Can we have a "mod log" or indication when a user is banned?

[AnonymousSpeed]

I think it would be beneficial to the user experience if we implemented a moderation log. At the very least, I would appreciate an indication on a users profile is they've been banned or suspended, as is common on many long-standing forums. Having both would be preferable.

Features like this would also increase transparency, which I think would foster more trust between users and the modstaff. Speaking more specifically, there have been at least two instances where I was really hurting for a lack of these features.

A little over a year and a half ago, a roleplaying campaign I'd started on this site ground to a halt when one of my players stopped posting. This lasted for over a month. He had outstanding warning points which he conscientiously objected to acknowledging, and so was unable to post. However, there was no indication of this immediately visible on his profile. Had he not edited his "About Me" section to explain the situation, and had I not randomly decided to click over to it, I would have been completely in the dark. Whether or not I agreed with his decisions, some indication of what was going on would have been very helpful.

Secondly, I found myself in a discussion recently where there was some confusion about whether a certain user was banned or not. With a moderation log or indication on the user's profile, this confusion could have been avoided, and any rumors about someone being banned or not could quickly be nipped in the bud instead of becoming runaway gossip.

[AvatarofDiscord]

Dont mind me, commenting for gas on this post and to see replies lol

[Zapp Branniglenn]

My suspensions are nobody else's gosh darned business. 

But it would be neat to have a "This user was warned for this post. Please see the Code of Conduct for details" appear under a problematic post. That's something I've seen on other forums. On this site, the infraction is either totally quiet, or the mod takes the opportunity to dunk on the user with a reply just to show how much of a badass they are. Kind of like the satisfied expression my dog gives me after taking a shit in my backyard. You did it, bud. I think this would be a good middle ground between Showing that some things really are not okay, but also respecting the privacy of the individual.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

My warnings are also nobody else's business, especially if there's question between parties on if the person was rightfully warned. I'd definitely object to that kind of feature.

[Sunwoo]

This is a terrible idea. No one has the right to just know whether another user was banned or suspended. If someone wants to share that information, that's their prerogative but not something that should be freely provided to the entire community. Also sounds like it could be invasion of privacy in certain circumstances. This is one of those things that people should be given the option to opt out of.

What I'm getting out of this is that you want this for YOUR convenience without considering the feelings of others, because it inconvenienced you specifically. I have literally never heard of anyone else complain about this before.

[Florete]

I do think a user's profile should indicate if they're banned or suspended, but details otherwise should be left out.

2 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

I have literally never heard of anyone else complain about this before.

No matter what is being said, this is always a terrible response. You never hearing a complaint doesn't mean there isn't a problem or that something can't be better.

[AnonymousSpeed]

4 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

it inconvenienced you

Yes. I wouldn't have complained if there hadn't been some sort of issue. This not only was a problem for me, but also my other players and the people I was in a discussion with.

It would cause inconvenience to anyone wondering why somebody suddenly stopped participating in their campaign or writing competition, or what happened to the person they were discussing anime with. These are hardly unlikely scenarios, they've all already happened.

1 hour ago, Florete said:

I do think a user's profile should indicate if they're banned or suspended, but details otherwise should be left out.

I wouldn't object to this sort of thing at all.

[Rhoda]

Scarlet letters would of course be tacky, but conducting major and maybe even minor moderation more or less openly would be useful 1. to let users know when the discourse has been adjusted (in addition to Anon's practical problems, I find the idea that my conversations are being policed without my awareness kinda distasteful, and certainly more distasteful than the possibility of others finding out what my dumb ass already earned), and 2. to provide a concrete record of what gets the stick, which in the long run makes the guidelines easier to follow and hopefully reduces the incidence of the whole awful process. Accountability is also nice, though SF isn't hurting for it.

21 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

My suspensions are nobody else's gosh darned business. 

19 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

My warnings are also nobody else's business

5 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

invasion of privacy

So, this being a public forum, I post (out loud, for everyone to see) something that's goofy enough to blow past courtesy and warrant a disciplinary response, and the response is the dirty part? What do I get from hiding the punishment if the cringe is already plain?

5 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

What I'm getting out of this is that you want this for YOUR convenience without considering the feelings of others, because it inconvenienced you specifically. I have literally never heard of anyone else complain about this before.

Pretty much. Others' convenience is easily worth the indignity(?) inflicted on the guy who has by definition exhausted grace. So that's Anon, Florete, and I complaining about it right now, so n=3, and most forums I visit (automotive) mark banned users as such right over their avatars, so if that counts I guess like n>>100,000.

Edited February 22 by h  

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 hour ago, h   said:

 

 

Hey don't rope me in with these other guys. I offered a better, middle ground idea than public access to a moderator's kill count. Seriously, what a random, purposeless idea. And I'd be fine with people seeing if I was suspended by hovering their mouse over my profile or whatever. I just don't want a big spectacle to be made of it. Forum drama quickly leads to dorks swaggering over their "win by decision" thanks to a mod stepping in.

[Rhoda]

5 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Hey don't rope me in with these other guys. I offered a better, middle ground idea than public access to a moderator's kill count.

Shoot, fair enough. Drama sucks. But disagree on public administrative records; I know of at least one website where their use never produced any dorky swagger, though the userbase was pretty chill to begin with.

