Hero Class

[Barren]

48 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Yeah, I'd imagine Vengeance with Dedue was already good enough without Defiant Strength. C+ in Swords is definitely achievable (and I assume any non-gimmicky build for Dedue will involve some raising of Axes), but I was more thinking about his forced benching - it's relatively tight to get Dedue up to scratch for a Maddening NG endgame, even without a dip into swords and mastering Hero. Not impossible though, I guess. 

If Dedue's Vengeance skillset were Lance Prowess, Defiant Strength, Death Blow, Battalion Wrath, Defensive Tactics (which is what you're suggesting above?) then he definitely packs a wallop, but is splitting the skillset between low-HP and low battalion-HP the best way of going about things? Genuine question, from someone who doesn't do either.

The set you described is pretty much what I was going with. I just replaced defiant strength with HP+5 because it requires a lot less work and having higher HP to work with is always a good thing.
 

If you were to run both defiant strength and battalion wrath with defensive tactics, you would probably need to have dedue lower is own HP while securing KOs/locking enemies down with a battalion  like a hero’s relic or a devil weapon. Then when his HP is lowered enough to 25% of his max HP or less then you reap the benefits.

The problem with running both defiant strength and battalion wrath is that managing both HP and your battalion’s endurance is very tricky. Sometimes it’s just not worth it. If anything War Master Dedue can pull off the battalion wrath set better once he gets Quick Riposte. Having at least a 70% chance to crit on enemy phase is quite scary.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Barren

[haarhaarhaar]

3 minutes ago, Barren said:

The set you described is pretty much what I was going with. I just replaced defiant strength with HP+5 because it requires a lot less work and having higher HP to work with is always a good thing.
 

If you were to run both defiant strength and battalion wrath with defensive tactics, you would probably need to have dedue lower is own HP while securing KOs/locking enemies down with a battalion  like a hero’s relic or a devil weapon. Then when his HP is lowered enough to 25% of his max HP or less then you reap the benefits.

The problem with running both defiant strength and battalion wrath is that managing both HP and your battalion’s endurance is very tricky. Sometimes it’s just not worth it. If anything War Master Dedue can pull off the battalion wrath set better once he gets Quick Riposte. Having at least a 70% chance to crit on enemy phase is quite scary.

Yeah, managing two thresholds is plenty tough - but I was thinking just as much about the opportunity cost of Defensive Tactics (and maybe even Battalion Wrath), when there are other skills Vengeance Dedue would appreciate (ie. Swordbreaker, normal Wrath or Hit+20 if you can get them, Lance Crit/Lancefaire when you meet those thresholds, even HP+5 has a good enough case). I just figured if you were doubling down on Dedue as a Player Phase cannon with Vengeance, then you wouldn't spend two skill slots on battalion abilities.

[Barren]

9 minutes ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Yeah, managing two thresholds is plenty tough - but I was thinking just as much about the opportunity cost of Defensive Tactics (and maybe even Battalion Wrath), when there are other skills Vengeance Dedue would appreciate (ie. Swordbreaker, normal Wrath or Hit+20 if you can get them, Lance Crit/Lancefaire when you meet those thresholds, even HP+5 has a good enough case). I just figured if you were doubling down on Dedue as a Player Phase cannon with Vengeance, then you wouldn't spend two skill slots on battalion abilities.

It generally depends on what your goal is honestly. In my case I went with a basic build of lance prowess, HP+ 5, Defense +2, Death Blow and Dex +4 and he was still able to pull off Vengeance quite nicely once he had Paladin unlocked.
 

At one point while he was a cavalier, during the Sothis paralogue, he sustained a critical hit from a giant bird that left him at 2 HP. I had a Leather Shield I think equipped. But that caught me off guard at first because I thought I lost him somehow. But he didn’t get doubled interestingly enough (must have been during player phase since I know giant birds tend to carry darting blow). But then he just cleaned house on basically every monster afterwards.

I have replaced dex +4 with battalion wrath at a later point with his authority at rank b so he was able to get duscar heavy soldiers. That plus silver shield as mentioned already makes him quite a mobile tank that can deal crits on EP and when on low HP one shot on PP. It should be noted though that unless you get lucky enough with the yellow spirits, the B. Wrath build is a short term effective build that can only last as long as it can. That’s why defensive tactics is useful in this situation.

