Rate Their Classes - Day 9 - Bow Knight

[Fabulously Olivier]

So, this topic is going to work differently. We're going to talk about the various potential playable classes of Three Hopes - those that appear in 3 Houses, past entries in the franchise, and potential new classes. And we're going to cover various topics.

 

We'll only be discussing higher tier classes, as they encapsulate the discussion of their lower tier equivalents, and much more.

 

* Odds that they'll be a playable class in Three Hopes.

* How much you want to play that class.

* Which characters you want to play that class as.

* What their moveset could be like.

* What skills they could have, and how those skills might function.

* What weapon type they would use for their moveset.

 

Today we're talking about the Hero class

Spoiler

My Thoughts on Hero:

 

Likelihood: 9/10. While this class is underused in 3H, this class is one of FE's most iconic and enduring classes. I see little chance of it not making it. Moreover, Holst is shown as a Hero.

 

Want: 10/10. Hero is also one of my personal favorite classes. It's the perfect infantry all rounder.

 

Characters I'll likely use as Hero: 

Caspar, Ashe, and Ferdinand have perfect personalities for this class. And maybe Leonie as a female one.

 

Weapon type:

Swords are more likely since Holst is pictured with one and the class offers Swordfaire. Maybe that's the real reason he passed his birthright to Hilda.

 

Skills:

Swordfaire seems like a straightforward sword damage buff.

Vantage I could see buffing your damage output while at or below half health.

Defiant Strength would double down on that playstyle with a big Str buff while at or below half health.

 

I picture the Hero's sword moveset being a slower, more dramatic style than the Swordmaster. Big, powerful, dare I say Heroic swings. Not a lot of multihit attacks. And largely ground-based. More reminiscient of a greatsword in most games.

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Fabulously Olivier

[ciphertul]

Ah, Hero a classic class that has always been solid... until 3H where it was kicked to the curb and out done by every other advanced sword.

Likelihood: Gonna mimic Olivier here and give 9.

Want: 7/10 here, I bet it will be fun but... I do see it as the slow sword user and that don't mesh to well with Hack 'n Slash.

Users: Holst if playable and maybe Casper.

Weapon: Sword, and maybe have an Axe alt.

I will omit Skills for now.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I can't say I find Hero quite as iconic as some other FE classes. It's missing from FE4, Tellius (for all that Ike10 takes after it a bit; that's a lord though), and SoV, off the top of my head. It seems pretty likely to show up in this game to me though, particularly because Holst seems tailor-made for it judging by the trailer. Which is important because as far as I can recall it's nobody's canon class in FE3H (you fight generic Heroes, but no named ones IIRC?), so if not for Holst it'd be a prime candidate for dropping if anything is.

[tipperthescales]

Ooh, this should prove to be an interesting topic of discussion going forward.

The sword classes overall are in an interesting spot, and I do wonder how the class progression tree for them would work out given you could arguably have all of Hero, Swordmaster / Mortal Savant, and Assassin (plus I guess Trickster including Abyss classes, and Lord for a few special cases) as end point movesets.

But back to Hero:

Likelihood - 8/10 for being the quintessential all around physical sword unit throughout the series (though as pointed about above there are caveats). Please don't gender lock it...

Desire - 7.5/10, though I'd probably add another half-point if they make an homage to older FE titles and add a shield for use in the moveset (though not to the extent of the armoured classes).

Characters - Holst if he's playable. Honestly I'd feel like Caspar and Alois fit the best here, but could also see Leonie or possibly Petra (though she fits a more nimble sword class) as well, given that Hero isn't otherwise associated with any playable character in terms of canon class.

Moveset - definitely can see this take sword over axe. In terms of reference points from FEW, I think somewhere between the Aytolis and Ylisse sword movesets works (the dual wield moveset fits Assassin more and the rapier moveset is practically for Lords), though maybe. If the class has a non-cosmetic shield, having it used for an aerial C finisher would be an interesting touch. One could argue recycling animations with an axe but I wouldn't personally expect it.

Skills - assuming base 3H skills carry over, Swordfaire would be a specific buff in damage output using swords, Vantage I honestly am not too sure about how it would translate unless it gave some sort of intangibility if you attacked an enemy as they were attacking you in close enough proximity that you could get damaged, and Defiant Strength is a pretty standard critical health Str buff (though how useful that would be given the S rank requirement are returning, probably not too high). Possibly a higher tier Axebreaker as well if it's a sword only class.

Combat Arts could be an interesting approach, noting that most are character locked depending on weapon rank in 3H - however IIRC in FEW weapon rank is more something intrinsic to the weapon itself. Not too sure if they'll go the 3H or the FEW route here, but if the latter:

- Wrath Strike and Grounder are available to anyone who gains sword proficiency, and we know Shez had the former equipped. Grounder has felt to me more like a dexterous combat art which might suit Swordmaster line.

