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Which characters were improved in Three Hopes, and which characters came off worse?


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There are subtle or not so subtle differences between the cast of Three Houses and Three Hopes. Some characters ended up having more screentime, more personality traits or had flaws in their characterization addressed. On the other hand some characters were also flandarized or got their screentime vastly reduced. 

So which characters do you think got improved in Three Hopes, and which characters do you think ended up as worse when compared to their Three Houses self

Better:

Byleth: I think this is the easy one. In Three Houses Byleth bored me. They were just a mute Avatar. In this game however they do have dialogue, and they do have a personality worth speaking off. Rather than a mute they're more of an emotionless doll which can come off as kinda endearing. The game struck a fine balance between giving Byleth a personality and staying true to their previous characterization as extremely subdued. 

Jeralt: Byleth being a real character greatly helps Jeralt. Its easier to buy the two having a bond when Byleth can actually speak to the guy, and clumsily convey how close they are. Jeralt is also no longer shackled by his role as ''the dead dad'' which means he can actually do things. He's not exactly mindblowing in this game but at least Jeralt can be an actual character this time around. 

Hubert: I always liked Hubert but he comes off as more humanized in Three Hopes. He's does things beyond being Edelgard's shady subordinate such as doting on Lysithea for reminding him of his family, trying and failing to act nicely to others, or venting about how amazing coffee is. In general Hubert comes across as gentler and somewhat more comedic. 

Leonie: Jeralt being an actual character who Leonie can actually interact with changes things. It makes her whole cApTAiN jErAlT'' gimmick less annoying and more endearing. Leonie also seems a tad less harsh in general, coming off as more cheerful and innocent. 

Claude: Claude actually schemes now and has a story that's actually about him. That's a rather strong improvement. 

Jeritza: I always felt that Jeritza was kind of silly, which this game decides to take and run with. He ended up being really funny as a wacky and barely interested teacher in the first mission. Later on him being so antisocial and tired of everyone's antics is equally funny.

Ferdinant von Aegir: Ferdie was always great, but there's more drama around his dad which helps make him more interesting.

Rhea: 

She seems more consistent this time around. I really liked crazy Rhea and the performance of Cherami Leigh, but I think the insanity was also a bit too sudden and mostly as a plot device to make Edelgard look good. Here Rhea seems more of a mix between normal Rhea and crazy Rhea, Kind and benevolent when things go well, but very quick to wish the worst on her enemies when it doesn't. 

Worse:

Seteth: Poor Seteth, what have they done to you? The best aspect about Seteth how he was so surprisingly nice, helpful and wise in his support. For some bizarre reason Three Hopes responded to this by taking all the man's supports away from him. Non students in general get fewer supports but even compared to them Seteth's supports are a barren wasteland. Lorewise Seteth also got strongly nerfed. In Three Houses he can solo the western church and Hubert deems him a far bigger deal than Alois and Shamir. Meanwhile in this game he gets beaten up by random bandits. 

Annette: Only mildly so but I think Three Hopes flanderized her a bit. Annette's songs are adorable but they're a minor part of her personality, not something so many supports should resolve around.

Thales: Its too late to pretend he's a big deal, so Azure Gleam doing exactly that didn't amuse me.

Raphael: In Three Houses Raphael was already an extremely one note character, with a ''lol food and training'' gimmick I found neither interesting nor funny. In Three Hopes they somehow increased this aspect of his character even more. In Three Houses there were very brief moments where rather than focusing around food they focused on what an amazingly kind guy Raphael is. That aspect of his character didn't really come up this time around which leaves just the boring parts of his personality. 

 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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A lot of the differences are circumstantial.

To use some of your examples, Leonie is a lot better because you're not playing as Byleth, and thus Leonie isn't jealous of you. In fact, you're a veteran mercenary who Leonie looks up to, which makes interacting with her much more interesting, because the two of you have that shared experience to connect with.

Similarly, Rhea doesn't go crazy because she's not really confronted with Byleth (in essence her mother) turning against her. Rhea is still just as unstable, a thousand years later she still hasn't processed her grief at the death of her mother in a healthy manner, she's just not forced to actually confront it in Three Hopes, and thus she doesn't completely lose her shit.

