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LittEleven

FE3H lords as political leaders

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I don't think there's any value in comparisons to specific people. And the Edelgard = Trump comparisons are laughable, because their values couldn't be further unaligned.

 

That said, Edelgard is Authoritarian Left, Rhea is Authoritarian Right, Claude is Libertarian Left, and I guess Dimitri is Libertarian Right. That does explain why Edelgard and Claude have acknowledged commonalities in their goals, while Edelgard and Rhea couldn't be more hostile if they tried. Dimitri is the outlier because his story isn't focused on politics, but he is more aligned with maintaining the status quo than breaking it.

Edited by Fabulously Olivier

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10 hours ago, LittEleven said:

claude is bernie 

I thought Bernadetta was Bernie. She refers to herself in 3rd person like that for like half of her lines lol 😉

On topic: there's definitely politics in play with 3Hs lords and how they approach the same problem fundamentally clashes post-time skip.

How do you associate them to said irl politicians though? I think you have to go in a bit more context there. Not that I'm disagreeing, just curious.

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5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I don't think Edelgard's much of a populist actually. She's not particularly slimy nor does she seem deceitful as far as her ideology goes. I also don't see her as much of a strongman since her main goal is empowering the citizenry rather than hoard all the power for herself and a small collection of cronies. 

I mean the core of populism isn't about being deceitful for your ideology or slimy. Populism is largely about framing yourself and your policies as for the ordinary person, other with a rejection of elites often fit into it but not required. For example of just the names people have used, Trump is a rightwing populist and Sanders is a leftwing populist. Populism is a vehicle for how you get your ideas out rather than being indicative of much more in practice. Where Edelgard's whole thing is about leveling the playing field against the nobles and crested, which fundamentally is a populist framing of her ideas and goals.

Wrt being a strongman it could be argued more in my eyes but the main reason I say that is she still is heavily authoritarian with elements of meritocracy in her approach. So regardless of her potential intent, there is such a clear overlap in terms of strongman tendencies that I think its fairly accurate.

Edited by Pawn Lelouch

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49 minutes ago, Pawn Lelouch said:

I mean the core of populism isn't about being deceitful for your ideology or slimy.

At its core perhaps but in modern politics populism seems mostly a bunch of lies meant to cloak a politician's self interest into something noble they can defraud the electorate with for their own gain. And in fiction that's mostly how it seems to get represented. Meanwhile Edelgard seems to very sincerely believe in her ideals unlike video game populist Shido or PS4 Spiderman's Osborn.

Populism also really revolves around the populist investing heavily in a ''personal bond'' between ''the people'' and ''the leader''. A lot of it has to do with the leader charming(defrauding) ''the people'' which we don't really see Edelgard do. Its either her way or the high way with her not at all trying to sugar coat any of it. Edelgard claims to strive for the people's benefit and probably means it, but she never spends any time trying to pretend she's one of them or particularly close to them which is the most common populist tactic in the book.

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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With all the nuance in how media is written, a lot of the parallels we tend to see with real world politics generally correlates to what we want to see rather than what the writers were actually going for. But for god's sake, why do people arrive at the idea that JAPANESE RPGs are somehow informed by the US political climate? It's Persona 5 all over again. Do people think Japan doesn't have its own politicians, scandals, or ideological struggles as a modern democracy? 

And yes of course Edelgard is Trump in this cursed analogy. She was born into her power and influence. She runs a campaign of misinformation and conspiracy theory - exploiting modern skepticisms surrounding the rule of law and the way leaders are chosen. Justifies the tearing down of government institutions and entire livelihoods of the ruling classes with an "I know best" attitude like any political strongman. Is working for a foreign, underground, nuclear-equipped power with vague goals including the continuation of an ancient genocide. And says to your face that anybody who's not with her is against her. 

Edited by Zapp Branniglenn

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7 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

But for god's sake, why do people arrive at the idea that JAPANESE RPGs are somehow informed by the US political climate? 

Because this is the internet that you're talking  annnnnnnd

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

And says to your face that anybody who's not with her is against her. 

