Will this be your first Musou/Warriors game?

[PostZordem]

I've played Hyrule Warriors (Wii U), Age of Calamity, and a little bit of Persona 5 Strikers. So, Three Hopes will be my fourth Warriors game. I've never played the first Fire Emblem Warriors title (of the same name), but I'm considering getting that one as well so that I can have both Fire Emblem Warriors games. 

I found Hyrule Warriors to be a good title, though I never got the chance to finish the game because I've lost my Wii U copy of it a while back. I'm thinking of getting the Definitive Edition of the game on Switch since it's got all of the content from the other versions and then some. I played all the way through Age of Calamity and found the game to be overall better than its predecessor, but the way the story played out in AoC kind of killed my enjoyment of the game a bit. I haven't played much of P5S despite loving Persona 5 Royal, which is something that I plan to rectify in the future. 

I already put in a preorder for Three Hopes in the "hope" that I'll get a lot of enjoyment out of playing it once it releases. I loved Three Houses, so finding out that there would be another game involving the cast and world of 3H got me excited for Three Hopes. Everything I've seen so far of the game seems rather promising, and I hope that the developers of the game can deliver a truly amazing game that'll be as good or better than Three Houses.

[vanguard333]

If I decide to buy this and actually play it, then yes; it will be my first warriors game. I've never really been a fan of Warriors gameplay (as in that it simply doesn't grab my attention or interest; I have no opinion on its quality as I haven't played the games), so a Warriors game would have to do something really interesting to grab my attention, and that hasn't really been the case. 

1. Hyrule Warriors initially grabbed my attention from being Hyrule Warriors, but not enough for me to purchase it, and Xenoblade Chronicles X released at around the same time and the person at the store recommended that I play that instead. It was a smart choice as I ended up really enjoying Xenoblade Chronicles X.

2. Fire Emblem Warriors failed to get as far as getting my attention, as I was immediately disappointed by the lack of Tellius characters. It was the second of two crossovers to only use Shadow Dragon and Awakening characters, and it was frustrating. How does someone make a Fire Emblem Warriors game and not include Ike: the FE character best-suited for a Warriors crossover?

3. Then came Age of Calamity, and that game definitely got my attention: from the very first announcement video for it, promising a prequel to Breath of the Wild where we'd experience the events of the Great Calamity, I was hyped. I didn't care much for Warriors gameplay, but I remembered that flashback in Breath of the Wild where Link singlehandedly slew a small army of monsters that included several Lynels and I thought that the Warriors gameplay would be perfect for a BOTW prequel that would depict the events of the Great Calamity; the idea of essentially a Zelda version of games like Halo Reach, Final Fantasy Crisis Core and Torna: the Golden Country was extremely exciting.

Then came the first red flag in the form of the demo, which showed Terrako travel back in time. I didn't actually play the demo because I was busy with other things at the time, but I heard about what was shown in the demo, and I immediately became suspicious of the game. Nintendo kept claiming on their website and in all the trailers that this was going to be a prequel and that it would show what happened 100 years before Breath of the Wild, so I decided that I would wait until the game came out and find out the truth before deciding whether or not to purchase the game, and I'm glad I did, as it meant I was saved from getting ripped off by Nintendo's blatant false-advertising. When I found out the truth, I thought, "Well, there goes the only reason I was interested in the game" and decided not to buy it, and I don't regret that decision.

 

Three Hopes mercifully doesn't have any pretentions of being anything other than a what-if narrative, so there hopefully won't be any false-advertising there, but it does mean that the game is going to have to do something really interesting to get me to consider purchasing it.

Edited May 29, 2022 by vanguard333

[ThePrimeOne]

Not for me, I've played both Hyrule Warriors, Fire Emblem Warriors, Pirate Warriors 3+4 and Dynasty Warriors 8.

I also played Persona 5 Strikers, but that game was terribly boring so I usually forget that I played it at all.

[tipperthescales]

I've played HW / FEW / AoC and Fate/Extella Link.

I have seen short snippets of a friend playing DW 4(?), but not personally played.

