What are your thoughts on Nemesis?

[NEMESIS/GSS #1 SIMP]

What do you guys think about the main antagonist of the game, Nemesis?

[drattakbowser]

Seriously, why he is "LEVEL 60" and have high stats ? I don't understand the development. Same as Death Knight and the sniper Level 50 in Chapter 18 in Azure Moon.

[PostZordem]

"Main Antagonist" isn't exactly what I'd consider him as. Since outside of Verdant Wind's final chapter and the very opening cutscene of the game, Nemesis doesn't really show up at all. He's never seen in Silver Snow, Crimson Flower, or Azure Moon, which is a bit of a shame since both he and Byleth bare the Crest of Flames, which was rather interesting. I kind of wish that he would've shown up more in the game, but what can you do. Maybe he'll show up in Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes. That would be awesome.

Now as a final boss, I simply think he's a badass enemy for Byleth, Claude, and the rest of the Golden Deer to face in the final battle of the Golden Deer/Verdant Wind route (even if there isn't as much emotional attachment compared to the other final bosses in the other routes). Facing Nemesis on the same battlefield that Rhea fought him on all those years ago was just awesome. The best part is that you face Nemesis last after taking down all the other enemies that stand between you and him. He's no pushover, either. You genuinely have to form a strategy in order to take him down, since he can easily crush your weaker units and give your stronger units a good run for their money. Nemesis' boss fight is so good that the battle also has its own unique music in the form of: "God-Shattering Star". With an amazing boss fight, a truly God-Shattering OST of a song to accompany the battle, and the strategies you have to form as you slowly work your way to Nemesis, his final boss fight in Verdant Wind is easily my favorite in the entire game. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by CyberZord

[NEMESIS/GSS #1 SIMP]

6 hours ago, CyberZord said:

 

Now as a final boss, I simply think he's a badass enemy for Byleth, Claude, and the rest of the Golden Deer to face in the final battle of the Golden Deer/Verdant Wind route (even if there isn't as much emotional attachment compared to the other final bosses in the other routes). Facing Nemesis on the same battlefield that Rhea fought him on all those years ago was just awesome. The best part is that you face Nemesis last after taking down all the other enemies that stand between you and him. He's no pushover, either. You genuinely have to form a strategy in order to take him down, since he can easily crush your weaker units and give your stronger units a good run for their money. Nemesis' boss fight is so good that the battle also has its own unique music in the form of: "God-Shattering Star". With an amazing boss fight, a truly God-Shattering OST of a song to accompany the battle, and the strategies you have to form as you slowly work your way to Nemesis, his final boss fight in Verdant Wind is easily my favorite in the entire game. 

Lol I just got done explaining to someone why silver snow is worse because it doesn't have Nemesis, and I made some of the same points you showed here. I very much agree, he is my favorite character. Also, I consider him the main antagonist because without him none of the game's events would've occured, and he's the first character to be shown, right along Rhea. Plus, he's kinda like Byleth's evil counterpart, since he wields a dark sword of the creator and is one of the only people to bear the crest of flames besides Byleth.

Edited May 9, 2022 by NEMESIS/GSS #1 SIMP

[Dark Holy Elf]

7 hours ago, CyberZord said:

hich is a bit of a shame since both he and Byleth both bare the Crest of Flames, which is pretty important considering that Byleth's basically Nemesis' descendant

I don't think I'd put it that way. You can probably draw some parallels between both present-day Crest of Flames wielders and Nemesis, but they're not related in any sort of ancestral way. They just all received similar transfusions (see also: Wilhelm and Jeralt).

7 hours ago, CyberZord said:

Facing Nemesis on the same battlefield that Rhea fought him on all those years ago was just awesome.

It's not the same battlefield. The same-battlefield rematch of that fight is Rhea vs. Byleth and Edelgard in CF (which incidentally is my favourite fight in the game, but there are several good choices).

[PostZordem]

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I don't think I'd put it that way. You can probably draw some parallels between both present-day Crest of Flames wielders and Nemesis, but they're not related in any sort of ancestral way. They just all received similar transfusions (see also: Wilhelm and Jeralt).

It's not the same battlefield. The same-battlefield rematch of that fight is Rhea vs. Byleth and Edelgard in CF (which incidentally is my favourite fight in the game, but there are several good choices).

