Type-themed dimensions or realms

[Lord_Brand]

You know how some RPGs like Dungeons & Dragons have "planes" that are dominated by a particular elemental force or other concept? What if a future Pokemon game introduced different dimensions or realms for each type, where the laws of reality are altered to suit the type dominant to that realm?

For example:

• Normal - Normal Realm, the default realm in which humans live
• Fighting - Battle Realm, a warrior's paradise where one can tap into their inner strength and hone their skills
• Flying - Sky Realm, a vast sea of clouds and floating islands
• Ground - Subterra Realm, an underground world
• Rock - Lithic Realm, a land of deserts and mountains populated by beings made of stone
• Bug - Hive Realm, a world overrun with insects and other bugs
• Poison - Toxic Realm, a wasteland where the very water and air are poisonous and acidic
• Ghost - Spirit Realm, where spirits go after their living bodies pass away
• Steel - Metal Realm, a land where everything is made of metal including most of the inhabitants
• Fire - Inferno Realm, a fiery, volcanic world
• Grass - Forest Realm, a lush world filled with plants and wildlife
• Water - Sea Realm, an underwater world full of marine life
• Electric - Cyber Realm, a virtual world created by technology
• Psychic - Dream Realm, a place where minds connect with one another while their bodies rest
• Ice - Frost Realm, a land of perpetual cold
• Dragon - Dragon Realm, a world ruled by dragons
• Dark - Nether Realm, a dark world where survival is the order of the day
• Fairy - Fairy Realm, a surreal yet fantastic otherworld

Some of these realms are directly connected to the Normal Realm (Spirit, Cyber, Dream) where most of the games take place, while others are more akin to alternate realities. Each one does have more than one type in it, but with the exception of the Normal Realm and those directly connected to it, none of the realms have types that are supereffective against their dominant type. For example, the Metal Realm has no Fighting, Ground, or Fire types in it. You might see the odd Water or Electric-type, but Steel-types are far and away the most common. Conversely, these realms also have very few if any Pokemon of types weak to the dominant type; you won't find many Rock, Ice, or Fairy-types in the Metal Realm, for instance, unless they happen to be part-Steel themselves or are another type resistant to Steel.

It could be hinted that many of these realms are the actual native home dimensions of many Pokemon species, members of whom found their way into the Normal Realm long ago.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

It's an interesting premise. I'm kind of skeptical that a series that only gives a dedicated building to about half the types would actually create an independent dimension for each one. But it would be pretty cool and ambitious.

7 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

You know how some RPGs like Dungeons & Dragons have "planes" that are dominated by a particular elemental force or other concept? What if a future Pokemon game introduced different dimensions or realms for each type, where the laws of reality are altered to suit the type dominant to that realm?

I wonder how they might achieve this, mechanically-speaking? Some are pretty obvious - the "Forest Realm" could have perpetual Grassy Terrain, while the "Sea Realm" has Rain in effect all the time. But how would a "Battle Realm" provide an advantage to Fighting-types? Or a "Spirit Realm", to Ghost-types? Do we introduce new terrains or weather effects? Or something else?

7 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Each one does have more than one type in it, but with the exception of the Normal Realm and those directly connected to it, none of the realms have types that are supereffective against their dominant type. For example, the Metal Realm has no Fighting, Ground, or Fire types in it. You might see the odd Water or Electric-type, but Steel-types are far and away the most common.

Yeah, but Ghost > Ghost. Pack it up, boys, the Spirit Realm is cancelled.

I assume this wouldn't apply to "self super-effectiveness", or to Mons where one of its types is super-effective than the other? It would be bizarre for Steelix to be barred from the Metal Realm on the basis of a technicality.

7 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

• Normal - Normal Realm, the default realm in which humans live
• Dragon - Dragon Realm, a world ruled by dragons
• Fairy - Fairy Realm, a surreal yet fantastic otherworld

As these were the only three Realms to share their original type name, may I suggest: "Ordinary Realm", "Reptilian Realm", and "Forgotten Realm"?

[Lord_Brand]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

It's an interesting premise. I'm kind of skeptical that a series that only gives a dedicated building to about half the types would actually create an independent dimension for each one. But it would be pretty cool and ambitious.

Could be the new big thing of the game. Interdimensional travel, with special cases for the Spirit, Cyber, and Dream Realms. Shoot, maybe the featured Legendaries are involved with the dimensional travel! Incidentally, I'd tie each of the Gym Leaders to the respective realm of their type. For example, the Electric Gym Leader could be a computer expert, and the Ghost Leader a medium who can channel the spirits of the dead.

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I wonder how they might achieve this, mechanically-speaking? Some are pretty obvious - the "Forest Realm" could have perpetual Grassy Terrain, while the "Sea Realm" has Rain in effect all the time. But how would a "Battle Realm" provide an advantage to Fighting-types? Or a "Spirit Realm", to Ghost-types? Do we introduce new terrains or weather effects? Or something else?

I like that idea!

For the Battle Realm, there could be a sort of "battle aura" around the field that enhances Fighting-type moves. Something between terrain and weather effects conceptually. A "field effect", I guess you could say? Though the poor Normal-types don't get anything equivalent since their realm is the default one.

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Yeah, but Ghost > Ghost. Pack it up, boys, the Spirit Realm is cancelled.

I did mention that realms connected to the Normal Realm are exceptions to the rule; the Spirit Realm is where all people and Pokemon's spirits go upon their passing, which would include Dark-types (this suggests that the Spirit Realm is connected to the other seventeen). Likewise, Ground-types could have representation in the virtual world of the Cyber Realm, and Bug, Ghost, and Dark-types appear in the Dream Realm.

Though you know, I just realized: if you catch a Pokemon in the Dream Realm, how the heck do you bring it back with you to the Normal Realm? Does the Pokemon just warp to your side after you catch it in a dream? Does it manifest in the real world? As much as I like Electric and Psychic getting more unique realms, it might be a good idea to make their realms more like the rest, with a physical real world presence, especially if those realms are their native home.

