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22 minutes ago, XRay said:

Spd Preempt does not sound very good, and even though she can Special spam for Counter-Vantage, I do not think it is enough given today's level of bulk.

Spd Preempt on Byleth effectively just means that you can treat all combat as Byleth initiating combat. Given that she has extremely high damage reduction on the opponent's first attack after Divine Pulse activates (75%), you can very much afford to not kill in a single hit.

The only units that actually threaten her on enemy phase are melee units, Hardy Bearing, AoE specials (if the unit has Hardy Bearing or enough bulk to tank a single hit), and skills that ignore percentage damage reduction (if the unit has Hardy Bearing or enough bulk to tank a single hit).

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8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

and skills that ignore percentage damage reduction (if the unit has Hardy Bearing or enough bulk to tank a single hit).

Isn't Divine Pulse immune to DR-reduction though, since it's a Special?

...though it's funny that this banner also gave us someone who pierces DR too...

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7 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Isn't Divine Pulse immune to DR-reduction though, since it's a Special?

...though it's funny that this banner also gave us someone who pierces DR too...

It is indeed, and people tested just to be sure it wasn't like Vital Astra.

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Well I pulled Chrom in my 40 pulls and free picked Seliph and Byleth.  I rarely use infantry and since Tiki is green she has a high chance of showing up later, though I might snip for her if I feel lucky.

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30 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Isn't Divine Pulse immune to DR-reduction though, since it's a Special?

...though it's funny that this banner also gave us someone who pierces DR too...

22 minutes ago, Florete said:

It is indeed, and people tested just to be sure it wasn't like Vital Astra.

Woah. That's fancy.

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11 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

How is representing the version that didn't win any different than representing a character that didn't win? Greil and Eliwood didn't win CYL 1, but were represented by Ike and Roy, respectively.

SImilarly, what about Brave Lyn, who is literally in her default outfit, but with a fur pelt over her shoulder (and a few small changes to details here and there)? Or Brave Alm and Brave Celica, who are just in their outfits from a different game?

 

The argument boils down to just "we don't like young Tiki and don't want to be reminded of her existence, and we believe our opinion is more valid than players that do like young Tiki".

Sure, I'd also like to see Tiki in Naga's outfit, but I have a feeling they're saving that for an Ascended or Legendary version. I don't know why anyone would want to see her in Banutu's outfit other than just to see her dressed up as anyone associated with her other than young Tiki. And we have more alts of Marth than we have of young Tiki, not to mention we already have someone cosplaying as him from the same game as big Tiki.

 

With the exception of the alfar outfits, Resplendent outfits usually keep similar elements as the original outfit, so you're not going to get anything radically different with most Resplendent outfits.

For one, cause there isn't a version of Roy and Ike you could vote for that are dressed like that. It'd be like if they dressed 4's winners in their academy outfits. More than that though, it's really quite simple in that it outright ignores the main reason she won at all. That being the bias towards young Tiki. So, what do they do when the fans rally and vote in her older self? Reference young Tiki anyway. So perhaps a better analogy would be if people were angry Eliwood was getting more alts than Roy and then they did brave Roy. Context is extremely important here. It's a case of losing even when you win for those who voted for that reason. Female Byleth at least has the excuse of it being a third hair color that was not votable, but they still kinda skirted the results there as well, but at least that was a neutral option. 

And, for the record, I don't like how they handled Alm and Celica either though I have less of a stake in them. I don't think it was a good choice to represent their older looks when people were clearly voting for the remakes.  

Also seems extremely generous to assume she'll get an ascended given both their track record with adult Tiki and who she has to compete with for that spot (Lucina who already has a Cipher outfit that fits ready to go, Owain, Lissa, Male and Female Robin, Male and Female Morgan). 

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2 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

For one, cause there isn't a version of Roy and Ike you could vote for that are dressed like that.

And there isn't a version of big Tiki that you could vote for that is dressed like small Tiki.

As a bigger fan of small Tiki than of big Tiki, I do not consider big Tiki in small Tiki's clothes to be equivalent to small Tiki. Furthermore, I don't even consider big Tiki to be the same character as small Tiki.

