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ciphertul

How would you like to see reclassing handled in the next main line game?

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Reclassing seems to be staying as a staple of the series, however it has been done in a couple different ways. SD/NM allowed free reclassing but had a hard limit on how many of each class you could have. Awakening make you use an item to reclass but reset your level to 1. Fates also need an item with your level carried over between classes. Lastly Houses made you use an item and have met certain other requirements but you could freely reclass between any unlocked classes. So what would you like to see for the future of reclassing.

For me, I lean Awakening as I’m the type to over grind in FE. Personally I’m not a big fan of reclassing and I think it should be limited more. 2-3 class lines per unit to help keep individuality.  

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I'm hoping that they'll continue experimenting and iterating, because I don't feel that any system they've had so far has been quite right. The Fates system is my least favourite so far, but I think that might be more to do with its Supports system than directly with its reclassing system. I found that grinding up supports to unlock reclass options was just a lot of tedious busywork. Though I do realise that a lot of people would probably level the same criticism at Three Houses, which I like much better. I just personally find the busywork in Three Houses less annoying than the busywork in Fates.

My own personal wishlist for a reclassing system:

  • No busywork. Don't make me grind up supports or weapon ranks just to be able to go into the class line I want.
  • Everyone can be any class. If I want to run Orochi as a Blacksmith or Raphael as a Dark Mage, then let me.
  • Different units must feel distinct. In more ways than just their stats.
  • Limitations on powerful classes. No more "oops, all wyverns" runs, please. (This is the lowest priority for me, since it's easy to self-regulate.)

I'm not sure what the best way to do this would be. My initial thought would be to have Fates/Awakening class sets, but then also include (limited availability) items that let a unit reclass outside of their sets. Maybe they could bring back and repurpose old promotion items? So, an Orion's Bolt would let you add Archer to your class set, an Elyssian Whip would let you add Pegasus Knight, and so on?

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Just do the Fates thing again, but here are a few suggestions I'd make to reduce tedium:

1. On promotion, gain enough weapon experience in all weapon types to go from E to D rank.

2. Allow freely reclassing between unlocked classes. If you've used a partner seal, you can freely switch between your base class and your partner's base class. If you've used a heart seal, add your alternate class to the pool. This is an idea I'm actually very uncertain about, because it does take away a lot of resource management and that could result in a sloppier experience overall. You might have a cheaper (but not free) "Return Seal" to go back to classes you've unlocked, or you could just keep seals exactly as they were in Fates.

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You missed Echoes' system, which was simply providing FreeLC pitchforks to a select few units of the player's choice.

Anyway, I enjoyed the Fates' system, of friendship/marriage-based reclasses. Then again, I also liked Three Houses' system, where you learn the skills before entering the class.I would be happy with either system making a comeback. 

One new system that could be cool to see, though, is story-linked reclasses. Thracia 776 kind of did this with Lara, who could become a Dancer via a specific conversation. How about a Soldier who goes Cavalier by visiting the "Stables" on one map? Or a Cleric who takes a dark turn into Shaman, if her boyfriend dies? These can feel more natural with the story, but it's also harder to telegraph them as options for the player.

2 hours ago, lenticular said:

Limitations on powerful classes. No more "oops, all wyverns" runs, please. (This is the lowest priority for me, since it's easy to self-regulate.)

Maybe return to GBA-style promotion-specific items, except now they work for reclassing as well? Like, you can use an Elysian Whip to promote your Pegasus Knight into Falcon Knight... or to reclass your Paladin into Wyvern Lord. That way, the availability of certain classes will be "gatekept" by how many of each item is available to the player.

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how i'd like to see reclassing?

absent

 

more on topic, i'm honestly fine with whatever they come up with, as i already know i wouldn't make use of it anyway (unless i notice the game's difficulty is already in the trash can)

Edited by Yexin

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Definitely the Fates system. It's a good compromise between making characters flexible and making them distinct.

 

Oh, and don't give anyone a mounted or flying class if they can't keep their outfit in that class. That shit just looks sloppy.

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Fates and 3H definitely had better systems than SD or Awakening, but I'd also like to see iterations on the idea. I definitely think @AnonymousSpeed's suggestions would be a clear improvement on Fates's system for instance.

SD's system is very free but kinda boring. I like how both Fates and 3H made me work to get into classes instead of just total freeform. I don't have a strong opinion on what form that work takes.

