Would a No-Growth run even be possible?

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

This is something I´ve been wondering about for some time:

If in a run units wouldn´t not only gain no stats via level up, but also no temporary/permanent stat boosters, no weapon exp, no promotion bonuses etc. Essentially all units are static in every aspect, then are there still games that would be beatable?

I´m thinking FE Blazing endgame may be beatable, since you get Athos, but would one even be able to get that far?

[Bylift]

I've wondered this too. At first a "no growth" run sounds impossible, but when you factor in class minimum stats, stat boosters, abilities like death blow etc. I can see how it can be done.

What you're describing sounds like it would be absolutely impossible in 3H.

Maybe possible in Sacred Stones? Some units come pre-promoted with pretty good stats and weapon ranks, so you might be able to field a party that isn't completely useless. Would be a real challenge though.

 

[Alastor15243]

Given all the 0% growth runs I've seen, I doubt these additional restrictions would be that major of an obstacle.

[Bylift]

10 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Given all the 0% growth runs I've seen, I doubt these additional restrictions would be that major of an obstacle.

It's amazing what people can do.

I suppose I should be more specific about 3H. I don't think it would be possible as described by Imuabicus on maddening.

Imagine the party you use in the mock battle thrown into the final map on any route. Barbecued chicken.

[LoneRecon400]

Depends on the the game. A lot of 0% Growths runs in the later part of the series rely heavily on stat boosters to make up the stat difference, especially temporary ones like rallies and tonics. But a lot of the earlier ones have some pretty deflated stats like FE3, so it's pretty doable.

If you want an idea of what a run would look like, here's an example of a 0% Growths byleth soloing VW without statboosters. They used Wyvern class bases on Byleth, but Seteth could just be used instead with how high his bases are.

[AnonymousSpeed]

1 hour ago, Bylift said:

Maybe possible in Sacred Stones? Some units come pre-promoted with pretty good stats and weapon ranks, so you might be able to field a party that isn't completely useless. Would be a real challenge though.

Maybe, but I don't know. Without weapon rank increases, you're asking someone to fight their way through enemies the traditional way (no warp skipping) and kill Morva and the Demon King without any sacred weapons.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I think Blazing should be beatable even on HHM, because you get such a steady clip of competent prepromos. Level 1 Marcus and underlevelled helpers manage until other prepromos show up, who manage until Athos. I don't believe 0% growth runs of that game are that reliant on stat boosters.

Sacred Stones is slightly more alarming just because you don't have any wonderful ways of damaging the last few bosses... no S rank weapons, nobody with particularly great stats like Athos.

For FE9 I'd be pretty worried about HM Ashnard (NM gets chomped by your local laguz royal). As I recall Ena gets one-rounded there, without Resolve (which I assume is banned by "all characters are static in every respect").

RD... might be manageable? Like Blazing you get a pretty steady drop of competent later-joiners.

I can't imagine Awakening/Fates are possible on their hardest difficulties, but I know the low difficulties of those games are supposed to be much easier.

3H...

2 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

If you want an idea of what a run would look like, here's an example of a 0% Growths byleth soloing VW without statboosters. They used Wyvern class bases on Byleth, but Seteth could just be used instead with how high his bases are.

I'm not going to try to dig through the video to get this information, so feel free to enlighten me, but... Is this reliant on cooking, skills (besides Lance Prowess 4 / Axe Prowess 3), combat arts, etc.? I'd be pretty impressed if 3H Maddening can actually be defeated under the rules set out in the original post. 3H is definitely one of those games where a surprising number of things are possible, but I feel like this is too much to take off the table. Interested in your thoughts.

[LoneRecon400]

48 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Is this reliant on cooking, skills (besides Lance Prowess 4 / Axe Prowess 3), combat arts, etc.? I'd be pretty impressed if 3H Maddening can actually be defeated under the rules set out in the original post. 3H is definitely one of those games where a surprising number of things are possible, but I feel like this is too much to take off the table. Interested in your thoughts.

It's taking into consideration cooking and class masteries. The cooking can be cut, but losing out on Class Masteries would make three houses just flat out impossible. You'd just have no way to beat the end game bosses without them.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

18 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Given all the 0% growth runs I've seen, I doubt these additional restrictions would be that major of an obstacle.

Yeah, but there´s quite a bit of promoting going on, which seems the primary way to gain useful units - plenty of clears per map seem to be dependend on getting specific units into specific positions. Also the limitations of picking units up. At worst this extends the duration of the map, but that changes enemy formations etc etc.

17 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Depends on the the game. A lot of 0% Growths runs in the later part of the series rely heavily on stat boosters to make up the stat difference, especially temporary ones like rallies and tonics. But a lot of the earlier ones have some pretty deflated stats like FE3, so it's pretty doable.

If you want an idea of what a run would look like, here's an example of a 0% Growths byleth soloing VW without statboosters. They used Wyvern class bases on Byleth, but Seteth could just be used instead with how high his bases are.

I didn´t realize this at the beginning, but TH would probably be immediately done - no weapon rank gains no reclasses, you´be playing the game with 4 move iron weaponry and a relic if you can get that far.

15 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

(which I assume is banned by "all characters are static in every respect").

Hm, I´m not sure about skills - methinks direct stats and damage increasing skills like like DEF+2 and any -faire skill would be banned, but that doesn´t quite feel right for e.g. Darting Blow and their ilk which are in effect 1 every PP if even that, especially when also considering weapons like the Raijinto, which is basically a permanent stat boost. Heck, all Hoshidan weapons, barring clubs directly alter stats. Skills like Wary Fighter, Inspiration, Replicate could be fine though, I guess?

[LoneRecon400]

3 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

I didn´t realize this at the beginning, but TH would probably be immediately done - no weapon rank gains no reclasses, you´be playing the game with 4 move iron weaponry and a relic if you can get that far.

Recruiting is always on the table. A combination of Shamir, Catherine, and Seteth would be enough to get through most of game. They'd just get walled at the endgame without class masteries though.