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I assume this wouldn't apply to "self super-effectiveness", or to Mons where one of its types is super-effective than the other? It would be bizarre for Steelix to be barred from the Metal Realm on the basis of a technicality.

That's an interesting case to consider. Steelix would probably be an apex predator on a world ruled by Steel-types. I guess SE types can appear but only on Pokemon who are also of the realm's dominant type? Though the absence of SE types is also supposed to be a contributing factor to particular types becoming dominant in these realms. Perhaps there can be dimensional variants similar to regional variants, with Metal Realm Steelix being pure Steel or Rock/Steel? Metal Realm Onix could also be Rock/Steel.

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

As these were the only three Realms to share their original type name, may I suggest: "Ordinary Realm", "Reptilian Realm", and "Forgotten Realm"?

Is...is that last one a Spyro reference? I like the sound of "Dragon Realm" and "Fairy Realm", but if they had to be different, I'd probably choose "Draconic Realm" and "Fae Realm". For Normal, maybe "Home Realm", since the humans would be naming these realms and the Normal Realm is home to them?

What if each realm had a legendary that serves as that realm's guardian? In addition, there is a Chaos legendary that's responsible for opening portals between the dimensions. In battle, the Chaos legend changes its type every turn, and its signature attack matches whichever type it currently is. However, there exist items that can be used to force the Chaos legend to remain a particular type (similar to Arceus' Plates). The eighteen realm guardians work together to keep the Chaos legend in check.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Lord_Brand

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

3 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Is...is that last one a Spyro reference? I like the sound of "Dragon Realm" and "Fairy Realm", but if they had to be different, I'd probably choose "Draconic Realm" and "Fae Realm". For Normal, maybe "Home Realm", since the humans would be naming these realms and the Normal Realm is home to them?

Not an intentional one. Your suggested names are fine, though.

3 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

What if each realm had a legendary that serves as that realm's guardian? In addition, there is a Chaos legendary that's responsible for opening portals between the dimensions. In battle, the Chaos legend changes its type every turn, and its signature attack matches whichever type it currently is. However, there exist items that can be used to force the Chaos legend to remain a particular type (similar to Arceus' Plates). The eighteen realm guardians work together to keep the Chaos legend in check.

Sounds like a lot of Hoopa. Maybe it could be a "type-changing" regional variant of Hoopa?

3 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

That's an interesting case to consider. Steelix would probably be an apex predator on a world ruled by Steel-types. I guess SE types can appear but only on Pokemon who are also of the realm's dominant type? Though the absence of SE types is also supposed to be a contributing factor to particular types becoming dominant in these realms. Perhaps there can be dimensional variants similar to regional variants, with Metal Realm Steelix being pure Steel or Rock/Steel? Metal Realm Onix could also be Rock/Steel.

Not really a fan of introducing additional type restrictions this way. What's a Fighting-type realm without Medicham, or a Water-type realm without Ludicolo?

3 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

I did mention that realms connected to the Normal Realm are exceptions to the rule; the Spirit Realm is where all people and Pokemon's spirits go upon their passing, which would include Dark-types (this suggests that the Spirit Realm is connected to the other seventeen). Likewise, Ground-types could have representation in the virtual world of the Cyber Realm, and Bug, Ghost, and Dark-types appear in the Dream Realm.

How about this: all the realms are connected to the "Home Realm", and you can travel either direction between the Home Realm and any other Realms. But because the Home Realm is by far the largest, it's tricky to find where the portals are.

As for other realms, the travel is one way based on super-effectiveness. Ergo, you can travel from the Inferno Realm to the Frost Realm, but not vice-versa. From there, you can go to the Draconic Realm, and... you're trapped? Nope, because it connects back to the Home Realm. "Self-super-effective types", like Dragon and Ghost, could have internal portals, becoming a veritable maze.

3 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Could be the new big thing of the game. Interdimensional travel, with special cases for the Spirit, Cyber, and Dream Realms. Shoot, maybe the featured Legendaries are involved with the dimensional travel! Incidentally, I'd tie each of the Gym Leaders to the respective realm of their type. For example, the Electric Gym Leader could be a computer expert, and the Ghost Leader a medium who can channel the spirits of the dead.

With this radical a departure, I'd probably drop the "Gym Leader" trappings altogether. Instead, each realm could have a "Realmkeeper". Some are friendly to you, others hostile, but they all put a premium on the security of their realm.

I could see them assigning you certain tasks. For instance, the Keeper of the Inferno Realm could ask you to find and capture a bunch of Water-types that wandered in from the Undersea Realm. Each task could come with a prize related to that realm - a Charcoal, or a Cameruptite, or the Firium Z-Crystal, for instance. How's that sound?

3 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

For the Battle Realm, there could be a sort of "battle aura" around the field that enhances Fighting-type moves. Something between terrain and weather effects conceptually. A "field effect", I guess you could say? Though the poor Normal-types don't get anything equivalent since their realm is the default one

Maybe an effect that grants +1 priority to all Fighting-type moves? Not just attacks like Close Combat, but also status moves like Bulk Up. And moves that already have +1 priority, such as Vacuum Wave, would be increased to +2, and so on.

[Lord_Brand]

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Sounds like a lot of Hoopa. Maybe it could be a "type-changing" regional variant of Hoopa?

I'm picturing something more original, like a creature with five eyes, five horns, and maybe five limbs. Though Hoopa would probably make sense in such a story. More on that below.

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Not really a fan of introducing additional type restrictions this way. What's a Fighting-type realm without Medicham, or a Water-type realm without Ludicolo?

Not without Medicham necessarily, just maybe a variant of Medicham with a different secondary type. There have to be some restrictions in order to help each realm feel as different and distinct as possible. The logic is that a type flourishes in its realm of dominance because there are no Pokemon of SE types to keep it in check. Normal and Ghost being the obvious exceptions here, of course.

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

How about this: all the realms are connected to the "Home Realm", and you can travel either direction between the Home Realm and any other Realms. But because the Home Realm is by far the largest, it's tricky to find where the portals are.

That was the general intention. My current story is that the portals to different dimensions have opened up because the Chaos legend has been released from its multi-dimensional prison, per the designs of the game's evil Team.