- Although such a combat art doesn't exist for swords, given this line is the heavy sword moveset, some sort of anti armour combat art would be interesting; they could also just repurpose Helm Splitter (which is an axe combat art).

[Fabulously Olivier]

There will be no comparative ratings here since this thread is more personal than competitive.

 

Anyway, I think a physical -> magical -> mounted rotation should be appropriate for now. 

 

Day Two - Gremory

 

This one should be a pretty straightforward case. Unless they want to equalize the genders by scrapping this class instead of making a male equivalent/rename, it seems like a guarantee to me. As such 9/10 likelihood.

 

I have no particular attachment to the class, but it's an obvious endpoint for mages. So a neutral 5/10 want is appropriate. It's boring but effective.

 

If it remains female-only, Lysithea and maybe Annette may remain my only Gremories. If there's a male equivalent, Hubert may be it.

 

As for skills, I see it increasing the max number of uses of black magic and white magic spells just as it does. Whether that's reduced cooldowns, reduced durability cost, or both. And maybe they could get creative with it, adding in a spell that mixes light and dark magic, with multi-effectiveness.

 

Speaking of which, if its moveset doesn't include both Reason and Faith animations (like Linde from FEW), I'd be fairly disappointed.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

16 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I can't say I find Hero quite as iconic as some other FE classes. It's missing from FE4, Tellius (for all that Ike10 takes after it a bit; that's a lord though), and SoV, off the top of my head. It seems pretty likely to show up in this game to me though, particularly because Holst seems tailor-made for it judging by the trailer. Which is important because as far as I can recall it's nobody's canon class in FE3H (you fight generic Heroes, but no named ones IIRC?), so if not for Holst it'd be a prime candidate for dropping if anything is.

I would say the "Forrest" class, which various Myrmidons promote into, is close enough to Hero. It doesn't use Axes, granted, but neither did Archanean Heroes.

Anyway, regarding the Hero class, I'll give it a 5 out of 10 likelihood, since it's one of the least relevant classes in 3H. And let's say a 5 out of 10 want, since I like it stylistically, but it's rarely a unit's best option. Potential skills: Swordfaire, Vantage, Sol, Defiant Strength. Potential users: Claude, Caspar, Holst. With a gender-unlock, Edelgard and Catherine.

As for Gremory, this one is almost certainly in the game. 9 out of 10. I believe it's canon for enemy Lysithea and Cornelia, at least. As for want, 8 out of 10 - it's the master of all magics class, what's not to love? Potential skills: Spell uses x2, Spell range +1, Defiant Magic. Potential users: Lysithea, Dorothea, Mercedes, Flayn. If they gender-unlock it, Linhardt, Yuri, and Hanneman. Let me put my boys into witchy gowns, dammit!

[ciphertul]

Gremory, I'm sure it will be in game due to it's mastery of magic

Likelihood: Gonna give it a 10, it's gonna be in the game either as a female only class or reworked into an unlocked one.

Want: 5/10, if it ends up like Linde's move set then it will be higher but if more like Robin's when a bit lower.

Users: Lysithea and if available Cornelia.

Weapon: Tome, as shown during the trailer. 

[Dark Holy Elf]

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I would say the "Forrest" class, which various Myrmidons promote into, is close enough to Hero. It doesn't use Axes, granted, but neither did Archanean Heroes.

Interesting, I never played FE1 or FE3 so to me "Hero" is almost synonomous with both swords and axes to me. The remakes retconned the class to have axes for what it's worth.

That said, I can't say I see it with Forrest, it's basically just a Swordmaster variant, trading a bit of skl/spd for magic. I'm biased because the only one I've used extensively is Ulster/Scathach*, and he just screams Swordmaster between his heritage and Astra... but even trying to look at it objectively, it feels like a Swordmaster variant to me. Hero should have at least one of axe access or better Str/Def than swordmaster, and Forrest does not. The only thing similar is its slightly lower speed.

*Fun fact: I didn't notice Scathach WASN'T a swordmaster until near the end of the game, because apparently I'm bad at reading class names.

Anyway I'd consider Gremory quite likely for this game since it's seen as a very iconic class for 3H specifically, I think. Definitely want to see it because it looks so darn cool. Feather boas for everyone including men please this time, Hubert needs to look as overdramatic as possible.

[Morgan--Grandmaster]

With Mercedes in the game, I think this one is a shoo-in. Easy 10/10

[tipperthescales]

Gremory

Likelihood - solid 9, arguably the definitive magical master class of 3H. Having a male equivalent with equal costume extravagance would be appreciated, but unfortunately I expect the guys to get shafted here.

