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Lorenz makes sense since Dark Knight is more strongly associated with him than anyone else. And it isn't one character for the BE. It's two. If we're counting Swordmaster as a higher class, we have to do so for Assassin as well. It's just "as needed," or to show off that tiers exist. I would expect Lorenz and Leonie given their strong associations with master tier classes.

 

Anyway, Petra's mechanic seems boring. The wind dash I mean. She just gets a SW hyper attack. The moveset as a whole looks great.

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28 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Lorenz makes sense since Dark Knight is more strongly associated with him than anyone else. And it isn't one character for the BE. It's two. If we're counting Swordmaster as a higher class, we have to do so for Assassin as well. It's just "as needed," or to show off that tiers exist. I would expect Lorenz and Leonie given their strong associations with master tier classes.

 

Anyway, Petra's mechanic seems boring. The wind dash I mean. She just gets a SW hyper attack. The moveset as a whole looks great.

That was a thief not assassin, her outfit doesn’t change any unlike Ferdinand so as it sits that was her as a thief.

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Petra as thief was still within calculations, and having a projectile attack (presumably a bow or dagger aspect?) gives it variety over SM. This just means thief -> assassin as would be expected.

Wind dash attack is decent I guess but it's not going to revolutionise play (I never found AOC Impa's similar awakened ability do anything meaningful lol).

Agreed that Lorenz will probably get the higher class profile - and in that case Dark Knight works out.

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39 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

That was a thief not assassin, her outfit doesn’t change any unlike Ferdinand so as it sits that was her as a thief.

And this is why I shouldn't respond to things when I'm half asleep.

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So with the class names revealed so far, I'm thinking promotions won't really be a thing in this game, and the class tree will be flattened to a single tier instead of having basic, intermediate, advanced, and master tiers. Hear me out.

Each moveset is named after a class, and so far it's generally been whatever the lowest-tier class that represents that moveset is; Petra's labeled a Thief rather than an Assassin, Sylvain is labeled a Cavalier rather than a Paladin, etc.

Felix and Ferdinand are given the promoted classes of Swordmaster and Holy Knight not because they're higher-ranked than the others, but because there isn't really any weaker version of those classes; Swordmaster's swift Eastern style is distinct enough from regular Mercenary to be treated as its own thing instead of just a promotion (Hero is a more direct promotion despite being gender-locked), and Holy Knight has no weaker analogue whatsoever, being the only cavalry+lance+white magic class in the game.

"But we've seen Ferdinand has both Cavalry and Holy Knight! That means he promotes from the former to the latter!" you may say, but I say "Not necessarily a promotion." I think the two classes will be treated as a lateral movement rather than a vertical movement, with Cavalry being straightforward lance cav action while Holy Knight is a sibling class that trades some of the power and swiftness for fancy light shows.

Now, promotions might still be a mechanic in the game, but I suspect it'll be more akin to how it was in FE Warriors; cool new design and unlocked skill tree nodes, but no direct change to how the character plays. This might also mean they have to invent new class names for the promoted forms of Swordmaster, Holy Knight, and possibly some other master classes such as Dark Knight, Great Knight, and Bow Knight.

Of course I could be wrong about all this, but this is my theory and I'm sticking with it.

Edited by Anomalocaris

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I didn't take the time to appreciate this but god the models are so GOOD. The portraits really don't do them justice.

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3 hours ago, Anomalocaris said:

So with the class names revealed so far, I'm thinking promotions won't really be a thing in this game, and the class tree will be flattened to a single tier instead of having basic, intermediate, advanced, and master tiers. Hear me out.

A promotion system is in the game, as we do see advanced seals, and one of the JP tweets have straightup mentioned mastering classes makes the higher tier ones available. With both of these details considered I can see some classes having multiple pre-requisites, such as Holy Knight, while the non-hybrid classes such as Swordmaster, Assassin, simpler Cav classes, and so on just have a singular pre-requisite

Edited by Vexal

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1 hour ago, Vexal said:

A promotion system is in the game, as we do see advanced seals, and one of the JP tweets have straightup mentioned mastering classes makes the higher tier ones available. With both of these details considered I can see some classes having multiple pre-requisites, such as Holy Knight, while the non-hybrid classes such as Swordmaster, Assassin, simpler Cav classes, and so on just have a singular pre-requisite

Ah, I haven't been following the JP tweets. I saw the Advanced Seals, but figured that could either be a way to unlock new movesets or just gain FEW1-esque promotion bonuses. I may still sorta be right, in that promoted classes are treated as unlockable alternatives rather than one-way upgrades, but we'll see.