[Fabulously Olivier]

6 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

If I decide to buy this and actually play it, then yes. I've never really been a fan of Warriors gameplay, so a Warriors game would have to do something really interesting to grab my attention, and that hasn't really been the case. 

That's... a pretty bad contradiction, fam. "I'm not a fan of Warriors gameplay, b-but it's not like I've ever played one b-baka!"

 

But it is typical. Most people who hate these games seem to have formed their opinion entirely off of youtubers/critics.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Fabulously Olivier

[Florete]

8 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

But it is typical. Most people who hate these games seem to have formed their opinion entirely off of youtubers/critics.

I was guilty of this at first. I was very skeptical about getting Hyrule Warriors because all I'd ever heard about Warriors games was that they're mindless button mashers, but my brother convinced me to give it a shot (we split games often) and I ended up loving it, sinking a couple hundred hours each into both the Wii U and Switch releases.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Florete

[vanguard333]

3 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

That's... a pretty bad contradiction, fam. "I'm not a fan of Warriors gameplay, b-but it's not like I've ever played one b-baka!"

 

But it is typical. Most people who hate these games seem to have formed their opinion entirely off of youtubers/critics.

By "not a fan", I meant "not very interested in it/it doesn't look particularly appealing or interesting to me", not "I dislike it". It's never grabbed my attention and made me think, "that looks fun!"

 

I don't hate or dislike Warriors games; they just haven't looked very interesting, and I formed that opinion on my own from trailers and gameplay footage.

[Seazas]

I saw an opportunity and couldn't resist

"I hate Warriors games!"

Olivier:

:

[Azz]

This will be my fourth. Like most people here, I've played the Nintendo Warriors games.

My first was FEW, which I enjoyed quite a lot and have mostly 100%ed (in that I've beaten every map. Haven't gotten every character fully maxed out tho, didn't bother after I finished all the maps). I then got HW:DE which took me a while to get into when I first got it and I barely played it until recently where I've sunken in about 60 hours and am just about to beat the first Adventure Mode map. Then I got AoC which I really enjoyed and did actually 100% (completed everything on the map and got all characters to level 100. In fairness tho, AoC is a lot easier to 100% than FEW or HW:DE).

My favourite of the bunch, and the one I hope Three Hopes takes the most cues from is AoC. I liked the character progression (called for a lot less annoying material grinding) and I never really got burnt out. HW:DE, as much as I have been enjoying it, is a bit bloated and overwhelming for me and how I like to play games. FEW is a happy medium imo, tho, in terms of actually playing with the characters, I find FEW to be the most mediocre and less satisfying.

I still think every Nintendo Warriors game has improved on the previous and has taken what works with its predecessor and incorporated it in a new, fresh way and I can only images Three Hopes will build on what AoC has built on.

[Fabulously Olivier]

6 hours ago, Seazas said:

I saw an opportunity and couldn't resist

"I hate Warriors games!"

Olivier:

:

Yeah, I can see how it would be condescending. But Warriors fans are prone to develop that reaction reflexively because it's 1) usually true and 2) the series is so popular to hate on that it gets exhausting.

 

You know how Smash players dogpile Fire Emblem and it sucks? Warriors gets that from pretty much everyone, all the time.

[Seazas]

21 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Yeah, I can see how it would be condescending. But Warriors fans are prone to develop that reaction reflexively because it's 1) usually true and 2) the series is so popular to hate on that it gets exhausting.

 

You know how Smash players dogpile Fire Emblem and it sucks? Warriors gets that from pretty much everyone, all the time.

Sorry if it looks like I'm calling you out. I just got reminded of that meme when you brought up youtubers, it was funny.

[EarthboundAddict]

I know how it feels to get really defensive over warriors. Everytime I bring up that I'm into it I feel the need to justify that it's more challenging then what the trailers make it look like

[Florete]

I don't remember what site it was, but I recall once reading an article criticizing Nintendo for letting Koei Tecmo make Warriors games of their franchises (yes, you read that right; criticizing Nintendo) and describing Warriors games as, "Press the same button until you win." With stuff like that going around I can't blame Warriors fans for getting defensive.

