Looking for volunteers for FE Warriors Three Hopes section

[Tediz64]

Okay so my results are based off 7 different combat arts and 4 spells that have small might; 4 combat arts and 2 spells that have medium might, 3 Large might combat arts and 2 spells and my theory and thus far results have shown to be consistent.

Small might CA/spells take 5 uses to get to level 2 and 10 uses after that to get to level 3 (so 15 uses total to go from 1 to 3); Medium might CA/spells take 10 uses to get to level 3 and 15 uses after that to get to level 3 (so 25 uses total to go from 1 to 3); and Large might CA/spells take 15 uses to get level 2 and 20 uses after that to get to level 3 (so 35 uses total to go from 1 to 3); and last but not least self-buffs are treated as Large might so they follow the 15/20 uses rule. I'm also testing class exp gain but will return later when my results are concrete. I just wanted to share the leveling info for CA/spells. I'll head over to the wiki to update it

[Anomalocaris]

27 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

Okay so my results are based off 7 different combat arts and 4 spells that have small might; 4 combat arts and 2 spells that have medium might, 3 Large might combat arts and 2 spells and my theory and thus far results have shown to be consistent.

Small might CA/spells take 5 uses to get to level 2 and 10 uses after that to get to level 3 (so 15 uses total to go from 1 to 3); Medium might CA/spells take 10 uses to get to level 3 and 15 uses after that to get to level 3 (so 25 uses total to go from 1 to 3); and Large might CA/spells take 15 uses to get level 2 and 20 uses after that to get to level 3 (so 35 uses total to go from 1 to 3); and last but not least self-buffs are treated as Large might so they follow the 15/20 uses rule. I'm also testing class exp gain but will return later when my results are concrete. I just wanted to share the leveling info for CA/spells. I'll head over to the wiki to update it

Does this also coincide with durability cost? Most Combat Arts/Spells are either 10, 15, or 20 durability cost by default, with only certain ones exceeding that.

[Tediz64]

1 minute ago, Anomalocaris said:

Does this also coincide with durability cost? Most Combat Arts/Spells are either 10, 15, or 20 durability cost by default, with only certain ones exceeding that.

Using War Strike (the previously known War Master skill but now transferred over to Warrior) as an example being an outlier to the normal 20 cost, it still followed the Large might rule of 15/20 uses. Self buffs such as Battle Trance and and Mortal Struggle also followed the large rule i theorized, and spells such as Restore and Ward also followed the large rule (which checks out with the durability cost). So yes, it coincides with durability cost. When i set out to test all of this, i already had the hypothesis it was based off the combat art/spell's might listing but i had to figure out the buffs/others but then it ended up matching with what i had guessed.

Any outliers  probably follow the large rule but i've yet to truly test it with combat arts from the special weapons such as Balthus' Eviscerate or the exclusive ones such as Claude's. I haven't gotten to mastering those yet so at the moment, i don't have that information. Worst case scenario it might have it's own separate numbers for leveling but given the previous examples it'll probably be something like 20/25 at worst.

[Anomalocaris]

7 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

Using War Strike (the previously known War Master skill but now transferred over to Warrior) as an example being an outlier to the normal 20 cost, it still followed the Large might rule of 15/20 uses. Self buffs such as Battle Trance and and Mortal Struggle also followed the large rule i theorized, and spells such as Restore and Ward also followed the large rule (which checks out with the durability cost). So yes, it coincides with durability cost. When i set out to test all of this, i already had the hypothesis it was based off the combat art/spell's might listing but i had to figure out the buffs/others but then it ended up matching with what i had guessed.

Any outliers  probably follow the large rule but i've yet to truly test it with combat arts from the special weapons such as Balthus' Eviscerate or the exclusive ones such as Claude's. I haven't gotten to mastering those yet so at the moment, i don't have that information. Worst case scenario it might have it's own separate numbers for leveling but given the previous examples it'll probably be something like 20/25 at worst.

So then it might be better to document it by durability cost instead of might, to accomodate self-buffs and healing spells that don't have associated might values.

The only thing that needs testing is stuff with more than 20 durability cost.

[Tediz64]

18 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

So then it might be better to document it by durability cost instead of might, to accomodate self-buffs and healing spells that don't have associated might values.

The only thing that needs testing is stuff with more than 20 durability cost.

