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More countries and "types" of wars should be in FE


Germit
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As both a Fire Emblem fan and a history nerd, I notice how the games focus on wars where one vaguely European country invades another one (or Japan that one time), there's dragons, and bing bang boom, that's it. 

But there are also types of wars that aren't explored in the games, like civil wars and wars for independence. 

I want a game where a European-styled country that you'd usually see in an FE game has a colony based on South America, and you play as that colony fighting for independence.

This could provide a unique setting for the series, with quetzelxoatl riders, terror bird riders (look up terror birds. They were crazy sons of guns--), more culturally and ethnically diverse character designs, and potentially--

 

G u n s.

YeaH, the colonization of the Americas took place long after what the existing Fire Emblem games are loosely based off of, so guns may or may not exist. That's a very big shift though. Potentially they could be reduced to muskets or turned into "magic guns" that shoot fire or lightning or darkness. A dark magic gun sounds fun.

Or they could just not be there at all.

 

Discuss what you think of the idea, but most importantly(!!): What other kinds of wars and revolutions could make for the basis of a unique Fire Emblem game?

Thank you!

 

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Sacae and Ilia are in the midst of Civil Wars during FE6. Somehow this is the game with the best political intrigue in the series.

The funny thing about the Spanish conquest of much of South America is that it's the best historical example of the Fire Emblem gameplay loop I can think of- a small group of about 50 soldiers steamroll a massive empire. I don't think people are really eager to play as Cortez, though.

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I think fates did a good job at having visually distinct looking countries even if they did't quite get the war reasons down. Or expand on those countries in any way other then their visuals.

Hoshido is of course the obvious place to name, but I also think they did well with the other nations. Nestra for example is still European styled, but there is no place that looks like it in Fire Emblem.  Izumo doesn't quite have the same vibe as Hoshido and there is also the wind village with its more desert and rock inspired culture.

Of course the problem is that Fates had absolutely zero interest in any of these places. Nestra has no playable characters or anything of importance after the chapter ends. Its a place that might as well not exist.  The wind tribe and Izumo are hardly any better either.

So I'd say that other then drastic deparatures they could also try different European styles for their countries. Greek, Venice, etc. Or a more Arabic nation nextdoor.

But for another type of war I could see a roman/'barbaric' setting work. With the lord being part of the roman empire and starting out invading the 'simple barbarians' before turning sides against the agressors and fighting the more 'proper Fire Emblem empire' roman baddies.

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I've always been a big proponent of an Arabian Nights setting for Fire Emblem. Its why I'd like an Almyra Emblem in the future. 

Other settings I'd like to see would be Greco/Roman or Persian. For Fates I was really annoyed that the first trailer teased Nohr being based on Rome but then dropped that aspect entirely when the game came out. 

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3 hours ago, Germit said:

 

But there are also types of wars that aren't explored in the games, like civil wars and wars for independence. 

If you haven't already you might try playing FE4: Genealogy of the Holy War, and FE5: Thracia 776. Thracia 776 is definitely a war for independence the whole way through, and Genealogy of the Holy war explores a lot of little wars over its 20ish year span. Also FE7's Lyn mode is a fairly simple civil war (and even the main FE7 plot has a planned civil war that never materializes thanks to the heroes efforts...). Arguably the Alm parts of Echoes/Gaiden are (mostly) about a war for independence as well. Part 1 of Radiant Dawn is another independence war, Part 2 a civil war. I would say the issue is more that a lot of the games lose interest in those type of wars, so they can introduce some world ending external threat.

 

1 hour ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Sacae and Ilia are in the midst of Civil Wars during FE6. Somehow this is the game with the best political intrigue in the series.

Genealogy of the Holy War probably has it beat, with chapter 4 and 5 (and arguably 2) being about civil wars, and political intrigue being a big part of that game...

 

I want to see a game focus on a succession crisis, with multiple potential pretenders to an empty throne, without some foreign invaders (player controlled, or evil empires) taking a direct hand in the thing (although more indirect support would be interesting...).

 

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While I`m not a fan of having guns in mainline FE,  I love the idea of playing as colony fighting for independence. It could open the way to having more unique map objectives, like stealing supplies or collapsing a mine tunnel.

