Sil/phire Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 On 8/15/2022 at 10:20 PM, ARMADS!!! said: It it's probably my fault since I read way too many reddit threads about unit concepts for these characters while waiting for the trailer on the past few days so my hopes were way higher than they should be The thing to understand is that, from my pov at least, this is IS's CYL, not yours/ours. There's like two halves to this, one for the players and one for IS. on the one hand, we chose who want this time. but that's it, that's as far as our opinions matter, which is pretty much nothing at all. It's like, the absolute, bare-minimum effort at trying to involve the community and showing them some courtesy. The other half is IS going to take the results and just making up 4 new OP units with the visual designs of the characters we give them, and it's entirely up to them to do whatever THEY want with them, not what WE want. We set ourselves up for disappointment by thinking that they will even consider a fraction of our (so far proven to be wild) expectations. It's the expectations that ruins this banner for most people, at least as far as design. When i first heard about this banners i had a grand image of IS some how doing this in the completely opposite way of how they are doing them - that they would actually take this opportunity to explore some amazing concepts for the characters that they would otherwise not get a chance to. you know, what we kinda wish they actually did. i'm now even of the impression that they prefer to ignore the fan base, perhaps at least those outside japan, as much as they can, since they have their vision for the game and our opinion doesn't factor in. i have gotten over having any expectations from IS now, it's their game in the end, and we're just here for the ride. 23 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: get that this was probably meant to be hyperbolic, but that doesn't change the fact that this statement ticks me off as an artist myself. my bad, my first thoughts about anything this company does nowadays are always negative lol. I do respect the amazing work and effort the artists made. As i did mention, i do like her design as is and the artist took that concept and made it a great piece on its own right. Even Seliph's art looks smooth and regal, as much as it's a copy of sigurds. 22 hours ago, DefyingFates said: Regardless of the outfits themselves, I hope everyone can agree that the art is absolutely stellar on all five Heroes we saw today. Agreed. Still sad for Marianne in last CYL, even though i like that design too. 18 hours ago, Othin said: Something about his face/hair feels off, I'm not exactly sure what. I think he gained some pounds? and went to the gym after? it's a wider jawbone i think, and he looks more compact???? it's hard to explain. if you told me it was his twin i would totally believe it. still looks fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefyingFates Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Spoiler Superboons and Superbanes: chrom: 41-/42+/42+/37-/17- -> 179 seliph: 40-/43-/41+/37+/18- -> 179 tiki: 40-/43-/27-/37/41+ -> 188 fbyleth: 39-/41+/43-/26-/24 -> 173 jeralt: 41-/43+/26-/39+/30 -> 179 I don't know if they need to be censored since the banner goes live today, but that's their stats and superboons/ banes. It's crazy that the only one who'd be able to even use a Duel Skill is Byleth, and even then she only goes up by one bin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsfan92 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) Decided to go for a free pull on Tiki. I just put her against abyssal Mythic Battle Naga and she trivialize it with distant counter dragon seal and her base kit in one turn. I think they probably did this tempest trial seal just for her tbh. So she got me a free mythic hero battle on Lunatic that I didn't try before that's kinda neat. But the main point is I feel like the seal was designed with Tiki's release in mind. Edited August 17, 2022 by vikingsfan92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanoid Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Huh, just had a Mandela effect moment because I was absolutely sure that Sigurd's tunic was blue and that people saying Seliph's head was simply pasted onto Sigurd's body were slightly exaggerating for effect. Still looks fine though. Not going to agree that it's stellar necessarily, but it's in line with the usual CYL stuff. Seliph and Jeralt look very crisp, Byleth is awful-taste-but-great-execution, Tiki and Chrom aren't my cup of tea but stack up well enough compared to your average New Heroes banner. P.S. I still don't believe I've encountered a CYL Marianne in the wild, excluding her Story Map appearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMADS!!! Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Hey, does anyone know if there's a summoning odds post around already for the cyl banner? I need to check it out before using my free pick but I didn't find any yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneStar Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 11 hours ago, Sil/phire said: i'm now even of the impression that they prefer to ignore the fan base, perhaps at least those outside japan, as much as they can, since they have their vision for the game and our opinion doesn't factor in. i have gotten over having any expectations from IS now, it's their game in the end, and we're just here for the ride. Playing a bit of devil's advocate, do people use the in game feedback to provide ideas? This is just an example, but how's IS the company suppose to know "what the fans want"? I'm seeing people say that they aren't listening, but where are they suppose to listen? Are people expecting a company that's only shown one way communication on one social media website to be savvy on the wants of everyone of their customers? A Japanese company at that. Granted people vehemently sending feedback expecting something and not getting it is an extra layer of salt and disappointment, but at least they'd do something that matters. My opinion on the Tiki situation is that it's clear that some units from each game gets a majority of the alts. For Marth's games those characters are obviously Marth, Caeda, and Tiki. Then with Awakening it's Chrom, Lucina, and the Robins. I'm not arguing against adult Tiki alts, but if they're doing the gacha thing and trying to sell the most popular characters and also have decent representation of the games then that version of Tiki was going to get shafted. 8 hours ago, Humanoid said: P.S. I still don't believe I've encountered a CYL Marianne in the wild, excluding her Story Map appearances. She's good for Galeforce strategies to clear enemies in one go. Most of the player base doesn't engage with that playstyle though. I use her and some other units to cheese basically every abyssal map. And she's especially good in AR Chaos where you can only bring one dancer, so having a pseudo dancer is great. I mentioned it before but my biggest issue is not being able to run NFU and WoM at the same time, but now we have Infantry Speed Tactic, and I got an off focus Ascended Celica earlier, so maybe things will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefyingFates Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 I know I'm jumping the gun here, but what are everyone's early thoughts on the new inheritable skills that have been added with these Heroes? Any of them "must haves" for fodder like Steady Breath was back in the day? Or are any skills just "really, really good"? I imagine Spd Precept could be fun on Vantage teams and Atk/ Res Finish could be useful for tanks, but am drawing a blank for the others. Clash could be good on L!Sigurd (and B!Alm/ Yuri), I guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur97 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, Sil/phire said: The thing to understand is that, from my pov at least, this is IS's CYL, not yours/ours. There's like two halves to this, one for the players and one for IS. on the one hand, we chose who want this time. but that's it, that's as far as our opinions matter, which is pretty much nothing at all. It's like, the absolute, bare-minimum effort at trying to involve the community and showing them some courtesy. The other half is IS going to take the results and just making up 4 new OP units with the visual designs of the characters we give them, and it's entirely up to them to do whatever THEY want with them, not what WE want. We set ourselves up for disappointment by thinking that they will even consider a fraction of our (so far proven to be wild) expectations. It's the expectations that ruins this banner for most people, at least as far as design. When i first heard about this banners i had a grand image of IS some how doing this in the completely opposite way of how they are doing them - that they would actually take this opportunity to explore some amazing concepts for the characters that they would otherwise not get a chance to. you know, what we kinda wish they actually did. i'm now even of the impression that they prefer to ignore the fan base, perhaps at least those outside japan, as much as they can, since they have their vision for the game and our opinion doesn't factor in. i have gotten over having any expectations from IS now, it's their game in the end, and we're just here for the ride. Problem with that is this isn't some student art project, it's a product. Which means to some extent fan wishes should be at least considered. They essentially looked at the results and went yes, but no. Like, why hold the poll at all if you're going to skirt it and still represent the version that didn't win? In all technicality, yes, it's adult Tiki, but it looks so much like young Tiki, it's very reasonable for those people to feel shafted. Especially as this was a pushback against young Tiki. And, yes, yes, Japan views Tiki differently, but that's also ignoring or ignorant of why adult Tiki was pushed to the top anyway. Edited August 17, 2022 by Arthur97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsfan92 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 I hope they get back to Brave heroes resplednents and they are more adventurous with the resplendent designs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur97 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Going off Ike, that seems unlikely. He's essentially a slightly more steam punk version of his other one. Even if they do it'll be a long time before they get here or even 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMADS!!! Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Does the free pick "banner" stays around for how much time? I mean, does it ends at the same time as the CYL banner? I'm asking because I don't know if I'll use the free pick today (already summoned 25 times and got no one) and I don't want it to i don't know... disappear? I always use the free pick on the first day so i don't know how long it would stay around if I didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said: Does the free pick "banner" stays around for how much time? I mean, does it ends at the same time as the CYL banner? I'm asking because I don't know if I'll use the free pick today (already summoned 25 times and got no one) and I don't want it to i don't know... disappear? I always use the free pick on the first day so i don't know how long it would stay around if I didn't. It stays for two years. If you made a new account right now you'd even be able to pick from CYL4 (Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude, Lysithea) for another week or so. Edited August 17, 2022 by Florete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMADS!!! Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Florete said: It stays for two years. If you made a new account right now you'd even be able to pick from CYL4 (Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude, Lysithea) for another week or so. WHAT, REALLY?!!! Thats kinda insane. I thought that it'd last AT MOST until the end of the CYL banner. I remember that last year, around the CYL banner time, they were offering a free hero from the CYL 3 to who downloaded the game at that time, but I thought that it was some kind of special deal or whatever, not that it was normal to have it last for 2 years like that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diovani Bressan Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 6 hours ago, DefyingFates said: I know I'm jumping the gun here, but what are everyone's early thoughts on the new inheritable skills that have been added with these Heroes? Any of them "must haves" for fodder like Steady Breath was back in the day? Or are any skills just "really, really good"? I imagine Spd Precept could be fun on Vantage teams and Atk/ Res Finish could be useful for tanks, but am drawing a blank for the others. Clash could be good on L!Sigurd (and B!Alm/ Yuri), I guess? Clash is melee exclusive except armor, so Yuri can't use it (which I am glad). You need to remember to move or bait a foe that moves to attack, or else it will not work. But it's a way to get a good boost to stats. I think Ideal/Catch are easier to use, but this one is not bad. Preempt is good but I dont see that many good users for it. It's ranged exclusive, and you need to have more spd than foe. It's good on units that have insta specials, like Brave Byleth and Legendary Male Byleth, but I dont remember who else... Maybe a fast Blade tome unit? Ashera could be a good user, I guess, since she has blade tome effect based on allies bonuses, and she is quite fast if you invest on her Spd. If we get a fast ranged unit that has attack twice effect on enemy phase, that's the skill for that unit. Finish is Infantry exclusive. It's a very good skill, especially for dragons since they can have DC in the seal. Legendary Fae makes very good use of it, because she usually has her special ready so all her attacks deals +5 damage and heals her with 7 HP (Fae also has Guard on her weapon, so no need to run Dual Stance 3). Medeus makes good use of it too. Good for beasts too, since you can stack the +5 damage with the +7 from special triggering (I want Atk/Def Finish for Askr, once that releases). Outside these two classes, maybe the Atk/Spd version will be good in dodge units, like Mareeta? So you reduce damage from attacks, and heal back the HP lost? Inf Spd Tactic is nice. Not much to say about this once since it's what a player should expect: a support skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 2 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said: WHAT, REALLY?!!! Thats kinda insane. I thought that it'd last AT MOST until the end of the CYL banner. I remember that last year, around the CYL banner time, they were offering a free hero from the CYL 3 to who downloaded the game at that time, but I thought that it was some kind of special deal or whatever, not that it was normal to have it last for 2 years like that... Nah, it's how it's always been. I saved my CYL5 free summon until a few months ago, waiting for when I'd get three of the units on it so I could pick the fourth. I did a similar thing with CYL4, although I only had to save that one for a few months instead of most of a year. (And I used my CYL6 free summon today, because I was lucky enough to pull Seliph/Chrom/Tiki before even hitting the spark.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 7 hours ago, DefyingFates said: I know I'm jumping the gun here, but what are everyone's early thoughts on the new inheritable skills that have been added with these Heroes? Any of them "must haves" for fodder like Steady Breath was back in the day? Or are any skills just "really, really good"? I imagine Spd Precept could be fun on Vantage teams and Atk/ Res Finish could be useful for tanks, but am drawing a blank for the others. Clash could be good on L!Sigurd (and B!Alm/ Yuri), I guess? Preempt is only usable by ranged units. It's extremely niche and appears to be aimed at units that can one-hit kill the opponent with a pre-charged Special. The main problem is that units are unable to run Special Spiral at the same time, which effectively limits its viability to just Brave Byleth. Furthermore, it has the same problem as standard Vantage in that it cannot be run with Null C-Disrupt, which leaves the unit still vulnerable to Sweep effects, which remain common in Aether Raids. Clash is only usable by non-armored melee units. It grants +6 to two stats if the unit initiating combat moved at least 1 space and grants an additional +1 