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Anomalocaris

Secret Combo Strings!

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I come to you all today with an interesting discovery I haven't seen anybody mention yet. Two or even three discoveries, actually. It's a real rabbithole.

As many of you noticed, the combos a class can perform increase as you promote to higher tiers; for example, Fighter only has three Combo Finishers, but when it promotes to Brigand it unlocks a fourth Combo Finisher, and then a fifth when it promotes to Warrior.

Normally that's the end of the Fighter moveset; it doesn't have a direct promotion into Master Tier, it has to instead go diagonally over to Wyvern Lord, which uses a different moveset. However, Wyvern Lord, as you may know, uses the Fighter moveset when dismounted, and sure enough it turns out the dismounted moveset has a sixth Combo Finisher unlocked, wholly new to dismounted Wyvern Lord. The same applies for all the other dismounted movesets; dismounted Great Knight uses the Armor Knight moveset with a new Combo Finisher, dismounted Bow Knight uses the Archer moveset with a new Combo Finisher, and of course poor Soldier class gets redeemed by having fourth, fifth, and sixth Combo Finishers when you dismount as a Falcon Knight, Dark Knight, or Holy Knight.

However, that's not all. In researching this, I made a second discovery; once you unlock those fourth, fifth, and sixth Combo Finishers by promoting to a new class, they also get retroactively unlocked for the weaker versions. My Dedue has reached Great Knight, but if I demote him all the way back down to Armor Knight, he still keeps the full attack string.

And this is the real kicker; it doesn't even have to be the same moveset, just the same weapon type; if I demote Dedue even further back to basic-ass Fighter, he now has all six Combo Finishers unlocked from the Brigand/Warrior/Dismounted Wyvern Lord moveset even though he's never even touched those classes. This suggests that moveset expansion is tied to weapon rank rather than promotion.

And now here's the real kicker to the real kicker; even "dead end" classes that have no Master Tier representative whatsoever (not even a dismounted moveset) like the Myrmidon/Mercenary moveset, the Monk/Priest/Bishop moveset, and the Mage/Warlock moveset get new combo strings as long as you've reached Master Tier with that weapon type. So there are secret moves that you can use as a Mercenary that some people might not even realize exists. Probably doesn't justify using them due to the weaker stats and class skills, but still interesting.

Edited by Anomalocaris

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That's because combos and attack speed are both tied to weapon rank.

 

It also means that there is no excuse for them to not add upgraded Mercenary and Bishop. The movesets already exist...

Edited by Fabulously Olivier

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19 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

That's because combos and attack speed are both tied to weapon rank.

 

It also means that there is no excuse for them to not add upgraded Mercenary and Bishop. The movesets already exist...

Right, I figured weapon rank was the cause.

Still, I wasn't expecting them to actually go and add extra attacks to movesets that become obsolete past Intermediate or Advanced Tier.

And it's not just Mercenary and Bishop, there's no Master Tier version of Warlock either; Gremory is totally unique, as is Dark Mage/Dark Bishop obviously. They gave us four different mage infantry movesets but no mage cavalry, and only two of them are in Master Tier.

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This is indeed an amazing discovery!

But yeah, the sad truth is that there's no real reason to go back to the lower tiers due to Class Skills, improved Adjutant Effects and potentially higher Growth Rates for the more advanced classes.
-- That being said, the only one that really gets screwed is the Mercenary due to the lack of Swordfaire. Paladin and Warlock could potentially work if one doesn't mind being slightly weaker, while Bishops at least have some good class skills that is unique to them.

I guess this ties in with my Unique Special Attack discovery in the main thread, as Ferdinand and Jeralt only seem to have theirs as Cavalier/Paladin. (Holy Knight and Jeritza's Death Knight have unique movesets. I have not tried Dark Knight yet.)
-- Personally, I still think there should've been Master-Class equivalents for these movesets, and characters should always be able to use their unique special attack if they are in their preferred class.
-- Guess I'll just hope for Updates/DLC that remedy this (as well as removing gender-locked classes).

Edited by Sire

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That's actually really interesting... Does it ever state in the game that combos are tied to weapon levels because I don't believe I ever saw that lol.

Nice to know I can keep Linhardt/Mercedes/Marianne as Bishops now so they don't overlap with their other houses mages. Also nice knowing units that promote into mounted units who can't retain their camp outfits can stay as advanced classes without missing out. I hate the Great Knight costume of Dedue but I thought keeping him as a Fortress Knight would make him worse, guess not though.

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9 minutes ago, Azz said:

That's actually really interesting... Does it ever state in the game that combos are tied to weapon levels because I don't believe I ever saw that lol.

Nice to know I can keep Linhardt/Mercedes/Marianne as Bishops now so they don't overlap with their other houses mages. Also nice knowing units that promote into mounted units who can't retain their camp outfits can stay as advanced classes without missing out. I hate the Great Knight costume of Dedue but I thought keeping him as a Fortress Knight would make him worse, guess not though.

I mean technically it is worse since you're missing out on 5% buster, and probably some growths, as well as mounted advantage. Sure is disappointing that they couldn't even be bothered to give the game's only native great knight his outfit.

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Regarding the Great Knight outfit, does changing outfits from Standard-Issue to Unique not work for Great Knight?

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8 minutes ago, Sire said:

Regarding the Great Knight outfit, does changing outfits from Standard-Issue to Unique not work for Great Knight?

The only units who have their unique outfits on master class mounts are units who are cavaliers/pegasus knights/wyvern riders. The likes of Ferdie, Ingrid or Seteth can change to their unique outfits in their master classes, but units like Dedue as a Great Knight or Hilda as a Wyvern Lord cannot (even though they can as enemy units for some reason).

 

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12 minutes ago, Azz said:

The only units who have their unique outfits on master class mounts are units who are cavaliers/pegasus knights/wyvern riders. The likes of Ferdie, Ingrid or Seteth can change to their unique outfits in their master classes, but units like Dedue as a Great Knight or Hilda as a Wyvern Lord cannot (even though they can as enemy units for some reason).

Learning about Hilda's circumstances is interesting, as I did see her outfit as an enemy. Shame it can't be used as a player.
-- I wonder if Petra somehow keeps her outfit as a Wyvern Rider/Lord, as she did in Three Houses.

As for Dedue, I was hoping it would work as it is in his preferred line, but I guess not.

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