Awakening's system is my least favourite because it turned level into a total nonsense stat. Level should be a stat which governs how easy it is to gain your next levelup (that is to say, a Level 9 unit should require more work to gain a level than a Level 3 one), since this incentivizes spreading out exp and does so in an easy-to-understand manner. In Awakening the strange mechanic of changing classes setting your level to 1 meant the game had to keep track of some weird "internal level" stat... but not tell you it. I didn't like this at all. 3H (and Genealogy, of all things) did this best; have level be a character statistic and not a class one, which is not affected by reclassing.

I'm generally not a huge fan of tying reclasses to limited items, because it can be quite limiting if you want to do a lot of reclassing, for not much purpose. Maybe I want to try all of Paladin Jakob, Archer Mozu, and Sky Knight Selena on a given run and I don't see why I should be forced to choose.

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1 hour ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Definitely the Fates system. It's a good compromise between making characters flexible and making them distinct.

Yeah, this. Three Houses has my least favorite reclassing system because everyone just feels so samey. Not to say Fates' system couldn't somehow be improved, but it's the best version yet.

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I liked Fates' reclassing system. Like if you were besties/married to someone else, you could gain access to their class. And other than that, everyone had like their own specific reclass that just felt like it fit for them for some reason.

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3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

You missed Echoes' system, which was simply providing FreeLC pitchforks to a select few units of the player's choice.

I didn't miss it, I just didn't count it, I don't think anyone wants a hard limit of 4 reclasses total per playthru.

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I think I would rather see something more like Fates' than Three Houses (I've not yet played Fates, but the system looks interesting) but if they were to keep the TH-style class system, I think I'd want changes such as...

  • Class EXP is gained based on deployment, not gained through individual rounds of combat; that way progression is more linear, grinding still works and the system doesn't reward "sandbagging", as it were.
  • Weapons locked to classes and different types of shields; Knights, for example, could have access to heavy but high defense shields while something like a Pegasus Knight might only be able to use smaller, weaker ones.
  • More skills granted by the class, maybe? IIRC in TH classes can only have up to two, but I think it could be interesting if they had more of a say of how a unit can fit its role.

I really do need to try Fates at some point.

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4 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I definitely think @AnonymousSpeed's suggestions would be a clear improvement on Fates's system for instance.

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4 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Maybe I want to try all of Paladin Jakob, Archer Mozu, and Sky Knight Selena on a given run and I don't see why I should be forced to choose.

Fates is maybe a little more restrictive that I'd like, especially in the early-game where your runs are going to be more similar anyway, but I do think some degree of opportunity cost is necessary to keep the reclassing system interesting.

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

One new system that could be cool to see, though, is story-linked reclasses. Thracia 776 kind of did this with Lara, who could become a Dancer via a specific conversation. How about a Soldier who goes Cavalier by visiting the "Stables" on one map? Or a Cleric who takes a dark turn into Shaman, if her boyfriend dies? These can feel more natural with the story, but it's also harder to telegraph them as options for the player.

It'd make a lot more sense for a traditional RPG, one with a cast of four to ten characters, than for Fire Emblem and it's average of 40 or so.

9 minutes ago, Benice said:

I really do need to try Fates at some point.

Do it. It's good.

2 hours ago, ciphertul said:

I didn't miss it, I just didn't count it, I don't think anyone wants a hard limit of 4 reclasses total per playthru.

Oh yeah, Echoes.

If we're talking about reclassing in Echoes, I think it's fair to consider villagers an example of it. I actually quite like the villager mechanic, and having the pitchfork in limited supply isn't a terrible idea either. It's not the most interesting system by a long-shot, but it has a kind of endearing simplicity to it.

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2 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

If we're talking about reclassing in Echoes, I think it's fair to consider villagers an example of it. I actually quite like the villager mechanic, and having the pitchfork in limited supply isn't a terrible idea either. It's not the most interesting system by a long-shot, but it has a kind of endearing simplicity to it.

Each to their own on that one, for Villager I count it as just a branching promotion since only the dread fighter loop can make use of it.

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A mix of Awakening's, Fates' and 3H's styles.

Awakening: two reclassing options attached to every character, for personality/flavor (only one like in Fates is too little imo)

Fates: plus one (or 2, but that would depend on in-game S-supports coming back and implementing the 'S by another name except you can have one plus a S' A+ levels again, which i found somewhat disappointing in Fates) obtained by supporting another character, for customization

3H: free reclassing between unlocked classes, but to unlock one you have to do some preparation that results in the character getting some level of proficiency in their chosen new path. (Having some sort of base betwen chapters is probably here to stay, so it could be done there by assigning them some task that will get them to at least D; for support-unlocked classes, their buddy would have to be assigned to it too but it would progress faster, like in the 3Hopes training grounds.)

