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Let's talk about Metroid Prime 4 and Breath of the Wild 2


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So I've posted a similar thread to this one where I go over the possibility of a Metroid Prime 1-3 (or at least MP1) remaster and a port of the HD Zelda Wii U remasters on the Switch. If you haven't read it yet, I recommend you give it a read if you're curious about the possibility of such Switch ports. Here's a Link (no pun intended)Will Metroid Prime 1-3 and the Wii U Zelda remasters come to the Switch?

Now, there's no need to speculate on the possibility of these games releasing because they've already been confirmed by Nintendo themselves. Though both games have been delayed for better or worse, so we can only imagine what the final product will look like at the current moment. 

Metroid Prime 4's been through a development hell of sorts, with it being developed since 2017 but then restarting development sometime in 2019. There's been no gameplay trailers or any footage for the game. Only a title has been provided so far. Though I feel that they are putting these years of development into the game to good use. I'd rather wait patiently for a complete, working title over a rushed product any day of the week. I'm more surprised that we're getting a 4th game in the Metroid Prime series, since Metroid Prime 3: Corruption was supposed to be the end of the series, and its been over a decade since the last Prime game came out.

As for Breath of the Wild 2, the game's got some trailers showing off some gameplay that I'm rather interested in and it seems rather promising. The game was initially supposed to release sometime this year, but ended up being delayed to 2023. Not that I'm complaining, though. 2022's already got more games coming out than my wallet can handle, and the extra time for development will give Nintendo a chance to polish up the game and make it even better for when it does come out. I loved the first Breath of the Wild when it initially came out back in 2017, so I'm very excited to see that the game's going to be getting a sequel. Definitely pre-ordering this one when I get the chance.

But that's just my opinion on these two games. So, how do you feel about Metroid Prime 4 and Breath of the Wild 2? Are you also excited to play through these games when they come out? Or are you worried that they may not be up to snuff with the games preceding them?

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Despite being a Metroid fan for more than half my life, I wasn't terribly enthused by the announcement of Prime 4. I was already habitually making fun of Logo Reveal trailers by that point, and I think Prime 3 was a great game that warranted no followup - certainly not one over a decade later with none of the original talent. The titular Metroid Prime itself is also gone, for good this time. All the people that made these games were long gone and the sub series had really overshadowed the originals in terms of marketing. Even games made in house at nintendo had Metroid Prime in the name. I was much more interested in Fusion's sequel, or even a followup to Other M's gameplay, but nobody online seemed to share my frustrations. Now that we've got Metroid 5 I guess they have license to do whatever the heck they want. Really happy that we've got a team of talented, passionate developers working under the series creator again. That's what I'd want for Prime 4, but we don't even know the original situation that game started development, or if it factually ever started development. It could have been a Final Fantasy 7 Remake situation where the trailer was built before a single person was hired to the project. 

Who worked on the original Prime 4? Was it internally developed? They never told us, and never implied that series creator Sakamoto would be involved. What unique, interesting ideas were axed by the Big N in 2019? My biggest hope was that Prime 4 isn't a retread of Prime 1. Don't take us back to Tallon IV, don't have us scanning things constantly for progression, and build a combat system that stands out. Let us do things we can't do in 2D Metroid, or other FPS games for that matter. What state is Retro Studios even in now? And what were they working on in the four years between Tropical Freeze and 2019? Now that they had announced the restart, it has me worried that they're making this game out of obligation rather than out of any cohesive artistic vision. Especially when every Retro Studios hire we hear about are the biggest positions within the project. They're hiring people to come up with the ideas in the first place, and expecting everybody to get on the same page. 

As for BotW2, I'm significantly less interested. The first game's minimalist approach made for a hollow gameplay experience past the first few hours. Things I liked about Zelda were restripped and painted in the style of a dozen ubisoft games. Like a Ubisoft game, it wasn't actually bad, just unremarkable. A sequel's got a lot to correct and a lot to add before I'm willing to care. And if the goal was to reuse assets and the world from the first game, how is the game still in such a pre-alpha state? The fact that we don't even know its name is especially concerning. Elden Ring and Horizon Forbidden West are both games that began development the same year or sooner than BotW2 did. By now they're both out, so what's Nintendo's excuse? Can they hope to match the quality of those two games? Breath of the Wild is a Wii U game, ported to the switch, taking full advantage of neither system's hardware. Will its sequel be a Switch game ported to the Super Switch? And I can't believe I'm saying this, but is there hope for the old formulaic Zeldas? I wouldn't mind if we went back to that.

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3 hours ago, CyberZord said:

So, how do you feel about Metroid Prime 4 and Breath of the Wild 2? Are you also excited to play through these games when they come out? Or are you worried that they may not be up to snuff with the games preceding them?

I'm indifferent on MP4. I like the soundtracks of MP1 and 2, but Dread's scratching my Metroid itch for now.

I'm more excited about BotW 2, though also a little apprehensive about things like the possibility that Zelda's going to be sidelined for most of the game again and the probable return of Gerudo Town and its "no men allowed" law, which I absolutely despised.

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Metroid Prime was a fun enough series for what it was, but I was kind of happy that it was over and done with as I didn't like how it affected Metroid's lore, mainly in how it completely dismissed Metroids themselves as any sort of focal point for the plot and just turned them into regular old enemies that are everywhere. That and I can't see how they can really go anywhere new with Metroid Prime 4 without making things horrible contrived. Metroid Prime 3 goes to great lengths to really firmly establish it as the end of the elements that make Metroid Prime Metroid Prime. So, yeah, not hyped for it at all, probably will be a decent game, but they're going for pure brand recognition which doesn't entice me. If they were to reuse anything from Metroid Prime's verse I'd prefer it to be Metroid Prime Hunters 2. That was a fun idea held back quite a lot by the DS's controls not working too great for Metroid.

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7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Metroid Prime was a fun enough series for what it was, but I was kind of happy that it was over and done with as I didn't like how it affected Metroid's lore, mainly in how it completely dismissed Metroids themselves as any sort of focal point for the plot and just turned them into regular old enemies that are everywhere.

Regular Metroids, sure, but the titular Metroid Prime is the final boss of all three games and main villain of the trilogy as a whole.

I agree about how Metroid Prime 3 firmly established itself as the end of that storyline, so the only way I can really see the Prime series continuing would be by beginning a new storyline that has nothing to do with Phazon, resulting in the "Metroid Prime" title being a bit of an artifact title as it's no longer about the Metroid Prime.

 

Anyway, as someone who only got into the Metroid series fairly recently and played the Prime games for the first time early this year, I am looking forward to seeing what they decide to do with Prime 4. I'm hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst. If they made a game that utilized the best of all three prior games, that would be great. I thought Prime 1 was the best at exploration, Prime 2 had the best puzzles, and Prime 3 had the best action, and I liked how, in Prime 3, the ship was useful beyond just being a save point, and I think it would be cool to see the ship see greater use.

 

As for Breath of the Wild 2, I'm similarly hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. I'm definitely looking forward to the return of Ganondorf, and him returning as this ancient, mummified evil is an interesting new take on the character. The sky islands seem really cool, though it does leave me concerned that BOTW2 might become too big.

One thing that I was really hoping to see with BOTW2 was Zelda travelling together with Link and being useful. My personal favourite Zelda game is Spirit Tracks, which had Zelda actually accompany Link on his adventure and be a very useful (and playable) adventuring companion to Link, and I thought BOTW2 would be a great time to do something like that again. Another reason I wanted this was that BOTW ended on Link and Zelda finally reuniting and setting out together, so the last thing I want is for the sequel to open with a big, "Sike! They've been separated again and won't be reunited until the end of the game". One thing I can't stand is sequels that take a resolution from the prior story and undo it just so the sequel can repeat it, and it's something that past Zelda games have been guilty of: Wind Waker ended on Link and Tetra setting out together, and then Phantom Hourglass opened with Tetra getting kidnapped and needing to be rescued, then spending the rest of the game as a statue; what made them think that that was what anyone wanted to see after how Wind Waker ended?

But yeah; it looks like Link is travelling solo again; I really hope that Nintendo is hiding something clever and Zelda will reunite with Link fairly early in the game or something like that, but it does look like they're going for a "whoops! They're separated again" and I can't help but feel that that would be a waste of an opportunity.

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19 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

I'm indifferent on MP4. I like the soundtracks of MP1 and 2, but Dread's scratching my Metroid itch for now.

I'm more excited about BotW 2, though also a little apprehensive about things like the possibility that Zelda's going to be sidelined for most of the game again and the probable return of Gerudo Town and its "no men allowed" law, which I absolutely despised.

