Three Hopes General Discussion Thread

[ciphertul]

3 hours ago, Faellin said:

Has anyone found a late game map with consistant giant beast spawns, and is repeatable via record keeper? Since those are the only ways to consistantly farm the rusted weapons that repair into the archanea regalia.

I only remember those giant monster spawns being side battles that aren't repeatable via record keeper

One of the endgame GW missions have one. It's the challenge mission where you can only use male units.

[Karuu30]

After reading the thread and some opinions regarding certain characters. I found some aspects of them very interesting, especially one of them.

Spoiler

I might be wrong, though speaking from my own perspective after playing the routes:

The three lords seem to keep most of their ideals and are determined to achieve their goals, just like they were on Three Houses

However, I’m particularly interested on Claude. It may just be my impression, but W3H Claude seems to be a more untrustworthy, opportunist version of him.

I understand that, given that this is like a kind of alternate timeline where he doesn’t have the experiences he has on Three Houses, his morals and decisions will be influenced by other factors.

Nonetheless, it’s still “shocking”, and makes me realize how most of Claude’s character I was ignoring all the time.

 

[Sire]

Still playing through Azure Gleam on NG+ Hard after finishing Scarlet Blaze. I'm trying not to use Shez since I decided to not reset my levels, only using him when I need to speed-run something. // At this rate, he'll probably master all of his classes, so I'll need to figure out what to do with him for Golden Wildfire... (Female Shez is being regulated to the 4-6th playthroughs that kill F!Byleth on all routes.)
-- But yeah, having early access to everything is great. Being able to unleash the power of the Relic Weapons early is awesome, as well as having early access to more advanced classes. The Tactics Academy upgrades are also a godsend.
-- I thought Felix would be amazing with his personal ability (faster attack speed for a period after dodging), but I find Ferdie's much easier to use and upkeep. I guess Felix can potentially dodge out of attack animations that other characters can't, but having to constantly dodge to keep up the attack speed boost sorta sucks.
-- That said, Sylvain's personal ability is the best thing ever. Why charge a Strong Attack like Caspar to increase range and damage when one can upgrade all attacks range and damage based off of hitcount? He's definitely getting the Merc Whistle in this playthrough.
-- I also enjoy Rodrigue's personal, as it also increases the range and damage of attacks, but this time relying on timed button presses. While I personally prefer the hitcount so I can just spam away, Rodrigue's slower and calculated approach is also nice. I guess I just had issues with Monica's personal due to the moveset of Mages, as I find Archers (as Shamir) and Cavaliers (as Rodrigue) to work well with the rhythm skills. Alternatively, it may just be my experience playing the game.
=== I do wonder if there's a different in attack speed by spamming buttons versus going with the rhythm. Would be interesting if they were actually the same speed regardless of button mashing.

Story-wise, I'm definitely seeing parallels between AG and SB. While I haven't gotten too far into the route, one major event is shared but the outcome differs depending on what faction one plays as*. I imagine Part One to mainly be mirror parallels, while Part Two becomes a lot more personally tailored to that specific route (with a variation depending on how one element is handled).

Farming-wise, I do the "secret easy mission" for gold, although it seems Balthus' personal skill maxes out at 9,999 gold. It is possible to get more by breaking the "money pots," but farming kills does not seem to be worthwhile. It seems better to just speed-run the mission, with Balthus' skill giving extra gold instead of being the primary source.
-- I thought about trying to spam Awakening and keep an Awakening chain going, but I don't think it gives anything in terms of gold. So, Warrior Gauge and Special Attack Spam it is.

As an aside, there's something I found regarding Edelgard and Dimitri. (*I also put what event is shared and their outcomes.)

Spoiler

They have a C-Rank support conversation.

While I haven't seen it for myself yet, I was surprised to see the little "support convo icon" above El's portrait when going through Dimitri's supports. While the two do not go above C, it's interesting to see a conversation one cannot normally see unless one plays in "Free Mode "(Record Keeper) and farms support points that way.

* * * * * * * * * *

*For reference of the shared event in SC and AG, it's Lonato's rebellion.
-- in Scarlet Blaze, the Black Eagles save Lonato.
-- In Azure Gleam, the Blue Lions kill Lonato.
-- In both routes, Byleth and Jeralt's Mercenaries appear on the opposing side.

I imagine the fate of the western land of the Kingdom also varies, with BE's managing to secure a foothold there while the BL route manages to fend off the invasion.
-- This is just speculation, I haven't gotten that far yet in Azure Gleam.

