Jump to content

Rumors vs Prejudice


RLR_FYE
 Share

Recommended Posts

So I found out someone has been saying to people for years that I am transphobic because I insisted on calling them by their old name.

The problem with this claim is they have a before they were trans they had a reputation for making fake names for themselves because the they didn’t want their actual name on facebook.

So my question to on is… how the heck was I supposed to know?

So many people rant about screwed up all the sins of prejudice are. The big bad four of homophobia, transphobia, sexism and racism.

But I disagree. Those situations are wrong but they are not the worst.

In my opinion what’s fat worse is a gossip and a rumor spreader.

The mean things people say to your face hurt but a stab in the front is always better than a stab in the back which is what rumors are.

I would rather be called a slur than have someone spread nasty malicious rumor sbehind my back.

As a Christian the Bible is very clear on the subject of gossip and rumors and slander. There’s a special place in hell reserved for them.

So my religious values are at odds with secular values which say that being prejudiced is worse.

I disagree.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, RLR_FYE said:

So many people rant about screwed up all the sins of prejudice are. The big bad four of homophobia, transphobia, sexism and racism.

But I disagree. Those situations are wrong but they are not the worst.

In my opinion what’s fat worse is a gossip and a rumor spreader.

The mean things people say to your face hurt but a stab in the front is always better than a stab in the back which is what rumors are.

Of course, unfounded gossip and rumors are wrong to share. Perhaps spreading gossip and rumors is indeed worse than any of the "big bad four", as you say. But! That doesn't mean that traits such as homophobia, transphobia, sexism, and racism aren't still bad. Even if "worse" is worse than "bad", that doesn't mean that "bad" suddenly becomes any less bad.

38 minutes ago, RLR_FYE said:

I would rather be called a slur than have someone spread nasty malicious rumor sbehind my back.

As a Christian the Bible is very clear on the subject of gossip and rumors and slander. There’s a special place in hell reserved for them.

So my religious values are at odds with secular values which say that being prejudiced is worse.

I disagree.

People tend to judge things with themselves as the metric. It's pretty natural, even going so far as the golden rule ("treat others how you would wish to be treated"). But it's worth considering that others have values and preferences different from your own. You may be less bothered by a slur than by malicious rumors, but for your friend, it may be the other way around. And again, even if slurs are "less bad" than rumors, that doesn't mean that slurs stop being "bad".

40 minutes ago, RLR_FYE said:

So I found out someone has been saying to people for years that I am transphobic because I insisted on calling them by their old name.

The problem with this claim is they have a before they were trans they had a reputation for making fake names for themselves because the they didn’t want their actual name on facebook.

So my question to on is… how the heck was I supposed to know?

It's totally understandable that being accused of being transphobic, or referred as such behind your back, would feel hurtful and insulting to you. It's alright to be bothered by it - and, if you believe it to be inaccurate, to push back against it. However, I think the big question to ask is - where do you want to go moving forward? Do you wish to cut this person off from your life, or do you want to work on repairing the relationship? Either route is at your discretion. If you want to repair things, then I'd say the two of you need to have a talk. You're both bothered by things each has said about the other, but perhaps by addressing why those things were said, you can start to understand each other again. It's not easy, but it could be rewarding on both ends. Maybe they're not willing to talk, but at least you could say you tried.

One more thing - speaking from a non-binary perspective, it's possible that your friend came up with "fake names" for social media because they had a certain degree of animus regarding their birth name, even before they came out as trans. Or, they simply viewed it as a matter of privacy. I dunno, this is all speculative from me - only your friend would really know.

Good luck, in whatever way you choose to move forward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RLR_FYE said:

So I found out someone has been saying to people for years that I am transphobic because I insisted on calling them by their old name.

The problem with this claim is they have a before they were trans they had a reputation for making fake names for themselves because the they didn’t want their actual name on facebook.

So my question to on is… how the heck was I supposed to know?

If I were to speculate, I think the main problem you had was one of two things, you either assumed their motives for name changing (or perhaps were swayed by rumors about their motives back then?) from the start, or you assumed the same motive they had before for the most recent change. In both instances the issue was in you assuming something untrue and then acting on that incorrect assumption.

I hope you have gotten a chance to apologize to them for dead-naming them, or perhaps even spreading rumors about the reason they changed their name, or what their name is...

 

1 hour ago, RLR_FYE said:

 

So many people rant about screwed up all the sins of prejudice are. The big bad four of homophobia, transphobia, sexism and racism.

But I disagree. Those situations are wrong but they are not the worst.

