New Heroes (Beyond Control)

[IGdood]

 

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I kinda expected Ninian and Rhea, I'm not upset at either of them being here. Muarim, though, is a surprise. I just hope this doesn't dash his chances of showing up in his regular base form in a future New Heroes banner. Gustav and Lilith are the two I'm pretty "meh" about here.

[Sunwoo]

Muarim definitely deserved to be in, although I'd really like his base version to be in eventually. Pleeeeease tell me we're not going to let Muarim and Vika only have their non-base versions in the game when all the Fates beasts got their normal version and a seasonal. Also IS you have no more excuses to avoid Tormod anymore, put him in Heroes already

As for the banner itself ... Fallen Gustav and three dragon ladies ... eh. Ninian would be nice to have since I don't dislike her, and Fallen Gustav would be great. But ... I'm just not feeling the Fallen banners. I don't know what I'll do on this.

[Morgan--Grandmaster]

4 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I kinda expected Ninian and Rhea, I'm not upset at either of them being here. Muarim, though, is a surprise. I just hope this doesn't dash his chances of showing up in his regular base form in a future New Heroes banner.

I doubt it will. This kind of thing happens all the time.

[Florete]

The Immaculate One looks like they wanted to make a really strong unit again, but didn't want the kind of backlash Hegemon Husk got.

Cool set of characters, though. I was hoping to see Scarlet, but thankfully we didn't get Kana. A few months ago I recall someone on Reddit insisting fallen Ninian wouldn't happen so yeah...

[Ice Dragon]

Ninian~ Yay! Dragons~ Yay! Gustav~ Yay!

I am happy; my wallet is not.

My only disappointment is that Gustav doesn't have his Exsanguinator title. "Exsanguinator" is such a good word.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

2 minutes ago, Morgan--Grandmaster said:

I doubt it will. This kind of thing happens all the time.

*Stares at Charlotte who took literal years to get her base form into the game, Hardin who does not have his non-corrupted form in yet, and Brigid, Wolt, Saul, Zelot, Juno, Geese, Dozla, Rolf, and others who have seasonals/special forms but don't have base forms yet*

I remain somewhat skeptical and worried for Muarim's chances, unfortunately.

[Alexmender]

So F!Edelgard 2 is going to be Rhea, huh? Although that "First combat" condition has always seemed iffy to me. 

Anyways, let's go in order: 

F!Lilith has a stat spread of: 39/40/43/29/33. Nothing crazy on the stat department. Just like normal Lilith, her fallen counterpart is all about Ally Support so she'll be useless for the AI. The unconditional part of her Prf is +5 to all stats if she's healthy and +3 spd. If close to her support partner she gets the super teleportation (what should this be called, Aerobatics+ ?) and grants said partner and herself NFU. Spd Smoke 4 looks pretty crazy, although I have doubts that this skill will be as free as Spd Smoke 3 because that'd mean giving Dodge to almost everything. If I'm wrong, then this skill is going to be absurdly scary in AR-D. 

F!Ninian has a stat spread of 50/29/42/25/38. Full on support spread, she can run Hp or Res based debuff skills which is good for a dancer. Her Prf is Atk/Res Ruse if she dances and +6 Spd/Res during combat. Her exclusive dance gives something akin to a Breath skill on the unit she targets, although I'm not sure if it's of the kind that only triggers per unit's attack or also if they're hit. Also +1 Mov for dragons. 

You can't see F!Gustav's stats, but they're probably a beefed up version of his NPC version that we fought on book III, which means high Atk/Def, above average Res and horrid Spd. His Prf is a debuff on Atk/Spd/Def, Special Fighter and a guaranteed follow-up. Atk Smoke 4 has an impact-like effect, but just like with Spd Smoke it triggers after 1 combat, which isn't all that great unless one is running the unit with a lot of dancers. 

And the star of the banner is F!Rhea. Can't see her stats, either but it's obvious she'll follow the same path as H!Rhea by having min-maxed Atk/Def/Res and dumping Spd. Her Prf has the slaying effect, spendthrift effect and Res based true dmg on her first hit (based on the foe's Res, not Rhea's) and Wary Fighter. True Dragon Wall is self-explanatory. It gives a larger dmg reduction % during Rhea's first combat and then it becomes the regular Dragon Wall. As a reference to SS ending, it also gives her healing per turn and after combat if she's paired with a dragon or beast. Rhea shares color with F!Edelgard, so the comparison is unavoidable. F!Edelgard is better for player phase strategies while F!Rhea is better optimized as a Save armor, which means their niches can't be compared, lol. 