When i first set out to test the usage and leveling, it didn't even occur to me that War Strike had more than a 20 durability cost. I just started counting how many times i used it and waited till the result screen to see if it matched. It wasn't until i realized i started a new chapter and had War Strike on a new person and didn't have the meal from the Kitchen taking off 4 dura, that i really started to feel it. It took almost 9 battles to max it out and in my head i was thinking "what the hell is the differnce and why is it taking so long". Then i was holding the button down to pull up the combat arts and saw that big number and immediately face palmed since i didn't document it in my notes. 😅

However, it did still follow the might's listing and ended up with 15/20 uses. At the moment on my current file, i only have access to two combat arts that greatly exceed that durability cost (Balthus' and Edelgard's CA) so once i take those two to max, i'll report back. If you have access to Dimitri's or Claude's (cause i'm currently on a Scarlet Blaze run) unique combat arts, could you test them out? What do you mean document it by durability cost instead of might?

Edit: I realize there is only about 1 combat art per weapon category that exceeds the normal 20 value (and Axe's War Strike can be grabbed by multiple people) so I won't be able to test out the others on my Scarlet Blaze run other than Shez's, Balthus', and the axe one. The lance is excluisve to Dimitri and the bow is exclusive to Claude 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Tediz64
Added a paragraph

[Anomalocaris]

5 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

When i first set out to test the usage and leveling, it didn't even occur to me that War Strike had more than a 20 durability cost. I just started counting how many times i used it and waited till the result screen to see if it matched. It wasn't until i realized i started a new chapter and had War Strike on a new person and didn't have the meal from the Kitchen taking off 4 dura, that i really started to feel it. It took almost 9 battles to max it out and in my head i was thinking "what the hell is the differnce and why is it taking so long". Then i was holding the button down to pull up the combat arts and saw that big number and immediately face palmed since i didn't document it in my notes. 😅

However, it did still follow the might's listing and ended up with 15/20 uses. At the moment on my current file, i only have access to two combat arts that greatly exceed that durability cost (Balthus' and Edelgard's CA) so once i take those two to max, i'll report back. If you have access to Dimitri's or Claude's (cause i'm currently on a Scarlet Blaze run) unique combat arts, could you test them out? What do you mean document it by durability cost instead of might?

I do have Dimitri and Claude's, but Dimitri's already maxxed Atrocity out at Lv.3 and Claude's has made progress and so cannot be fairly tested.

I can give somebody else the Crest of Blaiddyd to see how long it takes to level up Atrocity, though.

Bigger issue I've found now is that the data from the spreadsheet isn't accurate about relic weapon combat arts (It just lists their durability costs as 20/18/16, yet in-game I'm getting some weird values like 22, 19, etc). Gonna need to do some testing on that, but for now I've blanked all the values I cannot confirm with certainty.

[Corran]

2 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

I do have Dimitri and Claude's, but Dimitri's already maxxed Atrocity out at Lv.3 and Claude's has made progress and so cannot be fairly tested.

I can give somebody else the Crest of Blaiddyd to see how long it takes to level up Atrocity, though.

Bigger issue I've found now is that the data from the spreadsheet isn't accurate about relic weapon combat arts (It just lists their durability costs as 20/18/16, yet in-game I'm getting some weird values like 22, 19, etc). Gonna need to do some testing on that, but for now I've blanked all the values I cannot confirm with certainty.

Have we factored in the discounts caused by food buffs?

[Anomalocaris]

2 minutes ago, Corran said:

Have we factored in the discounts caused by food buffs?

Nah, I'm looking at it without any food buffs right now.

Food buffs only discount the cost during battle anyway, I believe.

[Tediz64]

2 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

I do have Dimitri and Claude's, but Dimitri's already maxxed Atrocity out at Lv.3 and Claude's has made progress and so cannot be fairly tested.

I can give somebody else the Crest of Blaiddyd to see how long it takes to level up Atrocity, though.

Bigger issue I've found now is that the data from the spreadsheet isn't accurate about relic weapon combat arts (It just lists their durability costs as 20/18/16, yet in-game I'm getting some weird values like 22, 19, etc). Gonna need to do some testing on that, but for now I've blanked all the values I cannot confirm with certainty.

Well, it seems there are currently known only 5 combat arts (one for each weapon type) and 2 spells (Agnea's Arrow and Quake from Black/Dark respectively) that exceed the 20 durability cost but they do still follow the same leveling requirments as any other Large might combat art (i can atest to the axe one and at a later time i'll also get the gauntlet one and sword one maxed out).