 

5 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

And, for the record, I don't like how they handled Alm and Celica either though I have less of a stake in them. I don't think it was a good choice to represent their older looks when people were clearly voting for the remakes.  

Gaiden and Echoes have never had separate ballot entries.

 

9 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Also seems extremely generous to assume she'll get an ascended given both their track record with adult Tiki and who she has to compete with for that spot (Lucina who already has a Cipher outfit that fits ready to go, Owain, Lissa, Male and Female Robin, Male and Female Morgan). 

You seem to have missed "or Legendary version", where Awakening notably only has two remaining likely candidates: Female Robin and Tiki.

Tiki as Future Past Naga could even qualify as a Mythic Hero if they don't mind breaking their pattern of only including base versions of characters.

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1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

And there isn't a version of big Tiki that you could vote for that is dressed like small Tiki.

As a bigger fan of small Tiki than of big Tiki, I do not consider big Tiki in small Tiki's clothes to be equivalent to small Tiki. Furthermore, I don't even consider big Tiki to be the same character as small Tiki.

 

Gaiden and Echoes have never had separate ballot entries.

 

You seem to have missed "or Legendary version", where Awakening notably only has two remaining likely candidates: Female Robin and Tiki.

Tiki as Future Past Naga could even qualify as a Mythic Hero if they don't mind breaking their pattern of only including base versions of characters.

But there is a version of Tiki dressed like that. The one that didn't win and was consistently outvoted. If people wanted a young Tiki reference they would have voted for her instead. No, it's clearly not small Tiki, but it's about as close as they could possibly make it. Even the sprites look ludicrously similar. 

No, those two have never had separate entries, but Alm and Celica went nowhere till Echoes so obviously those were the versions people were voting for. 

Er...you mean Male Robin? Not really relevant but I certainly hope they don't do Female Robin after female Grima. And I still kinda doubt legendary Tiki as they consider her a minor character for Awakening which, yeah, fair enough in that regard. Mythic maybe.

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7 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

But there is a version of Tiki dressed like that.

There is not a version of big Tiki dressed like that. Big Tiki and small Tiki are not the same character.

 

48 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

No, it's clearly not small Tiki, but it's about as close as they could possibly make it.

"As close as they could possibly make it" is the small Tiki we already got at launch. There's literally nothing different here than with Brave Roy or Brave Seliph, who also look extremely similar to the person they're dressed up as.

 

48 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Even the sprites look ludicrously similar. 

Don't care. Artwork is more important.

 

9 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

If people wanted a young Tiki reference they would have voted for her instead.

Voting for small Tiki would not have gotten big Tiki in small Tiki's outfit.

Just like how voting for Eliwood would not get Roy in Eliwood's outfit.

 

14 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

And I still kinda doubt legendary Tiki as they consider her a minor character for Awakening which, yeah, fair enough in that regard. Mythic maybe.

There are literally only 9 remaining main characters that have not gotten a Legendary Hero version.

Furthermore, we've gotten small Tiki, Fae, and Myrrh as Legendary Heroes despite none of them being considered main characters, and big Tiki is Awakening's analogue to them. It's a matter of "when", not "if".

 

 

And I ask this question again:

Realistically, what other outfit could big Tiki have gotten?

  • Banutu is not realistic. Tiki's face poking out from a cloak is not a realistic option for them to take.
  • Lucina and Say'ri are not realistic. Their relationship with Tiki is too far removed to be a consideration when looking at the existing patterns.
  • Marth is not realistic. His relationship is also far enough removed and also makes less sense for big Tiki than for small Tiki. And we already have a Marth cosplayer.
  • Naga is only possible if they aren't already saving the outfit for an Ascended, Legendary, or Mythic version, and it's very likely that they are.
  • Small Tiki is possible.
  • Alternate outfits of big Tiki are unlikely. She doesn't promote, and while she has the option to class change, IS clearly doesn't like class changing dragons due to the pool of characters capable of being implemented as dragons being so small.
  • An original outfit would be possible if they had an excuse for what the outfit is meant to represent, but I don't think they have one for Tiki.
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33 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

There is not a version of big Tiki dressed like that. Big Tiki and small Tiki are not the same character.