I think Dimitri was in a much better place for similar, circumstantial reasons. He still has the same mental health issues he had in Three Houses, but they haven't been exacerbated by 5 years of solitude, stewing in his own hatred and guilt, and instead he's spent two years surrounded by friends who care about him, he has an actual support system, including people willing to tell him 'no, shut up, you're dumb' when he tries to shoulder all of the burden himself, and remind him that this isn't just his fight.

A lot of the problems involving characters who seem worse in Three Hopes are side effects of another problem: Three Hopes has way fewer support conversations than Three Houses, there's not nearly as much opportunity to establish character, which unfortunately leads to some characters seeming more one-note. Many characters have hardly any support conversations at all. That said, the expeditions do a decent amount to alleviate that problem, and are way better at helping to establish character and learn about the characters as people than teatime did in Three Houses. Which is probably why I don't share your opinion of Annette in Three Hopes, she's very cute during the expeditions, and I actually enjoy that they flesh her out a bit beyond 'clumsy hard worker'. I especially enjoy her supports with Dedue where she's struggling to use Crusher due to how freaking heavy it is.

I also very much enjoy what they did with Sylvain and Felix in Three Hopes. Felix was kinda forced to mellow out a little because he's been a Duke for two years, he has responsibility, he can't afford to just be a fight gremlin anymore. And his growth makes me proud, he's become a very competent advisor, and imo one of the main reasons Dimitri is so much more mentally healthy in this timeline, because he has Felix to actually push back when his self-hatred/martyr complex starts acting up. Meanwhile, Sylvain actually growing up and abandoning his fuckboy ways in favor of actual maturity and responsibility is a welcome change, it's great to see Sylvain actually being clever and reasonable more often. We knew he was smart in Three Houses, but the amount of time he spent thinking with his... lower half sorta overshadowed his intellect at times.

Overall, I feel like despite being only a two year time skip instead of a five year time skip, the cast in Three Houses has oddly enough done more growing up.

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Raphael is a trash character in both games who has exactly one funny line between them - suggesting that the lunch lady could be a villain. They should have made the lunch lady Kronya in disguise just to fuck with him.

 

Better

Byleth, because they now have a character.

Claude finally feels like Claude

Sylvain doesn't spend half his screen time being an obnoxious misogynistic pick-up artist in this one. Instead he shows some progressive and forward thinking politics and inventions.

Felix's caring side is emphasized more here. He's really quite the Tsundere.

Ferdinand von Aegir is amazing as ever, and I'm glad Billy was able to deliver such a final performance.

Edelgard, despite losing all fashion sense, is more understandable in this one. Her plan makes more sense, and she's easier to root for.

Hilda feels like a real counterbalance to Claude this time. Basically, Claude's improved characterization also improved her.

Bernadetta's got a few new running jokes that make her role as a meme character really work. The jokes at her dad's expense are actually really funny.

Thales, because he exists and seems like an actual threat.

The Wolves - having screen time was of great benefit to all of them. They actually do feel like organic members of the cast - in all routes but especially Scarlet Blaze.

 

Worse

Cornelia comes across much less competent, honestly. So does Solon.

Mentally stable Dimitri is a less interesting Dimitri. He's just diet Ike with a little bit of edge. Worse actually, because he's the equivalent of an AU Ike that becomes a puppet for the Begnion senate.

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From my Azure Gleam full recruitment playthrough:

Better - 

Sylvain - he's a LOT more mature and handles it well. 

Felix - This is a hard one, since both timeskip versions of Felix in Dimitri's stories are fantastic. 

Dedue - Because there are more people of Duscur to interact with and talk about. 

Ingrid - Glenn's death and her relationship with Duscur are handled with a lot of grace, nuance, and maturity in a way that isn't fully seen in Three Houses. 

Bernadetta - Her trauma is clearly played for laughs this time around, and the fact that it's far more comedic means its far easier to deal with in all honesty. 

Jeralt - Comes with the territory of being given more to do. I'm still salty he didn't get a dad support with Seteth or Rodrigue, but I now low-key ship him and Manuela. (What is it with Manuela having the best supports with dads who are widowers in mourning even years later?)

Yuri - I just liked him more this time around. 

Ignatz, I think? Him being a knight certainly gives him more to do, and the variety of supports I saw from him certainly gave him dimension that he didn't have in Three Houses, but I'd need to see Golden Wildfire to see it play out in full. 

 

Worse - 

Annette, maybe? I don't think she's bad, but I don't think she particularly shines either. And none of the supports I saw from her had her singing! That is a terrible crime, just TERRIBLE! Hopefully I just missed the one where she did. (Also, the chance to give Annette and Dorothea a singing support is sorely missed.) 