I'm playing through Metroid Prime 1 myself at the moment, and plan to get to 2 and 3 in due time before Metroid Prime 4 comes out. I also find myself fond of the music in Prime, hope Echoes and Corruption also provide some solid tracks. I can't help but notice that you didn't mention MP3. Were you not a fan of that game's soundtrack? Or did you just find them to be only decent compared to MP2 and MP1?

I can understand the whole "Zelda and Link being separated so Link can travel solo" issue, since it's been applied to almost every Zelda game released besides Spirit Tracks and Hyrule Warriors/AoC. I also hope that Zelda gets to travel with Link. Maybe Nintendo could incorporate a 2-player mode (allowing players to play as both Link and Zelda for the first time, or switch between the two in single player mode) for Breath of the Wild 2? It's just an idea, but I think it could be very fun to potentially play through the game with a second player.

I'm rather curious as to why you despised the "no men allowed" rule in Gerudo Town. To be fair to the game, the Gerudo people are predominantly female, with males only being born once a century, so a "no men" rule only really affects Link and any male outsiders not native to the Gerudo desert. I get that it's sexist, and I'd have preferred to let Link wear the Male Voe desert gear over the Female Vai desert gear when in the town, but it never really bothered me too much. You just have to switch out outfits for Link when going into the Gerudo Town, as it's the only place in the game that requires Link to change his attire. Since its a direct sequel to Breath of the Wild, I assume that every major town from the first game will be returning in the sequel, so I'd expect Gerudo Town to come back as well.

10 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

the only way I can really see the Prime series continuing would be by beginning a new storyline that has nothing to do with Phazon, resulting in the "Metroid Prime" title being a bit of an artifact title as it's no longer about the Metroid Prime.

I am looking forward to seeing what they decide to do with Prime 4. I'm hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst. If they made a game that utilized the best of all three prior games, that would be great. I thought Prime 1 was the best at exploration, Prime 2 had the best puzzles, and Prime 3 had the best action.

As for Breath of the Wild 2, I'm similarly hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. I'm definitely looking forward to the return of Ganondorf, and him returning as this ancient, mummified evil is an interesting new take on the character. The sky islands seem really cool, though it does leave me concerned that BOTW2 might become too big.

But yeah; it looks like Link is travelling solo again; I really hope that Nintendo is hiding something clever and Zelda will reunite with Link fairly early in the game or something like that, but it does look like they're going for a "whoops! They're separated again" and I can't help but feel that that would be a waste of an opportunity.

Nintendo's really put themselves in a rough place by announcing a 4th game here. On one hand, Metroid Prime 4 without "Metroid Prime" would kind of ruin what the games were about. They should've just called it something completely new if they wanted another FPS Metroid game. On the other hand, if they still include "Metroid Prime" somehow, it'll possibly ruin what Metroid Prime 3: Corruption did by ending off the series in a trilogy (which will eventually be a quadrilogy). 

The best parts of each Metroid Prime game is more down to a personal preference, really, but I can agree that if Nintendo can combine the best aspects of the three games and put them into the next entry, then it could turn out great for Metroid Prime 4. 

Breath of the Wild 2's "Sky islands" are an interesting addition to the game, though its giving me some serious Skyward Sword vibes, where Link had to travel between sky and air for the duration of the game. I'm not knocking it because I liked Skyward Sword, and I'm in favor of seeing the concept return. Now as for BOTW2 being too big for its own good, I won't deny the possibility of the map being bigger beyond reason, but I feel that BOTW1 had a great size of a map since the game was more focused on open world exploration compared to past entries. The same should apply to the sequel without feeling unnecessary. 

I discuss my thoughts on the Link and Zelda separation situation in my reply to @Lord_Brand, but to put it simply, it would be a nice change of pace to have Zelda assist Link on his adventure again like what we saw in Spirit Tracks.

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7 hours ago, CyberZord said:

I'm playing through Metroid Prime 1 myself at the moment, and plan to get to 2 and 3 in due time before Metroid Prime 4 comes out. I also find myself fond of the music in Prime, hope Echoes and Corruption also provide some solid tracks. I can't help but notice that you didn't mention MP3. Were you not a fan of that game's soundtrack? Or did you just find them to be only decent compared to MP2 and MP1?

Neither my brother nor I have yet to play through the game (even though we bought the trilogy for Wii), so I'm not really able to comment on it. I have heard though that it shifts away from exploration compared to the first two.

7 hours ago, CyberZord said:

I can understand the whole "Zelda and Link being separated so Link can travel solo" issue, since it's been applied to almost every Zelda game released besides Spirit Tracks and Hyrule Warriors/AoC. I also hope that Zelda gets to travel with Link. Maybe Nintendo could incorporate a 2-player mode (allowing players to play as both Link and Zelda for the first time, or switch between the two in single player mode) for Breath of the Wild 2? It's just an idea, but I think it could be very fun to potentially play through the game with a second player.

I'd be fine even if Zelda's simply an AI companion, I just want to see Link and Zelda finally explore Hyrule together. I did have an idea for playable segments involving Zelda, but the last time I shared that idea, a big argument started and I ended up getting harassed, so I'm not going to share that idea on this forum. All I'll say is I want Link and Zelda to become more of an adventure couple. Let Zelda be our companion who tells us about stuff and maybe even talks to people.

Actually, I'd suggested in the past that Zelda could have been the main playable character of BotW2 with Link as the companion, but the trailers we've gotten suggest that certainly isn't the case. However, I think there is potential for Zelda to get her own playable story parallel to Link's, or for the game to allow us to switch between Link and Zelda.

7 hours ago, CyberZord said:

I'm rather curious as to why you despised the "no men allowed" rule in Gerudo Town. To be fair to the game, the Gerudo people are predominantly female, with males only being born once a century, so a "no men" rule only really affects Link and any male outsiders not native to the Gerudo desert. I get that it's sexist, and I'd have preferred to let Link wear the Male Voe desert gear over the Female Vai desert gear when in the town, but it never really bothered me too much. You just have to switch out outfits for Link when going into the Gerudo Town, as it's the only place in the game that requires Link to change his attire. Since its a direct sequel to Breath of the Wild, I assume that every major town from the first game will be returning in the sequel, so I'd expect Gerudo Town to come back as well.

For starters, yes, it is sexist. And if sexism against women is unacceptable, so is sexism against men (and no, I'm not open to discussing political matters; this isn't the place for it, and any PMs trying to start something will be reported to the mods and pointedly ignored). It's also incredibly stupid seeing as they need men from other tribes to reproduce; last thing they should be doing is discouraging men from visiting their home town. One of the Gerudo mentions that the younger vai don't mind because it gives them "an excuse to leave town". What, the sweltering heat and scarce water didn't do that already? Farore's sake, if I was a man living in BotW Hyrule, the Gerudo would be at the bottom of my list as far as prospective girlfriends go, next to the Rito (I'm not into bird people). I'd take a Hylian, Zora, or Sheikah girl any day.

Then there's the fact that, yes, it's annoying having to switch into weak armor every time I want to enter the town, even if it's just to buy something. The fact that it's the only town in the game to require doing so just makes it worse. At least if the other towns for some reason required changing clothing it wouldn't make Gerudo Town stand out so much. Heck, Goron City is much more navigable with the Flamebreak Armor, yet I don't mind switching into that as much because it's actually worth a damn in a fight and it's not like the Gorons are forcing us to wear it if we want to enter their city - in fact, they made it as a courtesy to help outsiders survive the volcanic heat of their town and surrounding environment. And really, you'll want to switch into the Zora and Snowquill sets when you visit Zora's Domain and Rito Village respectively simply because they're the most practical sets of gear to wear in those areas. But for Gerudo Town, we already have a set of gear ideal for the desert: Desert Voe Armor.

On top of that, I found it extremely grating that the game pushes the whole crossdressing thing down our throats. Not everyone is comfortable with crossdressing, you know? I'd have preferred if crossdressing was something players could do for fun rather than being necessary in order to access one of the Divine Beasts. Not to mention, if femboy fans got to have Link wearing the midriff-revealing belly dancer outfit, why couldn't other fans get to see Zelda wear something similar during memories set in Gerudo Desert? At least then it would make things more even! For that matter, it really chafes me when Urbosa suggests Link wear the outfit for Zelda sometime.

Just...gods,  Gerudo Town is my second-most hated thing about BotW after Revali (arguably moreso since we only have to put up with him in a handful of cutscenes). And as someone who waited a long time for the Gerudo to make a proper return, that makes the whole ordeal all the more bitter for me. In OoT, they were one of my favorite tribes, but in BotW, they became one of my least favorite. I really hope Nintendo's caught some major flak over the whole deal, and I hope BotW2 does something to fix the issue. If not, I think it'll be time to start a major ****storm across the net just to make sure they get the message.