It’s also why when people tell you that Dimitri’s battalion vantage + battalion wrath combo is reliable and powerful they aren’t kidding. That has it’s draw backs as well but overall one of the best wrath sets in this game.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, RaIsMyPet said:

BUT, I’m genuinely curious if anyone really optimized Dedue’s vengeance and onetwo punch build because I never have and it sounds at least has some depth. Vengeance and vantage+wrath, def strength , desperation with one-two punch, maybe throw in defiant crit in NG+ seems a good combo to me IF setup. I hope to hear from any people who really tried optimized Dedue. 

I'ma be honest, this ain't worth it. Vantage/Wrath is too inconsistent, which is not a good thing when the whole build requires low health to even work in the first place, and Defiant significantly increases the risk.

[Bylift]

15 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

*Fun fact about the Dark Knights: they only have four shots of Death. Run them out and they can't do anything. This is useful on some challenge runs because the game will never spawn more than three at once, so if you run those three out of Death and leave them alive, no more will come.

Now that IS interesting. I didn't realize there was an on-screen limit. Does the same limit apply to the WM reinforcements?

The AM final map has so many triggers and quirks. I just had a hell of a time beating it my first maddening run with no bow knights, a lousy dodge tank in Ingrid, and no idea what to do while Edelgard was critting my team from the other side of the map. I got at least 2 game overs and when I finally solved the map it took over 3 hours of high-stress gameplay. That was the map that really made me appreciate retribution and impregnable wall.

[RaIsMyPet]

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

 

Yep, that's fair. I dislike juggernauting in general, but I won't deny that would you propose would be effective.

For sword-only, I didn't use Trickster much (my magic sword ladies went through Valkyrie/Dark Flier for more mobility and faith spell uses, even though I wasn't allowed to use Reason) but I did use several Assassins, for the exact idea you're proposing: comboing Stealth with a Wyvern dodgetanks. I was definitely very happy with that interaction.

I see. I think Lysithea and Constance should not be trickster for better ranged warp/rescue as you said. But Marianne and Dorothea I think trickster provides more utility with Foul Play.

I once did a "harem" run with MByleth and all the magic ladies, squishy archers and my favorite dodge tank, intended to challenge my dodge tank build. Ironically, it turned out to be much easier because how much leeway I have with Foul Play adjustments and Bernie's encloser.

Bonus fun fact: a 80% mage team is actually making part of early game (ch4, 5) much easier than a normal team, because enemy mages are so busted back then, and mage team can keep healing/warding each other for stupid exp gains, as long as you have one good physical tank.

[RaIsMyPet]

1 minute ago, Bylift said:

Now that IS interesting. I didn't realize there was an on-screen limit. Does the same limit apply to the WM reinforcements?

The AM final map has so many triggers and quirks. I just had a hell of a time beating it my first maddening run with no bow knights, a lousy dodge tank in Ingrid, and no idea what to do while Edelgard was critting my team from the other side of the map. I got at least 2 game overs and when I finally solved the map it took over 3 hours of high-stress gameplay. That was the map that really made me appreciate retribution and impregnable wall.

Then try my Petra sword avo + BW build. First turn retribution and let her tour the entire map killing Myson, all the bolting mages, enter throne room to shut down Edelgard's stupid range and killing bolting reinforcements, and end with blocking Dark Knights reinforcements. Just plan her grand tourism a bit for the optimal effect. In just 5 turns even if you don't move your other units you can now casually walk into the throne room, pick up the few remainders, sub Petra out of the stair way to block the other side WMs. And then kill the final boss with your WM Felix and some help. Easy and done.

[RaIsMyPet]

8 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'ma be honest, this ain't worth it. Vantage/Wrath is too inconsistent, which is not a good thing when the whole build requires low health to even work in the first place, and Defiant significantly increases the risk.

Oh I know it's not worth it. I mean it's one of the few gimmick which I deem at least have "some depth" I haven't tried. I'm looking for someone who really tried hard to optimize it and see how it really is.