As for self buffs or spells that don't have a might listing, but do cost the same as CA/spell that is listed as Large, we can just note in the page that they are treated as equals to the aforementioned for leveling purposes. 

 

5 minutes ago, Corran said:

Have we factored in the discounts caused by food buffs?

Durability cost in itself doesn't change the requirements for leveling purpose (going to level 2 and then subsequently level 3) cause at the end of the day, you still have to use it to level it up, and i've been keeping close track and counting how many times. However i'd also like to note, i've been keeping the food buff numbers also written down as to how much they discount. The meal that says it slightly reduces takes off 2, and the meal that says "somewhat" reduces it takes off 4 durability. Then there is the matter of the ability known as Armsthrift which also takes about 2 durability off the cost. However as Anomalocaris mentioned, i've also encountered odd numbers (not even numbers) so i've yet to figure how how discounts work when it comes to the food/ability combined. 

I will say, i've been doing most of my training with discounts to durability LATELY but when i first started documenting these things, i made sure to not have the ability equipped or the food in effect. 

[Anomalocaris]

1 minute ago, Tediz64 said:

Well, it seems there are currently known only 5 combat arts (one for each weapon type) and 2 spells (Agnea's Arrow and Quake from Black/Dark respectively) that exceed the 20 durability cost but they do still follow the same leveling requirments as any other Large might combat art (i can atest to the axe one and at a later time i'll also get the gauntlet one and sword one maxed out).

As for self buffs or spells that don't have a might listing, but do cost the same as CA/spell that is listed as Large, we can just note in the page that they are treated as equals to the aforementioned for leveling purposes. 

What I meant was that the wiki could document level-up requirements compared against durability costs, since it's more universally accomodating than might. We just might need to say "Durability cost of 20 or higher", if we're correct that all of those special arts still have the same level-up requirements.

There's also the increased CA experience gain strategy we'll have to account for. I think it might double the exp gain rate.

[Tediz64]

4 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

What I meant was that the wiki could document level-up requirements compared against durability costs, since it's more universally accomodating than might. We just might need to say "Durability cost of 20 or higher", if we're correct that all of those special arts still have the same level-up requirements.

There's also the increased CA experience gain strategy we'll have to account for. I think it might double the exp gain rate.

I haven't gotten that strategy mentioned yet during the beginning of the chapter so I've yet to run the numbers against it but i hope what you say is true since it'll help people grind easier if they just saving leveling for when that chapter arrives and you can select it.

When i first set out to test the leveling requirements for CA/spells I initially broke it into 3 categories in my head. Because putting aside the cost of durability (which could be discounted from numerous sources eg: the level it is currently at, food discount if it is applicable, the ability from the Archer class) they all at least had that in common. Thus I started to count how many times i used them per battle and saw a pattern. I then set out to create my hypothesis it was based off might listing. At a later time when i got my first buff Mortal Struggle i had to look at that one and ask myself what did it have in common with the other ones and saw the durability cost was similar to a Large might CA/spell. As such, i treated it as a large might and saw it had the same usage count to level it up. Once i had tested these same combat arts/spells on numerous characters, i finally reached the conclusion the game had put them into these 3 brackets based off might.

I'd also like to add, that another way i set to test the usage count was the same, was to enter 1 battle and use the theorized number of times exactly (not one more or one less) and watch it go from an empty exp meter at level 1 all the way to the max level 3. So since you can skip using it during level two (with the discount to durability it would otherwise offer), i figured if a  person who is near end-game  and has a forged weapon with 100s of durability and access to a map where you can pick up purple jars, a person can set out to max out combat art/spells in one battle each as long as they have the total number of uses in mind and reach that number. 

I don't think we should compare it against durability cost since that can be clearly be muddied with all the numerous available discounts (the level it is at, food, and the abililty from archer). Instead we should compare it against might listing and simply state that self buffs are treated as a large might, and that the 3 spells (Ward, Silence, and Restore) are also treated as large might for leveling purposes. 

[Corran]

On 7/8/2022 at 4:55 PM, Anomalocaris said:

If you do, can you confirm for us what chapter he unlocks for you?

Azure Gleam's final route-exclusive character (Catherine) doesn't join until Chapter 9, so assuming you recruited everybody else at some point you'd get Gatekeeper after Chapter 9 if our theory is correct.