In my opinion what’s fat worse is a gossip and a rumor spreader.

A part of those prejudices involve the spreading of gossips and rumors. Take as one of innumerable examples I could bring, the extremely malicious and false rumors that are being spread now about all trans people being child groomers. These -phobias and -isms at their core start with the spreading of vile rumors and gossip, and then use them to inspire numerous other heinous acts. Why would these people who not only spread vile gossip and rumors, and then continue on to act on them in other ways, be less bad then those that stop at the spreading of gossip and rumors?

 

2 hours ago, RLR_FYE said:

 

I would rather be called a slur than have someone spread nasty malicious rumor sbehind my back.

As a Christian the Bible is very clear on the subject of gossip and rumors and slander. There’s a special place in hell reserved for them.

So my religious values are at odds with secular values which say that being prejudiced is worse.

I disagree.

I don't think they fundamentally do, you just haven't cared enough about those -phobias and -isms to learn about how sinful they are.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is going to be blunt. You sound like a bigot.

The fact that you 'insist' on keep calling them by their old name implies they asked you to stop calling them that, but you're just refusing. The fact that you wrote, "So my religious values are at odds with secular values which say that being prejudiced is worse." & how you defer to your 'Christian values' makes it feel pointless to engage with you.

You don't sound like an ally, and I definitely wouldn't trust you to not screw them over while they are under consistent attacks by the actual government & evangelical Christians. Because whether or not they intentionally engage in gossips, rumors, or slanders, it looks like trans people can't stop being ostracized and under assault by your religion and bible because they are trans.

----

42 States Have Considered or Passed Anti-Abortion or Anti-Trans Laws This Year

Top Texas Court Allows Rule that: "Gender-Affirming Medical treatments to transgender youths constitutes child abuse"

Conservatives are increasingly imposing government control over sexuality and gender

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When a few people close to me came out as trans a couple years back, I was a very immature and oblivious Grade 9 student who had never before even thought about gender. As I was introduced to this new concept, it was not particularly uncommon for me to dead-name my friends on accident or otherwise forget pronouns- Not out of malice, but out of lack of understanding and, at least partially, my own acceptance of the idea. Additionally, as with you, a big part of it was that I was out of the loop. I have never used any social media (unless you count this forum), so I was usually the last person to know about people having come out. Furthermore, as gender was a new concept for me, it took me a good, long while to figure it out. As much as I am ashamed to admit it, the idea of gender bothered me a fair bit, and I spent a long time trying to sort out what I felt about it and how to improve upon myself. Never before in my life had my desire to be kind to others been disrupted by my discomfort with a group, and I was heavily conflicted about the whole thing.

Like you, I was raised as a Christian (Roman Catholic, to be precise), and a lot of my personal values come from that background. One thing that is absolutely integral to Catholic teachings is putting others ahead of yourself and serving others, to stand with the downtrodden or misfortunate and help them. Jesus' goal was not to make his followers feel better about themselves- It was to help people. At least in the Catholic Bible, there's a lot of stress put on Jesus' great disdain for the Pharisees, the people who considered themselves to be better than everyone else because they followed the Bible's teachings and were, at least by the book, not sinners. Eventually, I reached the understanding that it had nothing to do with gender nor what I thought about it: It had to do with being kind to others. If I were to discriminate or back away from people on the basis of gender, I'd simply be repeating the actions of the Pharisees, paying merely lip service and not actually being truly kind. (*Please do note that trans people aren't sinners or sick in my mind- My way of accepting and better understanding it was simply shaped by the way the pharisees treated others*)

Gender had nothing to do with it; these people were my friends, regardless of pronouns or gender. As a friend and as a person in general, I eventually came to acceptance of my own thoughts on gender, and have managed to put 'em away in favour of doing my best to be kind, as the truth is that I still don't really understand gender and it's something I'm going to have to keep working on.

I can assure you that it was not a coincidence that pretty much as soon as I came to my own internal acceptance, my issues with getting people's name or pronouns incorrect were drastically reduced; I remembered them easier, I was more quick to realize my errors, and I became better at being proactive with finding out about how people identify. I'm still far from flawless and have a long ways to go in many ways, and I will still sometimes get people's pronouns wrong or end up out of the loop for names, but my eventual understanding that it wasn't about me really helped me move past my near brush from meaningfully hurting my friends or people in general. In that regard, I do fully understand you, matey- I, at least, find the whole thing confusing as well, and it took me a very long time to get to a solid place on the subject. I had ended up rather lost in a mental maze in terms of figuring out how to be a good person, and to give you credit, reacting strongly to accusations of being transphobic or hateful when you had no such intention is fully understandable, but...

