Is Silver Snow worth playing?

[DaveCozy]

Yeah in terms of canon I don't think there really is a route that is defined as one. And honestly there doesn't need to be either, not everything needs a golden or true ending.

Anyway, story-wise I agree it's not the greatest route, arguably the worst. But when it comes to the gameplay challenge I think it's fun enough to give it at least one try. That's why I personally think it's worth playing.

[MadBoar]

16 hours ago, NEMESIS/GSS #1 SIMP said:

Well I'm sorry that I didn't get the knowledge from playing a ton of previous fire emblem games. Three Houses was many people's first FE game. The illness thing should've been brought up before the final battle with Rhea. 

The developers could have done a better job at showing this to new FE players. They could have shown Rhea squirming in excruciating pain, and then have her transform into the mad dragon. 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

28 minutes ago, MadBoar said:

The developers could have done a better job at showing this to new FE players. They could have shown Rhea squirming in excruciating pain, and then have her transform into the mad dragon. 

That doesn't really improve anything. "Why is she squirming in excruciating pain?" If the only answer is "because dragon", that's not particularly satisfying. Especially to players who already played Verdant Wind, where Rhea has the same arc... yet she doesn't "degenerate".

[Bylift]

1 hour ago, DaveCozy said:

Anyway, story-wise I agree it's not the greatest route, arguably the worst. But when it comes to the gameplay challenge I think it's fun enough to give it at least one try. That's why I personally think it's worth playing

Agreed on this. I stopped watching cut scenes and supports a long time ago. The reason I keep coming back and playing routes on Maddening NG or NG+ is entirely because I love the gameplay, and SS provides a different challenge than VW due to absence of Claude.

[henrymidfields]

Eh, unless if you've already started it, I wouldn't bother. As far as I'm aware, there's only a few changes from Verdant Wind, you don't get to play as Claude, and the Gronder Chapter is missing. There is some major story stuff and some nice drama if you S-support Rhea, so it depends on whether you're happy to romance her. I personally wish SS was merged with AM and have SS's extra worldbuilding incorporated into AM.

Edited May 12, 2022 by henrymidfields

[Parrhesia]

Silver Snow is great, characterisation as 'Verdant Wind sans Claude' is inaccurate... but if you've played VW I still wouldn't devote another playthrough to what will mechanically be 95% the same maps, with a team you've already experienced. I'd probably just put the game down at this point and call it job done, especially with an Azure run already paused due to burnout. Just finish that and call it IMO.

[Azz]

Silver Snow's story is great, on paper that is. It is by far one of the most emotional routes with your main lord betraying you, you and your motely crew of students having to fight back against their home of the empire, feeling like a tiny force of the church surrounded by three other larger factions all trying to stomp each other out. Then you find Rhea, you eradicate those who were behind the death of your father and many students, you learn of your backstory and the story culminates in the tragic finale where you must kill the woman you spent your entire time trying to save.

However, in practise, the story lacks an emotional centre the other three routes have. As much as I love Seteth and Flayn, they don't do anything interesting in how they fill the role of the main lord and just can't match Dimitri, Claude or Edelgard. The only thing unique Seteth does is call out Byleth if they say something stupid and even then that's rare. The BE don't really contribute much. Considering this is the route where they have to fight against the women who was their house leader and also their homeland, you would think they would have a lot to contribute, but they really don't. Also, Edelgard as an antagonist feels wholly underutilised. You see here once at the reunion at dawn and then again in the chapter you kill her. It's very unclimactic. Then, as others have mentioned, you have the unprecedented crazed Immaculate One. While I do enjoy this fight and symbolism it represents, it is hard to get past the fact it does come out of no where. If Silver Snow had one more chapter, I think it could've helped explain what could've happened to Rhea, like maybe if she ran away from the monastery, fearing what was coming  and you had to chase after her. Obviously this still would've been a bit of an ass pull (especially considering the exact same events happen in VW yet she doesn't transform there but yeah...).

Overall, I really do enjoy SS despite its weaknesses story wise. It has the most solid story out of the four routes imo but just no emotion to it. On top of the fact it as a route has the least unique elements to compared to other routes, I would say, unless you want to have said you played all four routes, you can avoid SS all together, which is unfortunate imo.

[Dark Holy Elf]

The lack of emotional connection between the party members is very stark.