[vanguard333]

8 hours ago, Seazas said:

I saw an opportunity and couldn't resist

"I hate Warriors games!"

Olivier:

:

Funny meme, but I didn't say anything about hating Warriors games; I just said that the gameplay footage I've seen has never grabbed my attention enough to make me want to play the games. The whole thing was just a misunderstanding stemming from me phrasing my opinion poorly.

[Fabulously Olivier]

49 minutes ago, Florete said:

I don't remember what site it was, but I recall once reading an article criticizing Nintendo for letting Koei Tecmo make Warriors games of their franchises (yes, you read that right; criticizing Nintendo) and describing Warriors games as, "Press the same button until you win." With stuff like that going around I can't blame Warriors fans for getting defensive.

That is actually emblematic of the worst of it. Criticism is fine, but it is considered acceptable discourse to get mad at these games for continuing to exist, and continuing to "waste" whatever license they're working with. You can find it in pretty much any comment section for near any article discussing these games. I cannot think of another franchise that people openly wish to end. Even the likes of FIFA and CoD are more often met with calls for improvement, not termination, and those franchises actively take advantage of people.

 

1 hour ago, Seazas said:

Sorry if it looks like I'm calling you out. I just got reminded of that meme when you brought up youtubers, it was funny.

I laughed. Did you happen to just have it on hand for a rainy day?

[Dark Holy Elf]

I may need to steal that meme, thank you for that @Seazas.

Three Hopes will be the fourth Warriors game I plan to play extensively. I was pretty skeptical of Warriors games for a while. I played a bit of Dynasty Warriors... 5, I believe, back in the day (might have been 4?), and it didn't really click with me - the concept of mowing down enemy soldiers by the hundreds didn't sit well with me, and tbh still doesn't if I'm being honest. Hyrule Warriors though, I was able to get into, despite not being a big Zelda fan. I got really into it, loved the strategy map elements combined with combat which, while not on the level of something like Bayonetta, is better than its detractors give it credit for.

Fire Emblem Warriors came out and as a big FE fan it was a no-brainer purchase. I've also played AoC. I didn't end up liking either as much as the original HW, but I enjoyed them enough that I don't even have to think twice about picking up one based on one of my favourite games of all time.

[Seazas]

1 hour ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

That is actually emblematic of the worst of it. Criticism is fine, but it is considered acceptable discourse to get mad at these games for continuing to exist, and continuing to "waste" whatever license they're working with. You can find it in pretty much any comment section for near any article discussing these games. I cannot think of another franchise that people openly wish to end. Even the likes of FIFA and CoD are more often met with calls for improvement, not termination, and those franchises actively take advantage of people.

 

I laughed. Did you happen to just have it on hand for a rainy day?

Yeah I did, I couldn't not use it lmao.

31 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I may need to steal that meme, thank you for that Seazas.

Three Hopes will be the fourth Warriors game I plan to play extensively. I was pretty skeptical of Warriors games for a while. I played a bit of Dynasty Warriors... 5, I believe, back in the day (might have been 4?), and it didn't really click with me - the concept of mowing down enemy soldiers by the hundreds didn't sit well with me, and tbh still doesn't if I'm being honest. Hyrule Warriors though, I was able to get into, despite not being a big Zelda fan. I got really into it, loved the strategy map elements combined with combat which, while not on the level of something like Bayonetta, is better than its detractors give it credit for.

Fire Emblem Warriors came out and as a big FE fan it was a no-brainer purchase. I've also played AoC. I didn't end up liking either as much as the original HW, but I enjoyed them enough that I don't even have to think twice about picking up one based on one of my favourite games of all time.

You're welcome!

[PostZordem]

4 hours ago, Seazas said:

Yeah I did, I couldn't not use it lmao.

It certainly gave me a good chuckle. Opportunity well-utilized. 