 

"As close as they could possibly make it" is the small Tiki we already got at launch. There's literally nothing different here than with Brave Roy or Brave Seliph, who also look extremely similar to the person they're dressed up as.

 

Don't care. Artwork is more important.

 

Voting for small Tiki would not have gotten big Tiki in small Tiki's outfit.

Just like how voting for Eliwood would not get Roy in Eliwood's outfit.

 

There are literally only 9 remaining main characters that have not gotten a Legendary Hero version.

Furthermore, we've gotten small Tiki, Fae, and Myrrh as Legendary Heroes despite none of them being considered main characters, and big Tiki is Awakening's analogue to them. It's a matter of "when", not "if".

 

 

And I ask this question again:

Realistically, what other outfit could big Tiki have gotten?

  • Banutu is not realistic. Tiki's face poking out from a cloak is not a realistic option for them to take.
  • Lucina and Say'ri are not realistic. Their relationship with Tiki is too far removed to be a consideration when looking at the existing patterns.
  • Marth is not realistic. His relationship is also far enough removed and also makes less sense for big Tiki than for small Tiki. And we already have a Marth cosplayer.
  • Naga is only possible if they aren't already saving the outfit for an Ascended, Legendary, or Mythic version, and it's very likely that they are.
  • Small Tiki is possible.
  • Alternate outfits of big Tiki are unlikely. She doesn't promote, and while she has the option to class change, IS clearly doesn't like class changing dragons due to the pool of characters capable of being implemented as dragons being so small.
  • An original outfit would be possible if they had an excuse for what the outfit is meant to represent, but I don't think they have one for Tiki.

It seems part of this is based on the phallacy of you thinking they aren't the same character...but they are. Factually speaking, they are the same character. Now, a lot of time has passed and clearly their fan bases don't fully mesh which could give you practical reasons to say they are different, but they are the same person at different points in her life. 

And I meant as close as they could make it while still technically going by the results. They followed the results of the vote, not so much the intent. Again, it goes back to if people wanted academy TH lords, they would have voted for academy TH lords. If we wanted young Tiki content, they would have voted for young Tiki. But that's all kinda beside the point as it's not like them. This was a direct response to how people perceived adult Tiki was treated compared to young Tiki. Yet instead of something unique or based on Naga or literally anything else, they gave us this. And, yeah, I wouldn't have wanted Bantu either, but at least then it wouldn't have been directly opposed to the whole point. Because, as I said, the context is extremely important here. It didn't matter about Ike and Roy because they weren't voted in to get out from under Greil and Eliwood's shadows. Adult Tiki was voted in largely because people were tired of her getting so little compared to her younger self. They are different because the surrounding circumstances are different. 

 

That legendary example is somewhat poor. Young Tiki was generally around more in Archanea, and I'm at least told Fae is decently important to the plot at least. I agree the pool is quickly drying up, but I'm also hardly confident they'll pick adult Tiki. Especially with the afore referenced divide in how they treat young and adult Tiki. Adult Tiki wasn't even mandatory in Awakening. At least in that regard Mythics aren't as picky. Either way, you can't really confirm that she's getting one, or that it'll be the Naga outfit so that it couldn't have been used here.

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7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Naga would work, but Naga is pretty much a given for a Legendary or Ascended version.

Except Ascended versions don't have a distinct pattern at the moment (at least one that I can decipher), so it's far from a guarantee or truth. 

Legendary maybe, but given that Y!Tiki has had one, I'm not entirely sure this will happen. 

 

But at the end of the day, while I feel disappointed, I'm really not that upset. I honestly forget about it - there are far too many other things in real life and in the game to think about than some artwork from a unit I'm collecting for the sake of collecting. I'm just explaining what I've seen others seen. 

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37 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

Legendary maybe, but given that Y!Tiki has had one, I'm not entirely sure this will happen. 

Which just makes a Mythic Tiki more likely. They'll all been debut appearances thus far, but I think "Tiki became (the closest thing we had to a) god (until FE16 and FEH)" is worth making an exception for.

