New Heroes (Beyond Control)

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, Alexmender said:

If close to her support partner she gets the super teleportation (what should this be called, Aerobatics+ ?) and grants said partner and herself NFU.

She doesn't need to be close to her support partner to teleport. She can teleport to her support partner from anywhere on the map.

 

2 hours ago, Alexmender said:

Her exclusive dance gives something akin to a Breath skill on the unit she targets, although I'm not sure if it's of the kind that only triggers per unit's attack or also if they're hit.

Both when attacking and when hit and on both phases.

 

2 hours ago, Alexmender said:

Atk Smoke 4 has an impact-like effect, but just like with Spd Smoke it triggers after 1 combat, which isn't all that great unless one is running the unit with a lot of dancers. 

It's a status effect, so it'll be in effect for the entirety of the following enemy phase.

 

35 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Especially since she's sandbagged by a silly Duel skill.

Duel is arguably the best skill for that slot on her with her base kit, as tier-4 Duel is the best skill for boosting HP.

Ninian is tied with herself for the second-highest HP of all dancers after Dragonflowers, with only Nils having more HP, though she drops to tied for sixth if you count refined weapons on units with no exclusive weapon.

 

35 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

His kit is a little confused in that he has skills for both phases that don't do anything in the opposite phase - so does that make him a usable Galeforce unit or not?

Yes, he can Galeforce.

I'm not sure what you mean by "skills for both phases that don't do anything on the opposite phase". Everything he has is dual-phase. Headsman Glitnir's stat penalty is active on both phases, and its guaranteed follow-up is always active on enemy phase and active on player phase if the opponent can counterattack. Atk/Def Catch is active on both phases. A/D Near Trace's stat penalties are active on both phases. Atk Smoke 4 grants +6 Def/Res and follow-up prevention as status effects on the user, so they're active through enemy phase until the start of the next player phase.

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Ice Dragon

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

I think they actually broke their own canon here... Fallen Lilith seems to be based on Lilith from Hidden Truths, when she was still a pawn of Anankos. But back then she shouldn't have had this fish-dragon form yet, as it's a power granted by the Astral Dragon Moro. Maybe they'll make up some shit about how she went back to Anankos, but if they don't then they pretty much just forgot how their own character worked lol.

Edited May 8, 2022 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[Humanoid]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

Yes, he can Galeforce.

I'm not sure what you mean by "skills for both phases that don't do anything on the opposite phase". Everything he has is dual-phase. Headsman Glitnir's stat penalty is active on both phases, and its guaranteed follow-up is always active on enemy phase and active on player phase if the opponent can counterattack. Atk/Def Catch is active on both phases. A/D Near Trace's stat penalties are active on both phases. Atk Smoke 4 grants +6 Def/Res and follow-up prevention as status effects on the user, so they're active through enemy phase until the start of the next player phase.

Yeah, the kit works fine, I'm probably expecting a little too much. The inability to double ranged units is the big concern of course, the others are more slight quibbles at what are really fairly reasonable compromises, especially as I'm 95% player phase these days due to my inability to judge the outcome of modern skill-inflated enemy-phasing.

I guess what I'm saying is that with the exception of the auto follow-up, his skills do slightly lean on the player phase more. Catch is great of course but he can't get the full effect without support on the first combat on either phase (no biggie). Trace of course is more valuable on player phase (otherwise there's Lull for buff negation). And Smokes naturally lean player phase since they have difficulty hitting extra targets on enemy phase, plus that first attacker will double him (whereas on player phase, two of Gustav's attacks should kill anything, so he shouldn't get doubled at all).

The wash-up after re-reading all that is that his weapon has a slight enemy-phase bias, while the rest of his kit has a slight player-phase bias. Calling it confused is probably a little strong but it's just far enough from being perfect to make him not my automatic choice for the job, nor for the spark.