I can now confirm that I got the gatekeeper in Chapter 5 of Azure Gleam. This seems to confirm that you have to be on your final route(not third playthrough) and then you get him in chapter 5. This is when he first shows up in your camp anyway, as he's not there in chapter 4 on any route.

[Anomalocaris]

14 minutes ago, Corran said:

I can now confirm that I got the gatekeeper in Chapter 5 of Azure Gleam. This seems to confirm that you have to be on your final route(not third playthrough) and then you get him in chapter 5. This is when he first shows up in your camp anyway, as he's not there in chapter 4 on any route.

Good to know. Guess that settles it, he joins in Chapter 5 once you're on your third route (not counting repeats).

15 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

I don't think we should compare it against durability cost since that can be clearly be muddied with all the numerous available discounts (the level it is at, food, and the abililty from archer). Instead we should compare it against might listing and simply state that self buffs are treated as a large might, and that the 3 spells (Ward, Silence, and Restore) are also treated as large might for leveling purposes. 

I disagree with this, I think that durability bracket is more useful a comparison because it applies to buffs and white magic that don't have listed might values. The discounts are irrelevant to the actual bracket it's in, but I was thinking of listing the experience requirements on a per-skill basis anyway. Once I do a little more testing.

Oh, and the "greatly reduced" durability cost meal reduced Atrocity from 44 to 30, and Lightstrike from 10 to 7.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Anomalocaris

[Tediz64]

23 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

I disagree with this, I think that durability bracket is more useful a comparison because it applies to buffs and white magic that don't have listed might values. The discounts are irrelevant to the actual bracket it's in, but I was thinking of listing the experience requirements on a per-skill basis anyway. Once I do a little more testing.

But if we list this way, that will exclude Agnea's Arrow, War Strike, and the exclusive CAs gained from the weapons such as Eviscerate since they follow different durability costs but they do still have a listing of Large in might. You'd have to add in a paragraph stipulating that those that cost more still follow the same rules as those that start off costing 20 at base, where as i'd have to add a paragraph stipulating that self buffs plus 3 spells should be treated as equals to others. Either way we still reach the same result. The only thing left to be tested at this point is which i'm currently working on, the bonus multiplier from the strategy and the unique combat arts gained from weapons.

I've already tested the theory with a handful of characters all using the same named combat arts/spells and kept getting the exact same result. You need 5 and 10 to get to level 2 and 3 respectively for small might, you need 10 and 15 uses to get to level 2 and 3 respectively for medium might, and then you need 15 and 20 uses to get to level 2 and 3 respectively for large might. What led me to my hypothesis that it was tied to might listing, was more or less just a starting point for me to start my experiments. It really isn't that important. All that mattered was i had a starting point, and then after numerous experiments, reached a conclusion. I got to a point where i could share the data with others since it was tested rigorously that way, when others set out to accomplish it, they reach the same result; a maxed out combat art/spell at level 3 with exact number of usages known to save time while grinding

Edited July 13, 2022 by Tediz64
Add half a sentence

[Anomalocaris]

16 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

But if we list this way, that will exclude Agnea's Arrow, War Strike, and the exclusive CAs gained from the weapons such as Eviscerate since they follow different durability costs but they do still have a listing of Large in might. You'd have to add in a paragraph stipulating that those that cost more still follow the same rules as those that start off costing 20 at base, where as i'd have to add a paragraph stipulating that self buffs plus 3 spells should be treated as equals to others. Either way we still reach the same result. The only thing left to be tested at this point is which i'm currently working on, the bonus multiplier from the strategy and the unique combat arts gained from weapons.

I've already tested the theory with a handful of characters all using the same named combat arts/spells and kept getting the exact same result. You need 5 and 10 to get to level 2 and 3 respectively for small might, you need 10 and 15 uses to get to level 2 and 3 respectively for medium might, and then you need 15 and 20 uses to get to level 2 and 3 respectively for large might. What led me to my hypothesis that it was tied to might listing, was more or less just a starting point for me to start my experiments. It really isn't that important. All that mattered was i had a starting point, and then after numerous experiments, reached a conclusion. I got to a point where i could share the data with others since it was tested rigorously that way, when others set out to accomplish it, they reach the same result; a maxed out combat art/spell at level 3. 

I just tested Jeralt with Atrocity; despite having a durability cost of 44, it levelled up after exactly 15 uses, just like a 20 Durability art, so it seems pretty consistent. That's good to know.

I don't think it's specifically tied to might so much that every combat art and spell in the game is internally sorted into three tiers.