But to get back on topic, who do you think will go down as the star of this year's CYL? Obviously everyone started off in awe at Chrom's potential, but have two days of everyone being available (and one for Jeralt) changed people's opinions?

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3 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

It seems part of this is based on the phallacy of you thinking they aren't the same character...but they are. Factually speaking, they are the same character. Now, a lot of time has passed and clearly their fan bases don't fully mesh which could give you practical reasons to say they are different, but they are the same person at different points in her life. 

They’re the same person, yes. But still different characters. The concept of one person being used to portray two different characters is nothing new, which includes the concept of two characters being the same person at different points in time. Mario and Baby Mario are the same person but different characters. Same with Link and Young Link in OoT. Because that’s what the people handling the characters considers them to be, and Small Tiki and Big Tiki are no different in that aspect.

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1 minute ago, Jave said:

They’re the same person, yes. But still different characters. The concept of one person being used to portray two different characters is nothing new, which includes the concept of two characters being the same person at different points in time. Mario and Baby Mario are the same person but different characters. Same with Link and Young Link in OoT. Because that’s what the people handling the characters considers them to be, and Small Tiki and Big Tiki are no different in that aspect.

I think Link and young Link are only ever considered different in Melee and Ultimate, and in Ultimate they literally are different characters.

I can somewhat see it, but it does also ironically fly into the face of the argument a lot of people use to say Tiki is Tiki so shut up and like it. The biggest tell will be if smol is still votable next year. While I don't have much love lost for the younger one though, I'm not sure if they can really fit into the Baby Mario and Mario category. Those two have a heavier disconnect. Adult is still very much a continuation of smol. 

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6 hours ago, Florete said:

It is indeed, and people tested just to be sure it wasn't like Vital Astra.

Has anyone tested it against Nanna's Lands Sword? Or Vital Astra, for that matter?

EDIT: checked and Lands Sword should go through Vital Astra, but Divine Pulse is weird in that it triggers on user's attack and then has an effect on the foe's attack, so it might bear testing.

Edited by Seafarer
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13 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

The same is true to a lesser degree for Byleth from what I've seen. The art looks great, but fans wanted a specific Byleth - one with blue hair - and IntSys outright ignored that in order to do an homage to Sothis. Personally, I'm a fan of the artwork and costume (although I do wear it after the hair color switch in-game) so I'm not bothered by it, but I understand why it would bother some fans.

That seems like an actual bait and switch, Blue Hair Byleth won the poll, the unit is Green Hair Byleth dressed as Sothis. It’s a different and more egregious situation than Old Tiki won, and the unit is Old Tiki dressed as Young Tiki.

13 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

 

It'd be like having a Spider-Man voting contest, and you vote for Miles Morales because you like his costume the best, only for the artist to stick him in Peter Parker's contest - what was the point of voting if they were always going to use the design they wanted?

I’m not feeling this analogy because Miles and Peter are different people. That said, I strongly doubt Young Tiki would have worn her own clothes if she won, as that would be the same as her ordinary version. Most likely the clothes Old Tiki is wearing were picked specifically because Old Tiki won.

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I've been testing B!Tiki on SD while grinding score to get the 200 grails and divine codes they added recently. She's pretty fun in that mode, if you don't bring a counter she stone walls the opponent. As one would expect, she dies to B!Alm, L!Marth, pre-charged AoEs and NFU units. Her matchup against B!Seliph is horrid, and against Brave F!Byleth it's a toss up. Chrom is mostly a free kill. I tried Tiki for a bit in AR but that mode doesn't feel like the right place for her. She doesn't have any issues living,but she offers no protection to her teammates on more open maps, so it's better to just keep using Save balls rather than bring Tiki and have a teammate sniped. 

As for B!Seliph, I found a neat little tech to shut him down completely. He tends to overextend due to his 4 mov, if you park a unit in front on him without attacking he becomes helpless. I did that with B!Eirika while someone was trying to pressure me with Seliph's huge mov and they surrendered when he would die to Eirika if he dared to attack her, but he couldn't run away because that would open his teammates to be swept. It won't work on people that are well aware how Holytide Tyrfing works, but I'm fairly sure most will end up forgetting that his weapon forces Seliph or his foe to move in order to get all the benefits from his prf. 

