Jump to content
JungleGoutte01

About Jugdral's rulers

Recommended Posts

Both seemed to be generally well liked by their people, so probably the latter, at least at first. Arvis` reign got sullied by the child hunts later on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/27/2022 at 3:25 AM, JungleGoutte01 said:

Do you think that Arvis and Travant ruled with fear or respect ?

Travant literally kidnapped Hannibal's adoptive son, placing him under threat of execution, in order to ensure the stubborn old general keep his sword pointed at Seliph's forces. Far as I'm concerned, he's a tyrannical scumbag, and I don't get the "fandom rehabilitation" he seems to receive. But that's worthy of its own thread...

As for Arvis, between "fear" and "respect", I'd say... neither? He achieves his position through "savvy" or "cunning", and seems to treat most other people as pawns. But he doesn't visibly try to terrorize anyone else. That falls to Manfroy and Julius, whose child hunts inspire fear in the populace. In his old age, though, perhaps Arvis can be said to respect the likes of Ishtar and Pallmark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, JungleGoutte01 said:

And I fought Travant was a bit like Boba Fett from Star Wars 

Unfortunately, Travant did not originate with the little-known Fire Emblem Holiday Special, released only in Japan on December 25th, 1995, via the Satteleview add-on to the Super Famicom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/29/2022 at 4:34 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Travant literally kidnapped Hannibal's adoptive son, placing him under threat of execution, in order to ensure the stubborn old general keep his sword pointed at Seliph's forces. Far as I'm concerned, he's a tyrannical scumbag, and I don't get the "fandom rehabilitation" he seems to receive. But that's worthy of its own thread...

This is Travant in Generation 2, where all of his schemes have come up short and his sins and failures are haunting him. I think Travant must have been pretty well respected in Generation 1 because his hatred of Leonster is probably shared by most of the people of Thracia. But he went too far, and lost the people's respect -- meaning he is probably pretty hated by the time Seliph shows up. Hannibal himself summarizes nicely:

Quote

Hannibal: Indeed... And a pitiful man, at that. All he has accomplished is shattering any trust his subjects once held in him. The people's hearts can only endure so much abuse before they break...

Lewyn even says the soldiers are still loyal to Travant because they genuinely think he can elevate Thracia through violence, even though Hannibal and the general populace have soured on this strategy. I mean, Travant literally crushed Leonster and still didn't manage to liberate Thracia -- of course the people have lost trust in him. But he only rules through fear at the end of his rope, and was probably respected by his people at first, which is why he's such an interesting character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/30/2022 at 9:13 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Unfortunately, Travant did not originate with the little-known Fire Emblem Holiday Special, released only in Japan on December 25th, 1995, via the Satteleview add-on to the Super Famicom.

Featuring Bea Arthur.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/30/2022 at 7:34 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Travant literally kidnapped Hannibal's adoptive son, placing him under threat of execution, in order to ensure the stubborn old general keep his sword pointed at Seliph's forces. Far as I'm concerned, he's a tyrannical scumbag, and I don't get the "fandom rehabilitation" he seems to receive. But that's worthy of its own thread...

As for Arvis, between "fear" and "respect", I'd say... neither? He achieves his position through "savvy" or "cunning", and seems to treat most other people as pawns. But he doesn't visibly try to terrorize anyone else. That falls to Manfroy and Julius, whose child hunts inspire fear in the populace. In his old age, though, perhaps Arvis can be said to respect the likes of Ishtar and Pallmark.

The ironic thing about that is that Hannibal probably would have been the last man standing, fighting for Travant if he hadn't basically betrayed him like that. He didn't like the way things were going, but he'd shown no real signs of betrayal.

16 hours ago, hi_scroes said:

This is Travant in Generation 2, where all of his schemes have come up short and his sins and failures are haunting him. I think Travant must have been pretty well respected in Generation 1 because his hatred of Leonster is probably shared by most of the people of Thracia. But he went too far, and lost the people's respect -- meaning he is probably pretty hated by the time Seliph shows up. Hannibal himself summarizes nicely:

Lewyn even says the soldiers are still loyal to Travant because they genuinely think he can elevate Thracia through violence, even though Hannibal and the general populace have soured on this strategy. I mean, Travant literally crushed Leonster and still didn't manage to liberate Thracia -- of course the people have lost trust in him. But he only rules through fear at the end of his rope, and was probably respected by his people at first, which is why he's such an interesting character.

In regards to Travant being at the end of his rope, let's not forget that he basically commits suicide pretty early into Chapter 9. He sets up all his defense against the liberation army and then as soon as they gain the slightest ground and his daughter rebels against him (and seemingly dies), he's basically decides to throw in the towel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jotari said:

In regards to Travant being at the end of his rope, let's not forget that he basically commits suicide pretty early into Chapter 9. He sets up all his defense against the liberation army and then as soon as they gain the slightest ground and his daughter rebels against him (and seemingly dies), he's basically decides to throw in the towel.

Broke: Negotiating a peace agreement with the incoming Liberation Army against your mutually-despised greater enemy, that will allow you to reinforce your control of Southern Thracia while Seliph and his cadre march on their merry way.

