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New Heroes (Beyond Control)


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3 hours ago, Some Jerk said:

We have acquired datamines.

Banner Unit stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

Lilith: 39-/40-/43/29/33 (184 BST)
Ninian: 45/27/40+/23/36 (171 BST)
Gustav: 40-/41+/25-/38/30- (174 BST)
Rhea: 46/43+/18-/40+/43- (190 BST)

Muarim:

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Class: Blue Beast (Infantry)
Stats: 45/43-/40+/31-/22 (181 BST)
Skills: Wrath at 4*, Even Atk Wave at 5*

Weapon: Wild Tiger Fang
Grants Atk+3. At start of turn, inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-6 on foes within 4 spaces of unit through their next actions. At start of combat, if foe's HP ≥ 75%, grants Atk/Spd+6 to unit and neutralizes bonuses (from skills like Fortify, Rally, etc.) on foe during combat.
At start of turn 2, turn 4, and all later turns, unit transforms (otherwise, unit reverts). If unit transforms, grants Atk+2, deals +7 damage when Special triggers, and neutralizes effects that grant "Special cooldown charge +X" to foe or inflict "Special cooldown charge -X" on unit during combat, but after combat, if unit attacked, deals 5 damage to unit.

 

So Muarim has a special "feral" transformation, that's neat. What's his special?

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I have mixed feelings about this banner. The dragon theme was great, but for some reason Fafnir wasn't chosen but Gustav (who I'm very temped to splurge and Spark on) is? And Chrom, one of the very few characters with Fallen-esque Cipher art, who won CYL 6 isn't in this banner? Granted, I'm sure the units for this one were chosen months before CYL6, and Chrom just got a Valentines Day Alt, but this could have been the year of Chrom! (And honestly he should have had a Fallen Alt a long time ago.) 

Still, as I said, Gustav may be worth Splurging for since this may be the closest we get to a Vanilla version of him, and I'm always a sucker for Rhea. This will most likely be a Spark banner for me, but not a happy one! 

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3 hours ago, Othin said:

 

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So Muarim has a special "feral" transformation, that's neat. What's his special?

 

Spoiler

Muarim's Special is surprisingly (not real) not Glacies Dragon Fang.

 

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6 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

The dragon theme was great, but for some reason Fafnir wasn't chosen but Gustav (who I'm very temped to splurge and Spark on) is?

https://tenor.com/69qZ.gif

6 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Granted, I'm sure the units for this one were chosen months before CYL6, and Chrom just got a Valentines Day Alt, but this could have been the year of Chrom!

Maybe in 2024. After the early years when we got multiples of... certain Heroes in a single year, I'm glad IS learned some restraint, even for one of the fan favorites. I would love a general "Cipher alts" banner though: that game had some really cool designs.

Re. the leaks:

Spoiler

I LOVE that Muarim has a new transformation mechanic, and it makes me wonder if this is going to be exclusive to special beasts or if we'll see a larger variety of transformation methods going forward. That could make things quite interesting, and lead to more varied team comps to boot!

 

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Regarding Fafnir's absence, we actually kinda have a reason as to why [SPOILERS]:

Spoiler

Basically, the setting of the Forging Bonds is in Nidavellir a year before Book V's events and Eitri actually summoned this set of Fallen Heroes.

 

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Datamine stuff:

Spoiler

Muarim having a unique "Feral One" transform condition makes me think they might actually do something with Izca that affects beasts' transform conditions. Something like "at start of turn, beast allies within 2 spaces of unit transform regardless of their transform condition". Probably also apply +6 Atk/Spd and deal 5 damage to them or something like that.

I hope they add Izca sometime soon. I really like his design from Radiant Dawn. Fuzzy coat.

 

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Gustav's accessory is... the Sword of Justice...
...hm...

It also seems the Forging Bonds main story is the only part that takes place one year before the events of Book V, while the characters individual stories take place in the "current" time. Which... makes sense I guess.