I need to see Spd Smoke 4 inheritance restrictions to see if I'll use my tickets on Lilith, otherwise I'll use them on Rhea. Skipping because nothing here caughts my attention and the CYL5 rerun is coming soon (and the Hero Fest refuses to give me B!Eirika. It's pity breaker after pity breaker...). 

[Karuu30]

Both Ninian and Rhea look so tempting. Lilith seems okay I guess and personally not a big fan of Gustav, he seems so spontaneous.

It’s a bit ironic that the normal version of Rhea hasn’t appeared as a legendary or as a new hero yet. Hope we don’t have to wait that long for her.

Also, her voice line really gave me chills. So amazing!

[Tybrosion]

14 minutes ago, Alexmender said:

F!Ninian has a stat spread of 50/29/42/25/38.

It's actually 45/27/40/23/36. She has a tier 4 Duel skill, so that's +5 HP and +2 to everything else that you didn't deduct.

[Alexmender]

6 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

It's actually 45/27/40/23/36. She has a tier 4 Duel skill, so that's +5 HP and +2 to everything else that you didn't deduct.

Oops, you're right. I forgot the Duel skill was there, lol. 

Well, even with the lower stats F!Ninian still has enough Hp and Res to pull off those support builds I mentioned before. 

[LoneStar]

Lilith looks the most interesting out of the batch to me. That teleport is pretty crazy. Still no Res based near trace or even Atk/Spd Near Trace.

The tier 4 smokes having different effects is interesting. I'm guessing the Def and Res variants will grant the user Domination.

Gustav was kind of out of no where. Fafnir seemed like he would fit the Dragon theme going on, but I guess they need to save him as the powercreep colorless Dragon/Beast for next year.

I'm low on orbs, and the Bridals are later this month, so hopefully Muarim is solid unlike a certain someone from last year.

24 minutes ago, Florete said:

The Immaculate One looks like they wanted to make a really strong unit again, but didn't want the kind of backlash Hegemon Husk got.

Speaking of, it looks like they didn't ban her as a random enemy. I guess she isn't so bad since there's no Distant Counter, or Raging Storm.

[Othin]

Finally a non-seasonal Gustav! Hopefully Fafnir follows the same approach in a future Fallen banner, either of his forms would qualify. Which still leaves the question of Freyr.

Planning to spark Gustav, or Rhea if I get him first. Also quite happy about Muarim, hopefully this means Tormod will be later this year.

[Florete]

4 minutes ago, LoneStar said:

Speaking of, it looks like they didn't ban her as a random enemy. I guess she isn't so bad since there's no Distant Counter, or Raging Storm.

We won't know that until the update comes. That's never been stated in banner trailers or news updates.

[Sentinel07]

28 minutes ago, Karuu30 said:

It’s a bit ironic that the normal version of Rhea hasn’t appeared as a legendary or as a new hero yet. Hope we don’t have to wait that long for her.

Also, her voice line really gave me chills. So amazing!

Cherami Leigh is part of why I like Rhea so much. God-tier voice actress.

[LoneStar]

4 minutes ago, Othin said:

Which still leaves the question of Freyr.

If they don't introduce a new OC soon, maybe he could be on the Midpoint banner. It would be pretty random, but we'll see in the next story chapter how that's going.

5 minutes ago, Florete said:

We won't know that until the update comes. That's never been stated in banner trailers or news updates.

Right, I checked the banner notification to double check, but that info comes later.

[Othin]

3 minutes ago, LoneStar said:

If they don't introduce a new OC soon, maybe he could be on the Midpoint banner. It would be pretty random, but we'll see in the next story chapter how that's going.

Right, I checked the banner notification to double check, but that info comes later.

It'd be odd to have a midpoint banner unrelated to the current book. And we do have a good candidate already - Henriette, who would now get to follow her husband.

Alternatively, we could finally get to Veronica or Bruno.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Othin

[FailWood]

Another Final Boss joins the roster in Fallen Rhea, too bad rest of the banner is a bore.  You know they're starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel if they needed to add an OC into the mix.

[Xenomata]

Well... I guess that answers how they'd handle an Ascended Fallen Hero: there isn't one. Also Tier 4 Smoke skills... Hoo, they look like something all right.
My analysis was a little bigger than I intended to make it:

Spoiler

 

~Weird that the version of Lilith from before she cared about friends would... still have an effect that wants a support partner, but then I guess that's just the nature of having a specific "thing" in Heroes. Being able to grant an ally Null Follow-Up if they're her friend is pretty dangerous though. That, in one shot, automatically opens up a number of units B passives to be whatever they want without sacrificing the slot to just being able to keep their follow-up intact. That also means Windsweep and Watersweep's lone restriction doesn't have any effect on them as long as Lilith is around. And then there's Spd Smoke 4.