Yeah, that's probably a better way of putting it. I've edited my previous reply above to remove my wild theory out. 

Well... either way there's a semblance of a rematch from Rhea vs Nemesis seen at the beginning of the game for both Verdant Wind and Crimson Flower. Though I love the irony in that Byleth's kind of acting like Nemesis throughout Crimson Flower and unlike Corrin, they have no regrets over their decision to side with the "bad guys". (a great decision on Nintendo/Intelligent System's part). 

As for each route's final boss fight: Nemesis in Verdant Wind is my favorite due to the reasons I mentioned above.

Rhea in Crimson Flower is currently my second favorite final boss fight because: 1. Taking down the Immaculate One in this route is far more satisfying and arguably better than in Silver Snow. 2. Going directly against the Church and by extent, both The Holy Kingdom of Faerghus and The Leicester Alliance was a unique change of pace from the other 3 routes. 3. Fighting Rhea while the capital is burning serves for a pretty cool battlefield. 

Now as for the Silver Snow version of the Immaculate One boss fight, despite not playing through Silver Snow, I can deduce that this version of the fight isn't as great as in CF because: 1. The reason Rhea turns into a dragon in SS makes much less sense than in CF. 2. The battlefield is reused from Part 1: White Clouds where the Empire invades the Monastery. 

Now for Azure Moon, I haven't beaten the route yet, but I'm getting there. It's nice to see that Edelgard gets to be a final boss in at least one of these routes instead of being completely disregarded earlier on (and it makes the most sense to do it with Dimitri given their relationship). Just by looking at Hegemon Husk Edelgard, she looks pretty damn intimidating and a little creepy if I got to be honest. I'll have to rank the boss fight once I finish Azure Moon. Oddly enough, Azure Moon's final boss fight is the one I hear the least about, and I'm not sure if it's because the boss fight is good enough to where people can come to a consensus that the fight is great and doesn't need much discussion, or if it's just decent compared to the other final boss fights in the other routes. Either that, or I'm not looking in the right places when it comes to these kinds of discussions. 

Outside of Silver Snow's final boss fight, Three Houses has a great selection of fights that occur throughout the game (one of my favorites is the second battle at Gronder Field in Part 2 of Azure Moon and Verdant Wind, where the chapter is aptly titled: Blood of the Eagle and Lion). Though my personal favorite will always be Byleth and the Golden Deer's battle against Nemesis in Verdant Wind's final chapter. 

[drattakbowser]

40 minutes ago, CyberZord said:

Yeah, that's probably a better way of putting it. I've edited my previous reply above to remove my wild theory out. 

Well... either way there's a semblance of a rematch from Rhea vs Nemesis seen at the beginning of the game for both Verdant Wind and Crimson Flower. Though I love the irony in that Byleth's kind of acting like Nemesis throughout Crimson Flower and unlike Corrin, they have no regrets over their decision to side with the "bad guys". (a great decision on Nintendo/Intelligent System's part). 

As for each route's final boss fight: Nemesis in Verdant Wind is my favorite due to the reasons I mentioned above.

Rhea in Crimson Flower is currently my second favorite final boss fight because: 1. Taking down the Immaculate One in this route is far more satisfying and arguably better than in Silver Snow. 2. Going directly against the Church and by extent, both The Holy Kingdom of Faerghus and The Leicester Alliance was a unique change of pace from the other 3 routes. 3. Fighting Rhea while the capital is burning serves for a pretty cool battlefield. 

Now as for the Silver Snow version of the Immaculate One boss fight, despite not playing through Silver Snow, I can deduce that this version of the fight isn't as great as in CF because: 1. The reason Rhea turns into a dragon in SS makes much less sense than in CF. 2. The battlefield is reused from Part 1: White Clouds where the Empire invades the Monastery. 

Now for Azure Moon, I haven't beaten the route yet, but I'm getting there. It's nice to see that Edelgard gets to be a final boss in at least one of these routes instead of being completely disregarded earlier on (and it makes the most sense to do it with Dimitri given their relationship). Just by looking at Hegemon Husk Edelgard, she looks pretty damn intimidating and a little creepy if I got to be honest. I'll have to rank the boss fight once I finish Azure Moon. Oddly enough, Azure Moon's final boss fight is the one I hear the least about, and I'm not sure if it's because the boss fight is good enough to where people can come to a consensus that the fight is great and doesn't need much discussion, or if it's just decent compared to the other final boss fights in the other routes. Either that, or I'm not looking in the right places when it comes to these kinds of discussions. 