Edited by Xenomata
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So let's whip out the list of all possible Fallen candidates I made before the banner last year.

On 4/4/2021 at 9:09 PM, Jotari said:

No idea who's next, but I want to challenge myself to compile a list of all possible candidates from the canon series (so ignoring stuff like Risen King Chrom).

Shadow Dragon

No one I can think of. We already have Fallen Tiki and that's about it.

Gaiden

*Marla

*Hestia

*Already have her with fallen Berku, but flaming Rinea is still an option if they want it

New Mystery

*Elice

*Lena

*Maria

*Nyna

*Bit of a stretch but Ghost Gharnef

*Hell I'll say Medeus himself. His Earth Dragon form isn't depicted as anyway good, but he still has that fallen aesthetic in his Dark Dragon form

Genealogy

*Fully possessed Julius in the same vein as Fully Possessed Lyon (would be nice to have a Julius that's half decent as a unit)

Thracia

The Deadlords, so in terms of characters that would be

*Raydrik

*Galzus

*Dagdar

*Evyl

*Sara

*Lifis

Binding Blade

Hmm. Can't think of anyone specific. Default Idoun is already kind of the fallen version of her. I guess they could pull off a Fallen Zephiel if they make it the state he was in when he killed his father.

Blazing Blade

Nergal's endgame morphs, so,

*Ursula

*Lloyd

*Linus

*Jerme

*Kenneth

*Brendan

*Darin

*Uhai

*Kishuna as well, kind of

Only one of them I see standing a decent chance is Brendan given it's the only time you actually fight him in the game. Oh wait

*Berserk Ninian, that's a thing, and could actually work pretty well.

*Dunban, he was the berserker after all

*And I see a lot of people are (understandably) clamoring for Nergal himself. Which if it's to be Fallen Nergal I'd rather it be crazy Nergal summoning the Frie Dragon and leaving calm Nergal with his tome for a different date, though I don't particularly seeing that happen much as I'd love it to for actually including random fire dragon.

Sacred Stones

*Morva

*Orson

*Vigarde

Path of Radiance

*Freal Rajaion

*Feral Renning

Radiant Dawn

*Feral Muraim, it's just that one scene and he's a minor character, still, beasts are in short supply

*Berserk Greil (this is totally who Fallen Ike should have been instead imo)

*Lehran? Doesn't really fit the aesthetic but he does suit it conceptually

Awakening

*Amnesiac Emmeryn (lol) Base Emmeryn is pre fall, right?

*Future Past Morgan Male

*Future Past Morgan Female

*Noire? It's played for a joke, but it's not the worst fit. Likely won't happen though

Fates

Anankos's posse, so

*Sumeragi

*Arete

*Mikoto

*Scarlet,

*Anthony (as a beast unit? Or they can just finally give us gauntlets to fill up that colourless physical niche)

*Berserk Kana Male

*Berserk Kana Female

*Rhajat? I remember you fight her in her recruitment chapter, though I can't quite remember the justification as to why

*Cavalry Dragon Gunther (make it happen IS!)

*Goo Garon

Three Houses

*Silver Snow Rhea

*Hegemon Edelgard

*Miklan

*Monica's Father

*Crimson Flower Dedue

*Boar Dimitri, though we've kind of seen that character design with his brave version already

*Aelfric

*They're not fallen Heroes, but any of the Agrathans could fit the aestetic.

Other

*Darios from Fire Emblem Warriors

*Yasuo from TMS, I can't remember exactly why he fights you in that. I think he's just a dick, still it'd be a good opportunity to try in squeeze in one of the last two TMS characters

*Shade from Cipher, though this would be more based off her getting possessed or something in Shadows of Valentia

 

I think that's reasonably comprehensive. Ignoring stuff that isn't in the actual games I'd be surprised if they pick any that I didn't list here. Though chances are I've missed some that I'm sure some people will point out.