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Preferrably none, except focus on branched promotions. I'll take Sacred Stones as example. Each character starts stuck in a base class, but on promotion there's a choice on what new class you want. Sacred Stones gave 2 options, but I'm thinking more on the line of 4 or 5 choices. That with multiple promotions sounds like a great system to me. Knowing the class paths could maybe still get you to the oops-all-wyverns path eventually if you want, allowing for plenty of stuff to try.

But if I must choose, why not get some inspiration from Dungeons and Dragons. Reclass sometimes based on stats (example, need 20 speed to become a swordmaster) but otherwise mostly free. The game counts your total level seperate from your class levels (total level counts for experience gains, class level dictates what your skills are). I guess Fates comes closest to this.

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Fates-style is the best way so far IMO. It limits the units and what they can turn into, but it also provides a lot of flexibility as well. It's a good balance between the freedom of Three Houses and Awakening, and the rigid path of most pre-Awakening games. 

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1. give options, but limit it to family line of class. and switching class should not be like changing clothes, there should be a price or requirement. for example, if someone already promoted into paladin from cavalier, dont make the equivalent class to paladin also available for free.

2. or theres already a "fixed" path promotion for each character without the need for big price/requirement, but going into the branch promotion require Seals-like item which is a rare item, even then its still within acceptable class family

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Fates sytem but with them SD weapon ranks, and paralogues may lead to unique character classes.

Skills can be acquired through items, but when used they are permanently gone.

A character may teach 1x skill to another character once per campaign, but only one time and that taught character can then not teach that skill again.

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The best reclass system so far was in Three Houses, well implemented into the story and required work and care. My favorite one is from Fates, in particular Conquest since the other two are less refined, as it strikes a good balance between grind and reward without it being too free, giving most of your units a niche (I obviously don't count DLC, logbook and all the additional stuff that makes it much worse). Still, I wouldn't want either in a new entry, as in the first place I don't think it should be a mainstay and more a welcome feature that pops up from time to time when it can be well implemented into the story and gameplay.

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I'd like promotion to function like in the Tellius series where you promote automatically at level 20 and all classes have a singular promotion. However, alternate promotions can be accessed through rare special items. eg. Mage has Sage as its promotion, but can access Mage Knight through an item. 

Also, if a unit gains any new weapons from their promotion, the weapon rank for that new weapon starts off at C. I never really considered it fair for a unit to start off at E rank with a new weapon. It discourages players from using that weapon.

Edited by The PaperCrafter

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So, how do we think reclassing will be handled with Engage's oddball mechanics? Maybe learnable classes will be related to bond level with the ring lords? (IE: Sigurd could give Paladin, Marth could give Hero, Ike could give Warrior, etc.)

Edited by Fabulously Olivier

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Well, first and foremost: No gender-locked classes lmfao. We have a confirmed female Brawler (War Cleric ?), so I'm hoping we'll see another male Pegasus Knight. Plus, Corrin's appearance kinda gives me a little hope gender-locks will be gone lol.

Anyways, as mentioned above, Fates had my favorite class system because I enjoyed being able to trade around classes via supports. Like it had so much flexibility and so many possibilities.

I know 3H's class system gets a lot of shit, but I honestly didn't mind the wide open-class system. It was a lot of fun customizing units to whatever you wanted them to be and allowed for a lot of replay value. However, I did slightly prefer 3Hopes class system a little more because each class was given a designated promotion, wheres in 3H, any class would be open to them in the next tier given they meet the appropriate weapon rank requirements. I do also prefer classes being weapon-locked so each class retained their uniqueness (though having bow-pegasi was super cool).

Honestly though, I'm kind of predicting Engage will have a class system more akin to Awakening without the infinite levels. It already seems as if each unit will join with a base class already given to them, but I don't believe they'll only have their base class in their kit. I feel like each character will have about 3 or so classes in their kit they can switch between like Awakening.

It also is likely an Echoes-esque class system could return, where it's multi-tiered and reclassing could be through an exclusive/limited item. I'd enjoy a class system like Echoes as long as each reclass is available for all units instead of male-only and female-only.

I am hoping for a more streamlined tiered promotion system, kind of like 3Hopes or Echoes, and I'm kinda hoping for 3-tiered class system in general.

Also, unpopular opinion: Did anyone else like overclasses in Echoes? Cause I did and I would actually like to see something like overclasses to return LOL.

Edited by LJ_Reflet

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