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

As for other realms, the travel is one way based on super-effectiveness. Ergo, you can travel from the Inferno Realm to the Frost Realm, but not vice-versa. From there, you can go to the Draconic Realm, and... you're trapped? Nope, because it connects back to the Home Realm. "Self-super-effective types", like Dragon and Ghost, could have internal portals, becoming a veritable maze.

That's an interesting idea, but why would there be one-way portals?

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

With this radical a departure, I'd probably drop the "Gym Leader" trappings altogether. Instead, each realm could have a "Realmkeeper". Some are friendly to you, others hostile, but they all put a premium on the security of their realm.

See, that's where the Guardians come into play. Each Guardian - a legendary Pokemon - is tasked with protecting their realm from forces that threaten it, including the Chaos legend. Long ago, the Chaos Beast threatened the 18 realms, only to be torn into 18 pieces by the Guardians, each of whom hid a piece away in their respective domain. As long as those pieces remain separate, the Chaos Beast is unable to reform and thus cannot directly threaten the safety of the Realms. But, the Beast's parts are able to manifest a portion of its power, creating dimensional rifts between the Realms so that some unsuspecting soul might end up encountering its pieces and reunite them, unleashing it upon the Realms once more.

The Guardians themselves are basically masters of their respective types, able to learn almost any move save for certain signature moves (mostly those belonging to other Legendary Pokemon). Though the player can catch them, they have the ability to return to their own dimension at any time, meaning that (in story) the player's "ownership" of them is not permanent. But so long as their home dimensions are safe, they will allow the player to keep them as companions for the time being.

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I could see them assigning you certain tasks. For instance, the Keeper of the Inferno Realm could ask you to find and capture a bunch of Water-types that wandered in from the Undersea Realm. Each task could come with a prize related to that realm - a Charcoal, or a Cameruptite, or the Firium Z-Crystal, for instance. How's that sound?

The current plan is that the Gym Leaders, or perhaps equivalents known as Specialists, are called in to help stop the chaos unfolding around the region. Their goal is to determine the cause of the rifts and to close them. To that end, they end up cooperating with the Guardians, who seek the same goal. That said, I could see there being sidequests involving the Realms.

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Maybe an effect that grants +1 priority to all Fighting-type moves? Not just attacks like Close Combat, but also status moves like Bulk Up. And moves that already have +1 priority, such as Vacuum Wave, would be increased to +2, and so on.

What about something that raises stats each turn you use a Fighting-type move? Kind of a Dragon Ball Z-influenced power up mechanic? The stats raised can vary based on the move used. Use Mach Punch, and you gain Speed. Use Counter, and you raise Defense. Use Aura Sphere, and you gain Special Attack. Use Karate Chop, and you gain Strength. And so on.

I have more story for the whole dimensional rift plot as well. A scientist, perhaps an associate of the region's Pokemon Professor, used to conduct experiments regarding the rifts, and sadly lost a member of their family to such a rift years ago. The scientist has tried to find their lost loved one ever since, but they were discredited and defunded due to the dangerous nature of their experiments, forcing them to turn to the Team to continue their experiments. The Team of course seeks to harness the scientist's research for their own nefarious ends, which inevitably culminates in the Chaos Beast being reformed.

As for the Chaos Beast itself, my idea is that each turn it gains a 20% chance to change its form and thus its type, resetting the percentage each time it does so. Thus, it's guaranteed to change within the next five turns after its previous change. It's Chaos Attack move changes type to match it, and has various effects based on which type it currently is.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

3 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Not without Medicham necessarily, just maybe a variant of Medicham with a different secondary type. There have to be some restrictions in order to help each realm feel as different and distinct as possible. The logic is that a type flourishes in its realm of dominance because there are no Pokemon of SE types to keep it in check. Normal and Ghost being the obvious exceptions here, of course.

I'm still not a fan at all. It feels like you're arbitrarily limiting the potential type diversity that each Realm can hold. You've essentially determined that the Forest Realm will have no Grass/Poison (Venusaur), Grass/Flying (Jumpluff), Grass/Bug (Leavanny), Grass/Ice (Abomasnow), or Grass/Fire types. That'd hardly be a hotbed of Poke-biodiversity, and it would certainly be a limited representation of the Grass type writ large.

3 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

That's an interesting idea, but why would there be one-way portals?

We've had one-way portals since Gen I. Back then, we called them "ledges".

3 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

I have more story for the whole dimensional rift plot as well. A scientist, perhaps an associate of the region's Pokemon Professor, used to conduct experiments regarding the rifts, and sadly lost a member of their family to such a rift years ago. The scientist has tried to find their lost loved one ever since, but they were discredited and defunded due to the dangerous nature of their experiments, forcing them to turn to the Team to continue their experiments. The Team of course seeks to harness the scientist's research for their own nefarious ends, which inevitably culminates in the Chaos Beast being reformed.

Ooh, dat tragic backstory. Reminds me of a character from Into the Spider-verse. I like the idea of a good-hearted person working with the "evil team" by necessity. 

3 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

That was the general intention. My current story is that the portals to different dimensions have opened up because the Chaos legend has been released from its multi-dimensional prison, per the designs of the game's evil Team.

How about this: there are "Portals", and there are "Rifts". The Portals are stable two-way connections between the Home Realm and each respectively-typed realm. They were created by Hoopa, who is treated as the "patron legendary" of the region. The Rifts, however, are one-way tears between the Realms, created by the Chaos Beast. The Chaos Beast (in my imagination) doesn't change types randomly, but instead gradually changes its type to match the Realm it's in. It's programmed to attack weaker Pokemon and accumulate EXP. This explains the directionality of the Rifts: if the Chaos Beast stays in the Inferno Realm, it becomes Fire-type. In order to find foes it can beat, it tears a Rift into the Hive Realm. After harassing the Bug-types there, it finds it's become a Bug-type too. So it tears a Rift to skulk the Dream Realm. So on, and so forth. 