 

[Moonlit Knight]

2 hours ago, Sire said:

As an aside, there's something I found regarding Edelgard and Dimitri. (*I also put what event is shared and their outcomes.)

  Reveal hidden contents

They have a C-Rank support conversation.

While I haven't seen it for myself yet, I was surprised to see the little "support convo icon" above El's portrait when going through Dimitri's supports. While the two do not go above C, it's interesting to see a conversation one cannot normally see unless one plays in "Free Mode "(Record Keeper) and farms support points that way.

* * * * * * * * * *

*For reference of the shared event in SC and AG, it's Lonato's rebellion.
-- in Scarlet Blaze, the Black Eagles save Lonato.
-- In Azure Gleam, the Blue Lions kill Lonato.
-- In both routes, Byleth and Jeralt's Mercenaries appear on the opposing side.

I imagine the fate of the western land of the Kingdom also varies, with BE's managing to secure a foothold there while the BL route manages to fend off the invasion.
-- This is just speculation, I haven't gotten that far yet in Azure Gleam.

 

Spoiler

Unfortunately, it's just a record of the conversations the lords have with each other during Ch. 16.

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Moonlit Knight

[Sire]

1 hour ago, Moonlit Knight said:

  Hide contents

It's just a record of the conversations the lords have with each other during Ch. 16.

 

Spoiler

Oh. That's a bit sad, then.

Although I would imagine the convos being a bit more suited for that story section. Seeing it re-used as supports makes me feel like each "Byleth Bonus" on each route may not have much of a difference after all.

Alternatively, perhaps its a way for those who do the "Kill Byleth" route to see the conversations, who knows.

Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Anomalocaris]

Looking into Combat Art tutelage and noticed something odd.

Shez has the speech bubble indicating valid teachable Combat Art on Windsweep and Mortal Struggle, but Dimitri (who has level 3 in those as well) does not. I can't think of any reason that would be unless CA tutelage is on a character-by-character basis instead of anybody being able to teach anybody else...

[ciphertul]

5 hours ago, Anomalocaris said:

Looking into Combat Art tutelage and noticed something odd.

Shez has the speech bubble indicating valid teachable Combat Art on Windsweep and Mortal Struggle, but Dimitri (who has level 3 in those as well) does not. I can't think of any reason that would be unless CA tutelage is on a character-by-character basis instead of anybody being able to teach anybody else...

They can only teach what they learn in their preferred classes.

[Burklight]

14 hours ago, Sire said:

-- I thought Felix would be amazing with his personal ability (faster attack speed for a period after dodging), but I find Ferdie's much easier to use and upkeep. I guess Felix can potentially dodge out of attack animations that other characters can't, but having to constantly dodge to keep up the attack speed boost sorta sucks.
 

If you can manage to Keep Ferdie's up 100% of the time he comes out ahead probably, but it's far easier to ramp up Felix because it doesn't require enemies on screen to do it. Plus once you get it going it's easy to just dodge cancel the animation of whatever strong attack you use to keep it going. Also Felix is currently the only unit in the game who can get Stalwart Stance, Serene Stance AND Luna, with likely the best crest in the game. A lot of it comes down to preference, but I feel like he's probably the strongest available unit for just braindead steamrolling whatever you want not named Shez.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Burklight

[Fabulously Olivier]

Ferdinand has access to Concentration from Brawler, unlike other characters with ramp-up passives. This makes maintaining it really easy, and he also takes nowhere near as long to ramp up as Sylvain to begin with.

[Use the Falchion]

Kind of finding it hard to gain the motivation to play Golden Wildfire. Part of it is because I'm probably teetering on the edge of burnout; the other part of it is because I think I know where the story is heading and I'm not a big fan of it*, particularly since the demo made sort of led the story going in a different direction. The smaller cast doesn't help, but I'm fine with that for the most part. It just feels weird that I can't recruit characters from other runs using Renown and just have them available during auxiliary battles and to build supports with, considering that's more or less how the Renown Characters function. (Or maybe that is how it functions, and I'm complaining about something I simply haven't gotten far enough in the game to try out.) 

Right now, I think I'll wait to see if a Golden Route or something similar is released as DLC before I jump back into the game for a full playthrough. I may try out the Renown Characters and write some fun supports that weren't in the game, but that's about it for me right now. Besides, I have several books I want to read, Stardew Valley should be arriving by the end of the week, and Xenoblade Chronicles 3 comes out next month. (And if I don't like XC3, I also pre-ordered Digimon Survive, so I'm good there.)