A civil war conflict is also one I could get behind. It could be a succession crisis where you play as a bastard of the King that people follow due to how self-centered and power hungry half-siblings turn out to be. Or something like Lyn Mode, where the Lord`s uncle or brother takes the throne and they must overthrow him. I like the suggestion of having enemy nations getting involved to make the war go in their favor, like supporting their prefered party.

I would love to see more variance in inspirations for Fire Emblem countries. Persian, Indian, Aztec, Greek, Roman, Chinese etc, more places outside of Medieval Europe. This could also bring in some more different kinds of weapons, mounts and creatures. It could even expand the types of magic, with certain countries or cultures having spells no-one else does.

Edited by Metal Flash
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Here's a civil war scenario which I previously posted:

On 6/13/2019 at 10:38 PM, henrymidfields said:

I would make a succession crisis based on the debate of the Imperial Family in Japan in the present day, as well as elements from Elizabethan Britain and Austria during Maria Teresa's days. The royal family has a crisis - while the family itself has a young princess (the protagonist), and an only child, currently the only possible heir to the monarch. However the extended relatives and their supporters are not too happy about that, and points out any of the male descendants from the other branches would rule the kingdom just fine.

Furthermore, the neighboring kingdoms, who fought against the protagonists' homeland previously, were looking for any excuse to sack the latter, having fought in a bitter war that nearly led to a societal breakdown. And just if you think they were the agressors, it's actually the protagonist's grandfather that started the whole mess  - so it's not as simple as a typical FE game either. And the effects are still seen in the present - many people from those countries live impoverished, and their governments have only recently started keeping law and order in control. The protagonist's parents, ashamed at their own parent's past, are doing their best to renew the royal family and break away from the warmongering past, but it's not so easy when the old aristocrats, wealthy merchants, and anyone else who supported the grandfather are bitter about being ushered into a new era.

The whole situation could come to a boiling point where some of the opposing vassals/local lords would plot an assasination against the protagonist's family. The protagonist is safe, but her parents were not as lucky. And with it, a civil war ensues - a struggle between the old values and the new, a struggle for the protagonist's rightful place as ruler, and a struggle for her voice to be heard in a world where kings and emperors ruled in the past.

The final bosses would be a family from one of the branches and their supporters, and different endings will play out depending on how many of the supporters you managed to convince to switch sides/surrender. The more people surrendering, the better the Protagonist's/Princess's/future Queen's political outcome. The least favorable case would be if the protagonist's army killed most of the enemy units throughout the final chapters, in which the protagonist who is now the new Queen gets assassinated several years later in a coup d'etat. The most favourable case is when the protagonist's army convinced at least 60% of the people to lay down their arms and even convinced some of the final antagonists's cousins to reconcile, in which the Queen would realise a new Golden Age during her reign, and would lead to another of her female descendant take the crown. Much of the supernatural would be downplayed, with dragons only being used for warfare like most of Pokemon (and to some extent Binding Blade), and the final bosses are all normal humans.

So a story that combines both Japan's modern social problems with well, any sort of pre-Industrial aesthetic. And especially an endgame chapter that is more mundane and requires some objective other than "overpower the giant dragon/monster/superhuman" for the gameplay difficulty.

Edited by henrymidfields
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I'm pretty sure that magic has at least as much destructive power in the FE games as guns had in the real-life colonial era, so I'm pretty sure in any sort of "colonial" setting, magic would replace guns.

Of course, in real life, guns largely replaced bows, and in FE, magic didn't...

Anyway, as political intrigue goes, FE7 is more complicated (or at least different) than the "one European country invades another one" trope: There is a succession crisis in one of the country's central provinces one year, followed by a rebellion by another of the country's central provinces a year later. I do agree that it would be nice for FE to do something like that more often, and invasions less often.

Edited by Paper Jam
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 I’d love a game set in ancient China, Dynasty Warriors-style (it surprised me that KT didn’t go that route w/ 3H, considering everything). Southeast Asia, South America, Polynesia, even other European countries more varied than the usual like Spain or Greece. There’s a lot of choices much more interesting than the same loosely medieval European setting that’s been repeated throughout the series.  But even that can be tweaked; Nohr was an example of a European setting managing to stay fresh. The darker, gothic? aesthetic and atmosphere felt very unique. 