Desire - 7. Most of this hinges on the moveset execution.

Characters - flexible for quite a few characters - I personally feel Lysithea / Mercedes / Dorothea pull the look off the best (add Constance if she's in). Male choice probably boil down to Hubert, and then a very crack choice of Sylvain.

Moveset - seeing Hubert holding a tome makes it almost certain that a physical tome will be present. It's hard to know what the mage movesets are going to look like, though I'd expect something covering at least higher tiers of the offensive white and black magic; but noting Lysithea is a dark magic exclusive practitioner when it comes to her Reason, perhaps the innate magic inclinations of each character might influence their combo strings? Given what we've seen of Hubert's Dark Mage moveset, maybe shift to a crowd clearing focus (Hubert's attacks feel more tailored to ensnaring and locking down enemies at first glance).

Skills - the increased Magic Uses x2 feel like both a cooldown and durability reduction. Defiant Mag is obvious enough (as previously discussed re Defiant Str). Would this class inherit Mage's Fiendish Blow (or perhaps a more potent version of the same)? (actually should we discuss the skills of lower tier classes on the class tree in this situation?)

Importantly I think having a higher tier Heal (whether Recover or Physic, though I'm not sure what the practical differences would be in a Musou setting would be - perhaps the latter doesn't require the healer to be in the immediate vicinity of the target?) would ensure that the non offensive Faith aspect is covered.

Combat Arts - this is obviously going to be dependent on each character's innate skill list, but I wonder if other than boring old Fire if any others could be standardized for all Gremories.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

8 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Interesting, I never played FE1 or FE3 so to me "Hero" is almost synonomous with both swords and axes to me. The remakes retconned the class to have axes for what it's worth.

That said, I can't say I see it with Forrest, it's basically just a Swordmaster variant, trading a bit of skl/spd for magic. I'm biased because the only one I've used extensively is Ulster/Scathach*, and he just screams Swordmaster between his heritage and Astra... but even trying to look at it objectively, it feels like a Swordmaster variant to me. Hero should have at least one of axe access or better Str/Def than swordmaster, and Forrest does not. The only thing similar is its slightly lower speed.

Looking at the Wiki, the Forrest class's aesthetic is much closer to "Hero" than "Swordmaster", with elements like shoulderpads and a shield. None of that long robe business, that would become a series standard. Interestingly enough, a bit of concept art there actually labels the class as "Hero" (I can't independently verify this, though). The stat distribution comparison is strange (why more Magic? why no more Defense?), but I'd attribute that to a sort of "early installment weirdness".

While Astra is associated with the Swordmaster class nowadays, it's worth noting that within FE4, all playable Heroes (Chulainn, Scathach, Dalvin, and Creidne) are of Isaachian origin, just like all playable Swordmasters (Ayra, Larcei, Shannan). And of course, the Sword Twins can have Luna or Sol, too, depending on their parentage.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Hm, I don't see any shield in the sprite:  

Shoulderpads... I guess? SNES/GBA sprites are so exaggerated in general, I didn't think much of them, but looking at them again they are reasonably bulky. The outfit doesn't seem particularly different from what Edward or Saber wear to me, though (for all that I realize that I mentally class the sword line in SoV as more swordmaster than hero too, and I guess you could also debate that... axes are important to me I guess!).

[Fabulously Olivier]

Day 3 - Paladin

 

The essential staple class of every team in most FE's. There is no chance they don't make the cut. Easy 10/10.

 

And 10/10 want as well. Lance paladin is one of the most sorely missing movesets in FEW.

 

I imagine this one being a highly mobile class based on lunge attacks flowing into wide sweeps and jumps.

 

Skills are pretty straightforward. Lancefaire is a damage buff. Aegis could work as it does in FEW, or possibly be redesigned for greater effectiveness (just halving damage taken rather than increasing based on your Def/Res would be a good start). I could also see it getting Canto as an out-of-combat movespeed buff. Swift Strikes feels like a good learnable combat art.

 

Ferdinand is my favorite paladin, though since I'd probably make him a Hero, Halberdier, Great Knight, or Fortress Knight, I'll probably play Sylvain. I'd also really like to play Jeralt as one. And of course Jeritza may functionally be one.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Fabulously Olivier

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

11 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Hm, I don't see any shield in the sprite:  

Shoulderpads... I guess? SNES/GBA sprites are so exaggerated in general, I didn't think much of them, but looking at them again they are reasonably bulky. The outfit doesn't seem particularly different from what Edward or Saber wear to me, though (for all that I realize that I mentally class the sword line in SoV as more swordmaster than hero too, and I guess you could also debate that... axes are important to me I guess!).