• The effects of Seal Spd and Spd Smoke 3 are united into one
• The user is given Spd +6
• They are also given the Dodge status

That's... a lot. And it's just a C passive? Goddamn... as for the rest of Lilith, I dunno it's not like there's a ton to say. High Atk/Spd, can teleport near her friend and gets bonuses for being near her friend. It's what regular Lilith did but better because higher stats and a little more room to teleport.

~Ninian...
Atk/Res -7 and Guard are forced onto enemies in cardinal directions of her and her target when she dances, those she dances get Atk +6 and accelerated Special Charge, add on move +1 if they're a Dragon (doesn't say Dragon Cavs are excluded, beware foes of Nifl and Muspell...), and then some supportive passives. Ninian... sure is stacked for a dancer. Would be nice if regular Ninian were allowed to do... any of that.

~For comparison, the original Glitnir:

• Grants Atk +3
• Grants Atk +6 during combat if the foe uses a Melee weapon (sword, lance, axe, dragonstone, beast damage)
• If unit initiates combat against a foe that can counter, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack

Suffice to say Headsman Glitnir is an upgrade. Atk Smoke 4 is just as loaded as Spd Smoke 4, damn... Def/Res +6 and status that prevents foe's follow-up attack...

~Rhea, the Immaculate One... I'm not gonna sweat having to face her, she looks to be somewhat similar to Hegemon, albeit more enemy-phase focused, though being a Dragon does mean Boey can't counter her... regardless, Firesweep+Poison Strike 6+Fatal Smoke should still have the same effect on her. Hell, on the off chance that people don't automatically give her DC she can even just be targeted mercilessly by ranged units like Julia or Micaiah.

~I don't know anything about Muarim, but what I read off a wiki means he'll be a "feral" Laguz. He's a Tiger, so... he'll be an Infantry Beast?

 

So... it goes without saying that all 4 units are, as always with these Fallen banners, completely and utterly stacked. Muarim is in a good spot to be the most recent "worth using Grails on" grail unit. I'm not super-attached to any one unit in particular, maybe I'll target Ninian since she does have a very strong Dance on her side, though it will be weird for Gustav to have once been an important character in the story just to then appear in a Book VI map... totally normal. Gonna be an awkward Forging Bonds, that's for sure... unless they put Muarim in instead.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Xenomata

[GrandeRampel]

Well that's a pretty interesting banner. The only one I expected to be here is Rhea and it's starting to become kind of silly how many layers of alt-hell she is on. Seriously, that's 1-a backpack seasonal version, 2-a normal seasonal version, 3-a younger mythic version and 4-a fallen version all before her base version gets in. The only one in a worse situation is Veronica who has a good chance of getting a banner this year.

Lilith was unexpected but after thinking about it more she is pretty notable for being possessed in a DLC just like the Morgans last year so we should have seen her coming more. Technically every character is possessed in the Fates DLC but they don't have a speaking role and are treated as a prop. Lilith is actually one of the Anankos puppets with some focus, just like Takumi and Garon before her, and there are three others in the same situation: Sumeragi, Mikoto and Gunther. If we add the two Kanas we have 5 potential years of 1 slot of the fallen banner being givem to a Fates unit. We are nowhere near out of options for Fallen.

Ninian should have been obvious in insight since she is one of the last main characters who have something to base a fallen version on, together with Rhea (and both of them are also some of the last possible legendary options for female characters), but I guess Ninian being shafted so hard in this game trained me to expect nothing for her.

Gustav was freaking out of nowhere and I didn't expect him at all. Does this mean dragon-Fafnir and red eyes-Veronica are now likely for future Fallen Heroes banners? That's certainly a way to get around the remaining candidates being "literal whos" for the average player in the future. Just use OCs instead. Still Gustav is kind of in a tricky spot. Technically this is an alt version, and there's a base alive version they could use in the future, BUT this is the version that made an actual appearance as a unit and the base Gustav would be pretty much a recolor so... do we count this as an alt or not?