[Tybrosion]

22 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I think they actually broke their own canon here... Fallen Lilith seems to be based on Lilith from Hidden Truths, when she was still a pawn of Anankos. But back then she shouldn't have had this fish-dragon form yet, as it's a power granted by the Astral Dragon Moro. Maybe they'll make up some shit about how she went back to Anankos, but if they don't then they pretty much just forgot how their own character worked lol.

I'm gonna guess IS's mindset here was something along the lines of "no one cares about Fates's canon / lore (what little there is of it to begin with), so why should we?"

That, and I guess every dragon unit not named Sothis needs a dragon form to shift into. 

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Humanoid said:

Yeah, the kit works fine, I'm probably expecting a little too much. The inability to double ranged units is the big concern of course, the others are more slight quibbles at what are really fairly reasonable compromises, especially as I'm 95% player phase these days due to my inability to judge the outcome of modern skill-inflated enemy-phasing.

I guess what I'm saying is that with the exception of the auto follow-up, his skills do slightly lean on the player phase more. Catch is great of course but he can't get the full effect without support on the first combat on either phase (no biggie). Trace of course is more valuable on player phase (otherwise there's Lull for buff negation). And Smokes naturally lean player phase since they have difficulty hitting extra targets on enemy phase, plus that first attacker will double him (whereas on player phase, two of Gustav's attacks should kill anything, so he shouldn't get doubled at all).

The wash-up after re-reading all that is that his weapon has a slight enemy-phase bias, while the rest of his kit has a slight player-phase bias. Calling it confused is probably a little strong but it's just far enough from being perfect to make him not my automatic choice for the job, nor for the spark.

Not having the second stack of Catch on the first round of combat isn't too much of an issue, as it's only 2 Atk/Def that you're missing, and as you mentioned, it's not hard to get the second stack with support, especially with Menace skills being somewhat common on recent units.

Smoke is easier to land the debuffs on player phase, but the tier-4 skills' secondary effects remain through enemy phase.

Gustav is effectively a dual-phase unit with an obligate player phase, i.e. he needs to engage in combat during player phase in order to make the most of his enemy phase.

 

As for not having Distant Counter, that probably won't be much of an issue because, if his stats are similar to his enemy stats, his Res will likely be too low to be particularly useful against tome units.

[Humanoid]

Yeah, not going to be hard to live with the limitations especially as he doesn't have much competition for the axe cavalry slot. I did just finish merging Walhart not long ago but their roles aren't particularly comparable, plus I haven't gotten him any of his skills yet (though if I pull multiple Liliths maybe...)

Anyway, as it stands I'll see who I get - if anyone - from the 40 pulls to the spark, then probably spark for a missing one, in order of priority of Lilith > Gustav > Rhea > Ninian. Kind of split on the last two really, one hampered by my not playing armour teams, the other by my not having many decent player-phase dragons. In the end, Rhea having a real A-skill instead of a Duel skill probably is the tiebreaker.

[Hilda]

I have a slight suspicion that theese Tier4 Smoke skills will be Cav and Flyer exclusiv (probably melee exclusiv too)

And that Inf and Armor are getting Tier 4 Ploys, when the time comes

Just my guess

[Etrurian emperor]

Oof poor Tormod. He's the only member of the LEA who's still left out. Even his dad wasn't enough to make him tag along. I hope Muarim already being in doesn't decrease Tormod's chances.

I'm not really impressed with Lilith being on the banner since she's a gameplay mechanic and not a real character. Ninian's a pretty good pic given events in FE7 and I guess Rhea works too.

[MagicCanonBalls]

Overall quite a good lineup. I am aiming for Gustav and Lilith, with Ninian as duel skill fodder. Not sure how I feel about Smoke 4. They are powerful and hopefully will be on more units like Atk/Spd push 4, but I don't want to see them on AR or Arena.

[DefyingFates]

6 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I kinda expected Ninian and Rhea, I'm not upset at either of them being here.

