Jump to content

More countries and "types" of wars should be in FE


Germit
 Share

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

I would personally like to believe they just forgot about Orun, but that`s because I just wish to believe his exclusion was a mere mistake. 

Well I was talking about the Watson view more than the Doyle view. I don't think there's any chance they just plain forgot about him though, they went to an effort to create a lot of characters in Blazing Blade that had been mentioned in Binding Blade. Nino, Canas, Lucius, Pent, Karla, Desmond, Hellene, any character half mentioned or implied to exist in Binding Blade they turned into a Blazing Blade character, except Orun. I think they just simply weren't interested in the concept because they'd come up with an entirely different story for Hector's brother. Who knows, maybe Uther originally was Orun, but they changed it when they dedicated they were going to kill him off. Still a shame they didn't fit at least one mention in. It's not like he had a small role to play in Binding Blade. Like, it wasn't big by any stretch, but they did dedicate an entire chapter to him and provided a surprising amount of information about his personality in that one chapter, more than a lot of the other characters they created out of Binding Blade info.

2 hours ago, GuardianSing said:

Making a story showing the evils of colonialism would be very brave, and if made with the intent to send a good message I think it would be great, I just don't think IS or Nintendo for that matter would every allow that to see the light of day.

They already have, in the Fire Emblem series. It just wasn't the main focus of the game and they forewent any visual aesthetic, but Binding Blade in no uncertain terms condemns colonialism as exploitive and a breeding ground for corruption. It even has the guts to make the "good" nation the colonizers.

Edited by Jotari
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 67
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Well I was talking about the Watson view more than the Doyle view. I don't think there's any chance they just plain forgot about him though, they went to an effort to create a lot of characters in Blazing Blade that had been mentioned in Binding Blade. Nino, Canas, Lucius, Pent, Karla, Desmond, Hellene, any character half mentioned or implied to exist in Binding Blade they turned into a Blazing Blade character, except Orun. I think they just simply weren't interested in the concept because they'd come up with an entirely different story for Hector's brother. Who knows, maybe Uther originally was Orun, but they changed it when they dedicated they were going to kill him off. Still a shame they didn't fit at least one mention in. It's not like he had a small role to play in Binding Blade. Like, it wasn't big by any stretch, but they did dedicate an entire chapter to him and provided a surprising amount of information about his personality in that one chapter, more than a lot of the other characters they created out of Binding Blade info.

Good point, then I have no clue why he was excluded. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

It would be interesting to see a story centered around  multiple tribes and their relations with each other would be unique. That being said, it would be kinda hard to sell the idea to the general audience I feel, though that might be a blessing in disguise.

That's another reason why you likely don't see it often, there just isn't much of a market for it. People prefer to stick to what they are comfortable with which is probably why Fire Emblem has been so fantasy drawn for so long.

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

They already have, in the Fire Emblem series. It just wasn't the main focus of the game and they forewent any visual aesthetic, but Binding Blade in no uncertain terms condemns colonialism as exploitive and a breeding ground for corruption. It even has the guts to make the "good" nation the colonizers.

Ah, that's interesting, I'll have to check that out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, GuardianSing said:

That's another reason why you likely don't see it often, there just isn't much of a market for it. People prefer to stick to what they are comfortable with which is probably why Fire Emblem has been so fantasy drawn for so long.

Isn't what @Metal Flash described the entire premise behind "Game of Thrones", though? Sure, the tribes have castles and are in ersatz Europe, but it's the same basic premise.

Anyway, Orun was obviously excluded from FE7 because, right around the same time, Pokemon introduced the similarly-named Oran Berry. Fire Emblem already had items to restore 10 HP in their Vulneraries, so having a game with both them and Orun would just be confusing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/3/2022 at 6:42 PM, SnowFire said:

When people talk about terrorism, they generally mean low-level domestic warfare - murders, assassinations, sabotage, etc. where the goal is generally for a weaker but fanatical force to terrorize a larger but "softer" foe, hoping that people decide that they'd rather retire rather than risk being the local Empire Tax Collector or the like.  What the French Republic did was just normal government oppression - governments killing people they think oppose them.  It's both very old, and it's not usually called terrorism directly (even if intimidation / terror may be involved).  That's been happening since Hammurabi.