for each space the unit initiating combat moved, up to a maximum of 4 spaces. This means it has a floor of +7, which matches the boost from a single stack of Ideal or Catch and a ceiling of +10, which is one point higher than the boost from both stacks of Ideal or Catch. If the unit initiating combat moved at least 2 spaces, the unit holding this skill has their penalties to the boosted stats nullified. The distance moved is counted as the distance between the starting space and the ending space and ignores the actual path taken (so you can't cheese out extra stats by using a squiggly path). Needless to say, this skill is finicky, as you lose the stat boost entirely if the unit initiating combat does not move when attacking. Between Clash and Ideal/Catch, which is preferred depends on how much movement you can expect to consistently get, whether or not penalty nullification is meaningful in the game mode, and whether or not you can expect to activate both stacks of Ideal/Catch. Finish is only usable by infantry. The unit needs to remain within 3 spaces of an ally to activate the skill, which is extremely lenient. The unit gains +7 to two stats as long as the skill is active and gains an additional +5 damage and 7 HP regeneration per attack if the unit's Special is fully charged or if the unit has already activated their Special before or during combat. Finish is most notably useful on dragons due to the fact that Finish + Distant Counter (D) is strictly better than Distant Counter Push/Stance + Sacred Seal if the unit can maintain the Special skill condition. Even without maintaining the Special skill condition, Finish + Distant Counter (D) is still active on both phases (compared to Stance), doesn't have recoil damage (compared to Push), has a more lenient condition (compared to any Sacred Seal), and is not behind by much in stats, being behind 2 stacks of Form in the Sacred Seal slot by 1 point, Solo by 3 points, and 3 stacks of Form by 5 points. The only real downside to Finish is the fact that 5 points of effective stats are forced into Atk and cannot be changed to a different stat. Naturally, Brave Tiki and Legendary Fae are the best users of Finish due to being able to almost always have their Special fully charged at the start of combat. It can also viably be used on any units with Special Spiral, as long as they don't need Distant Counter and are not running an AoE Special. Ascended Mareeta can also viably run Atk/Spd Finish once it's released due to her weapon automatically fully charging Vital Astra after combat. Duo Ike can also viably run Atk/Spd Finish with his default Radiant Aether as long as you're willing to give up Distant Counter and his B slot to run Special Spiral. Inf. Spd Tactic has no inheritance restrictions. It's extremely niche due to having the team composition requirements of being a Tactic skill. The only thing it gains over Spd Tactic 3 is that it also grants the Null Follow-Up status effect to infantry units in range (as long as the team composition requirement is fulfilled). This is cool, but if you wanted the Null Follow-Up, you're generally better off giving Inf. Null Follow to an infantry dancer or other infantry support unit. This skill looks like it exists specifically for Brave Chrom to use so that he could grant Null Follow-Up in order to copy it without needing to be an infantry unit himself and seems pretty useless for skill inheritance. 7 hours ago, Arthur97 said: Problem with that is this isn't some student art project, it's a product. Which means to some extent fan wishes should be at least considered. They essentially looked at the results and went yes, but no. Like, why hold the poll at all if you're going to skirt it and still represent the version that didn't win? In all technicality, yes, it's adult Tiki, but it looks so much like young Tiki, it's very reasonable for those people to feel shafted. Especially as this was a pushback against young Tiki. And, yes, yes, Japan views Tiki differently, but that's also ignoring or ignorant of why adult Tiki was pushed to the top anyway. How is representing the version that didn't win any different than representing a character that didn't win? Greil and Eliwood didn't win CYL 1, but were represented by Ike and Roy, respectively. SImilarly, what about Brave Lyn, who is literally in her default outfit, but with a fur pelt over her shoulder (and a few small changes to details here and there)? Or Brave Alm and Brave Celica, who are just in their outfits from a different game? The argument boils down to just "we don't like young Tiki and don't want to be reminded of her existence, and we believe our opinion is more valid than players that do like young Tiki". Sure, I'd also like to see Tiki in Naga's outfit, but I have a feeling they're saving that for an Ascended or Legendary version. I don't know why anyone would want to see her in Banutu's outfit other than just to see her dressed up as anyone associated with her other than young Tiki. And we have more alts of Marth than we have of young Tiki, not to mention we already have someone cosplaying as him from the same game as big Tiki. 3 hours ago, vikingsfan92 said: I hope they get back to Brave heroes resplednents and they are more adventurous with the resplendent designs With the exception of the alfar outfits, Resplendent outfits usually keep similar elements as the original outfit, so you're not going to get anything radically different with most Resplendent outfits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefyingFates Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said: Clash is melee exclusive except armor, so Yuri can't use it (which I am glad). You need to remember to move or bait a foe that moves to attack, or else it will not work. But it's a way to get a good boost to stats. I think Ideal/Catch are easier to use, but this one is not bad. I forgot about the melee condition, thanks! So this skill is still best on cavs, huh? You're right that those other skills are more reliable too, even if Clash has greater potential gains. 