Outside of Silver Snow's final boss fight, Three Houses has a great selection of fights that occur throughout the game (one of my favorites is the second battle at Gronder Field in Part 2 of Azure Moon and Verdant Wind, where the chapter is aptly titled: Blood of the Eagle and Lion). Though my personal favorite will always be Byleth and the Golden Deer's battle against Nemesis in Verdant Wind's final chapter. 

Blood of the Eagle and Lion.

My nightmare chapter.

5 unrecruited students killed. (Bernadetta (Both), Leonie (Azure Moon), Raphael (Azure Moon), Ignatz (Azure Moon), Lysithea (Azure Moon), Sylvain (Verdant Wind), Ingrid (Verdant Wind), Felix (Verdant Wind), Mercedes (Verdant Wind).

No special dialogue students except Byleth vs Raphael in Azure Moon.

What a Disgrace.

[drattakbowser]

One more about Blood of the Eagles and Lion :

- Ferdinand, Linhardt, Caspar and Dorothea are here in Azure Moon/Verdant Wind ? No.

- Lorenz and Marianne are here in Azure Moon ? No.

- Ashe and Annette are here in Verdant Wind ? No.

Battle of the Eagles and Lion (Chapter 7) yes this map is my favourite 

HOWEVER Blood of the Eagles and Lion (Chapter 17) is not my favourite because Ferdinand, Linhardt, Caspar, Dorothea, Ashe, Annette, Lorenz and Marianne are not here so I think they are coward or something.

[PostZordem]

21 minutes ago, drattakbowser said:

Blood of the Eagle and Lion.

My nightmare chapter.

5 unrecruited students killed. (Bernadetta (Both), Leonie (Azure Moon), Raphael (Azure Moon), Ignatz (Azure Moon), Lysithea (Azure Moon), Sylvain (Verdant Wind), Ingrid (Verdant Wind), Felix (Verdant Wind), Mercedes (Verdant Wind).

No special dialogue students except Byleth vs Raphael in Azure Moon.

What a Disgrace.

Hey, now. Don't riff on me just because I like Blood of the Eagle and Lion and you don't. You know you can easily prevent the unrecruited students from dying in the chapter by recruiting them beforehand, which is especially easy to do on NG+ runs. So it's ultimately up to you to decide who you save and who you kill (you should very well know that already since the game makes you choose which house to pick, which will give you the initial group of students that the game won't force you to kill). 

Plus, regarding special dialogue between students within Azure Moon in particular, Dimitri and Claude share some special dialogue in Azure Moon if they face each other in battle (granted, it's the exact same dialogue as Verdant Wind but with a different outcome). Same goes for Dimitri and Edelgard in Azure Moon during Blood of the Eagle and Lion. Also a unique piece of dialogue between former students (and it's completely unique to boot, as the conversation never appears in Verdant Wind's version of Blood of the Eagle and Lion). Heck, Bernadetta has special dialogue with Byleth during the chapter as well. There's probably even more that I can't think of right off the top of my head, but basically, Azure Moon has a good share of unique dialogue too. It's not restricted to Verdant Wind.

12 minutes ago, drattakbowser said:

One more about Blood of the Eagles and Lion :

- Ferdinand, Linhardt, Caspar and Dorothea are here in Azure Moon/Verdant Wind ? No.

- Lorenz and Marianne are here in Azure Moon ? No.

- Ashe and Annette are here in Verdant Wind ? No.

Battle of the Eagles and Lion (Chapter 7) yes this map is my favourite 

HOWEVER Blood of the Eagles and Lion (Chapter 17) is not my favourite because Ferdinand, Linhardt, Caspar, Dorothea, Ashe, Annette, Lorenz and Marianne are not here so I think they are coward or something.

