Cindered Shadows Challenge Run

[haarhaarhaar]

Taking on board the ideas people gave me from a previous thread, I've decided to try a Cindered Shadows challenge run as a way of getting back into the game. I'm going to write up a log of every chapter on here - if people have suggestions/tips for how to handle what's to come, or just comments on the challenge run itself, then by all means get involved.

Rules: True Novice

If a character's proficiency is higher than E rank, they cannot use anything associated with that weapon/movement type. If an ability or class available required them to achieve a weapon rank of higher than E, then they cannot use that ability/class. 

(When I was thinking of challenge rules, I was trying to figure out what challenges I could do that CS in particular could be good for, then I remembered that skill ranks can't be raised in CS. I'd imagine it's quite tough to use these rules in the main game, just because your main units would get past E rank in everything pretty easily.)

Difficulty: Normal/Classic (I originally tried Hard/Classic, but Balthus' personal combined with his pod of enemies wiped me out a lot so I gave up)

Here's my write up of Chapter 1 - hopefully more to come!

The Fourth House

Spoiler

Turn Count: 30

MVP: Dimitri

One thing I learnt from repeatedly failing this challenge run on Hard/Classic was that the Marketplace is accessible from the battle menu! I actually can't believe I never noticed this before, or that the shop is available before you get to explore the Abyss. This was really crucial.

The only classes available to CS units that don't require weapon/movement ranks are Commoner/Noble, so everybody immediately goes into that. Nobody has E rank Authority, so no battalions. The only ability that doesn't require weapon ranks beyond E to reach is HP +5, so that's the only ability my characters get. No magic is accessible at E, so no healing and Linhardt becomes trash.

There was also the conundrum of Claude/Ashe having E ranks in Lances and Brawling (but not other physical weapons), and Dimitri being the only unit to start with Lances. Without buying weapons, that meant I could only send 5 characters into battle originally. Thankfully, I got over this first hurdle of using a basic shopping mechanic, sold everything that wasn't Iron or below, and spent all my money on fitting everyone with their weapons. Finally, I'm ready for battle. Here's the outfit:

Byleth: Iron Axe, Iron Bow, Mace, Concoction x2

Edelgard: Iron Bow, Iron Gauntlets, Concoction

Dimitri: Iron Bow, Iron Gauntlets, Concoction

Claude: Iron Lance, Iron Gauntlets, Concoction

Hilda: Iron Sword, Sword of the Creator, Iron Bow, Concoction

Ashe: Iron Lance, Iron Gauntlets, Concoction

Linhardt: Iron Axe, Iron Bow, Concoction

The opening part of the battle has two Assassins which, on Hard, are a real pain to tank, but thankfully are far less powerful on Normal. This is my first time playing 3H or CS on Normal difficulty, so I'm not too sure what difficulty to expect going in. I'm also fairly prepared for how Balthus's group will move due to the experiences on Hard. He's the first boss of the four CS characters that you have to defeat to clear the map, and a couple of Grapplers and a Sniper move with him. His personal makes me overly cautious, but as it turns out I only need the turn he moves into range to kill him and one of the Grapplers - the other two are mopped up fairly easily on my next Player Phase. Manipulating enemy aggro by equipping bows is also a useful trick. I have to watch for health though, since I have no healing bar Concoctions. 

After easily dealing with a couple of Paladins to the south, Hapi summons a worm and runs away. The worm is surprisingly easy on Normal - I even managed to wipe all its barriers, although I can't imagine Agarthium will be much use. Next, however, comes a passageway to the south which Hapi can cover with magic. Step forward, Linhardt, to act as my Res-tank, so one of my archers can do some chip damage. Which is sloppy of me, because Hapi of course has Banshee and Canto, allowing her to stun-lock Linhardt and then move out of range of the archers. I use my first Divine Pulse here (because I know Constance is still to come).