[AvatarofDiscord]

4 hours ago, Florete said:

I do think a user's profile should indicate if they're banned or suspended, but details otherwise should be left out.

No matter what is being said, this is always a terrible response. You never hearing a complaint doesn't mean there isn't a problem or that something can't be better.

I have nothing to say about the comment I just wanted to say I like your Title thing

[AvatarofDiscord]

1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Hey don't rope me in with these other guys. I offered a better, middle ground idea than public access to a moderator's kill count.

What's wrong with taking a look at Moderators high scores 😫

[Fire Emblem Fan]

3 hours ago, h   said:

So, this being a public forum, I post (out loud, for everyone to see) something that's goofy enough to blow past courtesy and warrant a disciplinary response, and the response is the dirty part? What do I get from hiding the punishment if the cringe is already plain?

Don't quote one sentence and not the rest. Here's some more for you:

21 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

especially if there's question between parties on if the person was rightfully warned.

Ever been on a site where you've been constantly abused and quite literally told you should have been aborted, and the mods refuse to step in and put a stop to it? And then you get warned for finally having enough and sticking up for yourself? I have. So, I say again, the whole website being able to see my warnings is a terrible idea. It isn't anyone else's business, especially if there's legit concern about whether or not the person was rightfully warned. Screw that.

[Parrhesia]

Yeah, the party line on this is that it's just not necessary to show warn history for the reasons people have outlined: it's not really the business of anyone else, it stops people making judgements based on that history, and there just isn't really a compelling reason to make up for the discomfort it would cause.

There probably is scope to be more transparent when a warn is given out. For example;

On 2/21/2022 at 2:35 PM, AvatarofDiscord said:

Dont mind me, commenting for gas on this post and to see replies lol

 

50 minutes ago, AvatarofDiscord said:

I have nothing to say about the comment I just wanted to say I like your Title thing

 

45 minutes ago, AvatarofDiscord said:

What's wrong with taking a look at Moderators high scores 😫

This isn't FFTF. Don't spam up the thread.

... Though even that feels odd given I already put that on the message of the warning itself lmao. It's like an explicit warning for everyone else. That's rarely relevant outside of times when an argument in progress has to get stamped down on quickly, and you have  to make a big show to make people shut up.

I'm pretty sure the forum used to show suspensions, and definitely bans, but I figure that went away with the software upgrade. We are to an extent bound to the board software itself, we can't create a completely bespoke interface. I'm not going to pretend I know much about the technical side of the forum, though.

Edited February 22 by Parrhesia

[Rhoda]

15 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Don't quote one sentence and not the rest. Here's some more for you:

Ever been on a site where you've been constantly abused and quite literally told you should have been aborted, and the mods refuse to step in and put a stop to it?

Yeah, almost daily. I don't think I've ever been targeted, though, which this sounds like.

20 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

And then you get warned for finally having enough and sticking up for yourself? I have. So, I say again, the whole website being able to see my warnings is a terrible idea. It isn't anyone else's business, especially if there's legit concern about whether or not the person was rightfully warned. Screw that.

Reminds me of public school, actually. In an environment so overwhelmingly hostile that pointing out abuse only further entrenches it, and so all that's left is to fly under the radar, absolutely, I agree that what I've proposed would only make that situation worse. But that's a borderline Kobayashi Maru, and if it described SF, I imagine we'd be having this discussion on FE Universe or reddit.

1 hour ago, Parrhesia said:

We are to an extent bound to the board software itself, we can't create a completely bespoke interface. I'm not going to pretend I know much about the technical side of the forum, though.

I just looked it up. Invision doesn't seem to offer any of these features, nor plan to. RIP. Maybe the real mod log was the friends we made along the way.

[SoulWeaver]

On 2/21/2022 at 11:30 AM, Sunwoo said:

I have literally never heard of anyone else complain about this before.

Well yes, I was pseudo-suspended at the time and couldn't say anything about it.

On 2/20/2022 at 7:29 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

A little over a year and a half ago, a roleplaying campaign I'd started on this site ground to a halt when one of my players stopped posting. This lasted for over a month. He had outstanding warning points which he conscientiously objected to acknowledging, and so was unable to post. However, there was no indication of this immediately visible on his profile. Had he not edited his "About Me" section to explain the situation, and had I not randomly decided to click over to it, I would have been completely in the dark. Whether or not I agreed with his decisions, some indication of what was going on would have been very helpful.

I'm the gentleman in question here btw, thanks for the callout Anon, haha. We also had this issue with @Anacybele repeatedly getting banned with no way for any of us to know on the WYBO contest, so she would say she had something coming then go MIA. In that case we didn't really say anything because @Dragoncat usually gave us a heads-up, but it was a gigantic pain all the same.

I do sympathize with the idea that one's banned status shouldn't necessarily be broadcast, in case that isn't obvious. However, I do think there are points that one could feasibly be able to see such a thing, like perhaps when a user you are following has a current ban, you realize you haven't seen them post for a while, go check their profile, oh hey, that's good to know. It's one of those grey areas where one needs time to think about it, in my opinion.

This is of course all moot since it sounds like the suggested solutions are not feasible to implement using SF's current tech.