What returning class that wasn't featured in Three Houses do you like to see appearing in the next brand new Fire Emblem Nintendo Switch (or next gen console) mainline title?

[Fabulously Olivier]

I just want Halberdiers to become a staple class of every FE going forward. Please?

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Paladin also has the highest Strength modifier of any Lancefaire class (yes, Great Knight actually loses Strength relative to Paladin). Ergo, it's an ideal class for your Swift Strikers, or for anyone with a Brave Lance. Sure, it's not as good as Wyvern Lord overall, but Wyvern Lord is probably the single-best widely-accessible class in the game.

Is their a non widely accessible class better than wyvern Lord? It seems even better than the Lord exclusive classes to me, particularly Emperor. I guess dancer is pretty good, only I usually if ire that class and just use it's sword avoid +10 stacked onto some other class more mobile (commonly wyvern Lord! Even though they don't have a faire for swords).

[Dark Holy Elf]

I've playing Fates again recently so apologies if most of the answers come from there.

Ninja was the first thing coming to mind. It occupies a very fun niche; squishy (though potentially dodgy under the right circumstances) mage-slaying 1-2 physical specialist, with low base damage to make them hard to one-round more durable units with (though not impossible), but debuffing to make sure they can always contribute.

I second @Zapp Branniglenn's comments on Apothecary. There's a neat space there.

I'd like to see Malig Knight (or removing the gender lock on Dark Flier, which is similar) as well as Kinshi Knight. Let fliers specialize in ranged weapons please.

Infantry spear classes are a popular mention and I guess I'd like to see them too but they don't really excite me.

The main class I don't want to see return is Priest/Cleric/Troubadour in their pre-3H forms (specifically the unpromoted versions). Please let's never go back to the dark ages of having a unit who can heal and do nothing else. Three Houses (and to a lesser extent Echoes) ensuring its healers had offensive options from the start of the game was such a breath of fresh air.

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

Is their a non widely accessible class better than wyvern Lord? It seems even better than the Lord exclusive classes to me, particularly Emperor. I guess dancer is pretty good, only I usually if ire that class and just use it's sword avoid +10 stacked onto some other class more mobile (commonly wyvern Lord! Even though they don't have a faire for swords).

Dancer and Barbarossa would be the main candidates. Of course, the latter is basically just Wyvern Lord with a different weapon.

[Metal Flash]

Since I`ve mentioned Griffon Rider and Baron so many times, I will nomnate Bard this time. I like the idea of different instruments having different effects, like the rings in FE7. Another would be Arcsage as the ultimate mage class, possibly the personal class of a female Gotoh character. 

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I've playing Fates again recently so apologies if most of the answers come from there.

Ninja was the first thing coming to mind. It occupies a very fun niche; squishy (though potentially dodgy under the right circumstances) mage-slaying 1-2 physical specialist, with low base damage to make them hard to one-round more durable units with (though not impossible), but debuffing to make sure they can always contribute.

I second @Zapp Branniglenn's comments on Apothecary. There's a neat space there.

I'd like to see Malig Knight (or removing the gender lock on Dark Flier, which is similar) as well as Kinshi Knight. Let fliers specialize in ranged weapons please.

Infantry spear classes are a popular mention and I guess I'd like to see them too but they don't really excite me.

The main class I don't want to see return is Priest/Cleric/Troubadour in their pre-3H forms (specifically the unpromoted versions). Please let's never go back to the dark ages of having a unit who can heal and do nothing else. Three Houses (and to a lesser extent Echoes) ensuring its healers had offensive options from the start of the game was such a breath of fresh air.

Dancer and Barbarossa would be the main candidates. Of course, the latter is basically just Wyvern Lord with a different weapon.