Because nobody has more than 4 movement, after dealing with the reinforcements I have to send my units over one at a time so they can cross over without landing in Hapi's range. I come to the second part of the passageway - Hapi also covers a part of this passageway, but a bigger issue is the armour/mage combo near the corner. Again, wasteful play from me, as I send in Byleth to tank both, but she doesn't have enough health (by 1 point) to do it, so Divine Pulse, and repeat after a Vulnerary use. I was trying to conserve healing potion usage, which is already a bit tight, but I'm going to regret spending the DP later. This time I lure them successfully, but with the cramped nature of taking them on in the corner (and the fact that only Mace Byleth can do serious damage to the armour) I have to take a lot of damage in order to deal with them. I repeat the bait with Edelgard/Dimitri this time for the Sniper group at the end of the passageway, before having to do yet another creep across to avoid Hapi. This passageway has eaten about 20 turns now, so I'm getting a little impatient, and lure two Pegasus Knights with only Byleth, Dimitri and Hilda out of the passageway - thankfully, the encounter goes my way.

Now it's time to deal with Constance. I get everyone past the Hapi turret, and now have so many bow users available that I only need her to get in range to finish her - but she crits Linhardt, so Divine Pulse for me. After that, Linhardt finally does the magic tanking I needed him to do before Edelgard one-shots her. The mages with her start coming over and things are looking a little dangerous - Linhardt doesn't have enough health, even after healing, to deal with both of them. I spend the rest of the turn getting ready to bait the mages and healing up, but this turns out to backfire, as the Yuri group (and Hapi, though she's still behind a locked door) decide to move with the mages, even though I haven't baited them. I'm faced with a few difficult choices. If I try to retreat strategically and change my position, I risk the Grapplers/Assassin picking anyone they like and ganging up to kill them. Even if I go full-on offense, Yuri is far enough away that only two units can reach him - and the kill is far from guaranteed. Rubble in the nearest corner means that I can't return to a full defensive formation without leaving at least Linhardt exposed.

I decide to try full-on offense, sending Ashe to open Hapi's door and Dimitri for the kill. Immediately things go wrong, and Dimitri misses his first shot (94 displayed accuracy). There's now no way for me to kill Hapi this turn, because Dimitri is occupying the only ranged position. So I Divine Pulse back to the previous turn, and have Ashe and Dimitri combine to kill Hapi now - they do so without issue. Of course, I'm still fairly vulnerable this turn, but I'm hoping to be able to swarm Yuri. However, this time his group move differently, and Yuri is only in range of Byleth. Full-on offense is now out of the question, and I'm spread a little thinly for defense, but it's either that or multiple deaths. I manage to take out the two mages at low cost thanks to two clutch crits! They are the significant threat (they can wipe most of the health bar of any of my party). Feeling much safer, I send Byleth to draw some aggro and leave Hilda out to hold the line. Unfortunately, I've forgotten about the best feature of Fetters of Dromi, which is innate Canto. Yuri doubles Hilda then runs off, allowing a Grappler to down her and then the Assassin crits Edelgard. Divine Pulse time, and now gauntlets Claude (who has the most health after healing, and because Edelgard isn't within range) is sent in to hold the line. He does, but it costs him his life. 

I'm now out of Divine Pulses, so it's either keep going or restart. Remembering that this battle will take at least 25 turns, and that I've never actually let a unit die before, I decide to try something new and leave Claude behind. Sorry Claude. Since he couldn't use ranged attacks, he was only better than Ashe and Linhardt in terms of combat. It was certainly better than the previous go of things, but in hindsight I should have rewound to pre-Constance and taken things slower. Oh well. Now it's everybody on Yuri, who is almost able to survive thanks to Fetters of Dromi (Aegis triggered on every attack), but goes down after the fourth unit engages. Mission clear, just.