Any of the former students who aren't present during the "Blood of the Eagle and Lion" aren't cowards at all (have you seen Caspar? C'mon, he's the last guy who should be called a coward). Ferdinand, Linhardt, Caspar, and Dorothea couldn't partake in the battle because they were literally somewhere else while the battle was taking place, so they couldn't partake in the battle even if they wanted to. The same goes for Ashe and Lorenz, but with them, you can re-recruit them if you got them to join you in Part 1 of Golden Deer and Blue Lions respectively. As for Annette, while it's not directly stated in Verdant Wind, I'm pretty sure she was at the Holy Kingdom of Faerghus at the time, most likely so she could protect the capital in case anyone invaded (like in the final chapter of Crimson Flower), or because Gilbert wanted her to be safe and far away from a battlefield where she'd definitely die. Now for Marianne... Let's just say that she never appears in Part 2 unless you recruit her (or chose Golden Deer) for a very good reason.

As for Battle of the Eagle and Lion, yeah, I also think its a good map. Can't say its one of my favorites, but I liked having a proper battle between the different houses.

Allow me to explain just why I think Blood of the Eagle and Lion is better than Battle of the Eagle and Lion: 1. Blood of the Eagle and Lion twists the whole idea of the Battle of the Eagle and Lion by making the students kill each other instead of having a mock battle where no real harm can be done. In Blood of the Eagle and Lion, it's far more interesting to put it simply. 2. The game makes you feel both nostalgic and bad during the battle. Nostalgic because it's just like the Battle of the Eagle and Lion but with a lot more bloodshed, and bad because you'll probably regret not recruiting the students who'll be battling against you (especially true if its your first run in Three Houses). 3. Between Heaven and Earth is a fantastic track which plays during this battle. It really fits the mood for the second, far more serious fight that takes place at Gronder field. 

Look, Byleth isn't able to save every single student from every house. Some of them will just have to die, and that's the price of war, which is something I rather enjoy about Three Houses. No matter which route you choose, there is no "golden" or "canon" route where everyone just bands together (*cough* Fates: Revelation *cough*) to defeat Those Who Slither In The Dark and they just live happily ever after. No, Three Houses is a far more serious game where you actions WILL have consequences, and you'll just have to live with your choices whether you like it or not. That's probably the biggest thing I like about Blood of the Eagle and Lion: The battle serves as a heavy reminder that Part 2 isn't going be like the academy days where the students simply took part in battles and had a bit of fun, too. It's a nice reality check that truly lets you know how serious this 5 year war is, and that it must be put to a stop sooner rather than later. 

[drattakbowser]

1 hour ago, CyberZord said:

Hey, now. Don't riff on me just because I like Blood of the Eagle and Lion and you don't. You know you can easily prevent the unrecruited students from dying in the chapter by recruiting them beforehand, which is especially easy to do on NG+ runs. So it's ultimately up to you to decide who you save and who you kill (you should very well know that already since the game makes you choose which house to pick, which will give you the initial group of students that the game won't force you to kill). 

Plus, regarding special dialogue between students within Azure Moon in particular, Dimitri and Claude share some special dialogue in Azure Moon if they face each other in battle (granted, it's the exact same dialogue as Verdant Wind but with a different outcome). Same goes for Dimitri and Edelgard in Azure Moon during Blood of the Eagle and Lion. Also a unique piece of dialogue between former students (and it's completely unique to boot, as the conversation never appears in Verdant Wind's version of Blood of the Eagle and Lion). Heck, Bernadetta has special dialogue with Byleth during the chapter as well. There's probably even more that I can't think of right off the top of my head, but basically, Azure Moon has a good share of unique dialogue too. It's not restricted to Verdant Wind.

Any of the former students who aren't present during the "Blood of the Eagle and Lion" aren't cowards at all (have you seen Caspar? C'mon, he's the last guy who should be called a coward). Ferdinand, Linhardt, Caspar, and Dorothea couldn't partake in the battle because they were literally somewhere else while the battle was taking place, so they couldn't partake in the battle even if they wanted to. The same goes for Ashe and Lorenz, but with them, you can re-recruit them if you got them to join you in Part 1 of Golden Deer and Blue Lions respectively. As for Annette, while it's not directly stated in Verdant Wind, I'm pretty sure she was at the Holy Kingdom of Faerghus at the time, most likely so she could protect the capital in case anyone invaded (like in the final chapter of Crimson Flower), or because Gilbert wanted her to be safe and far away from a battlefield where she'd definitely die. Now for Marianne... Let's just say that she never appears in Part 2 unless you recruit her (or chose Golden Deer) for a very good reason.