Well, if you look at the generic portrait (not the battle sprite), he's holding a shield. Anyway, it's no surprise that "Forrest" is more "Swordmaster-like" than later "Heroes". FE4 was the first game to have multiple fully-promoted generic sword infantry combat classes (Archanea just had Hero, while FE2 only had Dread Fighter). It would take a few games for the classes to distinguish themselves. Speaking of which, I'd say SoV's incarnation of Dread Fighter is closer to Swordmaster than Hero, but honestly its own thing (no later Sword infantry classes are known for being Magic-resilient).

As for Paladin, yeah there's no way this class doesn't show up. It's been in every game, even if some of them (Tellius) add weapon specifiers. Clear 10 out of 10 odds. As for want, I like it well enough, and would hate to see it missing, so let's say 9 out of 10. Potential skills: Canto, Lancefaire, Aegis, Terrain Resistance, Elbow Room. Likely users: Ferdinand, Sylvain, Leonie. Possible users: Hubert, Dimitri, Ingrid, Lorenz, Gilbert, Jeritza, and Jeralt.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Not much to add, Paladin is definitely one of the series' most iconic classes so obviously it's gonna be in. And yeah it's weird we didn't get a lance cavalry class in FEW1, when normally that's the most common weapon for cavalry in the series, isn't it?

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 minute ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Not much to add, Paladin is definitely one of the series' most iconic classes so obviously it's gonna be in. And yeah it's weird we didn't get a lance cavalry class in FEW1, when normally that's the most common weapon for cavalry in the series, isn't it?

Yep. Camus is, IMO, the single most jarring omission from FEW1.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Yeah, Camus is probably the biggest Archanaea name missing, and additionally Frederick became an axe-user when he's clearly lance primary in Awakening itself (iirc he starts with B lances and D axes). I get how it happened - the game wanted to showcase the weapon triangle and there aren't enough axe-users amongst the major plot players of Archanaea/Awakening/Fates - but it's certainly quite surprising in a vacuum.

[ciphertul]

Paladin, I really hope we get a lance Paladin as we got skipped on that one on FEW.

Likelihood: Gonna give it a 10, while it may not me a lance wielder I know we will see it in some way.

Want: 9/10, it should have a really fun move set.

Users: All the "canon" users of this class.

Weapon: I really hope it is lances. 

[tipperthescales]

For whatever reason I never really assumed Forrest was quite equivalent to Hero...

Paladin

Likelihood - 9/10. As everyone else has already mentioned, an actual shame that lance cavalier was not a class in OG FEW; I believe both trailers show Kingdom (or Church) Paladins so it'd be shocking if they weren't around.

Desire - 8/10. Covers the void that the ground mounted units have (I would envision the moveset having even further melee range coverage compared with Frederick / Great Knight).
Characters - Jeralt if playable, the Three Nobles (Ferdie / Sylvain / Lorenz), Ingrid (though that pulls her out of Peg/Falcon), Dimitri (though I suspect most will go Sylvain or Ingrid for AG mounted unit), I guess Leonie as well?

Moveset - we know that for Claude at least Wyvern Master can dismount, so I'm going to assume that this class would as well. Mounted I would expect nothing less than a lance moveset, which could have some more broad sweeping attacks reminiscent of DW titles; though thrusts and helm splitting motions are a must as well. Preferably less horse acrobatics (save that for the bow knights lol). Dismounted, I'm a bit torn - a sword moveset would provide a swifter response, but we're otherwise lacking in non-mounted lance movesets that aren't Dimitri or armoured; though I'd probably be inclined to go lance here. Mobility wise while mounted would probably be somewhere between Xander/Mage cav and Freddy level?

Skills - Lancefaire is straightforward. I don't know how Canto would really function, unless it was 'cancel your attacking forward momentum with a sudden retreat that doesn't require a turning circle's movement'. Terrain Resistance would be interesting if there's an Ailell stage or some other maps with poison swamp etc. (though this might just make it more advantageous to deploy fliers / mounts for said map). Aegis is straightforward enough - on that note, I'm not sure if monster damage would fall exclusively under what is covered by Aegis or Pavise (it... doesn't seem to be considered in OG FEW??). If we include Desperation from Cavalier, that could function as an attack speed boost at low HP (perhaps even more so than the usual speed boost such as with FEW Astra)?