I just hope if there is a tiering system, it doesn't work in a way where some entire movesets get left behind as inferior to promoted versions. Trying out all the various movesets is the fun part of Warriors games to me, and having some become intentionally obsolete would suck.

Edited by Anomalocaris

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8 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

Ah, I haven't been following the JP tweets. I saw the Advanced Seals, but figured that could either be a way to unlock new movesets or just gain FEW1-esque promotion bonuses. I may still sorta be right, in that promoted classes are treated as unlockable alternatives rather than one-way upgrades, but we'll see.

I just hope if there is a tiering system, it doesn't work in a way where some entire movesets get left behind as inferior to promoted versions. Trying out all the various movesets is the fun part of Warriors games to me, and having some become intentionally obsolete would suck.

I don't think there actually are movesets that would become intentionally obsolete. The only one that springs to mind is Soldier, and it seems to at the very least be a dismount moveset.

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16 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

I just hope if there is a tiering system, it doesn't work in a way where some entire movesets get left behind as inferior to promoted versions. Trying out all the various movesets is the fun part of Warriors games to me, and having some become intentionally obsolete would suck.

This will likely depend on how movesets are being handled honestly, as we still don't know if classes are locked to one weapon type or not. I imagine Thief and Assassin will be the same sword moveset due to them being associated for example, and personally I think we'll be operating on a two tier system due to classes having prerequisites. Perhaps the 'generic' sword moveset could still be gained through dismounted units or Mortal Savant? Or Swordmaster and the other intermediate sword class is said 'generic' sword moveset? There's still a lot to be seen when it comes to things outside of battle tbh

Edited by Vexal

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This makes me feel like all Priests have a Nosferatu-life lifesteal effect through the afterglow effect of their projectiles (we don't see the projectiles in the standard string in Mercedes' clip). The wind orbs remind me of satellites / options though not with nearly as much aggression.

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Linhardt is one of my franchise favorites, so I do really look forward to playing him. He's actually one of only a few priests I like in this series, and it is nice to have a healer in a Warriors game that I want to play.

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Lorenz up first as expected:

To be honest, I wasn't expecting characters to get unique gauges (separate to the bottom gauge which as icons, as I think that's a flexible but otherwise universal gauge for combat arts / durability).

I'm not sure if the Rose Gauge (fight me over this) needs an input to use its enemy attack nullification effect, or if it's similar to an Adjutant Guard in that it depletes where an attack would hit. If the latter, Lorenz honestly has very safe approaches.

I can't recognise if the second screen with the dark Aura like attack is meant to be one of the known dark magic spells, but none have this fixed cylindrical pillar of dark light (Hades Ω is the closest, but that's both a deeper purple and more funnel like in appearance.

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I guess the resource bar is made to appeal to fans of the OG Dark Knight moveset, or perhaps they just think an elitist character warrants the complexity to appeal to an elitist player.

 

Either way, it's a cool mechanic and I really like their implementation of one of my niche favorites.

 

The Golden Deer may be my least favorite house but goddamn, most of them look good and look to play good. Every house does, which makes that first route choice difficult. But hey, that means this game will have a level of replay value rarely seen in these games.

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I find it perplexing that they decided to use a somewhat sluggish character, whose personal involves charging attacks (thus making them slower), to showcase a class all about swiftness in combat... Brawler seems incredibly oppressive as a concept especially if you can cancel a charge attack / combat art sequence back into your normal string.

I don't think the charge up on attacks is particularly worth it when (a) there's no explicit mention of gaining armour during charge, (b) increased stagger on a charged hit doesn't appear to have a hugely practical effect when you could just punch through enemies normally with the normal hitstun, (c) S ranking missions is probably going to be calculated with time as a key factor again.