I got F!Byleth today, so I'll start doing some testing on her. I heard that the dmg reduction from her special isn't pierced by Lethality/Deadeye as it sort of falls into the same category as Aegis/Pavise/etc., and if that's the case I can see her having a lot more potential than I gave her at first. I do wonder how it nteracts with L!Nanna because her weapon won't let those specials proc but Divine Pulse's trigger is different, not that it matters in reality when Nanna is one of those units F!Byleth will one shot if she initiates combat unless one's running a DC L!Nanna with Ymir supporting her. 

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23 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

So far, the relationships we've had were:

  • Parent:
    • Ike (Greil)
    • Roy (Eliwood)
    • Ephraim (Fado)
    • Seliph (Sigurd)
  • Other important ancestor:
    • Marth (Anri)
    • Byleth (Sothis)
  • Sibling:
    • Hector (Uther)
    • Veronica (Bruno)
    • Eirika (Ephraim)
  • Existing alternate outfit:
    • Lucina (Great Lord)
    • Celica (Gaiden)
    • Alm (Gaiden)
    • Micaiah (Light Priestess)
    • Eliwood (Epilogue)
    • Dimitri (Great Lord)
    • Edelgard (Emperor)
    • Claude (Barbarossa)
    • Lysithea (Gremory)
    • Marianne (Dancer)
    • Chrom (Great Lord)
  • New original outfit:
    • Lyn (barely)
    • Camilla
  • Default outfit:
    • Gatekeeper

Given the existing patterns, Banutu, Lucina, and Say'ri make zero sense to have as CYL outfits for big Tiki. Naga would work, but Naga is pretty much a given for a Legendary or Ascended version.

And again, I cannot see any reason why anyone would want to see Tiki in Banutu's outfit other than spite. It's literally a face and a cloak. Your jealousy and spite is your problem, not the IS's.

I should probably expect it by now, but sometimes, the amount of negativity in fandoms that go mainstream still manages to astound me. I'm old enough to be a disappointed dad, and that's kind of how I'm feeling right now at this "controversy". Y'all need to grow up.

 

 OK, this ended up being really long so I put a TLDR on the end, but I wrote all of this to whoever that still wants to understand why everyone is pissed about the decision of giving A!Tiki an Y!Tiki inspired attire, or to whoever thinks that it doesn't make sense to be strongly opposed to the design choice and is willing to read the point of view of someone that disagrees.

 

 First of all, I respectfully disagree with you Ice Dragon, with everything that you said on the comment I quoted. I personally think that the hate for the design choice was jusfifiable, and even if the outrage seems out of hand, I would bet that most of it was just because indignation always seem way louder on the internet than on real life (specially on the moment of the shock that was when the trailer came out) but yeah, this time I gotta admit that there was a point on a handful of these complaints.

 

 First thing, there's some more references to other characters connected to the winners that you didn't mention here. Lucina says that she's using those clothes to honor Chrom/that her clothes are inspired on Chrom or something like this (i don't know exactly in which sense she's using it to honor him since I didn't play awakening, but she says so herself so at least I know that it's inspired on Chrom in some way), Celica has a sword that Alm gave her, Eliwood has a lance inspired on Ninian, Marianne has a tome inspired on Maurice (Oh well, It could've been Blutgang too, anyway), Chrom has Lucina's lance (or a lance inspired on hers I guess? Since they don't have the same name...), Micaiah eh... Ok maybe this one might be kind of a stretch but Yune's spirit is there with her.