I've gone so far as to propose a mod to the game that removes all traces of the "no men" law, including disabling or even deleting the detection zone that causes you to get kicked out as well as altering or removing every piece of dialogue that alludes to it. Furthermore, I've thought of actually adding more content to the game such as voe husbands living with some of the Gerudo as well as maybe even a matchmaking sidequest. I also think one day I'll design my own BotW-inspired game; at least then I'll have total creative control and can do what I want with my setting and characters. "Inspired IPs" are becoming pretty commonplace nowadays, which tells me fans are growing increasingly discontent with the way the old guard have been handling their IPs.

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8 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Neither my brother nor I have yet to play through the game (even though we bought the trilogy for Wii), so I'm not really able to comment on it. I have heard though that it shifts away from exploration compared to the first two.

There is definitely still exploration in Metroid Prime 3; it's just divided across several planets and you use the ship to go to each one. There is a greater emphasis on action and being, for lack of a better word, cinematic (but don't worry; it isn't like Other M), but exploration is still there.

 

9 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

All I'll say is I want Link and Zelda to become more of an adventure couple. Let Zelda be our companion who tells us about stuff and maybe even talks to people.

Having Zelda be the one who speaks to NPCs would actually be really cool. Another thing I could see Zelda offering in terms of gameplay is her sealing magic: at the end of BOTW, she said that her sealing magic had greatly weakened, but it was still there; that magic could be used for combat and for puzzle-solving.

 

12 hours ago, CyberZord said:

I'm playing through Metroid Prime 1 myself at the moment, and plan to get to 2 and 3 in due time before Metroid Prime 4 comes out. I also find myself fond of the music in Prime, hope Echoes and Corruption also provide some solid tracks. I can't help but notice that you didn't mention MP3. Were you not a fan of that game's soundtrack? Or did you just find them to be only decent compared to MP2 and MP1?

I have played all three games, so I can say that MP3's soundtrack is very good; it is definitely the equal of the first two games. But then again, I'm part of the minority that prefers Prime 3 overall compared to Prime 2 (though I think Prime 1 is the best of the trilogy).

 

12 hours ago, CyberZord said:

Nintendo's really put themselves in a rough place by announcing a 4th game here. On one hand, Metroid Prime 4 without "Metroid Prime" would kind of ruin what the games were about. They should've just called it something completely new if they wanted another FPS Metroid game. On the other hand, if they still include "Metroid Prime" somehow, it'll possibly ruin what Metroid Prime 3: Corruption did by ending off the series in a trilogy (which will eventually be a quadrilogy). 

The best parts of each Metroid Prime game is more down to a personal preference, really, but I can agree that if Nintendo can combine the best aspects of the three games and put them into the next entry, then it could turn out great for Metroid Prime 4. 

To be fair to the former idea, artifact titles are nothing new to games, and I can see the obvious reason to call an FPS Metroid game a Metroid Prime game even if it doesn't have Metroid Prime in it; people recognize the title; they see "Metroid Prime" and think of an FPS Metroid game.

Yeah; the best parts of each Prime game is definitely more down to preference, especially given that 2 and 3 are a bit divisive.

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On 5/16/2022 at 8:30 AM, vanguard333 said:

There is definitely still exploration in Metroid Prime 3; it's just divided across several planets and you use the ship to go to each one. There is a greater emphasis on action and being, for lack of a better word, cinematic (but don't worry; it isn't like Other M), but exploration is still there.

Yeah, I remember hearing about the multiple planets. Which does sound like an intriguing idea, the only trouble being that you could end up having to repeatedly travel between different planets to progress as you might need an upgrade found on Planet A to progress on Planet B. How does MP3 handle that?

On 5/16/2022 at 8:30 AM, vanguard333 said:

Having Zelda be the one who speaks to NPCs would actually be really cool. Another thing I could see Zelda offering in terms of gameplay is her sealing magic: at the end of BOTW, she said that her sealing magic had greatly weakened, but it was still there; that magic could be used for combat and for puzzle-solving.

I would love to see Zelda take on the role of mage. Link can handle tools and weapons while Zelda handles magic. Or in the case of BotW, the Sheikah Slate. Really, I love the idea that Link could be more combat focused and Zelda more focused on solving puzzles and serving utility. Of course Zelda being able to help Link out in combat would be nice too, especially since she has in past games.

And who knows, maybe BotW2 will allow Link and Zelda to reunite midway through rather than wait until the end of the game.

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4 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Yeah, I remember hearing about the multiple planets. Which does sound like an intriguing idea, the only trouble being that you could end up having to repeatedly travel between different planets to progress as you might need an upgrade found on Planet A to progress on Planet B. How does MP3 handle that?

MP3 mainly handles that by making it that there are multiple landing spots on each planet, as well as making the time spent finding the upgrade on planet A usually substantial enough that hopping between planets doesn't feel tedious. Basically, it's a lot like the elevators/trains connecting different areas in other Metroid games. Honestly, I never really found travelling between planets to ever get tedious or tiring. You don't even have to return to where you left your ship; if a different landing spot is closer to you, you can go there and have the ship come to you.

 

4 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

I would love to see Zelda take on the role of mage. Link can handle tools and weapons while Zelda handles magic. Or in the case of BotW, the Sheikah Slate. Really, I love the idea that Link could be more combat focused and Zelda more focused on solving puzzles and serving utility. Of course Zelda being able to help Link out in combat would be nice too, especially since she has in past games.

And who knows, maybe BotW2 will allow Link and Zelda to reunite midway through rather than wait until the end of the game.

Yeah; that would be really cool, especially if she can also help out in combat.

I hope you're right; I hope it is the case that they reunite midway through the game.

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On 5/15/2022 at 11:54 PM, Lord_Brand said:

Just...gods,  Gerudo Town is my second-most hated thing about BotW after Revali

@Lord_Brand I'll be shortening this quote a good bit just so my reply doesn't end up being super long, but I'll reply to a good bit of points that you made in your original reply. 

Each main town from Rito to Goron, Zora and Gerudo all have their own special armor that Link can wear which is best suited for the region it's obtained in. Outside of Gerudo Town, not one of these locations requires you to wear said special armor in order to explore the region. It's more of a convenience, and the fact that it's optional is actually rather nice, but the player will most likely prefer to wear the armor over Link's Champion gear anyways because of the benefits that it gives for its intended region. The Rito's snow gear helps Link stay warm when exploring the cold mountains past the Rito village, the Goron's Flamebreak armor prevents Link from burning to a crisp without the help of those flame-resistant potions on Death Mountain, the Zora's water gear improves Link's swimming and I think it also gave him the ability to climb up waterfalls, and the Gerudo's Desert Voe gear makes traveling through the desert on foot far easier. Unlike the four armor sets that I mentioned, the Desert Vai gear is rather useless by comparison. The only reason it really exists is to that Link can get into Gerudo Town without any trouble, given that its an all female town. Besides that, the Vai gear is rather weak, so using it outside of Gerudo Town is completely pointless when Link's got far stronger armor to use instead. 

I love Breath of the Wild to death because it provided a big open world with various ways to go about exploring it and all of the new mechanics that it added (it really redefined the Zelda series in my eyes), plus, it was one of my first Switch games all the way back in 2017. The only things I didn't really like were the breakable Master Sword (considering how iconic the weapon is in the series, I don't understand why it has to break, even if the game implemented a breakable weapons mechanic akin to Fire Emblem games), the Divine Beast dungeons (I feel that they're rather bland compared to the rest of the Zelda series' dungeons), and the entirety of Age of Calamity ruining the universe story-wise by deciding to go with some non-canon perfect ending bullshit (Yeah, I REALLY didn't like Age of Calamity after finding that out. Even made a thread voicing my concerns about Three Hopes in the FEW:TH forum). Well, at least Breath of the Wild 2 is a true follow-up to Breath of the Wild. I'm hoping that it proves to be a better game with added improvements upon the first game that make it a truly great sequel. Looks good so far, but only time will tell when the game officially comes out next year in 2023. 

On 5/16/2022 at 9:30 AM, vanguard333 said:

There is definitely still exploration in Metroid Prime 3; it's just divided across several planets and you use the ship to go to each one. There is a greater emphasis on action and being, for lack of a better word, cinematic (but don't worry; it isn't like Other M), but exploration is still there.

I'm part of the minority that prefers Prime 3 overall compared to Prime 2 (though I think Prime 1 is the best of the trilogy).

