline concerning Byleths origins (as it is a character-driven route to begin with) and the more church-friedly story beats of Silver Snow. Considering the Church and Kindom were quite close.

Main Enemy would still be the empire. With Edelgard as the last boss.

 

Verdant Wind

I kinda like our your first three chapters and Evil Dimitri as a Chapter Boss  ..... but I would not include the marriage proposal ..... that would be quite weird for people that are trying to S-Rank Claude with Byleth. Maybe instead let Evil Dimitri be a part of this version of Gonder-Fields Storywise it could be explained that the Agarthians thought Edelgard was a little bit to sucessful and has outlived her usefulness (considering most of fodlan is in their graspes now and the alliance seemed weak and disunited). So they already plan for her retirement. He could even reappear (now fully corrupted by Agarthan Tech) in the chapter where you beat Edelgard instead of Dedue. Giving Claude a nice reminder of what the Agartians are capable of.......  If Silver Snow is gone, the problem with the two paths beeing to similiar would also no longer exist ^^.....

Anyways, the last battle against Nemesis and the 10 elites are quite thematic fitting to the route. As they represent the past of fodlan that needs to be overcomed for it to turn towards future. A little bit more forshadowing would be nice , as that chapter comes quite unexpected.

 

If Silver Snow doesn't exist then the issue of it being too similar to Verdant Wind does indeed go away, but the issue of Verdant Wind being too disconnected from Claude remains, and I kind of think that's a worse issue. So one way or another, Verdant Wind is the route that requires the most changing to actually be somewhat close to complete.

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4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I can see the value of having only one round of introductory chapters (I guess we can just kill Kostas in the opening, but then you'd lose the Flame Emperor connection, and really Flame Emperor does little enough as is, getting rid of the singular thing Edelgard does in that guise would make it even more pointless, but then maybe you could work something like that into 5C), though moving Rumours of the Reaper so far forward kind of creates knock on effects..Well actually no, not a whole lot, so long as it's after the Rite of Rebirth. White Clouds's first half being so episodic means not a lot actually happens that's connected. It would mean a super early Flayn for the sake of gameplay though. Which isn't necessairly a bad thing.

 

I would leave the death of kostas as a Paralogue for Shamir&Alois. I kind of makes sense that they are sent after the bandits. The Flame Emperor could even still appear and kill him. Storywise it then just happens a little bit later (somewehere around chapter 4-5). And the Flame Emperor would need a new proper introduction. A cutscene after Chapter 3 would be enough for that I think. While also something in Chapter 5C could happen ofc.

 

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Having Chapters 5A, 5B and 5C is a very appealing idea, and one I definitely would have preferred if designing the game from base. And it fixes one issue I had, which was that I had the Almyran Canon before Tower of Black Winds, even though Tower of Black Winds introduces the concept of monster enemies and my idea for the Almyrian canon was a multispace stationary enemies. But if they're parallel then both chapters introduce that gameplay mechanic (albeit in different ways), likewise the Black Eagles Chapter 5 would need to introduce giant enemies in some fashion as that was the whole point of Tower of Black Winds.

And of course all these events would still be canon even if you don't play through them personally. After Byleth is finished doing stuff with the Black Eagles, Dimitri would be all like "Yes, we ran into a giant monster too fighting bandits. It was because the guy tried to use a relic without a crest." Having exclusive chapters for White Clouds really would improve it's replayability, it would also make it shorter so the game is less 70% identical white Clouds and 30% other routes (that are almost identical).

 

I play a lot of Triangle Strategy recently so I like the concept of early path branches.Even if they dont change to much in the long run. I didnt even though about Monster Enemies beeing introduced in that chapter. For Edelgards Chapter it could be having a remaining cell of the southern church that activates one of these golems and attacking something with it. That would keep the anti-church theme and also explain why the adrestians are a little bit more wary about the church. Which was explained in the game but never actually shown outside of edelgard. And yes the other chapters beeing canonical what the other guys were doing in that month is quite logical. The idea to let them mention it as a way of foreshadowing future runs is also interesting.

 

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Yeah I could accept the Agarthans not being completely destroyed. Just so long as it's not like it is in the actual game where the conflict is completely left hanging.

Hmm. Just swapping over to another route would...well it wouldn't be problematic in of itself, but it would further hightlight a tonne of problems in the game. Namely that what you did in Part 1 should have been built up to what happens in Part 2. But if you could just jump into Part 2 without actually playing Part 1 with that lord then it kind of means Part 1 was pointless...which it currently is, but it absolutely shouldn't be. If it came down to a decision I think I'd rather just force people who chose Black Eagles to go with Edelgard. It's not like players get a choice whether to be best buds with a deranged slasher villain in Azure Moon.

If Silver Snow doesn't exist then the issue of it being too similar to Verdant Wind does indeed go away, but the issue of Verdant Wind being too disconnected from Claude remains, and I kind of think that's a worse issue. So one way or another, Verdant Wind is the route that requires the most changing to actually be somewhat close to complete.

I agree that it would not be perfect. But Edelgards Route is quite special in the regard that you are in the role of the aggressor and you stay in that role. While everyone knew that Dimitri is fixed at the end of his path. And I think the problem with Verdant Wind is mostly that they had to make it quite generic so it fits the church and Golden Deer. I mean Seteth also does not do much in Silver Snow. So I think it would have been better if they have given Verdant Wind to Claude entirely and integrated the church storyline in azure moon. They have similiar goals after all. Or as its own DLC.