1 hour ago, Clear World said:

You sound like a bigot.

I concur with Clear's assessment; the way you come across doesn't seem misguided or confused, even if that is how you internally feel. Keep in mind that other people can only see how you come across- Intention is only really known to you, the speaker. If you say one thing and it comes across as meaning something completely different, it is your responsibility to try and sort things out. The truth of the matter is that only you can be the one to apologize for using the wrong name for an extended period of time. Over time, these people may come to recognize their own mistakes, but that ball's in their ballpark, while this one's in yours.

One thing I could suggest is rather than simply blaming or accusing others (Which, again, I understand as someone else who's struggled with being slow to adjust to others), I would advise looking internally- 'Why are these people saying that I am transphobic?' 'If many people do believe that I am being hateful, what can I do to rectify things?'

Another piece of advice I could give is this: People are most often self-centred. It's human nature to be self-centred. One thing that really helped me become more kind and accepting knowing was that people are going to be more focused on their own values or thoughts- For me, it was confusion and not understanding what gender even is, and it sounds like for you it has to do with your values clashing with secular ones in terms of right or wrong. And then, knowing that people are going to know more about their own values than yours, accomodate theirs as best you can when you are speaking to them. You can very much value not spreading gossip and consider it to be worse than being discriminatory to certain groups, but as the others have mentioned, this will not be true of everyone, and focusing solely on your own thoughts and values can bring you into conflict with others and end up with you inadvertently acting in a way contrary to what you think is right. As you mentioned yourself,

7 hours ago, RLR_FYE said:

Those situations are wrong

And, knowing that they are wrong, that means that you can fix it. You've already identified a big part of the problem. Ultimately, it is up to you whether you think it is better to focus on the misdeeds of others or fix your own part in the play, whether or not it is better to rectify a situation that is wrong or focus solely on what other people did in reaction to your transgression. One thing I can say with confidence, though, is that you won't slough off the stones of slander by proving the slanderers right.

 

---

As an aside, I do hope that me and my thoughts on gender didn't alienate or hurt any non-binary members of the forest; if any of y'all are reading this and I came across as if I am better than any of you or was otherwise hurtful, I sincerely apologize- I wasn't sure if talking about it this openly was a good idea, but I thought it may help with the OP's own conflict. I just wanted to clarify here at the bottom of the post that any sort of conflict I have with gender and identity is a problem with me, not you. It has nothing to do with you, how you identify or how you present yourselves, but with my own mind's path through life.

Edited by Benice
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Of course, unfounded gossip and rumors are wrong to share. Perhaps spreading gossip and rumors is indeed worse than any of the "big bad four", as you say. But! That doesn't mean that traits such as homophobia, transphobia, sexism, and racism aren't still bad. Even if "worse" is worse than "bad", that doesn't mean that "bad" suddenly becomes any less bad.

People tend to judge things with themselves as the metric. It's pretty natural, even going so far as the golden rule ("treat others how you would wish to be treated"). But it's worth considering that others have values and preferences different from your own. You may be less bothered by a slur than by malicious rumors, but for your friend, it may be the other way around. And again, even if slurs are "less bad" than rumors, that doesn't mean that slurs stop being "bad".

I’ve dealt with prejudice. I’ve dealt with rumors. Both hurt but the difference between fighting something you can see and soemthing you don’t know about is what makes rumors so evil to me. 

Quote

It's totally understandable that being accused of being transphobic, or referred as such behind your back, would feel hurtful and insulting to you. It's alright to be bothered by it - and, if you believe it to be inaccurate, to push back against it. However, I think the big question to ask is - where do you want to go moving forward? Do you wish to cut this person off from your life, or do you want to work on repairing the relationship? Either route is at your discretion. If you want to repair things, then I'd say the two of you need to have a talk. You're both bothered by things each has said about the other, but perhaps by addressing why those things were said, you can start to understand each other again. It's not easy, but it could be rewarding on both ends. Maybe they're not willing to talk, but at least you could say you tried.

One more thing - speaking from a non-binary perspective, it's possible that your friend came up with "fake names" for social media because they had a certain degree of animus regarding their birth name, even before they came out as trans. Or, they simply viewed it as a matter of privacy. I dunno, this is all speculative from me - only your friend would really know.

Good luck, in whatever way you choose to move forward.

Nope this person explicitly flaunted and went on about how they don’t  trust social media with their real name. 