[Bylift]

Just now, RaIsMyPet said:

Then try my Petra sword avo + BW build. First turn retribution and let her tour the entire map killing Myson, all the bolting mages, enter throne room to shut down Edelgard's stupid range and killing bolting reinforcements, and end with blocking Dark Knights reinforcements. Just plan her grand tourism a bit for the optimal effect. In just 5 turns even if you don't move your other units you can now casually walk into the throne room, pick up the few remainders, sub Petra out of the stair way to block the other side WMs. And then kill the final boss with your WM Felix and some help. Easy and done.

I've done similar things using other units and had the same result. I'll try using BW with Petra though. I just don't like using an ability slot on something like that and getting it set up beforehand sounds tedious to me, but what the hell.

Not to dredge this up again, but Petra or Ingrid still run into issues with enemy gambits (/ducks) 

[Barren]

6 minutes ago, Bylift said:

I've done similar things using other units and had the same result. I'll try using BW with Petra though. I just don't like using an ability slot on something like that and getting it set up beforehand sounds tedious to me, but what the hell.

Not to dredge this up again, but Petra or Ingrid still run into issues with enemy gambits (/ducks) 

Ingrid at least has a good charm stat and charm growth to reliably dodge gambits whereas petra would have that issue. If you want to throw off their AI or at least gain a higher chance to avoid gambits rally charm would do the trick.

[RaIsMyPet]

23 minutes ago, Barren said:

Ingrid at least has a good charm stat and charm growth to reliably dodge gambits whereas petra would have that issue. If you want to throw off their AI or at least gain a higher chance to avoid gambits rally charm would do the trick.

I have presented the calculation earlier that even with no extra teatime, Petra has low charm is a myth.

For AM final chapter specifically, almost all gambits are Blessing.

Gambit is the only thing every EP build has, so not really a downside as long as you keep the Hit rate below 30, and don't risk getting hit by multiple (which is actually easy because enemies with gambits are still relatively sparse and I'm sure you have the skill to place your unit right)

[Bylift]

57 minutes ago, RaIsMyPet said:

I have presented the calculation earlier that even with no extra teatime, Petra has low charm is a myth.

For AM final chapter specifically, almost all gambits are Blessing.

I'm on Ch. 16 of SS and using War Monk Petra AND Wyvern Ingrid. I'm fairly sure I gave Petra a couple stat boosters for charm, but can't remember exactly.

When I get to the last map I'll let you know what their charm stats are doing vs. the enemies. I realize it's just one data point. I respect calculations but every run is different. So I may be drawing on personal experience to a fault.

Too bad It's a ladies only run. I could have been using heroes otherwise! 🙃

[RaIsMyPet]

2 hours ago, Bylift said:

I'm on Ch. 16 of SS and using War Monk Petra AND Wyvern Ingrid. I'm fairly sure I gave Petra a couple stat boosters for charm, but can't remember exactly.

When I get to the last map I'll let you know what their charm stats are doing vs. the enemies. I realize it's just one data point. I respect calculations but every run is different. So I may be drawing on personal experience to a fault.

Too bad It's a ladies only run. I could have been using heroes otherwise! 🙃

Good to know. Also keep in mind two dodge tanks is usually worse than one, because the weaker one drags the stronger one down. Happened to me a lot with Wyvern Petra + Wyvern Ferdinand, so I ended with “primary-secondary” scheme instead: one for normal use, the other for emergencies when I screw up.

In your case my guess it’s kind of OK. A weak version of Petra and strong version of Ingrid might be about the same with some give and take so no one is really slowing the other down.

[Dark Holy Elf]

9 hours ago, Bylift said:

Now that IS interesting. I didn't realize there was an on-screen limit. Does the same limit apply to the WM reinforcements?

The AM final map has so many triggers and quirks. I just had a hell of a time beating it my first maddening run with no bow knights, a lousy dodge tank in Ingrid, and no idea what to do while Edelgard was critting my team from the other side of the map. I got at least 2 game overs and when I finally solved the map it took over 3 hours of high-stress gameplay. That was the map that really made me appreciate retribution and impregnable wall.

I haven't hit the War Master limit myself, but I'd assume so. Of course, the War Masters don't run out of weapons so easily (you can actually drain a Dark Knight in two actions: bait with a res-tank/gambit-buffed unit/etc. who can survive doubled Death, then attack them on the following player phase yourself. Poof, 4 shots of Death all gone). Regardless, if you want to put a good dodgetank on duty there, it should be easy enough to chokepoint such that you only face one per turn, or occasionally two if you kill the first on a counter.

