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New Heroes - Ymir & More


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1 hour ago, Sil/phire said:

NFU on C may help open up some new strategies i guess?

Unlike all other sources of the Null Follow-Up status effect, Infantry Null Follow-Up doesn't apply its effect to the unit with the skill, so even though it's now available in the C slot, it has to be someone else's C slot, and there aren't that many infantry that run a support-oriented C skill (as opposed to Time's Pulse, Menace, Smoke, or Joint Drive) that don't already have an exclusive one. Dancers, staff units, and Mediuth, I guess.

It's a really awkward skill.

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1 hour ago, Sil/phire said:

I can't really discribe how disappointed I am to see them run back so blazingly quick to the popular heroes now with this ascended hero type. So, now what, we gotta watch a handful of dozens of popular heroes/lords parade through one per month for years with only the hope that we could see someĀ  of the forgotten hundreds who may very well never get an alt lol. Ridiculous. Well done IS. Whatever, it's your business anyways.

Honestly I kind of felt things were going that way when they gave us Mareeta (so, basically from the start). Miranda or Ced would have been my preferred choice for that given their circumstances in Heroes already (Miranda not having a horse and Ced not having Forseti).

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I would've preferred Reinhardt -- *shot*

Like, if they absolutely had to make FE5's Ascended unit female, they could've gone with Olwen. She's still fairly popular and could use an alt with her canon Blessed Sword alt. It has about as much logic as Mareeta.

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56 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I would've preferred Reinhardt -- *shot*

Like, if they absolutely had to make FE5's Ascended unit female, they could've gone with Olwen. She's still fairly popular and could use an alt with her canon Blessed Sword alt. It has about as much logic as Mareeta.

Yeah, while I wouldn't have been as into that since she already has an alt, Blessed Sword Olwen should have been a thing. Really that's what her green alt should have been and the decision still confuses me. Thunderhead is such a random and generic tome to give her. It could have been given to any random mage the lacks a prf.Ā 

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I don't think that just because we got Ascended Celica means we're going to be getting mostly ascendants who already have legendaries. Like sure, they've shown that they will do it, and there will be more, but I think it's jumping the gun to say we're only going to see that from now on. I'd sooner guess Celica was more of an exception than a new rule.

Can't say why they chose Celica, though. I wanted to say maybe they thought no one else could carry an Echoes banner, but with Ymir already there surely someone like Mae, Lukas, or Conrad would work well enough. It's not like Mareeta is a super popular character.

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Mareeta at least as the excuse of being a character that could introduce Vital Astra to the game.

The developers are extremely stingy about handing out inheritable 500-SP Special skills (other than Galeforce), so the pool of characters that they'dĀ actually let get Vital Astra as a default skill is pretty small. For comparison:

  • Aether is only given out to Ike, Greil, Chrom, and Lucina.
  • Blue FlameĀ is only given out to Owain.
  • Ruptured Sky is only given out to Byleth.
  • Deadeye is currently only on Shinon and two fancy units representing the Sniper class.
  • Lethality is currently only on Volke, and it's unknown how Assassiny a character has to be to get the skill yet, as Ascended Joshua somehow didn't get it despite being a semi-fancy unit representing the Assassin class. Extremely stingy.
    • Legendary Sothe will likely get Lethality as a replacement forĀ Radiant Dawn's one-off Bane skill that he has, but he would also count as a fancy unit.

Of the games I'm familiar with, the only characters that really make sense to give Vital Astra to are Mareeta and Stefan. (The Isaac royals have their own custom Astra skills and are unlikely to ever get Vital Astra because of it.)

(Given that Joshua wasn't considered Assassiny enough to get Lethality, the only Sniper I can think of that is as Snipery as Shinon is Jeorge, and the only Assassin I can think of that is as Assassiny as Volke is Jaffar. Basically the first characters of each class.)

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8 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Personally, I'm not really too upset about Est appearing on this banner. Like Zeke, Palla, and Catria, Est was bound to show up on a Valentia banner and she deserves it as much as they do. And I actually like Est as a character. I'm also not really upset about Celica herself, I expected the main lords to all get Ascended variants eventually, I'm just a bit disappointed that I now have to wait a year or longer to see Mani Katti Lyn, provided Heroes even lasts that long. Celica being here just kinda slapped that reality to my face.