13 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said: Preempt is good but I dont see that many good users for it. It's ranged exclusive, and you need to have more spd than foe. It's good on units that have insta specials, like Brave Byleth and Legendary Male Byleth, but I dont remember who else... Maybe a fast Blade tome unit? Ashera could be a good user, I guess, since she has blade tome effect based on allies bonuses, and she is quite fast if you invest on her Spd. If we get a fast ranged unit that has attack twice effect on enemy phase, that's the skill for that unit. I was thinking of redoing my og!Nino, but it does sound like it's a really niche skill (especially since my planned Nino would have GDI 4 and not a bigger Spd booster). 13 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said: Finish is Infantry exclusive. It's a very good skill, especially for dragons since they can have DC in the seal. Legendary Fae makes very good use of it, because she usually has her special ready so all her attacks deals +5 damage and heals her with 7 HP (Fae also has Guard on her weapon, so no need to run Dual Stance 3). Medeus makes good use of it too. Good for beasts too, since you can stack the +5 damage with the +7 from special triggering (I want Atk/Def Finish for Askr, once that releases). Outside these two classes, maybe the Atk/Spd version will be good in dodge units, like Mareeta? So you reduce damage from attacks, and heal back the HP lost? So what I gather is that the Atk/Res variant is pretty niche so far? I don't have Fae or Medeus, so I'll hold onto this and keep an eye out for any Spd boosting variants then. 13 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said: Inf Spd Tactic is nice. Not much to say about this once since it's what a player should expect: a support skill. According to Ice, the JPN phrasing allows for other movement type versions, so that'll be something to look forward to! 10 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: Preempt is only usable by ranged units. It's extremely niche and appears to be aimed at units that can one-hit kill the opponent with a pre-charged Special. The main problem is that units are unable to run Special Spiral at the same time, which effectively limits its viability to just Brave Byleth. Furthermore, it has the same problem as standard Vantage in that it cannot be run with Null C-Disrupt, which leaves the unit still vulnerable to Sweep effects, which remain common in Aether Raids. Yeah, it really does feel like it was made for Byleth and little else (at least for now, but I'm sure there'll be others soon enough)... 10 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: Clash is only usable by non-armored melee units. It grants +6 to two stats if the unit initiating combat moved at least 1 space and grants an additional +1 for each space the unit initiating combat moved, up to a maximum of 4 spaces. This means it has a floor of +7, which matches the boost from a single stack of Ideal or Catch and a ceiling of +10, which is one point higher than the boost from both stacks of Ideal or Catch. If the unit initiating combat moved at least 2 spaces, the unit holding this skill has their penalties to the boosted stats nullified. The distance moved is counted as the distance between the starting space and the ending space and ignores the actual path taken (so you can't cheese out extra stats by using a squiggly path). Needless to say, this skill is finicky, as you lose the stat boost entirely if the unit initiating combat does not move when attacking. Between Clash and Ideal/Catch, which is preferred depends on how much movement you can expect to consistently get, whether or not penalty nullification is meaningful in the game mode, and whether or not you can expect to activate both stacks of Ideal/Catch. So as I said to Diovani, you have to decide whether you can reliably get the most out of Clash, otherwise you're better off with Ideal/ Catch? 10 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: Finish is only usable by infantry. The unit needs to remain within 3 spaces of an ally to activate the skill, which is extremely lenient. The unit gains +7 to two stats as long as the skill is active and gains an additional +5 damage and 7 HP regeneration per attack if the unit's Special is fully charged or if the unit has already activated their Special before or during combat. Finish is most notably useful on dragons due to the fact that Finish + Distant Counter (D) is strictly better than Distant Counter Push/Stance + Sacred Seal if the unit can maintain the Special skill condition. Even without maintaining the Special skill condition, Finish + Distant Counter (D) is still active on both phases (compared to Stance), doesn't have recoil damage (compared to Push), has a more lenient condition (compared to any Sacred Seal), and is not behind by much in stats, being behind 2 stacks of Form in the Sacred Seal slot by 1 point, Solo by 3 points, and 3 stacks of Form by 5 points. The only real downside to Finish is the fact that 5 