So Gustaf expands the potential list to Heroes OCs, so we might see an earlier version of Alfonse in transition to becoming Lif in the future (and same for Veronica and whatever her alt name is, Thrasir or something, coming to think of it I'm surprised they haven't made "The actual legendary figures these characters were named after" Mythics yet).

Fallen Lilith is one that slipped by me. Didn't expect her. I guess because she's not really a fallen hero. She's kind of like the opposite that people want, an anti fallen hero. In that she was created to be "bad" and swapped to the side of "good". Not that I think that particularly disquialified her from the banner, Anankos loyal Lilith is a good idea. Though I don't really like the art work. Unlike all the other fallen heroes we've had so far it isn't dark powers or hypnoses or a berserk state or something. Her situation is purely an alignment swap. Having her brimming with dark energy doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And personally I rather like how she actually appears in Hidden Truths, which is all shaded and obscured (as if they're trying to hide something when they're clearly not). I think I would have liked Sepia Lilith over dark energy lilith as an artistic choice.

And speaking of Lilith, anyone else feel inundated with Dragons on this banner? Three our of four. I like dragons as much as the next guy, but if you're going to go that far with them you might as well just axe (heh) Gustav and give us Morva for a full dragon banner. Alternatively, let us see Lilith fight in her human form as a dagger unit, she is a maid after all. And we never actually see her in gameplay in Hidden Truths. Would it make any sense for Anankos's faithful clone daughter to fight with a knife, meh, not really, but less sensical things have been done before.

I'm slightly surprised, but also happy, they went with Muraim. He was one of the ones I found less likely on my list. I think their choices this time round shows that Fallen Heroes isn't going anywhere. There are still plenty of viable candidates left, especially now that they've opened it up to Heroes characters.

Edited by Jotari
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Yay, I've got Gustav pretty quickly so I might pull until the spark if I get enough free orbs for it. Otherwise I'm already extremely happy. Especially since he's Atk+/Speed-

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So you'd think that Letiza is the type to lord it over team Askr that she controls their zombie father now. But instead all Gustav does this chapter is to show up a single second and say ''Hi I'm gustav''. That's all he says....to his children. While fighting them. 

In general Letiza seems the type to make it a point to let Heroes under her command go berserk yet nothing is done with this. Tying the banner characters into the story really isn't hard, and this in particular was pretty much a freebie for the writing team.

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15 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

So you'd think that Letiza is the type to lord it over team Askr that she controls their zombie father now. But instead all Gustav does this chapter is to show up a single second and say ''Hi I'm gustav''. That's all he says....to his children. While fighting them. 

In general Letiza seems the type to make it a point to let Heroes under her command go berserk yet nothing is done with this. Tying the banner characters into the story really isn't hard, and this in particular was pretty much a freebie for the writing team.

At this point I doubt the writing team even gets told what heroes are going to be in each chapter.

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Ok so I can't decide who to free pick.  I pulled Rhea but that was it and now I am at 40 summons. I am torn between Lilith and Ninian I can't decide who would be more useful to me.  Red flying dragon with better everything or another good dancer.  Anyone who has the 3 I don't let me know who you think is best, if Gustav is really good I could pick him. 

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50 minutes ago, EricaofRenais said:

Ok so I can't decide who to free pick.  I pulled Rhea but that was it and now I am at 40 summons. I am torn between Lilith and Ninian I can't decide who would be more useful to me.  Red flying dragon with better everything or another good dancer.  Anyone who has the 3 I don't let me know who you think is best, if Gustav is really good I could pick him. 