I think the third image in the tweet is a charge attack, despite the camera angle - a ground punch doesn't quite feel like combat art material to me (not that it really matters here); though Raphael's red aura at that moment is of further interest.

By the way, does anyone else feel that the charging mechanics (specifically Caspar / Raphael) are a bit odd having what appears to be light element?

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For future reference, a combination of DeepL and Google Translate will generally get the rough gist of things. But given that Satsuma and Serenes twitter both post translations, why not use them?

...anyway, Gremory confirmed:

I'm not certain what's the indicator for an enemy inflicted by Heartseeker (my best guess purely on trailer footage is dark smoke, as despite not every enemy having it during the knockback from Aura, all enemies have dark explosions on ground impact).

I'm thinking this probably means that Monk (which has been seen as NPC non playable ally in Mysterious Mercenary) is an NPC moveset gimped version of one of the magic classes as opposed to being a predecessor for Gremory. How this translates for Fighter (already seen as enemy and axe using) / Myrmidon I'm not sure (presumably Soldier is for dismounted cavalry classes not including Great Knight).

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2 hours ago, tipperthescales said:

I'm thinking this probably means that Monk (which has been seen as NPC non playable ally in Mysterious Mercenary) is an NPC moveset gimped version of one of the magic classes as opposed to being a predecessor for Gremory. How this translates for Fighter (already seen as enemy and axe using) / Myrmidon I'm not sure (presumably Soldier is for dismounted cavalry classes not including Great Knight).

Well random thought, perhaps Monk is both a both a gimped version of Gremory and also a predecessor to it? I've been pondering for a while about how they might handle classes and move sets in this game for a while. Just looking at Intermediate classes and you would have 11 classes plus the 3 unique Lord move sets and 2 unique player move sets. 16 unique move sets (before character unique combos) is already on the high side, and then you add in the 12 advanced classes and 9 master classes? That is well beyond what you see in most Musous.

Thinking about I remembered that it is fairly common in modern Musous for combos to have to be unlocked. So if what the way that Three Hopes handles unlocking higher combos is via higher tier classes. So hypothetically Monk and Gremory share a move set, but Monk is only able to use four button combos and you unlock the five and six combos when you class up to Gremory (or maybe unlock the 5 combo when you master the class and the 6 combo is Gremory only?). Not sure how this hypothetical system would handle some of the classes that lack lower tier counterparts like Holy Knight or Bow Knight.

I might just be overthinking things though.

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On 5/25/2022 at 6:26 AM, Fabulously Olivier said:

Anyway, Petra's mechanic seems boring. The wind dash I mean. She just gets a SW hyper attack. The moveset as a whole looks great.

I feel it's closer to the "spend rage for a dash cancel" move that's also in SW (and I believe certain character types in WO4 could do this too, might be misremembering in WO4's case though), which also had a hitbox than it is to Hyper Attacks, due to the much shorter distance and range and I believe it reset Petra's combo too

EDIT: Now that I caught up on everyone else after my post towards Oliver, here are my personal thoughts for the characters I've missed out on

Linhardt: The shmup option system he has looks neat, hopefully it's actually worth using though

Lorenz:  Starting to make me think the C1s are indeed character based, at least for preferred classes, and much like FEW the extra gauge would be tied to said C1

Raphael: I had this thought since the trailer, but it looks like they based him off Carver in DQH2

Lysithea: Funny machine tl constantly referring to classes as either troop or soldier aside, the Gremory moveset looks neat. Interesting to see her using ice too, as I believe this is our first example of a character using an element they never had access to in 3H. Heartseeker's kind of disappointing as it seems to just be Hubert's dark spikes just with a slightly different aesthetic

Edited by Vexal

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Certified freshest archer in all Fodlan inkoming:

I kind of hope we can choose the paint colour / element somehow (whether it's a HW Sheik styled 'this charge attack does this elemental attack' or something else, not sure).

The choice of text certainly makes me wonder if the paint knockback effect also would apply if Ignatz is using a melee weapon (otherwise why emphasise applying fields of paint at a distance?).