And finally Muarim surprised me. His fallen version is based on a 30 second long cutscene, which is the same as Celica and Ninian and better than what-if Ike but they are main characters so it makes sense to put them in even if the justification is a huge stretch (see also Dimitri). His inclusion makes other not-main characters with pitiful screentime like Rajaion and Sonya's sisters more likely which is great because I really want them. And it's also great to get Muarim in the game in some way since he isn't likely to be on a New Heroes banner soon. Both Elincia's retainers and the Dawn Brigade shoul get their own banner before Tormod and his gang. Sorry, not sorry.

Anyway a bit disappointed to not see Greil, as well as Medeus' Maidens or one of the Deadlords but there's always next year. 

 

I will definetely pull on this banner and also spark.

[Humanoid]

Wow, Gustav is secretly a dragon then, what a twist!

 

Ahem. While I can't say the Fallen theme has ever been my thing, the fundamental benefit of having four good units on a New Heroes banner instead of the usual two far outweighs that. Granted it's more like four versus two-and-a-half if you weigh Ascended heroes a little extra, but still. I'll throw the 135 orbs in there and take whatever comes out.

Early impressions on each hero:

- Lilith: Can't say no to a flying dragon with extra teleportation ability on top of that. Now if I only remember to field units alongside their support partners...

- Ninian: It's somewhat telling to see new premium dancers needing these juiced up dances to be relevant, and yet I can't decide on how valuable a dancer to exclusively be fielded in a dragon team is given that two Azura variants do that regardless. Especially since she's sandbagged by a silly Duel skill.

- Gustav: It's a shame the lengths they go to to deny us our first cavalry dragon. His kit is a little confused in that he has skills for both phases that don't do anything in the opposite phase - so does that make him a usable Galeforce unit or not? I don't know, not being able to smack down enemy ranged units in either phase is a pretty sizable compromise.

- Rhea: She might be the headline unit of the banner, but her appeal is somewhat off the mark for my own playstyle. I struggle to use armours at the best of times, especially one lacking any form of DC, guaranteed follow-up or extra movement. I get that a Save unit needs none of those things, but it's still a tough sell since I still completely lack Far Save to run alongside her. Still, she's set up out-of-the-box with a complete kit, which would save me the difficulty of building a Near Save unit from scratch out of my spare Dedue.

 

Like any banner, it's probably going to be either the flier or the horse that most fits me, but I'm not ruling out sparking any of them until we have the full picture.

[Tybrosion]

Days Since Last Three Houses Unit: 136 (assuming I counted right) 0

Rhea was entirely expected, so the only surprising thing is that she didn't bring anyone else from Three Houses with her.

Some other things to note:

• Fallen Gustav stat line as an NPC (back in 2019) was 42/37/26/35/22/162. I'd imagine his new stat line will look like Otr's but with higher Spd and lower Res.
• They got Ninian's English voice actor wrong in the trailer. It's still Brianna Knickerbocker rather than Amber Connor (Faye's voice actress). 

2 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

It's a shame the lengths they go to to deny us our first cavalry dragon.

Two of those already exist at these point: Nifl (Blue Breath) and Muspell (Red Breath). They're both regular pool 5*s too rather than Mythics (for reasons only IS knows) despite being literal gods.

[Ice Dragon]

Translation things:

The banner's name "Beyond Control" is "まつろわぬ魂たち" (matsurowanu tamashi-tachi), "Disobedient Souls". The word "服わぬ" (matsurowanu) appears to be extremely archaic. A Google search seems to find that it really only appears in two set phrases, "まつろわぬ神" (matsurowanu kami), "disobedient god", generally referring to the Shinto god Amatsu-Mikaboshi, and "まつろわぬ民" (matsurowanu tami), "disobedient citizenry".

Lilith's epithet, "Silent Broodling", is "透魔竜の娘" (tōmaryū no musume), "Daughter of the Silent Dragon". "透魔竜" (tōmaryū) is Anankos's class name, localized as "Silent Dragon". The word translates literally as "Transparent-Magic Dragon", though the word translated here as "transparent", "透" (tō), has multiple meanings, all related to "passing through", as it could mean "transparent", "creating a gap to pass through", or "silent". "透魔" (tōma) is also the name of Valla in Japanese.

Silent Power is "透魔竜の力" (tōmaryū no chikara), "Power of the Silent Dragon".

Spd Smoke is "速さの紫煙" (hayasa no shien), "Spd Smoke". The word "紫煙" (shien) literally translates as "purple smoke", hence why the smoke in the icon is purple.

Ninian's epithet, "Frozen Heart", is "心を奪われし氷竜" (kokoro o ubawareshi hyōryū), "Ice Dragon Whose Heart Was Stolen".