I only have Lilith, but I can quickly tell you from my own observations:

  • A lot of what Lilith can even do is locked behind having a support partner. If you don't give her one to always be near, or in the case of Hero Battles you don't bother to update her support ally to someone on the current team, then you only have a moderately alright fast Red Dragon unit.
  • It's hard to say bad about having a Dancer, especially if they come preloaded with good skills and ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY if they have a Prf Dance skill. If you have units who could benefit from Call to Flame, then it would be a good idea to pick her up. Just keep in mind that this doesn't work out as well if you don't have powerful units to actually give Ninian's support to.
  • Gustav's ideal playstyle involves going in to net an almost immediate kill (usually against someone who can counterattack, as that's who Gustav gets guaranteed follow-ups on), then hanging in the area to let the enemy break themselves on him. He has all the tools to do it, and if you want you could even theoretically give him Galeforce to get two kills in quick succession. He would also want some form of Distant Counter for EP play.

So yeah, Lilith only works if you have someone to ally support her, Ninian works best if you have the units to benefit from her boons, and Gustav would probably be the best pick if you can't justify the former two. That's my opinion.

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18 minutes ago, EricaofRenais said:

Ok so I can't decide who to free pick.  I pulled Rhea but that was it and now I am at 40 summons. I am torn between Lilith and Ninian I can't decide who would be more useful to me.  Red flying dragon with better everything or another good dancer.  Anyone who has the 3 I don't let me know who you think is best, if Gustav is really good I could pick him. 

If you aren't going to be using Ally Support on Lilith or are unlikely to field the two units together regularly, Summer Tiki is actually pretty comparable. Tiki loses 4 Spd (both units at max Dragonflowers), but has a more reliable and stronger Special. But if you are going to be using her with her support partner, Null Follow-Up and being able to teleport across the map are both really good effects to have. The teleportation is probably extremely abusable in Resonant Battles.

Ninian is really only notable for having a similar dance effect as Triandra's dance skill (debuffs different stats, mostly useful for dragons and tomes) and granting +1 Special charge rate to the dance target. The +1 movement effect for dragons isn't too impactful at the moment because the only units that it matters for are Nifl and Muspell, and both of them have issues when it comes to making the most out of the extra movement (no access to Galeforce, optimal Trace skills haven't been released yet, Domain skills require them to stay near teammates, etc.). And unlike a lot of the more recent dancers, Ninian has noodles for arms and zero combat presence. And her default Pulse Tie is the wrong one for player use. That said, Ninian is good if you need a dedicated support dancer on a magic- or dragon-heavy team, and her base kit is especially suitable for AoE Special usage on tome units (Atk buff, Res debuff, +1 Special charge rate to counter Guard, Pulse Tie to disable defensive Specials).

Gustav is Legendary Ephraim with an axe and a better Res stat. If you like Legendary Ephraim, but wish you had a bulkier one with an axe, Gustav is your man.

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@Ice Dragon and @Xenomata Ok then since I always tend to forget about supports so looks like Lilith is out.  Honestly from what both of you have said it looks like Gustav would work best for my playstyle.  I will plan on getting Ninian on the banner rerun then.  Thank you both for the help.

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I wish there was a thread up for the FB because it's a pretty interesting one, from what I'm observing.

Anyway, Gustav's accessory nailed me right in the heart. Oh man. Adorable and tragic and wonderful and...argh. Lif's wearing it right now. Also, Lilith gets another piece of merch of her -- this time a plush. I may have to drop that on Dancing Xander. Swimming Xander is already wearing the mask and has the floatie.

Anyway, on the story side of things, I feel like FEH contradicts itself a bit. Last year's Fallen FB gave us new canon: that heroes are incapable of killing each other. But the last FB (specifically, Arthur's encounter with Yen'fay and Say'ri) seemed to contradict that since Arthur and Fjorm were concerned that the sparring siblings were sparring so intensely that they could have killed each other, and Anna even warned them about that.

With the above contradiction in mind, I'm not sure how much stock to put into this latest story. It's neat that we get some clarity on Books 3 and 5 through this, but how much of it is reliably canon? Otr's mind only just beginning to go evil at the beginning of Book 5 seems to be a plot point that IS is forgetting about (even though he has canonically been working with Eitri for longer than that, he seemed to only be doing so because he was being driven by fear of losing his brother, and didn't actually hate Reginn until he'd totally lost it.) The way Otr's being written here, though, it's like IS isn't taking a strong stance on how to portray him. That said, Eitri's consistent, and it's nice that we get to see exactly where in the timeline it is that Loki takes the fake summon gun from Eitri. So, that's neat. And dang, poor Gustav. That guy works harder than anyone, let me tell you. Even in death, he's still protecting the kingdom. Dang.