 

 

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I can confirm that there are plenty of supports where Annette sings, like her supports with Sylvain and Felix.

I also really enjoyed Byleth in Three Hopes. Byleth in Three Houses was boring as shit, because silent protagonists are basically always boring as shit. They had no character in Three Houses. But in Three Hopes, they actually address the difficulties Byleth has with their dampened emotions, show how hard it is for them to relate to people, even simple things like them not processing jokes were actually really interesting. The whole emotionless automaton thing can actually really work as a character archetype if you actually explore it. Not to mention, when you are playing as Byleth, you never really appreciate how intimidating it makes them. Fighting against Byleth in Three Hopes felt like facing a Terminator, the whole completely stoic, emotionless machine thing went from being really boring to genuinely intimidating when facing it from the other side.

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The only way to make silent protagonists fun is through 1) facial expression (Byleth actually had a solid one in their Manuela support in Three Houses), 2) by having other characters lampshade this (Hapi calling Byleth Chatterbox), and 3) playing the fact that other characters are monologuing at you for drama and laughs (I'd consider The Secret World to be a good example).

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I've just started delving into the supports, but my initial impression is that this game is leaving me with a much more favorable take on Edelgard.

Like--not enough to say she's in the right or move off my position that Claude's ideology and vision is the cause I'd most want to get behind.

But she's definitely coming across as more of a social visionary with a well thought-out agenda and legitimate need to make the decisions she makes to see it enacted.

And less of a petty tyrant with a chip on her shoulder.   

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Edelgard comes off as better mainly for cutting ties with Those Who Slither In The Dark. She correctly identifies them as a greater threat than the Central Church in this timeline, and uses the church against them, rather than the other way around. Her choice in Three Houses was probably better from a strategic, military perspective, not having TWSITD on her side probably made the war more difficult. But in terms of Fodlan's future, it's a much smarter choice, even if she loses the war against the Central Church, Fodlan would be better off than it would be if Thales got his way (I assume anyway, the actual goals of TWSITD are really vague, it's unclear what they actually plan to do once killing all the children of Sothis, but given their actions so far, it's probably not gonna be a great time for the rest of us).

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Better

Dimitri
I know insane hobo dimitri has his charms, but I actually did't like him all that much. Him going 'rargh everyone is a monster' was a bit annoying and while him foaming at the mouth wasn't uninteresting it also kinda limited his ability to actually take part in the plot. That part of the Edelgard Vs Dimitri conflict just wasn't interesting to me because it was based on nothing. Edelgard had to do nothing, but say 'lol no I did't'  because every single thing Dimitri said just did't need any other response. Because it was total crazytalk that did't add up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny. While the actual questions kinda went unanswered. 

So Dimitri still being haunted and vengeful, but actually able to function was a nice change. He stands against Edelgard because he genuinely has points to make in doing so while still being ruthless and wanting revenge for those that destroyed his like.

Keeping with the blue lions i'm also going to say
Felix. 
The idea of his character was always solid, but he occasionally still came across as more of a asshole then the game probably intended. Here he's still a edgy jerk, but his concern for the rest of team blue lions is a lot more on his sleeve. He doesn't lash out even when nothing is going on at least.

Mercedes
I can't say I cared much for Mercedes in Three houses, but here I found her supports a lot more charming. No big reasons on this one.

Worse
Cyril/Haneman/Giblert: Yeah. They weren't even trying with these three

Alois: Mostly he's a victim of his lack of supports. Joining Gerals isn't out of character, but he just doesn't really get a chance to talk with his collegues about it...or for that matter mention whether he abandoned his wife and kids in doing so.

Manuella
She potentially has a grand number of two supports. Three if you play your cards right. Her being locked to the Beagles is also something I find odd. She was more flexable in Three houses and its not like the golden deer could't have used another character. 

Edited by Sasori
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28 minutes ago, Sasori said:

Dimitri
I know insane hobo dimitri has his charms, but I actually did't like him all that much. Him going 'rargh everyone is a monster' was a bit annoying and while him foaming at the mouth wasn't uninteresting it also kinda limited his ability to actually take part in the plot. That part of the Edelgard Vs Dimitri conflict just wasn't interesting to me because it was based on nothing. Edelgard had to do nothing, but say 'lol no I did't'  because every single thing Dimitri said just did't need any other response. Because it was total crazytalk that did't add up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny. While the actual questions kinda went unanswered. 