Yeah; the best parts of each Prime game is definitely more down to preference, especially given that 2 and 3 are a bit divisive.

@vanguard333 At least the ship becomes more useful in Metroid Prime 3, since it's just a glorified save point + ammo refill in Metroid Prime 1 and Metroid Prime 2. I really like the atmosphere and locations on Tallon IV in Prime. I also really like the concept of switching between Light and Dark versions of a planet in Echoes, though I haven't gotten to it yet, so I'm not sure how well that concept is executed. I hope that dividing the exploration across multiple planets doesn't hurt the atmosphere of Corruption or take away too much from it, since I had a fun time journeying through the various regions of Tallon IV. Though I'd be lying if I said that Prime 1 didn't piss me off at points (Thardus, the long stretch to that 2nd damn save point in the Phazon Mines, and low health drops in the late-game just to name a few). Overall, I still liked playing Prime 1 and hope to enjoy its sequels as much or more so than the first game. I've only heard negative things about Other M, so I don't generally think it's a Metroid game worth playing, but how do you feel about the game?

You prefer Prime 3 to Prime 2? That's an interesting statement. Could you go over why exactly you believe that, and also include why you think Prime 1's the best of the three? Of course, please only include non-spoilery things because I haven't played MP2 or MP3 yet, though I plan to start on 2 after finishing 1 (Very close to finishing it, just have to get that one last artifact piece, open a can of whoop-ass on Ridley, and take out Metroid Prime until I get to Echoes). 

I haven't really read into Metroid Prime 2: Echoes and Metroid Prime 3: Corruption so that I can avoid spoilers for games released over a decade ago. Could you perhaps explain why 2 and 3 are the divisive games in the series? 

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7 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

MP3 mainly handles that by making it that there are multiple landing spots on each planet, as well as making the time spent finding the upgrade on planet A usually substantial enough that hopping between planets doesn't feel tedious. Basically, it's a lot like the elevators/trains connecting different areas in other Metroid games. Honestly, I never really found travelling between planets to ever get tedious or tiring. You don't even have to return to where you left your ship; if a different landing spot is closer to you, you can go there and have the ship come to you.

Okay, that does sound rather convenient. Hope one of these days we can get around to finally playing it. Maybe they'll rerelease the trilogy on Switch in anticipation of MP4?

44 minutes ago, CyberZord said:

@Lord_Brand I'll be shortening this quote a good bit just so my reply doesn't end up being super long, but I'll reply to a good bit of points that you made in your original reply. 

Each main town from Rito to Goron, Zora and Gerudo all have their own special armor that Link can wear which is best suited for the region it's obtained in. Outside of Gerudo Town, not one of these locations requires you to wear said special armor in order to explore the region. It's more of a convenience, and the fact that it's optional is actually rather nice, but the player will most likely prefer to wear the armor over Link's Champion gear anyways because of the benefits that it gives for its intended region. The Rito's snow gear helps Link stay warm when exploring the cold mountains past the Rito village, the Goron's Flamebreak armor prevents Link from burning to a crisp without the help of those flame-resistant potions on Death Mountain, the Zora's water gear improves Link's swimming and I think it also gave him the ability to climb up waterfalls, and the Gerudo's Desert Voe gear makes traveling through the desert on foot far easier. Unlike the four armor sets that I mentioned, the Desert Vai gear is rather useless by comparison. The only reason it really exists is to that Link can get into Gerudo Town without any trouble, given that its an all female town. Besides that, the Vai gear is rather weak, so using it outside of Gerudo Town is completely pointless when Link's got far stronger armor to use instead. 

I love Breath of the Wild to death because it provided a big open world with various ways to go about exploring it and all of the new mechanics that it added (it really redefined the Zelda series in my eyes), plus, it was one of my first Switch games all the way back in 2017. The only things I didn't really like were the breakable Master Sword (considering how iconic the weapon is in the series, I don't understand why it has to break, even if the game implemented a breakable weapons mechanic akin to Fire Emblem games), the Divine Beast dungeons (I feel that they're rather bland compared to the rest of the Zelda series' dungeons), and the entirety of Age of Calamity ruining the universe story-wise by deciding to go with some non-canon perfect ending bullshit (Yeah, I REALLY didn't like Age of Calamity after finding that out. Even made a thread voicing my concerns about Three Hopes in the FEW:TH forum). Well, at least Breath of the Wild 2 is a true follow-up to Breath of the Wild. I'm hoping that it proves to be a better game with added improvements upon the first game that make it a truly great sequel. Looks good so far, but only time will tell when the game officially comes out next year in 2023. 

I did point out the fact each other town has an associated set of armor that you'll want to wear in the general neighborhood as it protects you from the harmful effects of the environment (or in the case of Zora's Domain, makes getting around a heck of a lot easier thanks to improved swimming and the ability to climb waterfalls). All four sets have defense values good enough that you'll still want to wear them in combat, and three of them provide elemental resistances to boot making them actually better than the armor with higher defense values in some cases. So then, why did they feel the need to force the Gerudo clothing just to enter the dang town?

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot I like about BotW. Had they done things differently, it would probably have been my favorite game in the series to date. As is, BotW is about 75% stuff I like, 15% stuff I would like that's missing, and 10% stuff I don't like and would rather change or remove. Thus, I can't honestly call it my favorite Zelda game of all time. But I like enough of it that I'm willing to count it alongside Ocarina of Time, A Link to the Past, and the Oracles as my favorite Zelda games. The fact I like so much of the game only makes those parts I don't like all the more egregious.

As far as breakable weapons go, no weapon is completely irreplacable so I don't mind it. My main issues are that there are few shops that actually sell weapons (one, to be precise: Kilton's Fang and Bone), there's no crafting system despite the game being set up perfectly for one (unless you count the blacksmiths being able to rebuild the Champion weapons), and the weapon curve is ridiculously lopsided such that you'll likely find Royal weapons well before the comparatively much weaker Rito and Gerudo weapons (never mind the Goron weapons which hit harder than just about anything that isn't Royal). And once you do find the Master Sword, complacency syndrome hits hard as you start to prefer using that to cut down trees and smash rocks despite the game offering weapons designed for those very purposes: axes and hammers. Once you fully upgrade the Sword so it always has a power of 60, it quickly becomes your primary weapon for anything short of a Lynel (which allows you to bypass the durability issue with a quicktime action that doesn't consume weapon durability).

For the dungeons, I'll concur that there's less variety compared to past Zelda games, though the prospect of exploring large mechanical beasts was itself quite novel. I'd have liked to see some "throwback" dungeons, like Ruins based on the dungeons from the original Zelda or the three Pendant dungeons from ALttP. The Temple of Time appeared in some form, so it'd have been nice to see the Sage Temples as well.

I haven't finished playing through Age of Calamity with my bro yet, but I'll say that I'm actually relieved that the game offers an alternative ending; I would have hated going through the downfall of the kingdom and its champions which we already know about thanks to BotW itself, especially since we spend a good amount of time building those characters up. Not to mention I feel BotW's post apocalyptic setting ultimately hurt the potential it had as an open world game; I wanted to explore Hyrule during its heyday, not at its lowest point since TWW. But I think I would have made the "good ending" optional rather than mandatory. (I remember how much pushback I got over at ZU thanks to my suggestion of a good ending as an alternative to the presumed canon bad ending, and come to find out the good ending ended up being the ending. A small victory for me, I guess?)

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43 minutes ago, CyberZord said:

At least the ship becomes more useful in Metroid Prime 3, since it's just a glorified save point + ammo refill in Metroid Prime 1 and Metroid Prime 2. I really like the atmosphere and locations on Tallon IV in Prime. I also really like the concept of switching between Light and Dark versions of a planet in Echoes, though I haven't gotten to it yet, so I'm not sure how well that concept is executed. I hope that dividing the exploration across multiple planets doesn't hurt the atmosphere of Corruption or take away too much from it, since I had a fun time journeying through the various regions of Tallon IV.

Though I'd be lying if I said that Prime 1 didn't piss me off at points (Thardus, the long stretch to that 2nd damn save point in the Phazon Mines, and low health drops in the late-game just to name a few). Overall, I still liked playing Prime 1 and hope to enjoy its sequels as much or more so than the first game.

I've only heard negative things about Other M, so I don't generally think it's a Metroid game worth playing, but how do you feel about the game?

You prefer Prime 3 to Prime 2? That's an interesting statement. Could you go over why exactly you believe that, and also include why you think Prime 1's the best of the three? Of course, please only include non-spoilery things because I haven't played MP2 or MP3 yet, though I plan to start on 2 after finishing 1 (Very close to finishing it, just have to get that one last artifact piece, open a can of whoop-ass on Ridley, and take out Metroid Prime until I get to Echoes). 