The thing that actually upsets me about this character lineup is Brigand Boss. Every Valentia character on this banner is someone found on Celica's side of the journey...and then there's Brigand Boss, who's fought by Alm and company. Brigand Boss doesn't make sense with Celica, Est, Atlas, or Kamui. He's there for the sake of the meme. The GHB should have been either Jedah or Grieth, Jedah is a major missing antagonist associated primarily with Celica and Grieth is the one who kidnapped Est. Plus, Grieth actually has, ya know, aĀ name.

2021's FE2 banner had a similar split, with Zeke, Tatiana, Luthier, and Fernand from Alm's route, and Palla from Celica's. I expect they'll do the same thing next time, having Jesse join Mycen and Rudolf on a mostly Alm banner to keep him from overlapping with Deen on the final Celica one.

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5 hours ago, Florete said:

I don't think that just because we got Ascended Celica means we're going to be getting mostly ascendants who already have legendaries. Like sure, they've shown that they will do it, and there will be more, but I think it's jumping the gun to say we're only going to see that from now on. I'd sooner guess Celica was more of an exception than a new rule.

Can't say why they chose Celica, though. I wanted to say maybe they thought no one else could carry an Echoes banner, but with Ymir already there surely someone like Mae, Lukas, or Conrad would work well enough. It's not like Mareeta is a super popular character.

Well not super popular, but she's also a Thracia, so there really was no superĀ popular characters. But Mareeta did have the advantage of already being in the game twice and thus introduced to the eyes of Heroes-only fans.

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Mareeta at least as the excuse of being a character that could introduce Vital Astra to the game.

The developers are extremely stingy about handing out inheritable 500-SP Special skills (other than Galeforce), so the pool of characters that they'dĀ actually let get Vital Astra as a default skill is pretty small. For comparison:

  • Aether is only given out to Ike, Greil, Chrom, and Lucina.
  • Blue FlameĀ is only given out to Owain.
  • Ruptured Sky is only given out to Byleth.
  • Deadeye is currently only on Shinon and two fancy units representing the Sniper class.
  • Lethality is currently only on Volke, and it's unknown how Assassiny a character has to be to get the skill yet, as Ascended Joshua somehow didn't get it despite being a semi-fancy unit representing the Assassin class. Extremely stingy.
    • Legendary Sothe will likely get Lethality as a replacement forĀ Radiant Dawn's one-off Bane skill that he has, but he would also count as a fancy unit.

Of the games I'm familiar with, the only characters that really make sense to give Vital Astra to are Mareeta and Stefan. (The Isaac royals have their own custom Astra skills and are unlikely to ever get Vital Astra because of it.)

(Given that Joshua wasn't considered Assassiny enough to get Lethality, the only Sniper I can think of that is as Snipery as Shinon is Jeorge, and the only Assassin I can think of that is as Assassiny as Volke is Jaffar. Basically the first characters of each class.)

They could have given Vital Astra to Galzus on the same banner as her. He's an absolute beast of a unit in Thracia, so it was pretty disappointing that he had basically nothing going for him in Heroes.

2 hours ago, Othin said:

2021's FE2 banner had a similar split, with Zeke, Tatiana, Luthier, and Fernand from Alm's route, and Palla from Celica's. I expect they'll do the same thing next time, having Jesse join Mycen and Rudolf on a mostly Alm banner to keep him from overlapping with Deen on the final Celica one.

So you're putting bets on Deen, Nomah and Jedah along with an OC for the final Shadows of Valentia banner (give or take some cipher)?

Edited by Jotari
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25 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well not super popular, but she's also a Thracia, so there really was no superĀ popular characters. But Mareeta did have the advantage of already being in the game twice and thus introduced to the eyes of Heroes-only fans.

That is a good point. None of Thracia's legendary candidates are close to Celica's popularity to begin with, so the bar was already lower. Florina would be a better example, being in competition with the ever-popular Lyn, who even arguably has an excuse for a new alt to bring in the Mani Katti.

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21 minutes ago, Jotari said:

They could have given Vital Astra to Galzus on the same banner as her. He's an absolute beast of a unit in Thracia, so it was pretty disappointing that he had basically nothing going for him in Heroes.

Joshua didn't get Lethality despite being an Ascended Hero and being in his actual Assassin promoted class. Galzus never stood a chance.

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People do realize that some of the best units in the game are dudes right? Seems like people just cherry pick the best female units and outright ignore the best male units and pretend they do not exist. And if we are talking about free units, male units overwhelmingly dominateĀ female units. Even as fodder, male units are no slouch either.