May I ask how you predicted Ninian, please?

6 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Muarim definitely deserved to be in, although I'd really like his base version to be in eventually.

Fingers crossed for him and Tormod both! I was surprised to see Muarim in the notifications, but I'm looking forward to seeing him. I hope he's good!

It's funny that og!Ninian still has no Prf, but this version has both a Prf AND a unique Dance, which is pretty nifty (AND B Duel Infantry 4!) Hopefully the dragon restriction on the extra Mov keeps things in check. I don't think she and Lilith make much sense here, since Ninian just had a burst of panic and Lilith was basically a mini-Camus, but whatever. Her still being able to teleport to an ally could be alluding to her wanting friends... but it's likely just because it's her "niche" in FEH. I didn't expect to see Gustav... ever, so it's nice to finally have him playable too. Fallen Fafnir for 2024?

And Rhea:

6 hours ago, Florete said:

The Immaculate One looks like they wanted to make a really strong unit again, but didn't want the kind of backlash Hegemon Husk got.

Absolutely. You can almost see the points in her skill descriptions where they likely took stuff out to avoid another Hegemon situation. For a second I thought True Dragon Wall was a Tier 4 skill, but thankfully it's a Prf. 60% DR once per turn and 40% after sounds better than F!Edel's 80% given she doesn't have a full kit's worth of other abilities crammed into both her weapon AND Prf skill at least - at least theoretically.

As for Spd and Atk Smoke 4s: I like that they do different things, that's some nice creativity there, and it's nice to buff the OG Smoke skills, even if they may have gone a bit overboard.

6 hours ago, Karuu30 said:

Also, her voice line really gave me chills. So amazing!

Agreed. As @Sentinel07 said, Cherami Leigh is an incredible actress, one of the best in the business! It's amazing that she got to portray Rhea in completely different atmospheres in each of her FEH alts too!

So yeah, it's been a long time since we've gotten a banner that really caught my interest. I'm tempted to pull for Rhea and/ or Ninian and get the other with a spark depending on how long it takes to get them. Lilith's enhanced movement could be fun too, but I'm not going to test my luck that much. I think. We'll see.

3 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

I'm gonna guess IS's mindset here was something along the lines of "no one cares about Fates's canon / lore (what little there is of it to begin with), so why should we?"

It was their own fault, but yes: I agree.

[Mercakete]

Holy moly. Okay, I admit I was a little frustrated seeing Lilith because I feel like that's spoilers (for me personally; I'm aware that these fallen banners will pretty much always contain spoilers) since I haven't played Revelation yet, and then I felt a little bemused with Ninian for similar reasons (I know what the final boss is of FE7 and I'm actually really close to finishing that game, I just haven't quite done it yet. 1 or 2 more chapters.) But then I had to do a double take at Gustav. DEFINATELY pulling for him!! I'm so glad they're giving Undead Gustav to us!! I can't believe this! And then that Rhea. Okay, so, again, spoilersy for me on a personal note, but DANG that voice actress did an AMAZING job on those lines! Also, I do love my tanky dragons, so I may pull for her if I get Gustav. Okay, now to see if anyone knows who the freebie unit is this time.

OH MAN MUARIM?! This is going to be heartbreaking, I'm sure. I can't wait.

[Ouzyxol]

Well, at least this Fallen Banner isn't as bad as the last.

I would like Ninian and Spd Smoke 4, but I also want to save for B!Micaiah's rerun, so...  I'm going to wait and see if I'll pull on this one.

[Ice Dragon]

3 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

I don't think she and Lilith make much sense here, since Ninian just had a burst of panic and Lilith was basically a mini-Camus, but whatever.

This Ninian is a reference to Chapter 19 when she was mind-controlled by Nergal and summons a fire dragon through the gate. The name of her custom dance skill in Japanese is a direct reference to the line she says right before the illustration cut-in of the fire dragon coming out from the gate.