So Dimitri still being haunted and vengeful, but actually able to function was a nice change. He stands against Edelgard because he genuinely has points to make in doing so while still being ruthless and wanting revenge for those that destroyed his like.

I am so glad I'm not alone in disliking feral Dimitri. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed his arc in Three Houses, but I've never really understood the appeal of insane Dimitri. His recovery and redemption was very satisfying in Three Houses, but prior to that? He's absolutely insufferable, he's the worst part of Azure Moon. I understand why he's like that, but he's frankly just an asshole for the first half of part 2, and not even an interesting one. His murderous rage and treating his friends like shit got old real quick. Personally, seeing him dealing with the pressures of being king in Three Hopes is much, much more interesting to me.

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Omg. Byleth, Jeralt, Claude and Raphael I agree 100% with you on. Literally and I mean, LITERALLY the same exact thought I had for each of them, wow. Glad to see someone else think the same thing!! But other than those let me give my list (I only played through Golden Wildfire so far, streaming the other 2 currently, so bare with me xD)

Improved:

Lorenz: he already was amazing in Three Houses, but you don't really see that until his development through his latter supports. He almost comes off as someone you are supposed not have as a favorite from the beginning and he grows on you. I feel it was almost intended. In Three Hopes he is incredible. His unique dynamic with Claude is still in tact and I like how their personalities continue to clash in this game as well and he challenges their leader's authrority throughout the game. I do find it far more interesting in this version of the story tho since it's a lot more controversial. Lorenz being a key character overall to the route and almost serving moreso as the vassal/retainer to Claude ala Hubert/Dedue was amazing to see. Him and Hilda felt like they shared the role this time around!!

 

Speaking of....

 

 

Hilda: I can't quite describe it, but I ALWAYS loved Hilda. She was always incredibly unique to me for a fire emblem character. Her whole gimmick, with her gameplay contrasting her personality and her kinda matching the school setting with the "popular" girl vibe was hilarious to me. I feel she was even more charming this time around and the gane actually showing her relationship with her brother instead of just constantly mentioning him like in the previous game, made her character all the better. Their bond felt believeable and the build up from Three Houses totally paid off making Holst and Hilda's supports suprisingly wholesome and endearing to watch. Hilda serving as a crutch to Claude and emotional support was always cute to me. And I feel that fits her character perfectly and agree with the direction they decided to do for how they tackled the Golden Deer's version of the right-hand vassal.

 

Lysithea: She was less bratty, and more funny to be honest. Her antics actually had a more charm to me personally this time around. In Three Houses, while still charming, made her come off a bit unlikeable sometimes.

 

Last but not least and of course....

 

Hapi: Here's the thing, Hapi is my favorite character and she was already perfect to me. But they somehow made her even more charming. Everything that worked with Hapi before, works even better here somehow. Good supports, good dialogue, good voice acting. Very sweet character, hilarious and true to her previous iteration. What's there more to say? She still made me happy, as always 😉

 

 

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Scarlet Blaze only so far.

I'm not sure if I'd say Hubert is strictly better or not, but I love that he gets a lot more time to shine. Some of his most humanizing moments were tucked away in supports in the original game, but now we get a very complete picture of him much more readily. Love that grumpy, cranky, team mom who hates being praised or even just perceived. His relationship with Edelgard is much more front-and-centre now and great. So for now he gets my vote.

Also agreed that the wolves feel a bit more natural this time around and I'm enjoying that. And Jeritza's earlygame role was wonderful, as are his supports playing up some of the comic aspects of the character. Manuela: "If you smile more, people will want to talk to you! Won't you like that?" Jeritza: (horrified) "No."

 

Not super-enthused by Rhea so far, on the other end of the spectrum. I'm kinda the opposite of OP in that I thought her portrayal in Three Houses was excellent: the whole "very nice until you don't do what she tells you to" made for a great antagonist buildup on CF. We just don't get that here; we're told she's tyrannical but don't get to see it the way we did with such brilliant lines as "I pray the students learned a valuable lesson about the fate that awaits all who are foolish enough to point their blades towards the heavens."

 

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8 hours ago, ZanaLyrander said:

Leonie is a lot better because you're not playing as Byleth, and thus Leonie isn't jealous of you. In fact, you're a veteran mercenary who Leonie looks up to, which makes interacting with her much more interesting, because the two of you have that shared experience to connect with.