The top three Galeforcers are Leif: Destined Scions, Corrin: Nightfall Ninja Act, and Lyn: Ninja-Friend Duo. If a player does not give a shit about PvP and only focuses on PvE, then sure, all three feel the same. But if a player takes them for a spin in Aether Raids, it becomes pretty apparent very quickly that the best Galeforcer really is not the girls. And for cheap Galeforcers, the girls do not offer any sort of competition at all to Eliwood and Naesala.

For Fireweepers, males are just plainĀ better. If we look at armor Firesweepers, Raphael: Muscle Monger got higher Atk/Spd than Faye: Drawn Heartstring. For infantry, Shinon has better Atk/Spd than Louise. And for a cheap ranged Sweeper, there is Gharnef now, and sort of Walhart.

For wallbreakers, I agree that Nanna: Beloved Princess is probably the best wallbreaker right now since she ignores defensive Specials and percentage damage reduction, but Dimitri: Sky-Blue Lion is no joke eitherĀ who can quad attack with true damage from Atrocity, and there is Roy: Blazing Bachelors whoĀ can turn his axe into a Blade tome and triggerĀ his Special on time.

For super tanks, if all you can think about is Mareeta: Astra Awakened and Eirika: Twin Refulgence, then you clearly have not been paying attention to Ike: Close-Knit Siblings, who is just plain better than both with damage reduction and Null Follow-UpĀ built into his Weapon. And for a slightly less premium unit, the gold standard upon all super tanks are measured against,Ā Ike: Brave Mercenary is still there and still relevant, and if you want a blue version, there is Dimitri: Savior King.Ā Similarly for cheap super tanks, there is no girl that can top Yen'fay.

As for Save tanks, there are a bit more girls than boys, but it is not like they completely dominate the boys. And similarly again for cheap Save tanks, Arden takes the spot with no female competition.

Spoiler

Male:
Duma
Ephraim: Sparkling Galantly
Gustav: Majestic Love
Hector: Brave Warrior
Hector: Marquess of Ostia
Surtr: Pirate of Red Sky

Female:
Edelgard: Adrestian Emperor
Edelgard: Sun Empresses
Felicia: Off the Menu
Fjorm: Ice Ascendent
Idunn
Idunn: Divine Demon
Lucina: Future Witness
Myrrh: Spooky Monster

In terms of premium support units, this is the only area where female units completelyĀ dominate males. Elmine is simply the best giving Drive damage reduction, with Flayn being second, and Nifl and Nifl: Tropical Ice God tied being third. There is Lucina: Brave Princess,Ā Velouria Renewed Wolfpup, and Hilda: Deer's Two Piece for Special charge increase. Then there are my favorite Dancers/Singers with basically almost all the relevant ones being female, and the onlyĀ male that is semi relevantĀ being Rafiel: Blessed Wings. The only other relevant male support unit would be Kaden. As for cheap support units, Aversa is the only relevant female that comes to mind, while we got a lot more male options: M!Corrin for Drive;Ā Arvis, Saias, Riev, and WalhartĀ for debuffs; Mordecai for Smiting.

And for relatively cheap but relevantĀ fodder,Ā those would Serpentine Staff, Coral Saber, Ninja Katana, and Ninja Naginata, and they are all carried by dudes.

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58 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Joshua didn't get Lethality despite being an Ascended Hero and being in his actual Assassin promoted class. Galzus never stood a chance.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Maybe I wasn't clear. I didn't mean Galzus should have gotten it alongside side Mareeta, I meant in the scenario where Ascended Mareeta didn't exist the choice went to someone like Ced or Reinhardt then Galzus could have introduced the skill to the game on the same banner. Course that didn't happen because they figured Mareeta was the best choice for an Ascended Hero for the reasons I stated above (already being familiar to Heroes players and being prime waifu material).

30 minutes ago, XRay said:

And if we are talking about free units, male units overwhelmingly dominateĀ female units.Ā 

Ā 

Well yeah, of course. Because they don't get as much money from free units.

Edited by Jotari
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1 minute ago, Jotari said:

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Maybe I wasn't clear. I didn't mean Galzus should have gotten it alongside side Mareeta, I meant in the scenario where Ascended Mareeta didn't exist the choice went to someone like Ced or Reinhardt then Galzus could have introduced the skill to the game on the same banner. Course that didn't happen because they figured Mareeta was the best choice for an Ascended Hero for the reasons I stated above (already being familiar to Heroes players and being prime waifu material).