By the way, what inspired Ignatz to change his wardrobe to have Byleth cut out sleeves?

 

~~~

 

18 hours ago, Ranadiel said:

Well random thought, perhaps Monk is both a both a gimped version of Gremory and also a predecessor to it? I've been pondering for a while about how they might handle classes and move sets in this game for a while. Just looking at Intermediate classes and you would have 11 classes plus the 3 unique Lord move sets and 2 unique player move sets. 16 unique move sets (before character unique combos) is already on the high side, and then you add in the 12 advanced classes and 9 master classes? That is well beyond what you see in most Musous.

Thinking about I remembered that it is fairly common in modern Musous for combos to have to be unlocked. So if what the way that Three Hopes handles unlocking higher combos is via higher tier classes. So hypothetically Monk and Gremory share a move set, but Monk is only able to use four button combos and you unlock the five and six combos when you class up to Gremory (or maybe unlock the 5 combo when you master the class and the 6 combo is Gremory only?). Not sure how this hypothetical system would handle some of the classes that lack lower tier counterparts like Holy Knight or Bow Knight.

I might just be overthinking things though.

This was my initial thought, but I am questioning whether the beginner classes will be featured at all for playable movesets (Soldier notwithstanding). We shall see in any case.

Don't forget that certain Intermediate / Advanced class pairs probably share the overall moveset (hello Archer/Sniper etc.)

Quoting myself from elsewhere and with some edits, we should be at 18 confirmed movesets with high likelihood for 6 more in the Advanced+ pool:

On 5/28/2022 at 3:47 AM, tipperthescales said:

Confirmed:
Armoured Lord
High Lord
Wyvern Master
Fluegel
Dark Mage (probably -> Dark Bishop)
Mage (probably -> Warlock)
Holy Knight
Archer (probably -> Sniper)
Brigand (probably -> Warrior)
Thief (probably -> Assassin)
Priest (probably -> Bishop)
Armour Knight (probably -> Fortress Knight)
Swordmaster (possibly <- Myrmidon?)
Cavalier (probably -> Paladin)
Pegasus Knight (probably -> Falcon Knight)
Dark Knight
Brawler (probably -> Grappler)
Gremory (maybe <- Monk? Monk has been seen as NPC class)

Probable:
Wyvern Knight -> Wyvern Lord (FEW precedence + unique weapon/movement type)
Great Knight (FEW precedence + unique weapon/movement type)
Mortal Savant (given that Holy / Dark Knight don't appear to share moveset DNA with Cavalier/?Paladin, I expect Savant to have a similar distinction with Swordmaster)
War Master (same deal as Mortal Savant, and given that Thief/?Assassin adds 'projectile attacks' to a sword primary moveset to reflect the bow proficiency; would expect an axe predominant moveset with some hand-to-hand sprinkled in)
Bow Knight (unique weapon/movement type)
Mercenary/Hero?
Soldier (as dismounted cavalry, otherwise seen in gameplay as an enemy class)

Abyss / Byleth / Jeritza / Dancer (i.e. Possible):
Trickster (would probably be a magical variant of Thief/Assassin)
War Monk / Cleric (um, another axe / brawling hybrid with some faith on top?)
Dark Flier (unsure if this will take sword primary with a lot of magic or not; dismounts to either Mage or some magic sword moveset that isn't a Savant clone)
Valkyrie (pure magical mounted class, has FEW precedent, probably dismounts to Monk/weakened Gremory)
Enlightened One (kinda depends on Byleth themselves; probably a faith enhanced Hero moveset?)
Death Knight (probably a Dark Knight variation, also depends on Jeritza availability)
Dancer (has FEW precedent but I'd expect some subtle differences; reverse grip sword already covered by Theif/Assassin)

Uncertain:
Fighter (enemy only?)
Myrmidon (enemy only? Predecessor to Swordmaster?)
Noble/Commoner (too freeform, don't think they exist)
Enemy locked classes
Rhea classes

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He's a kid now! He's a squid now!

The paint mechanic does seem the more fun gimmicks to play around with. Its still a bit weird Ignatz dresses like an Imperial soldier. I wonder if it implies he'll join Gloucester when it sides with the empire.

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