And yeah I really like that map.

9 hours ago, RaIsMyPet said:

I see. I think Lysithea and Constance should not be trickster for better ranged warp/rescue as you said. But Marianne and Dorothea I think trickster provides more utility with Foul Play.

 

I personally don't feel Foul Play is good enough to justify staying in Trickster, especially since all my mages already have Draw Back. And of course, you don't even get Foul Play until mastering the class (at which point I was strongly angling towards Mortal Savant... Swordfaire!) And you really give up quite a lot. Two uses of Physic. 5 move instead of 6-7 (which is more important than normal since these characters can't rely on huge range with Thoron/Meteor). Lower magic stat and no Uncanny Blow mastery (which unlike Foul Play, you carry into your next class) in the case of Valkyrie. No Canto (although Stealth is certainly cool).

In fairness Trickster would be a cheaper class to get into since swords+faith are the skills I was building anyway, but honestly the mage builds were all cheap anyway due to being able to shortchange Reason (I don't think anyone went past C+) instead of trying to rush it to S.

[Bylift]

On 4/13/2022 at 1:44 PM, RaIsMyPet said:

Good to know. Also keep in mind two dodge tanks is usually worse than one, because the weaker one drags the stronger one down. Happened to me a lot with Wyvern Petra + Wyvern Ferdinand, so I ended with “primary-secondary” scheme instead: one for normal use, the other for emergencies when I screw up.

In your case my guess it’s kind of OK. A weak version of Petra and strong version of Ingrid might be about the same with some give and take so no one is really slowing the other down.

I tend to divide my forces in 2 on the final SS and AM map. So, two dodge tanks is helpful. To each their own. I don’t know what you mean by weak Petra. She was a War Monk with brigid hunters, evasion ring, brawl 5, and brawl avo+20 and had 118 avoid. After breaking Rhea’s shield, she essentially soloed the rest of the final boss battle. But anywho…

—-

ABOUT CHARM: So I finished my latest SS maddening run today and on the final map my Lv. 43 Petra had base 29 Charm (I had given her +4 or +5 in black pearls or golden apples, mind you). I cooked up 3 charming soups the final month (+6ch) and she had her brigid mercenaries (Edit: hunters, not mercenaries lol), which is +7.

In total her charm was 42. 

Enemies charm stats on that map can be looked up but I recall seeing gremories with 46 charm (lol) and resonant lighting. Enemy Falcon Knights only had 38. Heroes and various Cavalry had charm hovering around 40. Rhea’s charm is an insane 52 lol.

She got rattled twice on the map which led to pulses.

So, IDK man. I tried pretty hard to build her charm. I could have done more tea. I could have done one more charming soup if I had the nordsalat. I could have given her a different battalion with more charm, but she needed the AVO and her paralogue battalion is really well suited to her build with the extra crit and avoid. I didn’t give her all of my charm boosters but I gave her more than her fair share, and at the end of the day she was about on par with the enemies on the final map. 

Just one data point. But I think it’s fair to say if you REALLY WANT to make Petra resistant to gambits, yes it’s possible, just like most things in this game. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Bylift
wrong word used

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

2 hours ago, Bylift said:

So, IDK man. I tried pretty hard to build her charm. I could have done more tea. I could have done one more charming soup if I had the nordsalat. I could have given her a different battalion with more charm, but she needed the AVO and her paralogue battalion is really well suited to her build with the extra crit and avoid. I didn’t give her all of my charm boosters but I gave her more than her fair share, and at the end of the day she was about on par with the enemies on the final map. 

Rally Charm from Manuela or Dorothea would've been an additional +8. I dunno, if I were me, I'd probably have done that before dedicating three cooking sessions to Charm. Of course, you have to reapply that one every turn.

"Golden Deer Bracelet" or whatever replaces it is another potential +2 Charm, but I'm guessing she had something more important equipped.

[Bylift]

20 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Rally Charm from Manuela or Dorothea would've been an additional +8. I dunno, if I were me, I'd probably have done that before dedicating three cooking sessions to Charm. Of course, you have to reapply that one every turn.