What I'm getting at is that if Ascended Mareeta weren't on the banner, Vital Astra flat out wouldn't exist because Galzus still wouldn't have gotten it.

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21 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

What I'm getting at is that if Ascended Mareeta weren't on the banner, Vital Astra flat out wouldn't exist because Galzus still wouldn't have gotten it.

But your example was Lethality, which was introduced into the game via a male unit on a banner where he wasn't the Ascended. I agree that if Mareeta wasn't the Ascended Unit there we wouldn't have gotten Vital Astra Galzus, but that's more so because we probably wouldn't have got Galzus at all if the Ascended had been someone other than Mareeta. It would have been a character with some connection to the hypothetical ascended unit. But if Vital Astra came first and Mareeta came second and they just wanted to put it into the game at that time then Galzus would have worked.

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2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

But your example was Lethality, which was introduced into the game via a male unit on a banner where he wasn't the Ascended.

Because Volke is associated with Lethality even more so than Mareeta is associated with Astra.

Being an Ascended Hero isn't why Mareeta got Vital Astra. Being a female character isn't why Mareeta got Vital Astra. Being Mareeta is why Mareeta got Vital Astra. (Vital Astra's name in Japanese also appears to be a reference to Mareeta and Shanam's conversation in ThraciaĀ where Mareeta learns Astra.)

Volke was the series' second canon Assassin, was the first Assassin after the reintroduction of the skill system made Lethality into a proper skill and gave it its current name, and even had Assassin as his exclusive class in both of his games (Thieves inĀ Path of RadianceĀ were unable to promote at all, and Thieves inĀ Radiant DawnĀ promoted into the weaker Whisper class). Jaffar is the only character in the series that is more deserving of having Lethality, but he was released too early to receive it. Of the pre-DS games, the only characters I can see getting Lethality are Jaffar, Volke, and Radiant DawnĀ Sothe. If they're playing favorites, they might give it to Heather, and I will be happy to see it get better distribution, but I don't think she deserves it if Ascended Joshua didn't get it.

Similarly, Shinon is still the only character in the game that currently comes with Deadeye (excluding Duo, Harmonized, Legendary, and Mythic Heroes), as he was the series' first Sniper after the skill was first introduced inĀ Path of RadianceĀ and the only canon Sniper from the game. No character in the series has a greater claim to Deadeye than Shinon does, but I'm actually not sure who else they'd be willing to give Deadeye to. I can see Jeorge, Briggid, and Faval getting it and maybe also Rolf and Leonardo.

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On 7/18/2022 at 5:14 AM, Ice Dragon said:

Stout Axe is "堅å›ŗ恮ꖧ" (kengo no ono), "Solid Axe".

Vulture Axe is "ē¦æé·¹ć®ę–§" (hagetaka no ono), "Vulture Axe". Undomesticated animals typically have their names written out phonetically in kana rather than in kanji (often because the kanji are either complicated or obscure), butĀ HeroesĀ uses the kanji name, likely to save space.

Bruno's epithet, "Prince Beset", is "ꆑ恋悌恗ēš‡å­" (tsukareshiĀ Åji), "Possessed Imperial Prince". Compare with Veronica: Princess Beset's epithet, "ꆑ恋悌恗ēš‡å„³" (tsukareshiĀ Åjo), "Possessed Imperial Princess".

Veiled Valaskjalf is "å¹½ęš—ćƒ“ćƒ©ć‚¹ć‚­ćƒ£ćƒ«ćƒ•" (yÅ«an vurasukyarufu), "Gloom Valaskjalf" or "Seclusion Valaskjalf".

Added translation notes for Atlas's and Brigand Boss's weapons and possessed Bruno and his weapon from the story map.

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5 hours ago, Jotari said:

So you're putting bets on Deen, Nomah and Jedah along with an OC for the final Shadows of Valentia banner (give or take some cipher)?

Deen, Nomah, Jedah as the GHB, some marketable villain (probably Nuibaba or Hestia), and an Ascended (maybe Catria). I don't expect Cipher to be involved with conventional Echoes banners. It may or may not have an OC as the sixth unit, I don't think it'd change much either way.

Edited by Othin
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7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Because Volke is associated with Lethality even more so than Mareeta is associated with Astra.