Analysis

Dimitri, Edelgard, and Byleth were all great with bows, as you'd expect, and Dimitri and Edelgard were both very effective with gauntlets. Steel Shield Edelgard was fairly tough, and still had enough Avo/AS for most enemies. Dimitri was my MVP, probably because he got a good early level off Balthus, and so had an edge in combat. This meant Edelgard/Byleth were doing more of the tanking, and Dimitri got more kills, and so on with the loop. But all three of them really pulled their weight here.

Ashe and Claude were only a bit worse than them with gauntlets. Ashe was even quadding sometimes! Still fragile, but much better than he's been for me in the main game. Locktouch was also helpful, since I didn't have the space to get the Door Key off Claude before killing Hapi. Lances were almost completely useless on them, which is worth bearing in mind for the Ashen Wolves. Hilda was also solid, met a couple of kill thresholds with SOTC, and was also good with the bow. Her high HP also meant she could keep up with the lords on defense. 

Unfortunately, Linhardt was only slightly better than useless. He dealt no damage with anything on Hard, so it's an improvement on that, but he still didn't have enough Res to take more than one hit from any enemy mage on Normal. Worrying sign for Constance/Hapi. 

Not too sure how much the loss of Claude will hurt going forwards - I vaguely remember Chapter 2 requiring a lot of offensive coverage, but that might be balanced out by having fewer units in Chapter 4. I certainly don't want to lose anyone else, although Linhardt is looking superfluous at this point. As I expected, the big things that hurt here were 4-range movement and characters  having limited healing and requiring their action to do it - I'm going to have to spend most of my money on Vulneraries/Concoctions for next battle. I also missed out on quite a lot of kill thresholds due to no combat arts. However, the significant failures in this level I can chalk up to sloppy play - hopefully as I shake off the rust and get back into the mindset I can cut back on that, and I can already see where I went wrong pretty clearly. Going forward, I'm hopeful that Yuri/Balthus will more than make up for no Claude, and Constance/Hapi will be better physical units than Linhardt. But I'm really thankful I didn't continue trying this on Hard - if it's even possible, I think this ruleset would certainly be beyond me. 

 

[Bylift]

This is a badass challenge. Looking forward to hearing about the next few chapters.

AND… I never knew you could shop at the beginning either 😳. Thanks for sharing that bit of info. 

[haarhaarhaar]

21 hours ago, Bylift said:

This is a badass challenge. Looking forward to hearing about the next few chapters.

AND… I never knew you could shop at the beginning either 😳. Thanks for sharing that bit of info. 

Thanks! And yeah, I'm learning all kinds of things about the game with this run.

 

Write-up of Chapter 2 below!

What Lies Beneath

Spoiler

Turn Count: 17

MVP: Edelgard

Well, Jesus. I went into this run with fairly little forward planning, and my knowledge of what was to come was based solely on my memories of my first run ages ago - and this chapter didn't stand out to me much at the time. Now, I won't ever forget it. 

This chapter, we get control of the Ashen Wolves - although of course, not their special classes or abilities. Especially exciting are the two relics, Fetters of Dromi and Vajra-Mushti. Nearly everyone wants the gauntlets, but the choice comes down to Dimitri and Edelgard, who are 1 and 2 respectively for Str (and Def). I decide to give them to Edelgard, so that Dimitri can have the Steel Shield and take on tanking duties. Yuri keeps the Fetters for now - every one of my frontliners would benefit well from Canto/+1 Mv, but I predict that Yuri will need the Aegis/Pavise effect to stay on the frontlines. I buy bows for all four of them, Balthus gets Claude's lance, and Yuri gets his gauntlets. After I buy the bare minimum of Concoctions to provide everyone with healing, I'm almost completely out of cash, so I head to battle.