 

*I've heard others compare it to Crimson Flower, and that's my least favorite route of Three Houses to be honest, so I'm not really wanting to play that right now, even if it's Claude leading the charge. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

6 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

Kind of finding it hard to gain the motivation to play Golden Wildfire. Part of it is because I'm probably teetering on the edge of burnout; the other part of it is because I think I know where the story is heading and I'm not a big fan of it*, particularly since the demo made sort of led the story going in a different direction. The smaller cast doesn't help, but I'm fine with that for the most part. It just feels weird that I can't recruit characters from other runs using Renown and just have them available during auxiliary battles and to build supports with, considering that's more or less how the Renown Characters function. (Or maybe that is how it functions, and I'm complaining about something I simply haven't gotten far enough in the game to try out.) 

Right now, I think I'll wait to see if a Golden Route or something similar is released as DLC before I jump back into the game for a full playthrough. I may try out the Renown Characters and write some fun supports that weren't in the game, but that's about it for me right now. Besides, I have several books I want to read, Stardew Valley should be arriving by the end of the week, and Xenoblade Chronicles 3 comes out next month. (And if I don't like XC3, I also pre-ordered Digimon Survive, so I'm good there.)

 

*I've heard others compare it to Crimson Flower, and that's my least favorite route of Three Houses to be honest, so I'm not really wanting to play that right now, even if it's Claude leading the charge. 

Hey, take your time. It's not like we're likely to get another game for years, if this even sold well enough to greenlight it (I think it did).

 

Nor can I especially blame anyone for being unenthused about any one route. Much as I like playing as Dimitri, Felix, and Seteth mechanically, I'm not exactly thrilled to be defending the Church in Blue Lions path. It feels wrong to me upholding the status quo when it has clearly hurt Fodlan for over a millenia. It goes against my personal values. And unlike base Three Houses, it's focusing more on Dimitri's political values than his more interesting mental health issues.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Fabulously Olivier

[Use the Falchion]

19 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Hey, take your time

Thanks!

 

19 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

It's not like we're likely to get another game for years, if this even sold well enough to greenlight it (I think it did).

I'm fine with that personally. I like the game because it's a Fire Emblem game. The Warriors aspect was fun, but I don't need the crossovers too often, personally speaking. But yes, I too think we'll get a sequel, and I do hope it's a - as you put it - Three Hopes-ifying of Genealogy. (They can do another major crossover when they're wliling to tell a major crossover story well.)

 

19 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Nor can I especially blame anyone for being unenthused about any one route. Much as I like playing as Dimitri, Felix, and Seteth mechanically, I'm not exactly thrilled to be defending the Church in Blue Lions path. It feels wrong to me upholding the status quo. It goes against my personal values.

I feel the exact opposite amusingly enough. Taking down the church for reasons that aren't entirely the church's fault based on faulty and incomplete information makes me feel icky, personally. And it's particularly grating since the one route you can't recruit Hilda is the one route you go against the church. So why change it here? (I'm sure that question is answered, but it's one that bugs me for existing.) Still, to each their own, and I don't fault others for feeling the way they do. 

(I disagree with upholding the status quo, though. Dimitri makes it very clear that he's not desirous of upholding the status quo because he likes it, but because the Kingdom has been wracked with famine, diseases, multiple revolutions and upheavals, a succession crisis twice over, and now outright war. n some ways, this is the perfect time to implement changes, like with the commoners in the army and increasing their roles/status in the Kingdom as a whole, as Dimitri is doing. (Sylvain and Dimitri's B-Support really hammers this in.) For other changes, it would simply result in him being assassinated like his father. He's walking a careful line between progress and stability, and him prioritizing one over the other at this time doesn't mean he isn't thinking about the future.)

 

19 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

And unlike base Three Houses, it's focusing more on Dimitri's political values than his more interesting mental health issues.

I actually liked this aspect. Three Houses alluded to a lot of political machinations that were never fully explored because we were focused on the grand war. Here, we get into the weeds of the politics and deal with that. It's a lot more intriguing to me, particularly due to Three Hopes' sequel nature. (I consider it both a spin-off and a sequel, just not a traditional sequel.) The mental health issues were explored in Three Houses and get addressed in Three Hopes, I personally don't need a rehash of that story. Telling a newer story was good for me. But again, to each their own!

Which gets into my feelings about what I know of Golden Wildfire. I had hoped that the story would focus on Almyra and the Agarthans, considering Shez is from the Alliance, and we know the Agarthans have their base in Alliance territory. But instead, we get maybe one act of that before focusing on the war against the Church and the Kingdom, if I heard things right. Still, I'm sure that DLC will offer something worth coming back to the game for, even if it's just new characters. 

 

Anyways, thanks for the kind words!