Being an Ascended Hero isn't why Mareeta got Vital Astra. Being a female character isn't why Mareeta got Vital Astra. Being Mareeta is why Mareeta got Vital Astra. (Vital Astra's name in Japanese also appears to be a reference to Mareeta and Shanam's conversation in ThraciaĀ where Mareeta learns Astra.)

Volke was the series' second canon Assassin, was the first Assassin after the reintroduction of the skill system made Lethality into a proper skill and gave it its current name, and even had Assassin as his exclusive class in both of his games (Thieves inĀ Path of RadianceĀ were unable to promote at all, and Thieves inĀ Radiant DawnĀ promoted into the weaker Whisper class). Jaffar is the only character in the series that is more deserving of having Lethality, but he was released too early to receive it. Of the pre-DS games, the only characters I can see getting Lethality are Jaffar, Volke, and Radiant DawnĀ Sothe. If they're playing favorites, they might give it to Heather, and I will be happy to see it get better distribution, but I don't think she deserves it if Ascended Joshua didn't get it.

Similarly, Shinon is still the only character in the game that currently comes with Deadeye (excluding Duo, Harmonized, Legendary, and Mythic Heroes), as he was the series' first Sniper after the skill was first introduced inĀ Path of RadianceĀ and the only canon Sniper from the game. No character in the series has a greater claim to Deadeye than Shinon does, but I'm actually not sure who else they'd be willing to give Deadeye to. I can see Jeorge, Briggid, and Faval getting it and maybe also Rolf and Leonardo.

The difference there is that lethality is a skill actually in the series, whereas Vital Astra is entirely made up by Heroes. It's the name Astra tossed onto a damage reduction skill. If they said "we want a skill that reduces damage based as a percentage, but also deals offensive damage based on speed"Ā then there's plenty of units who could have fit the glove. An Astra wielder works slightly better given they already tied Regnal Astra to speed (despite it not actually working that way in the series and Regnal Astra also being a made up skill for Heroes), but in that regard Galzus also is of the same bloodline as Mareeta. And everyone they've introduced from Odo's bloodline has come with an Astra skill except him (though Scatach also got the ordinary old Astra skill and didn't introduce a special variation, big surprise there).

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5 hours ago, Jotari said:

The difference there is that lethality is a skill actually in the series, whereas Vital Astra is entirely made up by Heroes. It's the name Astra tossed onto a damage reduction skill. If they said "we want a skill that reduces damage based as a percentage, but also deals offensive damage based on speed"Ā then there's plenty of units who could have fit the glove. An Astra wielder works slightly better given they already tied Regnal Astra to speed (despite it not actually working that way in the series and Regnal Astra also being a made up skill for Heroes), but in that regard Galzus also is of the same bloodline as Mareeta. And everyone they've introduced from Odo's bloodline has come with an Astra skill except him (though Scatach also got the ordinary old Astra skill and didn't introduce a special variation, big surprise there).

Lethality is just the name Lethality tossed onto a stronger version of Luna that is exclusive to daggers (the original skill kills the opponent instantly), and Deadeye is just the name Deadeye tossed onto a stronger version of Glimmer that is exclusive to bows (the original skill puts the opponent to sleep and passively increases accuracy with no boost to damage). Neither of them have any more resemblance to their original skills than Vital Astra has to the original Astra.

At the same time, Vital Astra is a "prefixed" Astra. It's as much Astra as Dracofalchion is Falchion or Virtuous Naga is Naga. If you're going to argue that Vital Astra is just some arbitrary skill that they gave the name Astra to, then you're going to have to do the same for all of the other prefixed weapons that don't have the exact same name as their original weapon.

And finally, Vital Astra has every right to be a damage reduction skill. Vital Astra represents the stat spread archetype of the Swordmaster class. As a class with high Spd, the damage from Vital Astra is based off of Spd, and the skill grants Dodge to reference the fact that Spd is tied to evasion in the main series. Like Lethality and Deadeye, Vital Astra is not a one-to-one copy of the original skill, but is based on the general intent of the original skill (or in Vital Astra's case, the unit class the skill is associated with).

Ā 

Also, it's probably no coincidence that the two Jugdral Astra users that didn't get custom versions of Astra are the two Jugdral Astra users that aren't Swordmasters.

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16 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Also, it's probably no coincidence that the two Jugdral Astra users that didn't get custom versions of Astra are the two Jugdral Astra users that aren't Swordmasters.