I actually kind of like Bow knight better for Claude as Barbossa doesn't up his range. And it's not like Claude really has that much trouble killing things. Barbossa's flying utility is definitely appreciated in the final map though.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Yeah, Bow Knight Claude is great too, no argument there. It, Wyvern Lord, and Barbarossa are all excellent choices for Claude, depending on what you want to emphasize with him.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

13 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Dancer and Barbarossa would be the main candidates. Of course, the latter is basically just Wyvern Lord with a different weapon.

Yeah, I was thinking Barbarossa. Working from the notion that Bows > Axes (and, therefore, Bowfaire > Axefaire) in 3H. Although, Avoid +10 may be better than the Charm skill.

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

I actually kind of like Bow knight better for Claude as Barbossa doesn't up his range. And it's not like Claude really has that much trouble killing things. Barbossa's flying utility is definitely appreciated in the final map though.

Bow Knight Claude does have better attacking range, and can use grounded battalions. Then again, Barbarossa getting to fly means it may be able to reach foes that Bow Knight cannot.

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Yeah, Bow Knight Claude is great too, no argument there. It, Wyvern Lord, and Barbarossa are all excellent choices for Claude, depending on what you want to emphasize with him.

I've enjoyed Assassin Claude, too, at least as his lowest-effort pre-skip class. It synergizes well with his natively high Dex and Speed, and offers relatively good movement for infantry. Of course, it's not as good as any you mentioned post-skip, especially if you want him to focus on his Bows.

13 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

The main class I don't want to see return is Priest/Cleric/Troubadour in their pre-3H forms (specifically the unpromoted versions). Please let's never go back to the dark ages of having a unit who can heal and do nothing else. Three Houses (and to a lesser extent Echoes) ensuring its healers had offensive options from the start of the game was such a breath of fresh air.

No, drag me back into dark ages! Dedicated rallybots, Merlinus-style Convoys, maybe even another Smitebot. Give us more weird units in general, whose utility falls outside the obvious realm of combat prowess.

8 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

Since I`ve mentioned Griffon Rider and Baron so many times, I will nomnate Bard this time. I like the idea of different instruments having different effects, like the rings in FE7. Another would be Arcsage as the ultimate mage class, possibly the personal class of a female Gotoh character. 

Sounds kinda like Sanaki's Empress class, which could use all offensive magic (outside of Dark). I do like the idea of a Lady Gotoh, though, since... unless I'm mistaken, Nagi is the only one we've really gotten.

How about a Bard who plays different instruments to have different effects? To simplify animations, they could all be woodwinds. Say, an Oboe that raises Defense, or a Clarinet that improves Speed.

[Acacia Sgt]

Though never crossed my mind, but yes, I support bringing back the support classes. There is just something lost if every single person in your army can fight back, whether they are good at it or not. Having pure support/utility classes gives an extra layer of planning tactics since you have to mind their positioning and stuff so they're out of enemy range while still able to use their support.

[lenticular]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

How about a Bard who plays different instruments to have different effects? To simplify animations, they could all be woodwinds. Say, an Oboe that raises Defense, or a Clarinet that improves Speed.

To really simplify animations, they could have the class sing instead of play instruments, and have different songs have different effects. Maybe learning new songs as they level up. Could have one to refresh, one to heal, maybe one to raise biorhythm or to fill a transform gauge? Nah, bad idea. Biorhythms and transform gauges were awful and shouldn't come back.

On the subject of pure support classes, I'm somewhat ambivalent. My one big hope is that if they do exist, then they have a decent levelling curve that roughly keeps pace with combat units. I don't want support units that race off multiple levels ahead of everyone else, and I definitely don't want support units where you have to make sure that you are healing every single turn, even if it's only for 1hp, just to manage to stay five levels below everyone else.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Bow Knight Claude does have better attacking range, and can use grounded battalions. Then again, Barbarossa getting to fly means it may be able to reach foes that Bow Knight cannot.

Depending on the map, as I said, you definitely want him flying for the final map. But in most cases you can use the extra ra 're to just safely attack over the terrain that impedes you. In addition extra range over more freedom of range meaning you have more movement left to relocate yourself with canto.