I'm imagining tracking down the Chaos Beast, trying to catch up with it and to stop it, to be a major element of the game. In fact, maybe the first* place you encounter the Chaos Beast could be the Draconic Realm? It's one of just two Realms (see also: Spirit) where it retains super-effectiveness after getting there. And since Dragon beats no other type, it won't create a Rift to any other Realm. Perhaps Hoopa could help "trap" it there, by closing the Portal, so you have to follow the Rifts to reach it?

*I say "First", but this might make more sense as a final encounter. In any other Realm, the Chaos Beast could create a Rift to escape your pursuit, but not so in the Draconic Realm.

3 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

I'm picturing something more original, like a creature with five eyes, five horns, and maybe five limbs. Though Hoopa would probably make sense in such a story. More on that below.

What if it had 18 eyes, each of a different color (each corresponding with a type, of course)? All but one would be closed at any given time, and it's signature attack could be a laser fired from its open eye.

[Lord_Brand]

17 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I'm still not a fan at all. It feels like you're arbitrarily limiting the potential type diversity that each Realm can hold. You've essentially determined that the Forest Realm will have no Grass/Poison (Venusaur), Grass/Flying (Jumpluff), Grass/Bug (Leavanny), Grass/Ice (Abomasnow), or Grass/Fire types. That'd hardly be a hotbed of Poke-biodiversity, and it would certainly be a limited representation of the Grass type writ large.

It's not arbitrary, just a matter of applying logic. I just figured they could explain the dominance of a particular type through the absence of types that would SE that type, allowing it to become dominant in that Realm. I'd still intend for there to be a variety of types in each dimension. And truth be told, I'm not a fan of the Bulbasaur line being Grass/Poison. What's poisonous about it? That said, I understand your point about, say, Grass/Flying and Grass/Bug types in the Forest Realm. It'd feel weird if none existed there.

I guess they could just adopt the rule that every Pokemon in most of these realms is that realm's type (the one major exception being the Normal/Ordinary/Home Realm)? All Pokemon in the Metal Realm are Steel-type, all Pokemon in the Dragon Realm are Dragon-type, and so on. That way, you can have stuff like Steel/Ground Steelix in the Metal Realm and Grass/Poison Venusaur in the Forest Realm. But if all Pokemon in those realms are that realm's type, then Onix will need to be Steel/Ground as well. Though their typing suggests that Onix and Steelix would do better in the Subterra Realm than either the Lithic or Metal Realms.

Really, I think it needs to be a case-by-case basis. I wouldn't expect many Ice-types in the Inferno Realm or Fire-types in the Frost Realm. But I could see Rock-types in the Sky Realm or Water-types in the Lithic Realm, though they'd generally have to be of the Realm's primary type.

17 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

We've had one-way portals since Gen I. Back then, we called them "ledges".

That's markedly different from interdimensional passageways. I could see someone or something with the ability to "teleport" between realms, though. More on that below.

17 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

How about this: there are "Portals", and there are "Rifts". The Portals are stable two-way connections between the Home Realm and each respectively-typed realm. They were created by Hoopa, who is treated as the "patron legendary" of the region. The Rifts, however, are one-way tears between the Realms, created by the Chaos Beast. The Chaos Beast (in my imagination) doesn't change types randomly, but instead gradually changes its type to match the Realm it's in. It's programmed to attack weaker Pokemon and accumulate EXP. This explains the directionality of the Rifts: if the Chaos Beast stays in the Inferno Realm, it becomes Fire-type. In order to find foes it can beat, it tears a Rift into the Hive Realm. After harassing the Bug-types there, it finds it's become a Bug-type too. So it tears a Rift to skulk the Dream Realm. So on, and so forth. 

To be honest, I'm not a big fan of Hoopa. Something about that Pokemon just annoys me. Maybe it's the expression, maybe it's the association with one of the worst Pokemon films (or so I've heard it called). I just know I'd rather try to come up with something original for this particular story. I mean hey, if more than one Pokemon can be themed on time (Celebi, Dialga) then more than one Pokemon can be themed on interdimensional travel, right?

I get why you want one-way doors between the Realms, that can make exploring them feel more challenging and perilous not to mention maybe open up room for puzzles spanning multiple Realms. It's just a matter of how you execute that. If it's an active, stable portal, it really shouldn't be one-way. Short-term portals can be one-way, but then it's a matter of how they're triggered. I am interested in establishing a distinction between artificial portals like those created by the scientist versus "natural" rifts created by the Chaos Beast. Could be that the Home Realm's piece of the Beast was used to develop the technology in the first place.

17 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I'm imagining tracking down the Chaos Beast, trying to catch up with it and to stop it, to be a major element of the game. In fact, maybe the first* place you encounter the Chaos Beast could be the Draconic Realm? It's one of just two Realms (see also: Spirit) where it retains super-effectiveness after getting there. And since Dragon beats no other type, it won't create a Rift to any other Realm. Perhaps Hoopa could help "trap" it there, by closing the Portal, so you have to follow the Rifts to reach it?

*I say "First", but this might make more sense as a final encounter. In any other Realm, the Chaos Beast could create a Rift to escape your pursuit, but not so in the Draconic Realm.

The crux of the plot would at first revolve around the Team trying to gather its pieces and reassemble them into the original monstrosity. There could be a Zygarde-esque mechanic here where the Chaos Beast reforms piece by piece, becoming more powerful and dangerous. That said, it could certainly appear multiple times to cause trouble, presumably of an escalating scale.

Once the Beast is reformed, I imagine then the player is expected to battle it, or to undertake a quest to unite the Guardians (perhaps after freeing them if they've been captured) in order to challenge the Chaos Beast.

17 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

What if it had 18 eyes, each of a different color (each corresponding with a type, of course)? All but one would be closed at any given time, and it's signature attack could be a laser fired from its open eye.

Not a bad idea. I could see the eighteen types somehow being referenced in its design. You could totally turn that idea into a creature all its own, perhaps something similar to D&D's Beholder.