This.

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I think one thing worth pointing out is how much the game relies on knowledge from Three Hopes, for example, Sylvain being all "ugh, I can't believe I though womanising was a good idea" doesn't come across as well without seeing his womanising ways. So regardless of who's better or worse, their portrayals in Three Houses is required for a full understanding/appreciation of their portrayal in Three Hopes. Anyways:

Better:

Byleth and Jeralt: as has been explained by others

Edelgard: people have already mentioned how she severed ties with TWSITD, but it also helps that she isn't worshipping Byleth or spreading propaganda. Also, I like that it's made clear she's only aiming to destroy the central church; clarity is important.

Claude: he's just been given a whole lot more depth; he strategizes, we get a lot more on Almyra, and his route is a whole lot better.

Hubert: I feel he distinguishes himself more from Edelgard this time; his open distrust of Shez, his friendship with Ferdinand, and his acts outside of Edelgards authority have some more impact.

Ferdinand Von Aegir: Three Houses touches upon his guilt regarding his father, but here it's his whole arc, and I really enjoyed it.

Felix: what I said regarding Three Houses especially applies to the Blue Lions for me. Felix has responsibility and takes it seriously, nuff said.

Sylvain: basically already explained what makes him better, but I also like the responsibility he shows in some support conversations, like with Shez and Yuri.

Ingrid: I think her improvement feels like the smallest, but I still thought she grew more here.

Rodrigue: this is mostly because he has support conversation, so we learn more about him.

Hilda: her responsible side is more apparent here (I'm saying that a lot), and so is her strength. Also seeing her with her Brother shows us what we were only told in Three Houses.

Lorenz: I think his stance on the role of Nobility is portrayed more politely here, and... more responsibility... you know what, that's a common point all around.

Ignatz: his supports seemed to have a bit more world building, especially the implication of his and Sylvain's supports.

Balthus: basically because Holst is there

Constance: because there's more of her

Hapi: because nicknames

Solon: because it's cathartic seeing him be used for the Zarhas spell.

Ones that are better simply because there's more of them: Kronya and Duke Aegir

Others I won't bother explaining: Lysithia and Leonie

Worse:

Most of them is simply because there's not enough of them: Rhea, Seteth, Flayn, most of the Knights, really, Manuela, Jeritza, etc

Though I have an interesting opinion with Thales: comparing him to Three Houses post-timeskip, definitely had a stronger role, but compared to White Clouds Thales, he doesn't seem as intimidating.

A problem both games share is that we don't get cutscenes with the Villains post-timeskip, with one or two exceptions. There should've been one of two scenes with the Knights of Serios and TWSITD discussing current affairs, and maybe she'd some light on a couple things.

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I disagree. Thales actually getting to do stuff and be the generic villain he always was but with actual spotlight is pretty cool. He was gassed up as a problem in Three Houses too only to wave him off quickly, it was pathetic. He doesn't even die by the lord, he gets knocked back and dies by his own nukes... Laughable.

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I love the fact that we've finally got an alliance focused route (I played Verdant Wind right after Silver Snow, so this is very appealing to me). It's not the best story in the world, but it does address some of my biggest complaints from route 2 routes of Three Houses in general, that being that there was never any real struggle in the war. Characters just win with any set backs being pretty token. All that being said...I kind of don't like Claude in Three Hopes. Yeah, he schemes. And his schemes are good and fun. But his character himself is kind of, idk, wishwashy. He's constantly doubting himself and those around himself. Even when he wins he always seems to look at things in a pessimistic way. Whereas Three Houses Claude is a massive optimist. He's the guy who defeated racism overnight. It was stupid, but fuck it he had charm and he charmed me. I liked Claude in Three Houses, where as in Three Hopes, I can't say he's a bad character in isolation, it's understandable why they made him struggle more, as it's kind of the inherent part of character writing (hell I started this post praising the war having actual struggle), but he just doesn't do it for me.

Spoiler

Dissolving the most interesting political set up in the series in order to become more authoritarian like everyone else also kind of left a sour taste in my mouth. Though again I can't really fault the plot in terms of basic plot writing as it did justify and choregraph things, I just don't think there was any great thematic justification. Really most of my complaints come down to him not being what I want him to be rather than there actually being much wrong with him. I'd probably be a lot more inclined to him if he were a new character in a new plot for a new game.