6 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Funny meme, but I didn't say anything about hating Warriors games; I just said that the gameplay footage I've seen has never grabbed my attention enough to make me want to play the games. The whole thing was just a misunderstanding stemming from me phrasing my opinion poorly.

You should give it a shot. Mowing down 100s of enemies (along with doing objectives and taking over enemy bases + defending your own) is more fun and complex than you may think. I may not be the biggest fan of the Warriors games myself, but I can tell that there's passion and creativity put into these games by the developers, which is something that's lacking with certain Triple-A Titles nowadays. The Warriors games are certainly growing on me, and I can appreciate and respect them for what they are. I hope that you give at least one of the Warriors games a chance, regardless of whether you end up enjoying it or not, because there's a possibility that you may become a fan of the series yourself.

8 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Warriors fans are prone to develop that reaction reflexively because it's 1) usually true and 2) the series is so popular to hate on that it gets exhausting.

You know how Smash players dogpile Fire Emblem and it sucks? Warriors gets that from pretty much everyone, all the time.

It really sucks that a YouTuber/Critic can singlehandedly prevent somebody from enjoying a game (or even an entire game series) just through an opinion that influences that person to not buy a game that they could have potentially enjoyed otherwise. I prefer to not look up reviews or articles of a game myself so that I can formulate my own opinion when I play it for the first time, and thanks to that I've managed to enjoy plenty of games such as Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age, Triangle Strategy, and Hyrule Warriors. 

I thought that the Fire Emblem hate by Smash fans (Especially the ones who never played a single Fire Emblem title) was bad enough, but if the Warriors games are getting hated on far more frequently, then I'm sorry to all the Warriors fans that have to see one of their favorite series get shat on on a consistent basis. It's truly not fair that other game series (like the ones you mentioned) aren't getting more hate that they (honestly) deserve, while game series like Warriors and Fire Emblem (at least within the Smash community) aren't getting more love.

Edited May 29, 2022 by CyberZord

[Seazas]

God I just hope that Three Hopes is hugely successful. I'm going to be upset if the original Warriors sells better than it when this is an improvement in every way.

[Fabulously Olivier]

6 hours ago, Seazas said:

God I just hope that Three Hopes is hugely successful. I'm going to be upset if the original Warriors sells better than it when this is an improvement in every way.

My sales forecast for this game is somewhere in the 1.3 to 1.5 million. Persona 5 Strikers seems like a fair comparison to me since the two franchises are equal in popularity. I figure they'll be happy if they pull that off.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Fabulously Olivier

[HK Motendra]

I've quite a number of them on my belt, actually.

Dw: 4, 5, 6E, 7XL, 8

Gundam: 1, 3 & Reborn

Orochi: 3 & Ultimate

HW: DE & AoC

FEW

P5Strikers

 

@Sbuscoz I'm so glad I'm not the only one who remembers the Ultimate Ninja Impact series. Those were loads of fun!

[Fabulously Olivier]

14 hours ago, EarthboundAddict said:

I know how it feels to get really defensive over warriors. Everytime I bring up that I'm into it I feel the need to justify that it's more challenging then what the trailers make it look like

My attitude is not to justify them as more challenging, but rather to spit on the challenge conversation entirely. It's literally not the point. Challenge is not inherently desirable to everyone, some games are meant to be less challenging by design, and if these games suddenly decided to become literally Dark Souls, I would stop playing them entirely.

 

And that is what makes them a perfect formula for licensed spinoffs. They're empowering and accessible. With a fighting game or Souls-like spinoff, the average player may not click with it at all, let alone as the characters they actually want to play. With a Warriors spinoff, anyone can have a good time, and (almost) every character is intuitive and viable enough to click with anyone. That's a good thing in my opinion. We need more games that provide positive reinforcement.

[SMinairo]

6 hours ago, HK Motendra said:

@Sbuscoz I'm so glad I'm not the only one who remembers the Ultimate Ninja Impact series. Those were loads of fun!

Yeah! And since it was done by CC2 it had lots of quick time events that made it feel pretty cinematic, similar to the storm games.