• Basic tier which costs 10 durability, takes 15 uses to level-cap, and has small might when it's an attack.
• Intermediate tier which costs 15 durability, takes 25 uses to level cap, and has medium might when it's an attack.
• Advanced tier which costs 20 durability, takes 35 uses to level cap, and has large might when it's an attack.

Some of the special skills, such as those tied to Heroes' Relics, have increased durability cost, but otherwise behave as expected for their tier in every other regard.

Might increases while durability cost decreases with level-ups, but cooldown time seems to stay the same.

I think we might be better off just listing the level-up costs for each art individually, instead of pinning it on might or durability (both of which have exceptions).

Edited July 13, 2022 by Anomalocaris

[Tediz64]

3 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

Assuming our theory is correct, the three brackets for exp gain requirements are "Durability cost of 10", "Durability cost of 15", and "Durability cost of 20 or higher".

I just tested Jeralt with Atrocity; despite having a durability cost of 44, it levelled up after exactly 15 uses, so that seems pretty consistent.

Hey look buddy. I asked VincentASM when the game was coming that i wanted an account so I could made edits and make contributions to this game's wiki page. 3 years from now a person is going to get this game for the first time and have loads of questions. I want people to come to serenes and literally have all the answers readily available to them. I like conducting experiments and researching. I also love this franchise and would be happy to contribute to the community and help out cause i come here often and use the info here while playing so i sure do appreciate all the effort past people put into filling out these pages on numerous FE games. I'd like to do the same thing, but i don't want to do that if i'm gonna get challenged every step of the way. I had asked when the game came out if anyone was going to lead this project (filling out the wiki) and if anyone was going to take charge by assigning us tasks to research so that we don't overlap or waste time with multiple experiments that have the same goal. Now all i can say is that, i won't come here and provide info unless i've tested it RIGOROUSLY and replicated the results. I do in fact use the scientific method and also had numerous pages filled out in contributions to the first Fire Emblem Warriors game so this isn't my first time playing a musou or nintendo brand warriors game. You can be confident in my results cause i wouldn't give them out unless I tested them heavily. People who are likely to stop by and check out serenes's wiki page are likely going to read that data we provide so I will be very clear in how i articulate my words so people can read and comprehend the info we have. So can we work together? Not this nitpicking over word choice or how things are phrased.

Cause both of us would have had to mention and stipulate the few exceptions in combat arts/spells. Saying the durability cost would have or could be misleading because the displayed number could be altered if someone already ate a meal at the camp or has the armsthift ability equipped and then went into their convoy/charater page to view details of the combat art/spell (regardless if they are in camp or are already deployed onto the battlefield). I already thought of this ahead of time (seeing an altered number). If a person who is already the type to come to a wiki such as serenes or a stranger using google gets directed here, after they read the page's details on leveling and see the info, they are going to go back to looking at their game and see their move's details and then proceed to grind so they can max out their stuff. I worded it carefully with that in mind so they can just focus on the grind . I use wiki(s) and guides often so I know what is considered being worded friendly and simple and i make contributions to another site known as fandom on other game franchises so i really put effort into tailoring info for other people's consumption/use. So i ask again, can we work together? 

[Anomalocaris]

7 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

Hey look buddy. I asked VincentASM when the game was coming that i wanted an account so I could made edits and make contributions to this game's wiki page. 3 years from now a person is going to get this game for the first time and have loads of questions. I want people to come to serenes and literally have all the answers readily available to them. I like conducting experiments and researching. I also love this franchise and would be happy to contribute to the community and help out cause i come here often and use the info here while playing so i sure do appreciate all the effort past people put into filling out these pages on numerous FE games. I'd like to do the same thing, but i don't want to do that if i'm gonna get challenged every step of the way. I had asked when the game came out if anyone was going to lead this project (filling out the wiki) and if anyone was going to take charge by assigning us tasks to research so that we don't overlap or waste time with multiple experiments that have the same goal. Now all i can say is that, i won't come here and provide info unless i've tested it RIGOROUSLY and replicated the results. I do in fact use the scientific method and also had numerous pages filled out in contributions to the first Fire Emblem Warriors game so this isn't my first time playing a musou or nintendo brand warriors game. You can be confident in my results cause i wouldn't give them out unless I tested them heavily. People who are likely to stop by and check out serenes's wiki page are likely going to read that data we provide so I will be very clear in how i articulate my words so people can read and comprehend the info we have. So can we work together? Not this nitpicking over word choice or how things are phrased.