I haven't really read into Metroid Prime 2: Echoes and Metroid Prime 3: Corruption so that I can avoid spoilers for games released over a decade ago. Could you perhaps explain why 2 and 3 are the divisive games in the series? 

Yeah; the ship being more useful was definitely something I liked about Prime 3. In most Metroid games, the ship being a save point is justified by most of the exploration happening underground or in a space station, but the Prime games tend to have large outdoor sections, so it does make sense to have the ship be more useful, and it does not disappoint. In terms of atmosphere, Prime 3 tries to be, for lack of a better word, "epic" than Prime 1 or 2. 1 and 2 try to go for a more typical Metroidvania atmosphere, but with 3 taking place during the final conflict between the Federation and the Phazon-corrupted Space Pirates, it tries to go for an atmosphere befitting Samus taking on a vital role in an epic conflict between good and evil, so dividing the exploration between multiple planets doesn't harm the atmosphere at all. Plus, it allows for a great variety of cool locations with plenty of atmosphere to them. 

Funny enough, I didn't mind Thardus, but I really disliked the Omega Pirate; that was a terrible boss fight.

I haven't played Other M either. I've only played the Prime Trilogy, Super Metroid, and Metroid Dread. But I've only heard negative things about it as well.

Funny enough, I made a thread a few months back where I went over everything I liked and disliked about the trilogy. I would simply copy what I said there, but you asked for no spoilers, and it has a lot of spoilers. I will say that choosing between Prime 2 and Prime 3 largely comes down to personal preference; both try to be different (Prime 2 with its light world & dark world, Prime 3 with trying to be a more epic conflict), and I prefer what Prime 3 did in execution. That said, two massive strikes against Prime 2 that have nothing to do with its different approach are that there are some stretches between save points that are even longer and more excruciating than the one in the Phazon Mines, and there's a key hunt at the end of the game that's far, far worse than the artifact hunt in Prime 1.

It's kind-of hard for me to explain why they're divisive, especially since I only started playing the Metroid games last year. What I do know is that a lot of the debate is about stuff like which is the better sequel, whether or not either of them is as good as Prime 1, etc.

 

43 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

Okay, that does sound rather convenient. Hope one of these days we can get around to finally playing it. Maybe they'll rerelease the trilogy on Switch in anticipation of MP4?

Yeah; it is convenient. As for re-releasing the trilogy on Switch, the main obstacle I would see with that is that Prime 3 heavily depends on the Wii pointer, and while most games ported to Switch are able to easily replace the pointer controls with gyro controls, it's never as fast or precise as the pointer and it loses calibration.

 

47 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

For the dungeons, I'll concur that there's less variety compared to past Zelda games, though the prospect of exploring large mechanical beasts was itself quite novel.

I haven't finished playing through Age of Calamity with my bro yet, but I'll say that I'm actually relieved that the game offers an alternative ending; I would have hated going through the downfall of the kingdom and its champions which we already know about thanks to BotW itself, especially since we spend a good amount of time building those characters up. Not to mention I feel BotW's post apocalyptic setting ultimately hurt the potential it had as an open world game; I wanted to explore Hyrule during its heyday, not at its lowest point since TWW. But I think I would have made the "good ending" optional rather than mandatory. (I remember how much pushback I got over at ZU thanks to my suggestion of a good ending as an alternative to the presumed canon bad ending, and come to find out the good ending ended up being the ending. A small victory for me, I guess?)

I agree that exploring the divine beasts was quite novel. Utilizing their mechanisms was interesting and I particularly liked how you could sometimes look outside and see Hyrule, really making them feel like part of the world in a way that's very rare for Zelda dungeons.

As for Age of Calamity, honestly, having two campaigns: one that followed the actual events, and one that followed an alternate timeline, would have been a good idea. In fact, I'm pretty sure there was a Dynasty Warriors game that did something like that: I'm certain that there was a Dynasty Warriors game set during certain historical events and there was one campaign where events played out as they did, and an alternate campaign where the characters got to survive, so it really baffles me that Age of Calamity decided to only go with an alternate timeline where everyone got to live.

Honestly, I would've loved going through the downfall of the kingdom and its champions; there's a difference between knowing about events thanks to flashbacks & journal entries and actually experiencing those events. Imagine a mission where you play as Link and have to protect Zelda from corrupted guardians while taking her from place-to-place, ending at the field outside Fort Hateno, where the mission changes to just "protect Zelda": you fight an endless horde of guardians, and you "win" if Link runs out of health before Zelda does. Imagine an epic final boss fight between Zelda and Calamity Ganon that ends with Zelda sealing away the Calamity for 100 years. I wanted to experience stuff like that. Plus, it would've been the perfect opportunity to expand upon things and give us more information as to what happened.

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4 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Yeah; the ship being more useful was definitely something I liked about Prime 3. In most Metroid games, the ship being a save point is justified by most of the exploration happening underground or in a space station, but the Prime games tend to have large outdoor sections, so it does make sense to have the ship be more useful, and it does not disappoint. In terms of atmosphere, Prime 3 tries to be, for lack of a better word, "epic" than Prime 1 or 2. 1 and 2 try to go for a more typical Metroidvania atmosphere, but with 3 taking place during the final conflict between the Federation and the Phazon-corrupted Space Pirates, it tries to go for an atmosphere befitting Samus taking on a vital role in an epic conflict between good and evil, so dividing the exploration between multiple planets doesn't harm the atmosphere at all. Plus, it allows for a great variety of cool locations with plenty of atmosphere to them. 

Honestly I don't think it'd be a terrible idea to implement Metroid Prime 3's ship mechanics into a 2D game. Yeah, the 2D games are mostly underground, but working in outdoor sections into the map wouldn't really be that difficult. In fact, Dread does have several outdoor sections where you can see the sky despite being far below the top of the map, course even visiting the ship in Dread was impossible due to the plot they wanted to go with, but generally speaking a 2D Metroid could implement the ship without it being too contrived.

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3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Honestly I don't think it'd be a terrible idea to implement Metroid Prime 3's ship mechanics into a 2D game. Yeah, the 2D games are mostly underground, but working in outdoor sections into the map wouldn't really be that difficult. In fact, Dread does have several outdoor sections where you can see the sky despite being far below the top of the map, course even visiting the ship in Dread was impossible due to the plot they wanted to go with, but generally speaking a 2D Metroid could implement the ship without it being too contrived.

Implementing the ship mechanics in a 2D game could be really cool, or at least the transportation would be cool. The ship missiles and ship grapple would probably be hard to implement in a 2D game, but I could definitely see the ship be used as a method of transport in a 2D Metroid.

By the way, where do you stand in terms of the Prime trilogy (which would you say is the best, which would you say is the worst, etc.)?

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1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

Implementing the ship mechanics in a 2D game could be really cool, or at least the transportation would be cool. The ship missiles and ship grapple would probably be hard to implement in a 2D game, but I could definitely see the ship be used as a method of transport in a 2D Metroid.

Even the ships and the missiles could work. It would just need to I voice navigating to a specific position where you can use them to clear an obstacle. Or at the very least it cpuld br used in a cutscene at the end of a boss fight where the boss tears apart the ceiling and then Samus finishes it off with her ship.

Quote

By the way, where do you stand in terms of the Prime trilogy (which would you say is the best, which would you say is the worst, etc.)?

I've only played each of them once and all at once on the Wii, so it colours my perception but over all I liked Metroid Prime the best for feeling the most like a traditional Metroid game. Echoes and Corruption I like about the same (put Hunters on the list of games I wish I could like more). Echoes had a fun atmosphere and all, I'm not really sure what was lacking in it, as I said, it might just be that I had just played Prime 1 so inundation of the same sort of stuff. Corruption varied things up in a nice way and, even though I don't really like Prime's plot for reasons stated above, I did appreciate a more front and centre narrative which made Samus feel like she was working with people while not getting in the way of traditional Metroid. It also had the best "Artifact hunt" of the three of them (Echoes had the worst), the battery cells were easy to find and felt creative to use as they slowly opened up different portions of a map you kept going back to making it feel like you're exploding, rather than "you're at the final boss! Lol, no, go aimlessly explore the map until you find  these random items."

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15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Even the ships and the missiles could work. It would just need to I voice navigating to a specific position where you can use them to clear an obstacle. Or at the very least it cpuld br used in a cutscene at the end of a boss fight where the boss tears apart the ceiling and then Samus finishes it off with her ship.