Woke: Saying "ah, fuck it" and insisting on this needless war regardless, leading yourself to die, your kidnapped daughter to abandon you, and your son to be reduced to a puppet of your biggest geopolitical foe.

Travant is too temperamental and prideful, at least in his last hours as King. He's not doing what's in the best interest of himself, his family, or his Kingdom.

20 hours ago, hi_scroes said:

This is Travant in Generation 2, where all of his schemes have come up short and his sins and failures are haunting him. I think Travant must have been pretty well respected in Generation 1 because his hatred of Leonster is probably shared by most of the people of Thracia. But he went too far, and lost the people's respect -- meaning he is probably pretty hated by the time Seliph shows up. Hannibal himself summarizes nicely:

That makes sense, although we never see Travant in his function as "King" (or "Prince"? IDK) in Gen I, only as a military leader. In that role, he's admittedly quite cunning, felling his hated rivals and gaining the power of the Gae Bolg in one fell swoop. Then again, his refusal to fight in chapter 3 - while perhaps in his short-term interests - may have doomed his budding ally, Chagall, as well as his own troops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Broke: Negotiating a peace agreement with the incoming Liberation Army against your mutually-despised greater enemy, that will allow you to reinforce your control of Southern Thracia while Seliph and his cadre march on their merry way.

Woke: Saying "ah, fuck it" and insisting on this needless war regardless, leading yourself to die, your kidnapped daughter to abandon you, and your son to be reduced to a puppet of your biggest geopolitical foe.

Travant is too temperamental and prideful, at least in his last hours as King. He's not doing what's in the best interest of himself, his family, or his Kingdom.

Well killing himself might genuinely have worked as way of brokering the peace agreement...if Areone didn't proceed to just throw all sensible motivation completely off the metaphorical cliff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Travant is too temperamental and prideful, at least in his last hours as King. He's not doing what's in the best interest of himself, his family, or his Kingdom.

Right, but he's on nobodies side, not even his own. That makes it more equitable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2022 at 4:16 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

Right, but he's on nobodies side, not even his own. That makes it more equitable.

Truly, he is the embodiment of the series mantra: "Build an army. Trust nobody. Fire Emblem."

On 7/17/2022 at 10:33 AM, Jotari said:

Well killing himself might genuinely have worked as way of brokering the peace agreement...if Areone didn't proceed to just throw all sensible motivation completely off the metaphorical cliff.

I... don't exactly see how. Would the people of Thracia, including the royal family, be more likely to broker peace with the invading army who just killed their king? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Truly, he is the embodiment of the series mantra: "Build an army. Trust nobody. Fire Emblem."

I... don't exactly see how. Would the people of Thracia, including the royal family, be more likely to broker peace with the invading army who just killed their king? 

Yes. If they never wanted the battle in the first place and just blamed all the hostilities on said king.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Jotari said:

Yes. If they never wanted the battle in the first place and just blamed all the hostilities on said king.

Then Travant could just sue for peace himself. The only way he wouldn't be able to achieve peace for Thracia is if A) Seliph refuses his negotiations, which seems unlikely; or else B) there are other warmongering actors in Thracia. If (B) is the case, then such actors don't cease existing - instead, now they have the best propaganda imaginable to continue fighting. Travant's death signals that Seliph's invasion is an existential threat to Thracia's existence, and that failure to push him back will see the entire nation slaughtered. This is all lies, of course, but it's a convincing enough argument to see the struggle brought to an ever more dreadful conclusion.

Conversely, suppose Travant achieves peace with Seliph and his Liberation Army. There may be some grumbling from the generals, and he's now on the wrong side of the Empire and Loptyr Church, but I don't see anyone making a move against Travant or the throne. If the people don't want this war, then Travant achieving peace is a win for all parties involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Then Travant could just sue for peace himself. The only way he wouldn't be able to achieve peace for Thracia is if A) Seliph refuses his negotiations, which seems unlikely; or else B) there are other warmongering actors in Thracia. If (B) is the case, then such actors don't cease existing - instead, now they have the best propaganda imaginable to continue fighting. Travant's death signals that Seliph's invasion is an existential threat to Thracia's existence, and that failure to push him back will see the entire nation slaughtered. This is all lies, of course, but it's a convincing enough argument to see the struggle brought to an ever more dreadful conclusion.

Conversely, suppose Travant achieves peace with Seliph and his Liberation Army. There may be some grumbling from the generals, and he's now on the wrong side of the Empire and Loptyr Church, but I don't see anyone making a move against Travant or the throne. If the people don't want this war, then Travant achieving peace is a win for all parties involved.

Well yeah Travant could sue for peace himself, only he's too proud to do that and too afraid of looking weak. One way or another killing himself and removing himself from the equation so Areone can come to a peaceful arrangement is clearly the logic he's working under when he goes to fight the enemy head on without his holy weapon. And then Areone just kind of if ores or misinterprets it all and fights he'll and leather for the Empire even after losing his home land. Until Athena just tells him not to and then he doesn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Until Athena just tells him not to and then he doesn't.

Vut? Vut is vun voman doing about all of this?

Perhaps that was Travant's intention. But either he did a very poor job of conveying it, or else (as you contend) Areone did a poor job of sussing it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...