I encourage someone to prove me wrong here but in the years of devouring fanart for this game, I don't think I've ever seen someone draw a specific grouping of Seteth + Flayn + the six Silver Snow Eagles. Seteth and Flayn both support fewer members of the Eagles than any other House. The Eagles barely remark on what fighting their homeland, Hubert, and Ferdinand would mean to them. As a fan of a number of those characters, the whole thing feels very hollow.

Maybe that's the point. I've definitely seen it argued the route is intended as a tragedy, that everyone becomes the worst version of themselves: Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude, Byleth, the Eagles, even Rhea. I myself go back and forth as to whether the route is deliberately tragic or just a shell of a first draft for other routes.

[drattakbowser]

When I say "Fight Against the Least Amount of Former Students". I have analysed Crimson Flower you need to fight 14 unrecruited students in Crimson Flower, 15 in Azure Moon, 15 in Verdant Wind and 4 in Silver Snow.

Silver Snow is good for those who hate to fight against many students.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:13 PM, MadBoar said:

Rhea's "dragon disease" did not come out of nowhere. In other fire emblem games, we learn that dying dragons go mad and crazy. Duma went mad when he was dying.  In fire emblem 3 / its remake, it was implied that Tiki was at risk of going mad at some point.  Rhea got hit by nukes, and so she started decaying and dying. That led to her going mad. 

I haven't payed attention to anything story related since 2019 but wasn't Rhea's berserker episode caused by the Empire? Some line about how they've been experimenting on her for the last five years in the scene where you rescue her. And the only experiments we're aware of them doing to people are the kind they did on the Remire village. Did that subplot of turning people berserk ever come up again elsewhere? I figured that was the setup for SS's finale, they just needed to kidnap Flayn and Rhea to test against their unique physiology. They were unsuccessful with Flayn (maybe because she can't transform at all?), but after five years they got something with Rhea. Putting her in a situation where she must transform might have also been the catalyst to activate the drug. That would answer the question of "If Rhea can turn into a dragon, why didn't she break herself out?" She must have known what would happen if she transformed, and the nuke scene was a genuine attempt at self-sacrifice.

Not sure I like using the Dragon disease lore of Archanea to explain the actions of dragons of other worlds. Seen people use that to excuse the motivations with Fates, but if the game doesn't say it, then there's no need to be presumptuous. The only degeneration we see in Fodlan is Seteth and Flayn losing their transformed forms, while the still-living giant crest creatures presumably can't morph back to a human. But in all these cases, these people still retain their mental faculties. It's purely a physical deficiency that might just be explained by them getting old, not sick. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Zapp Branniglenn

[Shotguner159]

7 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I haven't payed attention to anything story related since 2019 but wasn't Rhea's berserker episode caused by the Empire? Some line about how they've been experimenting on her for the last five years in the scene where you rescue her.

No. Seteth specifically calls her unharmed in that scene.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

8 hours ago, Shotguner159 said:

No. Seteth specifically calls her unharmed in that scene.

It's not about hurting her, but experimenting with her blood. I looked up the relevant scenes in Silver Snow, and there's no mention of what they actually wanted with Rhea. Verdant Wind's version has Claude spell out that the javelins of light are born of their blood magic. Then the War Council: Blue Sea Moon scene ties that directly to the experiments performed on Lysithea and Flayn. At no point however do they explicitly say Rhea was experimented on like they were. It's a good guess, but it's not corroborated by anything in the text. Furthermore I forgot the Rhea coming with you and getting nuked in Shambala is also an event that happens in Verdant Wind, so her transforming in one route but not another is just another route split plot contrivance to throw on the table. The Remire Village just a subplot with no payoff.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Zapp Branniglenn

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

21 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

haven't payed attention to anything story related since 2019 but wasn't Rhea's berserker episode caused by the Empire? Some line about how they've been experimenting on her for the last five years in the scene where you rescue her. And the only experiments we're aware of them doing to people are the kind they did on the Remire village. Did that subplot of turning people berserk ever come up again elsewhere? I figured that was the setup for SS's finale, they just needed to kidnap Flayn and Rhea to test against their unique physiology. They were unsuccessful with Flayn (maybe because she can't transform at all?), but after five years they got something with Rhea. Putting her in a situation where she must transform might have also been the catalyst to activate the drug. That would answer the question of "If Rhea can turn into a dragon, why didn't she break herself out?" She must have known what would happen if she transformed, and the nuke scene was a genuine attempt at self-sacrifice.