Personally I think the fact that Galzus and Scathach are male was the bigger issue rather than them not being swordmasters

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11 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Personally I think the fact that Galzus and Scathach are male was the bigger issue rather than them not being swordmasters

I mean, those don't have to be mutually exclusive.

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Lethality is just the name Lethality tossed onto a stronger version of Luna that is exclusive to daggers (the original skill kills the opponent instantly), and Deadeye is just the name Deadeye tossed onto a stronger version of Glimmer that is exclusive to bows (the original skill puts the opponent to sleep and passively increases accuracy with no boost to damage). Neither of them have any more resemblance to their original skills than Vital Astra has to the original Astra.

At the same time, Vital Astra is a "prefixed" Astra. It's as much Astra as Dracofalchion is Falchion or Virtuous Naga is Naga. If you're going to argue that Vital Astra is just some arbitrary skill that they gave the name Astra to, then you're going to have to do the same for all of the other prefixed weapons that don't have the exact same name as their original weapon.

And finally, Vital Astra has every right to be a damage reduction skill. Vital Astra represents the stat spread archetype of the Swordmaster class. As a class with high Spd, the damage from Vital Astra is based off of Spd, and the skill grants Dodge to reference the fact that Spd is tied to evasion in the main series. Like Lethality and Deadeye, Vital Astra is not a one-to-one copy of the original skill, but is based on the general intent of the original skill (or in Vital Astra's case, the unit class the skill is associated with).

Ā 

Also, it's probably no coincidence that the two Jugdral Astra users that didn't get custom versions of Astra are the two Jugdral Astra users that aren't Swordmasters.

Well yes, Lethality is a stronger version of Luna that is exclusive to daggers. And that's sort of my point. There is nothing about Galzus (except that Swordmaster thing, that's a pretty good point, and in fact I actually would have liked him to have been Axe Infantry) that is different to Volke, other than the expectation that a skill of some sort called Lethality should be put in the game, but we were arguing from a position that Vital Astra was to be put in the game, as you also brought up Stefan as the only likely candidates to get it (unless your just talking about future users of the skill, to which I point out stuff like those Breath skills that have been in the game for years with only one wielder, so there's no obligation at all to put inheritable skills on more than one unit, but even then I don't think you are talking about potential future users as you began the whole thing by saying Mareeta was a good choice because she brought Regnal Astra to the game, plus the whole it being named after her). Galzus could have been given a skill like Vital Astra. It would fit him lorewise and he's a powerful enough unit to justify getting a powerful skill. If Mareeta did not exist then the skill very much could have still done so, as it slotted very well into the damage avoiding metagame that was at it's height at the time. no one would have balked if Galzus had been given such a skill (in fact if it were named after Thracia's pursuit critical coefficent concept it would even make more sense as a skill, as it's a special designed to be a powerful counter attack).

TL;DR, you said Mareeta had the excuse of bringing Regnal Astra into the game, but I think that Regnal Astra could have been put in the game without any need for an excuse, and specifically even on the same banner.

Edited by Jotari
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16 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well yeah, of course. Because they don't get as much money from free units.

They put some pretty good stuff on free units too. Yen'fay might be cheap, but he is arguably just as good as Ike: Brave Mercenary. Riev is pretty decent too as a Saboteur who also doubles as a Blazing nuke. There is also Walhart and Gharnef now who can Sweep, so players literally have no excuse at this point about not having the tools to deal with problematic units. And these characters are not even main characters.

I agree thatĀ female characters and popular characters tend to get better treatment, but people act like male characters and less popular characters get nothing decent. And being popular does not even guarantee that you will not get shit treatment.Ā Lyn: Brave Lady's Refine was absolute bottom of the barrelĀ crap, and she is the only Lyn that is even remotelyĀ relevantĀ until Lyn: Ninja-Friend Duo came along.Ā I do not remember Camilla ever being relevant. While Ymir is decent, she is hardly top tier, and it makes absolutely zero sense to run her forĀ Drive Miracle when you can have Drive damage reduction from Flayn or Elimine.

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2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Gronnblade Spring Camilla says hi from 2017.

Alright, she was relevant for a very short while. Once Corrin: Novice Vacationer and Nowi: Eternal Witch came out in late 2017, you rather run those two with one or two Dancers/Singers, and if Camilla: Spring Princess was there, she was relegated to being more of a buff bot.

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