21 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

 

Raphael: In Three Houses Raphael was already an extremely one note character, with a ''lol food and training'' gimmick I found neither interesting nor funny. In Three Hopes they somehow increased this aspect of his character even more. In Three Houses there were very brief moments where rather than focusing around food they focused on what an amazingly kind guy Raphael is. That aspect of his character didn't really come up this time around which leaves just the boring parts of his personality. 

 

They actually do go into this aspect of him in his paralogue. The character still doesn't quite gel with me though. I actually think the direction for his voice acting is a bit off, as, even in  Three Houses, they made him a bit to much of a figurative meathead and didn't make his depths pronunced. Or maybe he just doesn't appeal to me as a character because he's lacking in gameplay. The two things aren't always unrelated.

Edited by Jotari
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I'll mirror what's been said earlier about Sylvain actually being likable this time and not a complete and utter creep, and I love how they handled Felix and Ferdinand too. Felix is much more even-handed this time instead of being a full-on tsundere and Ferdinand is basically a minor protagonist in Scarlet Blaze (on top of having some of my favorite Supports here). I also really like the deconstruction of Byleth*: both the serious stuff like exploring their emotionlessness and the intimidation factor of the Ashen Demon, but also the meta jokes about them always talking to themselves and "having a huge appetite but also going days without eating" (as a bonus, Byleth likes every single type of food in the menu).

Also: Gustave seems to start talking to Annette much earlier than before: still doesn't stop him being a terrible father, but I appreciate the change all the same.

While Leonie isn't jealous of Shez, I actually thought the Jeralt obsession was worse this time around, since now she takes personal offence to him spending time around his own flesh and blood instead of he. She also has a small arrogant streak I don't remember seeing in Houses (namely in her Ignatz Support). I still like her, but Hopes did some weird stuff with her.

I don't think anyone else felt worse to me really, though I may be self-correcting for the lack of screentime... except maybe Alois? I just think it's odd that he would ditch a stable job and his family to be a mercenary: his daughter's just a kid to boot!

* I really wish they got more to do. Heck, I'd even take a side-story centered on them, now that we can hear them talk (though part of what interested me about them is their relationship with Sothis and Rhea, which would be trickier to do in this timeline as it stands... then again, Cindered Shadows was non-canon, so there's that).

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Golden Wildfire

Better:

-Hilda: She was already good in TH, but this route gave her a lot more chances to shine. Thanks to Holst being an actual character we get to see their relationship fleshed out (same with Balthus for that matter), due to the story having a more focused narrative she gets more chances to contribute as a retainer, and overall feels more well-rounded as a character. 

-Lorenz: Similar to Hilda it helps to have an actual face to the family member that plays the biggest part in how their character is, and he gets more opportunities to shine as Claude's left-hand man.

-Byleth: I don't really mind the mute angle they were going with in TH, but I do agree that it sometimes hurt their intended character interactions and how it was meant to reflect on them. Here, since they actually speak we get a better feel for who they were before they got emotions, and we actually properly see them as a mercenary and their relationship with Jeralt. Also, playing them as the dreaded demon that the player has to overcome in some way was a nice angle to go since TH establishes them as a powerful force and seeing it on the other end could be pretty unsettling.  

Mixed:

-Claude: I like the fact that we do get to see the shadier side of the character as that was underplayed in the original, and having the darker side of the character shown helps indicate how much he also needed Byleth to help guide him in VW. However, I do think despite his route giving him more focus the motivation behind him is lacking as Rhea is absent for most of the route aside from the last two chapters and his accusations on the isolationism of the Church is never fully delved into in either Three Houses or Three Hopes. 

-Raphael: The paralogue he gets is better at giving him closure to what happened to his parents and thus, his willingness to not open old wounds and move on becomes stronger as a character trait. However, as said before it's counterbalanced by his one-note personality getting worse, so he only barely improves overall.  

Worse:

-Rhea: She's functionally the main antagonist of the route and somehow still doesn't really exist until you fight her two (four with the secret chapters) chapters from the end. Compared to something like Crimson Flower where we get to follow her sanity slippage far more closely, she feels very lacking as we barely get to understand the clash of ideals they're supposed to have, and even Three Houses doesn't give enough context to help.

-Cyril: We do get to see his relationship with Rhea shown off, which makes his affection for her retroactively better, but they screw him over in almost every other way. He's not a playable character and thus gets nothing in terms of supports, and is ultimately just cannon fodder for the team to take down on the way to Rhea. He doesn't even get acknowledged by Claude this time around, not even one line of dialogue.