The theme of five is meant to reference 5 being the number of Chaos. As for its form, since it's, well, a chaotic Pokemon, its exact shape changes to match its current type. For example, as a Dragon-type, its form resembles a dragon with wings, legs, and a tail. As a Water-type, it could resemble a fish, starfish, or five-limbed cephalopod. As a Bug-type, it'd resemble a four-legged spider with one limb serving as the abdomen.

I picture its body being made of an ethereal substance that suggests its physical form is unstable and ever-shifting. That said, I do want there to be recurring details between its forms, much like there are for Deoxys. Its eyes could be one such consistent detail.

As for the Chaos Attack, that in itself changes form. A Fire-type Chaos Attack could resemble Flamethrower while an Electric-type CA could resemble Thunderbolt, as examples. Makes sense that a Pokemon whose form is ever changing would have a signature attack that's always different too, right? Just to play up the Chaos theme further, the power of the move could vary between 30, 60, 90, 120, and 150, which likewise could determine the form of the attack, or at least its intensity. A 30-power CA will look quite weak, on the level of something like Ember or Water Gun, while a 150-power CA is comparable to Blast Burn or Hydro Cannon. With 18 possible types as of now, that adds up to 90 possible different moves in one.

As for other moves it could use:

• Cosmic Power
• Gravity
• Guard Swap
• Hidden Power
• Magic Room
• Metronome
• Nature Power
• Power Swap
• Power Trick
• Psycho Shift
• Speed Swap
• Topsy-Turvy
• Trick Room
• Wonder Room
• Various form-specific moves

Edited March 25, 2022 by Lord_Brand

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

5 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

I guess they could just adopt the rule that every Pokemon in most of these realms is that realm's type (the one major exception being the Normal/Ordinary/Home Realm)? All Pokemon in the Metal Realm are Steel-type, all Pokemon in the Dragon Realm are Dragon-type, and so on. That way, you can have stuff like Steel/Ground Steelix in the Metal Realm and Grass/Poison Venusaur in the Forest Realm. But if all Pokemon in those realms are that realm's type, then Onix will need to be Steel/Ground as well. Though their typing suggests that Onix and Steelix would do better in the Subterra Realm than either the Lithic or Metal Realms.

Well, if Steelix would be an "apex predator" in the Steel Realm, wouldn't it be "nadir prey" in the Ground realm? I don't see why allowing a Pokemon who is weak to the Realm's STAB type would be any more balanced than allowing a Pokemon who has STAB over most other Mons in the realm. Basically, I don't think the "super-effective types internal to realms are disallowed" rule is a good idea.

5 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

The crux of the plot would at first revolve around the Team trying to gather its pieces and reassemble them into the original monstrosity. There could be a Zygarde-esque mechanic here where the Chaos Beast reforms piece by piece, becoming more powerful and dangerous. That said, it could certainly appear multiple times to cause trouble, presumably of an escalating scale.

One question: why? What is the evil team's motivation to reform the Chaos Beast? I'm not opposed to the Evil Team being involved with the Chaos Beast, but I would come at it from the opposite direction. The "Evil Team" are actually the enforcers of the region, who want to capture and destroy the Chaos Beast. You help them capture it, but when you learn they're trying to destroy it, you decide to save and release it. It didn't choose its nature or existence, and it's entitled to life just like any other Pokemon. You work with the scientist who collaborated with "Evil Team", as well as Hoopa, to construct a 19th realm where the Chaos Beast can live without disturbing other Pokemon.

5 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

I get why you want one-way doors between the Realms, that can make exploring them feel more challenging and perilous not to mention maybe open up room for puzzles spanning multiple Realms. It's just a matter of how you execute that. If it's an active, stable portal, it really shouldn't be one-way. Short-term portals can be one-way, but then it's a matter of how they're triggered. I am interested in establishing a distinction between artificial portals like those created by the scientist versus "natural" rifts created by the Chaos Beast. Could be that the Home Realm's piece of the Beast was used to develop the technology in the first place.

The rifts don't need to be permanent, or even long-lasting. Basically, they would be a sign that the Chaos Beast was recently there. So you go through them in sequences where you're "pursuing" it. The rifts cause chaos amidst the realms (i.e. Water-types invading the Inferno realm), so getting rid of them is a major motivation for stopping the Chaos Beast.

5 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

To be honest, I'm not a big fan of Hoopa. Something about that Pokemon just annoys me. Maybe it's the expression, maybe it's the association with one of the worst Pokemon films (or so I've heard it called). I just know I'd rather try to come up with something original for this particular story. I mean hey, if more than one Pokemon can be themed on time (Celebi, Dialga) then more than one Pokemon can be themed on interdimensional travel, right?

I've never seen Hoopa's movie, so I can't speak to that end. You could have a new and original Pokemon fulfill the role, sure, but if the premise is "this legendary creates and controls portals", I would be asking "why not use Hoopa?" It'd feel redundant having two legendaries with the same powers. As for Celebi vs. Dialga, while Celebi can jump through time, I don't think it's portrayed as a "master of time". Mew, for instance, has the ability to Teleport, but it's not a "master of space".

[Lord_Brand]

21 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

One question: why? What is the evil team's motivation to reform the Chaos Beast? I'm not opposed to the Evil Team being involved with the Chaos Beast, but I would come at it from the opposite direction. The "Evil Team" are actually the enforcers of the region, who want to capture and destroy the Chaos Beast. You help them capture it, but when you learn they're trying to destroy it, you decide to save and release it. It didn't choose its nature or existence, and it's entitled to life just like any other Pokemon. You work with the scientist who collaborated with "Evil Team", as well as Hoopa, to construct a 19th realm where the Chaos Beast can live without disturbing other Pokemon.

The rifts don't need to be permanent, or even long-lasting. Basically, they would be a sign that the Chaos Beast was recently there. So you go through them in sequences where you're "pursuing" it. The rifts cause chaos amidst the realms (i.e. Water-types invading the Inferno realm), so getting rid of them is a major motivation for stopping the Chaos Beast.