They went by Cthulhu  Elder on Facebook at some point. So unless they self identified as a tentacle monster from an HP Lovecraft Horror novel on the way to being trans, then no I had no way of knowing their latest name was a trans identity. 
 

7 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

If I were to speculate, I think the main problem you had was one of two things, you either assumed their motives for name changing (or perhaps were swayed by rumors about their motives back then?) from the start, or you assumed the same motive they had before for the most recent change. In both instances the issue was in you assuming something untrue and then acting on that incorrect assumption.

I hope you have gotten a chance to apologize to them for dead-naming them, or perhaps even spreading rumors about the reason they changed their name, or what their name is...

I will not apologize to someone who spread lies about me. 

Quote

 

A part of those prejudices involve the spreading of gossips and rumors. Take as one of innumerable examples I could bring, the extremely malicious and false rumors that are being spread now about all trans people being child groomers. These -phobias and -isms at their core start with the spreading of vile rumors and gossip, and then use them to inspire numerous other heinous acts. Why would these people who not only spread vile gossip and rumors, and then continue on to act on them in other ways, be less bad then those that stop at the spreading of gossip and rumors?

 

I don't think they fundamentally do, you just haven't cared enough about those -phobias and -isms to learn about how sinful they are.

 

I’m anLGBT Christian. Trust me I fucking know. The pain of prejudice never hurt me as much as rumors ever could. 
 

4 hours ago, Clear World said:

This is going to be blunt. You sound li a bigot.

The fact that you 'insist' on keep calling them by their old name implies they asked you to stop calling them that, but you're just refusing. The fact that you wrote, "So my religious values are at odds with secular values which say that being prejudiced is worse." & how you defer to your 'Christian values' makes it feel pointless to engage with you.

You don't sound like an ally, and I definitely wouldn't trust you to not screw them over while they are under consistent attacks by the actual government & evangelical Christians. Because whether or not they intentionally engage in gossips, rumors, or slanders, it looks like trans people can't stop being ostracized and under assault by your religion and bible because they are 

Okay wtf? Did you read the OP. They CLAIMED I insisted. I didn’t insist I just didn’t know. They never told me or communicated this with me in any way. They just ran their mouth. what part of I didn’t know do you not understand? 

The fact that you cite my faith as a reason you think I’m a bigot tips your hand as a militant atheist who willfully believes that your mind has been enlightened and freed from the shackles of religion. From what I can gather, you d actually get along better with Christian’s if you actually talked. I mean assuming you’re better than others is per the course for you militant atheist types. 

As I referenced earlier I am an LGBT Christian so your assumptions that I would  turn a blind eye to the suffering of my own community is. Blatant straight bashing. You assumed the best sexual orientation to undermine my opinion. So who here is the bigot exactly? 

 No my issue is you can fight what you see in a slur but you cannot fight what you don’t see in a rumor. It is the invisibility of rumors that makes them so much more evil than prejudice and the Bible agrees with me on that to the point that there is literally nothing more that God hates than a gossip. 

 

 

Edited by RLR_FYE
Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, RLR_FYE said:

 

As I referenced earlier I am an LGBT Christian so your assumptions that I would  turn a blind eye to the suffering of my own community is. Blatant straight bashing. You assumed the best sexual orientation to undermine my opinion. So who here is the bigot exactly? 

This response sounds an awful lot like what this trans person did to you. @Clear World made a false assumption about you based on the information they had, and you didn't wait to explain, or correct them until after you have brand them a bigot with this "Blatant Straight Bashing".

 

28 minutes ago, RLR_FYE said:

I will not apologize to someone who spread lies about me. 

Sure you misjudged their intent when they changed their name, and they misjudged your intent when they saw you lying about their identity. It sounds like this rumor was at most a misguided response to you spreading misguided lies about them. It sounds like the confusion that birthed your error has been rectified, why not reciprocate by trying to have a conversation with them, and explain your own side of things with an apology. What is so wrong with trying to turn the other cheek?

 

29 minutes ago, RLR_FYE said:

I’m anLGBT Christian. Trust me I fucking know. The pain of prejudice never hurt me as much as rumors ever could. 

That you think these -phobias and -ism are all so readily apparent

56 minutes ago, RLR_FYE said:

I’ve dealt with prejudice. I’ve dealt with rumors. Both hurt but the difference between fighting something you can see and soemthing you don’t know about is what makes rumors so evil to me. 

makes it clear that you really don't understand them like you said. They are more than just slurs. How many of those rumors were just that prejudice made manifest? How many times were you wronged by people acting out of bigotry and didn't know? Sure there are more blatant forms of bigotry, but there are plenty of quiet kinds as well, which hide just as well as rumors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, RLR_FYE said:

Nope this person explicitly flaunted and went on about how they don’t  trust social media with their real name. 