Combat Arts - Tempest Lance feels like a shoo-in though it's obviously not a class locked situation. Hit and Run could be interesting if the horses do 2D sprite era acrobatics and leap significantly backwards after the art is performed... Lance Jab and Swift Strikes feel closer to moveset attacks. If we consider dismounted sword arts, see Hero.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Day 4 - Warrior/Warmaster

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Warmaster is the end stage of Warrior, not Grappler, due to its combat art Warmaster's Strike.

 

Warrior is a 10/10. Warmaster an 8/10, with the only thing going against it being that they may need to make higher tier versions of Grappler and other classes to match.

 

Very much a 10/10 want as well. Lissa was fine, but FEW really felt me wanting for a more traditional, brutal axe moveset. Barst was pretty sorely missing from the roster.

 

Weapon type - Axe

 

Skills -

Axefaire.

Wrath (recharges gauges faster below half health).

Axe crit +10 may be replaced with a damage buff to Axe Combat Arts.

Warmaster's Strike axe combat art with all effectiveness.

From prior class tiers, Shove may be reworked to push enemies and do lots of damage if they strike a wall.

Death Blow could be a damage buff to musou, combat arts, or both. Or maybe a temporary damage buff when you first enter combat.

 

Characters - Hilda is of course the obvious choice. But I may actually use Holst or Gilbert in this role. Maybe even Lorenz with his sacred axe. I'd even consider throwing Edelgard here to drop that awful shield.

[tipperthescales]

I feel a bit conflicted reviewing War Master within the vacuum of axes, as it strikes me as a common end point for Brigand/Warrior and Brawler/Grappler; in this light I'll focus on the axe side of things and save brawling related comments when the time comes (or if relevant here).

Warrior

Likelihood - 8/10. Axes actually have a lot of diversity in the 3H class set, covering all movement types. Even so Hilda's showing off at least a Brigand like moveset so it'd be odd not to have its promotions. In the context of War Master specifically, please gender unlock it (after all AM Ch.19 allied female War Master is a thing).

Desire - 8/10. 

Characters - accounting for just Warrior, Edelgard / Hilda / Holst / Alois / Cyril, maaaaybe Petra / Ashe / Annette. No changes to this roster adding War Master consideration to the mix.

Moveset - we've seen a few snippets from Hilda's brief second reel; honestly I'd prefer a bit less of the flashy stuff that was tied with how Lissa utilised axes, and lean more into clean brutal strikes. Perhaps it could have some sort of shockwave (sort of how Dedue had one, but less 'impactful' in a sense that it'd be more a war cry or a foot slam). Regarding War Master, I feel that unless the War Monk / Cleric are included in base, that War Master will take brawling preferentially (again because there's the axe diversity) and add a few axe specific attacks into the mix.

Skills - Axefaire is straightforward. Axe Critical I think will depend on whether the Stun Gauge returns; if so I'd imagine it to boost the rate of gauge depletion while using axes, and also increasing the effect of the resulting critical hit once the gauge is depleted; and if not, as Olivier mentioned regarding axe type combat arts. Wrath I think would boost the damage from critical hits and warrior specials while <50% HP (though warrior gauge gain while <50% HP is still decent as well).

Combat Arts - Smash and Helm Splitter have global availability. War Master's Strike is specifically an Axe combat art but obviously locked to War Master - global effectiveness should be okay presuming the cooldown / durability costs are steep enough. Other combat arts are probably going to depend on the character, since even on an infantry axe there's versatility going from Armoured Strike vs Spike vs Focused Strike, for example.

[Vexal]

In the spoiler tag will be my thoughts for the 3 days that I missed, as I didn't know this was going on until today as I haven't really checked the forum in forever. Skills will be what I think they do and not exactly what they will do, for obvious reason. Also assuming skills can be freely put on and off ala the first Warriors game since we haven't seen any details on the skill system. I'll also be operating on the assumption each class gives 3 skills considering we've seen 3 grayed out stars next to the class name for the classes in the trailer that wasn't Shez's. Weapon access will also be assuming that they follow the 3H class proficiencies

 

Spoiler

Hero

Likelihood: 7/10 Recurring iconic class so likely in

Want: 4/10 Not too big on axes, and I imagine there will be better sword classes to boot.

Planned Hero characters: None, would likely play the class just to get the skills

Weapon type: Swords and Axes, assuming classes get any weapons that are available through their 3H class proficiencies

Skills

Swordfaire: Basic damage increase on a rather straightforward class is a no brainer.

