LGBT+ Representation in Fire Emblem

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Yeah but my point was that their backgrounds are irrelevant to how they portrayed those roles, because they're just generally good voice actors. In this specific example, the Chinese guy died during the filming of the second season and was replaced by a white guy, and I dobt many if any in the target audience noticed the difference without first being told.

Mako Iwamatsu was Japanese-American, not Chinese. Not as though this contradicts the general thrust of your argument, but as an Avatar fan and general voice acting afficionado, I feel the need to set the record straight.

[lenticular]

One thing that is relevant for actors is how much time they have to prepare for the role. Consider accents, as an example. Let's say that we need an accent who can do an Indian English accent. Now, pretty much any talented actor working with a talented dialect coach and given enough time to prepare will be able to learn the accent extremely well. Sure, an expert would probably be able to point out a few slight inaccuracies, but overall, they'd be able to do a damn good job of it. On the other hand if they're just handed a script and told that they start recording the next day so they should spend the evening listening to a few recordings and practicing in front of a mirror, then their accent is going to suck. Exactly how much it sucks will depend on the actor, but it is going to suck. Accurately mimicing accents is hard.

Unless, of course, the actor is actually from India and is a native speaker of Indian English. In that case, they wouldn't actually need any time to prepare at all. They could just do it, and do it even more flawlessly than the hypothetical non-Indian actor who had spent the last 6 months preparing. Obviously.

The same, I think, can be true for life experience. If an actor is asked to portray something that is far outside their life experience then they need time to prepare. They need to get into the charater's headspace and understand their motivations in order to know what sort of inflections and emotions to deliver their lines with (and yes, obviously some of that comes from the director, but not all). And any talented actor can do that if they have time, but when time is short, being able to draw on personal experience definitely doesn't hurt.

Now, I don't know how much time voice actors have to prepare for their roles in Fire Emblem games, but my guess would be "not as much as they'd like". They're typically working on quite a tight time schedule since they have -- to some extent -- to fit around development, writing and localisation and a worldwide release date for the game.

Since this is Fire Emblem, these issues don't come up too often. In a fantasy world, it doesn't really matter if accents are a bit off. It doesn't actually matter how good Gregor's Russian accent is, because he doesn't actually have a Russian accent. He has an accent from whatever region of Ferox he's from, which just happen to sound somewhat Russian. And since we're in a high fantasy faux-medieval world, there aren't that many personal experiences that can easily apply. But that doesn't mean that there aren't any. Going back to the original topic of this thread, one of the reasons that I like Dorothea so much as a character is the authenticity that Allegra Clarke was able to bring to the role, since she herself is a bisexual woman. And that isn't to say that straight (or lesbian or asexual) women couldn't have potentially performed the role just as well, but I don't think they could have done so as naturally. What Clarke had an intuitive understanding of, other actors may have needed to work on, and may not have had the time to do so.

[Jotari]

11 hours ago, DaveCozy said:

This is a good example and is actually what I've been trying to say in relation to diversity when casting 😛

Yeah but my point was that their backgrounds are irrelevant to how they portrayed those roles, because they're just generally good voice actors. In this specific example, the Chinese guy died during the filming of the second season and was replaced by a white guy, and I dobt many if any in the target audience noticed the difference without first being told. Because the skin colour of the person providing the voice had no bearing on how the character actually spoke.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Jotari

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Mako Iwamatsu was Japanese-American, not Chinese. Not as though this contradicts the general thrust of your argument, but as an Avatar fan and general voice acting afficionado, I feel the need to set the record straight.

Ah. My mistake...But idk I think that almost makes my point as I wouldn't be able to tell the different just listening to the voice. I didn't even know Dante Bosco was ethnically Filipino either until this year when I saw him in a Filipino movie. I guess I defaulted to Chinese because Iroh himself plays towards a lot of Chinese stereotypes, though there is a lot of Mr Migai in him too (side note, while other people identiynhim as Japanese, my Moyagi never once refers to himself as such in the original movies. He always calls himself Okinawan).

2 hours ago, lenticular said:

One thing that is relevant for actors is how much time they have to prepare for the role. Consider accents, as an example. Let's say that we need an accent who can do an Indian English accent. Now, pretty much any talented actor working with a talented dialect coach and given enough time to prepare will be able to learn the accent extremely well. Sure, an expert would probably be able to point out a few slight inaccuracies, but overall, they'd be able to do a damn good job of it. On the other hand if they're just handed a script and told that they start recording the next day so they should spend the evening listening to a few recordings and practicing in front of a mirror, then their accent is going to suck. Exactly how much it sucks will depend on the actor, but it is going to suck. Accurately mimicing accents is hard.

Unless, of course, the actor is actually from India and is a native speaker of Indian English. In that case, they wouldn't actually need any time to prepare at all. They could just do it, and do it even more flawlessly than the hypothetical non-Indian actor who had spent the last 6 months preparing. Obviously.

The same, I think, can be true for life experience. If an actor is asked to portray something that is far outside their life experience then they need time to prepare. They need to get into the charater's headspace and understand their motivations in order to know what sort of inflections and emotions to deliver their lines with (and yes, obviously some of that comes from the director, but not all). And any talented actor can do that if they have time, but when time is short, being able to draw on personal experience definitely doesn't hurt.

Now, I don't know how much time voice actors have to prepare for their roles in Fire Emblem games, but my guess would be "not as much as they'd like". They're typically working on quite a tight time schedule since they have -- to some extent -- to fit around development, writing and localisation and a worldwide release date for the game.