I’d also really like games set in different time periods. A concern I’ve seen is that a game in any other era would lose the feeling of FE, which I’m guessing much see as coming from the general medieval fantasy setting. But I’d say common themes like imperialism, war, and how history is told would have even more impact and more to say in games with further advanced settings; where all of those are very valid concerns even today. Now I wouldn’t want a modern-day FE (though something very futuristic like Shambhala has precedent and would be interesting), but there are plenty of eras to explore throughout history even solely within a Western framework. Baroque, Industrial Revolution, Victorian, Progressive era, 1920’s, etc. A vaguely 1910’s set game could have a truly large-scale war involving multiple nations. A vaguely Cold War inspired game could have a lot of the story and tension arise from espionage and other political conflicts of the era. Of course, when basing a game off real life events sensitivity and respect is key and I don’t completely trust IS and/or KT to do the greatest job with that. Still, I think a well-done attempt would be worth playing. 

And guns would be very cool to see. Magic-fueled or straight up actual guns, provided they fit in the established world.

Edited by nthcolor
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50 minutes ago, Paper Jam said:

I'm pretty sure that magic has at least as much destructive power in the FE games as guns had in the real-life colonial era, so I'm pretty sure in any sort of "colonial" setting, magic would replace guns.

Of course, in real life, guns largely replaced bows, and in FE, magic didn't...

Guns aren't just about their destructive power, though. They're also about their ease of use. It's a whole lot easier to train someone to use a musket than to use a longbow, which is valuable in any war relying on militias, conscripts, or irregulars. On the other hand, magic in FE (and most fantsy worlds) is typically portrayed in the opposite way. If you want to be effective with magic then you need to be either naturally gifted or you need to spend a lot of time studying, or often both. So I don't see that magic would be a good substitute for guns.

But yes, I do agree with the overall sentiment that it would be interesting to see a greater variety of conflicts in the FE series. Though I will say that one thing about the typical wars of conquest that FE likes to do is that they create a very strong sense of right and wrong. This can be both a good thing and a bad thing. On the positive side, I for one find it much more easier to emotionally connect with fighting for "the good guys". On the negative side, it can lead to very shallow and tedious plots with no nuance and no interest.

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1 hour ago, Paper Jam said:

I'm pretty sure that magic has at least as much destructive power in the FE games as guns had in the real-life colonial era, so I'm pretty sure in any sort of "colonial" setting, magic would replace guns.

Magic in Fire Emblem sucks. You can douse the opponent with "fire", and they somehow survive? Comfortably? You try that in the real world, and you're looking at 10 to 15 years for third-degree (heh) murder.

That said, I think it's a pretty interesting concept. Give the "invading/colonizing" nation access to magic, while the "native" groups only have access to weaponry. Or, maybe they could have their own version of magic, like Hoshido's "spirit" system? Of course, we should be wary about falling into "backwards and primitive" or "noble savage" archetypes. How do we depict two groups with access to different levels or types of technology, without accidentally conveying a message that one is inferior to the other?

18 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

If you haven't already you might try playing FE4: Genealogy of the Holy War, and FE5: Thracia 776. Thracia 776 is definitely a war for independence the whole way through, and Genealogy of the Holy war explores a lot of little wars over its 20ish year span. Also FE7's Lyn mode is a fairly simple civil war (and even the main FE7 plot has a planned civil war that never materializes thanks to the heroes efforts...). Arguably the Alm parts of Echoes/Gaiden are (mostly) about a war for independence as well. Part 1 of Radiant Dawn is another independence war, Part 2 a civil war. I would say the issue is more that a lot of the games lose interest in those type of wars, so they can introduce some world ending external threat.

Act 1 of Echoes could be considered a sort of civil war, as Desaix is functionally Zofia's head-of-state, and I believe most of his troops are Zofian regulars. Obviously, he has the backing of Rigel, so whether his should be considered a "puppet regime" is up for debate.