"Golden Deer Bracelet" or whatever replaces it is another potential +2 Charm, but I'm guessing she had something more important equipped.

In fact I did use rally charm for engaging Rhea and breaking her shield. That said, I didn’t boost Petra because others had better chance to hit and bigger gambits. Poison tactic isn’t the worst but resonant fire/lightning can take out her whole shield in two shots. Mercedes and Flayn did the honors.

I had trickster Manuela and Valkyrie Dorothea and rally charm equipped on both.

I humbly submit that cooking for charm in the final month of SS is a good idea unless you’re able to do Fodlans best or some such.  Even then, I’ve had to burn pulses on low-chance gambits missing vs. Rheas shield before and it’s no bueno. Agree it might not be ideal on all routes though. 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Bylift said:

In fact I did use rally charm for engaging Rhea and breaking her shield. That said, I didn’t boost Petra because others had better chance to hit and bigger gambits. Poison tactic isn’t the worst but resonant fire/lightning can take out her whole shield in two shots. Mercedes and Flayn did the honors.

Sounds solid. Yeah Petra likely wouldn't be the pick for offensive gambits.

2 hours ago, Bylift said:

humbly submit that cooking for charm in the final month of SS is a good idea unless you’re able to do Fodlans best or some such.  Even then, I’ve had to burn pulses on low-chance gambits missing vs. Rheas shield before and it’s no bueno. Agree it might not be ideal on all routes though. 

You... may very well be right. I never really cook strategically, I just use whatever I have the most of. Which, from "Fistfuls of Fish" until the end of the game, is either Skill, Speed, or Defense. But it'd be hard for me to make a case that +2 Skill from Queen Loach is superior to +2 Charm from Nordsalat.

[Barren]

I’m at the end of silver snow maddening myself and I’ve spent 4 out of the 5 weekends cooking using the best of fodlan boosting everyone’s stats by 4. I guess I got lucky with the ingredients needed for it to work. The last week I had Petra master Wyvern Lord to get defiant crit. She already has defiant avoid so I’m thinking on using both along with alert stance+ of course.

[RaIsMyPet]

15 hours ago, Bylift said:

I tend to divide my forces in 2 on the final SS and AM map. So, two dodge tanks is helpful. To each their own. I don’t know what you mean by weak Petra. She was a War Monk with brigid hunters, evasion ring, brawl 5, and brawl avo+20 and had 118 avoid. After breaking Rhea’s shield, she essentially soloed the rest of the final boss battle. But anywho…

—-

ABOUT CHARM: So I finished my latest SS maddening run today and on the final map my Lv. 43 Petra had base 29 Charm (I had given her +4 or +5 in black pearls or golden apples, mind you). I cooked up 3 charming soups the final month (+6ch) and she had her brigid mercenaries (Edit: hunters, not mercenaries lol), which is +7.

In total her charm was 42. 

Enemies charm stats on that map can be looked up but I recall seeing gremories with 46 charm (lol) and resonant lighting. Enemy Falcon Knights only had 38. Heroes and various Cavalry had charm hovering around 40. Rhea’s charm is an insane 52 lol.

She got rattled twice on the map which led to pulses.

So, IDK man. I tried pretty hard to build her charm. I could have done more tea. I could have done one more charming soup if I had the nordsalat. I could have given her a different battalion with more charm, but she needed the AVO and her paralogue battalion is really well suited to her build with the extra crit and avoid. I didn’t give her all of my charm boosters but I gave her more than her fair share, and at the end of the day she was about on par with the enemies on the final map. 

Just one data point. But I think it’s fair to say if you REALLY WANT to make Petra resistant to gambits, yes it’s possible, just like most things in this game. 

By weak I meant that War Monk is just a bad class. You are losing flying, Avo+10, and 8 mov, a lot more strength (since she almost guaranteed to crit, even like 5 strengh lost will be an insane 15~30 damage lost) Bridgid Hunter is a very subpar battalion with no Hit boost. People make this mistake a lot by relying on battalions to provide avo which should not be the case: your survivability should not be dependent on something losable.