Wasn't Edelgard holding Rhea in Enbarr specifically so the Slitherers couldn't get to her? If TWSITD had access to Rhea, they probably would have killed her. Since that's basically their foremost goal. It's possible that non-TWSITD scientists of the Empire experimented on her (and likely that her power to transform was held in check by them), but blood rituals don't seem much like Edelgard's style. Also, the script from chapter 19 of Silver Snow doesn't appear to mention any experimentation. Unless it came up somewhere else?

Also, is it ever confirmed that Flayn can't transform? Or were you suggesting as much speculatively?

5 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

The Remire Village just a subplot with no payoff.

That's like 80% of White Clouds, TBH.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Wasn't Edelgard holding Rhea in Enbarr specifically so the Slitherers couldn't get to her? If TWSITD had access to Rhea, they probably would have killed her. Since that's basically their foremost goal. It's possible that non-TWSITD scientists of the Empire experimented on her (and likely that her power to transform was held in check by them), but blood rituals don't seem much like Edelgard's style. 

If there is a scene explaining why Rhea is in Enbarr at all, I cannot find it. The only person in the Empire that we know, canonically, was aware of Rhea's imprisonment is Hubert, since he details her secret location in his note. Hubert and Edelgard's support proves that he keeps dark secrets from her to avoid upsetting her, but that doesn't prove that he kept this particular secret. If Edelgard did know, then I struggle to think of a reason why she would protect her. In the Disquiet event of Crimson Flower, Hubert tells us Edelgard does plan to fight TWSITD some day, but only out of a personal vendetta for what they did to her and her family. Hubert even spells out that the reason they're working together is purely the destruction of the Church and 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. They're still working together up until the credits roll. Furthermore she has a win at any cost attitude, which inevitably leads to 'the ends justify the means'. We see her running assassination plots and stealing Nabatean remains as her Flame Emperor persona, I doubt she's broken up about the idea of her allies doing blood experiments on prisoners.

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Also, is it ever confirmed that Flayn can't transform? Or were you suggesting as much speculatively?

In the Silver Snow event The Price of Victory is where Seteth confirms he cannot, but all children of the goddess possessed that power at one point. However, Seteth expresses surprise that Rhea still has that ability in the present, so I think he'd be just as surprised at the notion that Flayn still can. Whether she does or doesn't have that power, there are plenty of reasons why she would choose not to. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Zapp Branniglenn

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

If there is a scene explaining why Rhea is in Enbarr at all, I cannot find it. The only person in the Empire that we know, canonically, was aware of Rhea's imprisonment is Hubert, since he details her secret location in his note. Hubert and Edelgard's support proves that he keeps dark secrets from her to avoid upsetting her, but that doesn't prove that he kept this particular secret. If Edelgard did know, then I struggle to think of a reason why she would protect her. In the Disquiet event of Crimson Flower, Hubert tells us Edelgard does plan to fight TWSITD some day, but only out of a personal vendetta for what they did to her and her family. Hubert even spells out that the reason they're working together is purely the destruction of the Church and 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. They're still working together up until the credits roll. Furthermore she has a win at any cost attitude, which inevitably leads to 'the ends justify the means'. We see her running assassination plots and stealing Nabatean remains as her Flame Emperor persona, I doubt she's broken up about the idea of her allies doing blood experiments on prisoners.

The thing is, if TWSITD kill Rhea, then they have no real use for Edelgard anymore. If Edelgard herself kills Rhea, then TWSITD again has no use for her. They can just kill her, letting Arundel (Thales) take over as "Regent". Or else use their Slitherer powers to take Edelgard's place in the public eye. Having Rhea, and keeping her someplace secret, is a powerful card in Edelgard's hand, as it ensures that the Slitherers won't betray her.

Is it possible that Edelgard is unaware of where Rhea is being kept? I mean... I guess so? It's not strictly impossible, it just seems unlikely. She doesn't seem to devote any resources toward "searching for Rhea". And for Hubert to keep her alive (i.e. fed and protected) on his own seems not super practical. My guess is - Edelgard is the one responsible for keeping Rhea imprisoned. The Slitherers know this, but don't know her precise location, and keep working with Edelgard on the guarantee that she will hand Rhea over eventually (say, once Fodlan is unified). That's the only arrangement that makes much sense to me.