Would TWISTD come close to being terrorists? Well, putting aside the nukes, they seem to be doing mostly assassinations to various people (as well as misdirection with more bio-fantasy versions of false flags/impersonations).

Edited by henrymidfields
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, henrymidfields said:

Would TWISTD come close to being terrorists? Well, putting aside the nukes, they seem to be doing mostly assassinations to various people (as well as misdirection with more bio-fantasy versions of false flags/impersonations).

They're not making their name known and using intimidation tactics though. It's all clandestine smoke and dagger stuff. More illuminati than terrorism.

Edited by Jotari
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Isn't what @Metal Flash described the entire premise behind "Game of Thrones", though? Sure, the tribes have castles and are in ersatz Europe, but it's the same basic premise.

Sort of, yes. The seven main regions of Westeros WERE separate kingdoms, which some of them wish to return to. The main difference is that, in Game of Thrones, these tribes are in a loosely united country, while I imagine the tribes they were talking about would be more akin to the Gaulic or Germanic tribes during the Roman Republic period. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

They're not making their name known and using intimidation tactics though. It's all clandestine smoke and dagger stuff. More illuminati than terrorism.

Would that also be the modus for the CIA if we use actual organizations?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Isn't what @Metal Flash described the entire premise behind "Game of Thrones", though? Sure, the tribes have castles and are in ersatz Europe, but it's the same basic premise.

Well what is a tribe? We could easily say there are still tribal conflicts with divisive politics in the modern day (and tribal group think is the only way I can understand any logic when it comes to supporting sports teams).

8 minutes ago, henrymidfields said:

Would that also be the modus for the CIA if we use actual organizations?

Yes, I wouldn't call the CIA terrorists. They're kind of evil and will not hesitate to fuck a country up if they're inclined to do so, but they're not terrorists. Any threats they make are veiled at best. To put terms on it, the Agarthans work much more in espionage than terrorism.

Edited by Jotari
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, henrymidfields said:

Would TWISTD come close to being terrorists? Well, putting aside the nukes, they seem to be doing mostly assassinations to various people (as well as misdirection with more bio-fantasy versions of false flags/impersonations).

TWSITD are kind of a mess.  I'm inclined to agree with Jotari that they're closer to the Illuminati or the CIA though.  I'd argue that they'd be terrorists if they were a bit more open about what they were doing: think the Taliban.  Attention citizens of Fodlan, submit to your rightful rulers being in charge or we keep killing the unworthy beasts.  You can argue that this is MAYBE what they're doing with Remire Village - hence Solon "taking credit" for it - but that plotline isn't really followed-up at all, and it seems easier to explain as just "we want to make sure the player knows who the bad guys are".  They're not really helped by the fact that it seems that their endgame really is to wipe out the "beasts" that inhabit the surface, which makes it hard to create an ideology that would appeal to people: terrorists might be violent, but there usually is a "carrot" at the end for at least *some* of the population, if you adhere to us entirely then you'll be in our good graces when we come to power and purge the unworthy.  (Then again, in WW2's Eastern Front, the Nazis were able to recruit plenty of Slavs unhappy with communism as allies, despite some openly anti-Slavic ideology...  so who knows.)  Based on what they did with Lord Arundel and Cornelia, it does seem like the plan was something like "secretly take over all the governments of Fodlan with imposter spies, abolish the Church of Seiros, then order the governments to do brutal and stupid things like murder half their population on flimsy excuses" which would weaken the surface world enough to allow the Agarthans to return openly.