As for Battle of the Eagle and Lion, yeah, I also think its a good map. Can't say its one of my favorites, but I liked having a proper battle between the different houses.

Allow me to explain just why I think Blood of the Eagle and Lion is better than Battle of the Eagle and Lion: 1. Blood of the Eagle and Lion twists the whole idea of the Battle of the Eagle and Lion by making the students kill each other instead of having a mock battle where no real harm can be done. In Blood of the Eagle and Lion, it's far more interesting to put it simply. 2. The game makes you feel both nostalgic and bad during the battle. Nostalgic because it's just like the Battle of the Eagle and Lion but with a lot more bloodshed, and bad because you'll probably regret not recruiting the students who'll be battling against you (especially true if its your first run in Three Houses). 3. Between Heaven and Earth is a fantastic track which plays during this battle. It really fits the mood for the second, far more serious fight that takes place at Gronder field. 

Look, Byleth isn't able to save every single student from every house. Some of them will just have to die, and that's the price of war, which is something I rather enjoy about Three Houses. No matter which route you choose, there is no "golden" or "canon" route where everyone just bands together (*cough* Fates: Revelation *cough*) to defeat Those Who Slither In The Dark and they just live happily ever after. No, Three Houses is a far more serious game where you actions WILL have consequences, and you'll just have to live with your choices whether you like it or not. That's probably the biggest thing I like about Blood of the Eagle and Lion: The battle serves as a heavy reminder that Part 2 isn't going be like the academy days where the students simply took part in battles and had a bit of fun, too. It's a nice reality check that truly lets you know how serious this 5 year war is, and that it must be put to a stop sooner rather than later. 

I understand. But I am different.

I like fight against least amount of former students.

Spoiler

If you are the kind of player that does not find satisfaction in killing your former monastery students, then the Silver Snow route is perfect. Out of all four routes, the Monastery Route gives players the opportunity to avoid wallowing in despair after killing former friends, colleagues, and students in battle. Since most of the church faculty and Black Eagles students will remain by Byleth’s side after Edelgard’s betrayal, this leaves only a handful of former students to fight against and most can be actually recruited if defeated by Byleth in battle.

 

Source : https://www-thegamer-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.thegamer.com/fire-emblem-three-houses-black-eagles-monastery-best/amp/?usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D&amp_js_v=a9&amp_gsa=1#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&csi=0&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegamer.com%2Ffire-emblem-three-houses-black-eagles-monastery-best%2F

That all for me.

Edited May 9, 2022 by drattakbowser

[NEMESIS/GSS #1 SIMP]

Turned from a Nemesis discussion to a discussion about the blood of the eagle and lion.

[Bylift]

On 5/7/2022 at 2:24 PM, NEMESIS/GSS #1 SIMP said:

What do you guys think about the main antagonist of the game, Nemesis?

Does he remember the Red Canyon? I need an answer.

[whase]

I'm a little sad that Nemesis was never a bigger player in the story. Actualy getting to relive that part of history with the Golden Deer is what makes that my favorite path. It leads to one of my favorite lines in FE to date; 

Quote

"Yet we have the strength to scale the walls between us, to reach out our hands in friendship so we can open our true hearts to one another."

It's cheesy, but I love it.

[Azz]

I wish he played a big role in the story tbh. Hoping to see more of him in Three Hopes possibly. I wish he was in Silver Snow and we got to play as Rhea as Seiros one final time which I feel like that as a pre final battle and then Rhea snapping and transforming into the crazed Immaculate One would've made more sense but c'est la vie.

As a battle, he was super cool. Certainly the least emotional of the four (five if you count Cindered Shadows) final battles however imo the most epic with how it allows you to one turn and risk it all and go for Nemesis or actually going around the map and killing each of the elites one by one. The final cutscene between Byleth and Claude vs Nemesis is also my favourite. Overall, great fight (also how can we not mention God Shattering Star).

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Seconding @CyberZord. Nemesis isn't the main antagonist, because he doesn't have agency in setting up the conflict and opposing the player. The "main antagonist" of 3H is variable. On White Clouds, it's either Thales or the Flame Emperor. Same with SS/VW/AM, but now the Flame Emperor is unmasked. As for CF, it's Rhea.

That said, Nemesis makes for a really fun final boss battle.

[NEMESIS/GSS #1 SIMP]

Disagree