Are Ashnard's Means of Seizing Power Consistent with his Ambitions?

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

The title is needlessly verbose, in order to avoid spoiling any passers-by on the details of a game from a decade and a half ago, but in case it wasn't obvious...

The Blood Pact. I'm talking about the Blood Pact. The story of Radiant Dawn reveals that Ashnard used a blood pact, in order to kill all those who stood between him and the throne. The exception was the pact's signer, the then-current king. Once he became second in the line of succession, Ashnard committed regicide, and slew the last remaining obstacle to his position of power.

At first, this may seem contrary to Ashnard's ways. Why would a man all about strength, who desired to prove himself on the field of battle, resort to such underhanded means to achieve power? And yet, Ashnard had no compunctions about holding an infant (his own son!) hostage in order to bend one of Goldoa's mighty Black Dragons to his command. Not only that, but he admitted to his foremost general that he had slain the prior king! Truly, he was a ruthless blackheart. Certainly, this was a man willing to use underhanded means, the Blood Pact chief among them.

But... does it really make sense? A new problem emerges - the randomness of it all. A blood pact kills at random. Rich, poor, weak, strong, noble, or commoner - every person faces an equal chance of being struck by the curse. Ashnard believes in strength above all else, yet he invites a curse that will kill strong people - whether they are strong of body or of will - while sparing many who are "weak" in the same regards. Had he invited a natural calamity - say, a flood, or a disease, or a horde of wild laguz - there is at least the argument that the people more ruthless in fighting back, and acquiring necessary resources, would survive the disaster. But it is not so for the blood pact.

And this is before confronting the painful fact - Ashnard himself could have died from the blood pact. The previous king was immune, as a signer of the pact, as was the "wise man" with whom he signed it... but we have no reason to believe that Ashnard, who is never described as signatory to the pact, would have been immune to its effect. He gambled his life on sheer dumb luck. "But wait," you might interject, "Ashnard had no objection to being killed! He specifically invited it in the Endgame of Path of Radiance!" That is true - I do not assert that Ashnard was against being killed by someone stronger than he was. But the blood pact, and the disaster that derived from it, was nothing of the sort. Had he died from it, it wouldn't have been due to some "weakness" that an enemy exploited, or some "failure" that meant he was no longer worth living. He could have been the strongest person in all of Tellius, both in body and in mind, and the blood pact would not have spared him. Thus extinguishing from the continent his dream - that it would be ruled by strength, above all else.

Anyway, thanks for reading this. This is something I've been rolling around in my head for a little while now, and wanted to put to parchment (metaphorically, of course). Is my thesis sound, or are there any loopholes that you could exploit to get out of it? I'd be keen to hear your thoughts on it!

[AnonymousSpeed]

[Acacia Sgt]

Considering we know that Blood Pacts can be worded differently (Daein Blood Pact vs Kilvas Blood Pact), I wouldn't be surprised if Ashnard had the old man include a clause where he would be immune as well.

At the end of the day, they're just legal contracts with magic behind them, so it's all in their wording.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

14 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Considering we know that Blood Pacts can be worded differently (Daein Blood Pact vs Kilvas Blood Pact), I wouldn't be surprised if Ashnard had the old man include a clause where he would be immune as well.

At the end of the day, they're just legal contracts with magic behind them, so it's all in their wording.

It's possible. There's more we don't know than know about blood pacts. What's involved in making the pact? How does one activate it? Can the pact be destroyed while both its signers are still alive?

At a certain level, I wonder why the "mystery man" character exists. Why couldn't Ashnard just trick the King into signing it with himself? That he didn't suggests (but does not prove) that Ashnard was either unable to produce, or to activate, a blood pact in his own right.

Anyway, it still boils down to the problem that the blood pact would kill many strong people, while sparing many weak ones. In having it activated, Ashnard may have killed someone stronger of mind and body (and therefore, more fit to rule) than he. Someone whose only fault may have been ignorance of the existence of blood pacts. It seems hypocritical of Ashnard... but perhaps that's the point of it all.

[Acacia Sgt]

9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

It's possible. There's more we don't know than know about blood pacts. What's involved in making the pact? How does one activate it? Can the pact be destroyed while both its signers are still alive?

At a certain level, I wonder why the "mystery man" character exists. Why couldn't Ashnard just trick the King into signing it with himself? That he didn't suggests (but does not prove) that Ashnard was either unable to produce, or to activate, a blood pact in his own right.

Anyway, it still boils down to the problem that the blood pact would kill many strong people, while sparing many weak ones. In having it activated, Ashnard may have killed someone stronger of mind and body (and therefore, more fit to rule) than he. Someone whose only fault may have been ignorance of the existence of blood pacts. It seems hypocritical of Ashnard... but perhaps that's the point of it all.

Well, we know at least it has to be signed with blood, hence the Blood Pact name.