 Some other winners don't directly reference a specific character but still reference it in some way, like Alm (his armor was passed down by generations in Rigel, so it probably went throught his father), and Lyn (she is using Loca tribe clothes, which consequently references her parents' attire, also, at least she has a real legendary weapon this time like hector and Eliwood, I'll give her that too). Anyway, the point is that really most of the winners have something from or inspired on someone dear or connected to them, can even be a weapon, but regardless on the marjority of times they have something. I guess that the ones that don't are Gatekeeper (because really, what were they gonna give him? the guy doesn't even have a  name), and I don't know about Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude or Lysithea (I'm not sure if I should count Camilla since she uses the crown and the cape but its probably just because thats what the ruler of Nohr always uses and not as a way to reference her father, as far as I know), so Tiki not having anything is more of a big deal.

 

 Also, the other recurring theme on brave units (besides honoring who is dear to them) is "I want to be enough for my people because they're counting on me"/"I have to be worthy of wearing my (relative's) clothes to rule my people"/something along this line (like with Alm, Roy, Seliph, Marth, etc..), even when the clothes are not linked to anyone in particular (like Camilla, she has the weight of having to guide her people and build a better Nohr after her father's reign ending and they're all counting on her and so it makes sense for her to be the queen of Nohr on this alt, or Eliwood that uses his marquess Pherae cerimony clothes because they show the big weight that he will carry with this new position and his people is counting on him too), most of the few that don't go exactly with this theme, go with something similar but in smaller scale: a reference to someone else that is counting on them or that they want to be like (like Celica and Eirika saying that Alm and Ephraim are counting on them). Tiki doesn't go with any of these themes even if she could fit both really well (one being related to being Naga's daughter and the sucessor as leader of the divine dragons and the other, on smaller scale, being related to either Marth or Bantu and her other friends counting on her) . On a related note, Gatekeeper, Micaiah and Lyn also fit on the "I have to stand up to people's standards/make them proud/whatever because everyone's counting on me" theme even though a little more loosely, kinda more like a "I carry a heavy weight" theme, (thats why Gatekeeper has the gate that he has to guard on his art, because he was trusted with an important duty and everyone's counting on him to not fail; I don't know if Micaiah's clothes also are her queen clothes or just  her light priestress attire but at least she is said to be the ruler of Daein on this alt so it keeps the "they're counting on me" theme, while Lyn proudly uses the clothes that the people of her tribe used and talks about the weight of being the last one to carry both the Lorca tribe's blood and Caelin's royal blood on her and the importance of her heritage to her).

 What I mean is, the brave heroes always have someone that is counting on them and they show it on their clothes or on their weapon (except for Lysithea and Marianne I guess, and maybe Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude but I don't know), but Tiki doesn't, instead she uses her own clothes. Ok, they remind her of the times that she was with Marth and co. but common, she could at least have had something from him or from someone else dear to her that is counting on her or that she wants to honor, I understand that using her old self clothes is a form of honoring her past, in some way but still, one of the problems on making this outfit choice is that since Tiki is a dragon unit she can't even have a weapon that honors someone else like Eliwood, Celica and Chrom did, because if she did (like if she had Marth's sword or something) then I doubt that there would have been this much complaints about the outfit, since it was going to be only one part of the total design, but since she is a dragon unit this wasn't possible so it would have been safer to give her an outfit based on someone else. To be honest though, it didn't even had to be a weapon neither the whole outfit, I bet that if she had almost exactly the same clothes that she got but had something like either Marth's tiara, Naga's diadem, Marth's cape, Bantu's staff/cane, Naga's arm veil, Marth's shield, or idk even something like Naga's armlets or if she kept Bantu's dragon stone with her like she keeps hers on that necklace (or maybe even some accessory that is just a REFERENCE to someone, just like Eliwood's lance is not actually Ninian's, just inspired on her) then I doubt that we'd have had THAT much complaints too. Also, while I'm talking about this, to be honest I think that it'd be really sick if Tiki was using Bantu's cape, it's definitively not out of spite that I want this I just think that it'd look really sick, of course I mean if she wasn't using the hood and if they gave more details to the cloak instead of letting it be just a large piece of completely red cloth (I mean like the design they gave to the cloak on Heroes or just literally anything that gave it some detail, I don't know if I'm the only person that found that cloak absolutely sick on Bantu's OG art and wanted to see Tiki use it but anyway) I really think that they could easily have done this concept well, really well. Also while I agree that neither Lucina or Say'ri really fit the theme (as far as I know I mean, that might be just because I didn't play Awakening and never looked throught Tiki's converstaions with Lucina or Say'ri, I don't know, but in any case it would be dumb to disagree here since I wouldn't know what I'm talking about), I still think that Bantu would since he was kind of a father figure to Tiki and all (but anyway, yeah, Marth or Naga would probably fit the theme better and seemed like the most obvious choices, at least Naga!Tiki can still be an ascended alt someday I guess, but we will not have another chance to see a Tiki alt inspired on Marth or Bantu and this understandably makes some fans sad).