 

3 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Absolutely. You can almost see the points in her skill descriptions where they likely took stuff out to avoid another Hegemon situation. For a second I thought True Dragon Wall was a Tier 4 skill, but thankfully it's a Prf. 60% DR once per turn and 40% after sounds better than F!Edel's 80% given she doesn't have a full kit's worth of other abilities crammed into both her weapon AND Prf skill at least - at least theoretically.

Edelgard doesn't have 80% damage reduction, though. I think you got that mixed up with Brave Edelgard, who has 80% damage reduction on follow-up attacks.

Edelgard has:

• Slaying effect
• -6 Atk/Def on opponent
• Wary Fighter
• Galeforce
• Distant Counter
• Special charge rate +1
• Guard
• 7 HP recovery after combat
• 40% damage reduction from opponent's first attack, once per phase

Rhea has:

• Slaying effect
• -6 Atk on opponent, +6 Atk on self (functionally the same as Edelgard's but is compatible with her almost-Luna and targeting the lower defense stat)
• Damage equal to 40% of opponent's Res on first attack per round of combat
• Wary Fighter
• Targets lower defense stat against ranged opponents
• Max 60% damage reduction during the first round of combat per phase
• Max 40% damage reduction afterwards
• 7 HP recovery after combat
• 7 HP recovery at the start of the turn

Rhea's damage reduction is significantly stronger than Edelgard's as long as the opponent is unable to match her Res. Edelgard get 40% damage reduction for a single attack each phase and gets 0% after that. Rhea gets 60% damage reduction for an entire round of combat each phase and gets 40% after that.

Rhea also gets better passive recovery, though she requires at least one dragon or beast on her team to do so, which isn't too hard.

Rhea gets a built-in 40% Moonbow/Luna on the first attack during every round of combat, whereas Edelgard gets Galeforce once per player phase, both on top of their actual Special skills. Both can have their actual Special skills permanently blocked with Pulse Smoke.

Edelgard gets Distant Counter, Special charge rate +1, and Guard, which allows her to counterattack against ranged units, run Bonfire over a 2-cooldown Special or a second Galeforce, and allows her to run a stronger Ideal skill in the A slot instead of a tier-4 Stance skill to get Guard.

 

Basically, Edelgard is more threatening than Rhea on player phase and Rhea is more threatening than Edelgard on enemy phase. Rhea's player phase still shouldn't be taken too lightly because even if she lacks access to Galeforce and Armored Stride, she still has an almost-Luna built into her attack. And Edelgard's enemy phase obviously shouldn't be take too lightly either due to her instant Bonfire and Distant Counter.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Ice Dragon

[Tybrosion]

Oh and in case anyone is wondering why Gustav got a new variant of his weapon, this is what the original version looked like:

"Grants Atk+3. If unit initiates combat and foe uses sword, lance, axe, dragonstone, or beast damage, grants Atk+6 during combat, and if unit initiates combat against a foe that can counter, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack."

So it was not only outdated, but its effects only worked on player phase (it doesn't even have "within two spaces of an ally" condition that Otr's weapon has).

[Xenomata]

6 hours ago, Mercakete said:

I was a little frustrated seeing Lilith because I feel like that's spoilers (for me personally; I'm aware that these fallen banners will pretty much always contain spoilers) since I haven't played Revelation yet

Well as long as you don't mind more spoilers,

Spoiler

 

that's not Revelations spoilers. Lilith pretty much has no bearing on the plot of Revelations, and in fact it's even the only path of the Fates trio that she isn't killed on.h

It is, rather, in reference to the Hidden Truths DLC, which reveals her as the child and servant of dragon Anankos, but decides to turn against them when human Anankos gives his life to protect her, leading her to become an Astral Dragon and eventually find her way to Corrin.