points of effective stats are forced into Atk and cannot be changed to a different stat. Naturally, Brave Tiki and Legendary Fae are the best users of Finish due to being able to almost always have their Special fully charged at the start of combat. It can also viably be used on any units with Special Spiral, as long as they don't need Distant Counter and are not running an AoE Special. Ascended Mareeta can also viably run Atk/Spd Finish once it's released due to her weapon automatically fully charging Vital Astra after combat. Duo Ike can also viably run Atk/Spd Finish with his default Radiant Aether as long as you're willing to give up Distant Counter and his B slot to run Special Spiral. It really does sound like Finish is the breakout star of new fodder in this update - or at least the potential it introduces. Is it a good fit for L!Corrin if you use DCD with her? Thank you both very much! 10 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: The argument boils down to just "we don't like young Tiki and don't want to be reminded of her existence, and we believe our opinion is more valid than players that do like young Tiki". Sure, I'd also like to see Tiki in Naga's outfit, but I have a feeling they're saving that for an Ascended or Legendary version. I don't know why anyone would want to see her in Banutu's outfit other than just to see her dressed up as anyone associated with her other than young Tiki. And we have more alts of Marth than we have of young Tiki, not to mention we already have someone cosplaying as him from the same game as big Tiki. I don't want to raise a fuss, so if I may quickly throw my 2 cents in and dip: while IS has full creative freedom over the units, at least the Western front should be aware of the pushback against Y!Tiki since that was the biggest reason for Tiki winning over here (not to mention all the tweets mentioning it in response to their own - both their CYL ones and the tweets for banners Y!Tiki was on), so it really does feel like IS was only catering to the Eastern audience with her or doing this out of spite as the memes suggest. That's pretty common for Eastern devs unfortunately, but there you go. While I feel her fans' pain, I personally do like how she looks and as you said, "Naga!Tiki" seems a prime candidate for an Ascended alt down the line, especially if Nintendo decided to make the most of Ikue Otani coming back to record a bunch of alts with her in one go before wanting to never see her again. Time will tell, I guess. Edited August 18, 2022 by DefyingFates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 (edited) I honestly don’t understand why Brave Tiki is even a controversy. If she was drawn like Lachesis was, sure, but she’s clearly her older self. It seems like people dislike her younger self so much that even seeing an outfit similar to hers is too much? It’s a shame that people are motivated by jealousy over what other characters “get” instead of joy of what their favourites “get”. Edited August 18, 2022 by Baldrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Use the Falchion Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 45 minutes ago, Baldrick said: I honestly don’t understand why Brave Tiki is even a controversy. If she was drawn like Lachesis was, sure, but she’s clearly her older self. It seems like people dislike her younger self so much that even seeing an outfit similar to hers is too much? From what I'm seeing (and partially how I feel, but not remotely to the degree of others), sort of. Those who voted for Awakening Tiki specifically wanted nothing to do with her child form, hence why this version was voted for and not her child form. IntSys then putting her in her childhood clothes feels like they're either doing so out of spite, stupidity, or sloth. (Sorry, I just really wanted the alliteration. "Ignorance or laziness" would be a better term.) Tiki has other characters she can be associated to, like Naga who is her mother (and seemingly has a closer or more overt mother-daughter connection (but not necessarily relationship) with her in Awakening), or Bantu who was her guardian for years/centuries/longer. Or in Awakening, she also has a close bond with both Lucina and Say'ri. Any of the four would work for a nice reference and fun character art. But IntSys choosing not to honor any of these bonds or relationships and going back to a look that fans specifically voted to get away from feels insulting. The same is true to a lesser degree for Byleth from what I've seen. The art looks great, but fans wanted a specific Byleth - one with blue hair - and IntSys outright ignored that in order to do an homage to Sothis. Personally, I'm a fan of the artwork and costume (although I do wear it after the hair color switch in-game) so I'm not bothered by it, but I understand why it would bother some fans. Why vote for your favorite version of a character when IntSys is going to do what they want with the art and make them more akin to the version of the character it seems like they like? It'd be like having a Spider-Man voting contest, and you vote for Miles Morales because you like his costume the best, only for the artist to stick him in Peter Parker's contest - what was the point of voting if they were always going to use the design they wanted? Again, that's how I've interpreted what I've seen. I can't speak for the skills or the quality of the art itself in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 30 minutes ago, DefyingFates said: So as I said to Diovani, you have to decide whether you can