Edited July 5, 2022 by Use the Falchion

[Fabulously Olivier]

2 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

Thanks!

 

I'm fine with that personally. I like the game because it's a Fire Emblem game. The Warriors aspect was fun, but I don't need the crossovers too often, personally speaking. But yes, I too think we'll get a sequel, and I do hope it's a - as you put it - Three Hopes-ifying of Genealogy. (They can do another major crossover when they're wliling to tell a major crossover story well.)

 

I feel the exact opposite amusingly enough. Taking down the church for reasons that aren't entirely the church's fault based on faulty and incomplete information makes me feel icky, personally. And it's particularly grating since the one route you can't recruit Hilda is the one route you go against the church. So why change it here? (I'm sure that question is answered, but it's one that bugs me for existing.) Still, to each their own, and I don't fault others for feeling the way they do. 

(I disagree with upholding the status quo, though. Dimitri makes it very clear that he's not desirous of upholding the status quo because he likes it, but because the Kingdom has been wracked with famine, diseases, multiple revolutions and upheavals, a succession crisis twice over, and now outright war. n some ways, this is the perfect time to implement changes, like with the commoners in the army and increasing their roles/status in the Kingdom as a whole, as Dimitri is doing. (Sylvain and Dimitri's B-Support really hammers this in.) For other changes, it would simply result in him being assassinated like his father. He's walking a careful line between progress and stability, and him prioritizing one over the other at this time doesn't mean he isn't thinking about the future.)

 

I actually liked this aspect. Three Houses alluded to a lot of political machinations that were never fully explored because we were focused on the grand war. Here, we get into the weeds of the politics and deal with that. It's a lot more intriguing to me, particularly due to Three Hopes' sequel nature. (I consider it both a spin-off and a sequel, just not a traditional sequel.) The mental health issues were explored in Three Houses and get addressed in Three Hopes, I personally don't need a rehash of that story. Telling a newer story was good for me. But again, to each their own!

Which gets into my feelings about what I know of Golden Wildfire. I had hoped that the story would focus on Almyra and the Agarthans, considering Shez is from the Alliance, and we know the Agarthans have their base in Alliance territory. But instead, we get maybe one act of that before focusing on the war against the Church and the Kingdom, if I heard things right. Still, I'm sure that DLC will offer something worth coming back to the game for, even if it's just new characters. 

Wanting to change things more slowly is often a dogwhistle for not changing them at all. Not a coincidence, as the Blue Lions house is the most noble-heavy and the most reliant on the power system as it exists. As far as I'm aware, Dimitri's regime doesn't just not take the large reforms that are needed. It takes few to no significant reforms at all. His one major redeeming quality is that he is clearly an unbigoted person, and is making serious attempts to mend relations between Faerghus and Duscur - something that could have been a uniting factor with Claude.

 

Also, the Church did nothing wrong except by faulty logic? Rhea reallllly likes executions, and we do have evidence of the Church conducting mass censorship and intentionally holding back scientific progress to stay in power. This isn't a discussion thread for politics and theocracy, so I'd rather not turn this into a whole thing, but there are real reasons to dislike them, and those reasons are realistically reflective of real world issues that occur when religion gains too much power.

[Burklight]

Ignoring the political implications of what each house is doing, I was disappointed with Three Hopes Blue Lions as well because...

Spoiler

 

In Three Houses, Dimitri's character arc was the highlight of the entire game for me. Not the mental health aspect per say, but as soon as he came out of his blind rage and actually focused on ending the war is when he was able to kill every enemy he had, including most of TWSITD, without even realizing who they were. In just about every revenge story I'm aware of, the MC either A) successfully carriers out their revenge or B) takes the high road after discovering revenge isn't worth it. Dimitri manages to pick both without realizing it. It was poetic justice for me.

There is no hint of this at all in Three Hopes where it feels like you spend most of the story chasing your own tail looking for TWSITD and letting them get away over and over again. Dimitri came across as an incompetent protagonist instead of the ruthless antihero he is in Three Houses. Some people may prefer that, but it just seems overdone compared to the breath of fresh air he was in Three Houses.

 

 

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 minutes ago, Burklight said:

Ignoring the political implications of what each house is doing, I was disappointed with Three Hopes Blue Lions as well because...

  Hide contents

 

In Three Houses, Dimitri's character arc was the highlight of the entire game for me. Not the mental health aspect per say, but as soon as he came out of his blind rage and actually focused on ending the war is when he was able to kill every enemy he had, including most of TWSITD, without even realizing who they were. In just about every revenge story I'm aware of, the MC either A) successfully carriers out their revenge or B) takes the high road after discovering revenge isn't worth it. Dimitri manages to pick both without realizing it. It was poetic justice for me.