I've only played each of them once and all at once on the Wii, so it colours my perception but over all I liked Metroid Prime the best for feeling the most like a traditional Metroid game. Echoes and Corruption I like about the same (put Hunters on the list of games I wish I could like more). Echoes had a fun atmosphere and all, I'm not really sire what was lacking in it, as I said, it might just be that I had just played Prime 1 so inundation of the same sort of stuff. Corruption varied things up in a nice way and, even though I don't really like Prince's plot for reasons stated above, I did appreciate a more front and centre narrative which made Samus feel like she was working with people while not getting in the way of traditional Metroid. It also had the best "Artifact hunt" of the three of them (Echoes had the worst), the battery cells were easy to find and felt creative to use as they slowly opened up different portions of a map you kept going back to making it feel like you're exploding, rather than "you're at the final boss! Lol, no, go aimlessly explore the map until you find  these random items."

Perhaps that could work.

I see. I agree that 3 definitely had the best artifact hunt and 2 had the worst.

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8 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

As for Age of Calamity, honestly, having two campaigns: one that followed the actual events, and one that followed an alternate timeline, would have been a good idea. In fact, I'm pretty sure there was a Dynasty Warriors game that did something like that: I'm certain that there was a Dynasty Warriors game set during certain historical events and there was one campaign where events played out as they did, and an alternate campaign where the characters got to survive, so it really baffles me that Age of Calamity decided to only go with an alternate timeline where everyone got to live.

Honestly, I would've loved going through the downfall of the kingdom and its champions; there's a difference between knowing about events thanks to flashbacks & journal entries and actually experiencing those events. Imagine a mission where you play as Link and have to protect Zelda from corrupted guardians while taking her from place-to-place, ending at the field outside Fort Hateno, where the mission changes to just "protect Zelda": you fight an endless horde of guardians, and you "win" if Link runs out of health before Zelda does. Imagine an epic final boss fight between Zelda and Calamity Ganon that ends with Zelda sealing away the Calamity for 100 years. I wanted to experience stuff like that. Plus, it would've been the perfect opportunity to expand upon things and give us more information as to what happened.

That's why having an option for both paths would have been ideal, so players could experience whichever ending they'd prefer. For some reason, whenever I tried to promote that mindset at ZU - "We can both have what we want!" - I always got shot down by somebody, as if it was somehow a sin for two people who want different things to both get those things. It's almost like people there had this mentality of "Well I don't get what I want unless my opponents don't get what they want". I will never understand why someone would apply that mindset to a video game series.

I was actually among those who speculated that the game's final mission would consist of you playing Zelda using her powers to just annihilate Ganon's forces before taking on the big baddie himself. You'd be invincible and unable to lose.

I speculate that AoC may have created another timeline split, not unlike OoT. The Child and Adult timelines happened because Zelda sent Link back in time at the end of OoT, right? Well the little Guardian traveling back in time at the start of AoC may have accomplished a similar effect. The future it left behind is the one that leads into BotW, while the new timeline created by the Guardian traveling to the past could lead into something different.

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On 5/18/2022 at 4:10 PM, Lord_Brand said:

Maybe they'll rerelease the trilogy on Switch in anticipation of MP4?

I'd honestly love to have the Metroid Prime Trilogy given the HD treatment akin to the 3D and HD Zelda remasters. I made a thread discussing the possibility of a potential Metroid Prime 1-3 remaster (and also the Wii U Zelda HD remasters, WW and TP) on the Switch if you're curious (link's in my original post if you haven't seen it already). It would make a lot of sense to re-release the Prime Trilogy again on Switch so that the series can be reintroduced to both fans new and old (And so that we don't have to pay so much freakin' money for physical copies of Metroid Prime 2: Echoes and the Wii Metroid Prime Trilogy). It certainly would be a great way to celebrate the original Metroid Prime's 20th Anniversary at least.

20 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

That's why having an option for both paths would have been ideal, so players could experience whichever ending they'd prefer. For some reason, whenever I tried to promote that mindset at ZU - "We can both have what we want!" - I always got shot down by somebody, as if it was somehow a sin for two people who want different things to both get those things. It's almost like people there had this mentality of "Well I don't get what I want unless my opponents don't get what they want". I will never understand why someone would apply that mindset to a video game series.

I speculate that AoC may have created another timeline split, not unlike OoT. The Child and Adult timelines happened because Zelda sent Link back in time at the end of OoT, right? Well the little Guardian traveling back in time at the start of AoC may have accomplished a similar effect. The future it left behind is the one that leads into BotW, while the new timeline created by the Guardian traveling to the past could lead into something different.

Y'know, I wouldn't have disliked Age of Calamity as much as I do if the game had two different endings. Sure, include a (non-canon) good ending that deviates from what the canon set up so that the future doesn't seem so bleak, but please include a canon bad ending as well that'll lead to the events of Breath of the Wild and therefore be what Nintendo marketed the game as in the first place: A prequel that's supposed to lead to the events of the game preceding it. I don't understand why the Zelda fans at Zelda Universe (I presume that's the site you're referring to when you say ZU) aren't for the idea of two different endings. Not only do Breath of the Wild fans get an ending that leads to Breath of the Wild and follows the canon set up by that game, but people who were attached to the 4 champions of 100 years past don't have to worry about losing one of their favorite champs in the alternate ending. It would've been great if Nintendo went with this idea instead of sticking to an ending that honestly doesn't make much sense in regards to the timeline and world its based on and what was marketed before AoC's release. That "Only I can get what I desire and everybody else who thinks otherwise doesn't deserve what they want" mentality is super foolish and flawed, and that mindset shouldn't be applied to anything, really, let alone video games.

As for the possible timeline split caused by AoC, I personally doubt that Nintendo will really go anywhere with it, and just have AoC be a one-off game that merely serves as a sequel to Hyrule Warriors in gameplay, and a prequel-ish to Breath of the Wild. Besides, Breath of the Wild 2 will be following up on the events of the first game as a pure sequel, so it looks like Nintendo only intends to stick to one consistent timeline in the Breath of the Wild universe.

On 5/18/2022 at 5:12 PM, vanguard333 said:

In terms of atmosphere, Prime 3 tries to be, for lack of a better word, "epic" than Prime 1 or 2. 1 and 2 try to go for a more typical Metroidvania atmosphere, but with 3 taking place during the final conflict between the Federation and the Phazon-corrupted Space Pirates, it tries to go for an atmosphere befitting Samus taking on a vital role in an epic conflict between good and evil, so dividing the exploration between multiple planets doesn't harm the atmosphere at all. Plus, it allows for a great variety of cool locations with plenty of atmosphere to them. 

Funny enough, I didn't mind Thardus, but I really disliked the Omega Pirate; that was a terrible boss fight.

I will say that choosing between Prime 2 and Prime 3 largely comes down to personal preference; both try to be different (Prime 2 with its light world & dark world, Prime 3 with trying to be a more epic conflict), and I prefer what Prime 3 did in execution. That said, two massive strikes against Prime 2 that have nothing to do with its different approach are that there are some stretches between save points that are even longer and more excruciating than the one in the Phazon Mines, and there's a key hunt at the end of the game that's far, far worse than the artifact hunt in Prime 1.

As for re-releasing the trilogy on Switch, the main obstacle I would see with that is that Prime 3 heavily depends on the Wii pointer, and while most games ported to Switch are able to easily replace the pointer controls with gyro controls, it's never as fast or precise as the pointer and it loses calibration.

Well, it's good to know that the addition of multiple planets to explore doesn't take away from the atmosphere compared to the singular planets of Tallon IV (which has a good variety of locations to explore) and Aether (with its Light and Dark side versions of the same planet) seen in Prime and Echoes respectively. Considering that it was marketed as the "end of the trilogy", I'm not surprised that Nintendo and Retro Studios would try and make the finale of the trilogy an epic conclusion to the two games preceding it, and just conclude the series as a whole (Well, at least before 4 was announced). Though now that Metroid Prime 4's going to be a thing, I can't help but wonder if it will retcon and therefore ruin what Metroid Prime 3 tried to end off, or if it will start a new story that doesn't harm the trilogy preceding it story-wise (But will it still have everyone's favorite alien infestation, Metroid Prime? I.E. The thing the games are named after). Still can't believe that we'll be getting a 4th entry to this beloved series after all these years. Hopefully it doesn't disappoint. 