 

 

[DefyingFates]

7 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Holy moly. Okay, I admit I was a little frustrated seeing Lilith because I feel like that's spoilers (for me personally; I'm aware that these fallen banners will pretty much always contain spoilers) since I haven't played Revelation yet

Spoiler-free version: that isn't a Revelation spoiler thankfully enough. This is based on one of the prequel DLCs and is more a Fallen Dimitri situation. I hope that helps!

6 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Spoiler

This Ninian is a reference to Chapter 19 when she was mind-controlled by Nergal and summons a fire dragon through the gate. The name of her custom dance skill in Japanese is a direct reference to the line she says right before the illustration cut-in of the fire dragon coming out from the gate.

 

Oh, neat! Thank you very much for the explanation, Ice! It's a bit embarrassing that I completely forgot all about that...

6 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Basically, Edelgard is more threatening than Rhea on player phase and Rhea is more threatening than Edelgard on enemy phase. Rhea's player phase still shouldn't be taken too lightly because even if she lacks access to Galeforce and Armored Stride, she still has an almost-Luna built into her attack. And Edelgard's enemy phase obviously shouldn't be take too lightly either due to her instant Bonfire and Distant Counter.

Thank you again! And you're right, clearly I did get F! and B!Edelgards mixed up! (To think the latter is getting a refine this year...)

I think Edelgard is still going to be a bigger threat though, because of her inbuilt Distant Counter and Galeforce. Dragon killers are also more widespread than Beast ones, so Rhea has that against her too. I guess we'll see though. She could be really annoying if you doubled down on her tankiness...

[Sunwoo]

13 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Oof poor Tormod. He's the only member of the LEA who's still left out. Even his dad wasn't enough to make him tag along. I hope Muarim already being in doesn't decrease Tormod's chances.

I mean, he is still popular enough. He was more popular than Muarim or Vika, last I checked, so unless IS personally has a grudge against him we should expect him at some point ...

Also I didn't give enough of a shit about Lilith to realize ... well, anything about her really. I keep forgetting she's even a character in this game.

[XRay]

Lilith: Silent Broodling is a Null Follow-Up support unit. Rhea: Immaculate One with Quick Riposte will appreciate that support.

Ninian: Frozen Heart is good. Dual phase Breath status effect is nice. I do not think her movement+1 is super relevant though, since there are not any dragon nukes that are super relevant.

Gustav: Sovereign Slain seems like a better Otr in combat. Might be better to just double down on combat performance and run Lull Atk/Def instead since Trace will be less reliable over time with Canto Control out now.

Rhea: Immaculate One needs some extra help in my opinion, since she still wants to double. She would also appreciate Thórr providing Special cooldown charges for instant Icebergs, heal with Aether, or Pavise for more damage reduction. As an enemy, I hope she makes players consider building Sweepers more. Nanna: Beloved Princess would also probably just outright kill her.

Edited May 8, 2022 by XRay

[DefyingFates]

9 minutes ago, XRay said:

since there are not any dragon nukes that are super relevant.

We are getting Brave Tiki in a few months, and who knows: maybe we'll get another Rhea or other busted Dragon unit in the interim too?

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by DefyingFates

[Some Jerk]

Dragons with an advertisable Player Phase aren't a common trend right now, true, but there are a few. The noteworthy ones, somewhat ironically given Fallen Ninian's movement boost, are Nifl and Muspell, since one is a speed demon that spreads Anti-Counter and the other is an OKHO machine that spreads Fatal Smoke.

I want to say Fallen Lilith also counts, but that may or may not be relevant depending on where her Support Partner is.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Some Jerk

[DefyingFates]

9 minutes ago, Some Jerk said:

Dragons with an advertisable Player Phase aren't a common trend right now, true, but there are a few. The noteworthy ones, somewhat ironically given Fallen Ninian's movement boost, are Nifl and Muspell, since one is a speed demon that spreads Anti-Counter and the other is an OKHO machine that spreads Fatal Smoke.