I vaguely remember that my tactic last time around was to prioritise regrouping, but I'm a little worried about engaging on two fronts given my lack of firepower, so I have my main army head west, avoiding enemies. Meanwhile the AWs on the main dais skirt the range of the Aura users - Constance is my Res-tank, since she's the only one who can reach the Avo tile in their range. But, the Avo tiles are for physical avoidance only and Constance gets wiped, so DP. Second go, I try tanking with Yuri at his starting point, but this triggers the Assassins as well, which is enough to overwhelm the AWs. Things aren't looking good. Third go, I try to split the aggro between Yuri and Constance, giving up on using the tiles for now. This works, and Yuri activates his Aegis for the first time - plenty more of that to come. Yuri kills one of them, but the other survives Balthus, Constance and Hapi, so yet another DP. Now, I have Yuri do the tanking by himself - and he does so brilliantly, Aegis-ing both attacks. Finally, I get the kills, and there's nothing between me and the main army. For their part, the main army just have to reach them, but this takes me to Turn 4, and the first wave of reinforcements trigger. I've only cleared a couple of enemies out by this point, so I have fairly little choice but to hunker down and try to take them on. They also inevitably split up to attack over the dais and along the lower level, meaning I have to defend multiple chokepoints. This isn't easy, as even my best tanks can only survive two or three encounters in a turn, and then cannot risk a counter until they've healed. The snipers gang up on Balthus, so now it's my final shot to defend, but this time an assassin crits Ashe and a warrior kills Constance, so that's game over. I discover, for the first time, that on Normal you can choose to retain EXP after a lost battle. Good to know, although I won't use that feature unless my back is really against the wall. 

My next try with this tactic also doesn't fare better, so I give up on the low-aggression tactic. It's also at this point that I remember the gimmick of Chapter 6, which leads me to realisation no. 1.

1) Linhardt is not worth investment. 

I normally play trying to get the best out of every unit, and began doing that with Linhardt. However, his damage output is next to non-existent, which means I have to baby him if he's going to deal non-zero damage in later chapters. The introduction of Constance and Hapi, who turn out to be not much better, means that I'd then have to baby all three. And, if I'm going to clear this challenge run, I have to look after Constance and Hapi, otherwise I will be soft-locked out of the later chapters. Without Claude, I have five units that can normally survive a turn on the frontline, Ashe (who in fairness can take at least one hit) and then three weaklings who combined can manage chip damage less than one attack from a frontline. The ratios are just too poor. This means Linhardt will only be useful for three things: linked attack bonuses for Edelgard, potentially breaking a monster's barrier, and being a meat shield. 

 

I have another go, this time leaving the mage-tanking to Yuri from the start and being a bit more aggressive with the enemies near the main army. This also stops them from joining the assassins later, so I think this has to be the better move, even though it puts more pressure on my healing and slows down regrouping. This time I realise that the reinforcements are turn-based, so the AWs instead join the main army off one corner of the dais so that enemy snipers can't shoot me from safety. This, however, puts me in range of two armors, and I realise too late that only Mace Byleth and Vajra-Mushti Edelgard can deal significant damage to an armor. There was only one armor in Chapter 1 as part of a two-unit group, which meant Byleth could wipe it out over two phases. But here, with multiple armors alongside other enemies, not having a way of ORKOing the armors means I have to pick either normal enemies or the two armors, and engage with only one group. I choose the normal enemies, and clear some of them, although now everyone is looking ragged. Just in time for Turn 8, and reinforcement set no. 2. I can already see how this is going to end, and even though I can (barely) outrun the armors, I won't be able to kite them while dealing with the new set, especially since this group is mage-heavy and has a wyvern. This, unfortunately, leads me to realisation no. 2.

2) I'm going to have to go back for Claude

I haven't yet reached the point where I can't do this without him. But it seems like only a matter of time. Claude's defense is only better than Ashe and the mages, but that already puts him in the middle of the pack. More importantly, this map will force me to fight on multiple fronts, so I won't have the luxury of everyone being on ranged attack duty anyway. Claude won't be able to help with the armors, but he can free up Byleth/Edelgard, and I need all the damage-dealing I can get. I curse my incompetence that I used my Divine Pulses to save Linhardt and not Claude last chapter, before restarting the run. 