Speaking of "puppet regime", how about Azure Moon? Cornelia takes effective control of the Kingdom, leading some of the houses (i.e. Rowe) to support her, while others (i.e. Gautier, Fraldarius) push back. This could be considered a sort of civil war. Technically this happens on all non-CF routes, but only AM actually cares to see it through to the end.

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3 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Magic in Fire Emblem sucks. You can douse the opponent with "fire", and they somehow survive? Comfortably? You try that in the real world, and you're looking at 10 to 15 years for third-degree (heh) murder.

That said, I think it's a pretty interesting concept. Give the "invading/colonizing" nation access to magic, while the "native" groups only have access to weaponry. Or, maybe they could have their own version of magic, like Hoshido's "spirit" system? Of course, we should be wary about falling into "backwards and primitive" or "noble savage" archetypes. How do we depict two groups with access to different levels or types of technology, without accidentally conveying a message that one is inferior to the other?

Well, the same thing happens with normal weapons. A guy can also survive like three-four lance stabs before finally keeling over.

An improvement over the Beorc-Laguz situation of Tellius could already be a step-up, at least.

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1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

How do we depict two groups with access to different levels or types of technology, without accidentally conveying a message that one is inferior to the other?

That depends on what you mean by inferiority and levels of technology. There's very little argument that the Aztecs were anything other than technologically inferior to the Spaniards, and morally or culturally? Well, there's a whole argument there I don't want to drag you into. This is, of course, a work of fiction, and a hypothetical one at that, so it is unbound by the petty trivialities of what actually happened in real life. I'd say that worrying about how the message you convey is very silly though, because that is also dependent on the audience, and this is supposedly a plot, not an essay.

20 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Genealogy of the Holy War probably has it beat, with chapter 4 and 5 (and arguably 2) being about civil wars, and political intrigue being a big part of that game.

Yeah, but FE4 sucks, so...

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

That said, I think it's a pretty interesting concept. Give the "invading/colonizing" nation access to magic, while the "native" groups only have access to weaponry.

Anyway. The actual intuitive idea would be to give magic to the natives, since it would be a non-technological advantage.

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20 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

How do we depict two groups with access to different levels or types of technology, without accidentally conveying a message that one is inferior to the other?

We already have different countries having different units, such as pegasus knights generally coming from friendly or at least neutral countries, and wyvern riders usually coming from enemy countries. I don't see how much of a difference it would make to give pegasus knights and wyvern riders different levels of technology too.

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I've long wanted to see Fire Emblem tackle terrorism. And by that I don't mean "Give me another fanatical cult who murder civilians and eat puppies for breakfast", no, I mean an actual exploration of terrorism as a means of fighting a conflict. Though expecting such nuance is probably beyond Fire Emblem.

On 3/23/2022 at 12:59 AM, Armchair General said:

Needs some partisan warfare, for an change.

Would Thracia count as partisan warefare?

On 3/23/2022 at 2:05 AM, AnonymousSpeed said:

Sacae and Ilia are in the midst of Civil Wars during FE6. Somehow this is the game with the best political intrigue in the series.

The funny thing about the Spanish conquest of much of South America is that it's the best historical example of the Fire Emblem gameplay loop I can think of- a small group of about 50 soldiers steamroll a massive empire. I don't think people are really eager to play as Cortez, though.

Binding Blade is also the only game to throw colonialism into the mix. It also has a proper federalized country which it gets a bit of milage out of. It's almost surprising how cookie cutter Roy's story manages to be in spite of all the interesting elements it has at play.

On 3/23/2022 at 8:33 PM, Paper Jam said:

I'm pretty sure that magic has at least as much destructive power in the FE games as guns had in the real-life colonial era, so I'm pretty sure in any sort of "colonial" setting, magic would replace guns.

Of course, in real life, guns largely replaced bows, and in FE, magic didn't...

Anyway, as political intrigue goes, FE7 is more complicated (or at least different) than the "one European country invades another one" trope: There is a succession crisis in one of the country's central provinces one year, followed by a rebellion by another of the country's central provinces a year later. I do agree that it would be nice for FE to do something like that more often, and invasions less often.

That's because pegasi are immune to guns. So I guess we'd still be using bows if helicopters were completely bullet proof but massively weak to arrows?