Since this is Fire Emblem, these issues don't come up too often. In a fantasy world, it doesn't really matter if accents are a bit off. It doesn't actually matter how good Gregor's Russian accent is, because he doesn't actually have a Russian accent. He has an accent from whatever region of Ferox he's from, which just happen to sound somewhat Russian. And since we're in a high fantasy faux-medieval world, there aren't that many personal experiences that can easily apply. But that doesn't mean that there aren't any. Going back to the original topic of this thread, one of the reasons that I like Dorothea so much as a character is the authenticity that Allegra Clarke was able to bring to the role, since she herself is a bisexual woman. And that isn't to say that straight (or lesbian or asexual) women couldn't have potentially performed the role just as well, but I don't think they could have done so as naturally. What Clarke had an intuitive understanding of, other actors may have needed to work on, and may not have had the time to do so.

I think if we do need more diversity in voice acting for games it's diversity in production staff. Xenoblade had a British voice cast rather than an American one due to its initial release in Europe, and while not exactly sure wether it was literally produced in the UK, the following games did lean into that (maybe a little bit too colourfully). Having some British accents and an overall new set of voices was nice, and I think that's kind if what Dave Cozy is getting at, but ultimately that's not down to the skin colour of any individual actors.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Jotari

[ZeManaphy]

Spoilers for Three Hopes: 

 

Spoiler

Arval’s gender seems to be unknown: As a bonus unit, their classes are determined Shez’s gender: Arval is treated as Male is Shez is Male, and the converse is the same for Female Shez. Additionally being voiced by a female actress, they are mind of a male character. I wonder if this makes Arval gender fluid ?

 

[jameslove001]

I really enjoyed this entire thread. I know that it is inferred that Alfonse and Veronica are inevitable, star-crossed lovers, but to me, he seems pretty Ace. Coming from a very religious upbringing, Shinon reeks of over compensation to cover his true self. In all honesty I can read Soren as either gay or loyal and am not offended by either choice. Three Houses is a bit messy, but it is hard from me to see the Sylvain-Felix thing, only from Sylvain's side. And I think that Fire Emblem is at least trying to adapt. I also understand that we have to give room for Japanese culture, and not just demand from our current American perspectives. Obviously a lot needs to be done, but at least I am glad they are trying.

[Jotari]

17 minutes ago, jameslove001 said:

I really enjoyed this entire thread. I know that it is inferred that Alfonse and Veronica are inevitable, star-crossed lovers, but to me, he seems pretty Ace.

What? I dont get those vibes at all. She's like eleven. Even their hypothetical future selves are just working together out of convenience without any mutual affection.

[jameslove001]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

What? I dont get those vibes at all. She's like eleven. Even their hypothetical future selves are just working together out of convenience without any mutual affection.

I love how different are reads are, UNLESS, you are right and she is eleven, then I retract EVERYTHING, because that isn't okay at that point. I have always assumed that she just looked young but was comparable to Sharena in age. But, now that you mention it the current book with her cousin does make her seem pretty young. Xander talks about her being young. Sharena infers she is young with the brat comment. You may have just flipped my entire foundation of the game on its head.

[Etrurian emperor]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

What? I dont get those vibes at all. She's like eleven. Even their hypothetical future selves are just working together out of convenience without any mutual affection.

Embla aging her up seems to have neatly solved that problem for the writers which I suspect was the very point of aging her up. 

Between their growing friendship, their future selves and the smile they shoot each other in the book VI trailer I think Alfonse and Veronica are low key being set up by the writers. Though the age difference definitely always made that very awkward. Veronica is confirmed to be 13-ish and while Alfonse age is vague he's probably somewhere around 18.

 

[jameslove001]

15 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Embla aging her up seems to have neatly solved that problem for the writers which I suspect was the very point of aging her up. 

Between their growing friendship, their future selves and the smile they shoot each other in the book VI trailer I think Alfonse and Veronica are low key being set up by the writers. Though the age difference definitely always made that very awkward. Veronica is confirmed to be 13-ish and while Alfonse age is vague he's probably somewhere around 18.

 

I am glad that at least someone else sees it. It took me back to a screenwriting class and how there are classical forms that you follow to indicate certain relational aspects. It just felt like the writers seem pretty focused on Alfonse-Veronica as a couple that can never be. And maybe the age thing is another added level. 

[Jotari]

Nemesis must be gay or infertile or something. As everyone is absolutely convinced he had no kids at all despite being a king for like eighty years.

[Interdimensional Observer]

9 hours ago, Jotari said:

Nemesis must be gay or infertile or something. As everyone is absolutely convinced he had no kids at all despite being a king for like eighty years.

Or it could be was that cold. Basil II "the Bulgar Slayer", of the Eastern Roman/Byzantine Empire, who happens to be the second-best known ruler of the empire after Justinian & Theodora, never married. The reason he supposedly claimed is that a wife would invite political intrigue, and he wouldn't have any of that (though his lackadaisical brother and his children inheriting the throne would undermine the internationally-recognized strength Basil II had brought back to the Byzantine Empire). Basil II was as icy as he was capable.

I would cite Frederick II "the Great" of Brandenburg-Prussia, who had a wife but never loved her and took no mistresses. But, historians do think this misogynist-elitist-irreligious-enlightened despot was likely to have been gay. He comes late enough in history (mid-1700s) with enough surviving written sources to make this assertion, if without a single definitive statement to nail it down.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Interdimensional Observer

[MadBoar]

Cleobulus's realistic impersonation of the Sonia archetype leads me to believe that he is genuinely transgender.