They went by Cthulhu  Elder on Facebook at some point. So unless they self identified as a tentacle monster from an HP Lovecraft Horror novel on the way to being trans, then no I had no way of knowing their latest name was a trans identity. 

Okay? I don't see what's wrong with that, it sounds like they were just trying to have a little fun with their social media presence. But again, it could've been a means of moving away from their prior name.

It's understandable that you didn't recognize their latest social media name change as a more authentic expression of identity. I don't think "accidentally deadnaming or misgendering" is morally wrong, it's just a mistake borne of understandable ignorance. The question is - now that you know, how are you gonna refer to this person?

2 hours ago, RLR_FYE said:

I will not apologize to someone who spread lies about me. 

It's possible to do wrong against people who have wronged, or are in the process of, wronging you. Apologizing for the way you may have hurt them (even unintentionally) does NOT mean sacrificing any claim that they have hurt you. It may be necessary for both of you to apologize to each other, in order to move forward. Even if it means swallowing a certain amount of pride or self-righteousness. 

That said, even if this is the line you've drawn, that doesn't mean you can't talk to your old friend about this. If they'll listen to you, you can explain why you said the things you did. And maybe they'll say something in return that helps you understand where they're at.

2 hours ago, RLR_FYE said:

I’ve dealt with prejudice. I’ve dealt with rumors. Both hurt but the difference between fighting something you can see and soemthing you don’t know about is what makes rumors so evil to me. 

They can both be bad, sure. But one doesn't negate the other. If you are guilty of prejudice (and I'm not saying you are), then saying "yeah, but only because the other person spread rumors about me!" is no excuse. It would hardly be righteous of me to respond to a black colleague accusing me by racism, by calling them the n-word.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Okay? I don't see what's wrong with that, it sounds like they were just trying to have a little fun with their social media presence. But again, it could've been a means of moving away from their prior name.

It's understandable that you didn't recognize their latest social media name change as a more authentic expression of identity. I don't think "accidentally deadnaming or misgendering" is morally wrong, it's just a mistake borne of understandable ignorance. The question is - now that you know, how are you gonna refer to this person?

Before the rumor? Their trans name. After the rumor? I got a lot of choice nicknames for liars that I would love to try out. None  of them are transphobic but not exactly flattering. 

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

It's possible to do wrong against people who have wronged, or are in the process of, wronging you. Apologizing for the way you may have hurt them (even unintentionally) does NOT mean sacrificing any claim that they have hurt you. It may be necessary for both of you to apologize to each other, in order to move forward. Even if it means swallowing a certain amount of pride or self-righteousness. 
 

There’s never an excuse for not asking someone  to their face when you can. You can call it self righteousness or Pride if you like but I may have owed an apology before the rumor, but after? No, now the onus is on them.

If someone beat you up for calling them a name, your apology is paid for in blood and bruises. In the Yakuza, you cut off a finger to show you’re sorry. 
My apology is paid for. 

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

That said, even if this is the line you've drawn, that doesn't mean you can't talk to your old friend about this. If they'll listen to you, you can explain why you said the things you did. And maybe they'll say something in return that helps you understand where they're at.

They can both be bad, sure. But one doesn't negate the other. If you are guilty of prejudice (and I'm not saying you are), then saying "yeah, but only because the other person spread rumors about me!" is no excuse. It would hardly be righteous of me to respond to a black colleague accusing me by racism, by calling them the n-word.

No but it’s still the lesser wrong by a long shot. It’s like comparing masturbating in a parking lot and raping someone. The n-word here is not okay but it’s hardly in the same league in my eyes. I feel the same way about rumor spreaders that I do about murderers and pedophiles. That may sound extreme to you but not Proverbs 6. 
You are entitled to disagree but that’s MY value system. I won’t be pressured to subscribe to another because of trans rights.

As someone with high functioning autism, time and time again, I’ve seen it too many times. Austist learn by trial and error so when you are constantly changing the rules of society at a rapid pace, they make more faux pas than are socially acceptable and are outcasted.  The demand for rapid social change by trans rights activists is therefore extremely ableist to me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

This response sounds an awful lot like what this trans person did to you. @Clear World made a false assumption about you based on the information they had, and you didn't wait to explain, or correct them until after you have brand them a bigot with this "Blatant Straight Bashing".