Vantage: Could provide bonus damage against captains so long as you keep your health above 50%, which is also easy to pull off

Defiant Strength: An alternative to Vantage, but provides a higher boost since you're playing a riskier strategy

Playstyle: Assuming movesets are class based and not necessarily weapon based will be all around basic, with average speed, range, and damage output whether you go for sword or axes compared to the other classes that use those weapons, though the sword set will be weaker than the axe set, while the axe set is slower


Gremory

Likelihood: 10/10 if no gender locked classes, as it'd be a rather weird omission if there weren't gender locks, otherwise a 4/10 likelihood

Want: 10/10, loved the mage playstyle in FEW and what I saw of Hubert in the recent trailer, so a potential Gremory has me super excited

Planned Gremory characters: Hubert (if no gender locks), Lysithea, and Annette

Weapon type: Tomes

Skills

Magic Uses+: Rebranded and condensed version of the Black/Dark/White Use skills. Cuts the cooldown and durability costs of spells, though to a lesser degree than the skills that focus on one type of magic
Magic Range+1: We've seen combat arts depicted with ranges. This would expand the range for spell combat arts, though like with Magic Uses+, to a lesser degree than the other options
Tomefaire: Straightforward damage increase for all spell combat arts and the standard movset. Wouldn't increase combat arts as much as Black/Dark/White Tomefair

Playstyle: The normal moveset would be more 'focused' and better for dealing high damage in a smaller area compared to the other mage options, similar to how Linde was in FEW, and instead more reliant on its combat arts for aoe options, hence why its class skills are more focused on combat arts. The suggested lower effectiveness from their skills gives the class more utility without making the existence of Bishop, Dark Bishop, and Warlock redundant.

 

Paladin

Likelihood: 10/10

Want: 8/10

Planned Paladin characters: Right now, just Dimitri

Weapon Type: Swords and Lances

Skills

Canto: Provides a speed boost when defeating an enemy officer
Aegis: Adds a percentage of your luck stat to your resistance
Lancefaire: straightforward damage increase for lances

Playstyle: Sword moveset would be similar to Xander in FEW, where you rush in and do whatever the new spin combo would be, quickly moving from officer to officer to keep Canto up and running. Spear would be slower but have more range, focused more on racking up KOs, and while it'd still get canto, it wouldn't make as much use of it due to the slower playstyle

Warmaster

Unlike Olivier, I'm going to be under the assumption War Master is more focused on Gauntlets than Axes, as its the only Master Class with a Gauntlet proficiency, while Axes still have two other classes to pick from. I do think it'll still provide the axe based combat art, but I'm not too focused on that aspect of the classes personally

 

Likelihood: 10/10, only on foot Master class for axes without dismounting, and the only master class for gauntlets. Would be a weird exclusion.

Want: This largely depends on how good the Gauntlet movesets are. Past Warriors titles have been.....very awkward when it comes to the quality of hand-to-hand movesets

Planned Warmaster characters: Raphael, Byleth (if playable), Sylvain

Weapon Type: Gauntlets and Axes

Skills

Fistfaire: Straight damage increase to gauntlets
Tomebreaker: Huge damage boost against tome users
Quick Riposte: Prevent hitstun while attacking

Playstyle: War Master leans slightly more into gauntlets due to the lack of axefair, though Quick Riposte helps the likely slower axe moveset, preventing your combos from being interrupted. We have seen what looks to be an updated axebreaker icon on Shez, so I figured I'd throw in Tomebreaker to fill in the final remaining skill slot, as there aren't too many options that make sense, though that could be replaced with a dex stat-boosting variant to replace War Master's traditional Crit+20

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Vexal
bolding and underlining

[Fabulously Olivier]

On 4/17/2022 at 10:21 PM, tipperthescales said:

For whatever reason I never really assumed Forrest was quite equivalent to Hero...

Paladin

Likelihood - 9/10. As everyone else has already mentioned, an actual shame that lance cavalier was not a class in OG FEW; I believe both trailers show Kingdom (or Church) Paladins so it'd be shocking if they weren't around.

Desire - 8/10. Covers the void that the ground mounted units have (I would envision the moveset having even further melee range coverage compared with Frederick / Great Knight).
Characters - Jeralt if playable, the Three Nobles (Ferdie / Sylvain / Lorenz), Ingrid (though that pulls her out of Peg/Falcon), Dimitri (though I suspect most will go Sylvain or Ingrid for AG mounted unit), I guess Leonie as well?

Moveset - we know that for Claude at least Wyvern Master can dismount, so I'm going to assume that this class would as well. Mounted I would expect nothing less than a lance moveset, which could have some more broad sweeping attacks reminiscent of DW titles; though thrusts and helm splitting motions are a must as well. Preferably less horse acrobatics (save that for the bow knights lol). Dismounted, I'm a bit torn - a sword moveset would provide a swifter response, but we're otherwise lacking in non-mounted lance movesets that aren't Dimitri or armoured; though I'd probably be inclined to go lance here. 

Do we know that there even is dismounting and that it's not just footage of Claude as an archer vs. Claude as a Barbarossa?