Also, that gremory in silver snow is an outlier with insane Hit so you want your PP units to deal with (I can enumerate like 5 or so such outlier generic mages in the entire game that dodge tanks cannot reliably tank without grinding)

If you are rattled by falcons, by the look it’s just bad luck, not really charm problem, and if you are rattled by holy knight(?) then I guess you have to learn to place your dodge tank better. The holy knight has more attack range than gambit range, so you can bait him into attacking by placing dodge tanks at the boundary of his range.

People often not thinking things through enough for gambit enemies. Ranged enemies can be baited into attacking with proper placing and it’s actually quite common. The art of using dodge tank has to be learned I guess.

Your result just further confirmed my claim about charm problem: it’s not really a problem if you know how to, without grinding.

 

Edit: Rhea’s charm is irrelevant, super bosses tend to have sky high charms, and you mostly relying on Hit+20, Uncanny Blow, and support to hit with gambit, and Rhea can’t gambit you.

Edited April 15, 2022 by RaIsMyPet
add point about Rhea

[RaIsMyPet]

I think I made a lot of bold (?) claims about reliability of dodge tanks. Maybe I should detail in a separate post on how to properly build one and how to use it effectively (i.e. to address the “variable mileage” problem), and common mistakes or misconceptions.

Teaser feature: Some of you might know this already, but I don’t suppose everyone thought this through: do you know sometimes you can use retribution to kill ballistas? If the ballista is a sniper with 1-range gambit, then placing dodge tank at 2-range will bait the sniper into attacking you normally, because ballista has minimal 3-range. Small details (a lot of them) like this will make your dodge tank mileage wildly different.

Edited April 15, 2022 by RaIsMyPet

[Dark Holy Elf]

1 hour ago, RaIsMyPet said:

If the ballista is a sniper with 1-range gambit, then placing dodge tank at 2-range will bait the sniper into attacking you normally, because ballista has minimal 3-range.

That's a neat piece of trivia, but unless I'm missing something, the only way to actually use this is if your dodgetank is within 2 squares of the ballista and nobody else is within 10-15 (depending on ballista range). That's not often very practical. (Besides, if you can get that close to a ballista, you can usually just kill its user with a player phase attack.)

 

1 hour ago, RaIsMyPet said:

People make this mistake a lot by relying on battalions to provide avo which should not be the case: your survivability should not be dependent on something losable.

Definitely don't think this is a mistake. If you're not using Battalion Wrath, the chance of a dodgetank's battalion retreating in a given fight is essentially nil. Most of the relevant battalions have over 100 durability, so you'd need to somehow take 200 damage on a unit who will very rarely take any at all. And if you are using Battalion Wrath, you still want to try very hard not to let your battalion retreat, because if it does the build all but stops functioning (with Cichol Wyverns, you just lost 65 crit and 21 damage per crit, for instance). Using a battalion to boost avoid is a good idea because it gets you that much closer to perfect evasion. Obviously if you can get there without the battalion's boost, even better, but that's not always possible.

[RaIsMyPet]

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

That's a neat piece of trivia, but unless I'm missing something, the only way to actually use this is if your dodgetank is within 2 squares of the ballista and nobody else is within 10-15 (depending on ballista range). That's not often very practical. (Besides, if you can get that close to a ballista, you can usually just kill its user with a player phase attack.)

 

Definitely don't think this is a mistake. If you're not using Battalion Wrath, the chance of a dodgetank's battalion retreating in a given fight is essentially nil. Most of the relevant battalions have over 100 durability, so you'd need to somehow take 200 damage on a unit who will very rarely take any at all. And if you are using Battalion Wrath, you still want to try very hard not to let your battalion retreat, because if it does the build all but stops functioning (with Cichol Wyverns, you just lost 65 crit and 21 damage per crit, for instance). Using a battalion to boost avoid is a good idea because it gets you that much closer to perfect evasion. Obviously if you can get there without the battalion's boost, even better, but that's not always possible.

For first point, your army is split into two directions and dodge tanks sometimes must wait for avoid since there are other enemies around. Your main group should not go with your dodge tank in general

For second, I’m not talking about durability. When you are rattled, you instantly lose all avo from battalion and more.

In general, if you are only using dodge tank as a glorified bait and switch, then you can forget about everything I said. I have more ambition in mind, namely double or even triple your offensive and defensive power and coverage.