[Fabulously Olivier]

36 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

Yeah! And since it was done by CC2 it had lots of quick time events that made it feel pretty cinematic, similar to the storm games.

The days of anime getting games other than factory-made arena fighters sure were great. These days, you basically have to be One Piece to also get anything else (speaking of which, that upcoming turn-based JRPG looks awesome).

Edited May 29, 2022 by Fabulously Olivier

[Zapp Branniglenn]

13 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

That is actually emblematic of the worst of it. Criticism is fine, but it is considered acceptable discourse to get mad at these games for continuing to exist, and continuing to "waste" whatever license they're working with. You can find it in pretty much any comment section for near any article discussing these games. I cannot think of another franchise that people openly wish to end. Even the likes of FIFA and CoD are more often met with calls for improvement, not termination, and those franchises actively take advantage of people.

I've been on the internet gaming space for more years than Youtube has been around, so I can confirm that among dead horses, these were a steed of choice to beat on among the hardcore-est of gamers still prowling the message boards into the late 2000s/2010s. Especially at a time when franchises didn't release with such frequency and re-release with so few surface-level revisions. In a pre-Call of Duty 4-changes-the-shape-of-casual-gaming-industry, the yearly release or yearly re-release just wasn't normal now that games generally took several years of development to come out. Heck even FIFA and Call of Duty limited themselves to one release per year at their respective peaks, and they certainly never released a Fifa 2008 Legends in 2009, or a Modern Warfare 3 Empires the same year Black Ops 2 came out. I mean why bother when you've got an entirely new release lined up, and DLC to push out for some easy milking of each entry? 

And yeah the increasingly brain dead experience of Musou gameplay didn't ever go unnoticed. It's literally the first thing somebody will point out to you from behind the couch when playing these games in public: Why are these crowds of people just standing around waiting to die? Do they ever attack you? A licensed Warriors game based off a Strategy RPG felt like the epitome of irony. What strategy is there that isn't being shouted at you by by NPCs in the corner who are always 30 seconds behind on important information since they're too busy complimenting your square square triangle. My only game overs in Hyrule Warriors were me not being meticulously proactive about sifting through sub menus of the pause screen to check my main base or allied captain's health every couple of minutes - information that should really be onscreen at all times if it results in a game over in a ten minute map with no checkpoints. It's more important than my own actual health bar since that at least can be recovered. It's "Difficulty" on the same level of Arcade fighting games ramping up the AI when they decide it's been a while since you put in a quarter. But in KT's case they're just padding out the playtime with these unpredictable, artificial difficulty spikes.

Honestly the musou games went largely ignored on Youtube. Even the terrible voice acting went unnoticed by the Youtube Poop content creation zeitgeist. Jim Sterling is the first (only?) big Youtuber to not only show it off but to spin it with actually this was WHY I liked the games. They also have a lot to say about the experience of being a Warriors fan over the years. That remains the only video I've seen that recaps these games' history in a way that isn't overlooking KT's oversaturation grifts over the years (instead of dishonestly singling out the most recent Musou entry as being "the bad one") and it barely even mentions the licensed game side hustle. Warriors was - whether we liked it or not - one of precious few followups to the 90s arcade beat em up genre that otherwise only lived on in God of War, Devil May Cry, and their associated 'clone' games.

But I was one of those message board weirdos that saw himself as being above the grift. Being one of those dorks saying that the likes of Dragon Quest, Legend of Zelda, and Fire Emblem were "too sacred. Too successful. Too prestige to say yes to the Warriors spinoff". Then Nintendo and Square both prove me wrong. Even more annoying is Hyrule Warriors having a lot to like as a fan of Zelda. That was a surprise. Fire Emblem Warriors was a disappointment from a fan's perspective, but it addressed the previous game with its innovation of having multiple characters you can order to different positions of the map. Sure they won't do anything on their own, but having functional "warp points" at defensive positions you can use to avoid the cheesy game over is game changing, and allows for one small element of strategy and long term planning. And wouldn't you know it, I've begun looking at the game's on an individual level rather than as a Pejorative genre. Kirby Star Warriors when?