 

 

 Other point is that, In spite of not exactly fitting the theme that most CYL units fit and not referencing any dear friend on her brave alt as lots of fans were looking forward to, the design got lots of complaints too because it was supposed to be adult Tiki's moment and making it about Y!Tiki seemed kinda like a disrespect to the votes, it was like the thing that they did with Byleth giving her the green hair instead of the blue one, it disrespected the fans' choice (is as if we had voted for adult Zephiel but they gave us his teen version instead, or if when we voted for Hector IS had just made him use adult's Hector's clothes instead of Uther's, we voted for what we wanted to see since we had that option, and by giving Tiki her younger self clothes it looked like a way to "cheat" the "rule" that they made, like when they made Seliph and Leif and harmonic but bad, we were lucky that they didn't put an artist that makes loli style art or the situation would have looked really worse). I like Young Tiki as much as I like Adult Tiki so I wouldn't have minded AT ALL if she had won instead, but since Adult Tiki was the one who won (and specially since lots of people only voted for this version specifically because they were tired of Y!Tiki, well, not that IS would know this anyway I guess) then it should have been about the version that won, it seemed kinda cheap that they wanted to put Y!Tiki there even if it wasn't on purpouse (I gotta admit that with Byleth this point was worse though, but I think that Tiki's fans are more pissed since they voted for her adult version specifically because they were sick of Y!Tiki).

 

The other and final motive is that lots of people seem to think that IS made this decision out of spite or to show that they are the ones in charge (as if they needed to tell us this) or something like this, I think that this is reason is kinda stupid to be honest but it seems to be very true to some people around specially on Reddit and even the major reason for some to complain (When the trailer came out I also felt like it was a "fuck you it will always be adult Tiki" moment, but I definitively didn't think that it was on PURPOUSE, it was more like "Wow... Did they really do this? How did they manage to mess this up THIS badly? Weren't Marth or Naga more obvious choices? That was such a lazy design choice", I, like most people forgot during the trailer that IS didn't know that A!Tiki was voted because who voted for her was sick of Y!Tiki so at the moment it kinda seemed like a stab on the back, but some people don't seem to have realized until NOW that it wasn't on purpouse). In any case, I think that some fans felt like this too because lots of people had no idea that "Adult Tiki using her younger self's clothes" was a thing already (like on a Cipher card, and on a Harvest Scramble conversation between Tiki and Lucina), there were even some people that were sad because she wasn't wearing her hood (although she doesn't use it on the cipher card so thats probably why she does't have it on her brave alt too). I personally felt A LOT less like they messed up or were lazy after finding out that this was already a thing, even if I still think that going with something else would have been better, but some people still don't know that the design already existed so lots of people still think that it was lazy to do this.

 

 Its fine if you like it, but to call it jealousy or spite to want her to have gotten other outfit or even immaturity to complain about this is not quite right, try to understand that even if the outrage about it was way too loud, there was really more than one motive for lots of people to not have liked the outfit even if you agreed with the choice, it might seem petty but this time I really think that it was justifiable to complain, because this isn't a "Adult Tiki waifu so I hate young Tiki" thing as it may have came out as, lots of people really can't help but to think that there were better options (that will now never happen, y'know it's normal to feel sad when you feel like a brave alt was "wasted" with a concept that you don't really like) and/or that IS was unfair by disregarding the votes like this.