I want to say Fallen Lilith also counts, but that may or may not be relevant depending on where her Support Partner is.

There's also the (kinda memed) Cav Sothis we may get at some point, who I forgot to mention earlier.

[XRay]

1 minute ago, DefyingFates said:

We are getting Brave Tiki in a few months, and who knows? Maybe we'll get another Rhea or other busted Dragon unit in the interim too?

I would not call them busted. Both infantry Rheas are fine dual phase units due to guaranteed follow-up attacks, but they lack other important combat effects that modern nukes have, such as true damage, Brave, Null Follow-Up, more reliable Special triggers, etc, and they generally run a combination of those effects to more reliably take out modern tanks. You can use Rheas as nukes on player phase of course, but they are not going to be doing much damage against properly built tanks on player phase, and it is probably better for the Rheas to rely on their enemy phase and have enemy phase foes initiate combat instead.

11 minutes ago, Some Jerk said:

Dragons with an advertisable Player Phase aren't a common trend right now, true, but there are a few. The noteworthy ones, somewhat ironically given Fallen Ninian's movement boost, are Nifl and Muspell, since one is a speed demon that spreads Anti-Counter and the other is an OKHO machine that spreads Fatal Smoke.

Nifl is pretty bottom of the barrel as a combat unit. She does not have any effect that helps her in combat. Plain old stat boosts (or debuffs in her case) on top of a player phase stat spread just is not going to cut it. Like at the bare minimum, nukes should have at least two effects like Slaying, Brave, Null Follow-Up, Null Special Disrupt, Special charge +1, Desperation, etc. to make them worth considering.

Múspell cannot double, and killing things in one hit is not reliable these days due to massive increase in bulk. And he needs to be near allies to make use of Domain of Flame, which makes him very difficult to use as a nuke since you often need nukes to go out there alone, so the only support you can rely on are the bonus buffs and status effects that your teammates gives you that you can take with you.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

17 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

May I ask how you predicted Ninian, please?

Mostly process of elimination from the remaining pool of characters and canon happenings in each game of the series. Ninian was one of the obvious choices based on that and based on which characters I reasonably perceived as an option. Plus, dragon. FEH loves dragons.

[Tybrosion]

33 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Mostly process of elimination from the remaining pool of characters and canon happenings in each game of the series. Ninian was one of the obvious choices based on that and based on which characters I reasonably perceived as an option. Plus, dragon. FEH loves dragons.

It also helped that Ninian's Japanese voice actress voiced a different recent-ish unit (Spring Maria), so that increased Ninian's odds of getting something soon. 

Rhea was also easy to predict since her Japanese voice actress has already shown up twice this year (Resplendent Deirdre and Niime).

[Some Jerk]

We have acquired datamines.

Banner Unit stats:

Spoiler

Lilith: 39-/40-/43/29/33 (184 BST)
Ninian: 45/27/40+/23/36 (171 BST)
Gustav: 40-/41+/25-/38/30- (174 BST)
Rhea: 46/43+/18-/40+/43- (190 BST)

Muarim:

Spoiler

Class: Blue Beast (Infantry)
Stats: 45/43-/40+/31-/22 (181 BST)
Skills: Wrath at 4*, Even Atk Wave at 5*

Weapon: Wild Tiger Fang
Grants Atk+3. At start of turn, inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-6 on foes within 4 spaces of unit through their next actions. At start of combat, if foe's HP ≥ 75%, grants Atk/Spd+6 to unit and neutralizes bonuses (from skills like Fortify, Rally, etc.) on foe during combat.
At start of turn 2, turn 4, and all later turns, unit transforms (otherwise, unit reverts). If unit transforms, grants Atk+2, deals +7 damage when Special triggers, and neutralizes effects that grant "Special cooldown charge +X" to foe or inflict "Special cooldown charge -X" on unit during combat, but after combat, if unit attacked, deals 5 damage to unit.

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Some Jerk