I just beat Metroid Prime yesterday, and I must say that it was a solid game despite a few problems that I listed in a previous reply. Looking forward to trying out Echoes and Corruption when I'm in the mood to play them. As for the boss fights in Prime 1 (putting my comments in a spoiler box because I go in depth for just about all of the main bosses and to save some space in this reply),

Spoiler

I actually didn't find Omega Pirate to be that bad of a boss fight, he's just a bigger version of the Elite Pirate that can spawn enemies that aren't too hard to take care of before getting back to OP again. Besides, OP has that Super Missile weakness that makes his boss fight much easier than the likes of Thardus, who doesn't have a weakness to the weapons in Samus' arsenal when she encounters the big rocky bastard (He's the only boss in Metroid Prime 1 that I had to make more than two attempts on before I managed to defeat him). Now for the rest of the big bad bosses, the Parasite Queen's the easiest (which is to be expected considering that the player isn't even an hour into the game yet, and just learning the game's basic mechanics), Flaaghra's not too bad (just simply shoot the circular whatchamacallits that appear, then enter one of the four holed paths in morph ball mode to damage it), Thardus is a pain (because he can constantly mess up Samus' thermal visor, and also make the arena pure white in a snowstorm, which only obscures Samus' vision during the fight. I also found it rather hard to dodge his rolling move), Omega Pirate is really just a glorified, bigger version of the Elite Pirate with a few additional moves, which makes him rather easy imo, Meta Ridley got his well-earned can of whoop-ass (he wasn't too bad because you take out a majority of his health in phase 1, where his weak point is always exposed. Part 2 was a little more difficult because Ridley did his charge move a whole bunch, but it was still manageable), and Metroid Prime isn't too bad to deal with if you've got the combo moves for every one of Samus' beam moves that can be combined with the missile (and collected lots of missile expansions beforehand, though I managed to beat MP with only 90 missiles). Part 1's a 5 phase battle where the arena changes every floor, and it was the harder phase for me because of all the moves Metroid Prime throws at you. Part 2 is rather easy by comparison because Metroid Prime's Core only deals two moves, 1. That shock wave move that you've seen before when fighting the Omega Pirate 2. Spawn about one or two Metroids of varying types, then create a Phazon pool which allows Samus to absolutely annihilate Metroid Prime with a Hyper beam. All in all, not too bad of a final boss fight as long as you don't lose too much health in the first phase.

I'm not sure if you'd count the "mini-bosses" such as Incinerator Drone and the Phazon Elite (That odd, special enemy you have to fight in order to get one of the artifacts) among the list of bosses in the game, since they don't have that "boss bar" that also displays the name of the boss and they are all rather easy to defeat, so I don't cover them in my big boss analysis within the spoiler box. 

Phazon Mines is only really bad when you have to take that long stretch from the first save point to the second one when you first arrive at the area. The amount of space pirates you have to face (plus an Elite Pirate) on the way doesn't help much either, and can lead to a game over if you're not careful. Though once I got to the second checkpoint and beat the invisible drone, the area got much easier to navigate afterwards. Also, facing the space pirates becomes easier when you remember which beam to use on which particular space pirate, which will help take them out quicker. But if Prime 2 has longer and worse stretches between save points than what the Phazon Mines had, than it sounds like it'll be a bit of a pain to play through Echoes. I've generally heard that Echoes is the hardest game in the trilogy (at least the GameCube version is, because I hear that the Wii Trilogy version nerfed the difficulty, though it was for good reason), due to things such as the dark world doing damage to Samus until she gets a better suit, an ammo system for the light/dark beam, harder puzzles, and a few particular bosses being rather infamous for their difficulty. Though to be fair, difficulty is rather subjective, because while I find Thardus hard and Omega Pirate easy, you consider the opposite. Besides, maybe after playing through Metroid Prime, I might be prepared for what's to come in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes and Metroid Prime 3: Corruption (which I hear is the easiest game of the trilogy, though I've heard mixed thoughts on the Wii's controls, whether it be for MP3 or the Trilogy versions of MP1 and MP2. Though to be fair, the GameCube's aiming controls were kind of ass at times, and platforming isn't the easiest thing to do in Metroid Prime). But a worse artifact hunt than Metroid Prime 1? Say it isn't so, @vanguard333! I thought MP1's artifact hunt was okay, since it wasn't too hard to find most of them without a guide, but most of the artifact hunting is relegated to the end of the game, which only leads to more backtracking. To be fair, the Metroid (and Castlevania) series has backtracking as a part of the games, so it's not a terrible feature, just time-consuming is all. Anything in particular that makes Echoes' version of the hunt worse than Prime's, and why Corruption's version is the best of the three?

Now, you've probably already seen my thread where I go over the possibility of a Metroid Prime HD collection (plus Zelda HD remaster ports) on Switch, but I have discussed a way for them to change the controls in MP3 to fit the Switch, and I'll reiterate my point here. As for Metroid Prime 1 and 2: Echoes, those would be easy, since the GameCube didn't use a pointer at all, and was all buttons and triggers, so for the potential Switch adaptations of those games, just map the appropriate buttons and triggers. Easy as pie for those 2. Now as for Metroid Prime 3 on Switch, I'd do what Skyward Sword HD did in its Switch port and have a "buttons only" option in order to provide an alternate control method for the game. Though for MP3, I would completely remove any and all motion controls and just have it control like it would for MP1 and MP2. That way, they will all have the same controls and not feel too different when you switch to a different title in the collection, kind of like what 3D All Stars did with its Switch controls. I can't see motion controls working for MP3 on Switch, even if Skyward Sword HD managed to find a work around. Pointer controls don't work on Switch because of the lack of a pointer and sensor bar, and instead have to rely on the Switch's gyro controls, which isn't as great as how it worked on the Wii. Super Mario Galaxy on the Switch proves this when you try and point at the screen to pick up Star bits through the Switch's gyro controls, which is less effective than the Wii version, and proves why I don't think MP3 on Switch should have a motion control option, just pure button controls.

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1 hour ago, CyberZord said:

I don't understand why the Zelda fans at Zelda Universe (I presume that's the site you're referring to when you say ZU) aren't for the idea of two different endings

I am indeed referring to Zelda Universe. And I don't know if everyone there was opposed to the idea, I just remember being shot down by somebody for suggesting a good alternate ending.

1 hour ago, CyberZord said:

Not only do Breath of the Wild fans get an ending that leads to Breath of the Wild and follows the canon set up by that game, but people who were attached to the 4 champions of 100 years past don't have to worry about losing one of their favorite champs in the alternate ending. It would've been great if Nintendo went with this idea instead of sticking to an ending that honestly doesn't make much sense in regards to the timeline and world its based on and what was marketed before AoC's release. That "Only I can get what I desire and everybody else who thinks otherwise doesn't deserve what they want" mentality is super foolish and flawed, and that mindset shouldn't be applied to anything, really, let alone video games.

Right? Best of both worlds! I faced similar opposition when I suggested they make more open-world Zelda games in the future instead of sticking with mostly linear stories like the series has done since Link's Awakening. Or when I suggested alternating between open world and linear games. The most common argument I remember hearing is "If they're spending time on open-world games, that's less time they're spending on linear games and less linear games they're making". So basically, I'm supposed to go without the games I want so someone else can have more of the kinds of games they want, instead of us both getting games we want. I don't remember who said that, and I could be misremembering as it's been a while since I left ZU, but I distinctly recall going through such a conversation there.

I also faced such opposition when suggesting a Zelda game set in a futuristic, more modernized Hyrule with cars, bikes, trains, firearms (though moreso beam-firing as opposed to bullet-firing) and even computers. Basically a Futurepunk Zelda, set sometime after BotW.

1 hour ago, CyberZord said:

As for the possible timeline split caused by AoC, I personally doubt that Nintendo will really go anywhere with it, and just have AoC be a one-off game that merely serves as a sequel to Hyrule Warriors in gameplay, and a prequel-ish to Breath of the Wild. Besides, Breath of the Wild 2 will be following up on the events of the first game as a pure sequel, so it looks like Nintendo only intends to stick to one consistent timeline in the Breath of the Wild universe.

I think we should wait until we see what Nintendo has planned after BotW2 before making that call. Remember that Majora's Mask (Child Timeline) was followed by the Oracles (Downfall Timeline), FS (Child Timeline), TWW (Adult Timeline), and TP (Child Timeline). It's perfectly possible Nintendo will in the future produce a sequel in the alternate timeline following AoC's good ending.