Enveloping Breath is "茫漠のブレス" (bōbaku no buresu), "Enveloping Breath". The word "茫漠" (bōbaku) means "vast, but with no clear boundary".

Call to Flame is "オイデ、ヒノコタチ" (oide, hi-no-ko-tachi), "COME, CHILDREN OF FIRE". This is the line from Chapter 19E/20H when Ninian opens the Dragon's Gate the first time and summons the first fire dragon. It is originally styled "・・・オイデ / ヒノ・・・コ・・・タチ / ココニ・・・オイデ・・・" (...oide / hi no... ko... tachi / koko ni... oide...), "...COME / CHILDREN... OF... FIRE / COME... HERE...". As mentioned previously in Mediuth's translation notes, these lines are written entirely in katakana, which is used to indicate that the voice is inhuman, e.g. robotic or monstrous. The localized line in English is "Here… / Come, children of…flame. / Come…to me…"

Gustav's epithet, "Sovereign Slain", is "死せる王" (shi-seru ō), "Slain King".

Headsman Glitnir is "死斧グリトニル" (shifu guritoniru), "Death Axe Glitnir".

Atk Smoke is "攻撃の紫煙" (kōgeki no shien), "Atk Smoke".

Rhea's epithet, "Immaculate One", is "白きもの" (shiroki mono), "The Immaculate One". "白きもの" (shiroki mono), "The White One", is Rhea's class name, localized as "The Immaculate One".

Ruinous Frost is "滅亡の霜雪" (metsubō no sōsetsu), "Hoarfrost of Ruin". "霜雪" (sōsetsu), "frost and snow", is the name of Rhea's Staggering Blow in Silver Snow, localized as "Hoarfrost".

True Dragon Wall is "真竜鱗障壁" (shin ryūrin shōheki), "True Dragon-Scale Wall". "竜鱗障壁" (ryūrin shōheki), "Dragonscale Barrier", is the name of the Dragon-Scale Wall Barrier ability in Three Houses and the name of the Dragon Wall skill in Heroes.

Muarim's epithet, "Raw Instinct", is "暴走する本能" (bōsō-suru honnō), "Berserk Instinct".

Wild Tiger Fang is "暴走の虎の爪牙" (bōsō no tora no sōga), "Berserk Tiger's Claws and Fangs".

Edited May 11, 2022 by Ice Dragon

[Humanoid]

5 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Two of those already exist at these point: Nifl (Blue Breath) and Muspell (Red Breath).

Oh right, I see them not-infrequently, but every time I do I just assume Nifl is a flier and Muspell is an infantry.

 

P.S. On a completely different note, I had no idea who Muarim was, and from the comparison to Vika (who I'd never heard of either prior to her manual appearing) I was hopeful he'd be a birb unit. Alas, denied.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Humanoid

[Some Jerk]

>me, seeing no Atk/Def Hold: Oh yes, skip!
>me, seeing a fallen dancer: oh no-

Fallen!Lilith: Regular Lilith with a different coat of paint. She's be re-tuned to be able to fight solo, getting NFU as a buff just for starting the turn near her ally, and her All+5 is now tied to an HP threshold. Highly optimized kit that makes it easy to get the crucial first hit for her gimmick, but she might be too reliant on Spd Smoke 4's Dodge to run any alternative builds.

Fallen!Ninian: Good lord, it's Triandra and L!Azura wrapped up into one. The Atk/Res and Guard swings are already a powerful combo, but that extra movement for danced dragons is the kicker, especially since nothing states it doesn't work on Nifl or Muspell. She could also make a vicious magic tank if you feel like building her that way.

Gustav: Man, who needs Spd anyway? Vanilla Glitnir was already scary in practice (though we never got to use it...), but it's fallen off since Book III, so now we get this holy shit contraption. Like Fallen!Lilith he comes with pretty much everything he could want, but he'll have trouble getting in for the first hit depending on the map, and he'll probably explode horribly to magic.

Fallen!Rhea: What we all expected Seiros to be. She probably won't be doubling anything, but she'll also be taking fuck-all for damage from anything that doesn't match her Res; even ignoring her DR, Young!Innes and Tine will have a hell of a time getting through those Def/Res stats and Anti-Follow Up. Lethality stocks continue to rise...

Ninian > Rhea > Lilith > Gustav. Obviously I'm obligated to grab Ninian because she's a dancer, but it is interesting for someone to be better than the actual headliner of the banner, and I've been in need of a dedicated Restank that isn't just Leanne.