1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

In the Silver Snow event The Price of Victory is where Seteth confirms he cannot, but all children of the goddess possessed that power at one point. However, Seteth expresses surprise that Rhea still has that ability in the present, so I think he'd be just as surprised at the notion that Flayn still can. Whether she does or doesn't have that power, there are plenty of reasons why she would choose not to. 

Huh, okay. But maybe since Flayn is younger than the rest (both starting younger, and having "slept" for a long time), she hasn't yet lost the ability to transform. Either way is speculative. 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

13 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The thing is, if TWSITD kill Rhea, then they have no real use for Edelgard anymore. If Edelgard herself kills Rhea, then TWSITD again has no use for her. They can just kill her, letting Arundel (Thales) take over as "Regent". Or else use their Slitherer powers to take Edelgard's place in the public eye. Having Rhea, and keeping her someplace secret, is a powerful card in Edelgard's hand, as it ensures that the Slitherers won't betray her.

I guess that makes some sense. Though I wonder how this bargaining chip would play out. "You can't nuke enbarr because we're holding Rhea prisoner. In Enbarr." To the Slitherers it's an out and out betrayal that goes well beyond them "accidentally" killing Cornelia (which is the furthest we ever see her go against them in one of the routes, and the Slitherers retaliated by using nukes). I'd say the reason why TWSITD isn't so keen on killing Edelgard is that she's been loyal for so long, and they have few true allies on the surface. Slitherers are powerful, but they're lacking numbers. They can kill and replace as many world leaders as they'd like, but they don't have the numbers to do that to all the lower nobles, and certainly not the peasants. Their long game has to involve subjugating the rest of Fodlan, and they can best do that from the Empire's err...empire. 

[drattakbowser]

Have checked in Chapter 21 (Final Battle). They have a unused elements.

We need to seize 3 location (Left, Center and Right) instead of 1 (Center) to stop White Beast Reinforcement. 

[kratoscar2008]

I dont like Claude so SS is probably the best route after CF and AM.

Plus I was able to do my harem run thanks to no Lord that I have to keep alive so to me it was worth it.

Plus I like how it's basically a big family fighting to get a family member back.

[PostZordem]

4 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:

I dont like Claude so SS is probably the best route after CF and AM.

Plus I was able to do my harem run thanks to no Lord that I have to keep alive so to me it was worth it.

Plus I like how it's basically a big family fighting to get a family member back.

Firstly, holy crap that's the biggest harem I've ever seen (you know, you probably could've kept the harem alive in CF because Edelgard's the only female lord of the three, and I don't think the game requires you to keep Hubert alive unless I'm mistaken). What the happened to all the lads (Did they try to get in the way of Byleth's harem, and paid the consequences for it)?

Secondly, what don't you like about my man, Claude? I get that he's not as important to the overall story of Three Houses compared to Edelgard and Dimitri, but I still like his personal story and his character. 

Lastly, I'm pretty sure the "fighting to get the fam back" thing was also done in Azure Moon and Verdant Wind. It only doesn't occur in Crimson Flower because Rhea never gets captured by the Empire in that route.

[kratoscar2008]

3 hours ago, CyberZord said:

Firstly, holy crap that's the biggest harem I've ever seen (you know, you probably could've kept the harem alive in CF because Edelgard's the only female lord of the three, and I don't think the game requires you to keep Hubert alive unless I'm mistaken). What the happened to all the lads (Did they try to get in the way of Byleth's harem, and paid the consequences for it)?

Secondly, what don't you like about my man, Claude? I get that he's not as important to the overall story of Three Houses compared to Edelgard and Dimitri, but I still like his personal story and his character. 

Lastly, I'm pretty sure the "fighting to get the fam back" thing was also done in Azure Moon and Verdant Wind. It only doesn't occur in Crimson Flower because Rhea never gets captured by the Empire in that route.

Well Edelgard locks you out of Hilda, Catherine, Flayn and Rhea. Plus her chapter having back to back chapters like AM makes it hard to farm S supports. Send every dude to their deaths before the TS. Even recruited a few for their relics (Surprisingly Lorenz survives the game even if he dies pre skip just because he gets name dropped once by Seteth). They did nothing wrong but after hearing about Caspar and Hilda's support I decided to avoid getting cucked.

I dunno. I never got why so many people fawn over him, mostly seems to be because he is brown, good looking and for a while thought to be gay. But really dont like his personality much, it's kinda boring.  Also I dislike how he basically gets scott free off the game, meanwhile Dimitri and Edelgard die in other routes and the only time he dies the devs had to go out of their way and say its non canon. Like sure I know people are disappointed that his route was copy pasted but to me Claude looks like the devs favorite and that favoritism extents to his treatment (He'll even his aim is morally right so anyone getting in his way is objectively in the wrong).