 

 So anyway, thats it I guess. TLDR:  Everyone voted for one version of Tiki because they were sick of the other and in the end they gave us an alt that has her using the exact same clothes of the version that wasn't voted for (even if it wasn't on purpouse, it felt kinda cheap), while at the same time being one of the outfits that least fits the CYL theme, while there were other arguable better options to go for, leaving some people feeling like her brave alt was "wasted" with a concept that they felt that could have been better (I mean, if she wasn't a character that has any relation to anyone, like Gatekeeper, I'm sure that everyone would have cared way less about using her own clothes). I just wonder what they'd have her use if the young version was the one that got voted, surely it wouldn't have been Adult Tiki's clothes, it would have been something more interesting. Also even if the "A!Tiki using Y!Tiki's clothes" concept already existed, lots of people didn't or don't know it which made them think that it was a lazy (or even proposital) decision, while lots of fans know that it was a thing but still think that it was a waste to go for this option, basically IS didn't play safe for a character that had lots of better and safer options and now lots of people don't like it, while at the same time they were unlucky enough to choose to not play safe with a character that was voted specifically for one version and they ended up referencing the version that lots of people didn't want to see, it was all coincidential but still some can't help but to have that feeling that they "wasted" Tiki's brave alt. But anyway, ending on a positive note, at least her art is FIRE so yeah... It could have been WAY worse if it had been bad (specially if it was a loli art, then the fandom would've been burning on rage right now). 

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I find it a shame that Seliph cosplays as Sigurd rather than either one of his actual dads. The forging bonds even have Seliph says how strongly he feels about all Shanan has done for him. Seliph emulating Shanan would have been cute, and the Isaanian outfit would have been more interesting than a Sigurd outfit. They could have given Seliph's weird peacock swordmaster outfit from Awakening another try. 

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5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I find it a shame that Seliph cosplays as Sigurd rather than either one of his actual dads.

I think it's harsh to say Sigurd isn't his dad at all, but you do make a good point that there are other inspirations he could have had (even if his kit remained L!Sigurd-lite as it is currently, I don't think that would have changed outside of maybe the +1 Mov being tied to a custom Astra special).

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2 hours ago, Rinco said:

Now that the CYL units are out for a while, what do you guys think about them? I'm still holding my free pick for a while and for now I'm between Tiki and Byleth, but I haven't played with either one yet.

Going off of their colors, Tiki will be easiest to get in the future and Byleth is the hardest to get of the four, just in case you're thinking of getting them from future banners. Tiki's better off from a meta sense too, due to have DCD and a prf B Skill. Gameplay-wise I think Tiki may be easier to use too since she's a good tank, but if you're an offensive player you'll obviously want Byleth instead.

But please wait for someone with more experience with the functional side of the game though 🙂

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3 hours ago, Rinco said:

Now that the CYL units are out for a while, what do you guys think about them? I'm still holding my free pick for a while and for now I'm between Tiki and Byleth, but I haven't played with either one yet.

Chrom is easily the most versatile of the four, excelling in both mobility and mobility support due to having one of the best Assist skills in the game. Having access to Canto is also a pretty notable advantage over his Legendary and Duo versions, though he is obviously hindered by his melee range and his vulnerability to map terrain.

Tiki is both a wall and a wall breaker. Notably, Tiki can cleanly kill Fallen Edelgard on either phase with both units running their most typical sets. She can also kill Duo Chrom on the counterattack, but the margins are extremely narrow.

I haven't used Byleth yet, but I've played against one in the Arena. She's really scary as a wall breaker since it's really hard to kill her on the counterattack if you let her initiate combat (or if she activates Preempt on you). But she's hilariously squishy when attacked by a melee unit. Preempt makes her actually viable as a ranged Vantage tank, though you need to be absolutely sure Preempt will actually activate. I've seen an increase in the use of AR-D Atk/Spd in Vault of Heaven, and Sweep and Hardy Bearing (Legendary Lilina) are also not uncommon in general.

I haven't used or seen Seliph used yet, but I don't really see him bringing anything substantially new to the table. He's a fast Legendary Sigurd with Null Follow-Up and Canto built in. This gives him better combat performance than Sigurd, but comes at the cost of losing SIgurd's mobility support utility, which is a pretty major loss.

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