That being said, while I mostly prefer Bow Knight over Barbossa Claude, because it's Claude, how does Bow knight stack uo against Wyvern Lord? Is bow Knight just exclusively good because Claude is great? Or is bow knight a peer to wyvern knight due to the virtue or bows > axes? I must say I've never really been disappointed with anyone I've trained as a bow knight, but I've also never felt they were so good that fielding more than one brought many advantages. A full army if bow knights does sound like a fun run though.

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Sounds kinda like Sanaki's Empress class, which could use all offensive magic (outside of Dark). I do like the idea of a Lady Gotoh, though, since... unless I'm mistaken, Nagi is the only one we've really gotten.

Syrene XD best Gotoh in the series.

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Though never crossed my mind, but yes, I support bringing back the support classes. There is just something lost if every single person in your army can fight back, whether they are good at it or not. Having pure support/utility classes gives an extra layer of planning tactics since you have to mind their positioning and stuff so they're out of enemy range while still able to use their support.

Well I can see the logic if it's "can heal and do nothing else". You want to have a unit with a bit more of a role than that. And Fire Emblem does led stave users do more than heal. They can up res with barrier, they can unlock doors and chests, they can extend visibility range in fog of war, they can cure ailments and at high ranks they can inflict negative status, warp/rescue and even raise the dead (and that's not even the most broken thing, I'm looking at you Old Mystery Again staff).

So dedicated staff bots have never been boring. They have a lot of utility. However, outside of Thracia where having a staff rank is instant S tier for a unit, they certainly fan feel boring. I think three are three main reasons for this.

*Niche use of low level staves. Unlocking a door with a staff from range sounds cool and all, but how often are you actually going to do that?

*Low access to high level staves. Sleep is super useful...so useful I'm afraid to use it.

*Limited inventory space. This is the biggest issue with stave users I think. You're going to give them a healing staff. Plus physic for long range healing, that's a given. And she  you promote them you want to give them at least one weapon to attack with. Then what do you do with your last inventory slots? Are you going to use a niche staff that you probably won't use this map? Or are you going to use a powerful low use staff that you might want to save for later? The reality is that there are too many things a staff user can do, yet they have limited inventory space to actually use them.

So, in truth, dedicated staff bots should be much better in games with Three House's mp system. As the different utility staves aren't competing with each other for space. And the high level staves will be encouraged to be used as they recharge each map. If Three Houses gave us a class that couldn't attack but got free access to rescue, warp, barrier, physic and sleep they would be super useful even if their ability to attack was removed completely.

[Metal Flash]

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Sounds kinda like Sanaki's Empress class, which could use all offensive magic (outside of Dark). I do like the idea of a Lady Gotoh, though, since... unless I'm mistaken, Nagi is the only one we've really gotten.

How about a Bard who plays different instruments to have different effects? To simplify animations, they could all be woodwinds. Say, an Oboe that raises Defense, or a Clarinet that improves Speed.

Right, I forgot her class is basically the same. But yes, a female Gotoh would be nice, hopefully an old lady.

I can dig that.

[Dark Holy Elf]

7 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

No, drag me back into dark ages! Dedicated rallybots, Merlinus-style Convoys, maybe even another Smitebot. Give us more weird units in general, whose utility falls outside the obvious realm of combat prowess.

 

I don't mind a character with mediocre combat who is more oriented towards utility. I quite dislike when they have literally zero combat though. With a healer, it makes playing them incredibly algorithmic; every turn you just find someone to heal. Nobody to heal? Nothing you can do, just position yourself where you'll be able to heal people next turn. In 3H, even someone whose job is mostly to heal, e.g. a typical Linhardt, I instead find myself asking "is his action this turn better spent healing, or tossing a wind spell for some small damage which might help me secure a kill?" That's a pretty large improvement IMO. I like combat being a baseline thing everyone can do, both for the tactical options it offers and for flavour reasons. We're in the middle of a battle, here!