Sure you look out for Rhea but in AM is basically secondary to Dimitri's aim and isn't really mentioned much and in Claude's it's only so Claude can sate his curiosity and further his goal.

Only in SS the main aim is Rhea herself and how much Flayn and Seteth are at the forefront.

Maybe hate is an strong word but his route is really the only one I don't see replaying.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

18 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:

I dont like Claude so SS is probably the best route after CF and AM.

Plus I was able to do my harem run thanks to no Lord that I have to keep alive so to me it was worth it.

Plus I like how it's basically a big family fighting to get a family member back.

No-Linhardt-or-Yuri/10, shit-tier Harem for male Teach.

On 5/20/2022 at 12:49 AM, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I guess that makes some sense. Though I wonder how this bargaining chip would play out. "You can't nuke enbarr because we're holding Rhea prisoner. In Enbarr." To the Slitherers it's an out and out betrayal that goes well beyond them "accidentally" killing Cornelia (which is the furthest we ever see her go against them in one of the routes, and the Slitherers retaliated by using nukes). I'd say the reason why TWSITD isn't so keen on killing Edelgard is that she's been loyal for so long, and they have few true allies on the surface. Slitherers are powerful, but they're lacking numbers. They can kill and replace as many world leaders as they'd like, but they don't have the numbers to do that to all the lower nobles, and certainly not the peasants. Their long game has to involve subjugating the rest of Fodlan, and they can best do that from the Empire's err...empire. 

True, they want someone controlling the Imperial throne. Arundel could do that, as Regent, were Edelgard killed off. But he doesn't have the same charisma, and the public may wish for a new Emperor proper. Alternatively, they could have one of their own take Edelgard's place, as a skin-puppet. Unless there's something about Edelgard (her Crests?) which would prevent this from working. And perhaps Thales fears that whoever took Edelgard's place would have their own ambitions.

My guess is, Edelgard wouldn't be so transparent towards her Slithering allies. Likely, she'd just maintain a line of "I have removed Rhea from the equation", or "I have made sure that Rhea will pose us no threat". She's not confirming that Rhea is alive (much less in Embarr), but might let enough information "leak" that TWSITD are aware of her survival. So the Slithers need more information from Edelgard, but they can't kidnap/torture her while she's in such a forward-facing position.

Plus, even if they knew Rhea was alive and in Enbarr, I don't think they'd nuke the city. They'd have to at least consider the possibility that a) Rhea survives such an attack, and b) the attack breaks her prison cell, to a degree that would enable her escape. If they needed her urgently, a "surgical strike" toward where she's held in Enbarr would make more sense. But if they don't have confidence in such a maneuver, then at least knowing where she is is preferable to risking her escape.

[kratoscar2008]

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

No-Linhardt-or-Yuri/10, shit-tier Harem for male Teach.

They are Bi so they are a threat to my harem.

Yuri is the only one I would S support as Male Byleth, just ignore the voice and he is a girl.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

On 5/20/2022 at 6:25 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Is it possible that Edelgard is unaware of where Rhea is being kept? I mean... I guess so? It's not strictly impossible, it just seems unlikely. She doesn't seem to devote any resources toward "searching for Rhea". And for Hubert to keep her alive (i.e. fed and protected) on his own seems not super practical. My guess is - Edelgard is the one responsible for keeping Rhea imprisoned. The Slitherers know this, but don't know her precise location, and keep working with Edelgard on the guarantee that she will hand Rhea over eventually (say, once Fodlan is unified). That's the only arrangement that makes much sense to me.

Or Hubert keeps Rhea in his basement, knowing the Slitherers would off Edelgard the moment Rheas head is on a stake and messing with them is his biggest hobby, whilst also going behind Edelgards back, which methinks I read he isn´t averse to, but at the same time she can´t force Huberts hand since he is her right hand man.

>insert 3 people pointing guns at each other meme<

[Dark Holy Elf]

9 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:

They are Bi so they are a threat to my harem.

By that logic, so are the bi women, of whom there are several. I'm rootin' for ya, Dorothea and Petra.

 

[kratoscar2008]

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

By that logic, so are the bi women, of whom there are several. I'm rootin' for ya, Dorothea and Petra.

 

About that...