 

Sure you misjudged their intent when they changed their name, and they misjudged your intent when they saw you lying about their identity. It sounds like this rumor was at most a misguided response to you spreading misguided lies about them. It sounds like the confusion that birthed your error has been rectified, why not reciprocate by trying to have a conversation with them, and explain your own side of things with an apology. What is so wrong with trying to turn the other cheek?

 

That you think these -phobias and -ism are all so readily apparent

makes it clear that you really don't understand them like you said. They are more than just slurs. How many of those rumors were just that prejudice made manifest? How many times were you wronged by people acting out of bigotry and didn't know? Sure there are more blatant forms of bigotry, but there are plenty of quiet kinds as well, which hide just as well as rumors.

Oh I know all about quiet prejudice. I’m a mixed kid. You’d be surprised the things I deem racist because you would likely adamantly disagree with me and that disagreement in turn allows the behavior to continue.  
But say the prejudice was violence, then no I still stand by rumors being worse even up to being lynched.

The negative impact that rumors have on mental health is assault on the mind.

As someone who is bipolar and has their friends and families worried I could go manic from this because it’s combining with personal issues I am struggling with at the moment. 

You do NOT want to go through mania. I would more quickly kill someone than make them manic. It is a fate worse than death to me.

So with that logic in mind, I stand by rumors being worse than prejudices. 

Edited by RLR_FYE
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a classmate back in high school that I had met prior to them becoming transgender. They were a grade below me and the friend of a friend. I didn't see them often since they lived on the other side of the neighborhood, but they seemed like a good kid. Fast forward a few years or so, and they were in one of my classes in high school. The class was a very "social" class, you could say, so everybody got to know each other to a pretty good degree... well, I think I got to know everybody pretty well, anyway. As such, I got to know this individual better, too. I didn't realize it at the time that they were the same person since I hadn't seen them in a good while, but I had my suspicions about it since they shared the same last name. I thought that maybe they were a family member or something.

So one day, I went straight to them and asked out of curiosity (and quite bluntly, on my bad), "What happened to so and so?" They confirmed to me that they were so and so, and I was like, "Ohhhhhh, that makes sense." It was my first experience really meeting a transgender individual. I had met them before, of course, but I didn't get to know them to the degree that I had in that class. They presented themselves as being such and such, so that's who I really got to know them as. It's who they are, and I didn't think of them any differently.

Anyway, if someone wants to go by a different name or different identity or whatever else, then that's their prerogative. If someone makes a choice that you personally disagree with, as long as it's not necessarily wrong or actively harmful to others or themselves, the very least that any of us can do is respect their choice. I'm no saint, but you don't need to be one in order to show kindness and respect to others. It can be hard, but it's not impossible.

If you're ever unsure about someone's identity, just reach out and ask, "Hey, I'm not sure what you go by, what would like me to call you?" Just because they've changed doesn't mean they aren't the same person, y'know? At the end of the day, we're all the same people we were yesterday just trying to make our way through life on a giant, floating, suspiciously life-sustaining rock in (almost) the middle of nowhere.

I hope I was able to get my points across. And please, don't view this as me attacking you or anyone else, because that's the last thing I'd want. If there's anything that you or someone else doesn't quite understand from my post, I'll be happy to clarify to the best of my ability; you need only ask.

10 hours ago, Benice said:

As an aside, I do hope that me and my thoughts on gender didn't alienate or hurt any non-binary members of the forest; if any of y'all are reading this and I came across as if I am better than any of you or was otherwise hurtful, I sincerely apologize- I wasn't sure if talking about it this openly was a good idea, but I thought it may help with the OP's own conflict. I just wanted to clarify here at the bottom of the post that any sort of conflict I have with gender and identity is a problem with me, not you. It has nothing to do with you, how you identify or how you present yourselves, but with my own mind's path through life.

Don't worry, your post was very well said. I wish I had that kind of eloquence!

Edited by indigoasis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, RLR_FYE said:

Nope this person explicitly flaunted and went on about how they don’t  trust social media with their real name. 

In an way, this is justifiable.

 

 

8 hours ago, RLR_FYE said:

They went by Cthulhu  Elder on Facebook at some point. So unless they self identified as a tentacle monster from an HP Lovecraft Horror novel on the way to being trans, then no I had no way of knowing their latest name was a trans identity

As ridiculous as this is, unless they've publicly announced that they're trans, then you're not at fault until you get to the point where they came out of the closet.