 

4 hours ago, Vexal said:

In the spoiler tag will be my thoughts for the 3 days that I missed, as I didn't know this was going on until today as I haven't really checked the forum in forever. Skills will be what I think they do and not exactly what they will do, for obvious reason. Also assuming skills can be freely put on and off ala the first Warriors game since we haven't seen any details on the skill system. I'll also be operating on the assumption each class gives 3 skills considering we've seen 3 grayed out stars next to the class name for the classes in the trailer that wasn't Shez's. Weapon access will also be assuming that they follow the 3H class proficiencies

 

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Hero

Likelihood: 7/10 Recurring iconic class so likely in

Want: 4/10 Not too big on axes, and I imagine there will be better sword classes to boot.

Planned Hero characters: None, would likely play the class just to get the skills

Weapon type: Swords and Axes, assuming classes get any weapons that are available through their 3H class proficiencies

Skills

Swordfaire: Basic damage increase on a rather straightforward class is a no brainer.

Vantage: Could provide bonus damage against captains so long as you keep your health above 50%, which is also easy to pull off

Defiant Strength: An alternative to Vantage, but provides a higher boost since you're playing a riskier strategy

Playstyle: Assuming movesets are class based and not necessarily weapon based will be all around basic, with average speed, range, and damage output whether you go for sword or axes compared to the other classes that use those weapons, though the sword set will be weaker than the axe set, while the axe set is slower


Gremory

Likelihood: 10/10 if no gender locked classes, as it'd be a rather weird omission if there weren't gender locks, otherwise a 4/10 likelihood

Want: 10/10, loved the mage playstyle in FEW and what I saw of Hubert in the recent trailer, so a potential Gremory has me super excited

Planned Gremory characters: Hubert (if no gender locks), Lysithea, and Annette

Weapon type: Tomes

Skills

Magic Uses+: Rebranded and condensed version of the Black/Dark/White Use skills. Cuts the cooldown and durability costs of spells, though to a lesser degree than the skills that focus on one type of magic
Magic Range+1: We've seen combat arts depicted with ranges. This would expand the range for spell combat arts, though like with Magic Uses+, to a lesser degree than the other options
Tomefaire: Straightforward damage increase for all spell combat arts and the standard movset. Wouldn't increase combat arts as much as Black/Dark/White Tomefair

Playstyle: The normal moveset would be more 'focused' and better for dealing high damage in a smaller area compared to the other mage options, similar to how Linde was in FEW, and instead more reliant on its combat arts for aoe options, hence why its class skills are more focused on combat arts. The suggested lower effectiveness from their skills gives the class more utility without making the existence of Bishop, Dark Bishop, and Warlock redundant.

 

Paladin

Likelihood: 10/10

Want: 8/10

Planned Paladin characters: Right now, just Dimitri

Weapon Type: Swords and Lances

Skills

Canto: Provides a speed boost when defeating an enemy officer
Aegis: Adds a percentage of your luck stat to your resistance
Lancefaire: straightforward damage increase for lances

Playstyle: Sword moveset would be similar to Xander in FEW, where you rush in and do whatever the new spin combo would be, quickly moving from officer to officer to keep Canto up and running. Spear would be slower but have more range, focused more on racking up KOs, and while it'd still get canto, it wouldn't make as much use of it due to the slower playstyle

Warmaster

Unlike Olivier, I'm going to be under the assumption War Master is more focused on Gauntlets than Axes, as its the only Master Class with a Gauntlet proficiency, while Axes still have two other classes to pick from. I do think it'll still provide the axe based combat art, but I'm not too focused on that aspect of the classes personally

 

Likelihood: 10/10, only on foot Master class for axes without dismounting, and the only master class for gauntlets. Would be a weird exclusion.

 

Unfortunately, unless there is either weapon swap (with higher classes offering better versions of movesets for both lower classes weapons), those kinds of disconnects will just exist. For example, it's a reasonable assumption that Wyvern Lord will only be axes. But what about Seteth? Unless they bring back the Wyvern Knight from Sacred Stones, he'd have to choose between his canon weapon and canon class line.

 

Anyway

 

Day 5 - Dancer

 

Yes, I'm counting this as a magical class for the rotation, being that it's magically-inclined. This should be a fun discussion since the topic of everyone's favorite dancer choices has been a staple of 3H.

 

Sword moveset with spells enabled.

Olivia from FEW is a perfect implementation of the dancer moveset. I can't unpicture it.

 

Dance will restore musou and/or awakening gauges to an ally, and likely buff stats like a Rally would. 

 

Sword Dance would be the signature combat art of this class, dodging incomimg attacks during the attack frame and dealing damage based on Charm.