Anyway, I guess that also explains how we got these guys, if I'm guessing right. Briedablik can pluck heroes out from any world and any time, so it makes sense that we can reach into this world's own past and summon heroes from then, too. I was wondering how the writers would turn it around, since it sure was making it look like "oh no, it's so horrible to summon fallen her- wait. That's what we keep doing." That's pretty cool. So, by summing them, we're saving them. Neat. Also explains why Eitri blew a gasket, and what it looks like when heroes are summoned from their original time/place. Cool. If the canon can be trusted, we really get a lot of insights in this FB, and I appreciate that.

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10 hours ago, EricaofRenais said:

Ok so I can't decide who to free pick.  I pulled Rhea but that was it and now I am at 40 summons. I am torn between Lilith and Ninian I can't decide who would be more useful to me.  Red flying dragon with better everything or another good dancer.  Anyone who has the 3 I don't let me know who you think is best, if Gustav is really good I could pick him. 

I'm going LIlith to slap that C skill on Yen'Fey. No amount of stacking damage reduction is going too far!

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On 5/8/2022 at 12:29 AM, Ice Dragon said:

Wild Tiger Fang is "暴走の虎の爪牙" (bōsō no tora no sōga), "Berserk Tiger's Claws and Fangs".

Added Muarim's weapon to the translation notes.

 

Now that Muarim is officially released, I can talk about him.

Muarim looks really awesome as a unit. His offenses are great at 43/40 with a superboon in Spd, and his weapon grants the typical +6 Atk/Spd in combat, which lets him keep up reasonably well. His permanent stat bonus is +3 Atk, which would have been better as Spd, but Atk is the next best thing. He also gets Walhart's 4-range Threaten, but with -6 to all stats instead of Walhart's -7 Atk/Def and Flash, making him a really good all-round debuffer.

As mentioned before in spoilers, he has a new and unique transformation condition, which has him untransformed on turns 1 and 3 and transformed on all other turns with no other conditions, and the only drawback is that he has Push recoil. Since he is an infantry beast, this also gives him an additional 7 damage when his Special activates and Tempo.

His transformation condition being completely detached from team composition is pretty amazing, as it allows him to be used even without dragon or beast units to ease the usual transformation condition. With transformation conditions no longer being the same all the time, I'm hoping this means we can get skills or status effects that can force teammates to transform. For example, Izca can potentially get a skill (probably a weapon effect) that forces nearby beast allies to transform at the beginning of the turn, and a heron could potentially force a transformation with an exclusive dance skill to reference Radiant Dawn's Valor song. Similarly, we could potentially get Volug and Ascended or Legendary Laguz kings with permanent transformations.

As far as skills go, he is the second unit to have Wrath unlocked as a 4-star unit (the first was Ninja Hana), and Wrath works well in combination with his transformation's Push recoil. Dragon Fang and Even Atk Wave are throwaway skills.

His major drawbacks are the skill restrictions he faces due to being a beast unit, as he doesn't have access to Dodge, Ruptured Sky, or Vital Astra. He would also prefer to have access to Catch instead of Ideal, but he doesn't due to being infantry.

 

I wonder how effective Surge Sparrow would be on him. On the one hand, he'd be constantly healing out of Wrath range and pretty much never activate Wrath's start-of-turn effect, but he can still get Wrath's damage bonus by taking counterattack damage, given that he'll always be starting combat with a minimum of 5 damage.