Edited April 15, 2022 by RaIsMyPet
add more points

[Bylift]

2 minutes ago, RaIsMyPet said:

For first point, your army is split into two directions and dodge tanks sometimes must wait for avoid since there are other enemies around. Your main group should not go with your dodge tank in general

For second, I’m not talking about durability. When you are rattled, you instantly lose all avo from battalion and more.

Hey RalsMyPet,

Thanks for the reply, just a couple responses:

Brigid Hunters gives extra crit, lots of avoid, at least some extra damage and is B rank. It also has base 60 hit (20% better than most wide-area gambits like resonant F/L/I). I think it's a great battalion on a non-flying dodge tank. Since this was NG and females only, I'm not sure you would have chosen a different battalion from what was available on this run.

I'm not sure why you would suggest it's a "mistake" to give someone a battalion with high AVO. That seems like a pretty uncontroversial tactic. Yes you lose it temporarily if you get rattled, that's the premise of this discussion and why I gave information about Petra's charm stat vs. the enemies.

Another thing you said earlier was that "all gambits are blessing" and that certainly isn't the case on SS Ch. 21; maybe it is true on other maps.

We can debate about whether it is a "bad build" or whether War Monk is a "bad class" (yes Brawler/War Master is better but they're gender locked) but I wasn't trying to make the most optimal thing possible or suggesting that I had built the ultimate map-sweeper, I was having fun, and it worked very well. Petra never took damage other than from the gremories' gambits (there are at least 2 of them btw). She had plenty of crit and ORKO punch with Killer Knuckles+ and could safely attack anything on PP without fear of counter. She was a monster.

As I said earlier, you can draw whatever conclusions you want from my experience that I shared, and it sounds like you are claiming victory, which is fine. Others might say that I burned a lot of resources just to make her on-par with enemy charm, and she still got rattled twice (not by the Pegs, mind you). I think my own conclusion is that Petra is an amazing unit, one of my favorites in the game, and can do anything you want her to, including dodging. But her charm does need to be addressed in some way, either by cooking and boosters like I did, or rally charm and tea parties (yay!) as others have suggested, or maybe a different battalion (though we disagree on that one). That said, her base and growths in charm are lacking, IMO. Had I not done anything to specifically address her charm, she would have had a value of 30-35 going into that battle, and that could have been ugly.

[RaIsMyPet]

3 minutes ago, Bylift said:

I'm not sure why you would suggest it's a "mistake" to give someone a battalion with high AVO. That seems like a pretty uncontroversial tactic. Yes you lose it temporarily if you get rattled, that's the premise of this discussion and why I gave information about Petra's charm stat vs. the enemies.

I'm saying it's subpar compared to more optimized setup (I'm writing up a detailed separate post, so please bear with me at the moment), which is strictly better in every way.

4 minutes ago, Bylift said:

Another thing you said earlier was that "all gambits are blessing" and that certainly isn't the case on SS Ch. 21; maybe it is true on other maps.

I said in my post it's about AM final map specifically, and I used "almost all", since there are 2 war masters with offensive gambit, and another mage in the throne room I think iirc

5 minutes ago, Bylift said:

We can debate about whether it is a "bad build" or whether War Monk is a "bad class" (yes Brawler/War Master is better but they're gender locked) but I wasn't trying to make the most optimal thing possible or suggesting that I had built the ultimate map-sweeper, I was having fun, and it worked very well. Petra never took damage other than from the gremories' gambits (there are at least 2 of them btw). She had plenty of crit and ORKO punch with Killer Knuckles+ and could safely attack anything on PP without fear of counter. She was a monster.

Yeah, you will see a better build when I post it. I'm not saying any of the common builds are bad. Some are quite good, but still not "universally great". And for your build, I imagine you have a hard time killing armors. What I'm trying to say is there is a super optimized build, with basically no grinding.

8 minutes ago, Bylift said:

As I said earlier, you can draw whatever conclusions you want from my experience that I shared, and it sounds like you are claiming victory, which is fine.

People can choose whatever aspect to look at. Maybe I shouldn't phrase it in that way to sound arrogant. I apologize. Please bear with me since my post will take some time to write up.