Edited by Jotari
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6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I've long wanted to see Fire Emblem tackle terrorism. And by that I don't mean "Give me another fanatical cult who murder civilians and eat puppies for breakfast", no, I mean an actual exploration of terrorism as a means of fighting a conflict. Though expecting such nuance is probably beyond Fire Emblem.

S-ranking manaketes as a metaphor for bacha bazi.

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25 minutes ago, Jotari said:

And by that I don't mean "Give me another fanatical cult who murder civilians and eat puppies for breakfast",

I'd say that is the closest we can get to what we know as Terrorism. The term was born to describe France's situation during Robespierre, as he was said to have unleashed a Terror upon Europe, his government was labeled a Dictatorship and Reign of Terror, and his supporters (or at least just the irregulars of the army) as Terrorists. Usually it's not used retroactively to the past.

Simply put, Terrorism is beyond FE's usual adapted time frames. The closest could be, arguably, Edelgard, since she is kinda Robespierre-ish.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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There should be a game based on Eastern Europe. Admitely I don't know much of historical conflicts that could be a source of inspiration for a plot, but I'm sure that there's a lot, and a game with such aesthetic and lore would be great. 

 

-I'd also mention a game with colonialism kind of theme but a lot of people already discussed it. 

Edited by genesis
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Civil war, succession crisis, etc have all been brought up, so the one I'd like to throw in the hat would be a slave rebellion. There's quite a few examples throughout history to draw from, the most famous of which are the Roman Servile Wars and the Haitian Revolution, but you've also got the Zanj Rebellion and Mamluk Sultanate, so quite a few time periods and countries take influence from.

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9 minutes ago, Soapbar said:

Civil war, succession crisis, etc have all been brought up, so the one I'd like to throw in the hat would be a slave rebellion. There's quite a few examples throughout history to draw from, the most famous of which are the Roman Servile Wars and the Haitian Revolution, but you've also got the Zanj Rebellion and Mamluk Sultanate, so quite a few time periods and countries take influence from.

Distant Tellius prequel where the laguz are the slavers! That's the concept that gave rise to the pompadour Deghensea in my profile.

Edited by Jotari
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On 3/31/2022 at 3:04 PM, Jotari said:

Distant Tellius prequel where the laguz are the slavers! That's the concept that gave rise to the pompadour Deghensea in my profile.

"Goldoa will not mousse!"

On 3/31/2022 at 10:55 AM, genesis said:

There should be a game based on Eastern Europe. Admitely I don't know much of historical conflicts that could be a source of inspiration for a plot, but I'm sure that there's a lot, and a game with such aesthetic and lore would be great. 

Maybe spell text could be written in a Gothic typeface? Or even Greek or early Cyrillic? Kind of like how Tellius uses the "ancient script" for spellcasting.

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central asia with its colourful drape, clothes, and carpets. do away with edgy all black  or all red. Intricate clothes pattern.design with more than 3-tone colours for the Lord shirt is the minimum ! (hair colour doesnt count). so it will be war of the fashion.

 

or Southeast Asia where the conflict of colonialism been dragged on for too long, 50-100 years at minimum. afaik most if not all FE biggest conflict always start at the start of the game. (might as well not start the game so the whole mess doesnt kickstart) so make it something different for starter setting. we already got so many rabble-rouser, local hoodlum for early chapters. why not just plunge our char into on going big war from start but limit the scope of what you do for sake of tutorial.

think of biggest map battle you can remember, now take our MC and closest dude/friend/subordinate/senior/etc to one corner of the map and limit what they can target / move. while the big bad guy is visible on the other side of the map doing their things.

Edited by joevar
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17 hours ago, joevar said:

central asia with its colourful drape, clothes, and carpets. do away with edgy all black  or all red. Intricate clothes pattern.design with more than 3-tone colours for the Lord shirt is the minimum ! (hair colour doesnt count). so it will be war of the fashion.

I believe Sacae was inspired by the nomadic steppes of Mongolia and the various -stans. Looking back, it's kind of a shame that even the Sacae-centric Lyn Mode gave us very few Sacaean characters (Lyn, Rath, and... is that it?). So we don't interact with the setting or its residents to any great extent.

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