That's some terrible writing, right there.

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12 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

It's Persona 5 all over again. Do people think Japan doesn't have its own politicians, scandals, or ideological struggles as a modern democracy? 

In particular while Shido easily brings up images of Trump, Bolsonaro, Le Pen or whatnot the Japanese devs are on the record he's actually supposed to resemble Abe. I think in general Americans might be a wee bit quick in assuming everyone looks to America for inspiration or that the American scene is somehow unique compared to others and thus more suited to take inspiration from (This despite Trump being a famously late populist emerging decades after other countries had their own wacky populists). Though in Abe's case I think its fair to assume most people wouldn't have known enough about him to see the comparisons with Shido or even be aware he was controversial. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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It looks like this topic was on the silly side, but I'll just echo @Fabulously Olivier and say that Edelgard is Authoritarian Left.  More specifically, I have no idea if this is intentional, but there's a reason that Edelgard gets compared to Napoleon, and it's worth laying out the reasons every once in awhile, as I think that's definitely the closest political analogy IMO if we want to make one.

  • The church/state situation was similar.  The Gallic Church was semi-independent of Rome but basically a tool of the Old Aristocracy.  Napoleon was a French Republican, and the Republicans took out their frustrations on the Church very directly, what with all the famous things like the Cult of Reason, establishing a new secular calendar to avoid Saint's days, and taking the Church's stuff.  Edelgard is less interested in the Church of Seiros's wealth than the French Republicans were, but she is interested in their secrets (read: crest stones, draconic power, etc.), so close enough.
  • The aristocracy situation isn't a bad analogy to the situation of Crests, the source of the nobility in Fodlan.  Edelgard talks about wanting to sweep out the incompetent nobles (e.g. Caspar's brother) and promote commoners with talent, which is pretty much exactly what the Republican government did, suborning some of the old noble order (e.g. the nobles who work with Edelgard).  And it seemed to work pretty well in both cases, at least judging by military efficiency - before Byleth returns, the Empire seems to be doing pretty well in the war, able to threaten the rest of the continent.  And the French fight off everyone else pretty well...  at first.  (Not just military, too, most of conquered Europe ends up keeping Napoleon's changes to law & the civil service, implying they were pretty good changes.)
  • And of course part 2 to the above is "biting off more than you can chew", as France doesn't stop at merely beating proto-Italy, Austria, Prussia, etc., but decides to keep going to Russia.  And Edelgard does lose in the end despite a good start in 3/4 routes.  However, the power of the nobility is greatly damaged, as happens even in Dimitri's route.
  • Napoleon took power in a coup while he was exceptionally young for the era, which automatically sets him up to relate to young anime main characters sweeping away the crusty world of their elders.  He became a general in his mid-20s!  And Emperor in his 30s!  (Helped by the leaders of the old-guard French army being super-royalist and defecting or quitting, of course...)
  • And finally the great contradiction of why a Republic became an Empire.  Republicanism was just too important to trust to a Republic, so better have Napoleon solve everything personally.  He obviously still kept some democratic functioning going on below him, but he centralized power and ignored advisors who told him he was making Big Mistakes, very similar to Edelgard taking all power into herself in the name of equality, and potentially making mistakes as a result.

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Trump and Dimitri? Is it because both have silly blond hairstyles? Because I can't imagine Trump saying any of the things Dimitri does in his final conversation with Edelgard in the Bl route. 

Anyway I don't think there is much common ground between any of the three house leaders and popular politicians irl. Mostly because Fire Emblem doesn't go very deep in their politics, but also because many characters don't really check all the boxes. Rhea for example is both very Authoritarian and strictly religous which fits many modern right wing parties. But i'd say she is comes across as someone who believes the church/state should provide for its citizens. Being more involved with social programs, giving aid to disaster victims. 