-Alois: There's really little excuse for him not to be a playable character when he gets to be a part of Jeralt's mercenaries and Byleth and Jeralt are playable. It would've been nice to see how working alongside a man he respects so much in a new field affected him.

Edited by Medeus
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9 minutes ago, Medeus said:

Claude: I like the fact that we do get to see the shadier side of the character as that was underplayed in the original, and having the darker side of the character shown helps indicate how much he also needed Byleth to help guide him in VW. However, I do think despite his route giving him more focus the motivation behind him is lacking as Rhea is absent for most of the route aside from the last two chapters and his accusations on the isolationism of the Church is never fully delved into in either Three Houses or Three Hopes. 

I think one way Claude could be improved on in both games here would be if the game actually came out and said that he has different religious beliefs than the church. Like he believed in some kind of Almyrian Animism or something. Because, he kind of has to right? He was raised in Almyria after all (though I suppose his mother could have raised him as an adherent if Seiros depending on how devout she is, though she's probably not that devout if she's running off to hook up with heathens). Making him of a different faith makes a more tangible reason for him to want to see the church reformed rather than "they're opressing some people...somewhere." This is particularly bad in Three Hopes where we barely see the church at all. They kind of expect you to have played Three Houses to see the church's dirty laundry (and even Three Houses doesn't do a great job of it).

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While I'm still in the process of fully playing through Three Hopes (finished Scarlet Blaze and Azure Gleam, in progress for Golden Wildfire), the one character that stood out to me the most in Three Hopes is Lorenz.

In Three Houses, I didn't care much for him. Hilda served as the retainer and Lorenz just did Lorenz things with his views on the nobility and the commonfolk. While I didn't hate Lorenz (only one character in TH is on my dislike list), I was just indifferent to his antics.
-- Meanwhile, in Three Hopes, the inclusion of his father and the importance of House Gloucester changed my views on him. Sure, he's still Lorenz, but now I feel like I know much more about where he is coming from and his motivations. It helps that I love Count Gloucester's character, his wisdom, and the voice.
* * * * * * * * * *
On the flip side, I'd say poor Alois got the short stick. I love the guy, but it seems he has been reduced to a pun-making machine every time he appears in Three Hopes. I'm not sure if its just the writing or the fact that Alois has less screentime overall to showcase his other qualities, but Three Hopes Alois seems weaker than his Three Houses counterpart.
* * * * * * * * * *
Overall though, I still love most of the characters and enjoyed seeing this alternative version of them. Comparing and contrasting them to their Three House counteparts is great.
-- The only thing I miss is Azure Moon Dimitri, but that story has already been told so I understand why its not present for Three Hopes.

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9 hours ago, Sire said:

the one character that stood out to me the most in Three Hopes is Lorenz.

In Three Houses, I didn't care much for him. Hilda served as the retainer and Lorenz just did Lorenz things with his views on the nobility and the commonfolk. While I didn't hate Lorenz (only one character in TH is on my dislike list), I was just indifferent to his antics.
-- Meanwhile, in Three Hopes, the inclusion of his father and the importance of House Gloucester changed my views on him. Sure, he's still Lorenz, but now I feel like I know much more about where he is coming from and his motivations. It helps that I love Count Gloucester's character, his wisdom, and the voice.

I agree with this. I thought his role in the Raphael/Ignatz paralogue was good, too; we learn more about who he is and what he stands for. And of course, unlike Three Houses, there isn't a support featuring him responding to statements from women expressing discomfort at his (unintentionally) creepy behaviour with "someone is trying to slander me, professor".

Regarding Alois, it's a shame he's not better in this game because I loved seeing him show up with Jeralt's mercenaries; it feels like a very natural fit for him.

 

On reflection I'm adding Petra to the list of characters improved by this game. I always liked Petra, but she's allowed to show more fire this time around, and bare her feelings. Her Edelgard and Hubert supports deal much more explicitly with how she is using this war to improve Brigid's standing and make for good relations with Fodlan going forward. I know she's recruitable on at least one other route so I hope she gets something there, too; she had a tendency to sometimes feel "along for the ride" in Three Houses.