That's an interesting idea. Most evil Teams try to use the Legendary for their schemes, but this would be the first time they're hunting the legend with the intent of eliminating it. Only thing is, they're also supposed to be the ones funding the scientist's research, which would indicate an interest in the properties of the chaos portals themselves. On that note, what if the naturally-occurring passages were Rifts while the artificial recreations are Portals? Having the Beast escape through Rifts is an interesting idea. That, or it leads you through the Rifts with the intent of recollecting itself.

How about this: maybe the Team seeks the pieces of the Beast, but don't want to reform it outright? They want to use the individual pieces to create portals for their own uses. The Beast is the one manipulating you into gathering its pieces together. You're stuck being played like a chess piece by both the Team and the Beast up until the end. As for what happens once you finally defeat the Chaos Beast, well I imagine players would want to be able to catch the Beast and add it to their team. Hmm...perhaps the Chaos Beast is one Pokemon you have to catch twice? The first time, it joins you automatically, then it leaves your party once it's complete, and you can catch it either in the ensuing showdown with its true form or in a rematch?

The idea of creating a 19th Realm for the Chaos Beast itself is a cute idea, and a possible way to catch it/recatch it, but that's provided the Beast wants its own home. Being confined to its own world might feel stifling. Perhaps the Beast is creating rifts precisely because it wants to travel to different places?

21 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I've never seen Hoopa's movie, so I can't speak to that end. You could have a new and original Pokemon fulfill the role, sure, but if the premise is "this legendary creates and controls portals", I would be asking "why not use Hoopa?" It'd feel redundant having two legendaries with the same powers. As for Celebi vs. Dialga, while Celebi can jump through time, I don't think it's portrayed as a "master of time". Mew, for instance, has the ability to Teleport, but it's not a "master of space".

I'm starting to think a separate Pokemon isn't really needed here; the Chaos Beast seems to be adequate to carry the whole concept by itself, being the cause of all the rifts and indirectly the portals that facilitate the dimension-hopping.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Lord_Brand

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

6 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

That's an interesting idea. Most evil Teams try to use the Legendary for their schemes, but this would be the first time they're hunting the legend with the intent of eliminating it. Only thing is, they're also supposed to be the ones funding the scientist's research, which would indicate an interest in the properties of the chaos portals themselves. On that note, what if the naturally-occurring passages were Rifts while the artificial recreations are Portals? Having the Beast escape through Rifts is an interesting idea. That, or it leads you through the Rifts with the intent of recollecting itself.

So I took a walk, did some brainstorming, and here's what I've come up with:

The game is mainly set in the Home Realm, a world not unlike our own. Pokemon exist here, but as dangerous creatures, the right to capture, train, and own them is limited to a select few. Outside of registered Researchers and Trainers, the only lawful owners of Pokemon are the Enforcers. They are responsible for keeping the peace, punishing unlawful catching/buying/selling of Pokemon, and ensuring good relations with the Type Realms.

Each "Type Realm" is oriented around a single type, and has a Guardian, a Realmkeeper, and a Chaos Shard. Most Pokemon are of that Realm's type, so naturally Trainers in each realm tend to specify in a given realm (i.e. Bug Catchers in the "Hive Realm"). Each Realm has its own rules, but generally speaking, they're more relaxed about who can own Pokemon.

Recently, however, a new political wave has emerged. The President, just elected in a popular landslide, has proposed liberalizing his land's laws, letting more people become Pokemon Trainers, and curtailing the role of the Enforcers in the process.

The game opens with you, The Protagonist, on your first day on the job. It's the day after your 18th birthday, and you've been accepted as a Junior Enforcer. It's more to put Poffins on the table, but for your childhood friend, The Rival, it's a lifelong dream. She starts on the same day as you, and you're assigned to the same unit, under The Sergeant.

In Act I of the game, you get your "Pokemon partner" from the Sergeant, and go on missions with him and your Rival. These missions often take you through the Portals, to the Type Realms. Here, shady characters are at work. You try to stop them in conjunction with the Guardians and Realmkeepers, but somehow they always make it away with the Chaos Shards.

The climax comes as you're defending the last remaining Shard. You come face-to-face with the Chaos Priestess, who leads the "Chaos Cult". They believe that reuniting the shards, and reforming the Chaos Beast, will bring their land back to a golden age, wherein anyone can travel between Realms in an instant. You defeat and arrest her, but discover that the Shard she held was a fake - a crafty Underling has spirited away the real one. Reuniting with his comrades, he reawakens the long-dormant Chaos Beast.

At the start of Act II, you're promoted to Senior Enforcer, in light of your capture of a dangerous terrorist leader. Your Rival congratulates you, but secretly resents your achievement. You've got a bigger problem, however: the Chaos Beast is on the loose. This is where Rifts start appearing: while the Portals are a natural and regulated part of the world, the Rifts are unpredictable and uncontrollable.

Together with the Professor, who works for the Enforcers, you travel to the various Realms, and discover aspects of the Chaos Beast: first, that it changes type based on the Realm it's in; second, that it can tear Rifts between Realms, based on type-effectiveness; and third, that it seems possessed by a desire to attack people and Pokemon alike. Learning this, you spring a plan.

The Head Enforcer controls the portals, via his connection with the mythical Hoopa. Once you find the Chaos Beast in a Realm, you report it to the Head Enforcer, to close the associated Portal. The Chaos Beast keeps escaping by tearing Rifts, which you follow it through and repeat. Eventually, it finds itself trapped in the Draconic Realm. At the climax, you battle and capture the Chaos Beast, surrendering it to the Head Enforcer.

Act III starts, again, with a commedation from the Sergeant. All is not at ease, however. You overhear the Professor and the Head Enforcer arguing. The Professor wants to save and study the Chaos Beast, while the Head Enforcer insists it must be destroyed. This shakes your faith somewhat, but you still have a job to do.

The Sergeant, despite being stymied by higher-ups, sends you on a mission to track down the Underling - the Chaos Cult member who was directly responsible for reconstructing the Chaos Beast. You get to their HQ, and battle various Cultists, but find the Underling has fled. However, he left behind some damning papers - evidence that he was in cahoots with the Head Enforcer the whole time!