@Jotari brings up that sometimes there are other status staff options, but in most FEs these mostly only exist in the second half of the game (where your healer will be able to attack anyway). Sometimes the first half of the game will give things like Unlock and Torch which are only occasionally relevant and even then just mimic the effects of existing items, I use them more as a source of exp than because I care about them in their own right; they're not interesting tactical options.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

3 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I like combat being a baseline thing everyone can do, both for the tactical options it offers and for flavour reasons. We're in the middle of a battle, here!

Ironically, I prefer the existence of "pure support" classes for flavor reasons. Sometimes you get characters who are pacifists, or who cannot fight for whatever reason. Maybe a disability prevents them from swinging a weapon around, while they also lack an aptitude for magic. That doesn't necessarily mean they can't contribute to your army's mission. I think removing the "everyone has to have combat ability" actually widens the window of potential characters you can have at your side.

5 hours ago, lenticular said:

On the subject of pure support classes, I'm somewhat ambivalent. My one big hope is that if they do exist, then they have a decent levelling curve that roughly keeps pace with combat units. I don't want support units that race off multiple levels ahead of everyone else, and I definitely don't want support units where you have to make sure that you are healing every single turn, even if it's only for 1hp, just to manage to stay five levels below everyone else.

This is a good point. If there's one thing I don't want back about the GBA/Tellius-era "pure healing" classes, it's the experience curve. Using Laura in every available chapter, then getting to Part III where she's not even level 10 unpromoted yet... it's absurd.

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

On the subject of pure support classes, I'm somewhat ambivalent. My one big hope is that if they do exist, then they have a decent levelling curve that roughly keeps pace with combat units. I don't want support units that race off multiple levels ahead of everyone else, and I definitely don't want support units where you have to make sure that you are healing every single turn, even if it's only for 1hp, just to manage to stay five levels below everyone else.

I remember not much caring for Bow Knight Ashe on Maddening. It seems like a good class for him - he's strong in Bows, neutral in Riding, and has a budding talent in Lances. Yet, once you get him there... there's not much for him to do. He can only double the slowest foes, outside of using a Brave Bow or the Inexhaustible. He doesn't have the best Bow arts: Deadeye never lands, and Waning Shot is, at best, a slightly stronger Curved Shot. Against everything but fliers and magic users, he won't be doing much more than chip damage. Part of this is just "Ashe Bad", admittedly, but it's undeniable that his proficiencies lend themselves to the class. I definitely want to give Bow Knight Claude a fair shot, but for the time being, the class feels very much "excellent on Point-Blank Volley units, meh on everyone else".

3 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

Right, I forgot her class is basically the same. But yes, a female Gotoh would be nice, hopefully an old lady.

More "old lady" units in general, please! And none of this Nyx "I was cursed to look like a teenage girl" nonsense. More withered old crones, like the notorious Niime.

6 hours ago, lenticular said:

To really simplify animations, they could have the class sing instead of play instruments, and have different songs have different effects. Maybe learning new songs as they level up. Could have one to refresh, one to heal, maybe one to raise biorhythm or to fill a transform gauge? Nah, bad idea. Biorhythms and transform gauges were awful and shouldn't come back.

I like it! But they should make it so that the healing, biorhythm, and transform gauge songs come before the Refreshing one. Obviously, the Refreshing one is the strongest of the bunch. So if you got it first, then it's the only one you'd ever use, and the other ones may as well not exist.

[Dark Holy Elf]

8 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Ironically, I prefer the existence of "pure support" classes for flavor reasons. Sometimes you get characters who are pacifists, or who cannot fight for whatever reason. Maybe a disability prevents them from swinging a weapon around, while they also lack an aptitude for magic. That doesn't necessarily mean they can't contribute to your army's mission. I think removing the "everyone has to have combat ability" actually widens the window of potential characters you can have at your side.