There is no hint of this at all in Three Hopes where it feels like you spend most of the story chasing your own tail looking for TWSITD and letting them get away over and over again. Dimitri came across as an incompetent protagonist instead of the ruthless antihero he is in Three Houses. Some people may prefer that, but it just seems overdone compared to the breath of fresh air he was in Three Houses.

 

 

You know, I agree. He really does feel bland because of it. Some of what makes Dimitri tick is still there, mind you, but it's so toned down that he comes across as... idk, Ike with just a little bit of edge.

[Etrurian emperor]

Out of all the routes Azure Gleam strikes me as the weakest. Now I have not played it yet so my opinion might change, but I do know the general plot points and I have seen pieces of it from my brother.

Spoiler

 

Edelgard being kidnapped and turned into Fallen Edelgard to serve as a puppet is not an inherently bad plotpoint but for it to have an effect it had to be an actual villain who reduced Edelgard to that state. And Thales can never serve that role. I don't think he and the Aghartans were ever meant as threatening antagonists. That's why Dimitri is able to stop Thales by complete accident on Azure Moon, and why Edelgard can casually crush them as an afterthought in Crimson Flower. The idea that Thalas and Duke Aegir of all people can topple Edelgard is just nonsense. 

 Swapping Edelgard as an antagonist in favor of Thales is just an objectively bad trade. Even Edelgard's detractors would admit she's at least a very interesting antagonist and a good foil for Rhea and Dimitri. Thales has none of that. He's just a generically evil Gharnef who's got no other traits or goals than being really evil. Even his status as the architect of Duscur rings kinda hollow because Rufus, Kleiman, Cornelia and Patricia were all far more involved than he was. 

Duscur also might get handled a bit too neatly. At the very start Rufus is already exposed and executed, Cornelia is driven back into the shadows and relations with Duscur are back to normal again. There's Thalas as the master architect to keep the plotpoint going but as established he's really not the right character to serve that role seeing as just about everyone and their grandma were more involved in that affair than he was. 

So in contrast to Golden Wildfire which adds a lot to the Golden Deer, Azure Moon seems to mostly take stuff away. It takes away the antagonist, it takes away the clash of ideals, it takes away Dimitri becoming a crazy hobo(though that might be for the best) and to some extend it even takes away Duscur. 

A solution might have been to swap Thales for Cornelia since unlike Thales she actually has a connection to Dimitri. There's also some implication Cornelia dislikes Thales so her overthrowing him and becoming the main Slitherer would be interesting. And while Cornelia toppling Edelgard would also be unsatisfying she's at least not the joke character that Thales and Duke Aegir are. The best option would have been to introduce Patricia as the chief Slitherer and the Hilda of Fodlan. She's not brought down by the Three Houses baggage the rest of the slitherers suffered from, she's intimately connected to Dimitri and Edelgard, and its already established she's a complete sociopath. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

Kind of finding it hard to gain the motivation to play Golden Wildfire. Part of it is because I'm probably teetering on the edge of burnout; the other part of it is because I think I know where the story is heading and I'm not a big fan of it*, particularly since the demo made sort of led the story going in a different direction. The smaller cast doesn't help, but I'm fine with that for the most part. It just feels weird that I can't recruit characters from other runs using Renown and just have them available during auxiliary battles and to build supports with, considering that's more or less how the Renown Characters function. (Or maybe that is how it functions, and I'm complaining about something I simply haven't gotten far enough in the game to try out.) 

Right now, I think I'll wait to see if a Golden Route or something similar is released as DLC before I jump back into the game for a full playthrough. I may try out the Renown Characters and write some fun supports that weren't in the game, but that's about it for me right now. Besides, I have several books I want to read, Stardew Valley should be arriving by the end of the week, and Xenoblade Chronicles 3 comes out next month. (And if I don't like XC3, I also pre-ordered Digimon Survive, so I'm good there.)

 

*I've heard others compare it to Crimson Flower, and that's my least favorite route of Three Houses to be honest, so I'm not really wanting to play that right now, even if it's Claude leading the charge. 

I think in general the Three Houses mechanic has the unfortunate side effect that burnout starts kicking in before you reach your third house. The routes are fairly lengthy so after completing two routes you probably already exhausted most of what the gameplay has to offer. I recall having put Three Houses down for a bit before starting with my final house, and its likely going to be the same with Three Hopes. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Etrurian emperor

[ZanaLyrander]

I was of two minds about Dimitri in Three Hopes. He doesn't get to quite the same heights as his character in Three Houses, but he also doesn't get to quite the same lows either.