Cause both of us would have had to mention and stipulate the few exceptions in combat arts/spells. Saying the durability cost would have or could be misleading because the displayed number could be altered if someone already ate a meal at the camp or has the armsthift ability equipped and then went into their convoy/charater page to view details of the combat art/spell (regardless if they are in camp or are already deployed onto the battlefield). I already thought of this ahead of time (seeing an altered number). If a person who is already the type to come to a wiki such as serenes or a stranger using google gets directed here, after they read the page's details on leveling and see the info, they are going to go back to looking at their game and see their move's details and then proceed to grind so they can max out their stuff. I worded it carefully with that in mind so they can just focus on the grind . I use wiki(s) and guides often so I know what is considered being worded friendly and simple and i make contributions to another site known as fandom on other game franchises so i really put effort into tailoring info for other people's consumption/use. So i ask again, can we work together? 

I'm not trying to get in your way. I suggested listing it for each combat art, that way we don't have to worry about exceptions. Durability isn't ideal for the reasons you listed, but might isn't ideal either due to buffs and white magic spells that don't have a listed might value, so I think just adding level-up costs directly to the table should be fine, yes?

[Tediz64]

39 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

I just tested Jeralt with Atrocity; despite having a durability cost of 44, it levelled up after exactly 15 uses, just like a 20 Durability art, so it seems pretty consistent. That's good to know.

I don't think it's specifically tied to might so much that every combat art and spell in the game is internally sorted into three tiers.

• Basic tier which costs 10 durability, takes 15 uses to level-cap, and has small might when it's an attack.
• Intermediate tier which costs 15 durability, takes 25 uses to level cap, and has medium might when it's an attack.
• Advanced tier which costs 20 durability, takes 35 uses to level cap, and has large might when it's an attack.

Some of the special skills, such as those tied to Heroes' Relics, have increased durability cost, but otherwise behave as expected for their tier in every other regard.

Might increases while durability cost decreases with level-ups, but cooldown time seems to stay the same.

I think we might be better off just listing the level-up costs for each art individually, instead of pinning it on might or durability (both of which have exceptions).

I don't mean to double post but i saw you edited so now I'm slightly atlering my response as well

The game makes not mention of combat arts/spells being broken into tiers. You are choosing to word it as such and break it down like that for your own purposes. Wording it like that on a wiki isn't user friendly (by which i mean, the average person reading that will have to engage more in comprehending what they are looking at when they return back to looking at their game screen) And despite might increasing (they visibily add a little plus symbol for level 2 and another plus symbol at level 3) the word small, medium, and large don't go away.

So now i ask, why do dislike the way i choose to word it? Because of the exceptions of self buffs and 3 spells? Or is this problem deeper than that? Are you unhappy with me making contributions to this game's wiki? Did you want to test this yourself and provide the info first like as if this is some kind of competition to fill out the wiki? Help me understand why you are challenging me please. I want to know because if you don't want to work together, i can stop posting. 

[Anomalocaris]

5 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

I don't mean to double post but i saw you edited so now I'm slightly atlering my response as well

The game makes not mention of combat arts/spells being broken into tiers. You are choosing to word it as such and break it down like that for your own purposes. Wording it like that on a wiki isn't user friendly (by which i mean, the average person reading that will have to engage more in comprehending what they are looking at when they return back to looking at their game screen) And despite might increasing (they visibily add a little plus symbol for level 2 and another plus symbol at level 3) the word small, medium, and large don't go away.

So now i ask, why do dislike the way i choose to word it? Because of the exceptions of self buffs and 3 spells? Or is this problem deeper than that? Are you unhappy with me making contributions to this game's wiki? Did you want to test this yourself and provide the info first like as if this is some kind of competition to fill out the wiki? Help me understand why you are challenging me please. I want to know because if you don't want to work together, i can stop posting. 

Yes, the tier thing is just me breaking it down for my own understanding. Not terms I intended to use on the wiki, since it's not an actual aspect of the game.

And yes, I dislike the might-based description because of the exceptions of self-buffs and certain white magic. It's none of the other, weirdly personal stuff you're suggesting, I'm not that petty.

As I said in my previous two posts, would just listing the values in the charts themselves suffice? Then we bypass all the exceptions, and more importantly new users can look up arts/spells by name instead of having to memorize each of their might values.