 

A tangent: if you're actively out there on the field helping your friends kill things, I don't think you can call yourself a pacifist, even if you're not the one swinging the weapon. Is an army officer who sees no direct combat a pacifist? Is a tactician?

There might be a space for a character with a particular disability that prevents them from attacking enemies but is still able to move around a battlefield and contribute, I'm not opposed to that. But that seems like a very specific design for one character, not a class. Notice the vast majority of staff users in FE don't fit either description you proposed, they're just unable to defend themselves for.... some reason, and whatever the reason is, it vanishes when they touch a shiny magical crest or, if in Tellius, get enough experience to reach Level 21.

8 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I definitely want to give Bow Knight Claude a fair shot, but for the time being, the class feels very much "excellent on Point-Blank Volley units, meh on everyone else".

Oh man, if you've never tried it on someone like Claude or Felix, you're in for a treat. It more than most classes really benefits from good offensive stats (so yeah, sorry Ashe, not you), and also having a good array of weapons for different occasions, so you can double/quad enemies for high damage with insanely good flexibility in terms of movement and attacking. As a bonus it's second only to siege tomes for handing out linked attack bonuses (particularly notable as Claude buffs both Byleth and Hilda, and Felix buffs both Sylvain and Ingrid). On my most recent run of the game ("imitate old FE", so no gambits / CAs / skills / etc.), Bow Knight Felix was insanely good, and that was without Death Blow.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Dark Holy Elf

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

 

I don't mind a character with mediocre combat who is more oriented towards utility. I quite dislike when they have literally zero combat though. With a healer, it makes playing them incredibly algorithmic; every turn you just find someone to heal. Nobody to heal? Nothing you can do, just position yourself where you'll be able to heal people next turn. In 3H, even someone whose job is mostly to heal, e.g. a typical Linhardt, I instead find myself asking "is his action this turn better spent healing, or tossing a wind spell for some small damage which might help me secure a kill?" That's a pretty large improvement IMO. I like combat being a baseline thing everyone can do, both for the tactical options it offers and for flavour reasons. We're in the middle of a battle, here!

@Jotari brings up that sometimes there are other status staff options, but in most FEs these mostly only exist in the second half of the game (where your healer will be able to attack anyway). Sometimes the first half of the game will give things like Unlock and Torch which are only occasionally relevant and even then just mimic the effects of existing items, I use them more as a source of exp than because I care about them in their own right; they're not interesting tactical options.

Barrier and unlock, yeah, those are just free exp, but the torch staff is super useful. And the inventory issue is eliminated as you know from the start which chapter it will be useful in. For of war is one of the most player unfriendly mechanics in the series, so something like torch to counteract it is a godsend. And unlike the hand torches (also a good idea) it can be used at range to light up a significant portion of the map.

[lenticular]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Ironically, I prefer the existence of "pure support" classes for flavor reasons. Sometimes you get characters who are pacifists, or who cannot fight for whatever reason. Maybe a disability prevents them from swinging a weapon around, while they also lack an aptitude for magic. That doesn't necessarily mean they can't contribute to your army's mission. I think removing the "everyone has to have combat ability" actually widens the window of potential characters you can have at your side.

I like this idea in theory, but how many times has Fire Emblem actually done this? The herons in Tellius definitely fit, since they had good lore/flavour reasons why they couldn't fight. But beyond that? Maybe Merlinus? But I don't think it would really hurt his character if he could swing a sword a bit, but was just very bad at it. Those are the only ones that I'm really thinking of immediately who have a reason why they can't ever fight.

I'm also not sure how well this would work in a game where reclassing exists. They'd need to both ban the individual character from ever reclassing into a fighting class, and also ban other units from reclassing into the class. And that would work fine for something like a heron (or a dancer or some other equivalent), but I can't see it working for basic support classes like healers.