Spoiler

Gonna be honest, while I enjoyed Dimitri's arc in Three Houses, and thought the exploration of his mental health issues and his eventual redemption were excellent, I also hated the first half of part 2 on the Blue Lions playthrough in Three Houses because Dimitri is just an insufferable asshole for way too long. Like, I get it, that's the whole point, but they did their jobs too well, he was just completely unlikable for a large portion of part 2, and every time he opened his fucking mouth I wanted to punch him.

In comparison, Three Hopes Dimitri is less interesting overall, but more consistently likable. Seeing Dimitri as a king forced to make sacrifices and be harsh yet caring at the same time, juggling his anger and his compassion, was interesting, but never reached quite the same heights as the latter half of part 2 in Three Houses. It's a mixed bag overall, you take the rough with the smooth.

 

[Fabulously Olivier]

7 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Out of all the routes Azure Gleam strikes me as the weakest. Now I have not played it yet so my opinion might change, but I do know the general plot points and I have seen pieces of it from my brother.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Edelgard being kidnapped and turned into Fallen Edelgard to serve as a puppet is not an inherently bad plotpoint but for it to have an effect it had to be an actual villain who reduced Edelgard to that state. And Thales can never serve that role. I don't think he and the Aghartans were ever meant as threatening antagonist. That's why Dimitri is able to stop Thales by complete accident on Azure Moon, and why Edelgard can casually crush them as an afterthought in Crimson Flower. The idea that Thalas and Duke Aegir of all people can topple Edelgard is just nonsense. 

 Swapping Edelgard as an antagonist in favor of Thales is just an objectively bad trade. Even Edelgard's detractors would admit she's at least a very interesting antagonist and a good foil for Rhea and Dimitri. Thales has none of that. He's just a generically evil Gharnef who's got no other traits or goals than being really evil. Even his status as the architect of Duscur rings kinda hollow because Rufus, Kleiman, Cornelia and Patricia were all far more involved than he was. 

Duscur also might get handled a bit too neatly. At the very start Rufus is already exposed and executed, Cornelia is driven back into the shadows and relations with Duscur are back to normal again. There's Thalas as the master architect to keep the plotpoint going but as established he's really not the right character to serve that role seeing as just about everyone and their grandma were more involved in that affair than he was. 

So in contrast to Golden Wildfire which adds a lot to the Golden Deer, Azure Moon seems to mostly take stuff away. It takes away the antagonist, it takes away the clash of ideals, it takes away Dimitri becoming a crazy hobo(though that might be for the best) and to some extend it even takes away Duscur. 

A solution might have been to swap Thales for Cornelia since unlike Thales she actually has a connection to Dimitri. There's also some implication Cornelia dislikes Thales so her overthrowing him and becoming the main Slitherer would be interesting. And while Cornelia toppling Edelgard would also be unsatisfying she's at least not the joke character that Thales and Duke Aegir are. The best option would have been to introduce Patricia as the chief Slitherer and the Hilda of Fodlan. She's not brought down by the Three Houses baggage the rest of the slitherers suffered from, she's intimately connected to Dimitri and Edelgard, and its already established she's a complete sociopath. 

 

 

I think in general the Three Houses mechanic has the unfortunate side effect that burnout starts kicking in before you reach your third house. The routes are fairly lengthy so after completing two routes you probably already exhausted most of what the gameplay has to offer. I recall having put Three Houses down for a bit before starting with my final house, and its likely going to be the same with Three Hopes. 

I kind of agree? I think it's less severe here, but I had some burnout with Three Houses proper in my 2nd playthrough, and severe burnout with the 3rd. I largely chalked this up to how the calendar system created a use-them-or-lose-them dynamic with the side battles. And of course being unable to skip White Clouds. Less of an issue here because the side content is more fun, IMO, and it can be skipped entirely with whistles in NG+. But it could certainly use optional features like randomizers to help with reducing the risk of burnout. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Fabulously Olivier

[Use the Falchion]

1 hour ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Wanting to change things more slowly is often a dogwhistle for not changing them at all. Not a coincidence, as the Blue Lions house is the most noble-heavy and the most reliant on the power system as it exists. As far as I'm aware, Dimitri's regime doesn't just not take the large reforms that are needed. It takes few to no significant reforms at all. His one major redeeming quality is that he is clearly an unbigoted person, and is making serious attempts to mend relations between Faerghus and Duscur - something that could have been a uniting factor with Claude.