reliably get the most out of Clash, otherwise you're better off with Ideal/ Catch? The thing is that Clash is actually really good, even if you aren't getting the most out of it, as long as you make sure to always move. In game modes where stat penalties are common, Clash is always going to have an advantage over Ideal/Catch, because trading 1~2 points in two stats is generally worth it to nullify a penalty. After all, we aren't always using both stacks of Ideal/Catch either. In game modes where stat penalties are not common is where the comparison gets interesting: Cavalry don't have many options for their C slot, and so a lot of them optimally run Menace. Despite the fact that cavalry have the highest movement range, this unexpectedly actually tilts the balance in favor of Catch since you need to move the full 3 spaces in order for Clash to match Catch's stat boost. If you have impeccable AI prediction and can make sure your unit is always moving 3 spaces, Clash is strictly better, but for us mere mortals, we probably get more out of Catch. Fliers typically run Rein in their C slot and therefore need to rely on teammates for debuff support. If you aren't running debuff support at all, Clash is better because it matches a single stack of Catch with just 1 movement and beats a single stack of Catch with 2 movement. Fliers also generally have more access to teleportation effects, especially when you are running multiple fliers on a team (Air Orders, Guidance, etc.), which also allows them to gain additional movement to power Clash. However, if you are running debuff support on a teammate, Catch is almost strictly better, as you need to move 3 spaces for Clash to match Catch, which is not something that can be relied on at all. Infantry is also interesting because, like fliers, keeping both stacks of Ideal active is not always reliable, so as long as the unit moves at all, it already gets at least as much out of Clash as it would with only a single stack of Ideal. Obviously, for infantry that are intended to always be at max HP, like Sweepers and some units with Brave weapons, Ideal is typically better since they can consistently keep both stacks active. Additionally, there's Pathfinder to consider because while movement through a Pathfinder unit doesn't count towards movement cost, it does count towards Clash since Clash is only concerned with the distance between the starting and ending spaces, not the movement spent. If you're running units with Pathfinder, you can pretty easily get some additional movement out of your units. Clash is functional on dual-phase units, but it depends on the movement of the opponent instead. In game modes that give you the flexibility to bait out opposing units one by one, you're typically already forcing the opponent to use their maximum movement range, which heavily favors using Clash. In game modes that don't let you do this, you're probably better off using something else on dual-phase units, especially if you're expecting the opponent to just bunch up next do you, like some teams in Aether Raids do. Dual-phase units with Canto also have some synergy with Clash due to the fact that they can move back after attacking to force the opponent to use additional movement. Since Clash is restricted to melee units, all relevant units that have Canto will always be able to move at least 1 space after attacking (Canto Control still allows melee units to move 1 space, and melee units get Canto (Rem.+1) instead of Canto (Rem.), which always allows them to move at least 1 space). Obviously, this is only a comparison between Clash and Ideal/Catch. Specialized skills, like Surge, Impact, and Stance, have secondary effects that some units rely on, which make it harder to use Clash on them, even if Clash grants more points of stats. It's a bit disappointing that it's restricted to melee units because it would've been perfect for units like Halloween Nowi and Ninja Igrene, who can teleport up to 4 spaces with the right positioning. 30 minutes ago, DefyingFates said: It really does sound like Finish is the breakout star of new fodder in this update - or at least the potential it introduces. Is it a good fit for L!Corrin if you use DCD with her? Right. Legendary Corrin can also easily keep her Special charged at the start of combat. I think she benefits most from Atk/Spd Finish + Distant Counter (D), but Atk/Res Finish is probably still viable enough if you are confident in her ability to land one-hit kills with Negating Fang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanoid Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 As someone who's a fan of neither Young Tiki nor Naga, I was on a hiding to nothing. 😛 I genuinely wanted a non-dragon Tiki, something like her first summer alt, but good and drawn well. Hell, even if it meant she had to be the sword infantry of this year's batch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said: Tiki has other characters she can be associated to, like Naga who is her mother (and seemingly has a closer or more overt mother-daughter connection (but not necessarily relationship) with her in Awakening), or Bantu who was her guardian for years/centuries/longer. Or in Awakening, she also has a close bond with both Lucina and Say'ri. Any of the four would work for a nice reference and fun character art. But IntSys choosing not to honor any of these bonds or relationships and going back to a look that fans specifically voted to get away from feels insulting. So far, the relationships we've had were: Parent: Ike (Greil) Roy (Eliwood) Ephraim (Fado) Seliph (Sigurd) Other important ancestor: Marth (Anri) Byleth (Sothis) Sibling: Hector (Uther) Veronica (Bruno) Eirika (Ephraim) Existing alternate outfit: Lucina (Great Lord) Celica (Gaiden) Alm (Gaiden) Micaiah (Light Priestess) Eliwood (Epilogue) Dimitri (Great Lord) Edelgard (Emperor) Claude (Barbarossa) Lysithea (Gremory) Marianne (Dancer) Chrom (Great Lord) New original outfit: Lyn (barely) Camilla Default outfit: Gatekeeper Given the existing patterns, Banutu, Lucina, and Say'ri make zero sense to have as CYL outfits for big Tiki. Naga would work, but Naga is pretty much a given for a Legendary or Ascended version. And again, I cannot see any reason why anyone would want to see Tiki in Banutu's outfit other than spite. It's literally a face and a cloak. Your jealousy and spite is your problem, not the IS's. I should probably expect it by now, but sometimes, the amount of negativity in fandoms that go mainstream still manages to astound me. I'm old enough to be a disappointed dad, and that's kind of how I'm feeling right now at this "controversy". Y'all need to grow up. Edited August 18, 2022 by Ice Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanoid Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 Maybe it's time to put the kibosh on this format of CYL and instead have us vote on Duos/Harmonics to avoid the subjective aspect entirely. Going by CYL6 results, if we paired each winner with the highest-ranking runner-up as their backpack: Chrom + Bernadetta A Tiki + Felix Seliph + Soren F Byleth + F Corrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 It was super hectic for the past few days, but I can finally jot down my thoughts. Byleth: Sublime Light is pretty good. Divine Pulse basically just makes all her attacks deal true damage. Spd Preempt does not sound very good, and even though she can Special spam for Counter-Vantage, I do not think it is enough given today's level of bulk. I would run Sweep or Desperation for more protection or Trace for more stats on B. Seliph: Enduring Legacy feels more like a wallbreaker than a dual phase unit. Miracle on the Weapon is nice, but I do not think that is something to rely on given its extra conditions, and he lacks Guard. Lull Spd/Def is fine, but Sweep and Desperation are also options to consider. Tiki: Fated Divinity is basically Rhea: Witch of Creation but much better. Finish is very good alternative to Stance especially since you can offload Guard to a staff unit with Tannenbaton, but armor units cannot use it sadly. Chrom: Fated Honor feels a bit inconsistent. You really want to stack as much status effects as possible on the team, but that can be hard to do. For a shit ton of damage reduction, he can get Fallen Star and Dodge from the one of the two Claudes. For wall breaking, while armor effectiveness is nice, it is not the most reliable in my opinion, and you can probably try getting Dominance and/or Treachery from Micaiah: Dawn Wind's Duo and/or Roy: Blazing Bachelors for extra true damage. 53 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: I should probably expect it by now, but sometimes, the amount of negativity in fandoms that go mainstream still manages to astound me. I'm old enough to be a disappointed dad, and that's kind of how I'm feeling right now at this "controversy". Y'all need to grow up. Was not there a saying that nobody hates Fire Emblem more than Fire Emblem fans? We got to live up to the stereotype somehow and nitpick on something no matter how trivial it is! Haha. Even I subconsciouly feel a slight resentment towards Fire Emblem, although for entirely different reason. I do not really care about the artwork or outfits either, but it is about time that Intelligent Systems show some love towards Advance Wars and release the damned game. Compared to the shit storm that I have seen in the D&D community, the Fire Emblem community does not seem too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefyingFates Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: The thing is that Clash is actually really good, even if you aren't getting the most out of it, as long as you make sure to always move... There's too much to quote, but thank you very much for the write-up! I didn't realize how prevalent warping was these days, so.. yeah, that's quite a bit of potential to tap for Clash right there (Assault Troop perhaps?) Thanks for explaining the differences between how different class types use it too, I really appreciate it! 2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: Right. Legendary Corrin can also easily keep her Special charged at the start of combat. I think she benefits most from Atk/Spd Finish + Distant Counter (D), but Atk/Res Finish is probably still viable enough if you are confident in her ability to land one-hit kills with Negating Fang. Thanks! And don't worry, I'm not going to give it to her right away, I was just thinking aloud to see if I understood how it worked. For the moment I'm trying not to regret giving my Tiki Blue Flame, since that knocks Finish off-balance except on enemy phase 😛 At this point, I just hope the other Finish and Clashes aren't restricted to just future Legendaries/ Mythics and the odd Seasonal, even though I know that's exactly what's going to happen. Spd Preempt and Inf. Spd Tactic at least seem tame enough to appear in regular banners going forward (the latter especially). Anyone else have any predictions about those too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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