In the realm of Evil Fire Emblem Organizations that are also a bit of a mess, the Black Fang might be closer to being terrorists?  They seem to be something like a Robin Hood meets the mafia style gang, and it seems likely that they do use intimidation to get their way in the past (make our people unhappy, and we assassinate you).  It could definitely maybe blend into terrorism, especially if in some alternate timeline they decided to fully revolt and become rebels, and needed a way to threaten corrupt governments despite being outnumbered.  But this is all misty background story of the "decent" Black Fang heard about in reminisces before Brendan Reed met Sonia and just became Nergal's minions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/5/2022 at 3:50 PM, SnowFire said:

I'm inclined to agree with Jotari that they're closer to the Illuminati or the CIA though.  I'd argue that they'd be terrorists if they were a bit more open about what they were doing: think the Taliban.

Those groups are all basically the same though #onlykindofjoking

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Point of order: Orun was Hector's and Uther's cousin, not their half-brother. And "cousin" doesn't necessarily imply a close relationship.

Still, he was also the marquess of Thria, so it is odd that he wasn't even mentioned during Hector's and Uther's reunion on the border of Thria.

Edited by Paper Jam
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Paper Jam said:

Point of order: Orun was Hector's and Uther's cousin, not their half-brother. And "cousin" doesn't necessarily imply a close relationship.

Still, he was also the marquess of Thria, so it is odd that he wasn't even mentioned during Hector's and Uther's reunion on the border of Thria.

Are you saying it was a translation error in the fan translation or something? Because that would actually make a lot of sense. Him not being mentioned as Marquess of Thria wouldn't even be that weird given he probably wasn't at the time of Blazing Blade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Jotari said:

Are you saying it was a translation error in the fan translation or something? Because that would actually make a lot of sense. Him not being mentioned as Marquess of Thria wouldn't even be that weird given he probably wasn't at the time of Blazing Blade.

So sayeth the wiki.

I know some Japanese, but my kanji isn't good enough to parse how their relationship is described in the Japanese text in the footnote. So I can't personally vouch for whether the "cousin" or "half-brother" interpretation is more accurate. 

But I looked up some kanji. Apparently the footnote does include the characters for "male cousin(s)". Which leans toward the "cousin" angle, assuming that the footnote text is consistent with untranslated FE6.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
On 4/4/2022 at 1:08 PM, GuardianSing said:

Looking away from the political implications of it, I actually think a game where you play as a small tribe defending against a large empire is very fitting for Fire Emblem. Already in most of the games you are pretty outnumber later on with the implications that nameless soldiers are fighting alongside you. As a small tribe, every unit is every soldier that the tribe has available and could truly make you feel like your outnumbered and outgunned but still have a chance to win the day.

Making a story showing the evils of colonialism would be very brave, and if made with the intent to send a good message I think it would be great, I just don't think IS or Nintendo for that matter would every allow that to see the light of day.

Now as a native Lenca myself, my personal wish would be to have a game that doesn't have settlers and just focuses on ancient tribes. For a long time, the first nation peoples have only ever been brought up when in tangent with the European settlers, most schools in the United States half-ass it by briefly some tribes and empires and then immediately jumping into the Spanish arrival and the American Revolution, so a story set independently from that history that just focuses on the Natives on their own would be a breath of fresh air.

I can't even think of many modern stories that have something like that. At the top of my head, Brother Bear and Moana are the only ones I can think of.

But yes, a story that focuses on the diversities of the tribes would be something I'd prefer over "Generic American tribe" against "Generic European Empire" 

It would also have potential for some truly unique characters and classes, I mean you could have Eagle Warriors with macuahuitls and Atlatls, you could have mythology inspired units like Naguals and feathered serpents.

Circling back to the idea of colonialism in FE, the most realistic outcome would be a story that has two semi-identical fantasy European nations in a colonial context. Fates almost had that with Nohr and the Ice tribe but you were playing as the colonizers in that scenario so...yeah.

Man, now I wish the Ice Tribe in Fates took inspiration from the Sami people instead of being maid land...

I like this. I haven't seen any franchise that focuses on a native American cast that doesn't end up being about colonialism. Giving them a chance to shine in a relatively mainstream game sounds really nice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Germit said:

I like this. I haven't seen any franchise that focuses on a native American cast that doesn't end up being about colonialism. Giving them a chance to shine in a relatively mainstream game sounds really nice

Emperor's New Groove excepting, of course.

Edited by Jotari
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...