Unsure how to handle this, you share the news with your Rival. She seems sympathetic, but sensing an opportunity, she reports your suspicions to the Head Enforcer. On your next mission, you find the other Enforcers turn against you! The Sergeant buys you time to escape, however, and is arrested in your place.

You resolve that you can't led the Head Enforcer destroy the Chaos Beast - this whole thing reeks of conspiracy and cover-up. You join forces with the Professor, and seek counsel from the only one who knows more about the Beast - the Chaos Priestess. Together, you rescue the Chaos Beast from captivity - but not before a tearful battle with your Rival, now appointed Senior Enforcer in your place.

You get the Chaos Beast back, but it's a wide-open manhunt. You try to find shelter in the various type Realms - some Realmkeepers are sympathetic, others not so much. Eventually, the Professor discovers where another Portal to a stable Realm could be placed - but they'll need some help from Hoopa. In the process, you find that the Chaos Beast is starting to become more docile and even friendly, having a Trainer around.

The climax comes when you lure the Enforcers to a spot in the Home Realm - the perfect spot for a new Portal. The Head Enforcer has arrived, and he's brought Hoopa with him. He tries to convince Hoopa to generate a one-way portal, sending you, the Professor, and the Chaos Beast away permanently. Hoopa, however, is determined to battle you and the Beast. By demonstrating the trust between you and the Beast, and besting it in battle, it will construct a portal to a stable Realm - one where the Chaos Beast can live peaceably with other Pokemon and people.

In the Epilogue, the Head Enforcer resigns in disgrace, based largely on evidence you acquired from the Underling. You are offered leadership of the Enforcers, but decline, as it was always your Rival's dream job. With the Head Enforcer's duplicity exposed, the President's agenda passes easily, and the opportunity to capture and raise Pokemon - and travel through Portals - has been made more widely-available than ever before. You resign from the Enforcers, intent on taking some time off to - as the kids say - "catch 'em all"!

Whew, what a mouthful! How's that sound? A kind of game you'd ve keen on playing? Or not quite up your alley? Any tweaks you might suggest?

[Lord_Brand]

A Pokemon game where your character is a de facto adult is an interesting prospect. The oldest confirmed age we have in the games is 15 in Legends: Arceus, while XY hints that Calem and Serena may be full-grown adults (which, depending on where you live, could be 16 or 18). The Enforcer/Chaos Cult dual antagonist angle is also interesting, something different from both the Aqua/Magma rivalry in RS and the Skull-Aether alliance in SM. Kinda reminds me of my Team Anarchy/Team Authority concept for Pokemon Order and Pokemon Chaos (or maybe Liberty).

My intent was something simpler: the Home Realm is the Pokemon world we know where most of the games take place (though I acknowledge that this means Normal-types don't really get a dedicated realm, but to be fair, neither do Ghost-types as their Realm plays a special role as the afterlife). I wasn't intending on there being humans native to the other Realms, though I guess it could be interesting to have either humans or, crazy idea, analogous humanoids that catch and train Pokemon as well. For example, the inhabitants of the Sea Realm are essentially merfolk, while those of the Forest Realm have foliage growing out of their bodies akin to dryads. Alternatively, you could encounter Pokemon able to speak the human tongue, making them NPCs you can interact with similar to humans from the Home Realm.

As for the basic plot, I'm deciding whether this would be more like a typical "Version A and Version B" Pokemon game or if it would be something more experimental like Legends: Arceus (I know which one you'd pick, of course). I think I'd want there to be an element of, well, normalcy in the plot to help provide contrast with the dimension-hopping that ensues not long into the story. That said, I don't know if I'd go for the whole Enforcers plotline as that would already make the story feel markedly different (not to mention be a ripe goldmine for some kind of darker and edgier spinoff a la Colosseum).

Instead of the usual "beat the Gym Leaders and become a Master" plot, you could be one of the professor's assistants who's helping them investigate and study some strange phenomena that's been happening recently in the region where the game takes place (letting us dive into the good stuff ASAP). During one such investigation, three rifts open - one through which leaves and foliage emerge, one that belches fire, and one that produces bubbles and water. From each, a Pokemon emerges, ready to attack. The Professor produces three Pokemon of their own and asks you and your fellow assistant to each choose one of the three while they will take the third and use them to fend off the attackers. The three Pokemon available are of course Grass, Fire, and Water-type. Based on which Starter you pick, the professor instructs you to fight the attacker weak to your starter.

After the battle, the professor notes that hostile Pokemon have been emerging from many of the rifts reported across the region. The professor and their assistants are part of a new defense force formed to discover the cause of these rifts and a way to stop them, as well as deal with any hostile Pokemon that step through.

As you travel the region, rifts will occasionally open up, sending wild Pokemon to battle you. You eventually find a large rift through which a huge draconic Pokemon emerges. A strange humanoid being resembling some kind of fairy (or a Fairy-type Pokemon) protects you from the monster and pulls you through a smaller rift to escape into their realm, a fantastical place where Fairy-type Pokemon abound. The fairy-like being tells you that you stand in the Fairy Realm, which is also suffering random rift attacks as your own world is doing, and many others. You're brought to meet the Guardian Pokemon of the Fairy Realm, who explains the situation to you.

Ten years ago in your world, a human scientist discovered a strange object that exhibited transdimensional properties. As is the wont of many humans, the scientist was overcome by curiosity and conducted experiments on the object, figuring out how to open artificial rifts by harnessing the object's power. What the scientist did not know is that the object in question was a piece of the Chaos Beast, a formidable creature that the Fairy Realm Guardian, along with many others, broke apart and sealed away long ago. For ages, they kept watch over the pieces of the beast, preventing them from opening rifts in an attempt to reform itself. But, something must have happened to one of the Guardians, that the human scientist was able to get a hold of the Chaos Piece in your world.

Tragically, one of the scientist's experiments went awry: a member of their family was pulled into one of the rifts, which closed behind them. The scientist was overcome with grief and desperately tried to find where their loved one had gone, however the company funding their research cut off support, citing that the experiments were too dangerous. In desperation, the scientist turned to a criminal organization that had learned of their experiments and took an interest in the potential of dimensional travel. A bargain was struck; the scientist would develop rift portals for the team to use, and in turn would be aided in searching for their missing child.