Except we see that Dimitri is changing things. He puts commoners in charge of military positions that have been historically held by nobles in an increasing amount. (Shez and another slightly spoiler character are the prime examples, but not the only examples.) He's opening up the nobility to commoners as a stopgap to figure out what to do with the entire noble system as it stands, because he knows that it won't last forever nor is it the best way going forward. (See his supports with Sylvain.) 

Dimitri has taken great pains to fix things with Duscur, which is a MAJOR shift, one of the many reforms his father was going to make - one of the many reform ideas that got his father killed. 

The Kingdom relies on its power system because it faces existential threats far more often than the Empire does, which means it has a reason for the system to be in place. Three Houses and Three Hopes both show that Dimitri would love for this not to be the case, and in both games (well, Sylvain's epilogue for the former and a paralogue for the latter) show that steps, small as they are, have been taken for that to be the case. 

The point is that Dimitri physically isn't in a position to make the changes at the speed he'd want to, because he'd be assassinated and then no change would be made. He openly admires Edelgard's changes, and then comments "yeah that'd be nice if we could do that, but it would literally lead to revolt and civil war." The reason is blatantly stated, so I don't see why he's criticized for doing something in a way that doesn't result in open warfare with his own people when he's still cleaning up the mess from the last time he had open warfare with his own people, with an invading force right at his doorstep. Dimitri makes the changes he can at the time he can, and then builds the foundation for other, more progressive changes to be built in time. That's not ideal or fair for everyone, but quick changes can result in violent and massive pushback. 

 

1 hour ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Also, the Church did nothing wrong except by faulty logic? Rhea reallllly likes executions, and we do have evidence of the Church conducting mass censorship and intentionally holding back scientific progress to stay in power.

Not in the least. I'm saying that their reasons for staying in power weren't as terrible as others make it out to be, that they do an extreme amount of good as well, and that the systems that Edelgard and Claude have with the current society in Fodlan - particularly related to Crests - has little to do with the Church of Seiros as it stands today. Just like we know that the Church barred technology for both legitimate (oil for weapons of mass destruction, which historically destroyed Fodlan in the past) and illegitimate (censoring the printing press. I'm willing to let the censoring autopsies slide just a little, since they have magic, so medicine doesn't require the same amount of...necessity in this regard), we also see the Church do great good. (Taking in orphans, widows, and refugees, providing supplies to victims of the war, etc.) So saying "I'm going to take the Church and its leaders down" doesn't seem in the right to me when they're doing a LOT more good overall than harm. Outside of two wars about two hundred years ago and an outside invasion a few decades ago, the Church has kept the peace. The Empire hasn't tried to reclaim any land, the Almyrans haven't successfully invaded, and the Kingdom holds Sreng off. Outside of minor squabbles and cultural politics about Crests that are outside of the Church's control, they've done good. Not perfect, but good. And I personally don't feel like a violent revolution would be needed to change Fodlan as a whole. The Separation of Church and State was coming to Fodlan regardless, if not through bad blood like in the Empire, then through business and intermingling like in the Alliance. 

Now, does that mean the Church should be excused for their super shady stuff? Absolutely not! But I think there's a better way to do that than "let's wage a war." 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Use the Falchion

[Burklight]

20 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

Not in the least. I'm saying that their reasons for staying in power weren't as terrible as others make it out to be, that they do an extreme amount of good as well, and that the systems that Edelgard and Claude have with the current society in Fodlan - particularly related to Crests - has little to do with the Church of Seiros as it stands today. Just like we know that the Church barred technology for both legitimate (oil for weapons of mass destruction, which historically destroyed Fodlan in the past) and illegitimate (censoring the printing press. I'm willing to let the censoring autopsies slide just a little, since they have magic, so medicine doesn't require the same amount of...necessity in this regard), we also see the Church do great good. (Taking in orphans, widows, and refugees, providing supplies to victims of the war, etc.) So saying "I'm going to take the Church and its leaders down" doesn't seem in the right to me when they're doing a LOT more good overall than harm. Outside of two wars about two hundred years ago and an outside invasion a few decades ago, the Church has kept the peace. The Empire hasn't tried to reclaim any land, the Almyrans haven't successfully invaded, and the Kingdom holds Sreng off. Outside of minor squabbles and cultural politics about Crests that are outside of the Church's control, they've done good. Not perfect, but good. And I personally don't feel like a violent revolution would be needed to change Fodlan as a whole. The Separation of Church and State was coming to Fodlan regardless, if not through bad blood like in the Empire, then through business and intermingling like in the Alliance. 

Now, does that mean the Church should be excused for their super shady stuff? Absolutely not! But I think there's a better way to do that than "let's wage a war." 