[Tediz64]

3 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

Yes, the tier thing is just me breaking it down for my own understanding. Not terms I intended to use on the wiki, since it's not an actual aspect of the game.

And yes, I dislike the might-based description because of the exceptions of self-buffs and certain white magic. It's none of the other, weirdly personal stuff you're suggesting, I'm not that petty.

As I said in my previous two posts, would just listing the values in the charts themselves suffice? Then we bypass all the exceptions, and more importantly new users can look up arts/spells by name instead of having to memorize each of their might values.

Hmm....i'm thinking. So i'm trying to visualize it and think of how the random user would see it. So are you suggesting we make the graphs on each one wider by adding two more columns with the head of each column being listed as example "Usage to reach level 2" and "Usage to reach level 3" and then put the number underneath it? For a laptop/computer it could work, but for mobile phone users they'd have to start sliding their finger on the screen to reach the other end of the graph so they can see the columns. Also what are we going to add more columns for when they have the chapter effect of combat art experience increase gains suggesting other numbers? Or just add a paragraph at the top stating that when that effect is active, the numbers are cut in half? 

[Anomalocaris]

Just now, Tediz64 said:

Hmm....i'm thinking. So i'm trying to visualize it and think of how the random user would see it. So are you suggesting we make the graphs on each one wider by adding two more columns with the head of each column being listed as example "Usage to reach level 2" and "Usage to reach level 3" and then put the number underneath it? For a laptop/computer it could work, but for mobile phone users they'd have to start sliding their finger on the screen to reach the other end of the graph so they can see the columns. Also what are we going to add more columns for when they have the chapter effect of combat art experience increase gains suggesting other numbers? Or just add a paragraph at the top stating that when that effect is active, the numbers are cut in half? 

I was thinking just one column with the two values separated by a slash, actually, like the weapon durability.

Combat art experience gain from a chapter effect probably doesn't need to be listed in the chart itself, a blurb at the top will probably be fine. Assuming it just doubles the amount of experience gained, which I suspect it does.

[Tediz64]

2 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

I was thinking just one column with the two values separated by a slash, actually, like the weapon durability.

Combat art experience gain from a chapter effect probably doesn't need to be listed in the chart itself, a blurb at the top will probably be fine. Assuming it just doubles the amount of experience gained, which I suspect it does.

i don't know how to edit the graph itself so i'll leave that up to you. The head the column could be named "Level usage count" possibly as an example and underneath it the numbers could be like Lv2:5/Lv3:10 as a sample. We can edit the paragraph i added to the two separate pages and state simply that one can take it from level 1 to level 3 in one battlefield provided they have the durability for all the usages. As you suggested, we can also stipulate what the effects are of the chapter exp gain once we confirm them. 

[Anomalocaris]

3 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

i don't know how to edit the graph itself so i'll leave that up to you. The head the column could be named "Level usage count" possibly as an example and underneath it the numbers could be like Lv2:5/Lv3:10 as a sample. We can edit the paragraph i added to the two separate pages and state simply that one can take it from level 1 to level 3 in one battlefield provided they have the durability for all the usages. As you suggested, we can also stipulate what the effects are of the chapter exp gain once we confirm them. 

Yeah, I'll take care of it when I get the chance.

Thank you for researching this, combat art exp was something I've been curious about for a while but didn't have a good opportunity to test.

[Tediz64]

7 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

Yeah, I'll take care of it when I get the chance.

Thank you for researching this, combat art exp was something I've been curious about for a while but didn't have a good opportunity to test.

To you and to all other users scrolling by, i'm also conducting another experiement and have more than half the results so i'll soon be posting so everyone can check it out. I'm researching class exp gains.

Of all the variables i set out to test and know factor in here are some of the things i'm currently taking a stab at but will later provide the results here. Exp gain simply for be present on the battle (with no officer kills) with and without the knowledge gem, exp gain after killing a single officer with and without the K.G. and then subtracting the exp gain for participating, checking to see if there is an upper limit to officer kill exp gains, checking to see if exp gain is different if the enemy officer is lower, equal, or higher level than you, checking exp gains when inside a preferred class, and last but not least, checking if any of these values change when playing on normal/hard mode. This should help others cut back or at the very least caculate grinding in the most efficent way

Edited July 13, 2022 by Tediz64

[Burklight]

Not sure if the chapter tactics is a priority, but I can say for sure that the one that says "slightly increases the sell value of items" is +50%.