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5 hours ago, CyberZord said:

I just beat Metroid Prime yesterday, and I must say that it was a solid game despite a few problems that I listed in a previous reply. Looking forward to trying out Echoes and Corruption when I'm in the mood to play them. As for the boss fights in Prime 1 (putting my comments in a spoiler box because I go in depth for just about all of the main bosses and to save some space in this reply),

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I actually didn't find Omega Pirate to be that bad of a boss fight, he's just a bigger version of the Elite Pirate that can spawn enemies that aren't too hard to take care of before getting back to OP again. Besides, OP has that Super Missile weakness that makes his boss fight much easier than the likes of Thardus, who doesn't have a weakness to the weapons in Samus' arsenal when she encounters the big rocky bastard (He's the only boss in Metroid Prime 1 that I had to make more than two attempts on before I managed to defeat him). Now for the rest of the big bad bosses, the Parasite Queen's the easiest (which is to be expected considering that the player isn't even an hour into the game yet, and just learning the game's basic mechanics), Flaaghra's not too bad (just simply shoot the circular whatchamacallits that appear, then enter one of the four holed paths in morph ball mode to damage it), Thardus is a pain (because he can constantly mess up Samus' thermal visor, and also make the arena pure white in a snowstorm, which only obscures Samus' vision during the fight. I also found it rather hard to dodge his rolling move), Omega Pirate is really just a glorified, bigger version of the Elite Pirate with a few additional moves, which makes him rather easy imo, Meta Ridley got his well-earned can of whoop-ass (he wasn't too bad because you take out a majority of his health in phase 1, where his weak point is always exposed. Part 2 was a little more difficult because Ridley did his charge move a whole bunch, but it was still manageable), and Metroid Prime isn't too bad to deal with if you've got the combo moves for every one of Samus' beam moves that can be combined with the missile (and collected lots of missile expansions beforehand, though I managed to beat MP with only 90 missiles). Part 1's a 5 phase battle where the arena changes every floor, and it was the harder phase for me because of all the moves Metroid Prime throws at you. Part 2 is rather easy by comparison because Metroid Prime's Core only deals two moves, 1. That shock wave move that you've seen before when fighting the Omega Pirate 2. Spawn about one or two Metroids of varying types, then create a Phazon pool which allows Samus to absolutely annihilate Metroid Prime with a Hyper beam. All in all, not too bad of a final boss fight as long as you don't lose too much health in the first phase.

 

I didn't find Omega Pirate to be difficult so much as I found him... janky, for lack of a better word. His boss fight came across as extremely unpolished. I lost my first fight against him entirely due to said jank (I didn't lose to a single boss fight before or after him). He was a lot easier the second time around after I learned a few tricks (I didn't know that the super bomb easily clears the room of elite pirates, so, in my first round against him, I kept having to choose between damaging the boss and fighting them because there wasn't enough time during the Omega Pirate's vulnerable state to do both), but he was still very frustrating despite being very easy by that point.

 

5 hours ago, CyberZord said:

But if Prime 2 has longer and worse stretches between save points than what the Phazon Mines had, than it sounds like it'll be a bit of a pain to play through Echoes. I've generally heard that Echoes is the hardest game in the trilogy (at least the GameCube version is, because I hear that the Wii Trilogy version nerfed the difficulty, though it was for good reason), due to things such as the dark world doing damage to Samus until she gets a better suit, an ammo system for the light/dark beam, harder puzzles, and a few particular bosses being rather infamous for their difficulty. Though to be fair, difficulty is rather subjective, because while I find Thardus hard and Omega Pirate easy, you consider the opposite. Besides, maybe after playing through Metroid Prime, I might be prepared for what's to come in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes and Metroid Prime 3: Corruption (which I hear is the easiest game of the trilogy, though I've heard mixed thoughts on the Wii's controls, whether it be for MP3 or the Trilogy versions of MP1 and MP2. Though to be fair, the GameCube's aiming controls were kind of ass at times, and platforming isn't the easiest thing to do in Metroid Prime). But a worse artifact hunt than Metroid Prime 1? Say it isn't so, @vanguard333! I thought MP1's artifact hunt was okay, since it wasn't too hard to find most of them without a guide, but most of the artifact hunting is relegated to the end of the game, which only leads to more backtracking. To be fair, the Metroid (and Castlevania) series has backtracking as a part of the games, so it's not a terrible feature, just time-consuming is all. Anything in particular that makes Echoes' version of the hunt worse than Prime's, and why Corruption's version is the best of the three?

The Wii version didn't really nerf Prime 2's difficulty; it just added an easier difficulty mode in addition to the difficulty modes that it already had. Prime 2, overall, is definitely more difficult than Prime 1. Long stretches between save points are infrequent, but they do happen. There's an infamous example of one in the late game where there's a very long stretch between the last save point and an important and notoriously difficult & janky mini-boss that's fought entirely in spider ball mode.

Prime 3 is technically the easiest in that the Trilogy version didn't have to add an easier difficulty setting, unlike with Prime 1 and 2 as that easier setting was already there. If you find action easier than puzzles, then its the easiest since it definitely focuses a lot more on the action than on the puzzles (probably to both capitalize on the Wii controls and make the game more "epic"). Speaking of the Wii controls, I played the trilogy on the Wii U and, because of that, I played through all three games with the Wii controls. I honestly didn't mind it; aiming was really cool, as the Wii pointer is probably the best aiming system any console has ever offered. There are a few motion gimmicks in Prime 3 (it is a product of the Wii era after all), but they're harmless and they don't really get in the way.

Platforming is a pain in any first-person game; how am I supposed to confidently have my character jump from one platform to the next when I can't even see where my character will land?

Prime 1's artifact hunt, to me at least, is saved by the fact that you can access the temple very early in the game (as I did on my first playthrough) and you can find a majority of the artifacts when playing through the game normally if you explore thoroughly. Neither of those things are the case in Prime 2; you have to seek out a bunch of keys in the late game, with the place where you need to place the keys only being available near the end of the game, and you don't actually learn where the keys are by going to that place; you learn the locations of fallen warriors who protected the keys, and its by scanning those fallen warriors' corpses that you then find the locations of the keys. Prime 3 is the best because you can easily start hunting for them early on in the game, you unlock the place where you need to use them about halfway through the game, and you don't actually need to obtain all of them to beat the game (though you do need all of them if you want to explore the whole area and get all the upgrades).

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42 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

The Wii version didn't really nerf Prime 2's difficulty; it just added an easier difficulty mode in addition to the difficulty modes that it already had. Prime 2, overall, is definitely more difficult than Prime 1. Long stretches between save points are infrequent, but they do happen. There's an infamous example of one in the late game where there's a very long stretch between the last save point and an important and notoriously difficult & janky mini-boss that's fought entirely in spider ball mode.

 

I've heard it said that the Boost Ball and Spider Ball bosses specifically were nerfed in the Trilogy release. As they were unreasonably hard in their original incarnations, to the extent that one developer said he couldn't beat the Boost Ball boss without the debug menu. I haven't played the Game Cub version myself, but I didn't have any toruble with these two specific bosses playing the hardest difficulty of the Trilogy version, so I can believe they were nerfed.

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4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I've heard it said that the Boost Ball and Spider Ball bosses specifically were nerfed in the Trilogy release. As they were unreasonably hard in their original incarnations, to the extent that one developer said he couldn't beat the Boost Ball boss without the debug menu. I haven't played the GameCube version myself, but I didn't have any trouble with these two specific bosses playing the hardest difficulty of the Trilogy version, so I can believe they were nerfed.

I just looked it up: the Boost Ball boss had the damage it dealt significantly reduced. I honestly didn't mind that boss at all, and perhaps that explains why, but I honestly didn't find it frustrating at all; the only thing wrong with it being that it's fought in Dark Aether without any light.

The Spider Ball boss, however, was completely unchanged, which I can believe, as that boss was a frustrating pain. The only thing that makes the fight easier in the Trilogy version is that the Trilogy version added the ability to make Samus jump in morph ball mode without a bomb by flicking the Wii remote (which is a big help for me, as I'm terrible at timing the bombs for multiple jumps).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Boost Guardian wasn't that bad.  I recall losing to much health the first time around before finding out how to hurt it and not having enough time to win due to the health draining environment.  Came back and swiftly won round 2.

I look forward to playing Metroid Prime 4 whenever it's ready.  That mysterious ship stalking Samus at the end of the third game will most likely be part of the plot and I'm sure Metroid Prime will find some way to crawl out of oblivion into the 4th installment.  A Dark SA-X parasite would be an interesting way to bring her back without actually reviving her.

Breath of the Wild 2 looks good so far.  Plan on playing the first one this year so I should be ready for the second by the time it comes out.

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13 hours ago, Rukina said:

Boost Guardian wasn't that bad.  I recall losing to much health the first time around before finding out how to hurt it and not having enough time to win due to the health draining environment.  Came back and swiftly won round 2.

Yeah, I didn't have any problem with the boost guardian either. What did you think of the spider ball guardian?

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