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1 minute ago, Nihilem said:

I play a lot of Triangle Strategy recently so I like the concept of early path branches.Even if they dont change to much in the long run. I didnt even though about Monster Enemies beeing introduced in that chapter. For Edelgards Chapter it could be having a remaining cell of the southern church that activates one of these golems and attacking something with it. That would keep the anti-church theme and also explain why the adrestians are a little bit more wary about the church. Which was explained in the game but never actually shown outside of edelgard. And yes the other chapters beeing canonical what the other guys were doing in that month is quite logical. The idea to let them mention it as a way of foreshadowing future runs is also interesting.

The Golem would be good as that would be a different brand of giant unit for each.

1 minute ago, Nihilem said:

 

I agree that it would not be perfect. But Edelgards Route is quite special in the regard that you are in the role of the aggressor and you stay in that role. While everyone knew that Dimitri is fixed at the end of his path. And I think the problem with Verdant Wind is mostly that they had to make it quite generic so it fits the church and Golden Deer. I mean Seteth also does not do much in Silver Snow. So I think it would have been better if they have given Verdant Wind to Claude entirely and integrated the church storyline in azure moon. They have similiar goals after all. Or as its own DLC.

Yeah, Seteth doesn't do a massive amount, but his presence does still feel more relevant by virtue of being a Nabetean and that the identity of the route is siding with the church (rather than the Alliance or somewhere else) which he leads. He also is responsible for divulging some important lore to Byleth. He doesn't really have anything resembling a character arc or the like, but if he (and Flayn) were removed from Silver Snow then I think the absence would be felt (course they effectively are removed from Silver Snow in Verdant Wind, in which their absence is plugged with Claude who is cooler and more interesting, but less relevant, so said absence is demonstratably felt, kind of).

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hey Jotari, finally got around to watching this video. I really enjoyed the imagination and hard work you put in to creating it. Well done!

I absolutely love the intro scene to 3H when Rhea gets her revenge on Nemesis. It’s the only scene I never skip no matter what. 

But watching that scene and seeing the exact same Paladins and Pegasus Knights and soldiers as… 1000 years later… also had me scratching my head. I like your idea of explaining this a little by showing Rhea to have suppressed advancement of technology. 

I also thought it was awkward how Dimitri flips a switch and becomes a nice guy all of a sudden in the game. And to me, the most moving part of his route where a change should have been most apparent is not when Flèche kills Rodrigue, but rather when Dedue returns to him alive. I would be 100% OK if right then and there Dimitri flipped a switch. Dedue had always been his ally and protector. I always inferred that the thought of having lost Dedue was a substantial factor of what sent him off the deep end. IDK. I ship those two I guess lol. We don’t Deserve Dedue. He’s the best. 

Anyway thanks for sharing your entertaining take on the plot. 👍

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3 hours ago, Bylift said:

Hey Jotari, finally got around to watching this video. I really enjoyed the imagination and hard work you put in to creating it. Well done!

I absolutely love the intro scene to 3H when Rhea gets her revenge on Nemesis. It’s the only scene I never skip no matter what. 

But watching that scene and seeing the exact same Paladins and Pegasus Knights and soldiers as… 1000 years later… also had me scratching my head. I like your idea of explaining this a little by showing Rhea to have suppressed advancement of technology. 

I also thought it was awkward how Dimitri flips a switch and becomes a nice guy all of a sudden in the game. And to me, the most moving part of his route where a change should have been most apparent is not when Flèche kills Rodrigue, but rather when Dedue returns to him alive. I would be 100% OK if right then and there Dimitri flipped a switch. Dedue had always been his ally and protector. I always inferred that the thought of having lost Dedue was a substantial factor of what sent him off the deep end. IDK. I ship those two I guess lol. We don’t Deserve Dedue. He’s the best. 

Anyway thanks for sharing your entertaining take on the plot. 👍

Yeah making Dedue's survival mandatory and integrating him into the story completely would help a lot.

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On 3/26/2022 at 8:55 AM, Jotari said:

Yeah, Seteth doesn't do a massive amount, but his presence does still feel more relevant by virtue of being a Nabetean and that the identity of the route is siding with the church (rather than the Alliance or somewhere else) which he leads. He also is responsible for divulging some important lore to Byleth. He doesn't really have anything resembling a character arc or the like, but if he (and Flayn) were removed from Silver Snow then I think the absence would be felt

I also forgot to add about Seteth:

This is of course just my opinion; I feel like he does have a nice character arc. In the beginning he comes across as strict, standoffish, suspicious of Byleth, overbearing towards Flayn and others (Hilda is terrified of him lol), and I didn't much like him in Part 1 my first playthrough.

In Part 2, he works through his helicopter dad tendencies with Flayn and sees things from her side. He even apologizes to her. He shows himself to be a kind and encouraging father figure to his supports. For example he gently encourages Cyril* to be himself and live his own life instead of being a Rhea thrall. He sees Hilda's talent for illustration and encourages her to do something constructive for a change. Overall he develops into much less of a drill sergeant and more of a Guidance Counselor. He also shows his humility and adaptability by acknowledging that the students have much to teach him about fishing, his own stories, etc. This is in sharp contrast to his personality in Part 1. I do acknowledge however, that I'm talking about support conversations and not mandatory story scenes. Still, I believe he has a great character arc.

I also think that story-wise, for as much as he officially relinquishes control of the church (and thus the plot) to Byleth in SS, most "decisions" seem to be simple agreement with Seteth's plans. I never got the impression that Seteth wasn't the real leader of the Church, despite Byleth's title. While he is available on other routes, I view Seteth as the unofficial Lord(tm) of SS, and I agree that removing him from SS would detract a lot from that route.

*I should also say here that Cyril's supports are probably my favorite in the whole game; especially with Lysithea, Hilda, and Manuela.

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