[AnonymousSpeed]

I can't stand units who only fight things. It becomes incredibly formulaic, just attack an enemy every turn. No enemies in range? Well, I guess you're not doing anything. I think we should get rid of all classes without staves.

[Acacia Sgt]

32 minutes ago, lenticular said:

I like this idea in theory, but how many times has Fire Emblem actually done this? The herons in Tellius definitely fit, since they had good lore/flavour reasons why they couldn't fight. But beyond that? Maybe Merlinus? But I don't think it would really hurt his character if he could swing a sword a bit, but was just very bad at it. Those are the only ones that I'm really thinking of immediately who have a reason why they can't ever fight.

I'm also not sure how well this would work in a game where reclassing exists. They'd need to both ban the individual character from ever reclassing into a fighting class, and also ban other units from reclassing into the class. And that would work fine for something like a heron (or a dancer or some other equivalent), but I can't see it working for basic support classes like healers.

Thieves could be turned into such. In fact, that's what Vestaria more or less did. Thieves could still fight back, but their Str cap was a pitiful 3 (same for their promotion), and their weapon type, daggers, only had like 2MT at the most... but the majority would have additional effects instead like a stat increase, a Brave effect, or a Skill effect, etc. Plus the standard Thief stuff.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

59 minutes ago, lenticular said:

I like this idea in theory, but how many times has Fire Emblem actually done this? The herons in Tellius definitely fit, since they had good lore/flavour reasons why they couldn't fight. But beyond that? Maybe Merlinus? But I don't think it would really hurt his character if he could swing a sword a bit, but was just very bad at it. Those are the only ones that I'm really thinking of immediately who have a reason why they can't ever fight.

I'm also not sure how well this would work in a game where reclassing exists. They'd need to both ban the individual character from ever reclassing into a fighting class, and also ban other units from reclassing into the class. And that would work fine for something like a heron (or a dancer or some other equivalent), but I can't see it working for basic support classes like healers.

Well the GBA dancers would count too. We don't know what their morals are regarding fighting, but there's definitely a suggestion that they literally can't fight on the level of trained fighters, be it physically able to or philosophically capable (probably the former for the likes of Larum and the latter for Nils and Ninian who have at least emergency fitting capabilities)

Edited July 30, 2022 by Jotari

[Dark Holy Elf]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Barrier and unlock, yeah, those are just free exp, but the torch staff is super useful. And the inventory issue is eliminated as you know from the start which chapter it will be useful in. For of war is one of the most player unfriendly mechanics in the series, so something like torch to counteract it is a godsend. And unlike the hand torches (also a good idea) it can be used at range to light up a significant portion of the map.

A torch used by a thief is a significantly stronger effect than the Torch Staff in most games, because its effect stacks with the Thief's already high fog vision. Additionally, the Thief is typically more durable, and able to counter, so they can more safely dash out to the front lines and use one. Other than that, the specifics vary by game, but in Binding Blade, for instance, the Torch Staff actually has the same effect as a Torch.In others it can go a bit further, but usually only in one direction, and still not as far as a torch-using thief.

I definitely find the Torch Staff is something I spam for exp first and foremost, myself.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

A torch used by a thief is a significantly stronger effect than the Torch Staff in most games, because its effect stacks with the Thief's already high fog vision. Additionally, the Thief is typically more durable, and able to counter, so they can more safely dash out to the front lines and use one. Other than that, the specifics vary by game, but in Binding Blade, for instance, the Torch Staff actually has the same effect as a Torch.In others it can go a bit further, but usually only in one direction, and still not as far as a torch-using thief.

I definitely find the Torch Staff is something I spam for exp first and foremost, myself.

Its not like the things are in competition. You can use them both in tandem. Being able to light up a piece if the map you haven't reached yet is definitely an advantage during fog of war. That being said it's only useful during fog of war, so you will be making sure to use up the remaining charges before the end of the map considering it's useless afterwards.