 

8 hours ago, RLR_FYE said:

I will not apologize to someone who spread lies about me

Seriously, though. Cut your losses today and move on if you feel like this will be an ongoing issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, RLR_FYE said:

The fact that you cite my faith as a reason you think I’m a bigot tips your hand as a militant atheist who willfully believes that your mind has been enlightened and freed from the shackles of religion. From what I can gather, you d actually get along better with Christian’s if you actually talked. I mean assuming you’re better than others is per the course for you militant atheist types. 

As I referenced earlier I am an LGBT Christian so your assumptions that I would  turn a blind eye to the suffering of my own community is. Blatant straight bashing. You assumed the best sexual orientation to undermine my opinion. So who here is the bigot exactly? 

 No my issue is you can fight what you see in a slur but you cannot fight what you don’t see in a rumor. It is the invisibility of rumors that makes them so much more evil than prejudice and the Bible agrees with me on that to the point that there is literally nothing more that God hates than a gossip. 

 

And this is an part of the reason why I don't have much of an religion and why it's an bad idea to be open about your faith.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Benice said:

As an aside, I do hope that me and my thoughts on gender didn't alienate or hurt any non-binary members of the forest; if any of y'all are reading this and I came across as if I am better than any of you or was otherwise hurtful, I sincerely apologize- I wasn't sure if talking about it this openly was a good idea, but I thought it may help with the OP's own conflict. I just wanted to clarify here at the bottom of the post that any sort of conflict I have with gender and identity is a problem with me, not you. It has nothing to do with you, how you identify or how you present yourselves, but with my own mind's path through life.

From my own (non-binary) perspective, you've said nothing wrong or hurtful. I appreciate you sharing your story. I had my own journey of growing up in a religious LGBT-phobic setting, to coming into accepting those people and understanding myself.

As a side note, very cool profile pic. Can't wait for the nirvanA Initiative to come out!

5 hours ago, RLR_FYE said:

Before the rumor? Their trans name. After the rumor? I got a lot of choice nicknames for liars that I would love to try out. None  of them are transphobic but not exactly flattering. 

I just want to be sure - is the "rumor" they spread that "you are transphobic, because you called them by their deadname"?

If so, this might not be a rumor borne out of malice, but a sincere warning based on their perception of you. That's not to say they were right to say it - but if I heard someone saying nasty things about me behind my back (yes, calling a trans person by their former name comes across as quite nasty, even if it was never intended as such), then I would likely react quite defensively, and perhaps make some unfair assumptions. Maybe this old friend is viewing you in the same negative light that you're viewing them.

I've tried to be understanding, but I'm going to take my kid gloves off for a second to say: Grow the fuck up. Name-calling, really? Sure, you're entitled to be hurt and angry at this other person. But that doesn't mean that they're not entitled to their own identity and sense of self. If you really can't refer to them by their own name, and come to them willing to communicate, then don't come back to them at all. You'll only hurt them, and probably yourself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

 

I just want to be sure - is the "rumor" they spread that "you are transphobic, because you called them by their deadname"?

If so, this might not be a rumor borne out of malice, but a sincere warning based on their perception of you. That's not to say they were right to say it - but if I heard someone saying nasty things about me behind my back (yes, calling a trans person by their former name comes across as quite nasty, even if it was never intended as such), then I would likely react quite defensively, and perhaps make some unfair assumptions. Maybe this old friend is viewing you in the same negative light that you're viewing them.

I've tried to be understanding, but I'm going to take my kid gloves off for a second to say: Grow the fuck up. Name-calling, really? Sure, you're entitled to be hurt and angry at this other person. But that doesn't mean that they're not entitled to their own identity and sense of self. If you really can't refer to them by their own name, and come to them willing to communicate, then don't come back to them at all. You'll only hurt them, and probably yourself.

If they talk I will hear them out but if it was me, I would address the person directly. not spend 10 years talking smack. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

From my own (non-binary) perspective, you've said nothing wrong or hurtful. I appreciate you sharing your story. 

 

5 hours ago, indigoasis said:

Don't worry, your post was very well said. I wish I had that kind of eloquence!

Phew, thank goodness.

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

had my own journey of growing up in a religious LGBT-phobic setting, to coming into accepting those people and understanding myself.

Wow. Going through with that sort of thing must take a lot more courage than I've got.

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

As a side note, very cool profile pic. Can't wait for the nirvanA Initiative to come out!

Indeed! Serious Discussion probably isn't the best place to discuss it, but I am Seriously Excited for it!

37 minutes ago, RLR_FYE said:

If they talk I will hear them out but if it was me, I would address the person directly. not spend 10 years talking smack. 