I think the easiest way to sum up what Rhea is would be "relatively benevolent theocratic dictator." If you had to live under the just about any theocratic dictatorship throughout human history or the Church of Serios, you'd probably pick the Church of Serios. That doesn't make it NOT a theocratic dictatorship. It's just the best case scenario of what that could look like.

[ZanaLyrander]

4 minutes ago, Burklight said:

I think the easiest way to sum up what Rhea is would be "relatively benevolent theocratic dictator." If you had to live under the just about any theocratic dictatorship throughout human history or the Church of Serios, you'd probably pick the Church of Serios. That doesn't make it NOT a theocratic dictatorship. It's just the best case scenario of what that could look like.

Agreed. And the best case scenario is still a total lack of social mobility, religiously enforced xenophobia, massive inequality, and tremendously falsified history. It's as good as theocracies get, and it's still pretty bad.

Edited July 5, 2022 by ZanaLyrander

[Fabulously Olivier]

2 minutes ago, Burklight said:

I think the easiest way to sum up what Rhea is would be "relatively benevolent theocratic dictator." If you had to live under the just about any theocratic dictatorship throughout human history or the Church of Serios, you'd probably pick the Church of Serios. That doesn't make it NOT a theocratic dictatorship. It's just the best case scenario of what that could look like.

That's... an agreeable take. Nuanced and accurate enough. Perhaps still a little generous to Rhea, but not the wholly apologetic stance that a disturbing number of fans take towards her.

[Burklight]

2 minutes ago, ZanaLyrander said:

Agreed. And the best case scenario is still a total lack of social mobility, religiously reinforced xenophobia, massive inequality, and tremendously falsified history. It's as good as theocracies get, and it's still pretty bad.

In case it wasn't clear (it probably was), I assumed that list of bad things was implied in "theocratic dictatorship."

[ZanaLyrander]

32 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

 Now, does that mean the Church should be excused for their super shady stuff? Absolutely not! But I think there's a better way to do that than "let's wage a war." 

This statement bothers me, because on the one hand, I agree with it, and think starting a war is a bit drastic, but on the other hand... what 'better way' is there? Rhea basically controls all of Fodlan. I honestly can not envision a non-violent way to remove her from power and hold her accountable for her crimes. And any attempt to do so basically forces you into direct conflict with the Kingdom. Rhea has taken great pains to create a stable, unchanging system by which there is no real method of replacing her, her system is self-perpetuating, her edicts written in stone and unquestionable, because they're taken as the word of the goddess.

It's something that bugs me about the story of Three Houses and Three Hopes. Both Claude and Dimitri agree with Edelgard's goals, but not her methods. Yet in terms of dealing with the central church and the shady shit they do, neither of them seem to have an alternative method. It's really easy to point fingers and say 'you're doing this wrong', much harder to say 'here's what you should be doing instead'.

Spoiler

Even Claude basically does the same thing as Edelgard in Three Hopes, but people don't give him as much shit, because he's just taking advantage of a war someone else started rather than being the instigator.

 

[Fabulously Olivier]

10 minutes ago, ZanaLyrander said:

This statement bothers me, because on the one hand, I agree with it, and think starting a war is a bit drastic, but on the other hand... what 'better way' is there? Rhea basically controls all of Fodlan. I honestly can not envision a non-violent way to remove her from power and hold her accountable for her crimes. And any attempt to do so basically forces you into direct conflict with the Kingdom. Rhea has taken great pains to create a stable, unchanging system by which there is no real method of replacing her, her system is self-perpetuating, her edicts written in stone and unquestionable, because they're taken as the word of the goddess.

It's something that bugs me about the story of Three Houses and Three Hopes. Both Claude and Dimitri agree with Edelgard's goals, but not her methods. Yet in terms of dealing with the central church and the shady shit they do, neither of them seem to have an alternative method. It's really easy to point fingers and say 'you're doing this wrong', much harder to say 'here's what you should be doing instead'.

  Reveal hidden contents

Even Claude basically does the same thing as Edelgard in Three Hopes, but people don't give him as much shit, because he's just taking advantage of a war someone else started rather than being the instigator.

 

I agree completely. And if the theocracy was "on its way out" in any realistic timeframe, then why has it lasted for over a millenium? And having an immortal religious/political leader all but ensures the Church can and would seize control in the event that it sees its power waning. It has likely happened in such cycles already at several points in its history.

 

From my viewpoint, war wasn't just reasonable - it was necessary and inevitable. One can argue against Edelgard's means, but she's fighting an uphill battle after weighing the consequences of action with those of inaction.