But for fictional examples i'd say Edelgard has a lot of common ground with Gustadolph from Triangle strategy. Both want to break the status quo and both want to ensure that it is merrit and not religion or social status that determines your worth. So they want to give the people more oppurtunity then the ridig status quo provides, but both also seem to be a bit lacking in the compassion department. Edelgard isn't as sociopathic as Gustadolph about it, but she too thinks that if people fall it is because of their own failings. With her just basically just shrugging when Dimitri asks about the people that aren't strong enough for her world.

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On 5/12/2022 at 5:19 PM, Ampharos said:

jeralt is antonin scalia, i will not be taking questions at this time

This thread may be a doomed venture, but this one absolutely killed me.

Just like Kronya absolutely killed Jeralt.

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On 5/12/2022 at 2:57 PM, Zapp Branniglenn said:

With all the nuance in how media is written, a lot of the parallels we tend to see with real world politics generally correlates to what we want to see rather than what the writers were actually going for. But for god's sake, why do people arrive at the idea that JAPANESE RPGs are somehow informed by the US political climate? It's Persona 5 all over again. Do people think Japan doesn't have its own politicians, scandals, or ideological struggles as a modern democracy?

I strongly second what @Zapp Branniglenn says in his reply, I couldn't have written it better myself.

Trying to tie in American Politics with a Japanese video game is just a fruitless endeavor, really. I highly doubt that Intelligent Systems even cared about what was going on within America regarding politics up to Three Houses' release date. I'd say that they were more concerned about creating an enjoyable Fire Emblem game for both new and old fans alike, regardless of where they're from (Which is something game developers in general should prioritize anyways, whether it be Fire Emblem, Legend of Zelda, Mario, or otherwise).

It's fine if you want to talk about the political ideologies of the three lords within the in-game politics of Three Houses (like what @Fabulously Olivier was saying in their reply), but I feel that trying to compare Edelgard, Dimitri, and Claude to real life figures just doesn't work because the fictional characters within Three Houses were never meant to resemble anybody in real life. Well, besides Byleth, but their entire purpose is to serve as an outlet for the player to express themselves through, just like the rest of the "avatar" characters that the series has had. 

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Considering the difference between elections and the academy/war scenarios in three houses, I think it just wouldn't be that organic to see commentary/parody of american politics in a game like this.

However, I think Edelgard derives more from Chris Lightfellow of Suikoden III than any real life person I know of, though not that heavily from her, either. And she's still more of a Hardain than inspired by Chris.

Since Jeralt is Antonin Scalia, Rhea is RBG. Or Hanneman is Scalia and Manuela is RBG (RBG loved opera and even showed up in one IIRC).

At some point I thought Three Houses might make something of Three Kingdoms with the three lieges, but despite Koei's involvement, they either decided it would be too obvious to make something of that particular resource, or made it subtle enough that I didn't really notice it.

Edited by Original Johan Liebert

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FE3H is literally a game about contrasting values and leadership types, explored dually with the structure of an ancient and deeply organised institution. The parallels are undeniable. However, I would point out that the game is limited by the blinkers of its authors (horseshoe theory), and thus Edelgard's dual appeal towards the utter dregs of humanity and politically-inclined sapphic girls has nothing to do with her coded energies or intense fixation with Byleth, but instead her radicalism in a time of polarity and conflict. However, in times of polarity and conflict, such institutions often uplift themselves and hijack the energies of the youth via stealing the signifiers of their opposition, muddying the water, diluting the meaning of anything 'radical', and rendering the debate as one about aesthetics rather than meaning.

While it's true that Edelgard ultimately upholds the paradigm of the establishment she seeks to overcome, and the Black Eagles route fittingly ends with some ambiguity as to how successfully she will navigate the tension between power and emancipation, I would instead suggest that Hillary Clinton is better represented by the character of Rhea.

Edited by Priscilla

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On 5/12/2022 at 5:19 PM, Ampharos said:

jeralt is antonin scalia, i will not be taking questions at this time

You know this adds up tbh. Scalia was an originalist since it suited his interests and could bullshit whatever intentions he wanted into the text. Jeralt is an originalist since he was there when the documents were written and he actually knows the intent behind them.

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