 

Restarting the run teaches me some new things about the game. Turns out, that I had been playing on a difficulty mode that was in between Hard and Normal. I began the run on Hard, but after finding it too challenging, switched the difficulty to Normal. While this changed the quality of enemies on the map, it didn't change my starting gold or my number of Divine Pulses. Restarting the run from Normal meant my Divine Pulses doubled, and my starting cash more than doubled (I think, I didn't notice before I started spending). Brilliant news! I can't imagine playing Normal without a challenge restriction, but right now I'm thanking my lucky stars for how this difficulty mode helps people out. The redo of Chapter 1 poses no difficulty up until the Yuri group + mages at the end, who always move to cover him. Taking him on outside his starting area (the idea borne from failure last time) is less than ideal, because he can reach Avo tiles with Canto. I have to spend a couple of Divine Pulses figuring out how to arrange my formation so that I can stay within range of Yuri but also not over-extend. Ultimately, I manage to force Yuri into Hapi's chamber and off the Avo tiles, which allows me to shoot him to death. As a fun bit of irony, Claude is my MVP this time around.

Back to this level. My newfound status of high-roller allows me to buy a Mace for Yuri, a couple more concoctions, a Steel Shield for Balthus and forge some bows/gauntlets into Iron+ weapons. I could only dream of this kind of largesse last time around. All my new kit gives me the confidence to attempt my most aggressive version of this level yet, where I focus on clearing everything out, and try to stake out territory to fight the reinforcements from instead of being forced into defensive positions. And it works like a dream! Yuri is able to tank one assassin at a time, and the other AWs combine to kill the one he weakened. My newly powerful army also meet the reinforcements before they can really bunch up, so I'm able to beat a couple of them as the armors get close. Other enemies have also avoided my main army though, so I have no choice but to try regrouping. In desperation, I protect Balthus (who tanked the previous round) by offering up Constance and Hapi to take aggro. It just about works, and now everybody has arrived. But so do the next reinforcement. I now know from the previous run that nobody can deal with the Warlock/Holy Knight on the same turn as anything else, so I need to have cleared out most of the other enemies before they reach me. The Wyvern also looks threatening, but inefficient movement from them gives me room to breathe. Still, I'm faced with the two-front problem. 

Dimitri's Iron Bow+ can actually do mild chip on the armors, which is enough for Edelgard to finish them with. I have to be careful about using Vajra-Mushti - it can basically only be for armors because Edelgard will quad them, and she also has to take a counter in doing so. Byleth and Yuri deal with the other. Unfortunately, Balthus can't hurt armors unless his personal activates, and his naturally low accuracy alongside using a lance means he can't help here. This means Balthus and Claude have to deal with the infantry, which isn't ideal, and I use my first DP here after Balthus gets overwhelmed. I immediately give up on holding the front and instead lure them into the Avo tile area. Which gets pretty crowded, but it gives me time to clear the armors. One consequence of that is that I don't have good positioning to deal with the mages and the wyvern, which are now within range. I spend another couple of DPs figuring out what to do - the solution is to leave the lower-tier mages (a couple of Priests) alive, along with the Warlock, kill the wyvern/Holy Knight with bows, and get aggro to draw the Warlock in a different direction to anyone else. It's in that situation that the final set of reinforcements arrive. I'm in desperate need of healing, and Edelgard/Claude have lost their concoctions. I momentarily regret all the forging I did. The final set almost all have more mobility than me by far, so I'm going to have to go on the defensive for this.

And then... IN COMES THE DEATH KNIGHT. I don't know how I forgot about this key enemy. There's no way on earth I can deal with him, nor would I want to (the Crescent Sickle drop would sell for a decent amount, but it isn't worth the hassle). Unfortunately, he makes a straight beeline for my group (I'm on the same side of the map, lower level north corner) and is within a couple turns' range of me. The plan has to change now, as everybody is going to need to move west as much as possible, while remaining in formation and out of as many ranges as they can. It's an impossible task, because there are so many paladins and a sniper inbound, as well as infantry and wyverns coming over the dais. A peaceful turn passes, but I'm pretty much trapped in the north of the map, pincered between the red army and the Death Knight. Even if I can break through one side, I don't have the mobility to make use of it - and that would also involve creating a weakness somewhere else. The wyverns are just shy of my army. Paladins lurk around one corner. The Death Knight is now in range of my east wing, lurking on an avoid tile. And then, a miracle happens.