If you assume that he'll never have enough damage on him to activate Wrath's start-of-turn effect, he can run Luna and have it always activate on his second attack against an opponent that can counterattack:

Fallen Muarim [+Spd]
Wild Tiger Fang
[Assist]
Luna
Surge Sparrow
Wrath 3
Time's Pulse 3
Atk/Spd Solo 3 / etc.

If you do want to make use of Wrath's start-of-turn effect, he'll probably be better off running Moonbow/Glimmer with Atk/Spd Ideal 4, which will give him a fully charged Special at the start of every turn. Or if you don't care about losing a ton of stats on his first round of combat, you can give him Brazen Atk/Spd.

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My pre-Spark luck was so bad I got no focus units and was pitybroke by a Nifl mid-way and a Flavia right on the 40th orb. But then the instant I went back in I got a +Res/-HP Ninian (whom my Spark has now been merged into).

I really shouldn't complain, but I feel like Lilith has (perhaps reasonably) actively screwed with the summoning so I would not be able to feed her to Ninian (and Larum, should I pull a second).

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On 5/11/2022 at 12:46 AM, Mercakete said:

Anyway, on the story side of things, I feel like FEH contradicts itself a bit. Last year's Fallen FB gave us new canon: that heroes are incapable of killing each other. But the last FB (specifically, Arthur's encounter with Yen'fay and Say'ri) seemed to contradict that since Arthur and Fjorm were concerned that the sparring siblings were sparring so intensely that they could have killed each other, and Anna even warned them about that.

Actually it's the opposite in a way: heroes can't die. But they still feel pain according to the prologue and a castle quote from Anna. If you squint you could argue that that's what Anna is referring to in that FB, but that does seem to have been an oversight.

On 5/11/2022 at 12:46 AM, Mercakete said:

Anyway, Gustav's accessory nailed me right in the heart. Oh man. Adorable and tragic and wonderful and...argh.

Same! His gameplay dialogue is even worse, believe it or not. I didn't think anyone could make me feel guilty for using them well other than [3H]

Spoiler

post-time skip Dorothea

, yet here we are. I haven't listened to his voice lines, but if they're anything like those or his Lv 40 conversation... they're going to be quite painful.

On 5/11/2022 at 12:46 AM, Mercakete said:

If the canon can be trusted, we really get a lot of insights in this FB, and I appreciate that.

Same! While the narrative can be hit or miss, the lore has some neat little details that I appreciate as well!

On 5/11/2022 at 12:46 AM, Mercakete said:

I wish there was a thread up for the FB because it's a pretty interesting one, from what I'm observing.

And yes, I wish we had a FB thread too; all the stories were quite good this time around. I particularly enjoyed the set-up for Lilith's,

Spoiler

where everyone acts like she just got up on the wrong side of the bed. Kinda like F!Julia in that regard xD

And as someone who always liked the idea of Lilith but not how she was executed in Fates, her dialogue was overall quite sweet to see as well.

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1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

 

 as someone who always liked the idea of Lilith but not how she was executed in Fates

Phrasing. 😛 (But yeah, kind of same. Beta fish dragon is such a good idea, and she has a nice design in her human form, too.) Would've loved supports with her in her home game, though I kind of get why they opted out from that.

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39 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Would've loved supports with her in her home game, though I kind of get why they opted out from that.

Is it because she is Corrins direct blood sister and they weren't willing to go that far with the incest (obviously giving her supports but not having a marriage S supports was completely out of the question)?

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12 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Phrasing.

I mean... how they did that was really dumb too, so... 😛

And while I think she has a unique dragon form, I was also referring to the idea of her being created to be a weapon but choosing to side against her father and gain friends along the way 🙂

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

Is it because she is Corrins direct blood sister and they weren't willing to go that far with the incest (obviously giving her supports but not having a marriage S supports was completely out of the question)?

I love it xD And hey, technically she's only Corrin's half-sister? Genetics are weird when you only have one parent yet aren't a clone for waifu reasons, but shared blood didn't stop

Spoiler

Corrin x Azura

being the de facto canon ship in the end...

Edited by DefyingFates
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