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1 minute ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I agree with this. I thought his role in the Raphael/Ignatz paralogue was good, too; we learn more about who he is and what he stands for. And of course, unlike Three Houses, there isn't a support featuring him responding to statements from women expressing discomfort at his (unintentionally) creepy behaviour with "someone is trying to slander me, professor".

Regarding Alois, it's a shame he's not better in this game because I loved seeing him show up with Jeralt's mercenaries; it feels like a very natural fit for him.

 

On reflection I'm adding Petra to the list of characters improved by this game. I always liked Petra, but she's allowed to show more fire this time around, and bare her feelings. Her Edelgard and Hubert supports deal much more explicitly with how she is using this war to improve Brigid's standing and make for good relations with Fodlan going forward. I know she's recruitable on at least one other route so I hope she gets something there, too; she had a tendency to sometimes feel "along for the ride" in Three Houses.

Petra is recruitable in all routes, which I like. She has concerns beyond this war, she needs to live for the sake of her people, her country. She can't afford to be fighting to the death. And I agree, she feels much more like an active participant in Three Hopes, constantly striving to improve and work out a better future for her people. She really feels like a queen, and a good one too.

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Honestly I think a big problem for all the characters in three hopes is the weird relationship three hopes has with three hopes. It feels like they went out of the way to avoid repeating content from three houses. But at the same time not having certain things in the game hurts the characters as its basically expected you see their individual three houses story to fully understand. The church having a smaller role for example hurts the main lord a lot because it harder to see why each lord takes there stance towards them without the full three houses church backstory.  While I do think the church could have used moving away from alot.  I think they did that a little to hard in three hopes and their was a happier middle ground which would have improved the cast as a whole.

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2 minutes ago, ZanaLyrander said:

she needs to live for the sake of her people, her country

It perhaps goes without saying, but if her only goal were to live she wouldn't be fighting in a Fodlan war in the first place. It was always kinda implied that she's extracting concessions from whichever side she allies with (in both Houses and Hopes) but that's the type of thing that I'm very grateful to see made explicit.

22 minutes ago, vikingsfan92 said:

Honestly I think a big problem for all the characters in three hopes is the weird relationship three hopes has with three hopes. It feels like they went out of the way to avoid repeating content from three houses. But at the same time not having certain things in the game hurts the characters as its basically expected you see their individual three houses story to fully understand. The church having a smaller role for example hurts the main lord a lot because it harder to see why each lord takes there stance towards them without the full three houses church backstory.

On one level I agree with this, though I think the choice they made is valid. I think Three Hopes works if you're familiar with Three Houses, but would be awkward as heck if you aren't, because you lack some important context for the characters' ideologies.

 

Also adding another to characters who come off worse in this game, Ashe. On SB he does nothing but whine each month about how he's missed his chance to become a knight. He doesn't seem to care that Lonato, and his siblings, are all alive and well. I'm all for recruited characters having mixed feelings about joining sides (they should!), but this feels kinda like character assassination, given how important Ashe's family was to him in first game, regardless of route. May re-evaluate this if he gets some good stuff on AG, but for now it's pretty bad, like he's been reduced to a single character trait.

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1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

It perhaps goes without saying, but if her only goal were to live she wouldn't be fighting in a Fodlan war in the first place. It was always kinda implied that she's extracting concessions from whichever side she allies with (in both Houses and Hopes) but that's the type of thing that I'm very grateful to see made explicit.

On one level I agree with this, though I think the choice they made is valid. I think Three Hopes works if you're familiar with Three Houses, but would be awkward as heck if you aren't, because you lack some important context for the characters' ideologies.

 

Also adding another to characters who come off worse in this game, Ashe. On SB he does nothing but whine each month about how he's missed his chance to become a knight. He doesn't seem to care that Lonato, and his siblings, are all alive and well. I'm all for recruited characters having mixed feelings about joining sides (they should!), but this feels kinda like character assassination, given how important Ashe's family was to him in first game, regardless of route. May re-evaluate this if he gets some good stuff on AG, but for now it's pretty bad, like he's been reduced to a single character trait.

I agree with the overall choice too I just wanted slightly better execution and that's it. Tbf I do think they got it like 80 pr possibly even 90% right it's just when it does happen it happens on larger motivations which makes it more akward imo.

Agreed on Ashe it kind of feels like one of the other Blue Lions should have been recruitable instead with how much he is a downer about everything. At least Felix would be a better downer charcter as that's just how he is personality wise. Even though Ashe does have the Lonato thing going for him.

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