An enemy paladin comes towards the Death Knight. They swing Horseslayer - and hit! The Death Knight finishes them with a good old crit, but I begin to entertain hope that I can fight the Death Knight on my turn (the east side is by far the least congested, and would buy me a turn if I could retreat there). And then, another enemy paladin charges the Death Knight, with Horseslayer, and kills him! I literally can't believe my eyes. Their displayed hit rates were both below 20. The RNG gods have smiled on me, and I gratefully accept their blessings.

This leaves only one paladin in the north-east. Things still look relatively dire on the other sides, but crucially I can shoot down the wyverns and withdraw Hapi and Constance this turn. It turns out not to be enough, as Balthus gets overwhelmed. Neither Hilda nor Dimitri can fill the position he's in without dying, and a couple more DPs down I give it up, instead just hastily retreating and baiting with bodies. An assassin gets a crit on Balthus this time, so one more DP to replace him with Yuri, who stays alive. The sniper also finally comes into range, so on this turn I use everyone to mop up the remaining enemies. Funnily enough, I even need Linhardt to deal the killing blow to the sniper. And that's it - full rout of the map!

Analysis

Constance and Hapi are better than Linhardt, but only slightly. Neither of their personals were useful this level, but their bow chip was slightly higher than Linhardt's. Like Linhardt, they mostly spent their time running away or being forced to take a hit for the team literally. I don't know how I'm going to feed them kills - I can't reliably reduce enemies to their thresholds.

Yuri was brilliant. I was completely right about needing Aegis/Pavise on him - the amount of combat he saw meant they triggered often and kept him at the level of the other tanks despite the 15 HP difference between them. As did his Crest, which is pretty nice when he uses gauntlets on Player Phase. Balthus actually had the worst Player Phase of my physical characters, because being the only physical character without gauntlets really hurts. His stats are fine, but he doesn't have the speed he'd need to match everyone else's damage or double with bows. He can chip with bows, although his accuracy is a bit worrying. Whether he gets a Steel Shield next turn or not will be dependent on how things go. 

Claude is basically a better Ashe, and I was definitely right to go back for him - he got ORKOs and withstood damage Ashe couldn't, although his tanking isn't very reliable. Hilda has been absolutely brilliant, especially since she got Gauntlets (SOTC is pretty pointless on her now, but there's no one else who could use it better), and combat-wise is more of a Lord than Claude. I'm finally beginning to understand the hype around her.

But Edelgard was rightfully the MVP this level. I still needed Dimitri and Byleth to put in a shift, but Edelgard did absolutely everything, from tanking to damage to kiting to ranged attacks, and often while alone or on perilously low health. Dimitri was only just behind her in performance - I think him having a Steel Shield and not Edelgard worked better than last time, and he had to heal the least of everyone. Byleth was also strong as usual, but having Axes instead of Gauntlets makes her less reliable at close range. 

Before restarting, I was really afraid I couldn't do this chapter - the difficulty spike between Chapters 1 and 2, while sensible if you play normally, is pretty intense with this ruleset. I can genuinely say that it was the extra money, even more than Claude, that made the run - the difference between having two people who can halve an armor's health and three is really significant. Even still, I don't know what I would have done without that extraordinary piece of luck with the Death Knight. I'd have to figure out how to manipulate its AI so it targets the reinforcements, while my army is on the other side of the map. Maybe that can be done? Anyway, that was a pretty testing chapter, and at any moment I'm ready to discover that this run can't be done. But for now, we move on.