Lately, more and more rifts and portals have opened, leading the Fairy Guardian to believe that the other Guardians are somehow being incapacitated, possibly by the organization. The Guardians have noted the existence of the defense force of which you are a part, and are interested in forming an alliance in order to restore peace to the Realms. You are then sent to find the Professor and the leader of the defense force to bring to the Fairy Realm so that they may properly organize countermeasures against the Beast.

I'll have to leave for work in a bit, so I'll have to stop there for now. I imagine it'd probably be preferable to piece everything together over time rather than have a Guardian spell it out 5-10 hours in, but the way I see it, sooner or later the player's going to run into a Guardian who can explain what's going on more properly, and the sooner the Chaos Beast enters the picture, the sooner the player can begin the dimension-hopping adventure proper. Taking input into account, I can probably write out a more elaborate story that introduces the evil Team and the scientist before the whole Fairy Realm bit later.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Guess I never followed up on this...

On 3/26/2022 at 5:32 PM, Lord_Brand said:

A Pokemon game where your character is a de facto adult is an interesting prospect. The oldest confirmed age we have in the games is 15 in Legends: Arceus, while XY hints that Calem and Serena may be full-grown adults (which, depending on where you live, could be 16 or 18). The Enforcer/Chaos Cult dual antagonist angle is also interesting, something different from both the Aqua/Magma rivalry in RS and the Skull-Aether alliance in SM. Kinda reminds me of my Team Anarchy/Team Authority concept for Pokemon Order and Pokemon Chaos (or maybe Liberty).

Well, per the Wiki, Hilbert and Hilda (of BW) are 14 years old, while Wes (of Colosseum) is "about 17". Not sure where the notion that Calem and Serena may be adults comes from. Having a codified 18-year-old protagonist would be unusual, but I think it opens up new storytelling avenues.

On 3/26/2022 at 5:32 PM, Lord_Brand said:

My intent was something simpler: the Home Realm is the Pokemon world we know where most of the games take place (though I acknowledge that this means Normal-types don't really get a dedicated realm, but to be fair, neither do Ghost-types as their Realm plays a special role as the afterlife). I wasn't intending on there being humans native to the other Realms, though I guess it could be interesting to have either humans or, crazy idea, analogous humanoids that catch and train Pokemon as well. For example, the inhabitants of the Sea Realm are essentially merfolk, while those of the Forest Realm have foliage growing out of their bodies akin to dryads. Alternatively, you could encounter Pokemon able to speak the human tongue, making them NPCs you can interact with similar to humans from the Home Realm.

The "humanoid analogues" are intriguing. Are they humans who discovered the realms and gradually mutated, or totally different species? Maybe the Rock Realm could have ersatz Gorons, while the Ice Realm is home to Norse-style Frost Giants. I do think there should be interactive NPCs in each realm, so that the realms don't feel lacking in culture or character.

On 3/26/2022 at 5:32 PM, Lord_Brand said:

As for the basic plot, I'm deciding whether this would be more like a typical "Version A and Version B" Pokemon game or if it would be something more experimental like Legends: Arceus (I know which one you'd pick, of course). I think I'd want there to be an element of, well, normalcy in the plot to help provide contrast with the dimension-hopping that ensues not long into the story. That said, I don't know if I'd go for the whole Enforcers plotline as that would already make the story feel markedly different (not to mention be a ripe goldmine for some kind of darker and edgier spinoff a la Colosseum).

Versions could work here - maybe neither version has all the Realms, with some being exclusive to one Version or the other. You could still visit the other Realms in a "co-op mode" with a friend who has the other Version. Or just eschew Versions altogether, but make it so that, outside of, say, 4 "fixed" Realms, each playthrough gets access to 6 of the other 13 Realms, randomized from the start of the game. It could enhance replayability, at least.

On 3/26/2022 at 5:32 PM, Lord_Brand said:

Instead of the usual "beat the Gym Leaders and become a Master" plot, you could be one of the professor's assistants who's helping them investigate and study some strange phenomena that's been happening recently in the region where the game takes place (letting us dive into the good stuff ASAP). During one such investigation, three rifts open - one through which leaves and foliage emerge, one that belches fire, and one that produces bubbles and water. From each, a Pokemon emerges, ready to attack. The Professor produces three Pokemon of their own and asks you and your fellow assistant to each choose one of the three while they will take the third and use them to fend off the attackers. The three Pokemon available are of course Grass, Fire, and Water-type. Based on which Starter you pick, the professor instructs you to fight the attacker weak to your starter.

Ah, so we're back to the classic "Water/Fire/Grass" trio. That said, it feels like you're missing a great opportunity here. Instead of letting the player choose which starter they go with, why not let them choose which portal they go through? Partnered with a Normal-type rental Pokemon from the professor, you travel through a portal of your choosing, with the goal of fighting and capturing the Mon who lies within. This could serve as a "tutorial battle", where the Professor directs you when to attack and when to throw the ball, thus getting the "catching tutorial" out of the way in a manner that streamlines with the player's experience. Plus, "catch your own starter" has never really been done before (Yellow saw Professor Oak catch Pikachu for you), and could enhance the feeling of "ownership" involved.

I do like the idea of playing a "Professor's Assistant" role, since in most games, that job goes to an NPC, like Brendan/May, Dawn/Lucas, or Sonia. But it seems like there's a lot of potential there!

Broadly speaking further on your proposed plot, it generally has my interest. There's fewer politics and moral intrigues at play than in my proposal, which honestly makes yours more realistic, since Pokemon is hardly a series known for such narrative turns. I really liked how Sun & Moon did Team Skull and the Aether Foundation - one gang of ne'er-do-wells, and one institution with a dark underbelly - and I definitely took inspiration from Gen VII in constructing the "Chaos Cult" and the "Enforcers". But an evil team who sees profit in fast trans-dimensional travel... I think there's great potential there.

That's what I think for the time being, but I'm all-ears in case you've got more!