 

Sword Avoid would be tough to implement. It would either function similarly to Aegis, improve your dodge distance and possibly add in a quick dodge attack animation, or make you dodge all attacks under a certain condition (like briefly when close to death or while Awakened).

 

My dancer of choice is Marianne. 

[tipperthescales]

51 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Do we know that there even is dismounting and that it's not just footage of Claude as an archer vs. Claude as a Barbarossa?

Admittedly it's a hypothesis, but when you compare the map state when Claude is mounted vs on foot in Trailer 1:

1. Claude's minimap sprite is still on a wyvern in both instances (bizarrely both him on the white wyvern and while an infantry display it as Wyvern Master's sprite)

2. The overall map state is effectively the same save for the positions of Claude, the Demonic Beast, and one random enemy with the triple up chevron (probably a flier captain).

Spoiler

==========

Back to Dancer

Likelihood - 6/10, but only because I'm not sure from a thematic perspective how the White Heron Cup unfolds, also would we be limited to only one student taking up the mantle again? If there was a means to free it from such a unique state, I'd raise the score more (especially if we can get non students into the class)

Desire - 7/10, still a very solid class regardless and comes with possible additional utility.

Characters - if locked to the student body, Dorothea / Marianne, with maaaaaybe for Annette / a wild pick such as Ignatz. Manuela definitely if the class isn't student locked.

Moveset - I feel like Azura did the mixed melee / magic moveset better than Olivia did, but it is so that swords are the common element from FEW to this game. I still feel that swords would be the primary equipped weapon but perhaps the Cx attacks go for magic while the Rx chain stays sword focused. Perhaps they could sneak in some sort of rally effect on the Cx much like HW Sheik's harp Cx attacks granted certain self-buffs (though for a dancer I'd expect AoE and maybe not self buff)?

Skills - assuming the Dance gauge carries over, Dance is covered (but it would probably only increase Warrior and presumably Awakening gauges; if the bottom gauge is Durability that shouldn't be replenished, but it it is a cooldown gauge then it definitely should). Special Dance would add those temporary stat boosts (a la Rally) to allies during Dance. I'd take a page out of AoC and give Sword Avoid some sword of upgraded dodge (somewhat paralleling a Flurry Rush window but without copying it wholesale) though more likely just for i-frames duration rather than increased dodge distance.

Combat Arts - the class actually has a dedicated combat art in Sword Dance, which might mirror one of Olivia's Cx combos. Otherwise the magical damge type sword combat arts (Hexblade / Soulblade) and possibly also Finesse Blade.

Edited April 19, 2022 by tipperthescales

[Vexal]

1 minute ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Unfortunately, unless there is either weapon swap (with higher classes offering better versions of movesets for both lower classes weapons), those kinds of disconnects will just exist. For example, it's a reasonable assumption that Wyvern Lord will only be axes. But what about Seteth? Unless they bring back the Wyvern Knight from Sacred Stones, he'd have to choose between his canon weapon and canon class line.

Wouldn't need a weapon swap mechanic for a class to have access to multiple weapons, you'd just equip which one you want to use before the battle starts and that determines which moveset you get, which is actually exactly how Dynasty Warriors: Strikeforce worked back when they were originally messing with giving characters access to more than one weapon in that series.

Anyways, the Dancer this one should be interesting, considering its regular Dance skill would translate as a gameplay mechanic rather than as a skill when in the framing of a Warriors title

Likelihood: I.....actually don't find Dancer being that likely this time around, if only due to the nature of having to pick one character to become the Dancer...Doesn't exactly fit with how it was framed in 3H where the teacher had to decide. At the same time it's popular and was one of the defining aspects of 3H, so I'll give it a 5/10 likelihood

Want: On the other hand, I would really like to see how the class would work, so an easy 8/10 on the want scale.

Weapon Types: Sword, with access to magic combat arts

Skills

Special Dance:  Refills your special gauge whenever you dance, based on the number of troops and captains effected by the dance. Effectively how the support skills work in Samurai Warriors. Without this your dance just does a stat increase for anyone effected by your dance. This would be the only skill granted by the class itself, the rest would have to be filled in from skills obtained through other means
 

Playstyle: A sword user with a focus of attacking around themselves rather than in front, with magic combat art access to supplement their moveset. They would have a stock system similar to what Claude w/Wyvern, Dimitri, and Shez seem to have, which allows them to do dances, though dancing is most beneficial if you have the Special Dance skill equipped. Dancing could provide a movement speed boost normally, but also apply any rallies you have equipped? Regardless, it'd be a class you'd switch to after getting the skills you want, rather than something you rush for.