As it is, Ashnard did all that as a way to secure the throne himself, so... yes, I doubt he'd care how much colateral he caused. Or, again, the pact was worded in such a way to avoid that scenario.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, we know at least it has to be signed with blood, hence the Blood Pact name.

As it is, Ashnard did all that as a way to secure the throne himself, so... yes, I doubt he'd care how much colateral he caused. Or, again, the pact was worded in such a way to avoid that scenario.

I guess it depends on what we view as Ashnard's honest motivations. Does he truly wish for a world where the weak falter and die, while the strong triumph and flourish? If so, the use of a mechanism that kills indiscriminately comes across as contrary to that ethos. But if this assertion is just an ad hoc justification for his own raw ambitions for personal achievement, then it makes some sense. His lust for power pushed him to drastic means, regardless of the impact it might have exerted upon the social fabric.

[Use the Falchion]

9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I guess it depends on what we view as Ashnard's honest motivations. Does he truly wish for a world where the weak falter and die, while the strong triumph and flourish? If so, the use of a mechanism that kills indiscriminately comes across as contrary to that ethos. But if this assertion is just an ad hoc justification for his own raw ambitions for personal achievement, then it makes some sense. His lust for power pushed him to drastic means, regardless of the impact it might have exerted upon the social fabric.

My thoughts exactly. That's one of the (many) reasons I don't like Radiant Dawn. I felt like Ashnard's M.O. for getting power and his justification for it were consistent with what he said. He walked the talk. When the Blood Pact was introduced, it suddenly didn't line up with his previous motivation. It's canon to the story now and makes sense if power for the sake of power was the goal, but it's the far less interesting option IMO, and one that ruins the character, not enhances. 

[Jotari]

On 8/12/2022 at 1:04 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

At a certain level, I wonder why the "mystery man" character exists. Why couldn't Ashnard just trick the King into signing it with himself? That he didn't suggests (but does not prove) that Ashnard was either unable to produce, or to activate, a blood pact in his own right.

The mystery man character obviously exists because he's Sephiran. And it might make a bit more sense for Ashnard's motivations if we assume it's more Sephiran's plan than Ashnard's. I'm not sure how much of the blood pact was conceived when Path of Radiance was released, but the plague is mentioned in PoR in addition to Ashnard killing his family, curiously it also mentions the plague striking Begnion too and that the Serenes Massacre somehow being a result of plague. It might be that the original plan was that there was a genuine plague and Ashnard took advantage of it to murder his family and blame their deaths on the plague, then when they needed Ike and Micaiah to fight they invented the blood pact and retroactively made it part of Ashnard's story to establish the new mechanic.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

12 hours ago, Jotari said:

The mystery man character obviously exists because he's Sephiran. And it might make a bit more sense for Ashnard's motivations if we assume it's more Sephiran's plan than Ashnard's. I'm not sure how much of the blood pact was conceived when Path of Radiance was released, but the plague is mentioned in PoR in addition to Ashnard killing his family, curiously it also mentions the plague striking Begnion too and that the Serenes Massacre somehow being a result of plague. It might be that the original plan was that there was a genuine plague and Ashnard took advantage of it to murder his family and blame their deaths on the plague, then when they needed Ike and Micaiah to fight they invented the blood pact and retroactively made it part of Ashnard's story to establish the new mechanic.

Interesting - the plague also occurred in Begnion, and it preceded the Serenes Massacre? Because my understanding is, Ashnard's seizure of power happened after the Massacre. If we're assuming that Sephiran is the mystery man, then it must have. This would deconfirm the notion that "plague = blood pact", although as you said, it's possible that the blood pact happened amidst the plague. Hell, they could've gone with "the King signed the blood pact, believing it would save his nation from the plague afflicting them".

[Etrurian emperor]

On 8/11/2022 at 3:10 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

And this is before confronting the painful fact - Ashnard himself could have died from the blood pact.

That probably just exites Ashnard. ''I'll unleash a bloodpact plague and if I happen to die from it then I wasn't worthy of the throne to begin with!''

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Interesting - the plague also occurred in Begnion, and it preceded the Serenes Massacre? Because my understanding is, Ashnard's seizure of power happened after the Massacre. If we're assuming that Sephiran is the mystery man, then it must have. This would deconfirm the notion that "plague = blood pact", although as you said, it's possible that the blood pact happened amidst the plague. Hell, they could've gone with "the King signed the blood pact, believing it would save his nation from the plague afflicting them".

I'm on mobile now so I can't quote the exact text without the format going bonkers, but yes. Thanith says in Chapter 18 it struck two years before Ashnard's coronation and wipes out the population of Serenes, which coincides with the same year as the Serenes massacre. Not sure if it was before or after though. Maybe most of the herons were killed by plague and the senate made up the story about them killing the apostle in revenge or something.