Matey, you're allowed to be upset by this person spreading rumours about you. However, if you're gonna go with the "My apology is paid for" stance in a situation where you, even if it was by accident, started the situation, you're not going to be able to anything except add fuel to the slanderer's fire.

To put it in another way, if person A throws eggs at person B's house, and person B reacts by setting fire to person A's house, the court isn't going to care that arson is worse than throwing eggs at someone's house-Person A still threw 'em.

Imagine now that society as a whole is the court. If you, then, accidentally threw eggs at person B's house and then person B started saying that you're a violent criminal, the court will be much more inclined to believe person B than you, since their assertion has a basis in fact based on what they've seen from you, then. Person B potentially even believes this, and is saying it in order to warn others of you, even if you had no intent to harm. If your response to the accusation of being called a criminal is to say "There's a special place in hell waiting for the person who said that" or "My apology is paid for", Person B is even less likely to recant what they've said about you since your actions are further validating their line of thought, and the court of society, too, is more likely to agree with Person B. Even if your intention was never once to egg Person B's house, Person B has a reason to fear you if they interpreted the egging as a warning for future actions.

If you then also add that Person B is part of a vulnerable minority, it makes things look especially bad for you. In this case, telling the court something like "Sorry, pal. I'd never meant to throw eggs at your house- I understand why you could think that I'm dangerous, but I didn't want to hurt you. It was just a mistake, and I apologize for what I did wrong, even if I don't forgive you for jumping the gun and telling everyone I'm dangerous" would be a lot more likely to make them see what your intentions were and stop thinking that you're dangerous, or that you're not being intentionally harmful. Ignoring your own mistake and carrying on about Person B's, though, would just make the court less sympathetic to you, more likely to buy into the story being told by Person B, and make Person B feel more justified in carrying on.

 

Or, to put it concisely, if you're upset with someone misinterpreting what you said, the solution to the problem is to clarify things with the person.

I understand that ASD or bipolar can make these sorts of things difficult, and I hope you'll be able to get through the manic periods.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Benice said:

 

Phew, thank goodness.

Wow. Going through with that sort of thing must take a lot more courage than I've got.

Indeed! Serious Discussion probably isn't the best place to discuss it, but I am Seriously Excited for it!

Matey, you're allowed to be upset by this person spreading rumours about you. However, if you're gonna go with the "My apology is paid for" stance in a situation where you, even if it was by accident, started the situation, you're not going to be able to anything except add fuel to the slanderer's fire.

To put it in another way, if person A throws eggs at person B's house, and person B reacts by setting fire to person A's house, the court isn't going to care that arson is worse than throwing eggs at someone's house-Person A still threw 'em.

Imagine now that society as a whole is the court. If you, then, accidentally threw eggs at person B's house and then person B started saying that you're a violent criminal, the court will be much more inclined to believe person B than you, since their assertion has a basis in fact based on what they've seen from you, then. Person B potentially even believes this, and is saying it in order to warn others of you, even if you had no intent to harm. If your response to the accusation of being called a criminal is to say "There's a special place in hell waiting for the person who said that" or "My apology is paid for", Person B is even less likely to recant what they've said about you since your actions are further validating their line of thought, and the court of society, too, is more likely to agree with Person B. Even if your intention was never once to egg Person B's house, Person B has a reason to fear you if they interpreted the egging as a warning for future actions.

If you then also add that Person B is part of a vulnerable minority, it makes things look especially bad for you. In this case, telling the court something like "Sorry, pal. I'd never meant to throw eggs at your house- I understand why you could think that I'm dangerous, but I didn't want to hurt you. It was just a mistake, and I apologize for what I did wrong, even if I don't forgive you for jumping the gun and telling everyone I'm dangerous" would be a lot more likely to make them see what your intentions were and stop thinking that you're dangerous, or that you're not being intentionally harmful. Ignoring your own mistake and carrying on about Person B's, though, would just make the court less sympathetic to you, more likely to buy into the story being told by Person B, and make Person B feel more justified in carrying on.

 

Or, to put it concisely, if you're upset with someone misinterpreting what you said, the solution to the problem is to clarify things with the person.

I understand that ASD or bipolar can make these sorts of things difficult, and I hope you'll be able to get through the manic periods.

Fair enough.

At this point upon much self reflection I’m embracing a new gender identity.

I don’t believe in gender be it cis or trans so why would I have one?

Agender feels like a good fit because I don’t really consider myself or anyone else male or female. I consider them speaking spirits in  physical vessels and spirits have no gender.
 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...